The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Any thoughts here about Tulsa's Mayor and her big cut-backs of the police force and other lay-offs? Kathy has many high paid workers on her staff that she won't lay-off, or even cut their pay. I'm surprised no one mentioned this mess. ???

Are you talking about with the most recent budget that she just submitted or since the beginning of her term? Cause I thought that this budget was maintaining current staffing with police/fire.

I'd love to see an org chart of her office.

I always hear the KFAQ line that she has all these high paid advisers but never any detailed info. I wonder if they are counting people like Crowley.

Why should it matter to someone who doesn't live here?  Worry about Omaha/Columbus/wherever....sheesh.

Both KFAQ and KRMG have too many commericals if you ask me. That's all money they are raking in.. :-X

"You are not allowed to give negative reputation to this user! "

Well that's a hoot

As I recall, the mayor works for free, which allows her to hire additional staff from the money that was budgeted for the mayor's salary.

How many hours a week does she put in for free?  I'm guessing around 80-100.

Everyone is talking about the high paid consultants the mayor has on payroll.  Since it is a public position, the names and positions should be given.  If you have names and positions put them on the table.  Otherwise your just spouting unknown sources with no real and positive information.  Hearsay is just that, gossip.  Until you can name names and give $ amounts, then you are no better than Fox News with its smearing of someone with no real proof,  speculation is just a bunch of dudes comparing penis sizes.  They are all liars. 

The mayor working 80-100 hours a week? If she works 6 days a week, she would have to work 13.3-16.6 hours a day.  I don't think the mayor works that much.  I would say at most 12-13 hours a day 5 days a week.  You also have to account for all the time she takes our for "luncheons", ribbon cutting ceremonies, etc etc.

Anyone who has ever been in a responsible position like that knows you don't punch in/out. You are Mayor 24/7. That includes luncheons, ribbon cuttings, even breakfast in public. You seldom get a break. 7am to 11pm is more likely which makes 80-100 hours a week a believable number. The only time truly off clock is in the restroom.

I spent that much as director of advertising for a small newspaper and certainly as a small business owner.

So I guess it safe to say that I work 70-80 hours a week as well if you include lunch breaks, drive time to and from work and every other little petty thing I do between the time I leave my house and the time I pull into the driveway.

Don't get me wrong, the mayor is a public figure and must make alot of public appearances.  However, I hardly classify dinner functions, pancake breafasts with local leaders, luncheons with young professionals and ribbon cutting ceremonies as actual "work".

If you are responsible for operating a large capital investment for others and report to the board, then yes, you may count your lunch breaks, drive time and every other petty little thing. You better if you want to be successful at the position. A position like that is "at work" or thinking about work nearly every waking minute of the day. If you're lucky, you don't dream about it as well. You have a luncheon with a young professional at a ribbon cutting and have to watch every single word you utter and every move you make because it may make it onto a blog, a forum or the press where it is dissected, probably misquoted and analyzed for meaning. Then you go back to the office for your everyday activities. That is one reason why executives get paid so much and why they have higher than average personal problems. They are selling their personal time and space.

Your correct she's a free-Bee worker without a paycheck, and she under her limit for hiring. She is allowed to hire 16 workers and she only hired 12. So even if she goes thru with this new hire she will be still under the limit of workers allowed to her and will be still good to go. The timing is bad and it does not look good and she sets a poor example if she hires that new person, but she can do it and stay legal. :D

If she's working for free, how does she pay for food, clothing, and shelter?  And, if she's on someone's dole, who is claiming her as a dependent on his 1040?

I hope you are being sarcastic!!...if not, you must not know who her husband is.
They have a lear jet out at US Aviation at TIA, her husband drives a new Bentley something or other and have a beautiful house located in midtown.  I don't think they are hurting for money.

He is/was the CEO of Alamo and National car rental under the company vanguard automotive group until they were bought by enterprise in 2007 (if I remember correctly).

I am not for sure what he is upto these days. 

Her and her husband invested in the travel market when it was worth investing in. They won't go hungry anytime soon.

