Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Porky on August 30, 2008, 06:05:42 pm
I can't wait to read what all of you thought of the BOK Center, that went today? I'm completely speechless on what I saw. The best way I can explain the BOK Center is to image yourself in the nicest and classiest airport terminal in the world, with an arena built right square dab in the middle of it. Absolutely unbelievable how nice of an arena we have. 8-)
Here's some of the pictures I took today: http://sportstoday.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=porky&action=display&thread=606
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Hoss on August 30, 2008, 06:18:49 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
I can't wait to read what all of you thought of the BOK Center, that went today? I'm completely speechless on what I saw. The best way I can explain the BOK Center is to image yourself in the nicest and classiest airport terminal in the world, with an arena built right square dab in the middle of it. Absolutely unbelievable how nice of an arena we have. 8-)
Here's some of the pictures I took today: http://sportstoday.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=porky&action=display&thread=606
I started feeling poorly about 12pm, but I took my mother down there and we got there before 10am. Parking was actually not that difficult, and given that my mom requires a wheelchair and I have a blue hangtag (but wound up not using a blue space) that was pretty simple. The walk wasn't bad. I was struck how inviting the space was. There was just so much openness in the grand lobby to the entrance to the lower bowl it was hard to describe. It lends itself to the wow factor for sure. Here are my photos. Not as many as yours, but variety, dontcha know! BOK Center Grand Opening (http://"http://www.flickr.com/photos/oilerfan/sets/72157607024762196/detail/")
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Porky on August 30, 2008, 06:39:23 pm
Great pics, Hoss.
I can't tell you how brutal the heat was there today.
On the parking situation........I'm guessing there were 2-3,000 people there today when the doors opened. Even with the Jehovah Witnesses having a convention next door, parking wasn't a problem.
Today was an exercise for our city of Tulsa to see what they needed to address. They will address the parking and shuttles will be running the routes where parking is available. So parking isn't going to be a problem at all.
The only problem I saw today and I hate to say this because I thought the idea was really neat. Those 3 wheel bicycles that shuttle people back and forth from the Blue Dome district will have to go. They had traffic backed up everywhere. I think there is an answer to keep them going and that is for the city to allow them to use the sidewalls for their travels.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Hoss on August 30, 2008, 07:22:06 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
Great pics, Hoss.
I can't tell you how brutal the heat was there today.
On the parking situation........I'm guessing there were 2-3,000 people there today when the doors opened. Even with the Jehovah Witnesses having a convention next door, parking wasn't a problem.
Today was an exercise for our city of Tulsa to see what they needed to address. They will address the parking and shuttles will be running the routes where parking is available. So parking isn't going to be a problem at all.
The only problem I saw today and I hate to say this because I thought the idea was really neat. Those 3 wheel bicycles that shuttle people back and forth from the Blue Dome district will have to go. They had traffic backed up everywhere. I think there is an answer to keep them going and that is for the city to allow them to use the sidewalls for their travels.
I know; we got there around 9:30 and sat over by the trolley until we got in. Stayed until just after noon. It was quite warm, but more humid than hot.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: citizen72 on August 30, 2008, 07:57:10 pm
Went to the open house with about eight people and everyone was just awed. Great facility.
Questions from our group.
1. Are they going to put down floor covering where there is none now?
2. Will the raw concrete be finished with paint or skimcoat?
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Hoss on August 30, 2008, 08:00:51 pm
quote:
Originally posted by citizen72
Went to the open house with about eight people and everyone was just awed. Great facility.
Questions from our group.
1. Are they going to put down floor covering where there is none now?
2. Will the raw concrete be finished with paint or skimcoat?
If you're talking about upper concourse, the answer is no. All sealed concrete up above. If you're talking about carpeting, the answer is only in the premium level.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: sgrizzle on August 30, 2008, 09:10:40 pm
quote:
Originally posted by citizen72
Went to the open house with about eight people and everyone was just awed. Great facility.
Questions from our group.
1. Are they going to put down floor covering where there is none now?
2. Will the raw concrete be finished with paint or skimcoat?
The arena is finished. If at some point a donor wants to pay for terrazo on the 3rd level (upper concourse) then it will get it. Otherwise, no. Keep in mind the upper concourse only get 20% of the traffic the lower one does. Any unpainted concrete was intentionally unpainted. Part of the "feel" they were going for. Don't ask me, I didn't design it.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: HazMatCFO on August 31, 2008, 05:32:47 am
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
I can't wait to read what all of you thought of the BOK Center, that went today? I'm completely speechless on what I saw. The best way I can explain the BOK Center is to image yourself in the nicest and classiest airport terminal in the world, with an arena built right square dab in the middle of it. Absolutely unbelievable how nice of an arena we have. 8-)
Here's some of the pictures I took today: http://sportstoday.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=porky&action=display&thread=606
Thank you for the pictures. The BOK Center looks good.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: AMP on August 31, 2008, 08:15:53 am
Took the tour and spoke to several people there that were representing the building, but left with a few unanswered questions.
Anyone have any specs on the Arena such as the dimensions of the cargo doors that enter the floor at the BOK Arena? Heigth, Width and are they a straight shot outside with no turns?
Dimensions of the floor in feet?
Load limit, per square foot, on the arena floor that has the icing system inside it?
Can you drive a semi tractor with trailer, full size dump truck or skid loader onto the arena floor?
Where does the large scoreboard store
during events that need that space overhead?
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: TURobY on August 31, 2008, 08:47:09 am
The concrete mirrors the exterior concrete. It is a design element throughout.
I'm glad someone else thought "airport" when they were in there. Kathy Taylor was there, and talking to the visitors. I got to chit chat with her and she even posed with me for a picture. It's a great facility, and I can't wait to go to my first couple of shows!
