The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

I know, I know, there are a million of these types of threads, sorry, but I have a few questions about moving to dear ol Tulsa.

Now, I'm an Oklahoma native, but have never lived in Tulsa and am actually moving back to OK from Connecticut. I know plenty of folks who grew up in Tulsa and whatnot, but over the years have lost touch with them.

I'm looking for places to live, of course, and was wondering some of the specific areas I should avoid - or some of the specific areas you'd recommend, too. Since I was a teenager, all I've ever heard is "Stay out of north Tulsa." But I've been north of downtown plenty of times before, and it seemed OK to me. When people say north Tulsa is dangerous, do they mean Turley is dangerous? Do Tulsans consider Turley part of Tulsa? Do they consider it north Tulsa?

Specifically, I've found a couple of potential apartments in the area north of downtown. Of course, I'm still in CT, so I can't check them out in person. However, I thought I'd post the locations on here, and see what some Tulsa natives thought about it.

They are two different addresses, but both generally close. They're in the area that's between the Osage Expressway and Cherokee Expessway (Hwy 75), and north of 244/412, but south of 15th St/Pine St.

I'm a 25-year-old male and would work pretty much a 9-5 job in Catoosa, so I'd like to be somewhere near 244/412 for an easy commute, but I wonder if I should search more in midtown. Any advice you all can give would be fantastic. Thanks a bunch!

North Tulsa isn't all bad but is probably the most economically depressed area in the city with few retail businesses and restaurants.  Crime is high because of this situation, and gang violence is rampant.  That being said there are good and bad sections and someone with more familiarity with the area could probably help you more.  Generally the areas north of 244, east of 75, and west of the airport, are to be avoided.  I would look into Riverview, the neighborhood south of downtown along the river, as there are lots of affordable apartments and people in their 20's and 30's that live there, plus close proximity to the highway.

North Tulsa is not Compton.  There are pockets of North Tulsa that are nice neighborhoods.  But there are pockets that are places I would not want to live.

The area you are describing saw some revival in the last decade.  There are areas of new homes and apartments.  But I can not speak more particularly than that as I have never lived there nor driven around with an eye to do so.  I worked in North Tulsa for years and never had an issue.  I had friends who live(d) in North Tulsa and had no issues.  There is a higher risk of crime in many areas, but perception is as much of a problem as any reality that exists.

The area immediately North of Downtown has long been rumored for a revival, but it has yet to materialize.  As a 20 something single guy, living downtown would be an option.  Several pockets of downtown are starting to pickup and offer unique living (for Tulsa).  If I was single, I'd probably live downtown so I could walk to shows and nightlife (and bring home random women, ahh yes.   Crap, don't tell my wife.). 

But you can't go wrong with midtown either.  I live near 28th and Harvard and love it.  I can walk/bike to nearly any amenity I need.  It's quiet but close enough to everything.  It's VERY diverse economically (one neighbor drives a 2008 BMW, the other a 1992 Dodge POS), racially (white, black, native), and demographically (retired, working, single, married, kids or no).  That has it's pluses and minuses of course, but overall my wife and I love it.

Crime map if that is of great concern for you:

http://www.tulsapolice.org/mapcentral.html

Also don't forget to check areas out on Google Streetview.  Random images at different times of the day can give you a better feel for an area.

And welcome back to Tulsa.

Any apartment complexes which are coming to mind north of 244 are public housing.

What's your price range?  There are decent apartment complexes west of Yale at 51st which puts you close enough to I-44.  Westport on the river is adjacent to 244/75 and is a nice view.

Something to consider about Catoosa is there's likely to be some snarls on I-44 in the mornings.  Moreso when they finally get around to replacing bridges at 161st and 193rd.  You might want to think about Claremore as an option.

Give us an idea of your price range, that might be easier to help you pick a location.

Better yet, any apartment complexes you consider, call them and ask if they offer Section 8 housing.  If they are reputable and say yes without lying, run.  I think they MUST disclose that to anyone that asks, if I'm not mistaken.  I always asked that question and never had a problem until I lived nearly 8 years at my last apartment at 16th and Memorial and they went in the crapper in a hurry.  I'm sure it was because they started offering Section 8.

