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Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: shadows on August 16, 2008, 04:56:41 am Being fully aware that a similar tread was post on 1/29/2008 but is now incomplete in the archives where we also have a rising rate of a pretty crime wave increasing in the Tulsa.
We paint the cars with complete billboard sign from front to back as to make the millions of dollars of police cars visible showing they are available still are driven home to be recalled in case of emergencies . Some 400+ of these are drove to the burbs each days and the cars sit in the suburbs drives with their police signs, are park 104 hours a week,. True they can respond in thirty minutes but how would you feel with a gun pointed at you or family from a suburb and you can criminal he will take care of the next 40 minutes a as soon as the out of town police arrives.. At the shift change one can observe the highly painted police cars enter the express ways of out going police cars from the city. The councilors are required to live in the city and their district still those who are required to control and enforce the ordinances while those along with crime obligations live outside city. There us a unexplainable inherent instinct that exist among many persons who are unable to qualify to join the police department because of the college requirements. Many of the lawmen that tamed the country did not play foot ball or have college hours. It is time to hire dedicated policemen who live in the city who have a vested interest in to a secure of city. 400 police cars parked within the city for 16+hours a day would show the criminal element. That would be over one and half painted sign post painted cars for each square mile. It is time to wake up Tulsa. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: waterboy on August 16, 2008, 04:46:03 pm What ever happened to the investigations of the force by the feds? Did it result in any changes or reforms?
Police are suffering from the same lack of respect and credibility that our elected officials have earned. They know most cops don't have time to mess with petty crime. Any one good story about police involvement and integrity is not enough to overcome the anecdotes that spread like fire when one of them abuses their power or uses their position for personal gain. Afterall, they are just paid government workers like any other. Along with the good guys some are lazy, some are greedy, some are crooked, some are stupid. Recently, I became aware of an officer who counseled one of his family members on how to game the system by lawyering up and basically lying about a traffic incident. How to get fraudulent witnesses, what to say to the doctor for fake medical claims etc. Insurance companies don't like to go to court. A story like that gets around. Visibility may help but I tend to doubt it. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: Wrinkle on August 18, 2008, 11:08:22 am Shad, you should wait until after your first cup of java to post.
Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: shadows on August 19, 2008, 07:49:38 pm I have had my coffee and the situation has not changed.
How do you explain this. A business located within 1000 feet of a all night Quick Trip was assaulted a week ago this last Friday night. Some one attached a chain to an 6’ industrial chain gate to some kind of vehicle and completely destroyed the gate. Started the truck used in the erection business with a 16 foot trailer attached. It contained a gas driven welding machine, drills, punches, grinders and etc. A neighbor call the owner on Saturday morning telling him the gate was a total disaster. He went to the property and called the report into the police department at 10:00 A.M. They responded with a second shift officer at 4:30 P.M. filling out a report and not looking at the damage. On Monday he was called and told they had found the truck and had towed it. The Truck was found over six hundred feet from a road in an open field. The Truck had been burned beyond use. The city notified him that the truck was a road hazard and had been towed even though he had his own wrecker service. He was charged by the Tulsa wrecker hundreds of dollars that he was required to pay regardless of the condition of the vehicle. 400 of Tulsa police cars sits in out-of-city drives each day signifying to the criminal elements that the fox watches not the hen house because they are out of town with our sign painted police cars. Time for our police cars to come home. The charter says the mayor can furnish a police department. She looks out of town for a police chief. Could it be that she needs to look for an in town police department? Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: Wilbur on August 19, 2008, 09:05:28 pm We have to beat this take-home-car policy to death again? Really? Why don't you look at the other 100 threads about the same topic and give us a break!
Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: Rico on August 20, 2008, 08:47:48 pm ^^^
Next... the flurry will be about the "Segway" take home policy..[8D] From channel 2 >"The city has also ordered 6 segways to be used to patrol downtown during events. Officers will be trained on those next week."<end quote Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: shadows on August 20, 2008, 08:52:55 pm I have been audited by the IRS three times. I paid, plus interest, because I drove a company car to eat and drove it home at times. I am a firm believer In the equal protection clause.
