Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: Kashmir on October 06, 2008, 08:28:04 am
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2008/thumbs/20081001_tsa1001p3_thumb.jpg)
I forgot to add last week that this really weirds me out. I'm all for flight safety and safe skies, but not so much for giving the security dude some jollies. But at least we are still a country of choice:
Passengers can still choose to have physical pat-downs.
Hooray![xx(]
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectID=45&articleID=20081001_45_E1_Michae884565
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: MDepr2007 on October 06, 2008, 12:23:01 pm
You can thank your local airport director for it. He volunteered to have Tulsa test it for TSA and then spent airport $ to get it wired just for you lucky Tulsans.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: sgrizzle on October 06, 2008, 12:34:14 pm
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
You can thank your local airport director for it. He volunteered to have Tulsa test it for TSA and then spent airport $ to get it wired just for you lucky Tulsans.
We have a new high-tech alternative to be patted down, we're one of the first to get it and the cost of security equipment is highly subsidized by the feds so cost to TIA is near zero. What are we complaining about again?
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: Hoss on October 06, 2008, 12:57:38 pm
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
You can thank your local airport director for it. He volunteered to have Tulsa test it for TSA and then spent airport $ to get it wired just for you lucky Tulsans.
We have a new high-tech alternative to be patted down, we're one of the first to get it and the cost of security equipment is highly subsidized by the feds so cost to TIA is near zero.
What are we complaining about again?
In true Tulsa fashion, we're complaining....wait for it now....just to complain. [:D]
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: Kashmir on October 06, 2008, 01:11:22 pm
I'm just complaining about the creepy naked body image, just go to the World link and enlarge the pic...ewww.
My younger brother asked if they are hiring for that scanner person job, or as he called it "Single out the Hot Chicks to scan" job. Perv.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: Gaspar on October 06, 2008, 01:31:07 pm
I'm all for it. Not because it has the ability to be more efficient, but because it has the potential to hold the screener's attention better. "Hey look, naked people!"
Last year, we traveled to Houston to Houston on a leg of our vacation and on the way back, the screener in Houston (the one looking at the x-ray of our carry-on luggage. Was. . .
ASLEEP!
Seriously, she was sitting right there on her stool in front of the monitor dozing off. The two other screeners, aiding people through the line, on the front and rear of the metal detector were completely aware of the fact that she was nodding off, and seemed not to be concerned.
I guess now that the screening machinery automatically alerts you to dangerous materials and shapes, you no longer need to be conscious to operate it.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: Ed W on October 06, 2008, 03:01:34 pm
I think about this, and then I consider the cucumber-in-the-pants scene from This is Spinal Tap. hmmm.....
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: Townsend on October 06, 2008, 04:12:51 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Ed W
I think about this, and then I consider the cucumber-in-the-pants scene from This is Spinal Tap. hmmm.....
As you move around the cucumber starts to get bruised then mushy...the cucumber juice then becomes a conversation starter. I'd skip it.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: inteller on October 06, 2008, 08:52:04 pm
I bet if you look at the cities they implemented this in, most of them are probably conservative bastions, far removed from ACLU strongholds. I'm sure they found a bunch of regular "patriots" here in Tulsa who would do anything to help their country fight terrorism.
Let me guess, these are porbably made by Diebold. So in one fell swoop they can scan you for bombs, withdraw all the cash out of your bank account, and change your vote to republican.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: MDepr2007 on October 06, 2008, 09:38:29 pm
hmm and we've seen a need for this why?
Much easier to take a plane down a few miles from the airport with a rocket launcher, while setting in an apartment complex. Inbetween robbing someone of course as you'll have plenty of time ;)
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: TheArtist on October 06, 2008, 09:55:03 pm
Great, I almost always get double checked or my luggage checked. Will we be allowed to "fluff and adjust" before we get our pic taken? [:D] If one is to be violated, might as well look ones best.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: nathanm on October 07, 2008, 04:17:39 am
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
I bet if you look at the cities they implemented this in, most of them are probably conservative bastions, far removed from ACLU strongholds. I'm sure they found a bunch of regular "patriots" here in Tulsa who would do anything to help their country fight terrorism.
Let me guess, these are porbably made by Diebold. So in one fell swoop they can scan you for bombs, withdraw all the cash out of your bank account, and change your vote to republican.
Hmm..I must say, TSA should be commended for one thing. They made me agree with inteller! [:D] Seriously, though, this is one of the reasons why I don't fly anymore. Before and just after 9/11 (before they went truly ape**** after Richard Reid) I was platinum with AA. Now I fly less than 3k a year commercially. I don't feel the need to be essentially strip searched. (or patted down regularly, for that matter) Between the ridiculous security theater 'take off your shoes,' 'no don't take off your shoes if you use our bomb sniffing machine,' 'no take your shoes off and let us xray them even though the bomb sniffing machine can actually sniff bombs, unlike the xray machine,' and on and on, the service cutbacks, and everything else, I just don't enjoy it so much anymore. Maybe I'm still pissed about them taking my crimping tool away in Feb '02 or whenever it was. I got the cops called on me at DFW for daring question the screener and asking for the ground security coordinator, who it turned out was drunk at like 10 in the morning. The screener claimed I had threatened her. Thankfully, my business associate was around to dispute her interpretation of events. It turned out the (classified, but I got to see in anyway!) handbook listed 'tools' as forbidden, and went on to specify things like hammers, saws, shears, and other heavy or sharp items. I guess I should have called it a 'crimper.' I was stupid and called it a crimping tool. That was before they started doing the super sekrit sekurity search. The whole thing is corporate welfare for the companies making metal detectors, x ray machines, and other ridiculously expensive contraptions, now that we have to have 5 times as many of the cheap things and buy a few new things that are five times as expensive for every airport and a budget grab within the government. And that part can't even be blamed on Bush..just his crony Congress.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: TUalum0982 on October 07, 2008, 06:41:28 am
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
I bet if you look at the cities they implemented this in, most of them are probably conservative bastions, far removed from ACLU strongholds. I'm sure they found a bunch of regular "patriots" here in Tulsa who would do anything to help their country fight terrorism.