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: TheArtist on August 31, 2008, 09:19:54 am
I really like how open and welcoming this facility feels. I disliked going to things at the old convention center arena precisely because it always felt so dark, depressing and dungeon like. Being in this building is like a breath of fresh air in comparison. Very nice. Plus just going into the building and being in those beautiful spaces makes an event feel like a real event.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Friendly Bear on August 31, 2008, 10:39:03 am
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I really like how open and welcoming this facility feels. I disliked going to things at the old convention center arena precisely because it always felt so dark, depressing and dungeon like. Being in this building is like a breath of fresh air in comparison. Very nice. Plus just going into the building and being in those beautiful spaces makes an event feel like a real event.
Enjoy the party. The Vision 2025 Sales Tax hangover will be with us for another 8 years.......
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: TheArtist on August 31, 2008, 12:13:27 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I really like how open and welcoming this facility feels. I disliked going to things at the old convention center arena precisely because it always felt so dark, depressing and dungeon like. Being in this building is like a breath of fresh air in comparison. Very nice. Plus just going into the building and being in those beautiful spaces makes an event feel like a real event.
Enjoy the party.
The Vision 2025 Sales Tax hangover will be with us for another 8 years.......
What do you mean?
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: bacjz00 on August 31, 2008, 12:33:35 pm
**Note to all posters: ignore the damn bear**
Back on topic:
We took the kids yesterday and we had a great time. What a gem for our city!! It tells visitors that we are a first class town even if we aren't the largest megalopolis in the midwest. And man are we ever gonna use this thing!!!
Thanks for the pics you all...those were great shots of the new crown jewel of our city.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: sgrizzle on August 31, 2008, 12:37:40 pm
quote:
Originally posted by AMP
Took the tour and spoke to several people there that were representing the building, but left with a few unanswered questions.
Anyone have any specs on the Arena such as the dimensions of the cargo doors that enter the floor at the BOK Arena? Heigth, Width and are they a straight shot outside with no turns?
Dimensions of the floor in feet?
Load limit, per square foot, on the arena floor that has the icing system inside it?
Can you drive a semi tractor with trailer, full size dump truck or skid loader onto the arena floor?
Where does the large scoreboard store
during events that need that space overhead?
I'll answer out of order. The scoreboard fully retracts into the ceiling, there is a gap between the catwalks. I don't know about a semi tractor for sure but this was designed with those types of events in mind. The PRCA has to haul in and move dirt around and they were very pleased with the facilities. The arena floor is a straight shot to the loading dock. If you drive onto the loading dock then it's a 90-ish degree turn from the ramp towards the arena floor. I have passed your other questions on to someone who can answer them better.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Friendly Bear on August 31, 2008, 05:11:04 pm
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I really like how open and welcoming this facility feels. I disliked going to things at the old convention center arena precisely because it always felt so dark, depressing and dungeon like. Being in this building is like a breath of fresh air in comparison. Very nice. Plus just going into the building and being in those beautiful spaces makes an event feel like a real event.
Enjoy the party.
The Vision 2025 Sales Tax hangover will be with us for another 8 years.......
What do you mean?
The additional 6/10 cent Vision 2025 Sales Tax hangover does not abate until 1-1-2017. At that juncture, I'm absolutely positive that the local Tax Vampires will attempt to extend it, advertising that it will not "increase" taxes. Any bets? Next bet: Within five years, the City Operating budget will have a annual $5 million additional operating costs due to the Arena, above and beyond any revenue received after the management company is taken care of... Any bets?
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Hoss on August 31, 2008, 06:51:47 pm
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by AMP
Took the tour and spoke to several people there that were representing the building, but left with a few unanswered questions.
Anyone have any specs on the Arena such as the dimensions of the cargo doors that enter the floor at the BOK Arena? Heigth, Width and are they a straight shot outside with no turns?
Dimensions of the floor in feet?
Load limit, per square foot, on the arena floor that has the icing system inside it?
Can you drive a semi tractor with trailer, full size dump truck or skid loader onto the arena floor?
Where does the large scoreboard store
during events that need that space overhead?
I'll answer out of order.
The scoreboard fully retracts into the ceiling, there is a gap between the catwalks.
I don't know about a semi tractor for sure but this was designed with those types of events in mind. The PRCA has to haul in and move dirt around and they were very pleased with the facilities.
The arena floor is a straight shot to the loading dock. If you drive onto the loading dock then it's a 90-ish degree turn from the ramp towards the arena floor.
I have passed your other questions on to someone who can answer them better.
Scott, doesn't the bottom two sections of the scoreboard collapse up into the main section, creating an even shorter profile to store? Or did I read some of the literature wrong?
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: TheArtist on August 31, 2008, 08:06:04 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I really like how open and welcoming this facility feels. I disliked going to things at the old convention center arena precisely because it always felt so dark, depressing and dungeon like. Being in this building is like a breath of fresh air in comparison. Very nice. Plus just going into the building and being in those beautiful spaces makes an event feel like a real event.
Enjoy the party.
The Vision 2025 Sales Tax hangover will be with us for another 8 years.......
What do you mean?
The additional 6/10 cent Vision 2025 Sales Tax hangover does not abate until 1-1-2017.
At that juncture, I'm absolutely positive that the local Tax Vampires will attempt to extend it, advertising that it will not "increase" taxes.
Any bets?
Next bet:
Within five years, the City Operating budget will have a annual $5 million additional operating costs due to the Arena, above and beyond any revenue received after the management company is taken care of...
Any bets?
Ummm, So? And your point is? lol Oooh guess what... the sky is blue,,, water is wet, and it gets rather hot in August in Oklahoma. [:P]
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: sgrizzle on August 31, 2008, 08:33:22 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
Scott, doesn't the bottom two sections of the scoreboard collapse up into the main section, creating an even shorter profile to store? Or did I read some of the literature wrong?