Which state do they file their income tax?  Travel market ----> Vanguard ----> Chrysler.  Following the money trail.

She might not take money but she does not work for free.  She is all about ego.  And believe me the City pays for hers!

2811 South Columbia?  The $8.12 MILLION estate with seven tennis courts?

I didn't see any tennis courts when I was there. Hard to believe there was 8 million worth of home there, but what do I know.

Ok, 7 Tennis courts even got me to look and I believe what you are seeing (via Google Earth anyway) is the Tulsa Tennis Club (but I'm not certain, not really my neighborhood).  I suggest you look one house to the South from the 7 courts (looks like a big fence between them too) ... and from what I have seen $8.12 is LOW it is an amayzing building!  

Q:  Is it just me that thinks we need a rule that if your going to bash someone for opulence that they at least be accurate!

Come on Vision man...you expect truth to get inserted in a hate rant?

She lives three blocks from the previous Mayor who also owns a way bigger than normal house. I never heard anyone talk about his big house.

for the record, it makes me mad that the mayor has a big house... only because I want one too....

Yeah, but then you have to clean it. Of course, if you can afford a house that large, you can probably afford some cleaning help. LOL

Yeah, well, I heard she eats babies in that mansion.

Oh no, the mayor's rich. Get the pitch forks.

Perhaps Tulsa needs a homeless mayor. 

I'm voting for the first homeless person that will run.  The people of Tulsa deserve someone that no one will envy.  Someone who will bring down our expectations.

Heaven forbid we have a successful experienced person in a leadership role.  I'm looking for a resume with some bank defaults, foreclosures, and perhaps an alcohol or sex addiction.  I want someone who will steal toilet paper from city hall, and sleep in doorways.

Mayor Taylor is simply too clean.

I want a mayor that bums cigarettes and has little use for deodorant.  Someone who is fascinated by shiny objects, and thinks that the non-stick surface on her cookware gives off fumes that allow aliens to read her thoughts.

I think it's time for a mayor that wants CHANGE. 

SPARE CHANGE!

(sarcasm)  ;)

That's what I'm always saying when I tell people I want a 20 room house.

His house is no doubt bigger than average.  But it is not in any way comparable to the current mayor's house.  Nobody ever talked about his house because it is a completely non-extraordinary, upper-middle class house.  Nothing at all to talk about.  Mayor Taylor's on the other hand is truly extraordinary and noteworthy.  I have been in it and, while there are NOT seven tennis courts, personally, I think it borders on obscene, but, whatever...  (Note, I am not in any way criticizing her for being rich or for having that house, which she says is entirely her husband's baby.)

Whatever he d-mn well wants to.

I've always been curious about that too.  I've wondered if the real reason she takes no salary is so she can claim no income in Oklahoma, which then you don't have to claim to be a resident, which means you can file taxes in another state, like, say, Florida, where there is no personal income tax.  It might be cheaper for them to bypass her salary in order to claim residence in Florida.

But, if she's a resident of Florida for income tax purposes, then how can she be Mayor?  Wouldn't you need to be a resident of Tulsa?

I'm not saying any of this is happening, but, I've always wondered.  Uhmmmmmmm .........

Why does anyone give two craps about the size of her house or where she files her taxes?  Whether or not she's got a tennis court or seven?  Who her neighbors are in Ft. Lauderdale?  Stop sniping and vote her out of office if it's troublesome to you.

Kathy's real home in in FL and that state has no income taxes. Or, at least that's whay I have been told.

If she's claiming FL residency, taking no OK salary to avoid state taxes, does any of her Mayoral actions have any legitimacy?

So why would someone with obvious significant investment income have Florida as their residence over Oklahoma for tax purposes… Yes, Florida does not have a state income tax but that is only for wages earned and miscellaneous income in the state but Florida taxes investment or passive income (stocks bonds, real estate income…) at a flat 15%.   Oklahoma taxes investment earnings like any other income at what 6 or 7%...

Ah, Tulsa Tennis Club.  That explains that, thank you.

It doesn't necessarily reflect on her as mayor, but goddang...I'm still just flabbergasted.