Let me guess, these are porbably made by Diebold. So in one fell swoop they can scan you for bombs, withdraw all the cash out of your bank account, and change your vote to republican.
Hmm..I must say, TSA should be commended for one thing. They made me agree with inteller! [:D]
Seriously, though, this is one of the reasons why I don't fly anymore. Before and just after 9/11 (before they went truly ape**** after Richard Reid) I was platinum with AA. Now I fly less than 3k a year commercially. I don't feel the need to be essentially strip searched. (or patted down regularly, for that matter)
Between the ridiculous security theater 'take off your shoes,' 'no don't take off your shoes if you use our bomb sniffing machine,' 'no take your shoes off and let us xray them even though the bomb sniffing machine can actually sniff bombs, unlike the xray machine,' and on and on, the service cutbacks, and everything else, I just don't enjoy it so much anymore.
Maybe I'm still pissed about them taking my crimping tool away in Feb '02 or whenever it was. I got the cops called on me at DFW for daring question the screener and asking for the ground security coordinator, who it turned out was drunk at like 10 in the morning. The screener claimed I had threatened her. Thankfully, my business associate was around to dispute her interpretation of events.
It turned out the (classified, but I got to see in anyway!) handbook listed 'tools' as forbidden, and went on to specify things like hammers, saws, shears, and other heavy or sharp items. I guess I should have called it a 'crimper.' I was stupid and called it a crimping tool.
That was before they started doing the super sekrit sekurity search.
The whole thing is corporate welfare for the companies making metal detectors, x ray machines, and other ridiculously expensive contraptions, now that we have to have 5 times as many of the cheap things and buy a few new things that are five times as expensive for every airport and a budget grab within the government.
And that part can't even be blamed on Bush..just his crony Congress.
exaggeration somewhat?? It isn't as bad as you make it seem. You take off your shoes, belt, empty pockets, and go through. It takes all of 2 minutes. I am glad you are no longer flying. I have been stuck behind people like you at Security who do nothing but *****, complain and moan about "why do I have to do this, that and this. This is America." Let me be the first to say "Thank You" for not flying anymore so I can get through security that much quicker!!
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: sgrizzle on October 07, 2008, 07:12:46 am
I travel with a laptop and get through in around a minute unless I'm waiting behind the old lady arguing about her 64oz bottle of Suave or something like that.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: Kashmir on October 07, 2008, 07:20:21 am
I went through with 2 small kids alone and they essentially waved me through the "family" line at DFW, sippy cups, water bottle and all.
I think they just wanted me outta there!
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: RedskinRich on October 07, 2008, 11:48:35 am
Just a thought. If the images cannot be save as has been mentioned in the news, then where did these images posted come from?[?]
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: TheArtist on October 07, 2008, 12:20:00 pm
quote:
Originally posted by RedskinRich
Just a thought. If the images cannot be save as has been mentioned in the news, then where did these images posted come from?[?]
From a similar machine in which the image could be saved.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: Hoss on October 07, 2008, 12:23:10 pm
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
quote:
Originally posted by RedskinRich
Just a thought. If the images cannot be save as has been mentioned in the news, then where did these images posted come from?[?]
From a similar machine in which the image could be saved.
Or maybe from a demo presentation? I'm sure customers would want to see what they're getting before hand.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: nathanm on October 07, 2008, 02:49:55 pm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
exaggeration somewhat?? It isn't as bad as you make it seem. You take off your shoes, belt, empty pockets, and go through. It takes all of 2 minutes. I am glad you are no longer flying. I have been stuck behind people like you at Security who do nothing but *****, complain and moan about "why do I have to do this, that and this. This is America." Let me be the first to say "Thank You" for not flying anymore so I can get through security that much quicker!!