I have no issue with people who need assistance for housing if it's legit.  If you're cooking meth, stay the hell away from me.

Northwest Quadrant of city is generally seen as a hip place to dwell by local bohemian types.  South Tulsa conversely is generally White and Republican. 

North Tulsa is a mixed bag.  Some nice, some not so nice.  There are a couple of nice old brick apartment buildings on Denver just north of downtown.  I suggest you see it in the flesh and drive by at night time before you make any commitments.

Neighborhoods for you to look at are Brady Heights and Owen Park.

I grew up in South Tulsa and I am so glad I located in Northwest Tulsa when I returned here from California.

Everything south of downtown depresses me.

Even midtown? 

Yes.  It's because I can remember before it was redeveloped and the changes have not been good.  Name an intersection and I'll tell you what was there and why it was better.  It only happens to me here because this is my hometown.

My price range is negotiable. I'm looking for just a 1-bedroom and I mean, I can't afford something that's 1-grand a month, but I can probably go as high as $700 or so. Of course, if I can find a good place at $450 or a "great" place at $750, I'd rather take the cheaper option.

The "hipper" the neighborhood the better, but it's not a necessity either. I'm perfectly content living in a quiet, family-orientated area, too. Either way, I'd definitely prefer living in the city, as opposed to the suburbs. I've also found things in BA and Catoosa, as well, but they're more of fall-back options as I find the city life more appealing.

Can you name a change that you have ever liked?

All you do is complain about every change that has ever happen, is happening, or is proposed in Tulsa.  Things didn't freeze in nineteen-ought-eight (we had to say ought because the Kaiser stole all the zeros).  Your criticism loses teeth when it applies to everything.

Google search and contact Alves Properties here in Tulsa.  They're an excellent company to rent from and Charlie Alves is constantly in the field working on his properties.  He'll most likely have something in your price range and has buildings near 15th street.

For $700 a month, you could even rent a decent small bungalow in mid-town.  Nice 1 bedroom? No problem for that kind of money.

The Oral Roberts University Campus is an important contribution to Modernism in the United States.  I apologize for not having memorized the local architect's name because he is a significant architect.  We were considering buying a home he designed for one of the Roberts in South Tulsa.  I also wrote in an article in the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram that ORU's Praying Hands anticipated Post-Modernism.

I am a born critic Cannon, and I hold Tulsa to a higher standard that most people because I know what Tulsa can be.

I have been lavish in my praise of Tulsa when I hit upon a subject where it is warranted.

Hey SXSW if you are still around I wanted to say that you have authored some of the most insightful remarks about Tulsa I've seen here at TulsaNow.  Thank you.  I know this will be a surprise to you but I was also delighted when you returned after your lengthy absence.

Anyway Eric, Good luck with your apartment search.  There is no place else like Tulsa.  I should know -- I'm Tulsa to the bone.

South Tulsa conversely is generally White and Republican, WITH VERY LOW CRIME, BETTER SCHOOLS, LESS TRAFFIC CONGESTION, BETTER SHOPPING, AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, YOU COULD WIND UP LIVING NEAR ME.  


You can get to Catoosa via the Creek Turnpike.

Shh, don't tell people

I'm pretty sure the "Low Crime" part of that has been refuted. In fact, according to most crime maps I've seen, crime seems pretty evenly spread out, with exception of pockets in North and (GASP!)South Tulsa.

And I'm not sure what you are referring to as "Less traffic congestion". South Tulsa and East Tulsa are the only two places where I've EVER encountered traffic congestion that wasn't due to road construction.

"Meet George Jetson . . ."

Via a 30 year stop-over in San Francisco while the rest of us were making Tulsa what it is today, but he's still a Tulsa native and we love him in spite of his incessant bishing about what Tulsa could be.

South Tulsa has less traffic? Have you ever been to 71st Street? Or how about one of the many two-lane roads that are now main thoroughfares?