I believe the highest income tax rate for Oklahomans in 2008 was 5.5%. It keeps going down .25% each year.

...and it's showing.  I'm normally a tax-cut person, Oklahoma doesn't need less revenue right now.

I thought all of this was hashed out during the last mayoral election...

to borrow a Reaganism,  There you go again,  spreading unsupported rumors.   Do you have any good rumors about the mayor of Omaha you can smear him with? 

He puts the "HA" in Omaha.

Aren't you glad he doesn't vote, anywhere?

She's also a space alien, the city councilors are all dwarves and you seem to believe everything negative you read.

They don't like to be called dwarfs, they prefer "little counselors".
 

Do you have a source for that information about Florida taxing investment and passive income at 15%?  I can find no evidence of such a tax.

(For the record, I'm not buying that Kathy maintains her legal residence in Florida.  Mr. Kathy Taylor may well maintain his residence in Florida... but I doubt she does and don't think she could, legally.)

I'll see what I can find that is official.  I have family that lives there and they gripe profusely about it every year come tax time.  We have some common passive assets and they are affected in Florida but were not in Texas where they used to live...  Florida also does a neat stunt with visiting boats and aircraft (the AOPA sends out warnings to its members each year about this)... spend (I think it is) 3 weeks in the state and using airport and marina activity records they file a tax lien for sales tax and force you to register the asset in their state even if you are not a resident and charge sales tax based on their determination of the assets value regardless if you have owned it forever in another state.

I don't care about the size of her house nor how many tennis courts she has.  Terrific for her and her husband who have succeeded at business.  In fact, I've been to a couple 'events' at her house and it is one fantastic house!  Congratulations to her.

Where she pays taxes and where she claims residence is troublesome to me if it is anything but Tulsa, Oklahoma.

You have the aircraft one about half right.  IIRC, they charge visiting craft the use (sales) tax if the craft was purchased within 6 months prior to the visit.  They are working on fixing it so that you can visit for up to three weeks without paying the use tax.  Currently, it apparently applies the moment you touch Florida with your recently-purchased craft (air or water).

Ditto.  No, this puzzle has never been solved.  Who Owns Kathy?

After looking and finding nothing, I am just going to go out on a limb and say there is no way that Florida taxes personal investment and passive income at 15%.  You must have gotten something confused.   Think about it for a minute.... if there was such a tax in Florida, would ANYONE be living in Palm Beach or any of the other oceanside communities of uber-wealthy people?

I'm looking... My brother in law (is my source) lives in the state he gripes about it every year, it may ba a local.

And again, that's what the electoral process is all about.  If there are things we aren't comfortable with in an incumbent, we fire them.  I guess I'm getting a little weary of the personal attacks on certain politicians.  I'm hardly a Mayor Taylor apologist.  I just don't get the point in bringing up "Where does she pay her taxes?" every three months.  A month before the election... have at it.  ;)

I'm not an appologist either, but I don't think she deserves all of the uninformed venom that is directed at her in the Tulsa World blogs. Has she made mistakes? Certainly. Is she working very hard (for free); is she committed to the job and to Tulsa?  Yep. I have no doubt that her heart is in the right place.

I too think that folks are taking any chance they can to put her down (yes, I've brought up a point or two that I think need concideration, but just brought them up, perhaps clarified, then let them go), but I am far from a supporter of hers.  I think she has made plenty of mistakes.  However, there is no reason to continuing roasting her on any little thing that the internet will turn up on her that can be shed in a negative light.  I do not, however, share your confidence that her heart is in the right place. But this is just my thoughts on it.

I talked to someone I respect about her, and he had a pretty good analogy. He compared Taylor to a baseball player who goes up to the plate and swings for the fences. She wants to make things happen, instead of taking a bunch of pitches and waiting for something to happen. She'll strike out or hit a dribbler to the mound occasionally. But she'll also hit her share of doubles, triples and home runs.

It beats LaFortune, who seemed paralyzed by indecisiveness and the "rebels without a clue" city council the last two years of his term. Or, to further strain the metaphor, he was a .300 singles hitter who suddenly quit hitting.