A telephone girl that brought her lunch and sat at her desk was determined to be a standby phone operator by the labor department and entitle to overtime pay when eating her lunch. Mileage between place of employment and residence are under the tax code reduced to compensation Those driving city vehicles three miles for personal use should be compensation under the equal protection codes the difference in cost of driving vehicles 50 miles a day for personal use. I did not intend to rehash a policy that has gotten out of hand but the escalating operating cost of operating city vehicles is increasing beyond budget limitations. Sorry but I hate to watch a city in default. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: shadows on August 20, 2008, 09:20:18 pm We have tried horses, bicycles, motor cycles, gangs, and increase crime with the prediction within the next 3 decades the white race will be in the minority. Channel 2 donating six segways for the curtailing the crime agenda will be greatly appreciated by the citizens of Tulsa as well as any thing to reduce crime. I wonder it they come equipped with back packs to where they can be strapped on the officers back as he negotiates the curbs and pot holes Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: Wilbur on August 21, 2008, 03:30:01 am quote: And the title of your post 'Should we look at Tulsa crime and make changes?' has what to do with this? Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: rwarn17588 on August 21, 2008, 09:49:09 am quote: You've claimed in your posts that you're an American Indian, shadows. Since you claim to be a minority yourself, why should you care if whites eventually become a minority? Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: guido911 on August 21, 2008, 09:59:05 am quote: Oh, nevermind. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: shadows on August 22, 2008, 09:04:59 pm Wilbur: Being all thing are relative, using it as an illustration as has been cited the visibility of the highly painted police cars has the effect to deter crime. In the instant case had one of the cars been sitting in the city it may have prevented the example cited or a like one which the total cost is charged to the citizens. 400 (one + for every square miles of the city) police cars being driven for personal use out side the city, in the allowable 50 miles a day round trip range, five days a week at 250 miles or 1,000 miles per month; using the 400 figure of those driven to residencies that fit the category; that is 400,000 miles per month that the citizens are having to pay without any benefits to Tulsa. The cost of fuel, upkeep, and servicing would be equal to totaling wearing out one new police car every 60 days with 800,000 miles of personal use on it.
We are driving the police cars to suburbs whereas the officer claims to be on standby which can cause the city a heap of trouble in a build up of standby time if they are in communication with the department. ------------------------------------------------ 17588: Have the papers on the desk. Would post them but time will limit me to participating in the revolt of 2042 or sooner. Have copy of Jackson’s promise that he will move the Indian to a new location of which will be theirs forever????? ------------------------------------------------ Guido911: I think that the common citizens of Tulsa feel they are getting the effects of an royal erection daily. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: Wilbur on August 23, 2008, 11:36:30 am quote: First of all, your numbers are taken to the extreme. The vast majority of people who drive outside the city DO NOT drive the 25 mile maximum. Second, none of the cars are allowed to be used for personal use. Additionally, and what I don't understand, according to your own profile, you live in Broken Arrow. Why don't you ever complain about Broken Arrow doing the same thing (driving police cars outside of Broken Arrow)? You living in Broken Arrow is on the receiving end of Tulsa officers driving cars home to Broken Arrow (well within the 25 mile limit). You also never complain about the many other agencies having the same practice who drive and park their cars in Tulsa. Why not? Take the amount of extra fuel being spent to drive cars home and divide it by the entire city operating budget (just the operating budget, not even total city expenditures, which is a much larger amount) and you get 0.0002%. We'd save more then that just turning off a few lights at city hall. The city's electric bill is 3+X more then the gasoline bill. And how do you measure crime deterrent? It's not free! And, you got me! I vowed I wasn't going to get in this discussion again. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: shadows on August 25, 2008, 03:36:28 pm Wilbur: The profile is true. I am a native born Tulsan who birth certificate is one file at the health department.
The constant resubmitting the municipal charter again, that placed total monarchal powers in a corporate programmed person caused the purchase of a home within the fence lines of NEW TULSA, which residents, new and old, thought the BA address would add prestige to the status quo Being the only one to protest the removal of the fence allowing BA to annex New Tulsa and the annexing of the area in the fence line gave me the BA address. This left me with three pieces of property which are being taxes and fee’s constantly makes one want to look to ways, to in fairness reduce these taxes and fee’s of which are imposed on the property of which I have no voting rights. The once battle cry of “Taxation without representation” is a reality to me today. I was not aware that the assigning of a special highly painted police car, assigned to one person, who also was able to drive to residences outside the city to his residence in another city, was not personal use under the IRS tax codes. If we cut the figures I used to the average of 12.5 miles each way we still come up with 200,000 miles monthly of personal transportation of city nonresidents, paid solely by Tulsa citizens. If one uses the old cliché that the officer is on standby then that opens the door for any one of our million attorneys to bring a class action suit to reclaim the millions of dollars owned by the city for being captive in the standby category. The comparing of the percentage of the budget being used for personal transportation is like predicting the straw that would break the camel’s back. I believe in fairness to all and equal protection to every citizen. I think every vehicle bought by the citizen for community use should have the same high visible paint job with “Property of Tulsa” painted in the same font as “police” is painted on the cars paid for by the citizens for public use. Having posted the true and open profile in an open presentation I feel I have answered why I have a BA address but a great interest in the Tulsa budget. In many instants of budgeting I feel that the those who need financial assistance in lowering utility fee’s and property taxes are being short changed. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: Gaspar on August 25, 2008, 04:00:58 pm Ok, lets examine some probable scenarios. . .