I've got some closeups and ot looks like the large ring is securely fastened in place and is immovable. The bottom ring might move but that only buys you a couple of feet.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: AMP on August 31, 2008, 09:41:29 pm
(http://i33.tinypic.com/2duxweh.jpg)
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2ni1s1f.jpg)
(http://i35.tinypic.com/2rwomsy.jpg)
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: MsProudSooner on September 01, 2008, 03:35:37 pm
I arrived in the area before the opening ceremonies were finished. After deciding I didn't want to wait in the sweltering sun to get inside, I ran a short errand and came back. I parked in the parking garage on 1st street. Great location, but the elevator isn't working, which meant 5 stories of stairs for me!
I was very impressed with the BOK Center. The main entrance area is very striking. The ramp leading to the 3rd level is very nice. The concourses seem wider than in the AA Center in Dallas, which is a good thing.
A couple of questions and a comment.
1) How many actual entrances to the building are there? I went in at the main entrance and saw the entrance by the box office. Are there others?
2) Are there multiple escalators to the 3rd level or just one?
Was it just me or could the replay screen on the scoreboard have been bigger?
Overall, I think it's very impressive and I look forward to taking out of town visitors to see it.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: SDTULSA on September 01, 2008, 05:06:55 pm
Any news if they are going to replace the large dented panels on the outside of BOK center? I was also curious why they did not clean up the water stains all over the building for the event??? Besides those 2 things I was blown away with the BOK Center and love the open feeling on the inside and hope they build up the area around it with a nice hotel, etc.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Porky on September 01, 2008, 05:36:51 pm
quote:
Originally posted by SDTULSA
Any news if they are going to replace the large dented panels on the outside of BOK center?
I saw that as well, here's a picture on some of the damage and there was another area that I saw and it had tire marks on it. So I think it's the lawnmovers that are doing this damage. No biggie, they just need to put a wood chip wide area around the building. My only concern was what would happen if the BOK was hit by a bad hail storm. Maybe they could rig up nets to drop when a storm like that would be incoming? (http://i33.tinypic.com/takig1.jpg)
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Friendly Bear on September 01, 2008, 05:59:15 pm
quote:
Originally posted by SDTULSA
Any news if they are going to replace the large dented panels on the outside of BOK center? I was also curious why they did not clean up the water stains all over the building for the event??? Besides those 2 things I was blown away with the BOK Center and love the open feeling on the inside and hope they build up the area around it with a nice hotel, etc.
Did someone scrimp and buy low-nickel content stainless steel panels? Oh, you say we PAID for high nickel content stainless steel, and someone might have pulled a switcheroo? Hence, already rusting......THAT's certainly iconic. A one day old, $200 million Arena with rust streaks. Bart Boatwright, WHERE are you? Oh, back to working full time for Flintco. Figures.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Porky on September 01, 2008, 07:15:29 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
Did someone scrimp and buy low-nickel content stainless steel panels?
I agree, and I also think that is why there is such a glare from the siding. Hopefully they'll get the right stuff on the side of the building.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: citizen72 on September 01, 2008, 10:23:49 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by SDTULSA
Any news if they are going to replace the large dented panels on the outside of BOK center? I was also curious why they did not clean up the water stains all over the building for the event??? Besides those 2 things I was blown away with the BOK Center and love the open feeling on the inside and hope they build up the area around it with a nice hotel, etc.
Did someone scrimp and buy low-nickel content stainless steel panels?
Oh, you say we PAID for high nickel content stainless steel, and someone might have pulled a switcheroo?
Hence, already rusting......THAT's certainly iconic.
A one day old, $200 million Arena with rust streaks.
Bart Boatwright, WHERE are you?
Oh, back to working full time for Flintco.
Figures.
I surely hope that did not happen. For the want of good management we may be stuck with an inferior product. Submittals and shop drawings my man. Geeeez!
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: atrue67 on September 02, 2008, 01:52:22 am
I have been a lurker on this site for years and learned several things from you all, so thank you!
BOK CENTER...
Awesome facility and very proud it is in Tulsa!
But...
Where is the disabled parking area?
Do I really have to wheel up that huge curved ramp to get to the higher level?
Do I have to park 6 blocks away and hope for decent weather to and from the building?
If I am using my prosthesis instead of a wheelchair, is there a way to get to my seats that are close to the ice/field without walking up and down 50 stairs?
Is this building REALLY up to the proper code for ADA?
All info would be greatly appreciated.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Porky on September 02, 2008, 04:35:00 am
quote:
Originally posted by atrue67
But...
Where is the disabled parking area?
Do I really have to wheel up that huge curved ramp to get to the higher level?
Do I have to park 6 blocks away and hope for decent weather to and from the building?
If I am using my prosthesis instead of a wheelchair, is there a way to get to my seats that are close to the ice/field without walking up and down 50 stairs?
Is this building REALLY up to the proper code for ADA?
All info would be greatly appreciated.
Trust me you don't want to be in the upper level, it's extremely steep. Them youngsters will enjoy it however. They had great wheelchair viewing on the 2nd level. There was also an elevator for them to us near by. Wish I could tell you more.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: sgrizzle on September 02, 2008, 05:06:34 am
quote:
Originally posted by atrue67
I have been a lurker on this site for years and learned several things from you all, so thank you!
BOK CENTER...
Awesome facility and very proud it is in Tulsa!
But...
Where is the disabled parking area?
Do I really have to wheel up that huge curved ramp to get to the higher level?
Do I have to park 6 blocks away and hope for decent weather to and from the building?
If I am using my prosthesis instead of a wheelchair, is there a way to get to my seats that are close to the ice/field without walking up and down 50 stairs?
Is this building REALLY up to the proper code for ADA?
All info would be greatly appreciated.
There is no parking period, therefore no handicap spaces. The area on the south side is meant for drop-off however. You can take the many elevators instead of the ramp. For 80% of the events you can park no more than a block away. For the other 20% you can park and ride the shuttle straight to the BOK Center. I would say if you were considering season tickets to Oilers or Talons you might talk to them about coming in at the event level and walking up instead. At the time of completion, this is the most ADA compliant Arena in the Nation.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: atrue67 on September 02, 2008, 06:00:34 am
Is it seriously that high up on list for ADA?