Everything I wrote is true. And I haven't delayed anyone, ever. They have secondary screening for malcontents like me. I was one of the poo poo heads who wouldn't take off his shoes, until they made it really and truly mandatory. And yes, I'm quite aware of the routine. I just used to not go through the removal of the belt and shoes. I actually used to remain dressed. Go figure. Never set off the alarm, either, as they were calibrated sanely. You should have seen it just after 9/11. A freaking button would set half the metal detectors in the nation off. They dialed those things up so high you could hear them humming. (now I'm exaggerating..about the humming) Some of us were bright enough to wear clothing that wouldn't make the metal detector go off so we didn't have to undress. Now that's not an option. This bothers me. I have a strange feeling you are one of those who never flew before security theater went into full swing. You probably didn't witness the arbitrary institution of ridiculous rules and procedures, only to vanish a few months later because the public wouldn't stand for having their underwear searched at the gate. You probably didn't see the ridiculousness of automatic weapon toting National Guardsmen wandering around airport terminals. You've probably also never had anything of value taken from you or broken by them. And maybe not even arbitrarily searched. Of course, I was ususally gunning for the secondary screening. I want to waste their money and their time, not yours. About the only good ever to come of it for me is a TSA screener recognizing my Flyertalk bag tag (yes, I'm one of those people) and sparking a conversation about how ridiculous both the rules are and how people wrongly direct their ire at the individual screeners, who are mostly fine people, and not the higher ups that make up the ridiculous rules. Either way, it wasn't all roses before they went nutso, but it was a damn sight better than it is now. They were still mostly doing useful things rather than comforting things. (Oh, I forgot the "let's make 'em all federals.." "Oops, no let's privatize some of them, they're too expensive!" screener flip-flop) And I guess I should mention that rational people realize that combining binary explosives on a plane is damn-near impossible, yet still we can't take liquids through the security checkpoint. But somehow, we leave the back door open and sell drinks in the terminal. Do you honestly believe that every single bottle of liquid that goes in there is actually inspected? I guess we can thank the bomb plot that wasn't for that. It's all an enormous waste of money.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: TUalum0982 on October 07, 2008, 03:10:23 pm
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
exaggeration somewhat?? It isn't as bad as you make it seem. You take off your shoes, belt, empty pockets, and go through. It takes all of 2 minutes. I am glad you are no longer flying. I have been stuck behind people like you at Security who do nothing but *****, complain and moan about "why do I have to do this, that and this. This is America." Let me be the first to say "Thank You" for not flying anymore so I can get through security that much quicker!!
Everything I wrote is true. And I haven't delayed anyone, ever. They have secondary screening for malcontents like me. I was one of the poo poo heads who wouldn't take off his shoes, until they made it really and truly mandatory.
And yes, I'm quite aware of the routine. I just used to not go through the removal of the belt and shoes. I actually used to remain dressed. Go figure. Never set off the alarm, either, as they were calibrated sanely. You should have seen it just after 9/11. A freaking button would set half the metal detectors in the nation off. They dialed those things up so high you could hear them humming. (now I'm exaggerating..about the humming)
Some of us were bright enough to wear clothing that wouldn't make the metal detector go off so we didn't have to undress. Now that's not an option. This bothers me.
I have a strange feeling you are one of those who never flew before security theater went into full swing. You probably didn't witness the arbitrary institution of ridiculous rules and procedures, only to vanish a few months later because the public wouldn't stand for having their underwear searched at the gate. You probably didn't see the ridiculousness of automatic weapon toting National Guardsmen wandering around airport terminals. You've probably also never had anything of value taken from you or broken by them. And maybe not even arbitrarily searched. Of course, I was ususally gunning for the secondary screening. I want to waste their money and their time, not yours.
About the only good ever to come of it for me is a TSA screener recognizing my Flyertalk bag tag (yes, I'm one of those people) and sparking a conversation about how ridiculous both the rules are and how people wrongly direct their ire at the individual screeners, who are mostly fine people, and not the higher ups that make up the ridiculous rules.
Either way, it wasn't all roses before they went nutso, but it was a damn sight better than it is now. They were still mostly doing useful things rather than comforting things.
(Oh, I forgot the "let's make 'em all federals.." "Oops, no let's privatize some of them, they're too expensive!" screener flip-flop)
And I guess I should mention that rational people realize that combining binary explosives on a plane is damn-near impossible, yet still we can't take liquids through the security checkpoint. But somehow, we leave the back door open and sell drinks in the terminal. Do you honestly believe that every single bottle of liquid that goes in there is actually inspected?
I guess we can thank the bomb plot that wasn't for that. It's all an enormous waste of money.
you remind me of the guy I was behind at security in NY trying to get on the ferry to the Statue of Liberty. He had a pocketknife and they gave him two options....throw it away or go put it in your car. His response "you mean I have to go walk all the way back to my car...you can't just hold onto it or something?" The officer quickly answered "NO, I gave you the two options you have." The guy asked again in a more stern voice...."are you kidding me, there is no holding spot? You can't just hold this until we are done?" He was quickly detained and taken somewhere else. Which brings me to this...is it worth that much trouble? Take the damn knife back to your car and end of story. I do remember the days before 9/11. I remember going to the airport gate every Sun night saying goodbye to my dad, and returning to that same gate the following Fri to greet him when he returned from a weeks work. I remember going up and down looking at all the planes. I remember going through a metal detector that was being watched by some 75yr old guy who could barely see and hold his head up. You might not like the rules, but just like a kid in school, you are expected to follow them. If you don't and act stubborn about it, you will have to face the consequences like the gentleman that I mentioned above had to. The airline companies aren't forcing you to fly, so if you don't like the rules, then just drive. Problem solved. I hate to bring you down from your cloud, but you can't be that important, that you can't take 1 or 2 minutes out of your "very important" day to follow the proper procedure of going through the screening process. It might not be a perfect system, but thats the way it is. If you don't like it, don't fly!
