Hmmm....
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_16_A13_pncase263416
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
Hmmm....
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_16_A13_pncase263416
Back when I was a tenant, if my rent was even FIVE days late, I got a call from the landlord.
Promptly.
Must be different when the County Goobermint is the landlord.
Let's see if we can piece this puzzle together:
A. The County Fairgrounds Authority kicks out the highest and longest-tenured paying tenant, Bell's Amusement Park, because they don't have a "viable" business plan.
B. The Co. Fairgrounds Authority keeps Murphy Bros./Big Splash, that "forgot" to pay their 2007 rent for the past eight months.
C. The County Fairgrounds Authority forgets to cash their rent check from 2006, that sort of enhances Murphy's a very favorable "cash-flow" position.
D. And, the County Fairground Authority gives Murphy a 10 year No-Bid contract to run the Tulsa State Fair Midway.
E. Oh, and it lets them ignore a State Order to replace rotten wooden support beams on their water slides.
Thanks for checking on County business, Mr. Small-ego.
And, we handed these Yahoos another 6/10 Sales Tax for the next 13 years??
A BILLION New Tax dollars being managed by the County Goobermint?
[:O]
Contributions to make this all stop can be made here:
http://www.karenkeith.org/contribute.php
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
Hmmm....
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080628_16_A13_pncase263416
Back when I was a tenant, if my rent was even FIVE days late, I got a call from the landlord. Promptly.
Must be different when the County Goobermint is the landlord.
Let's see if we can piece this puzzle together:
A. Kick out the highest paying tenant Bell's Amusement Park because they don't have a "viable" business plan.
B. Keep Murphy Bros./Big Splash that "forgot" to pay their 2007 rent for the past eight months.
C. Forget to cash their rent check from 2006 that sort of gives Murphy a favorable "cash-flow" incentive.
D. And, give Murphy a 10 year No-Bid contract to run the Tulsa State Fair Midway.
E. Oh, and let them ignore a State Order to replace rotten wooden support beams on their water slides.
Thanks for checking on County business, Mr. Small-ego.
Ahem, that's Commissioner Small I.Q.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
Contributions to make this all stop can be made here:
http://www.karenkeith.org/contribute.php
I think while Karen seems to be a nice person, I don't think that being a TV newsperson necessarily qualifies her.
It does make her a very good communicator.
That is why former Mayor Major MisFortunate hired her, apparently.
It also shows you that:
A) Bill LaFortune was a RINO, what with hiring Democrats.
B) LaFortunate was Dumber than a dirt-clod by positioning a future Democrat adversary in local government.
You don't see Gov. Brad Henry appointing ANY Republicans, do you?
C) Karen's husband is a local heriditary scion of the legal Paladin's who represent the moneyed establishment:
Pat Malloy III.
Assigned to act as Bankruptcy Trustee for:
GREAT PLAINS AIRLINES.
See..... Oh, NOTHING to see here; just MOVE ON.
His grandfather was a local rainmaker attorney, about on par with the reputed Prince of Darkness Charles Norman, and Charles Gotwals.
Remember, Ms. "Keith" helped debate and agitate for the Vision 2025 13-year new County Sales tax.
Shows she probably doesn't have a ounce of conscience, being quite happy to take another 6/10 cent sales tax from Tulsa's poorest and neediest.
Maybe she can comp them a ticket at the new BOK Arena to make amends.
They sure can't EVER afford a ticket there.
I'm sure they are just happy to be able to GIVE more to the local ruling Oligarch Families.
Keith's candidacy is her reward from the local power establishment for prior services rendered.
They want another County sales tax, and they've used up Commissioner Randi Miller.
Miller has no more credibility, and is now instantly disposable from their viewpoint.
Sorry, Randy: You're no longer useful to them.
Good-bye.
It's starting to happen with Ms. Kitty Taylor, too.
$7,000,000 paid to BOK when it's not owed by the City until Mrs. Kitty decides just last week to add the City of Tulsa as a Defendant to the lawsuit. How devious!
$80 million for a new city hall w/ 30-year back-loaded, financing.
Similar 30-year financing for the proposed $60 million minor league ball park downtown.
Taylor's political capital is being rapidly depreciated to ingratiate herself with the local ruling Power Establishment to attain higher office:
U.S. Congresswoman Kitty.
Governor Kitty.
Sinator Kitty.
Poor Kitty.
Don't you know they are NEVER happy?
They have one simple paradigm:
They NEED to FEED their GREED.
And, they are ALWAYS hungry.
Doesn't she know when her CREDIBILITY is used up, she'll be tossed aside like last week's Lorton's World newspaper?
Poor, poor Kitty.
Poor thing.
[V]
You're nuts.
quote:
Murphy said Friday that Big Splash had yet to pay its 2007 rent for two reasons: The park wanted to discuss the possibility of being compensated for revenue that she contends was lost when its parking lot was torn up last year as part of an overall reconstruction project at the fairgrounds; and the park was waiting to be paid about $120,000 from a sponsorship deal with Coca-Cola.
1. You can not withhold payment on a lease because of another dispute AND the water park will bennefit from the construction work. Essentially, the County was redoing the water park's parking lot.
2. "We don't have the money to pay our rent."
Wasn't the fear of that the
reason excuse used to kick out Bell's? Now Big Splash blatantly comes out and says they don't have the cash to pay rent. Which is worse, fear of a business plan that might someday lead to not being able to pay rent... or coming out and saying you can't pay rent?
- - - -
CLEARLY favorable treatment of one County tenant over another. Does anyone even argue otherwise?
Get rid of Big Splash. It is an embarrasment to the city, not to mention a run down safety hazard death trap.
FB, you owe it to yourself to get to know Karen Keith a little better. I think she will bring some integrity back to the County Commission.
FWIW, she refused to accept contributions from the Murphy's.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
FB, you owe it to yourself to get to know Karen Keith a little better. I think she will bring some integrity back to the County Commission.
FWIW, she refused to accept contributions from the Murphy's.
Murphy's afraid their prize horse won't win this one?
quote:
Originally posted by swake
Contributions to make this all stop can be made here:
http://www.karenkeith.org/contribute.php
Contributions to her are contributions to the status quo. Karen Keith and Randi Miller are different sides of the same coin. BTW, there's lots of fluff and self aggrandizing on her website, but nothing about where she stands on the issues or what she will do as a County Commissioner. The fact that she asks for a minimum contribution of $100 from contributors tells me all I need to know about who she will be representing if elected.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
FB, you owe it to yourself to get to know Karen Keith a little better. I think she will bring some integrity back to the County Commission.
