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Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: Townsend on September 12, 2008, 09:05:55 am If true this is the sort of stuff I can't tolerate.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap_on_el_pr/palin_librarian;_ylt=AmNcYA5ySTIKIMk7CVYs2_Bh24cA GOP campaign downplays Palin book-banning inquiry By GARANCE BURKE, Associated Press Writer The McCain campaign is defending Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's much-criticized inquiry into banning books at her hometown library, saying her questions were only hypothetical. Shortly after taking office in 1996 as mayor of Wasilla, a city of about 7,000 people, Palin asked the city's head librarian about banning books. Later, the librarian was notified by Palin that she was being fired, although Palin backed off under pressure. Palin alleged attempt at book-banning has been a matter of intense interest since Republican presidential nominee John McCain named her as his running mate last month. Taylor Griffin, a spokesman for the McCain campaign, said Thursday that Palin asked the head librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, on three occasions how she would react to attempts at banning books. He said the questions, in the fall of 1996, were hypothetical and entirely appropriate. He said a patron had asked the library to remove a title the year before and the mayor wanted to understand how such disputes were handled. Records on the city's Web site, however, do not show any books were challenged in Wasilla in the 10 years before Palin took office. Palin notified Emmons she would be fired in January 1997 because the mayor didn't feel she had the librarian's "full support." Emmons was reinstated the next day after public outcry, according to newspaper reports at the time. Still, one longtime library staffer recalls that the run-in made everyone fear for their jobs. "Mayor Palin gave us some terrible moments and some rather gut-wrenching moments, particularly when Mary Ellen said she was going to have to leave," said Cathy Petrie, who managed the children's collection at the time. Recent outrage has been fueled by Wasilla housewife Anne Kilkenny, whose 2,400-word critique of Palin's legacy as mayor is widely posted on the Internet. Kilkenny described Palin's actions as "out-and-out censorship." But the McCain campaign, in a statement, said the charge "is categorically false ... Governor Sarah Palin has never asked anyone to ban a book, period." Emmons, a former Alaska Library Association president who now goes by Mary Ellen Baker, did not return calls seeking comment. According to the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman newspaper, Emmons did not mince words when Palin asked her "how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library" on Oct. 28, 1996, in a week when the mayor had asked department heads for letters of resignation. "She asked me if I would object to censorship, and I replied 'Yup'," Emmons told a reporter. "And I told her it would not be just me. This was a constitutional question, and the American Civil Liberties Union would get involved, too." The Rev. Howard Bess, a liberal Christian preacher in the nearby town of Palmer, said the church Palin and her family attended until 2002, the Wasilla Assembly of God, was pushing to remove his book from local bookstores. Emmons told him that year that several copies of "Pastor I Am Gay" had disappeared from the library shelves, Bess said. "Sarah brought pressure on the library about things she didn't like," Bess said. "To believe that my book was not targeted in this is a joke." Other locals said the dust-up had been blown out of proportion. "That was many years ago and Sarah never had any intention to ban books," said David Chappel, who served as Palin's deputy mayor for three years. "There were some vocal people in the minority, and it looks like they're still out there." Jim Rettig, a University of Richmond librarian who heads the Chicago-based American Library Association, suggested that lingering quarrel raises issues that are still relevant as librarians prepare to celebrate Banned Books Week later this month. "Librarians are very committed to the principles of the First Amendment of the Constitution and that means we don't allow one individual or a group of people to dictate what people can or cannot read," he said. "Most librarians if they got that sort of a question would be curious as to what the intent of the questioner was." (This version CORRECTS that ALA is based in Chicago, not in Richmond, Va.) Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: RecycleMichael on September 12, 2008, 09:13:27 am People who read books think they are so smart.
Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: Gaspar on September 12, 2008, 09:40:25 am Way behind. That was originally posted on a liberal blog the day after she was chosen as VP candidate.