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: nathanm on October 07, 2008, 04:19:09 pm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
exaggeration somewhat?? It isn't as bad as you make it seem. You take off your shoes, belt, empty pockets, and go through. It takes all of 2 minutes. I am glad you are no longer flying. I have been stuck behind people like you at Security who do nothing but *****, complain and moan about "why do I have to do this, that and this. This is America." Let me be the first to say "Thank You" for not flying anymore so I can get through security that much quicker!!
Everything I wrote is true. And I haven't delayed anyone, ever. They have secondary screening for malcontents like me. I was one of the poo poo heads who wouldn't take off his shoes, until they made it really and truly mandatory.
And yes, I'm quite aware of the routine. I just used to not go through the removal of the belt and shoes. I actually used to remain dressed. Go figure. Never set off the alarm, either, as they were calibrated sanely. You should have seen it just after 9/11. A freaking button would set half the metal detectors in the nation off. They dialed those things up so high you could hear them humming. (now I'm exaggerating..about the humming)
Some of us were bright enough to wear clothing that wouldn't make the metal detector go off so we didn't have to undress. Now that's not an option. This bothers me.
I have a strange feeling you are one of those who never flew before security theater went into full swing. You probably didn't witness the arbitrary institution of ridiculous rules and procedures, only to vanish a few months later because the public wouldn't stand for having their underwear searched at the gate. You probably didn't see the ridiculousness of automatic weapon toting National Guardsmen wandering around airport terminals. You've probably also never had anything of value taken from you or broken by them. And maybe not even arbitrarily searched. Of course, I was ususally gunning for the secondary screening. I want to waste their money and their time, not yours.
About the only good ever to come of it for me is a TSA screener recognizing my Flyertalk bag tag (yes, I'm one of those people) and sparking a conversation about how ridiculous both the rules are and how people wrongly direct their ire at the individual screeners, who are mostly fine people, and not the higher ups that make up the ridiculous rules.
Either way, it wasn't all roses before they went nutso, but it was a damn sight better than it is now. They were still mostly doing useful things rather than comforting things.
(Oh, I forgot the "let's make 'em all federals.." "Oops, no let's privatize some of them, they're too expensive!" screener flip-flop)
And I guess I should mention that rational people realize that combining binary explosives on a plane is damn-near impossible, yet still we can't take liquids through the security checkpoint. But somehow, we leave the back door open and sell drinks in the terminal. Do you honestly believe that every single bottle of liquid that goes in there is actually inspected?
I guess we can thank the bomb plot that wasn't for that. It's all an enormous waste of money.
you remind me of the guy I was behind at security in NY trying to get on the ferry to the Statue of Liberty. He had a pocketknife and they gave him two options....throw it away or go put it in your car. His response "you mean I have to go walk all the way back to my car...you can't just hold onto it or something?" The officer quickly answered "NO, I gave you the two options you have." The guy asked again in a more stern voice...."are you kidding me, there is no holding spot? You can't just hold this until we are done?" He was quickly detained and taken somewhere else. Which brings me to this...is it worth that much trouble? Take the damn knife back to your car and end of story.
I do remember the days before 9/11. I remember going to the airport gate every Sun night saying goodbye to my dad, and returning to that same gate the following Fri to greet him when he returned from a weeks work. I remember going up and down looking at all the planes. I remember going through a metal detector that was being watched by some 75yr old guy who could barely see and hold his head up.
You might not like the rules, but just like a kid in school, you are expected to follow them. If you don't and act stubborn about it, you will have to face the consequences like the gentleman that I mentioned above had to.
The airline companies aren't forcing you to fly, so if you don't like the rules, then just drive. Problem solved. I hate to bring you down from your cloud, but you can't be that important, that you can't take 1 or 2 minutes out of your "very important" day to follow the proper procedure of going through the screening process. It might not be a perfect system, but thats the way it is. If you don't like it, don't fly!
Your post reminds me of the "if you don't like the way our country is run, leave!" crowd. It's blatantly idiotic. I hope you don't apply that same line of thinking to the rest of your life. And just FWIW, I don't take weapons onto planes. I once tried to take a tool onto an airplane. Of course, that was back when the entire list was secret. They wouldn't tell you anything beyond "whatever we don't want you to have." Regardless, if they were only taking away pocket knives and other weapons at security checkpoints, I wouldn't have an issue, but they aren't. They're going far beyond that just to make a the nervous nellies happy. Of course, they won't really be happy until we all have to strip naked and submit to a cavity search before boarding an airplane. Besides, comparing airport security to school, that's pretty juvenile. We're all adults, we should act like adults and be treated like adults.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: shadows on October 07, 2008, 04:37:15 pm
This nasty old man is for the new security where the picture of the screening will show if the passenger is with bra or without bra or if it is uplift or padded or a new fangled designed one. As soon as the images are available on internet “Playboy will lose.”
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: TUalum0982 on October 07, 2008, 05:09:56 pm
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
exaggeration somewhat?? It isn't as bad as you make it seem. You take off your shoes, belt, empty pockets, and go through. It takes all of 2 minutes. I am glad you are no longer flying. I have been stuck behind people like you at Security who do nothing but *****, complain and moan about "why do I have to do this, that and this. This is America." Let me be the first to say "Thank You" for not flying anymore so I can get through security that much quicker!!