FWIW, she refused to accept contributions from the Murphy's.
BFD. She's not stupid enough to take contributions from the Murphys(which would be political suicide in this race). No way in Hell will I vote for Karen Keith.
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaSooner
You're nuts.
Thanks for the feedback.
Can you be a little more specific?
Thanks again.
[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
FB, you owe it to yourself to get to know Karen Keith a little better. I think she will bring some integrity back to the County Commission.
FWIW, she refused to accept contributions from the Murphy's.
I know that she was a paid promoter on the taxpayer's payroll agitating for a new, 13-year 6/10 sales tax:
Vision 2025.
A new regressive sales tax that hits the poor and middle-class the hardest.
A new tax intended to line the pockets of the local ruling Oligarchy Families:
Rooney and Flint (Tulsa Vision Builders), and Lorton and Kaiser (50/50 split on the No-Bid Revenue Bonds). $100,000,000's and $100,000,000's in yummy new steaming hot TAX gravy.
If it comes right down to it, in a race between Miller and Keith, I'd probably vote for Miller, since she's all used up politically anyway, and therefore poses less future risk to the body politic.
People know when Randy Miller opens her mouth, that a new tax is coming.
Karen Keith is more dangerous.
[8]
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaSooner
You're nuts.
Thanks for the feedback.
Can you be a little more specific?
Thanks again.
[;)]
Specifically, your turning a Big Splash failure to pay rent thread into a rant against the Mayor for starters.
[:)]
These county commissioners and the fair board must be the worst business people in the, well, in the county. [}:)]
And to think, they said they could safely shepherd our $283mm for new river projects.
They've gotten rid of one steady revenue stream, they are getting rid of another, and don't require the third to pay their rent in a timely manner.
All I know is the baby toys look like the same ones from when I was a kid...I don't think my kids will EVER go there!
I never went again after I was 13 and saw a piece of poo slowly circling around a drain in the wave pool.
I.Was.Done.[xx(]
Eeww! Are you sure it wasn't a Baby Ruth?
(http://sports.espn.go.com/media/pg2/2002/0726/photo/pool.jpg)
Big Splash opened the summer I graduated from high school. I had friends who worked there, but I've still never even been inside the gates.
I'm POSITIVE. It had that special shape. LOL!
The worm turns. News on 6 reports that Smaligo returned a $5000 campaign contribution from the Murphy's. The county commission is claiming they had no idea rent had not been paid for 2007 and that the 2006 check had not been deposited.
I believe this points at Rick Bjorklund not following up, he declined an interview with 6.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by swake
Contributions to make this all stop can be made here:
http://www.karenkeith.org/contribute.php
Contributions to her are contributions to the status quo. Karen Keith and Randi Miller are different sides of the same coin. BTW, there's lots of fluff and self aggrandizing on her website, but nothing about where she stands on the issues or what she will do as a County Commissioner. The fact that she asks for a minimum contribution of $100 from contributors tells me all I need to know about who she will be representing if elected.
Ditto.
FB.....wrong choice of word but I get your drift.
I recall batting cages, golf range, and go carts there before everyone whimpped out.
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
FB.....wrong choice of word but I get your drift.
I recall batting cages, golf range, and go carts there before everyone whimpped out.
Someone's "vision" at the Fairgrounds has basically turned the place into one gigantic Horse Barn.
Probably Steven Alter/Matrix Architects and the their favored construction company, along with former Commissioner Dirty Bob Dick, B4 he retired.
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
FB.....wrong choice of word but I get your drift.
I recall batting cages, golf range, and go carts there before everyone whimpped out.
Someone's "vision" at the Fairgrounds has basically turned the place into one gigantic Horse Barn.
Probably Steven Alter/Matrix Architects and the their favored construction company, along with former Commissioner Dirty Bob Dick, B4 he retired.
Weren't we also warned in advance about Rick Bjorklund?
BIG SPLASH SUCKS!
Opinions are of course welcome, but let's work on keeping them a little more constructive than this. This is not just a problem with this post, this thread has from time to time flirted with the line. Please keep it substantive.
- Moderator
Is it time for Mr. Bjorklund to visit Monster.com?
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080701_16_A1_hThere598589
Not exactly scholarly, but interesting op-ed:
http://bubbaworld.com/unfairgrounds.html
Several other articles I've read suggest Bjorklund was the ram-rod behind ousting Bell's and awarding the ten year no-bid contract of the Murphy's. Now he's allowed, essentially, 18 months of free rent to Big Splash. IOW, the Fairgrounds had collected zero revenue from the Bell's site or Big Splash site since mid 2006.
This guy needs to go.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Not exactly scholarly, but interesting op-ed:
http://bubbaworld.com/unfairgrounds.html
Several other articles I've read suggest Bjorklund was the ram-rod behind ousting Bell's and awarding the ten year no-bid contract of the Murphy's. Now he's allowed, essentially, 18 months of free rent to Big Splash. IOW, the Fairgrounds had collected zero revenue from the Bell's site or Big Splash site since mid 2006.
This guy needs to go.
+1
That should include the three stooges currently serving as County Commissioners, too.
Expo Square leader fired
An accounting scandal also nets two-week suspension for comptroller.
The Tulsa County Public Facilities Authority, which oversees operations at the fairgrounds, voted unanimously to fire Expo Square President Rick Bjorklund.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080701_1__Anacc87371
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080701_1__Anacc87371
My mouth is still officially dropped.
I'm stunned.
quote:
Originally posted by dsjeffries
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080701_1__Anacc87371
My mouth is still officially dropped.
I'm stunned.
Wonder if there are any other Big Splash/Murphy Bros. payments to the Fairgrounds that have either never been paid, or the checks never cashed???
Like poo circling the pool drain...but much too late...the pool water is still tainted.[xx(]
IMO, Mr. Bjorklund is the fall guy. He's not been there long enough to have caused all this. He's been following directions since he arrived, including on the Bell's deal. He was fired from up north because he wouldn't participate in this kind of stuff. Found himself in the midst of the Bell's deal upon arrival and carried the water.
The Comptroller is the guy who should've known and pointed it out, if even to Bjorklund. That's what Comptrollers do. The guy must be within a year or two of retirement for them to pad him with two weeks time off.