If anyone thinks traffic's a problem in downtown or midtown Tulsa, they should move to Mayberry.

Depending on how far South he lives 71st might be considered North to him :)

While I agree about the traffic on restaurant row and acknowledge that Memorial between 91st & 111th can be awful, I think the disconnect is what my idea of south Tulsa is. What I consider south Tulsa is basically south of 71st (I live near 111th & Sheridan), where Hometown's bigoted comment about the race demographic was directed.

Now most people that I talk with that have been here a while (me just 12 years) is that south Tulsa is what is south of I-44, which is essentially Skelly Drive.  If that's the case, that would make "south Tulsa" the largest area of this city.

Yep. See my post above. I live and work south of 71st, and my kids go to school on 81st. The only connection my family has to anywhere near midtown is that my wife works up there and on the rare occasion that I have to appear in court downtown.

Yes, Tulsans are allowed to travel Conan.  I give you permission to drive to Joplin.

San Francisco, yes, a lovely town.  And you missed my second home town Dallas and failed to mention the three years I spent in New York.  Did I ever tell you about meeting one of the most important art critics of my generation while I was in New York -- Tulsan Walter Robinson.  Or the group of Tulsa Artists in Dallas that I met with to opine about what it meant to be from Tulsa, including Tulsa-native artists like Philip Lamb and Julie Kohn.  Or my Artwatch Compadre in San Francisco, Tulsan Linda Jordan.

When these kids here today tell me they want to put Tulsa on the map, I say, what are you talking about kids, Tulsa's been on the map for a long, long time.

And If I was you, I'm not sure I would carry on about spending my career here participating in and adding to Tulsa's decline.

ORU architect=Blaine Imel

Unintentional fail.

Thanks, I have lived in Tulsa on and off for the past several years and my absence was during an 'off' time when I was in Denver.  I'm in OKC now so close enough to get a feel for what's going on but still far enough to not know everything which is why I like this forum.  I may be in Portland next, or possibly Denver again, but then hopefully back to Tulsa permanently.  I work in design/construction (and currently also getting a master's degree at OU) so I have to go where the work is..

Having recently moved from south tulsa to midtown, I think I'm qualified to say that you're full of it. The only thing south tulsa has over midtown is larger sfh lot sizes. (and possibly schools, I don't know about that..I don't have kids and plan to keep it that way)

Traffic is decidedly better up here on the surface streets. That may be due to the abundance of 4 lane streets, which much of south tulsa is lacking.

And don't even consider driving from south tulsa to catoosa, it takes nearly half an hour from memorial. (I know, I've driven the creek a hundred times on my way to Arkansas) How long it takes from my place at 15th & Harvard is dependent on traffic, although even at 5 o'clock I haven't had it take more than about 15 minutes. Much more frustrating driving, though.

I'd also add the S. Tulsa hills, or the ones around 71st/81st & Yale/Harvard.  Love that area because of the hills, trees, and actually pretty varied architectural styles within the neighborhoods.  It's also the area where I grew up.  In midtown 21st St. can be a pain at times, also Yale seems to back up pretty easily as you get closer to I-44.

Who woulda guessed you are a white republican. So that part of "south Tulsa" where I live has more crime and more traffic than midtown. Wow. With that bold statement, I am glad you've moved. The collective intelligence in the area where you used to live just improved.

SXSW, Your post reminds me that Denver recently restored/refurbished their dilapidated civic center.  When we were discussing the future of our civic center here I cited Denver as an example of a city that was improving their aging civic center.  There is actually a public service organization that promotes the importance of civic centers and public spaces and I have been considering inviting their president to come and stay with us here in Tulsa and comment on the future of our civic center.  I imagine you might have something to say along these lines though I don't know that you and I would be in agreement.  I believe our civic center is a mid-century Modern classic and that the loss of it, or diminishing of it through bad remodeling, would be comparable to tearing down the Philtower and the Philcade buildings.

