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Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: Gaspar on August 28, 2008, 07:48:11 am Wow!
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectID=32&articleID=20080828_32_E1_Ctnhii713346 Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: Conan71 on August 28, 2008, 08:01:49 am Restaurants and retail have another hard year or two ahead of them or at least until oil prices stabilize some. I'm betting some of the RD's tennants are starting to get a little antsy about building new units in Tulsa.
Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: sgrizzle on August 28, 2008, 08:13:39 am I believe their main client was Wal-Mart who stopped adding supercenters (the same reason they didn't put one downtown)
Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: citizen72 on August 28, 2008, 08:20:15 am All the architects I know in town and the area are very busy. My belief is that if you are good managers of your projects, word of mouth references will keep you busy and prosperous. Professionalism in your treatment of your competition is another biggy. Remember there are always two sides to a story.
Here's to big old crocodile tears to those that finally run their course. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: citizen72 on August 28, 2008, 08:24:37 am A far as Walmart is concerned this might be worth noting. There is an architectural firm in Northwest Arkansas that is still feasting heavily on work from Walmart. I believe there is another in Tulsa that is in a similar position.
Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: Friendly Bear on August 28, 2008, 08:32:31 am quote: If BSW had been a Connected Crony of the local construction company cartel (Manhattan/Flint), then they'd still be busy working on sole-sourced Goobermint projects. Like the BOK Arena. And the new downtown Driller Stadium. Sparks and Associates got an education about Pay-to-Play with the local Construction Cartel and its connected cronies back in 2003, when Vision 2025 was being funded to the tune of $1 million to promote its passage. Sparks paid in $25K, and didn't get back a nickles worth of work for his firm. Boy, was he ever P.O.'d. And, he said so, publically. Wonder if he's been blackballed by the local ruling power Oligarchy? Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: citizen72 on August 28, 2008, 08:49:21 am quote: Of course we must not leave Flintco off that list. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: Friendly Bear on August 28, 2008, 08:58:13 am quote: Of course, they are included by name in the local connected construction cartel. Plus, they seem to get the Indian Casino work. Wonder if they helped fund that State Question legalizing Indian table gaming and Class III slot machines back when it passed? BIG casino building boom since then. I noticed that Flintco is listed as the Construction Co. on the Indian Casino at 81st and Riverside Parkway. Flint also seems to get a great deal of the local School Districts school construction projects. They built the Union School District Arena, called the UMAC. Cost overruns galore, of course. And, the two major state universities and OSU-Tulsa have been on a building boom being flush as they are with taxpayer money. Wonder if Flinto is really the hidden player supporting the militant OEA teachers union constant agitation for SMALLER CLASS SIZE?? It's the OEA Mantra: SMALLER CLASS SIZE = BETTER EDUCATION. Well, really Smaller Class Size means = MORE SCHOOL ROOMS and MORE SCHOOL BUILDINGS. And, more teachers and principals and UNION MEMBERS. And, Flint just LOVES to build school buildings. It's FOR THE CHILDREN, you know....... [:P] Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: Gaspar on August 28, 2008, 09:19:39 am Our architecture and engineering departments are very busy. We will most likely hire some of the good BSW folks. They had a lot of production drafters though, we need folks with actual design experience.
Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: citizen72 on August 28, 2008, 10:53:45 am quote: Gary Sparks is an exceptional human being. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: FOTD on August 28, 2008, 10:55:46 am The canary in the coal mine.....look out below.
Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: Gaspar on August 28, 2008, 12:00:48 pm Gary is a great guy!
Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: Friendly Bear on August 28, 2008, 12:35:18 pm quote: I've never met him. In the radio interview he gave concerning "Pay to Play", he talked about the Quid Pro Quo required by the Vision 2025 organizers: If you wanted to share in the construction contracts, how much the FARE would cost to "Pay to Play". Actually, isn't that kind of like: ILLEGAL? Promise of a government financial benefit in exchange for a campaign contribution? Hmmmmmh? Didn't the FEDS put some bond underwriters in Federal Prison who "Paid to Play" to corrupt Philadelphia politicians in order to receive $100,000,000's in city bond underwriting business? It involved former Mayor Street's political crew, and his financial bagman Ronnie White...... Hmmmmmh? Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: Steve on August 28, 2008, 08:15:40 pm I used to work for Tulsa's now defunct State Federal Savings and Loan from 1979 to 1992. State Federal built its new home office at the southwest corner of 5th & Main street, designed by BSW architects as I recall. We moved from our old location at 610 S. Main next door to the Chamber of Commerce to the grand new headquarters in 1981, right on Bartlett Square/Main Mall by the great (now destroyed) Main Mall plaza/fountain. BSW was the architect, the firm of VanFossen & Brase was the interior design firm. I remember so vividly moving into that new building, we were all so proud at the time.
The building is now Arvest. I couldn't have a lower opinion of that firm. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: ARGUS on August 28, 2008, 09:22:46 pm hello! Flintco gets the casino work because it is an indian firm.
Gary Sparks is a nice guy (I know). ALL ARCHITECTURAL FIRMS NEED (and contractors wish)THEY HAD EMPLOYEES WHO HAD ACTUAL DESIGN EXPERIENCE. Some architects think a carpenters arm is 5' long. wow. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: citizen72 on August 28, 2008, 10:09:20 pm quote: Oh, oh here comes the old deficient incompetent architects story and the contractor riding in on their white steed to save the day with the unaware owner. In a State where the contractor is not required to take any kind of test to be a G.C. there sure are a lot of intuitively smart builders. This in an environment that requires the architect and his engineering consultants continually watch the building personnel like a hawk to ascertain the construction documents are followed. Go blow your horn somewhere else. It is very tiring hearing this G.C. "tolerating the architect" dribble all the time. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: Conan71 on August 29, 2008, 09:33:34 am An architect I row with was telling me over a beer last night that BSW was the "big box" of architecture firms. He also reiterated that the firm firm he works for is staying quite busy these days.
He speculated BSW's problems had less to do with national economy issues, but rather a lot of work getting shifted elsewhere. He made BSW sound kind of like a people mill and that it had trained a lot of architects who went on to start their own firms when they got burned out at BSW. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: sgrizzle on August 29, 2008, 09:36:58 am So BSW failed due to the economy... Is that like Fox Collision failing due to the insurance industry?
Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: Gaspar on August 29, 2008, 10:03:57 am quote: Everyone has worked at BSW for at least 6 months. EVERYONE. Thats where most got their start until they wanted to go do design. BSW had some great folks, but they were a cubicle farm, a skill filter. If it was big, white, and square, they probably designed it. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: ARGUS on August 29, 2008, 01:08:45 pm Thanks citizen for your comments.