Firing the new guy is supposed to make it all better, yet the problem remains. But, things will likely change a lot in November.
The whole Expo Square/County Commission/Big Splash/Murphy Family controversy now coming to light is just a continuation of good old boy Oklahoma government business. For some reason, I see shades of the big OK county commission scandals of the 1970s/1980s.
Local papers and media need to lock into this, investigate, and report to we taxpayers what is really going on here.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
IMO, Mr. Bjorklund is the fall guy. He's not been there long enough to have caused all this. He's been following directions since he arrived, including on the Bell's deal. He was fired from up north because he wouldn't participate in this kind of stuff. Found himself in the midst of the Bell's deal upon arrival and carried the water.
The Comptroller is the guy who should've known and pointed it out, if even to Bjorklund. That's what Comptrollers do. The guy must be within a year or two of retirement for them to pad him with two weeks time off.
Firing the new guy is supposed to make it all better, yet the problem remains. But, things will likely change a lot in November.
If he didn't know money wasn't in the bank from Murphy's for the last year and a half and he's essentially the CEO, that's gross dereliction of duty. This is a public institution he is running. He's old enough and experienced enough in the public building business to know this doesn't cut it.
They guy has worked for Wembley Stadium, Three Rivers, and the Wisconsin State Fair. He's been around the block and his career spiraled downhill to this three ring circus in Tulsa.
Hopefully this is just the tip of the iceberg in cleaning up county governement, but I'm not buying that he was just a poor pawn in all this. He was somewhere between incompetent and a protector of long-time acquantances, the Murphys.
I'm assuming his replacement Mark Andrus is Major Mark Andrus, formerly of TPD? That would be some great integrity at the helm. Glad they moved swiftly and glad they picked someone who has a trustworthy image, at least.
Yes. The same guy.
He was hired six weeks ago. His title was Chief Operating Officer.
He is from the outside and had a spectacular 34 year career with the Tulsa Police Department.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Yes. The same guy.
He was hired six weeks ago. His title was Chief Operating Officer.
He is from the outside and had a spectacular 34 year career with the Tulsa Police Department.
A Wise Man in the Know once told me:
"Friendly Bear, EVERY deal at the County is a BENT deal".
I have to agree with AA. This stink goes farther than the guy fired. He was the fall guy holding checks or deferring payment while the Murphy's waited for a CocaCola sponsorship to materialize. That means BigSplash didn't have the rent money. They didn't make repairs for the same reason. Now that Coke smells dirty water they aren't going to pony up.
Result is eminent bankruptcy. Summer passes were $50 and they would have to have sold 4000 just to pay back rent. Anyone know how many they sold this year?
"See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil", the three county commissioners, should have known, and probably did know about this. Now they meet in private and refuse to divulge details?
This is what political scandal is all about and its not going to go away easily.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I have to agree with AA. This stink goes farther than the guy fired. He was the fall guy holding checks or deferring payment while the Murphy's waited for a CocaCola sponsorship to materialize. That means BigSplash didn't have the rent money. They didn't make repairs for the same reason. Now that Coke smells dirty water they aren't going to pony up.
Result is eminent bankruptcy. Summer passes were $50 and they would have to have sold 4000 just to pay back rent. Anyone know how many they sold this year?
"See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil", the three county commissioners, should have known, and probably did know about this. Now they meet in private and refuse to divulge details?
This is what political scandal is all about and its not going to go away easily.
I would not assume that they can't pay the rent. Why would you pay when a few $5,000 campaign "contributions" can save you a couple of hundred grant in rent and shut down your main competition.
Those "contributions" weren't made to the CEO of Expo Square either.
Can we fire Ms Miller this quick too?
Its too bad we couldnt have both Karen Keith and Sally Bell come November...
quote:
Originally posted by patric
Its too bad we couldnt have both Karen Keith and Sally Bell come November...
+1
At least according to Smaligo when Ch. 6 talked to him, the commissioners had no idea of the rent arrearage until last week. It was apparently up to Bjorklund to keep them advised of such goings on and, according to the same report, Bjorklund did not have the authority to waive rent pending the Coke sponsorship.
Bjorklund may not have been corrupt, but certainly negligent and apparently incompetent. He was a bureaucrat, so that's par for the course, right? [;)]
This does shine a light though that our county commission is deft at best in handling the citizen's business, or toward a much deeper pattern of corruption. This is a full-time job, not part-time like the city council. So, how is it that not one member of the comm. was not even remotely aware that Big Splash was in arrears and there was $60+K missing from cash-on hand vs. reciepts?
I don't
know there was anything sinister here, but basing my opinion on Smaligo's comments, there's obviously a lax system of accountability between the public operating authority and the bureaucracy charged with day-to-day operations. There is certainly much fodder to support claims of corruption that go deeper than $5000 campaign contributions.
I'm increasingly un-impressed with Perry and Smaligo. Miller? She's been a train wreck. Maybe it's my general cynicism toward our county government or paranoia, but, I think Miller knows all the skeletons of county politics and Smaligo and Perry are just un-witting dupes who are told: "Everything is just fine! Nothing to see here! Now, go shake down an asphalt contractor or something!".
There's still a mystery much deeper than the focus at the fairgrounds shifting to horses from baseball and family amusement.
Our county commission would do well to sit down with the media and the public to set the record straight as to exactly what is going on instead of acting like a bunch of insular jerks when they are challenged.
The county can't manage a simple $130,000 per year renter without major SNAFUS. Is it any wonder more than half of Tulsa County said "no way" to a $283mm slush fund to be managed by this tight little clan?
And Randi Miller can't return the Murphy's $5000 because she spent it? It's a campaign year, she should be flush right now. Sounds like her backers are scurrying like cock roaches.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by patric
Its too bad we couldnt have both Karen Keith and Sally Bell come November...
+1
At least according to Smaligo when Ch. 6 talked to him, the commissioners had no idea of the rent arrearage until last week. It was apparently up to Bjorklund to keep them advised of such goings on and, according to the same report, Bjorklund did not have the authority to waive rent pending the Coke sponsorship.
Bjorklund may not have been corrupt, but certainly negligent and apparently incompetent. He was a bureaucrat, so that's par for the course, right? [;)]
This does shine a light though that our county commission is deft at best in handling the citizen's business, or toward a much deeper pattern of corruption. This is a full-time job, not part-time like the city council. So, how is it that not one member of the comm. was not even remotely aware that Big Splash was in arrears and there was $60+K missing from cash-on hand vs. reciepts?