If there is no parking at all, does it mean they do not have to have anything?
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: sgrizzle on September 02, 2008, 06:37:57 am
quote:
Originally posted by atrue67
Is it seriously that high up on list for ADA?
If there is no parking at all, does it mean they do not have to have anything?
Handicap parking requirements are based on a certain amount of the total parking. So no, they don't have to do anything. The drop-off areas on the south and east sides are above and beyond. Also, ADA only requires that you can attend the events, not access all areas of the building. Handicap access to the upper level is not required as I understand it and therefore many arenas only have stair/escalator access to the upper areas open to the general public. If parking was based on occupancy, they would have to purchase adjoining land to find a place to put them all. Say on average you have two people per car and you need 5% disabled parking. That is 450 parking spots or roughly a city block in surface parking terms. The goal of the city is that a large convention hotel gets built shortly and that hotel would most likely feature it's own parking structure which would then have handicap parking spaces available.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: SJC TUL on September 02, 2008, 04:36:14 pm
Great photos, Porky, Hoss, and AMP!
I was there in the afternoon and took lots of photos. I'm putting some of them online here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ezeiza/tags/bokcentergrandopening/
I'll be putting more photos up in the coming days.
Here's a sample pic:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3120/2813293922_51818638b0_o.jpg") (http://"http://www.flickr.com/photos/ezeiza/2813293922/")
I think it's a magnificent facility.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: mrB on September 02, 2008, 04:45:56 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
...Here are my photos. Not as many as yours, but variety, dontcha know!
BOK Center Grand Opening (http://"http://www.flickr.com/photos/oilerfan/sets/72157607024762196/detail/")
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3230/2811156573_05486face0.jpg?v=0)
Comments
cp9033 says:
Breaking in the new landscaping? I wonder how long it will survive?
Posted 22 hours ago. ( permalink )
oilerfan07 says:
It was a little funny...just after this photo the security guard came by and took care of that. I was glad to see it. We just got done payin' 200 mils for this thing to have everyone trample on it. Probably people that didn't even live in Tulsa county...
Probably the same idiots that think parking on the grass berms around the Fairgrounds during the fair is their God-given-right!
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Hoss on September 02, 2008, 05:08:53 pm
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by atrue67
Is it seriously that high up on list for ADA?
If there is no parking at all, does it mean they do not have to have anything?
Handicap parking requirements are based on a certain amount of the total parking. So no, they don't have to do anything. The drop-off areas on the south and east sides are above and beyond. Also, ADA only requires that you can attend the events, not access all areas of the building. Handicap access to the upper level is not required as I understand it and therefore many arenas only have stair/escalator access to the upper areas open to the general public.
If parking was based on occupancy, they would have to purchase adjoining land to find a place to put them all. Say on average you have two people per car and you need 5% disabled parking. That is 450 parking spots or roughly a city block in surface parking terms.
The goal of the city is that a large convention hotel gets built shortly and that hotel would most likely feature it's own parking structure which would then have handicap parking spaces available.
I can attest to the dropoff area on Denver; I took my mother, who is in a wheelchair, and though I had to wheel her from 100 West (thankfully all downhill), when the time came for us to leave, I decided to take my chances and pull up to the dropoff zone. Worked absolutely fantastic.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: MDepr2007 on September 02, 2008, 05:49:20 pm
quote:
Originally posted by mrB
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
...Here are my photos. Not as many as yours, but variety, dontcha know!
BOK Center Grand Opening (http://"http://www.flickr.com/photos/oilerfan/sets/72157607024762196/detail/")
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3230/2811156573_05486face0.jpg?v=0)
Comments
cp9033 says:
Breaking in the new landscaping? I wonder how long it will survive?
Posted 22 hours ago. ( permalink )
oilerfan07 says:
It was a little funny...just after this photo the security guard came by and took care of that. I was glad to see it. We just got done payin' 200 mils for this thing to have everyone trample on it. Probably people that didn't even live in Tulsa county...
Probably the same idiots that think parking on the grass berms around the Fairgrounds during the fair is their God-given-right!
The Murphy's park on the grass along big splash during the off season [;)] Wonder if they still get to after the city takes over[:D]
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Oil Capital on September 02, 2008, 07:24:32 pm
quote:
There is no parking period, therefore no handicap spaces. The area on the south side is meant for drop-off however.
At the time of completion, this is the most ADA compliant Arena in the Nation.
Isn't ADA compliance yes/no proposition? How can one facility be "more ADA compliant" than another?
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: sgrizzle on September 02, 2008, 08:15:14 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
There is no parking period, therefore no handicap spaces. The area on the south side is meant for drop-off however.
At the time of completion, this is the most ADA compliant Arena in the Nation.
Isn't ADA compliance yes/no proposition? How can one facility be "more ADA compliant" than another?
There is a minimum level to achieve compliance, going above and beyond gives disabled more and easier access.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Oil Capital on September 02, 2008, 09:26:44 pm
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
There is no parking period, therefore no handicap spaces. The area on the south side is meant for drop-off however.
At the time of completion, this is the most ADA compliant Arena in the Nation.
Isn't ADA compliance yes/no proposition? How can one facility be "more ADA compliant" than another?
There is a minimum level to achieve compliance, going above and beyond gives disabled more and easier access.
Like... no parking? It is to laugh. What about the poor handicapped person who drives him/herself to the arena? The dropoff arena doesn't do them much good, does it? Assuming a handicapped person gets over the rather significant access hurdle of actually getting themselves into the arena, how does the arena give them "more and easier access" that would make it "the most ADA compliant arena in the nation?"
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Hoss on September 02, 2008, 09:40:03 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
There is no parking period, therefore no handicap spaces. The area on the south side is meant for drop-off however.