Everything I wrote is true. And I haven't delayed anyone, ever. They have secondary screening for malcontents like me. I was one of the poo poo heads who wouldn't take off his shoes, until they made it really and truly mandatory.
And yes, I'm quite aware of the routine. I just used to not go through the removal of the belt and shoes. I actually used to remain dressed. Go figure. Never set off the alarm, either, as they were calibrated sanely. You should have seen it just after 9/11. A freaking button would set half the metal detectors in the nation off. They dialed those things up so high you could hear them humming. (now I'm exaggerating..about the humming)
Some of us were bright enough to wear clothing that wouldn't make the metal detector go off so we didn't have to undress. Now that's not an option. This bothers me.
I have a strange feeling you are one of those who never flew before security theater went into full swing. You probably didn't witness the arbitrary institution of ridiculous rules and procedures, only to vanish a few months later because the public wouldn't stand for having their underwear searched at the gate. You probably didn't see the ridiculousness of automatic weapon toting National Guardsmen wandering around airport terminals. You've probably also never had anything of value taken from you or broken by them. And maybe not even arbitrarily searched. Of course, I was ususally gunning for the secondary screening. I want to waste their money and their time, not yours.
About the only good ever to come of it for me is a TSA screener recognizing my Flyertalk bag tag (yes, I'm one of those people) and sparking a conversation about how ridiculous both the rules are and how people wrongly direct their ire at the individual screeners, who are mostly fine people, and not the higher ups that make up the ridiculous rules.
Either way, it wasn't all roses before they went nutso, but it was a damn sight better than it is now. They were still mostly doing useful things rather than comforting things.
(Oh, I forgot the "let's make 'em all federals.." "Oops, no let's privatize some of them, they're too expensive!" screener flip-flop)
And I guess I should mention that rational people realize that combining binary explosives on a plane is damn-near impossible, yet still we can't take liquids through the security checkpoint. But somehow, we leave the back door open and sell drinks in the terminal. Do you honestly believe that every single bottle of liquid that goes in there is actually inspected?
I guess we can thank the bomb plot that wasn't for that. It's all an enormous waste of money.
you remind me of the guy I was behind at security in NY trying to get on the ferry to the Statue of Liberty. He had a pocketknife and they gave him two options....throw it away or go put it in your car. His response "you mean I have to go walk all the way back to my car...you can't just hold onto it or something?" The officer quickly answered "NO, I gave you the two options you have." The guy asked again in a more stern voice...."are you kidding me, there is no holding spot? You can't just hold this until we are done?" He was quickly detained and taken somewhere else. Which brings me to this...is it worth that much trouble? Take the damn knife back to your car and end of story.
I do remember the days before 9/11. I remember going to the airport gate every Sun night saying goodbye to my dad, and returning to that same gate the following Fri to greet him when he returned from a weeks work. I remember going up and down looking at all the planes. I remember going through a metal detector that was being watched by some 75yr old guy who could barely see and hold his head up.
You might not like the rules, but just like a kid in school, you are expected to follow them. If you don't and act stubborn about it, you will have to face the consequences like the gentleman that I mentioned above had to.
The airline companies aren't forcing you to fly, so if you don't like the rules, then just drive. Problem solved. I hate to bring you down from your cloud, but you can't be that important, that you can't take 1 or 2 minutes out of your "very important" day to follow the proper procedure of going through the screening process. It might not be a perfect system, but thats the way it is. If you don't like it, don't fly!
Your post reminds me of the "if you don't like the way our country is run, leave!" crowd. It's blatantly idiotic. I hope you don't apply that same line of thinking to the rest of your life.
And just FWIW, I don't take weapons onto planes. I once tried to take a tool onto an airplane. Of course, that was back when the entire list was secret. They wouldn't tell you anything beyond "whatever we don't want you to have." Regardless, if they were only taking away pocket knives and other weapons at security checkpoints, I wouldn't have an issue, but they aren't. They're going far beyond that just to make a the nervous nellies happy. Of course, they won't really be happy until we all have to strip naked and submit to a cavity search before boarding an airplane.
Besides, comparing airport security to school, that's pretty juvenile. We're all adults, we should act like adults and be treated like adults.
You are right on one point...we are all adults, but does everyone act like one? definitely not! I witness it everyday, where adults are acting like juveniles! Either way, you have your opinion, I have mine. If you don't like the system, oh well, all I can say is thanks for the empty seat on the plane because I know have more room to stretch and relax. I don't have the thinking about our country that you mentioned above, but I can tell you I am tired about people pissing and moaning over minor annoyances in life that are there for a reason and are in place for a reason. Once again, if you don't like it, no one is making you fly. But to go from flying all these miles every year to 3K over some very minor security changes is IMO VERY JUVENILE on your part.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: MDepr2007 on October 07, 2008, 05:33:08 pm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
exaggeration somewhat?? It isn't as bad as you make it seem. You take off your shoes, belt, empty pockets, and go through. It takes all of 2 minutes. I am glad you are no longer flying. I have been stuck behind people like you at Security who do nothing but *****, complain and moan about "why do I have to do this, that and this. This is America." Let me be the first to say "Thank You" for not flying anymore so I can get through security that much quicker!!