I don't know there was anything sinister here, but basing my opinion on Smaligo's comments, there's obviously a lax system of accountability between the public operating authority and the bureaucracy charged with day-to-day operations. There is certainly much fodder to support claims of corruption that go deeper than $5000 campaign contributions.
I'm increasingly un-impressed with Perry and Smaligo. Miller? She's been a train wreck. Maybe it's my general cynicism toward our county government or paranoia, but, I think Miller knows all the skeletons of county politics and Smaligo and Perry are just un-witting dupes who are told: "Everything is just fine! Nothing to see here! Now, go shake down an asphalt contractor or something!".
There's still a mystery much deeper than the focus at the fairgrounds shifting to horses from baseball and family amusement.
Our county commission would do well to sit down with the media and the public to set the record straight as to exactly what is going on instead of acting like a bunch of insular jerks when they are challenged.
The county can't manage a simple $130,000 per year renter without major SNAFUS. Is it any wonder more than half of Tulsa County said "no way" to a $283mm slush fund to be managed by this tight little clan?
And Randi Miller can't return the Murphy's $5000 because she spent it? It's a campaign year, she should be flush right now. Sounds like her backers are scurrying like cock roaches.
And I damn sure didn't care how smug Small-IQ acted when he was being asked questions about the committee meeting. I think he knows he's lost some reputation points on this deal.
Smalligo and Perry are both career politicians. Considering they are both former state legislators, their incompetence is completely inexcusable. They need to be held accountable, too.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Can we fire Ms Miller this quick too?
July 29th.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Can we fire Ms Miller this quick too?
July 29th.
Thats my birthday, how fitting!
"Murphy ready to pay rent," 07/02/2008, Tulsa World, available at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080702_16_A7_spancl508812
Basically says:
- We never received the invoice
- It was a miscommunication about compensation on the pavement
- we'll pay but hope to get some sort of compensation for redoing our parking lot
- we couldn't pay until our coke deal went through
First of all, I don't care. We are 6 months PAST DUE and you are saying we have to wait LONGER for rent money because your revenue stream isn't good enough? And you represent this as a going concern better than Bell's? As George Thorogood said "that doesn't concern me as long as I get my rent money by next Friday."
Then with what has to be THE major expense for the park one would think something would be done on it. Even if an invoice was not sent, you'd think they'd contact the County and inquire lest they get evicted.
Third, "miscommunication" is a two way street. If the lessee miscommunicates for 6 months it's as much their fault as anyone else's. "We didn't pay because of a miscommunication." You thought maybe you didn't owe rent this year? Better yet:
quote:
Murphy reiterated that she had never discussed delaying her lease payment with the fair board or with former Expo Square President and CEO Rick Bjorklund.
So where the hell does the miscommunication come in if you NEVER COMMUNICATED?
And finally,
REVENUE WAS UP AT BIG SPLASH DURING PARKING LOT WORK. quote:
Although Murphy said Big Splash lost up to $250,000 in 2007 primarily because of the parking lot work, fair board records show that the park's revenues last year were higher than those of the year before.
She pulled the "we lost $250,000" out of her donkey. Totally made up, their revenues were UP, not down.
While we're at it, why was their a partial rent check last year? The ~ $70K uncashed check doesn't seem to fit in with the one year of rent at the end of the year scheme. Not too mention the amazing generosity of having rent due in it's entirety AT THE END of the year.
- - -
Assuming clean hands b y the county on this, here's what they should do:
#1 - don't "mail the invoice tomorrow" as indicated, you send someone from your office over there with the damn invoice. That's common sense when a customer uses BS excuses for not paying.
#2 - Do NOT reduce the rent or compensate in any way for the parking lot. Parking lots get redone at all businesses. Most would be happy to have their done for free. Furthermore, the evidence suggests it did not hinder their business at all. Then, contrary to insinuation about miscommunication - by her own admission it was never brought up. And even if it did hinder business (which it didn't) and they had talked about it (which they did not) - at this point your 6 months late... too damn bad.
#3 - Late fee. $130,000 at a standard late fee rate of 12% for 6 months is about $8,000. Enough money to put in a dog park at Expo Square. When I pay late, I pay fines.
#4 - when the contract is renegotiated rent is due monthly or at the end of the summer for the entire year (their prime revenue period). Paying yearly rent at the end of a period is essentially floating the Murphy's a zero interest loan for a year.
I remained skepitical of people telling me the Murphy's were shady dealers, but I am entirely convinced after reading that article. The excuses were BS. The "miscommunication" admittedly never happened. Either the Murphy's are shady or the county is grossly incompetent in this matter, or both.
[edit]fixed quotes[/edit]
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
"Murphy ready to pay rent," 07/02/2008, Tulsa World, available at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080702_16_A7_spancl508812
Basically says:
- We never received the invoice
- It was a miscommunication about compensation on the pavement
- we'll pay but hope to get some sort of compensation for redoing our parking lot
- we couldn't pay until our coke deal went through
First of all, I don't care. We are 6 months PAST DUE and you are saying we have to wait LONGER for rent money because your revenue stream isn't good enough? And you represent this as a going concern better than Bell's? As George Thorogood said "that doesn't concern me as long as I get my rent money by next Friday."
Then with what has to be THE major expense for the park one would think something would be done on it. Even if an invoice was not sent, you'd think they'd contact the County and inquire lest they get evicted.
Third, "miscommunication" is a two way street. If the lessee miscommunicates for 6 months it's as much their fault as anyone else's. "We didn't pay because of a miscommunication." You thought maybe you didn't owe rent this year? Better yet:
quote:
Murphy reiterated that she had never discussed delaying her lease payment with the fair board or with former Expo Square President and CEO Rick Bjorklund.
So where the hell does the miscommunication come in if you NEVER COMMUNICATED?
And finally, REVENUE WAS UP AT BIG SPLASH DURING PARKING LOT WORK.
quote:
Although Murphy said Big Splash lost up to $250,000 in 2007 primarily because of the parking lot work, fair board records show that the park's revenues last year were higher than those of the year before.
She pulled the "we lost $250,000" out of her donkey. Totally made up, their revenues were UP, not down.
While we're at it, why was their a partial rent check last year? The ~ $70K uncashed check doesn't seem to fit in with the one year of rent at the end of the year scheme. Not too mention the amazing generosity of having rent due in it's entirety AT THE END of the year.