Chief --"Hello young man, welcome to the Tulsa Police force. I see you passed your exams with flying colors." Officer--"Thank you sir, I'm looking forward to getting started on the force." Chief--" Ok, I like your enthusiasm." " Here the key to your cruiser and a map with the boundaries of the area that you will need to relocate your family." Officer--"Um. . . I don't want to live on North 36th street." Chief--" Too bad, you must live within your beat." " It's required." Officer--"I quit." "I'll just have to take that warehouse job with UPS for twice the money, or work for the Post office for twice the money" -or- Chief--"The new Tulsa police protection ordinance requires all officers to reside within their beats if they wish to drive a city vehicle home." Officers--"Ok, we'll just drive our own vehicles home." "Makes us less conspicuous at job interviews." ------ Our fine police officers are not very highly paid. Most of them are wonderful folks with families, who are in the business of giving to their communities. I view them in almost the same light as military personnel. I do not want to limit their freedom to live in whatever community they wish, nor do I think that a company car is unreasonable. We have more important things to worry about than limiting the freedom of our under-paid city servants. Don't we? Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: RecycleMichael on August 25, 2008, 10:33:17 pm quote: What makes you think they are underpaid? The starting monthly pay during the seven month academy is $3,217 (works out to $38,604 per year). Upon graduation, they make $42,470 plus a free car and tremendous health benefits and all the overtime they want. All officers with a degree also get a hundred dollar a month extra. Officers also get a $9.60 extra per month for each month they have served to a maximum of $240 per month. That means the starting pay is now $50,000 plus a take home company car (gotta be worth another $7,000 a year). The Tulsa World has a database for all government salaries and just in salaries alone, over a hundred Tulsa police officers made over $70,000 in base pay last year. Add in time and a half overtime, the other added pay and the car and these officers now make over $90,000 a year. I think Tulsa Police are paid fine and they have no problem finding plenty of qualified applicants. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: shadows on August 25, 2008, 10:55:29 pm Gaspar| My post refers to policies but you have a point. We could place an add in papers in Germany, Japan, Mexico that we have opens in Tulsa where we will train them, give them keys to a new car with police painted on it in big letters, can live outside Tulsa in cities within the 25 radius of Tulsa, knowing the city and the background of the citizens is not required but it would help to speak English.
Or advertise we have openings for persons who are residents of Tulsa, have a background knowledge of the cities problems and park the city police cars that are furnished you to drive home, in a conspicuous spot when off duty, being visible to help curtail the increasing small crime wave we have. If you have doubts go park your curser at an throughway intersection behind the stop sign and watch the stop light on the vehicles come on as they approach the parked police car. The first duty of an officer should be stopping the crime before it happens in Tulsa not outlying towns. I understand there is a new study suggesting the hiring of civilians to man the desks and put more police on the streets but we cannot afford new cars for them until we find a new source of income to buy new cars or maybe they already are driving cars home in the surrounding cities. The military, to my knowledge, does not furnish private vehicles to drive off base so why should the citizens of Tulsa furnish them when the city has a much smaller budget. Course with the amount of revenue bonds we are issuing we could let some of the tensile encased building go and have enough money to let every citizen have a new car. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: MH2010 on August 26, 2008, 12:30:52 am quote: Here we go again. This discussion comes up every year. This year was a little late. The 10 city survey the city of Tulsa agreed to shows we are underpaid in comparision to other cities our size. We have an extremely hard time finding qualified applicants. Most cities in the 10 city survey don't require a college education and pay more than us. We also have a hard time retaining trained officers. I love the math that a take-home car that can't be used for personal use is worth $7,000.00 a year. The take home car is a benefit both ways. The city gets a fully trained officer on the streets, available to respond to calls (on their way to and from work or extra job or court for the price of gas, which was $3.29 a gallon today (which the city buys tax free). Sure beats paying an officer time and a half for overtime. 100 officers made $70,000.00 in base pay? That is still below the average when compared to other cities our size. As far as "all the overtime you want", that is just wrong. Where do you come up with this? We can't just decide to work overtime. Officers just don't say, I think I'll work an extra five hours tonight. Overtime is monitored. Officers are regularly sent home so the city doesn't have to pay overtime whenever possible. Don't think for one minute, the city likes paying officers time and a half when they could be paying officers regular time. Besides, overtime worked is extra time (time spent at work over the normal 40 hours a week. Which means more time away from our families. I know it might sound crazy but officers do have lives outside of work. If the city would properly staff the police department officers would work less overtime(which would make city finance happy) and be able to spend more time at home with their families (which would make most officers happy). Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: Wilbur on August 26, 2008, 04:36:02 am quote: MH2010 - Don't do it! Don't get sucked in again! RecycleMichael believes all city employees are paid too much, unless you are a Mayor appointee, then you are paid too little. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: RecycleMichael on August 26, 2008, 06:01:40 am I don't believe that all city employees are paid too much. I don't think police officers are paid too much.
