http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20090418_298_0_Tocsoe470046
By Deon Hampton, World Staff Writer
Published: 4/18/2009 11:19 PM
Last Modified: 4/18/2009 11:19 PM
Two customers were shot and a robber was stabbed multiple times after three bars were robbed within 30 minutes of each other Saturday night, authorities said.
Capt. Richard Alexander said the Par T Lounge in the 2600 block of Sheridan Road was robbed at 8:30 p.m. by two men.
One apparently entered through the front entrance; the other through the back door. Alexander said when one of the robbers brandished a loaded shotgun, patrons thought the act was a prank until a confrontation ensued and the gun was fired.
Buckshot hit one patron in the head and another in the shoulder, police said. A third patron brandished a knife and stabbed one of the suspects three times in the stomach. The suspects fled the scene.
The two injured patrons were taken to a local hospital.
Thirty minutes earlier, the Buccaneer Lounge, 1120 S. Harvard Ave., and Cy's Bar, 3945 E. Admiral Place, were also robbed.
Police believe the three robberies may be related. One of the robbers wore a mask in all three robberies and the other wore a mask in the first two.
It isn't known how much money was taken from the bars, authorities said.
The bandits apparently left the scenes in a light green Ford Explorer with a red rear end.
Deon Hampton 581-8413
deon.hampton@tulsaworld.com
Let's hope this is not a trend like all the bank robberies.
It was reported elsewhere that the robber was stabbed with his own weapon that a customer wrestled away from him. People in bars WILL resist robbers, so I dont see this as being viewed by any bad guy with half a brain as easy pickins.
And I gotta say it...
Who wants to bet that each of these places will think that bright, blinding floodlighting is their solution?
I have a question for the legal types.
If a customer hit the armed robber with something handy, say a beer bottle, and incapacitated or maybe even killed the robber, what liability would the customer have? Could it be called self defense?
Quote from: Red Arrow on April 19, 2009, 01:15:47 PM
I have a question for the legal types.
If a customer hit the armed robber with something handy, say a beer bottle, and incapacitated or maybe even killed the robber, what liability would the customer have? Could it be called self defense?
I don't know about criminal liability, but in a civil suit, the patron would have one heck of a comparative negligence and assumption of the risk defense to a negligence claim and a consent defense to a battery claim. :D
Here is Oklahoma's statute re: tort defense, 76 O.S. 1910 § 9:
"Any necessary force may be used to protect from wrongful injury the person or property of one's self, or of a wife, husband, child, parent or other relative, or member of one's family, or of a ward, servant, master or guest."
One of reasons I moved here was a far better way of life than California. First moved here when David L Moss was DA and god bless his soul. I think with our local criminal justice system we are in pretty good shape, not perfect but better than most. If you have to take down a bad guy even if the baddie gets the ultimate justice, yeah you will probably get booked, but very good chance of charges dropped. Statutes can be argued all day and night but what's right is right. Sad part is crime of violence is a way of life with criminals - TPD, TCSO and HIPO's do great jobs and we don't need to be viglantes, however, if someone intends to do harm to an innocent and innocent wins for once I say great stuff..after all I think of a violent criminal as the same as a Somali pirate..
Quote from: Red Arrow on April 19, 2009, 01:15:47 PM
I have a question for the legal types.
If a customer hit the armed robber with something handy, say a beer bottle, and incapacitated or maybe even killed the robber, what liability would the customer have? Could it be called self defense?
In my humble and largely un-researched opinion, there is no civil action in Oklahoma for such a thing. In Oklahoma you can use deadly force to defend your person from an eminent threat of physical harm (make my day law). You can also use force to defend your property (not as familiar with this law, it is more recent and less tested). An armed robber is assumed to have the intention to use deadly force. Thus, you can pretty much do what you want to him so long as he is not in retreat (at which point you have to prove he was still a threat to use force). It is within your rights by Oklahoma law and thus doubtful that civil penalties would be enforced against you.
In fact, the victims could sue the robber for intentional infliction of emotional distress IMHO. I'd volunteer my time to anyone who wants to sue the estate of a home invader they shot dead for the expense of cleaning up the blood, emotional distress, and $0.50 for two 9mm pistol bullets (or whatever).
Criminally, it is of course up to the DA. But I HIGHLY doubt any charges would be filed. Again, you have a right to defend yourself. Rarely are charges even considered against a potential criminal victim in Oklahoma who stands up for them self. In fact, if you killed one of them the OTHER would-be attackers could be charged with the murder of that individual under the felony murder rule. Good times.
Personally, attacking large groups of intoxicated people just doesn't seem like a bright idea. Lets hope the one stabbed in the stomach dies of an infection or sepsis.
Not a good idea to rob a place co-owned by a guy named "Troll". My only surprise is someone didn't shoot back at the Par-T.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on April 20, 2009, 09:39:52 AM
In my humble and largely un-researched opinion, there is no civil action in Oklahoma for such a thing. In Oklahoma you can use deadly force to defend your person from an eminent threat of physical harm (make my day law). You can also use force to defend your property (not as familiar with this law, it is more recent and less tested). An armed robber is assumed to have the intention to use deadly force. Thus, you can pretty much do what you want to him so long as he is not in retreat (at which point you have to prove he was still a threat to use force). It is within your rights by Oklahoma law and thus doubtful that civil penalties would be enforced against you.
In fact, the victims could sue the robber for intentional infliction of emotional distress IMHO. I'd volunteer my time to anyone who wants to sue the estate of a home invader they shot dead for the expense of cleaning up the blood, emotional distress, and $0.50 for two 9mm pistol bullets (or whatever).
Criminally, it is of course up to the DA. But I HIGHLY doubt any charges would be filed. Again, you have a right to defend yourself. Rarely are charges even considered against a potential criminal victim in Oklahoma who stands up for them self. In fact, if you killed one of them the OTHER would-be attackers could be charged with the murder of that individual under the felony murder rule. Good times.
Personally, attacking large groups of intoxicated people just doesn't seem like a bright idea. Lets hope the one stabbed in the stomach dies of an infection or sepsis.
In most cases. I think in -->linkthis case (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20080530_14_A1_hTheRi146269&archive=yes)<--link, I disagreed with the DA. But I'm not an attorney, and am not privy to the specifics of the case.
Hoss, you were right, Harris screwed the pooch on the Gumm case. I still see Mr. Gumm walking River Parks every now and then. Last time I saw him, he was carrying a very large walking stick.