Yes it does take a lot of oversight by architectural firms and engineering firms to get compliance to a spec. book and plans. But my hostile fellow forum member you seem to fail at understanding my point. And that was there are architects out there that ONLY know it by the book and lack real world experience. True this is a magnetic sign state........Got pick up? Yep. Got magnectic sign? Yep. Bingo your in bizness. Blow my horn please. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: sgrizzle on August 29, 2008, 01:29:20 pm quote: I'm waiting until someone realizes the BOK Center is stainless and great for magnets. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: citizen72 on August 29, 2008, 02:42:01 pm quote: I understand your point all too well. What it nearly always boils down to is one trying to make themselves out to be superior to another. You sound like someone that was perhaps given on-the-job training in construction. These teachers were most likely taught by other on-the-job trained people. It becomes a vicious cycle. If you get up even morning for forty years doing something wrong at the end of that forty years is it then right. No it isn't. I will say this. I have been an architect for thirty five years and before that I was trained in construction by my contractor father. Know what? As I was developing as a professional I had to unlearn much of my father's teachings because it was technically wrong. So, don't give me that old tired phrase that all architects know is the book. You would be well to listen more and talk less. It might just be an education. And, it is not hostility I'm expressing here. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: Gaspar on August 29, 2008, 03:37:43 pm quote: If a magnet will stick to it, we have another problem. The cost of nickel over the past few years has gone up significantly. That's why the new stainless steel grill you buy rusts out in a year or two. Stainless manufacturers have found ways to supplement the alloy while still maintaining the ASTM specifications. This "less than stainless" stainless is a dead giveaway if a magnet will stick to it. It has more iron than it should, and consequently will corrode much faster than the less ferris stainless steel. It's also very susceptible to galvanic and chemical corrosion from weather. The early stages of this corrosion will be dark streaks that wipe off as a black or grey residue with a metallic smell. It will still last a long time, it will just loose it's shine and become dark grey and streaked. I hope magnets don't stick to the BOK. If so, I hope the metal is heavily laminated. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: ARGUS on August 29, 2008, 07:10:40 pm mr. citizen, I was not speaking in absoulutes about "ALL architects know is BOOK".Blame it on the internet. I am sorry your father taught you things you needed to UNLEARN. My father taught me things I still utilize and the architects that I have been around were thankful and impressed (possibly even you...who knows). The architects and engineers I have worked for and with have also taught me many valuable things and methods...know why? Mutual RESPECT.
You are somewhat correct on my so-called up bringing. Perhaps your father scrimped on the part of your lessons about learning from the other man on the job. In a state where it is kind of the wild west (no GC certifications)if one is going to be successful you had better be intuitive. I am not broke, still have all my fingers and have not killed anybody or been sued (or had my _ss kicked). I think you have mis read the intent of my post about all architectural firms needing/wishing they had actual employees with real world field experience...I think that would be ideal...from both sides a such as a jr architect with some dirt under his nails and a superintendent with some classical design training/exposure.Why do architects ask a contractor for help in value engineering( I hate that term)? To see what the "other side" might be able to reveal to them from their knowledge that could streamline the process. good day. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: citizen72 on August 29, 2008, 09:57:22 pm quote: And, as is normal you guys talk out of both sides of your mouth. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: ARGUS on September 02, 2008, 11:08:37 am So much for middle ground. Thanks I appreciate that. After trying to be mellow and calmly & fairly debate and exchange information; I must dub you an "Internet Tuff Guy" and apparent "know it all"..let me guess...remember Martin's BBQ......they had an animal on their sign...and a slogan...."Everybody eats here but me...and you know what Iam!". I now must believe you are that animal.
Thanks for the civil discourse. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: citizen72 on September 02, 2008, 02:33:54 pm quote: No, I am not the internet tuff guy. Just remember whose comment started this ridiculous conversation. Yes, it was you with your snide remarks. I am weary up to my ears with construction guys who think it is cute and productive to make condescending remarks about Architects. There could be a lot more said, but it would be to no avail so I will just stop here. Have a good day sir. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: inteller on September 02, 2008, 04:07:18 pm quote: Gary Sparks....of TMAPC fame?.....uh no. Title: BSW Closes Down Post by: ARGUS on September 02, 2008, 05:22:04 pm citizen, I said SOME as in "some architects..."
I also said: ALL ARCHITECTS NEED....referring to the balance of actual "in field" work experience AND "book" training. It would seem foolish if one did not want an employee in this field with real world experience;correct? Your an architect; what are a couple of projects you have worked on over the years? I have been involved in mostly medical office/clinic & facility contruction to poured in place parking structures to renal dialysis facilties to MRI installation and remodel to even metal building construction. I was a carpenter apprentice for 4 yrs, at one time long long ago I was in the labor union (that was interesting). I think I know what's what and do speak not from a position of authority until absoulutly neccesary....In other words listen to the guy and see if what he is saying is logical before slamming him. I meant no disrespect by my comments and dont think any were taken except by you. Please reread this thread with that in mind to see if it hits you any different. |