And in regards to South Tulsa, my niece and her husband and child live in Bixby.  When I visit I see a majority of young families with children that I wish were here in middle-aged to older mid-town.  I love the way everything is new and shiny and when we went to one of the pumpkin patches in Bixby I saw a scene of total charm and innocence.  Bixby looks to be the perfect place to raise children.  I absolutely understand why young families want to be there.  It's about good schools and safety for their children.  The more I contemplate Tulsa the more I believe that investing in our public schools is the perfect choice for a family-orientated town like Tulsa.  It would pay many dividends if Tulsa could say again that her public schools were famous for their quality, like they were when I was growing up here.

Eric, I apologize for straying off topic.  When you are making your apartment search you should also look around the 18th and Boston area and the Riverview neighborhood between Denver Ave. and the Arkansas River.  Both neighborhoods have beautiful older construction close in to downtown and are home to a wonderful mix of professionals and workers and young people with a good selection of entertainment and parks and trails close by.

I wasn't talking about where you live, I was talking about where I lived. Where I lived, the crime statistics were very similar to what they are here. And there's definitely less traffic. I never have to wait through two cycles of a light like I regularly did at 101st and memorial and 91st and sheridan.

Maybe things are different up there on top of the hill practically in bixby.

I would definitely recommend doing a 6 mo or 7 mo lease on one of those run-of-the-mill one bdr apts around Cherry Street (S. 15th St. between Peoria and Utica).  The area is about as old school "hip" as Tulsa gets, it's walkable to a little area of pubs and cool stuff, and you can try it out to see if the commute to/from Catoosa is reasonable for you.... and you can check out all the neighborhoods within a mile or two of there... Swan Lake, Mapleridge, Brookside, Florence Park, etc, etc....

It's really a matter of how much you're willing to put up with... folks keep trying to turn Brady Heights into a "hip" area, but it hasn't really taken off... I like Owen Park, but I'm spoiled by my short commute to work in east Tulsa and Owen Park's a little too far west for me these days... Kendall-Whittier is okay, some nice, older  bungalow-style homes... I wouldn't try any apts directly off I-244 until living here for at least 6 mos... IMHO, most of the "Pearl District" is a pipe-dream, as most older homes are too far gone to rehab, and property crime and the meth problems are too much for most of us...

Downtown is ready to take off residentially, but Cherry Street is a nice, reasonably safe and hip area just outside of downtown for you to base yourself out of until you figure out what you like best... and a one bdr there should be well within your price range.





 

 
 

I didn't know you lived that close to my 'hood.  Tshane and TURobY also are in the area.  I gotta admit, my commute up 15th St. from the BA every evening is far better than heading south on Yale off the Creek at 5pm any day.

Beats the hell out of inteller being the closest forum regular.  ;D

There are some nice apartments at 93rd & Memorial (across from the big library) I think they are called "Sun Chase" (or Sun something Apartments).. They are nice looking apartments but I guess crime is bad there, the cops are there quite a bit, It's a huge complex and I believe they welcome section 8. However they may as good as any, you'll never find an apartment complex 100% safe since they are full of all kinds of people. This complex is near the freeway and good shopping. :-X

He's mine.

Wow, there's quite a cluster of us at 15th and Harvard.  And speaking of traffic, it isn't at all bad in Midtown, except maybe the stretch of 21st between Lewis and Utica - you know there's a traffic light every 20 feet and nothing moves, but other than that, it's all good. 

There are much better places in that part of town than that POS meth lab haven.

Edited to add: I'd take 21st between lewis and utica any day of the week over memorial between 81st and 111th.

Once again, shows how long it's been since you even spent ANY time in this town.  I lived in those apartments from 1989-1991 after I got married and before I moved to Texas.  They were nice then, but they were also the only thing out there save for the new Wal-Mart, a Phillips 66, Homeland and Texaco station, all on the corner.  Now it's very crowded there and not surprising they take section 8, because that place is a sh!#hole now.  I wouldn't set foot in there with at least a .45.