At the time of completion, this is the most ADA compliant Arena in the Nation.
Isn't ADA compliance yes/no proposition? How can one facility be "more ADA compliant" than another?
There is a minimum level to achieve compliance, going above and beyond gives disabled more and easier access.
Like... no parking? It is to laugh.
What about the poor handicapped person who drives him/herself to the arena? The dropoff arena doesn't do them much good, does it?
Assuming a handicapped person gets over the rather significant access hurdle of actually getting themselves into the arena, how does the arena give them "more and easier access" that would make it "the most ADA compliant arena in the nation?"
Hmm..let's see. Did you even go to the open house? Second, as I had to wheel my mother around the arena, I found it EXTREMELY easy to get her where I needed. Elevators were plentiful and not real crowded. Bathrooms were ADA compliant (her sister helped with that, but I inquired as to the ease of use), areas for wheelchairs to park in both bowls were quite easy to get to and she felt very comfortable, more so than anytime she's been to a movie theater, or the last time she had to go the Convention Center (which was my High School Graduation in 1985). She was thrilled to be there and astonished at how easy it was. She hasn't the strength to wheel herself around due to her condition (subdural hematoma about 24 years ago) but she can walk on her own if needed with the aid of a cane. If she had an electronic or powered chair, there would be no problems with her getting around in the arena at all, especially with the foresight of having a ramp to access all three levels of the arena. Hell, these electronic carts I see people using at Wally world would fit anywhere in this building and been able to carry the task out. And if someone drives themselves to the arena that are handicapped, MTTA has already said they will provide a lift van for that service if you call in advance. For that matter, this person wouldn't even need to drive their own vehicle; they could schedule the van to come pick them up. Go figure! That information was in the flyer given out to people who visited the arena on Saturday.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Oil Capital on September 02, 2008, 10:03:39 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
There is no parking period, therefore no handicap spaces. The area on the south side is meant for drop-off however.
At the time of completion, this is the most ADA compliant Arena in the Nation.
Isn't ADA compliance yes/no proposition? How can one facility be "more ADA compliant" than another?
There is a minimum level to achieve compliance, going above and beyond gives disabled more and easier access.
Like... no parking? It is to laugh.
What about the poor handicapped person who drives him/herself to the arena? The dropoff arena doesn't do them much good, does it?
Assuming a handicapped person gets over the rather significant access hurdle of actually getting themselves into the arena, how does the arena give them "more and easier access" that would make it "the most ADA compliant arena in the nation?"
Hmm..let's see. Did you even go to the open house?
Second, as I had to wheel my mother around the arena, I found it EXTREMELY easy to get her where I needed. Elevators were plentiful and not real crowded. Bathrooms were ADA compliant (her sister helped with that, but I inquired as to the ease of use), areas for wheelchairs to park in both bowls were quite easy to get to and she felt very comfortable, more so than anytime she's been to a movie theater, or the last time she had to go the Convention Center (which was my High School Graduation in 1985).
She was thrilled to be there and astonished at how easy it was. She hasn't the strength to wheel herself around due to her condition (subdural hematoma about 24 years ago) but she can walk on her own if needed with the aid of a cane.
If she had an electronic or powered chair, there would be no problems with her getting around in the arena at all, especially with the foresight of having a ramp to access all three levels of the arena. Hell, these electronic carts I see people using at Wally world would fit anywhere in this building and been able to carry the task out.
And if someone drives themselves to the arena that are handicapped, MTTA has already said they will provide a lift van for that service if you call in advance. For that matter, this person wouldn't even need to drive their own vehicle; they could schedule the van to come pick them up. Go figure!
That information was in the flyer given out to people who visited the arena on Saturday.
Hmm..let's see, have you ever been to another recently-constructed arena? None of the features you describe in your post makes the BOK Center in any way different from any other recently-built arena (except that a lot of the others provide convenient handicapped accessible parking.) On the side note you raised, if MTTA vans were the answer to handicapped access, we could do away with all of those special reserved spots at all of the commercial establishments in town; they have convenient drop-off spots too.)
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Hoss on September 02, 2008, 10:45:36 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
There is no parking period, therefore no handicap spaces. The area on the south side is meant for drop-off however.
At the time of completion, this is the most ADA compliant Arena in the Nation.
Isn't ADA compliance yes/no proposition? How can one facility be "more ADA compliant" than another?
There is a minimum level to achieve compliance, going above and beyond gives disabled more and easier access.
Like... no parking? It is to laugh.
What about the poor handicapped person who drives him/herself to the arena? The dropoff arena doesn't do them much good, does it?
Assuming a handicapped person gets over the rather significant access hurdle of actually getting themselves into the arena, how does the arena give them "more and easier access" that would make it "the most ADA compliant arena in the nation?"
Hmm..let's see. Did you even go to the open house?
Second, as I had to wheel my mother around the arena, I found it EXTREMELY easy to get her where I needed. Elevators were plentiful and not real crowded. Bathrooms were ADA compliant (her sister helped with that, but I inquired as to the ease of use), areas for wheelchairs to park in both bowls were quite easy to get to and she felt very comfortable, more so than anytime she's been to a movie theater, or the last time she had to go the Convention Center (which was my High School Graduation in 1985).
She was thrilled to be there and astonished at how easy it was. She hasn't the strength to wheel herself around due to her condition (subdural hematoma about 24 years ago) but she can walk on her own if needed with the aid of a cane.
If she had an electronic or powered chair, there would be no problems with her getting around in the arena at all, especially with the foresight of having a ramp to access all three levels of the arena. Hell, these electronic carts I see people using at Wally world would fit anywhere in this building and been able to carry the task out.
And if someone drives themselves to the arena that are handicapped, MTTA has already said they will provide a lift van for that service if you call in advance. For that matter, this person wouldn't even need to drive their own vehicle; they could schedule the van to come pick them up. Go figure!