- - -
Assuming clean hands b y the county on this, here's what they should do:
#1 - don't "mail the invoice tomorrow" as indicated, you send someone from your office over there with the damn invoice. That's common sense when a customer uses BS excuses for not paying.
#2 - Do NOT reduce the rent or compensate in any way for the parking lot. Parking lots get redone at all businesses. Most would be happy to have their done for free. Furthermore, the evidence suggests it did not hinder their business at all. Then, contrary to insinuation about miscommunication - by her own admission it was never brought up. And even if it did hinder business (which it didn't) and they had talked about it (which they did not) - at this point your 6 months late... too damn bad.
#3 - Late fee. $130,000 at a standard late fee rate of 12% for 6 months is about $8,000. Enough money to put in a dog park at Expo Square. When I pay late, I pay fines.
#4 - when the contract is renegotiated rent is due monthly or at the end of the summer for the entire year (their prime revenue period). Paying yearly rent at the end of a period is essentially floating the Murphy's a zero interest loan for a year.
I remained skepitical of people telling me the Murphy's were shady dealers, but I am entirely convinced after reading that article. The excuses were BS. The "miscommunication" admittedly never happened. Either the Murphy's are shady or the county is grossly incompetent in this matter, or both.
[edit]fixed quotes[/edit]
What do you expect from a family of Fair carnies?
And, we trusted the COUNTY Goobermint with a new 6/10th sales tax for Vision 2025, which will give them about $800 million in our tax money to play with for 13 years??
The Murphy's EIGHT month arrearage in their $130K in 2007 is peanuts compared to the oodles of money the county is handling for Vision 2025.
As Mr. Medlock says:
"Look at the pretty penny", while mean old Randi Miller takes the children's candy.
[:O]
Who gets an invoice for rent anyway? Your lease contract states how much it is and when it's due. You don't need an invoice...
Shenanigans.
If I remember correctly, this isn't the first time that Big Splash has been late/behind in rent payments. Didn't this same situation come up in the 80's or early 90's?
The Murphys are in breach of contract if they are late on rent for Big Splash, correct?
Why don't we just breach their 10 year sweetheart no-bid contract for the fair?
**** the Murphys, buncha slimy carnies and gypsies. Can't say our county commissioners are much better at this point.
FWIW to Bjorklund applogists, Bjorklund was essentially the property manager of the fairgrounds. Managers of 300 unit apartment complexes seem to figure out who hasn't paid their rent when it's five days past-due.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
The Murphys are in breach of contract if they are late on rent for Big Splash, correct?
Why don't we just breach their 10 year sweetheart no-bid contract for the fair?
**** the Murphys, buncha slimy carnies and gypsies. Can't say our county commissioners are much better at this point.
FWIW to Bjorklund applogists, Bjorklund was essentially the property manager of the fairgrounds. Managers of 300 unit apartment complexes seem to figure out who hasn't paid their rent when it's five days past-due.
Well said! Screw those slimy carny gypsies! Let's get somebody in there to provide quality and SAFE entertainment for everyone. They have had a free ride for far too long!
As a point of order... the gypsies are a culture (if not a race) of people known as the Roma. Calling carnies a bunch of gypsies is akin to saying "I got Jewed" or that you fixed something by "****** rigging it." Many people use the term in a derogatory sense and don't realize it is "racist." (Gypsies are a "race" like the Jews are, more of a cultural identity than a race.)
I'm not overly sensitive to such things, but as with my examples... some will view the gypsy comments as overt racism. Just a heads up.
But by all means, I agree with the sentiment as applied here.
[edit]I edited this and PM'd people so as not to distract from the thread, but now unedited as the thing comment s keep getting quoted![/edit]
quote:
Originally posted by breitee
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
The Murphys are in breach of contract if they are late on rent for Big Splash, correct?
Why don't we just breach their 10 year sweetheart no-bid contract for the fair?
**** the Murphys, buncha slimy carnies and gypsies. Can't say our county commissioners are much better at this point.
FWIW to Bjorklund applogists, Bjorklund was essentially the property manager of the fairgrounds. Managers of 300 unit apartment complexes seem to figure out who hasn't paid their rent when it's five days past-due.
Well said! Screw those slimy carny gypsies! Let's get somebody in there to provide quality and SAFE entertainment for everyone. They have had a free ride for far too long!
Thirded....
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
The Murphys are in breach of contract if they are late on rent for Big Splash, correct?
This is not neccesarily so.....CF? Don't you have the answer?
Wasn't it Hitler who also went after the gypsy's?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
As a point of order... the gypsies are a culture (if not a race) of people known as the Roma. Calling carnies a bunch of gypsies is akin to saying "I got Jewed" or that you fixed something by "****** rigging it." Many people use the term in a derogatory sense and don't realize it is "racist." (Gypsies are a "race" like the Jews are, more of a cultural identity than a race.)
I'm not overly sensitive to such things, but as with my examples... some will view the gypsy comments as overt racism. Just a heads up.
But by all means, I agree with the sentiment as applied here.
[edit]I edited this and PM'd people so as not to distract from the thread, but now unedited as the thing comment s keep getting quoted![/edit]
How odd....I like "christianing" down the price. Different strokes for different folks.....
Robby Bell is going to be on 1170 KFAQ this afternoon..should be an interesting listen...I wonder if Chris could post the audio link on here after its on the air as I will be stepping into a meeting soon...
Oh sweet Jesus.....not another stupid ad for CM.[:(!]
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
The Murphys are in breach of contract if they are late on rent for Big Splash, correct?
This is not neccesarily so.....CF? Don't you have the answer?
CF......answer the question.
Damn, why the spam fest all of a sudden? 5 posts in the same thread in 8 minutes?
I don't know if they are in breach, I have not seen the contract. I also do not know if the midway contract is in any way related to the Bell's contract. Or if Bell's as an entity is legally related to the midway business (I suspect now).
In general, failure to pay rent for 6 months would be viewed as a breach of contract. Res ipsa loquitur - the thing speaks for itself. But again, I have not read this contract.
- - -
Since you posted 5 times without giving an actual opinion, maybe you could grace us with your thoughts on the matter.
[edit]fixed typo[/edit]
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
Robby Bell is going to be on 1170 KFAQ this afternoon..should be an interesting listen...I wonder if Chris could post the audio link on here after its on the air as I will be stepping into a meeting soon...