You might as well make that 121st.  It will be really great (not) when the 6 lane turns into 4 lane at 111th. Bixby should have taken the opportunity to 6 lane Memorial all the way to the river at a minimum.

Have you considered looking at garage apartments in the Swan Lake - Cherry Street area?

You nailed that one.

Thanks for all the tips. I may have found a place. It's near Woodland Hills Mall.

Does anybody know what my commute would be like to Catoosa? I know rush-hour traffic can be harsh, but have no idea if it would an extra 15-20 minutes every morning/evening, or more like 45 minutes to an hour. Any ideas? Thanks again for all the feedback.

169 to 44 East.

Man you sure picked a quiet, low traffic area to live.

I'd say add 20 minutes each way.  The freeways should be alright, but the surface street in that area are packed.

Nope, 169 will be backed up quite a ways in the morning due to the overpass rehab they're doing at Mingo & I-244.  That flyover ramp backs down to about 21st (before you get to I-44) in the morning.  You might be better served to head east on 21st out to 193rd and then north there.

Yeah, it's not the most quiet part of town. But the condos around there are too good to pass up. And they're off the road a bit and gated, so that helps. I know the traffic will be a bear, but I lived in Denver two years ago, and can't imagine it's much worse than that. Still, a timetable would be good know. Thanks for the ideas.

Also, a bit off-topic, but still has to do with relocating, I guess: Do you all know of any parks or recreation areas where people play pick-up soccer or volleyball games? I've looked online and found this...http://www.neoasa.org/

But the season will be about half-over by the time I arrive and I'm looking for something a bit more recreational for the time being anyway.

Sorry if I'm being "that guy" on here. You guys have been great help. Thanks again!

STAY AWAY FROM PERRY PROPERTIES!!!  Prices are cheap & some buildings look cool from the outside(or at least they used to)...but, he's a slumlord

You aren't the guy who has protested outside Perry's office before, are you?

No...but I've seen them on several different occasions.  Lived in one of his properties years ago, & on two different occasions our water was shut off b'cuz he didn't pay bill.

Where are these properties? I want to advise folks to stay away.

I've heard bad things about Perry properties from a couple people as well.

There are sites on the internet that rate apartments, the residents can post their own ratings about a complex. I don't know how helpful those sites really are. It's also intresting to read comments about a complex.

Owasso and Jenks are my two favorite suburbs.  BA isn't bad.

Tulsa brookside and the utica area are very nice as is far south Tulsa.

This is a pretty good place to live, sure it has its drawbacks but overall its good. 

I always like west Tulsa, across the river blue, it has an old time charm and is not as crowded with malls, stores and traffic. West Tulsa at one time had a major employer called "RiverSide Industries" and they coated metals for electrical transmission towers, this was around 1978 I dunno if they are still in bussiness or not, of if the company moved, I can't find nothing on them thru google. They were a good company to work for.

Haven't been lately, I see.  71st at US 75 is not pretty these days.  Oh, that's right, you don't live here....

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?articleID=20080215_5_e1_world38233

And the traffic?  Try crossing the bridge from West Tulsa (21st from Chandler Park) over US75 at 5pm to get on the highway and tell me that traffic ain't bad.  I've done it twice in a week and it ain't pretty.  The traffic by the mall I referenced above is not fun either.  It's not Woodland Hills, but it's starting to get heavier.

Wrong river. Ours is brown.

remember saurkraut lives in a fancified world.  He does not live here.  He has no idea of driving around Tulsa on a daily basis.  He only passes through on rare occasions.   Where you talk about I avoid if I can because of the traffic.  I try to not go south of I-44 because getting past that great wall is a major headache almost anytime of day.  Yale is the only place where I don't have to wait for two or three red lights just to get beyond the interstate.  Some days I think it would be faster to go over the river to 75 and down to 71st just to get to Heberts than to try to go straight down Lewis. 

LOL well I hope you guys don't mine the addition of a black, liberal female to south tulsa  ;D

Welcome to Tulsa!!! Or rather welcome to Tulsa when you make it here!!