That information was in the flyer given out to people who visited the arena on Saturday.
Hmm..let's see, have you ever been to another recently-constructed arena? None of the features you describe in your post makes the BOK Center in any way different from any other recently-built arena (except that a lot of the others provide convenient handicapped accessible parking.)
On the side note you raised, if MTTA vans were the answer to handicapped access, we could do away with all of those special reserved spots at all of the commercial establishments in town; they have convenient drop-off spots too.)
You conveniently avoided answering my question. Did you go? And on my side note, you're comparing apples to oranges there. Smaller establishments absolutely need the parking; you wouldn't shuttle someone 20 feet to the door, now would you? Shall I talk to the lady I know at work who parks in a handicapped spot and tell her since she comes in at 10 pm, she'll have to park 300 yards away from the door, but so sorry, you'll need to get in by yourself. That's just plain stupid. And I have been to the Ford Center, CenturyTel Arena in Bossier City (Shreveport) Louisiana, ScottTrade Center in St. Louis, all within the last three years...shall I continue? NONE of these buildings had the ease of access for the handicapped as this building does. NONE. Sure, you could get in, but it was much narrower in the concourses, the handicapped seating was not near as accessible, and it lacked elevator space. They all had plenty of elevators, but you need to take into account that these elevators need to be a little oversized to handle the hardware. Not only that, but only one of these buildings had a surface parking lot with disabled parking; yet that parking was still, distance-wise, comparable to walking a city block. The other two had NO adjoining parking (ScottTrade, Ford Center), at least at the time I went. Ford may have joining parking garage now, but I haven't been since they did. And if it sounds like I get sensitive about the issue, you're damn right I do. I see people on a daily basis park in handicapped parking spots with no reason to do so. I've confronted people on it. I suspect they're in the same situation I am (care for a person who is disabled and have the placard to hang) and use it to their advantage. Sometimes they don't even hang a placard. I don't know who is worse.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Chris on September 02, 2008, 11:25:54 pm
How I saw it.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2824204692_003f2b7d83_b.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/2824212210_485d9cd74b_b.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3221/2823395233_a217ddb800_b.jpg)
lots more... (http://"http://www.flickr.com/photos/30210287@N08/sets/72157607082690698/")
I really wish the timestamps were gone but I had to borrow someone else's camera and didn't know it was on.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Porky on September 03, 2008, 05:03:22 am
quote:
Originally posted by SJC TUL
I was there in the afternoon and took lots of photos. I'm putting some of them online here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ezeiza/tags/bokcentergrandopening/
I'll be putting more photos up in the coming days.
Awesome pictures, Steven. Wish there was a way I could see what settings you were using on those indoor shots........absolutely incredible! [8D]
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: tulsacyclist on September 03, 2008, 07:29:38 am
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by SJC TUL
I was there in the afternoon and took lots of photos. I'm putting some of them online here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ezeiza/tags/bokcentergrandopening/
I'll be putting more photos up in the coming days.
Awesome pictures, Steven. Wish there was a way I could see what settings you were using on those indoor shots........absolutely incredible! [8D]
Actually, you can see the EXIF data if you see an image you like in his stream just click on it, then click on 'More properties' which is on the bottom right under 'Additional Information'. That will show shutter speed, aperture, iso sensitivity settings, focal length, etc.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Hoss on September 03, 2008, 07:32:21 am
quote:
Originally posted by tulsacyclist
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by SJC TUL
I was there in the afternoon and took lots of photos. I'm putting some of them online here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ezeiza/tags/bokcentergrandopening/
I'll be putting more photos up in the coming days.
As long as the submitter hasn't edited the photo with a package that strips the EXIF out. Most don't anymore, but Photoshop in one of it's incarnations had a nasty habit of doing that. I don't alter ANY of the images I upload. Probably to my detriment, but if I like them well enough, I'll alter them then and have prints made.
Awesome pictures, Steven. Wish there was a way I could see what settings you were using on those indoor shots........absolutely incredible! [8D]
Actually, you can see the EXIF data if you see an image you like in his stream just click on it, then click on 'More properties' which is on the bottom right under 'Additional Information'. That will show shutter speed, aperture, iso sensitivity settings, focal length, etc.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Porky on September 03, 2008, 03:55:56 pm
Thanks for letting me know. Been checking it out and have learned a lot from it.
Everyone's pictures on here are really awesome. One of the things I find remarkable with Steven's pictures are the perspective he shoots them in. It truly adds to his already great photography skills.
To learn is to learn by others, can't get enough if it!!!! [^]
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: SJC TUL on September 03, 2008, 03:58:19 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
Awesome pictures, Steven. Wish there was a way I could see what settings you were using on those indoor shots........absolutely incredible! [8D]
Thank you, Porky! As tulsacyclist mentioned, you can see the settings in the EXIF data. Hoss: I resize and watermark my photos in Photoshop before posting them to Flickr. I don't know if this applies to all versions of Photoshop, but "Save As..." preserves EXIF data, while "Save for Web & Devices..." strips it out. I've put more photos up just now: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ezeiza/tags/bokcentergrandopening/
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Friendly Bear on September 03, 2008, 06:01:59 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
There is no parking period, therefore no handicap spaces. The area on the south side is meant for drop-off however.
At the time of completion, this is the most ADA compliant Arena in the Nation.
Isn't ADA compliance yes/no proposition? How can one facility be "more ADA compliant" than another?
There is a minimum level to achieve compliance, going above and beyond gives disabled more and easier access.
Like... no parking? It is to laugh.
What about the poor handicapped person who drives him/herself to the arena? The dropoff arena doesn't do them much good, does it?
Assuming a handicapped person gets over the rather significant access hurdle of actually getting themselves into the arena, how does the arena give them "more and easier access" that would make it "the most ADA compliant arena in the nation?"
Hmm..let's see. Did you even go to the open house?