I don't think there's anyone that questions wanting a Mayor that will swing for the fences...the problem I have with ours is how she goes about it.  Do we want an all-american that tries their hardest with the best of intentions and natural abilities connecting for that grand slam or do we rely on a Rodgriguez or Clemens and their way of making sure they connect despite the way its done?

Just as an exercise, what quantifiable and successful accomplishment has our current Mayor actually accomplished since taking office?  And no one gets to use the BOKCenter...many seem under the impression that she did it all, including setting the cornerstone.  Sorry, it was finished under her watch and she found a way to cover the over-budget expenses by shifting priorities and dealines and then "cut the ribbon."  What others have their been?

In her campaign she promised mostly three things:  Increased public safety, Economic Development and Education...keep these in mind with your list.

For those that want to reminisce about what Taylor had promised in her first campaign (and since it has been removed from just about every Google accessible site)...follow these links:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060507223918/www.taylorfortulsa.com/page.php?page=FightCrime

http://web.archive.org/web/20060507224005/www.taylorfortulsa.com/page.php?page=NeighborhoodPlan

http://web.archive.org/web/20060507224145/www.taylorfortulsa.com/page.php?page=StrategicVision

http://web.archive.org/web/20060507223957/www.taylorfortulsa.com/page.php?page=EducationPlan

A list of her "accomplishment" since taking office and through April '08 is located here:

http://www.taylorfortulsa.com/accomplishments/

Many of these are announcements, dedications, and hosting of events.  I have not been able to find one in the list of her first two years that mentions actively and directly bringing new businesses or jobs to Tulsa, increasing public safety officers beyond minimum staffing levels, or supporting neighborhood planning initiatives...I could be wrong, so please let me know yours.

Michael Bates also wrote an interesting article reflecting on the Mayor's first year in office.

http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid:17257

Here are the accomplishments whether you agree with the decisions or not.

Spearheaded ice storm clean up and got volunteers to go door to door to help people get their weather heads restored so they could have their power turned back on. Worked with the governor's office to get disaster relief funds to pay for the clean up

Moved all city offices to a single location and the city purchased a building to house them at a price of less than $40 p sqf

ONEOK Stadium

Got the county to agree to cover the BOK center's cost overrun

Disagreed with the county commissioners' plan to make the city pay to use the DLM jail

Worked with the council to begin collecting city sales tax on goods sold at the fair grounds

Increased salaries for city employees

Hired a new police chief

Edited to add: Jack Crowley and PlaniTulsa

^ I also was told by locals that Taylor also was a big champion in getting the Red Fork Main Street program established.

Also, DowntownNow, you could do better than make a comparison to Clemens or Rodriguez, who would have been Hall-of-Famers even if they hadn't used performance-enhancers.

Now, if you used a Brady Anderson comparison, that would have made more sense.

RWARN...true and thanks for the reminder, would have been a better use.

While Taylor may have been instrumental (though Im sure the initiative was already there and she lent a helping hand) in getting the Red Fork Mainstreet Program established, she had also suggested that the program apply for CDBG grant funds to accomplish its mission. 

Those funds have been held up repeatedly (since being approved by the City Council in fall of '08) by Daphne Pharis, Director of Grants Adminstration.  The reason become apparent in today's just published (on the web at least) Tulsa World story - I have placed a post in the Development thread here. 

That department is a Taylor established department that was to have made things easier and more efficient in dealing with federal grants and their disbursement.  In light of the scrutiny by HUD over the City, and the administration's delay in meeting a deadline...Im not sure Id call this an accomplishment yet.

You've got to be kidding!

1.  Ice storm clean up.  Great job.  Give you that one.

2.  Not all city offices are in the new city hall, not even close.  While a cool looking building, you get what you pay for.  And, any government person who knows anything about security will tell you, you don't put all your workers in one place.  Not to mention a totally glass building.

3.  ONEOK Stadium funding is hitting huge roadblocks and will face many court battles.  Don't be surprised when the city's funding plan gets thrown out.  Everyone prepare for a tax increase to clean up this mess.