The interview turned out really well, it sounds like Bell's is on the way to opening up again soon, somewhat to even my surprise.
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
Oh sweet Jesus.....not another stupid ad for CM.[:(!]
Are you always a moron? Or are you just one online?
quote:
Originally posted by Shavethewhales
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
Robby Bell is going to be on 1170 KFAQ this afternoon..should be an interesting listen...I wonder if Chris could post the audio link on here after its on the air as I will be stepping into a meeting soon...
The interview turned out really well, it sounds like Bell's is on the way to opening up again soon, somewhat to even my surprise.
That's good news. Where and how soon?
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by Shavethewhales
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
Robby Bell is going to be on 1170 KFAQ this afternoon..should be an interesting listen...I wonder if Chris could post the audio link on here after its on the air as I will be stepping into a meeting soon...
The interview turned out really well, it sounds like Bell's is on the way to opening up again soon, somewhat to even my surprise.
That's good news. Where and how soon?
It is on right now..1170 KFAQ AM
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
As a point of order... the gypsies are a culture (if not a race) of people known as the Roma. Calling carnies a bunch of gypsies is akin to saying "I got Jewed" or that you fixed something by "****** rigging it." Many people use the term in a derogatory sense and don't realize it is "racist." (Gypsies are a "race" like the Jews are, more of a cultural identity than a race.)
I'm not overly sensitive to such things, but as with my examples... some will view the gypsy comments as overt racism. Just a heads up.
But by all means, I agree with the sentiment as applied here.
[edit]I edited this and PM'd people so as not to distract from the thread, but now unedited as the thing comment s keep getting quoted![/edit]
Lighten up, Francis.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by Shavethewhales
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
Robby Bell is going to be on 1170 KFAQ this afternoon..should be an interesting listen...I wonder if Chris could post the audio link on here after its on the air as I will be stepping into a meeting soon...
The interview turned out really well, it sounds like Bell's is on the way to opening up again soon, somewhat to even my surprise.
That's good news. Where and how soon?
The timing of this mismanagement could NOT have happened at a worse time POLITICALLY for incumbent County Commissioner Randi Miller.
Miller is running for re-election, with the GOP primary in only 27 days.
Her long-standing close ties to the Murphy Family carnies, to the tune of at least $5K x 2 for election campaigns, soils her further.
Miller may also already have burned a few bridges with her GOP base with support for Vision 2025, the Kaiser River Tax, and a 3rd place showing in her race for Tulsa Mayor.
She claims she's a GOP'er, yet fights on behalf of the local ruling establishment for every possible new SALES tax on the local populace.
Perry and Small-ego likely won't pay any near term price, since it's another few years before they stand for re-election.
breitee: nothing personal, I didn't mean to yell at you. I simply didn't know this and was called out on it by someone when I said I was "gyped." Just giving you the PC heads up.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by Shavethewhales
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
Robby Bell is going to be on 1170 KFAQ this afternoon..should be an interesting listen...I wonder if Chris could post the audio link on here after its on the air as I will be stepping into a meeting soon...
The interview turned out really well, it sounds like Bell's is on the way to opening up again soon, somewhat to even my surprise.
That's good news. Where and how soon?
Due to the nature of the deal, he's not saying where yet, but he is saying that it will be soon. I think he may have said that he would make an announcement either in the fall or at the end of summer.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
breitee: nothing personal, I didn't mean to yell at you. I simply didn't know this and was called out on it by someone when I said I was "gyped." Just giving you the PC heads up.
No problem, CF. I just think that society as a whole is too P.C. and nobody has a sense of humor anymore. People get too agitated for no reason. I am of German decent yet it doesn't bother me in the least for someone to call me a Kraut or Nazi. Everyone just needs to "roll with the punches" and if you can't take it, too bad. Life is too short to worry about such trivial things.
If Sally Bell can't beat Randi in the primaries after this shenanegan, something is wrong. Not only would her beating Randi be signficant in change down at the county it would be a symbolic victory for the Bell family.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=496439
Sorry..here is the meat -
Public Works Director Charles Hardt said Gary Johnson, the general manager of Big Splash, presented two post-dated checks to pay the bill on Jan. 27. Hardt said Johnson was told the city does not accept post-dated checks.
The checks, dated March 31 and April 30, were returned by certified mail and on Monday, the city posted water shutoff notices at the park's office. Herrington said it makes little difference to the city when Big Splash decides to reconnect the water. The park is scheduled to open Memorial Day.
City records show the park has not been paid up on its utility bills in more than four years. The city said in December that the
park owed more than $95,000 on its bill. That amount was later lowered to $39,159 following a dispute over how the city calculated
sewer charges.
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=496439
Thanks, I could not remember what it was.
Also don't forget about this..
The Oklahoma Department of Labor says the Tulsa State Fair's carnival operator has invalid workers compensation coverage for its
employees, the Tulsa World learned Thursday.
But Greg Wallace, Murphy Enterprises vice president, took issue with the department's finding. "If you come by my office tomorrow, I'll show you the policy and the canceled checks" paid on the premiums, Wallace said.
Wallace said Murphy's workers compensation insurance carrier is a New Jersey company called AIG, "one of the largest in the
world."
It seems like they sure have alot of office troubles...
Selph said if Murphy Enterprises is found in default on its contracts, the fair board would consult with its attorney to see if the contracts can be canceled and new operators sought.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=485431
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
If Sally Bell can't beat Randi in the primaries after this shenanegan, something is wrong. Not only would her beating Randi be signficant in change down at the county it would be a symbolic victory for the Bell family.
No, it means that a lot of GOP voters will vote for an incumbent with name recognition.
Hate to be a pessimist, but I don't think Sally Bell has a prayer in the primary for those two big reasons alone.
Not to mention that Sally Bell doesn't seem to have any sort of discernible platform. Nor has Sally Bell done any campaigning that I can tell. You can't be just the anti-Randi and do nothing else and expect good results.
(A caveat: If Sally Bell does a blitz of campaigning within two weeks of the primary, she may have a chance.)
The general election, however, is another matter. I think Miller's doomed against a Democratic candidate with good name recognition, plus GOP voters who are dissatisfied with Miller.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
If Sally Bell can't beat Randi in the primaries after this shenanegan, something is wrong. Not only would her beating Randi be signficant in change down at the county it would be a symbolic victory for the Bell family.
No, it means that a lot of GOP voters will vote for an incumbent with name recognition.