Second, as I had to wheel my mother around the arena, I found it EXTREMELY easy to get her where I needed. Elevators were plentiful and not real crowded. Bathrooms were ADA compliant (her sister helped with that, but I inquired as to the ease of use), areas for wheelchairs to park in both bowls were quite easy to get to and she felt very comfortable, more so than anytime she's been to a movie theater, or the last time she had to go the Convention Center (which was my High School Graduation in 1985).
She was thrilled to be there and astonished at how easy it was. She hasn't the strength to wheel herself around due to her condition (subdural hematoma about 24 years ago) but she can walk on her own if needed with the aid of a cane.
If she had an electronic or powered chair, there would be no problems with her getting around in the arena at all, especially with the foresight of having a ramp to access all three levels of the arena. Hell, these electronic carts I see people using at Wally world would fit anywhere in this building and been able to carry the task out.
And if someone drives themselves to the arena that are handicapped, MTTA has already said they will provide a lift van for that service if you call in advance. For that matter, this person wouldn't even need to drive their own vehicle; they could schedule the van to come pick them up. Go figure!
That information was in the flyer given out to people who visited the arena on Saturday.
Hmm..let's see, have you ever been to another recently-constructed arena? None of the features you describe in your post makes the BOK Center in any way different from any other recently-built arena (except that a lot of the others provide convenient handicapped accessible parking.)
On the side note you raised, if MTTA vans were the answer to handicapped access, we could do away with all of those special reserved spots at all of the commercial establishments in town; they have convenient drop-off spots too.)
You conveniently avoided answering my question. Did you go?
And on my side note, you're comparing apples to oranges there. Smaller establishments absolutely need the parking; you wouldn't shuttle someone 20 feet to the door, now would you? Shall I talk to the lady I know at work who parks in a handicapped spot and tell her since she comes in at 10 pm, she'll have to park 300 yards away from the door, but so sorry, you'll need to get in by yourself. That's just plain stupid.
And I have been to the Ford Center, CenturyTel Arena in Bossier City (Shreveport) Louisiana, ScottTrade Center in St. Louis, all within the last three years...shall I continue? NONE of these buildings had the ease of access for the handicapped as this building does. NONE. Sure, you could get in, but it was much narrower in the concourses, the handicapped seating was not near as accessible, and it lacked elevator space. They all had plenty of elevators, but you need to take into account that these elevators need to be a little oversized to handle the hardware. Not only that, but only one of these buildings had a surface parking lot with disabled parking; yet that parking was still, distance-wise, comparable to walking a city block. The other two had NO adjoining parking (ScottTrade, Ford Center), at least at the time I went. Ford may have joining parking garage now, but I haven't been since they did.
And if it sounds like I get sensitive about the issue, you're damn right I do. I see people on a daily basis park in handicapped parking spots with no reason to do so. I've confronted people on it. I suspect they're in the same situation I am (care for a person who is disabled and have the placard to hang) and use it to their advantage. Sometimes they don't even hang a placard. I don't know who is worse.
NO handicapped parking at the BOK Arena? Wonder if the reason was that Mayor Taylor didn't want to have to actually be around any cripples?? Mid-town elitists don't have any cripples in their families; they're all perfect. Group Think 101.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Hoss on September 03, 2008, 06:24:16 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
There is no parking period, therefore no handicap spaces. The area on the south side is meant for drop-off however.
At the time of completion, this is the most ADA compliant Arena in the Nation.
Isn't ADA compliance yes/no proposition? How can one facility be "more ADA compliant" than another?
There is a minimum level to achieve compliance, going above and beyond gives disabled more and easier access.
Like... no parking? It is to laugh.
What about the poor handicapped person who drives him/herself to the arena? The dropoff arena doesn't do them much good, does it?
Assuming a handicapped person gets over the rather significant access hurdle of actually getting themselves into the arena, how does the arena give them "more and easier access" that would make it "the most ADA compliant arena in the nation?"
Hmm..let's see. Did you even go to the open house?
Second, as I had to wheel my mother around the arena, I found it EXTREMELY easy to get her where I needed. Elevators were plentiful and not real crowded. Bathrooms were ADA compliant (her sister helped with that, but I inquired as to the ease of use), areas for wheelchairs to park in both bowls were quite easy to get to and she felt very comfortable, more so than anytime she's been to a movie theater, or the last time she had to go the Convention Center (which was my High School Graduation in 1985).
She was thrilled to be there and astonished at how easy it was. She hasn't the strength to wheel herself around due to her condition (subdural hematoma about 24 years ago) but she can walk on her own if needed with the aid of a cane.
If she had an electronic or powered chair, there would be no problems with her getting around in the arena at all, especially with the foresight of having a ramp to access all three levels of the arena. Hell, these electronic carts I see people using at Wally world would fit anywhere in this building and been able to carry the task out.
And if someone drives themselves to the arena that are handicapped, MTTA has already said they will provide a lift van for that service if you call in advance. For that matter, this person wouldn't even need to drive their own vehicle; they could schedule the van to come pick them up. Go figure!
That information was in the flyer given out to people who visited the arena on Saturday.
Hmm..let's see, have you ever been to another recently-constructed arena? None of the features you describe in your post makes the BOK Center in any way different from any other recently-built arena (except that a lot of the others provide convenient handicapped accessible parking.)
On the side note you raised, if MTTA vans were the answer to handicapped access, we could do away with all of those special reserved spots at all of the commercial establishments in town; they have convenient drop-off spots too.)
You conveniently avoided answering my question. Did you go?
And on my side note, you're comparing apples to oranges there. Smaller establishments absolutely need the parking; you wouldn't shuttle someone 20 feet to the door, now would you? Shall I talk to the lady I know at work who parks in a handicapped spot and tell her since she comes in at 10 pm, she'll have to park 300 yards away from the door, but so sorry, you'll need to get in by yourself. That's just plain stupid.