4.  Disagreeing with the county over the jail may look good now, but, believe me, this will cost us more in the long run.  Just stand by for the costs associated with the pissing contest going on between the city and county.  Blame on both sides.  Neither side is looking out for the tax payer.

5.  The fairgrounds take-over was started by x-city councilor of district 3.

6.  Increased salaries of her own staff you mean, by huge amounts.  Fought with the unions against raises and only gave them when ordered by an arbitrator.

7.  I like Chief Palmer, so I'll give you that one, but, how difficult of a search was that?  Rehire the last chief who still lived in Tulsa.  Not too difficult.

That reads more like a list of normal mayoral duties to me, apart from the BOK hubcap - which is a great feather in her resume.

That's the rub...  It seems to me that she's wildly self-interested/promotional and if we benefit from her resume building, so be it - but ultimately, she doesn't really care.

Where's the list of innovative solutions or even suggestions for:
crime
education
'new urbanism' / development
infrastructure
etc.

I'm not impressed that she's been able to keep up with standard executive duties.  Show me a list of real goodies and it'll chip away at the prejudice...

Perhaps many of you expect too much from the mayor of a medium sized city in a solid red state that has experienced economic trauma from high paying job loss the last two decades. A city that enjoys cannibalizing its elected officials and demeaning its public education while screaming about crime and infrastructure till it becomes self fulfilling. I would think just being an effective executive at any level these days is something to brag about. Fix crime, education and new urbanism? Really. I mean, really man.

Building her resume'? With what job objective? Being the ex-mayor of Tulsa ain't no big deal, just another lawyer looking to land in a good firm and provide pr contacts. That comes whether you've been good or not. Savage and Inhofe moved a little farther but no one else I can think of. And she certainly doesn't need the hype.

I suspect nothing will chip away at your prejudice.

My expectations aren't out of line - not looking for miraculous, consummate solutions to crime, infrastructure, etc, just some effort - at least!  It's a sad day when congratulations are in order for merely accomplishing the requirements of the job.  In the old days, that was "C" work.  That's what plagues our public schools - now, it's "A" work.

I can't speak to the Mayor's career aspirations, but I've spelled out what it looks like to me.  With enough drive, she could go darn near anywhere from here.  U.S. senator is a bit of a jump from Mayor of a '...medium sized city in a solid red state...' wouldn't you say?

Well, I honestly hope that's not the case.

Seems like your prejudice focuses on the city.

I think everyone's unsure what the solutions are for education. The problems are complex and multipronged and have vexed conservatives and liberals and radicals and moderates alike.

And it's not like she's any position to do anything anyway. That's not part of her job description. That's the job of the state, administrators, teachers and the local school boards.

And anyone who claims to have a silver-bullet solution is whistling past the graveyard.

Yes, I have a prejudice FOR this city. I have lived here going on 6 decades. Thats nearly a dozen mayors and none of them have measured up to what you're asking. I wouldn't want to measure her against any of them but if pressed, I do think she is as effective as the first LaFortune and no more accessible than any of them. I would give her a B+.

Well put.

The rumor mill puts her getting ready to go to Assistant Secretary of Commerce (working for the Obama admin).

Wow, you really ARE old, aren't you?  ;)

You wear it well, my friend.

It'll probably go into the circular file with the flock of other unfounded rumors about her (she's running for gov, she's running for Senate, she's running for ...).

I think the rumor mill needs new sources.

Yeah, well I saw her last night walking back to city hall with at least one of the councilors and a small group of folks and I over heard her say,

"On a mountain of skulls, in the castle of pain, I sat on a throne of blood! What was will be! What is will be no more! Now is the season of evil!"

I think she's got big plans.

Thanks. Feeling a bit tattered, in shatters but at least ambulatory.

ha-HA!  Validated at last...

Thanks, Townsend!

;)

I don't consider that as being old. 

Sha-nuu-bee

That is funny.

kind of makes you wonder why American Idol doesn't feature their work.