The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Anybody know who to call to get a bathtub refinished?  Whats it cost? I also need a little tile repair.  It would be great if the same folks could do both.

JNE, either wait for Conan to post in here or PM him.  He just did all the research on this.  I do not recall the specifics, but he is doing an entire home remodel and re-glazing the bath tub was too expensive.  So that's a good hint . . .

My neighbors had a clawfoot tub glazed and it was less than $300.

Just how big an ole boy is Conan and how big is his tub? Maybe he priced out the swimming pool?

I've heard stories of a couple hundred bucks for the bath and wall tile to 450 for just the tub.  I just need the tub done, the wall tile is great.  My floor tile has a spot that needs a little TLC. We're trying to decide if we want something different (just redo the whole floor) or try to have the patch matched and repaired.  As I was house shopping, I saw plenty of jobs that looked great.  Somehow when I start asking questions about who did the glazing, everyone gets amnesia....  [Paging Conan to the internets]

Just spray paint it  ::)

Here's my quandry:

I wanted to keep as much of what was still original in my Lortondale home original.  I also am sort of freaky about materials.  I have an issue about plastics or fiberglass in the bath or bath enclosure.  Someone had torn out all the old tile and replaced it with one of those five-piece FRP crappy enclosures (yes, that's duct tape, or chrome as they call it in Arkansas).  

(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/71conan/TN/House078.jpg)

Finding an honest-to-God castiron glazed tub is time consuming and to replace it can be expensive.  I had a quote from the national chain that re-lines tubs and does entire bathrooms.  The convenience of having it done in one day was tempting.  The price and the thought of plastic under foot or hand didn't work for me.  Nice people and I've heard good things about their products, just not what I wanted in the end.

Moving along... I found a reciept from where the tub had been re-glazed in 1995.  The glazing was coming off in places, and appears to be nothing more than an epoxy coating.  I don't see anything which indicates that it was a schlock job when it was done, it simply was not maintained properly.  Things like having hot sex in the shower while wearing golf spikes will do that to a tub finish.

Aside from being a blowhard and legend in my own mind, I think of myself as somewhat of a renaissance man as well.  I can do many things, none of them particularly well, but I can do them anyhow.  I've restored cars and motorcycles, why would a bathtub refinish be any different?  ;)

I just had all new bath tile and tile wainscoting installed.  I didn't have the time or patience to do my own tile right, that was something better off paid for.  I figured I'd refinish the tub after guys were finished walking in it with grout on their shoes.  I'm presently stripping the rest of the 1995 "glaze" job off and I'm going to try a spray epoxy which is specific for this purpose that I picked up at Lowe's for $40.  The real trick appears to be careful surface prep (sand it good and get ALL the dust out) and not applying coats too heavily.

I'll spend probably 10 minutes carefully masking everything and will have about 3-4 hours in prep.  If I'm happy with the results, I can be proud, if I'm not, I'll call the pros and pretend I never did it.

http://surfacesolutionsofoklahoma.com/tubs_and_sinks.html

(I notice these guys also do stained concrete)

Here's the DIY solution

http://www.refinishingonline.com/diy.htm

Just in case anyone is thinking of doing stained concrete in their home, I've worked with Vancrete on this project for the common hall, kitchen, dining back hall/bath.  Good people and reasonible.  They will do turn-key and will support total or partial DIY.  I had them float the floor, I'll do the staining and sealing.  I'd also recommend Mill Creek if anyone is considering cork or bamboo flooring.  I went with cork in the bedrooms and living room.

Sorry for the long dissertation, it takes me 10 minutes to describe a 5 minute trip to the store.