I think they are paid fairly. I just am tired of the argument that police are paid too little. Whenever I hear that argument, I ask the person how much they are paid. They never know, but just assume they are underpaid. It must be great to have everybody think you are underpaid when nobody knows how much that actually is. I just wanted to inform them of the facts. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: shadows on August 26, 2008, 06:30:36 am Gads; RM not only needs to wear a black wig with sunglasses now after that posting. He should also add a straw hat and trench coat, when peddling those tickets in competition with stores that are also selling them at face value. The lying bare the true compensations received by our out-of-town police departments, that wants to live sixteen hours a day in other cities, may not set well with our department and could cause more drive by shooting because our police are not at the home base.
A bouquet of non-recycled roses should be presented to him for researching the true compensation received by the police department in the World data. Stand up and give him a loud hand. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: RecycleMichael on August 26, 2008, 06:36:15 am It is a good thing I am a law-abiding citizen.
I know both MH2010 and wilbur personally. They are fine officers. If I was speeding down the street and they saw me, I doubt my comments on this forum would change the outcome. If I deserved the ticket, they would give me one. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: Gaspar on August 26, 2008, 07:07:16 am quote: Ok, I stand corrected, let me rephrase. . . "We have more important things to worry about than limiting the freedom of our fairly-paid city servants." I feel that any skilled profession with a salary cap is unfortunate (but that is just my perspective). City servants, or others that choose to work in skilled professions that limit advancement, except of course by political means, should be respected for their sacrifice. Skilled professions like Teachers, Cops, and Firefighters, should always garner the respect of the communities they serve. Perks, like company cars, medical insurance, dental plans, and retirement are enticements designed to attract and keep employees. They are less expensive than frequent turnover. There is also something about "benefits" that makes people perceive that they are getting something that they couldn't acquire on their own. Would you rather have an extra $4,000 a year in pay-raise or a new company car to drive? Would you rather have an extra $450 a year pay-raise or a dental plan? Would you rather have $7,500 a year pay-raise or a medical plan? Perception drives benefit programs, it's a tool that companies use as a bargaining chip, and causes an unnatural dependance on the company that helps foster employee retention. That's all it is. Just like the unnatural dependence on government that some feel, because they have been socialized to believe it. So back to my point. I don't think the use of city vehicles by city employees for transportation to and from the workplace is unreasonable. I don't think that the city has any right to mandate where an employee can choose to live either. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: shadows on August 26, 2008, 07:34:14 am MH2010 posted “love the math that a take-home car that can't be used for personal use is worth $7,000.00 a year. The take home car is a benefit both ways. The city gets a fully trained officer on the streets, available to respond to calls (on their way to and from work or extra job or court for the price of gas, which was $3.29 a gallon today (which the city buys tax free). Sure beats paying an officer time and a half for overtime
-------------------------------------------- Unless there has been great changes in the surplus in the state and federal road taxes and all the highways are not need of repair the gas used in personal commuting in government cars are taxed the same as any other gas tax. The free lunches were removed along in the beer area to be replaced with road taxes to repair roads and bridges. Tulsa looks forward to the road tax of one each month of one dollar for each and ever person on the last census report. Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: tnt091605 on September 12, 2008, 11:19:14 pm Shadows you are so ignorant!
and by your own comment " Posted - 08/20/2008 : 21:52:55 I have been audited by the IRS three times. I paid, plus interest, because I drove a company car to eat and drove it home at times. I am a firm believer In the equal protection clause." A CHEAT!!!!! Title: Should we look at Tulsa cirme and make changes? Post by: tnt091605 on September 12, 2008, 11:22:04 pm Gaspar, well said!
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