Hate to be a pessimist, but I don't think Sally Bell has a prayer in the primary for those two big reasons alone.
Not to mention that Sally Bell doesn't seem to have any sort of discernible platform. Nor has Sally Bell done any campaigning that I can tell. You can't be just the anti-Randi and do nothing else and expect good results.
(A caveat: If Sally Bell does a blitz of campaigning within two weeks of the primary, she may have a chance.)
The general election, however, is another matter. I think Miller's doomed against a Democratic candidate with good name recognition, plus GOP voters who are dissatisfied with Miller.
RW, I think it was the 1986 Mayor's race where an incumbent (Terry Young) was beaten by a total unknown in the primary.
It's happened before here when people were fed up, but you are right, she's got name recognition and still might have some friends [8)]
I'd be surprised if the Bells will dump a lot of money into this campaign. They will need every penny they've got to get a new Bell's up and running.
I'm curious what everyone will do come November if it's Miller vs. Keith. Both supported the River Tax, people will have to eat their words and vote for someone who supported V-2025 and the river tax. I'm curious who Michael Bates would endorse considering his apparent lack of love for Randi.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
If Sally Bell can't beat Randi in the primaries after this shenanegan, something is wrong. Not only would her beating Randi be signficant in change down at the county it would be a symbolic victory for the Bell family.
No, it means that a lot of GOP voters will vote for an incumbent with name recognition.
Hate to be a pessimist, but I don't think Sally Bell has a prayer in the primary for those two big reasons alone.
Not to mention that Sally Bell doesn't seem to have any sort of discernible platform. Nor has Sally Bell done any campaigning that I can tell. You can't be just the anti-Randi and do nothing else and expect good results.
(A caveat: If Sally Bell does a blitz of campaigning within two weeks of the primary, she may have a chance.)
The general election, however, is another matter. I think Miller's doomed against a Democratic candidate with good name recognition, plus GOP voters who are dissatisfied with Miller.
RW, I think it was the 1986 Mayor's race where an incumbent (Terry Young) was beaten by a total unknown in the primary.
It's happened before here when people were fed up, but you are right, she's got name recognition and still might have some friends [8)]
I'd be surprised if the Bells will dump a lot of money into this campaign. They will need every penny they've got to get a new Bell's up and running.
I'm curious what everyone will do come November if it's Miller vs. Keith. Both supported the River Tax, people will have to eat their words and vote for someone who supported V-2025 and the river tax. I'm curious who Michael Bates would endorse considering his apparent lack of love for Randi.
If Michael Bates says that Randi Miller is "chastened," he'll endorse her.
Don't laugh. It's happened before.
He endorsed a "chastened" Bill LaFortune, despite being a nearly constant critic of his and despite LaFortune's nearly constant bumbling.
Bates endorsed Bush in 2004, too. I guess he has a high tolerance for bumbling politicians, just as long as they're Republican.
Hey, anyone read the paper today? It talks about big splash not paying their rent. Thought it might BELONG in this thread.
Mrs. Murphy was on KRMG this AM.
Basically:
- They are paying the money today, which was due IN OCTOBER!! Not January, but October. So more than 6 months late.
- They were working with the Expo CEO on the Coke sponsorship, that's why they were late
- The Coke deal went down a few weeks ago, so the county is holding $105,000 of their money
- They want an abatement on rent because of the parking lot (even though, as pointed out the host, contractual they get nothing), that's why they were late
- Revenue was down because of the parking lot (even though revenue was up for the year)
- They simply didn't know it wasn't paid
She actually said that. She gave three or four excuses for not paying, then said it was just an oversight. Have I called BS yet? Seriously, anyone have a logical defense that I'm just not seeing... because in my experience when you give three or four excuses it's all BS. Especially when the final excuse is mutual exclusive of the others.
- - -
Gold & FB:
Can we at least not quote the entire previous posts. My scroll finger is getting tired.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Gold & FB:
Can we at least not quote the entire previous posts. My scroll finger is getting tired.
Thank you for saying that.
I skipped the stupid quote fest - no idea what they were talking about.
I find it hard to believe Randi Miller, who knew everything there was to know about Bell's contract and "financial plan" knew nothing about Big Splash.
By the way, who is the couty treasurer? I would think they would know when an account has gone unpaid as well as the CEO and others. So why didn't it get reported?
The fair grounds are not that big, how hard can it be to keep track of rent?
Maybe what we really need is for the County Fair Board to start posting up their monthly income statements.
That way we can all keep track of the rent and when it goes unpaid, we can notify them.
Since everyone on the board and on the commission has a bad memory and Ms. Murphey can't remember to pay her rent.
We could all be their happy little helpers.
The CEO took a bullet for everyone involved - but I think there is a lot more to this than will ever meet the eye.
The County Commission is being very careful to protect his reputation for taking that bullet. No cries of outrage.... just covering his butt so he will cover theirs.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Hey, anyone read the paper today? It talks about big splash not paying their rent. Thought it might BELONG in this thread.
Agreed..can anyone delete the rant above these last few posts?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Mrs. Murphy was on KRMG this AM.
Basically:
- They are paying the money today, which was due IN OCTOBER!! Not January, but October. So more than 6 months late.
- They were working with the Expo CEO on the Coke sponsorship, that's why they were late
- The Coke deal went down a few weeks ago, so the county is holding $105,000 of their money
- They want an abatement on rent because of the parking lot (even though, as pointed out the host, contractual they get nothing), that's why they were late
- Revenue was down because of the parking lot (even though revenue was up for the year)
- They simply didn't know it wasn't paid
She actually said that. She gave three or four excuses for not paying, then said it was just an oversight. Have I called BS yet? Seriously, anyone have a logical defense that I'm just not seeing... because in my experience when you give three or four excuses it's all BS. Especially when the final excuse is mutual exclusive of the others.
- - -
Gold & FB:
Can we at least not quote the entire previous posts. My scroll finger is getting tired.
Hey! If no one is making you pay WHY PAY IT! Draw interest on the money and wait until someone complains! Its business!
Because if you don't pay you are in breach and generally subject to fines, fees, and other remedies (eviction, renegotiation). Keep in mind most businesses do not get invoiced for rent or even some loans, payment is known and expected. But if you have confidence that the other party is not going to punish you in any way - then by all means why pay?
Oh, also most businesses try to pay their bills on time to save their reputation. If you get the reputation as being a sleazy customer or slow-to-pay it tends to stick with you. Most people care about that in business.