Everything I wrote is true. And I haven't delayed anyone, ever. They have secondary screening for malcontents like me. I was one of the poo poo heads who wouldn't take off his shoes, until they made it really and truly mandatory.
And yes, I'm quite aware of the routine. I just used to not go through the removal of the belt and shoes. I actually used to remain dressed. Go figure. Never set off the alarm, either, as they were calibrated sanely. You should have seen it just after 9/11. A freaking button would set half the metal detectors in the nation off. They dialed those things up so high you could hear them humming. (now I'm exaggerating..about the humming)
Some of us were bright enough to wear clothing that wouldn't make the metal detector go off so we didn't have to undress. Now that's not an option. This bothers me.
I have a strange feeling you are one of those who never flew before security theater went into full swing. You probably didn't witness the arbitrary institution of ridiculous rules and procedures, only to vanish a few months later because the public wouldn't stand for having their underwear searched at the gate. You probably didn't see the ridiculousness of automatic weapon toting National Guardsmen wandering around airport terminals. You've probably also never had anything of value taken from you or broken by them. And maybe not even arbitrarily searched. Of course, I was ususally gunning for the secondary screening. I want to waste their money and their time, not yours.
About the only good ever to come of it for me is a TSA screener recognizing my Flyertalk bag tag (yes, I'm one of those people) and sparking a conversation about how ridiculous both the rules are and how people wrongly direct their ire at the individual screeners, who are mostly fine people, and not the higher ups that make up the ridiculous rules.
Either way, it wasn't all roses before they went nutso, but it was a damn sight better than it is now. They were still mostly doing useful things rather than comforting things.
(Oh, I forgot the "let's make 'em all federals.." "Oops, no let's privatize some of them, they're too expensive!" screener flip-flop)
And I guess I should mention that rational people realize that combining binary explosives on a plane is damn-near impossible, yet still we can't take liquids through the security checkpoint. But somehow, we leave the back door open and sell drinks in the terminal. Do you honestly believe that every single bottle of liquid that goes in there is actually inspected?
I guess we can thank the bomb plot that wasn't for that. It's all an enormous waste of money.
you remind me of the guy I was behind at security in NY trying to get on the ferry to the Statue of Liberty. He had a pocketknife and they gave him two options....throw it away or go put it in your car. His response "you mean I have to go walk all the way back to my car...you can't just hold onto it or something?" The officer quickly answered "NO, I gave you the two options you have." The guy asked again in a more stern voice...."are you kidding me, there is no holding spot? You can't just hold this until we are done?" He was quickly detained and taken somewhere else. Which brings me to this...is it worth that much trouble? Take the damn knife back to your car and end of story.
I do remember the days before 9/11. I remember going to the airport gate every Sun night saying goodbye to my dad, and returning to that same gate the following Fri to greet him when he returned from a weeks work. I remember going up and down looking at all the planes. I remember going through a metal detector that was being watched by some 75yr old guy who could barely see and hold his head up.
You might not like the rules, but just like a kid in school, you are expected to follow them. If you don't and act stubborn about it, you will have to face the consequences like the gentleman that I mentioned above had to.
The airline companies aren't forcing you to fly, so if you don't like the rules, then just drive. Problem solved. I hate to bring you down from your cloud, but you can't be that important, that you can't take 1 or 2 minutes out of your "very important" day to follow the proper procedure of going through the screening process. It might not be a perfect system, but thats the way it is. If you don't like it, don't fly!
Your post reminds me of the "if you don't like the way our country is run, leave!" crowd. It's blatantly idiotic. I hope you don't apply that same line of thinking to the rest of your life.
And just FWIW, I don't take weapons onto planes. I once tried to take a tool onto an airplane. Of course, that was back when the entire list was secret. They wouldn't tell you anything beyond "whatever we don't want you to have." Regardless, if they were only taking away pocket knives and other weapons at security checkpoints, I wouldn't have an issue, but they aren't. They're going far beyond that just to make a the nervous nellies happy. Of course, they won't really be happy until we all have to strip naked and submit to a cavity search before boarding an airplane.
Besides, comparing airport security to school, that's pretty juvenile. We're all adults, we should act like adults and be treated like adults.
You are right on one point...we are all adults, but does everyone act like one? definitely not! I witness it everyday, where adults are acting like juveniles! Either way, you have your opinion, I have mine. If you don't like the system, oh well, all I can say is thanks for the empty seat on the plane because I know have more room to stretch and relax.
I don't have the thinking about our country that you mentioned above, but I can tell you I am tired about people pissing and moaning over minor annoyances in life that are there for a reason and are in place for a reason. Once again, if you don't like it, no one is making you fly. But to go from flying all these miles every year to 3K over some very minor security changes is IMO VERY JUVENILE on your part.
Then there is the other group who are the " Yes mommy dearest , whatever you say" that in reality can't think for themselves and just go on what they hear
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: nathanm on October 07, 2008, 09:08:37 pm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
But to go from flying all these miles every year to 3K over some very minor security changes is IMO VERY JUVENILE on your part.