It was since refuted by the very librarian that they claim was threatened. This AP story is strange. It makes no claim to new evidence, just seems to bring the topic back up. I guess they want to keep it in the news. Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: Townsend on September 12, 2008, 09:52:27 am quote: Good to know. Can you post the article where she refuted it? I'd like to know what she had to say about it. Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: swake on September 12, 2008, 09:54:22 am quote: She hasn't, and more came out about it just yesterday: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/11/politics/animal/main4439414.shtml Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: waterboy on September 12, 2008, 10:00:12 am quote: Not exactly true. Check this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVAXaJ-SHo8&feature=related It is an ABC story that debunked the rumor that a list of books had been listed for banning. But not the questioning of the librarian. She was questioned in a city hall meeting by Palin about what her response to banning books would be. She said she would refuse any efforts since they were decided upon using national professional standards. Shortly later, Palin tried to fire her. Palin says it was an unrelated matter, others suggest it was merging a museum with the library. At the time the librarian felt otherwise. But nowhere is it reported that she denied the incident happened or felt pressure, only that there was a list. The librarian left two years later citing difficulty in working for Palin as the reason. Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: Townsend on September 12, 2008, 10:17:07 am And so I'm back to where I was...that sort of stuff scares the crap out of me. I picture large gatherings with bon fires and storm troopers keeping the rest of us back.
I'm out. Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: Gaspar on September 12, 2008, 10:39:59 am More info.
From Anchorage Daily news According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn’t fully support her and had to go. Emmons had been city librarian for seven years and was well liked. After a wave of public support for her, Palin relented and let Emmons keep her job. It all happened 12 years ago and the controversy long ago disappeared into musty files. Until this week. Under intense national scrutiny, the issue has returned to dog her. It has been mentioned in news stories in Time Magazine and The New York Times and is spreading like a virus through the blogosphere. The stories are all suggestive, but facts are hard to come by. Did Palin actually ban books at the Wasilla Public Library? …Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association’s Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed. Pinell-Stephens also had no record of any phone conversations with Emmons about the issue back then. Emmons was president of the Alaska Library Association at the time. She also fired dozens of other township officials on this day. They were all political opponents of hers, and appointees of previous administrations. This is standard practice when a new mayor or other elected official takes office. I don't see any teeth here, especially since the list mentioned in the origional story has proven to be a fabrication by liberal forum poster identified as “Andrew Aucoin." Here's the fake list if you're interested: A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L’Engle Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner Blubber by Judy Blume Brave New World by Aldous Huxley Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson Canterbury Tales by Chaucer Carrie by Stephen King Catch-22 by Joseph Heller Christine by Stephen King Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau Cujo by Stephen King Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen Daddy’s Roommate by Michael Willhoite Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller Decameron by Boccaccio East of Eden by John Steinbeck Fallen Angels by Walter Myers Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes Forever by Judy Blume Grendel by John Champlin Gardner Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling Have to Go by Robert Munsch Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou Impressions edited by Jack Booth In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak It’s Okay if You Don’t Love Me by Norma Klein James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl Lady Chatterley’s Lover by D.H. Lawrence Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm Lord of the Flies by William Golding Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein Lysistrata by Aristophanes More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier My House by Nikki Giovanni My Friend Flicka by Mary O’Hara Night Chills by Dean Koontz Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest by Ken Kesey One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez Ordinary People by Judith Guest Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women’s Health Collective Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz Separate Peace by John Knowles Silas Marner by George Eliot Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain The Bastard by John Jakes The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier The Color Purple by Alice Walker The Devil’s Alternative by Frederick Forsyth The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks The Living Bible by William C. Bower The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman The Pigman by Paul Zindel The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders The Shining by Stephen King The Witches by Roald Dahl The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder Then Again, Maybe I Won’t by Judy Blume To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth Includes some of my favs! Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: swake on September 12, 2008, 10:45:11 am quote: Fire the librarian in a town of 7,000 people, smaller than Glenpool, for being a political opponent? Really? You think that sounds reasonable and Ok? Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: swake on September 12, 2008, 10:52:38 am Can you imagine the howls of outrage that would come if Taylor were to fire the head of the Tulsa Library system for simply being a republican? Or any department heads at all? And Tulsa is something like 50 times larger.
Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: tim huntzinger on September 12, 2008, 10:55:28 am That shows Executive experience, Swake, sheesh . . .
Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: swake on September 12, 2008, 10:57:28 am quote: Check out the massive facility that this political opponent was in charge of. (http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/shake2005/library.jpg) Man, she may have been responsible for as many as two or even three employees. Can't have some hothead Democrat or Methodist running a big operation like that.... Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: Gaspar on September 12, 2008, 10:58:15 am Perhaps that's a poor practice that should be more deeply scrutinized.
Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: Friendly Bear on September 12, 2008, 10:58:53 am quote: Just imagine: A Mayor firing someone from a previous administration.....how quaint. Didn't Mayor Taylor fire several from the city attorneys office, and bring in her own: Deidre Dexter. This whole story is a stinking, Obama's Mama inspired RED HERRING. NO books were ever banned. Name ONE..... Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: swake on September 12, 2008, 11:04:42 am quote: But the librarian was fired. And as for the Tulsa city attorneys, weren’t they fired for cause for not discovering that the Great Plains deal was illegal and that they didn’t even bother to present a defense or try to settle a lawsuit that cost the city more than $10 million? Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: Friendly Bear on September 12, 2008, 11:20:15 am quote: What kind of self-pious pomposity thinks they know better how they can run a town in Wasilla Alaska from Jenks, Oklahoma? Someone who's be challenged running a kindergarten picnic? Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: Gaspar on September 12, 2008, 11:25:34 am I didn't realize there were still libraries since Algore invented the internet.
Buy Amazon, read book, sell Amazon, big a$$ never leaves chair. Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: FOTD on September 12, 2008, 11:27:03 am Friendly Bear needs to change his moniker to Friendly Bear Crap.
Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: swake on September 12, 2008, 11:36:04 am quote: Oh noes! A Personal Attack! Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: FOTD on September 12, 2008, 12:13:12 pm The devil went after the inerds of his posts and not his faux person....
Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: carltonplace on September 12, 2008, 12:15:43 pm Why would she even broach that subject? Why would she ask someone what they thought about book banning? Really? Really-really?
They say there are strangers who threaten us, Our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness to danger us In our theatres and bookstore shelves, That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves. Quick to judge, Quick to anger, Slow to understand Ignorance and prejudice And fear walk hand in hand Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: Hoss on September 12, 2008, 12:24:12 pm quote: That would never come from the 'Quadruped of the People'! Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: waterboy on September 12, 2008, 12:39:53 pm It was an indefensible act no matter how long ago. I would like to chalk it up to her naivete in dealing with subordinates but many here think her experience is substantial so it must be arrogance.
Banning books wasn't her intention and is a red herring of gigantic proportions. She wanted to put people in positions that would do the book shelf editting without direction. One of the clan. Imagine, looking down from your position as mayor of the town and asking the town librarian, "Would you remove books from the library shelves if directed to?" and not knowing what kind of position that puts the librarian in? The librarian is probably the smartest person in town and stood up to the pressure. She should have been made mayor at that point. Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: carltonplace on September 12, 2008, 12:44:22 pm That's even worse. I've worked for people like that before..I know the type. Brrrr.
Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: USRufnex on September 12, 2008, 01:46:01 pm Now, why would a card-carrying member of the Assemblies of God church do such a thing?!?
Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: swake on September 12, 2008, 02:19:57 pm Hey, she’s not the brightest bulb in the box, she said on national television that maybe it would be a good idea to go to war with Russia over Georgia.
To be fair maybe she’s thinking it’s the Georgia with all the streets named after peaches. Or maybe she’s not aware that Russia has all those old Soviet nukes and that it might really not be the best plan of action to go to war with Russia. You know, what with it likely leading to the end of the world and all. Oh wait, her church is all sure we are at the end of days anyway. Maybe it does all make sense. Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: iplaw on September 12, 2008, 02:24:57 pm For anyone interested in reading an unbiased report of the facts here you go:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: iplaw on September 12, 2008, 02:26:07 pm quote:Is she as bright as the bulb that wanted to take the issue to the UN where Russia holds veto power? Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: Hoss on September 12, 2008, 02:32:29 pm quote: Just don't forget to read ALL of that website. Like this: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccain-palin_distorts_our_finding.html And this: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html How about this: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_mccain.html Let's not forget: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/a_new_stitch_in_a_bad_pattern.html So if you're gonna cherry-pick (granted this is about the Palin book-banning), let's work both sides of the aisle here. Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: swake on September 12, 2008, 02:36:34 pm quote: Here's the full text of the facts from your very own link. It's not flattering at all of Palin: One accusation claims then-Mayor Palin threatened to fire Wasilla’s librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly attempted to ban. Actually, Palin never asked that books be banned; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication. The librarian was fired, but was told only that Palin felt she didn’t support her. She was re-hired the next day. The librarian never claimed that Palin threatened outright to fire her for refusing to ban books. It’s true that Palin did raise the issue with Mary Ellen Emmons, Wasilla’s librarian, on at least two occasions, three in some versions. Emmons flatly stated her opposition each time. But, as the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman (Wasilla’s local paper) reported at the time, Palin asked general questions about what Emmons would say if Palin requested that a book be banned. According to Emmons, Palin "was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library." Emmons reported that Palin pressed the issue, asking whether Emmons' position would change if residents were picketing the library. Wasilla resident Anne Kilkenny, who was at the meeting, corroborates Emmons' story, telling the Chicago Tribune that "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?' " Palin characterized the exchange differently, initially volunteering the episode as an example of discussions with city employees about following her administration's agenda. Palin described her questions to Emmons as “rhetorical,” noting that her questions "were asked in the context of professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city." Actually, true rhetorical questions have implied answers (e.g., “Who do you think you are?”), so Palin probably meant to describe her questions as hypothetical or theoretical. We can't read minds, so it is impossible for us to know whether or not Palin may actually have wanted to ban books from the library or whether she simply wanted to know how her new employees would respond to an instruction from their boss. It is worth noting that, in an update, the Frontiersman points out that no book was ever banned from the library’s shelves. Palin initially requested Emmons’ resignation, along with those of Wasilla’s other department heads, in October 1996. Palin described the requests as a loyalty test and allowed all of them (except one, whose department she was eliminating) to retain their positions. But in January 1997, Palin fired Emmons, along with the police chief. According to the Chicago Tribune, Palin did not list censorship as a reason for Emmons’ firing, but said she didn’t feel she had Emmons’ support. The decision caused “a stir” in the small town, according to a newspaper account at the time. According to a widely circulated e-mail from Kilkenny, “city residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin’s attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter.” As we’ve noted, Palin did not attempt to ban any library books. We don’t know if Emmons’ resistance to Palin’s questions about possible censorship had anything to do with Emmons’ firing. And we have no idea if the protests had any impact on Palin at all. There simply isn’t any evidence that we can find either way. Palin did re-hire Emmons the following day, saying that she now felt she had the librarian’s backing. Emmons continued to serve as librarian until August 1999, when the Chicago Tribune reports that she resigned. Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: USRufnex on September 12, 2008, 02:47:32 pm Palin asked city librarian whether she'd ban books
But there's no proof she had any removed Anchorage Daily News September 7, 2008 By Rindi White http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-palin-book_bdsep07,0,3537053.story WASILLA, Alaska — Back in 1996, when she became mayor, Sarah Palin asked the city librarian if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so. According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason. After a wave of public support on Emmons' behalf, Palin relented and let her keep her job. It all happened 12 years ago, and the controversy long ago disappeared. Until last week. Under intense national scrutiny, the issue has returned to dog Palin. But did Palin actually ban books at the Wasilla Public Library? In December 1996, Emmons told her hometown newspaper, the Frontiersman, that Palin three times asked her—starting before she was sworn in—about possibly removing objectionable books from the library if the need arose. Emmons told the Frontiersman she flatly refused to consider censorship. Emmons, now Mary Ellen Baker, is on vacation from her current job in Fairbanks and did not respond to messages left for her. When the matter came up for the second time in October 1996, during a City Council meeting, Anne Kilkenny, a Wasilla housewife who often attends council meetings, was there. "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?' " Kilkenny said. "I was shocked. Mary Ellen sat up straight and said something along the line of, 'The books in the Wasilla Library collection were selected on the basis of national selection criteria for libraries of this size, and I would absolutely resist all efforts to ban books.' " Palin didn't mention specific books at that meeting, Kilkenny said. At the time Palin called her inquiries rhetorical and simply part of a policy discussion, according to the Frontiersman article. Were any books banned? June Pinnell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files last week and came up empty-handed. Pinnell-Stephens also had no record of any phone conversations with Emmons about the issue back then. Emmons was president of the Alaska Library Association at the time. Books may not have been pulled from library shelves, but there were other repercussions for Emmons. Four days before the exchange at the City Council, Emmons got a letter from Palin asking for her resignation. Similar letters went to Police Chief Irl Stambaugh, public works director Jack Felton and finance director Duane Dvorak. John Cooper, a fifth director, resigned after Palin eliminated his job overseeing the city museum. Palin told the Anchorage Daily News then that the letters were just a test of loyalty as she took on the mayor's job, which she'd won from three-term mayor John Stein in a hard-fought election. Stein had hired many of the department heads. Both Emmons and Stambaugh had publicly supported him against Palin. Emmons survived the loyalty test and a second one a few months later. She resigned in August 1999, two months before Palin was voted in for a second mayoral term. Title: Book banning scares the crap out of me Post by: iplaw on September 14, 2008, 03:49:41 pm quote:What parts of the story are "unflattering?" |