And I have been to the Ford Center, CenturyTel Arena in Bossier City (Shreveport) Louisiana, ScottTrade Center in St. Louis, all within the last three years...shall I continue? NONE of these buildings had the ease of access for the handicapped as this building does. NONE. Sure, you could get in, but it was much narrower in the concourses, the handicapped seating was not near as accessible, and it lacked elevator space. They all had plenty of elevators, but you need to take into account that these elevators need to be a little oversized to handle the hardware. Not only that, but only one of these buildings had a surface parking lot with disabled parking; yet that parking was still, distance-wise, comparable to walking a city block. The other two had NO adjoining parking (ScottTrade, Ford Center), at least at the time I went. Ford may have joining parking garage now, but I haven't been since they did.
And if it sounds like I get sensitive about the issue, you're damn right I do. I see people on a daily basis park in handicapped parking spots with no reason to do so. I've confronted people on it. I suspect they're in the same situation I am (care for a person who is disabled and have the placard to hang) and use it to their advantage. Sometimes they don't even hang a placard. I don't know who is worse.
NO handicapped parking at the BOK Arena?
Wonder if the reason was that Mayor Taylor didn't want to have to actually be around any cripples??
Mid-town elitists don't have any cripples in their families; they're all perfect.
Group Think 101.
Poor, poor bear. He must need to hibernate...
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Tulsa Twister on September 03, 2008, 07:24:11 pm
All i can say is wow x3.........
This facility is absolutely phenomenal. Ill be coming back to visit my folks next summer and ill make sure i pay a visit downtown to see this gem up close.
I can imagine Mr Pelli receiving several inquiries from other larger cities that will need to construct new arenas, theaters or museums to replace aging ones.
This is..........got now words. Damn!! Be proud to have a cutting edge design thats like no other, thats functional. Cant wait til its shopped on postcards.
I dont care what anybody says about this building.........its a premium arena !!!
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: AVERAGE JOE on September 03, 2008, 09:06:00 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
NO handicapped parking at the BOK Arena?
Wonder if the reason was that Mayor Taylor didn't want to have to actually be around any cripples??
Mid-town elitists don't have any cripples in their families; they're all perfect.
Group Think 101.
That is easily the stupidest post you've ever made. And that's saying something. Judging which of your posts is the dumbest is like determining the biggest turd an elephant has dropped. This latest turd of yours would cover up a mid-sized sedan.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Hoss on September 03, 2008, 09:24:12 pm
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
NO handicapped parking at the BOK Arena?
Wonder if the reason was that Mayor Taylor didn't want to have to actually be around any cripples??
Mid-town elitists don't have any cripples in their families; they're all perfect.
Group Think 101.
That is easily the stupidest post you've ever made. And that's saying something. Judging which of your posts is the dumbest is like determining the biggest turd an elephant has dropped. This latest turd of yours would cover up a mid-sized sedan.
Yep, the last person that made light of a handicapped person that I saw was an OKC Blazer hockey player two seasons ago. I take that stuff pretty seriously, since my mother is handicapped and has been since she was my age (about 40). If I'd had the means to get over that fence at the time, I would have been in the newspaper the very next day. That, I could guarantee you of. So FB escaped my wrath this evening. I could have been a hell of a lot meaner (and for me that's sayin something).
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: AMP on September 03, 2008, 11:57:42 pm
Anyone find the answers to these questions?
Anyone have any specs on the Arena such as the dimensions of the cargo doors that enter the floor at the BOK Arena?
Heigth, Width?
Are they a straight shot outside with no turns?
Dimensions of the floor in feet? Not square fee the length and width.
Load limit, per square foot, on the arena floor that has the icing system inside it?
Can you drive a semi tractor with trailer, full size dump truck or skid loader onto the arena floor?
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: sgrizzle on September 04, 2008, 09:21:34 am
AMP, check your PM
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Friendly Bear on September 04, 2008, 09:56:50 am
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
NO handicapped parking at the BOK Arena?
Wonder if the reason was that Mayor Taylor didn't want to have to actually be around any cripples??
Mid-town elitists don't have any cripples in their families; they're all perfect.
Group Think 101.
That is easily the stupidest post you've ever made. And that's saying something. Judging which of your posts is the dumbest is like determining the biggest turd an elephant has dropped. This latest turd of yours would cover up a mid-sized sedan.
Bombs away?
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: shadows on September 06, 2008, 09:14:16 pm
FB: such a statements concerning lack of proper required handicap parking at the BOK ARENA FOR THE ELITE is very discouraging to those who have disabilities restricting their movements.
By making such statements it will possibility in the future keep you from a wide in the wittle jet airplane.
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Hoss on September 06, 2008, 09:52:35 pm
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
FB: such a statements concerning lack of proper required handicap parking at the BOK ARENA FOR THE ELITE is very discouraging to those who have disabilities restricting their movements.
By making such statements it will possibility in the future keep you from a wide in the wittle jet airplane.
Don't worry. FB was educated by Republican Party values. If it's not white anglo saxon protestant, it's not worth walking on the face of the earth. Oh, I forgot, that includes the ability to walk. God forbit you can't walk on your own. I wonder if he ever gets out of his basement? [:O] [}:)] [:P]
Title: BOK Center - Open House
Post by: Friendly Bear on September 06, 2008, 10:08:05 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
FB: such a statements concerning lack of proper required handicap parking at the BOK ARENA FOR THE ELITE is very discouraging to those who have disabilities restricting their movements.
By making such statements it will possibility in the future keep you from a wide in the wittle jet airplane.
Don't worry. FB was educated by Republican Party values. If it's not white anglo saxon protestant, it's not worth walking on the face of the earth. Oh, I forgot, that includes the ability to walk. God forbit you can't walk on your own.
I wonder if he ever gets out of his basement?
[:O]
[}:)]
[:P]
Yes, I got out many years ago. I had a one-night stand with a Mrs. Cartwright? I promised to respect her in the morning. I still do. Son??
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