It's called putting your money where your mouth is. Exactly the opposite of juvenile. My SO would certainly prefer it if she could get me on an airplane whenever she pleased, but I'm not going to be harassed and treated like a criminal and pay for the privilege. And seriously, if you think the security changes are minor, you really have no idea what you're talking about. An hour to an hour and a half of my time wasted each round trip isn't minor. Besides, a Lear gets me there a whole hell of a lot faster. :D Of course, if it was my money, I couldn't afford to fly on the private jet.. [V] Still, it's nice being able to avoid undressing myself, risking catching somebody's foot fungus, and being unable to carry everything I need on the plane. I very much enjoyed not being at the whim of the baggage handlers. I could take myself, my clothes, my toiletries, and the equipment I need to work on the plane. It was nice being able to use telephone checkin back when the agents hardly knew about it.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: TUalum0982 on October 08, 2008, 07:56:02 am
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
But to go from flying all these miles every year to 3K over some very minor security changes is IMO VERY JUVENILE on your part.
It's called putting your money where your mouth is. Exactly the opposite of juvenile. My SO would certainly prefer it if she could get me on an airplane whenever she pleased, but I'm not going to be harassed and treated like a criminal and pay for the privilege.
And seriously, if you think the security changes are minor, you really have no idea what you're talking about. An hour to an hour and a half of my time wasted each round trip isn't minor.
Besides, a Lear gets me there a whole hell of a lot faster. :D
Of course, if it was my money, I couldn't afford to fly on the private jet.. [V]
Still, it's nice being able to avoid undressing myself, risking catching somebody's foot fungus, and being unable to carry everything I need on the plane. I very much enjoyed not being at the whim of the baggage handlers. I could take myself, my clothes, my toiletries, and the equipment I need to work on the plane. It was nice being able to use telephone checkin back when the agents hardly knew about it.
How on earth is an hour to an hour and a half wasted on each round trip? I have flown into and out of Atlanta Hartsfield, Sky Harbor, Lindbergh in San Diego, Intercontinental, Newark, Ohare, Denver, Dulles, Kansas City and St Louis and have never wasted an hour or an hour and a half. Anyways, like I said before. we will agree to disagree. Maybe you should take some time off and take a trip to Hawaii on your Lear. Tell the folks at Atlantic, Tulsa Air, Mr Hardesty at US Aviation, Sparks or the people at bizjet hello for me when you do. Come to think of it, when I was in NY 2 weeks ago, I didn't really like the way the officer patted me down and looked at me. Maybe I should look into filing sexual assault or rape charges....Better yet, I will just call up NetJets so I can bypass all of that, after all, its only money right!
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: nathanm on October 08, 2008, 10:43:42 am
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
But to go from flying all these miles every year to 3K over some very minor security changes is IMO VERY JUVENILE on your part.
It's called putting your money where your mouth is. Exactly the opposite of juvenile. My SO would certainly prefer it if she could get me on an airplane whenever she pleased, but I'm not going to be harassed and treated like a criminal and pay for the privilege.
And seriously, if you think the security changes are minor, you really have no idea what you're talking about. An hour to an hour and a half of my time wasted each round trip isn't minor.
Besides, a Lear gets me there a whole hell of a lot faster. :D
Of course, if it was my money, I couldn't afford to fly on the private jet.. [V]
Still, it's nice being able to avoid undressing myself, risking catching somebody's foot fungus, and being unable to carry everything I need on the plane. I very much enjoyed not being at the whim of the baggage handlers. I could take myself, my clothes, my toiletries, and the equipment I need to work on the plane. It was nice being able to use telephone checkin back when the agents hardly knew about it.
How on earth is an hour to an hour and a half wasted on each round trip? I have flown into and out of Atlanta Hartsfield, Sky Harbor, Lindbergh in San Diego, Intercontinental, Newark, Ohare, Denver, Dulles, Kansas City and St Louis and have never wasted an hour or an hour and a half.
I used to be able to arrive at the airport half an hour before a flight and have no problem making it on the flight on time. Now I have to be there an hour in advance at most airports. Sometimes that's barely enough, so I can't cut it much closer, as much as I would like to. I used to be able to carry on everything I needed, avoiding wasting my time in line at the ticket counter and at baggage claim after arrival. That's a minimum of 30 minutes wasted each way, more if the baggage handlers are slow. As I mentioned before, it isn't my Lear, I just get to fly on it for work and I don't fly for any personal reasons anymore, except perhaps once a year. I have better things to do with my time and money. Sadly, people like you are willing to lie down and put up with their BS and still feed airlines the money, so they aren't making a stink about it either.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: TUalum0982 on October 08, 2008, 10:56:19 am
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
But to go from flying all these miles every year to 3K over some very minor security changes is IMO VERY JUVENILE on your part.
It's called putting your money where your mouth is. Exactly the opposite of juvenile. My SO would certainly prefer it if she could get me on an airplane whenever she pleased, but I'm not going to be harassed and treated like a criminal and pay for the privilege.
And seriously, if you think the security changes are minor, you really have no idea what you're talking about. An hour to an hour and a half of my time wasted each round trip isn't minor.
Besides, a Lear gets me there a whole hell of a lot faster. :D
Of course, if it was my money, I couldn't afford to fly on the private jet.. [V]
Still, it's nice being able to avoid undressing myself, risking catching somebody's foot fungus, and being unable to carry everything I need on the plane. I very much enjoyed not being at the whim of the baggage handlers. I could take myself, my clothes, my toiletries, and the equipment I need to work on the plane. It was nice being able to use telephone checkin back when the agents hardly knew about it.