The CEO was apperently grossly incompetent unless there is more to the story than meets the eye. Perhaps he was simply used to more reputable business people, perhaps he didn't have a good staff, or maybe someone above him was calling the shots. But it was still his duty, as a public employee, to call shenanigans if that is what was going on. Fall guy for someone else or not, he had to go - I'm guessing he isn't "in" on anything or he'd be blowing a whistle damn loud.
What is this crap about Big Splash invoicing the county?
http://www.kten.com/Global/story.asp?S=8615142
The fair board delivered an invoice to Murphy on Wednesday for overdue rent, but Murphy delivered an invoice of her own to the fair board.
She is seeking $115,000 from a Coca-Cola contract the fair board is believed to be considering. She also claims she's owed reiumbursement for alleged revenue loss from a parking lot repaving.
she wants money for a contract that isn't signed based on negotiations bjorklund was doing to give her a cut.
I also need to invoice the lottery commission for a winning I am expecting anytime now....
Evidence of lost business profits is admissible for purposes of determining the fair market value of property before and after a taking, but such evidence is not admissible for the purpose of establishing a separate item of damages for lost profits.
See State of Oklahoma ex rel. Department of Highways v. Robb, 454 P.2d 313,317 (Okl. 1969).
Hmm...the plot thickens:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080710_1__RickB54823
For once the responses at the end of the story were good. All three commissioners are suspect in this soap opera and need to be held accountable. Bjorkland was responding to his bosses, just like oil and tobacco execs do, so that he could maintain a cush job and get good references. Nothing new there.
Best idea I saw was to replace the commissioners, sell the county property for profit to a private entity and move the fairgrounds to a new location. This is not the first location of our county fairgrounds. Traditionally they have been on the outskirts of the city.
What would moving the fairgrounds solve in this equation? If the problem is public mismanagement, favoritism, and possible corruption it doesn't seem the location has anything to do with it. In fact, I've heard nothing that indicates location is any sort of a problem.
Why would this guy lie? Is blowing the whistle on former bosses a good resume builder? I think not.
I really hope there is some proof in this, one way or another. If Miller was indeed batting for Murphy's to this extent then clearly that is the reason Bell's was ousted and I have to wonder what else was going on. Show me proof and then put her (them?) in prison.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
Hmm...the plot thickens:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080710_1__RickB54823
From T.World: 'Bjorklund said Miller, who was fair board chairwoman in 2007, spoke to him about the Big Splash situation in about June of that year.
"The conversation (with Miller) was, 'Ease up on them and get it off the radar,'?" he said.
Bjorklund said he told fair board members about Miller's instructions during the executive session held to determine his fate.
"I turned to Randi and I said: 'You had given me instructions, Randi, to get it off the radar screen, and we did that.'?''
At what point do we start talking criminal charges and/or recall or voluntary resignation? Simply voting this POS out is not an option.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
For once the responses at the end of the story were good. All three commissioners are suspect in this soap opera and need to be held accountable. Bjorkland was responding to his bosses, just like oil and tobacco execs do, so that he could maintain a cush job and get good references. Nothing new there.
Best idea I saw was to replace the commissioners, sell the county property for profit to a private entity and move the fairgrounds to a new location. This is not the first location of our county fairgrounds. Traditionally they have been on the outskirts of the city.
Overeacting a bit are we.....
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
For once the responses at the end of the story were good. All three commissioners are suspect in this soap opera and need to be held accountable. Bjorkland was responding to his bosses, just like oil and tobacco execs do, so that he could maintain a cush job and get good references. Nothing new there.
Best idea I saw was to replace the commissioners, sell the county property for profit to a private entity and move the fairgrounds to a new location. This is not the first location of our county fairgrounds. Traditionally they have been on the outskirts of the city.
Overeacting a bit are we.....
On this forum? Thanks for the compliment.
It has been seriously discussed in the past. Privatization of this property right now makes more sense now than it ever did. No amusement park, no baseball and a failing poorly maintained waterpark on the ropes. Practically a blank slate. Do it now. If the county has a legal obligation to provide a fairgrounds it should be in an area on the edge of town or along the river where the city is not so seriously impacted. This land could be developed with the horse facilities as a centerpiece.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
For once the responses at the end of the story were good. All three commissioners are suspect in this soap opera and need to be held accountable. Bjorkland was responding to his bosses, just like oil and tobacco execs do, so that he could maintain a cush job and get good references. Nothing new there.
Best idea I saw was to replace the commissioners, sell the county property for profit to a private entity and move the fairgrounds to a new location. This is not the first location of our county fairgrounds. Traditionally they have been on the outskirts of the city.
Overeacting a bit are we.....
On this forum? Thanks for the compliment.
It has been seriously discussed in the past. Privatization of this property right now makes more sense now than it ever did. No amusement park, no baseball and a failing poorly maintained waterpark on the ropes. Practically a blank slate. Do it now. If the county has a legal obligation to provide a fairgrounds it should be in an area on the edge of town or along the river where the city is not so seriously impacted. This land could be developed with the horse facilities as a centerpiece.
How would we ever recover the County Taxpayer's huge investment from Four-to-Fix-the-County Fairground construction projects?
Just another huge county write-off; Bell's, followed by the Driller Stadium, followed by ?? (Big Splash?).
Minutes are still taken of executive sessions. It is not an excuse that the meeting is privileged. That privilege can be waived at any time by any of the participants. And, by denying the accusation, one might argue that Miller has waived the privilege by addressing the content of the discussions, e.g. Miller cannot use the privilege as a sword and shield to deny both the accusation and the means to verify her statement.
Now, the questions is - were minutes taken of this executive session and, if so, how were they taken, e.g. by clerk or recording.
If minutes were not taken, who issued that instruction?
quote:
Originally posted by CoffeeBean
Minutes are still taken of executive sessions. It is not an excuse that the meeting is privileged. That privilege can be waived at any time by any of the participants. And, by denying the accusation, one might argue that Miller has waived the privilege by addressing the content of the discussions.
Now, the questions is - were minutes taken of this executive session and, if so, how were they taken, e.g. by clerk or recording.
If minutes were not taken, who issued that instruction?
You have to know that we will never know..
Never know what? We can certainly know if minutes were taken. That's not privileged.
Bjork is making quite the accusation, to the point of defamation or slander or something awful like that. He cannot be so stupid as to do so without backup can he?