How on earth is an hour to an hour and a half wasted on each round trip? I have flown into and out of Atlanta Hartsfield, Sky Harbor, Lindbergh in San Diego, Intercontinental, Newark, Ohare, Denver, Dulles, Kansas City and St Louis and have never wasted an hour or an hour and a half.
I used to be able to arrive at the airport half an hour before a flight and have no problem making it on the flight on time. Now I have to be there an hour in advance at most airports. Sometimes that's barely enough, so I can't cut it much closer, as much as I would like to.
I used to be able to carry on everything I needed, avoiding wasting my time in line at the ticket counter and at baggage claim after arrival.
That's a minimum of 30 minutes wasted each way, more if the baggage handlers are slow.
As I mentioned before, it isn't my Lear, I just get to fly on it for work and I don't fly for any personal reasons anymore, except perhaps once a year. I have better things to do with my time and money. Sadly, people like you are willing to lie down and put up with their BS and still feed airlines the money, so they aren't making a stink about it either.
I am not laying down about anything. I just have more priorities in my life then to *****, piss and moan about an extra 2 minutes waiting in line to board a plane. That is my only beef. I don't even know why we are arguing about it, since you have the company plane and dont worry about the hassles of us everyday folks! Over time, things change. Change for the most part is good. If one doesn't accept change, then they get left in the dark. I used to be able to fill my car up for 12.50, not anymore. In college, I used to wake up at 1130 for a 12 noon class. I now work at 530AM. I used to be able to pee outside in the yard as a child, now its a crime and I have to register as a sex offender. I used to drive on the highway doing 65mph and I was driving 10mph over the speed limit, now that is the norm. Things never remain the same, whether good or bad. Do you see where I am going with this?
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: Kashmir on October 08, 2008, 11:04:17 am
Crap! All I was saying is that I thought the x-ray boobies were a little too clear, as for the "foil wrapped zucchini."
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2008/20081001_tsa1001p3.jpg)
But really, I guess the upside is everyone looks like a hot robot.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: TUalum0982 on October 08, 2008, 11:11:20 am
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
Crap! All I was saying is that I thought the x-ray boobies were a little too clear, as for the "foil wrapped zucchini."
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2008/20081001_tsa1001p3.jpg)
But really, I guess the upside is everyone looks like a hot robot.
I just get tired of pissing and moaning about minor annoyances in their lives, yet it turns out he doesn't even fly commercial, so why is he *****ing? I am being accused of rolling over simply by following the rules!
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: MDepr2007 on October 08, 2008, 06:51:11 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
Crap! All I was saying is that I thought the x-ray boobies were a little too clear, as for the "foil wrapped zucchini."
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2008/20081001_tsa1001p3.jpg)
But really, I guess the upside is everyone looks like a hot robot.
Thats the old model , the new one is much more detailed...
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: Townsend on October 09, 2008, 09:18:17 am
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
Crap! All I was saying is that I thought the x-ray boobies were a little too clear, as for the "foil wrapped zucchini."
But really, I guess the upside is everyone looks like a hot robot.
Thats the old model , the new one is much more detailed...
Got something to substantiate?
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: nathanm on October 09, 2008, 12:00:22 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
Got something to substantiate?
There are two types of this sort of scanner. Millimeter wave, which is what TSA claims to be using, and backscatter xray. They're both tantamount to strip search. Google Images is your friend if you want to see examples.
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: TURobY on October 09, 2008, 12:23:20 pm
I can save money just by walking through naked. [:P]
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: Townsend on October 09, 2008, 12:59:10 pm
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
There are two types of this sort of scanner. Millimeter wave, which is what TSA claims to be using, and backscatter xray. They're both tantamount to strip search.
Google Images is your friend if you want to see examples.
Time to switch my foil helmet and wear it on my other head. He listens to the voices too. edit - the pics are a tad creepy
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: nathanm on October 09, 2008, 03:52:34 pm
quote:
Originally posted by TURobY
I can save money just by walking through naked. [:P]
Ironic that you'd be arrested for doing that. [:P]
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: jne on October 10, 2008, 11:20:31 am
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TURobY
I can save money just by walking through naked. [:P]
Ironic that you'd be arrested for doing that. [:P]
That would be a great flash mob stunt. Imagine standing in the security line at the airport and half the people around you all suddenly disrobe and pile there things on the conveyor belt. Its probably a federal offense....
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: nathanm on October 10, 2008, 12:59:33 pm
quote:
Originally posted by jne
That would be a great flash mob stunt. Imagine standing in the security line at the airport and half the people around you all suddenly disrobe and pile there things on the conveyor belt. Its probably a federal offense....
Even if not, in this fine state, that stunt would net you a spot on the sex offender registry. [xx(]
Title: Feeling Violated at TUL?
Post by: jne on October 10, 2008, 04:35:01 pm
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by jne
That would be a great flash mob stunt. Imagine standing in the security line at the airport and half the people around you all suddenly disrobe and pile there things on the conveyor belt. Its probably a federal offense....
Even if not, in this fine state, that stunt would net you a spot on the sex offender registry. [xx(]
Good point.
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