OK, I had only seen brush on solutions (if you can call them that).  I don't see how you could use a brush and get an acceptable finish.  I am intrigued by the DIY spray product.  Looks like your tub is bad enough to give it a shot (mine is too, although, its no competition next to yours:) without the risk of making it worse. I appreciate your thorough response. I will also appreciate the opportunity to see if you screw yours up before I try the same method. Keep me posted. LOL

The yellowish surface you see in the photo is the old glaze job.  The bluish tint is the original finish.  I'm using straight razor blades in a scraper to get the old stuff off.  I'll sand it with automotive grade paper, tack the dust off then shoot it.  I tried using 1500 grit to see if I could polish out some scuffs or wear in the original surface but they were into the cast iron I think.  If it doesn't work out, I'm out $40 plus tax and 4-5 hours work.  There's absolutely no way I'd try a brush application.  I've seen that before on a tub and tile enclosure and it looks just like someone painted it on with a paint brush or small broom.

 Just had my tub refinished not 3 weeks ago. Used "Bathroom Magic" 355-1974. It cost 315$. The liner would have cost a lot more and since I dont use the tub anyway, have a shower, wasnt going to worry about wear and tear issues. It looks like a perfectly fine job to me.

 (http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4392/aimg4117.jpg)

Also finally got the tile done earlier this year. I had done the floor myself, then decided that was enough of that type of thing for me. Had someone do the shower,,, they made a mess of it. Then had another company to the wainscotting and they did a great job.

Fiiiinally almost done with the bath. Need to finish sanding and painting the ceiling, do some light glazing on the cabinets, and I think that will do it. Btw, I was pretty proud of my shelf idea over the tub, made it myself.  :) And can anyone tell me why the critters always always have to get right in the way when your trying to take pics? lol

(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8967/abimg4114.jpg)

(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8651/abimg4124.jpg)

This was actually 2 microscopic baths at one time. Now its one small one lol. The tub was on one side and the shower on the other. Ripped out the middle wall, both sinks and a toilet. Had to chisel out all the tile, one side was green the other pink. Then level the floor. The black wall behind where the sink is now is where some pipes, and a vent for the hot water tank I guess, were so had to put that in. Went ahead and was brave and made it gloss black with the silver mirror on top. Then put in the black shelf and the silver and black framed photos to tie it all together. Kind of a mix of, old world classical, contemporary and a bit of deco. 

Next project.... the Kitchen.

Nice Hijack with pics and everything...heh...Looks good...

Why did your cat get in the photo?

(http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~burrows3/AttentionWhore2.jpg)

$315 sounds really reasonable.  Your tub design is identical to mine, and the finish looks fantastic....hmmm it's tempting.  The bid to put a plastic liner in mine was $2000.  Plastic enclosure, liner, some basic plumbing was about $5700. 

$315 is not too bad.  A little more than I would LIKE to pay, but I sure am getting sore from all this moving and such.  I may have to spring for it.

I said pancakes and gave them a call.  I'm set for 7:30am on Friday.  My time is worth more than that to me, and I know what I will get for a finish.  She said $85 or less to finish stripping what I'd started, $315 to coat it.  Best part is, I can have my bath back together by the end of the weekend. 

Thanks for the tip Artist!

They came out this morning, they were done in less than three hours and I'm incredibly happy with the result.

At this point, looks like money very well-spent.  I'll post photos of the "after" soon as I can.  I might also mention, they've been in business for 21 years.

They remembered Artists house very well: "You mean the home near 41st & Yale that looks like a $1mm mansion inside?"

Any special instructions? You have to use non-abrasive cleaners or anything?

Non-abrasive cleaners only, which really is pretty good wisdom for a tub with it's original finish on it.  Use 409, Fantastic, or the foaming bubbles stuff.  I'll read the list and post if there's anything weird.  They also said wiping down the tub after use is a very good idea.

I think you'll find it money well-spent unless you want to buy my kit from me I got at Lowe's and give it a shot yourself first.

HA!  Apparently they didnt look too closely at the kitchen,,, or the den.  My motto, Live small but well.  8) 

Finished

Looks good!  OK - I plan on calling up to do mine in a few weeks.

Piss poor photo, cheap camera, low resolution

Before/After shots of the bathroom:

Looks great Conan. Love the sink and the checkered border tile too.

The checkered tile was some glass mosaic I found.  I'll have to post a photo of the bath floor tile, the house is an interesting mix of retro/mid-century modern and mod.  It's a work in progress.

want to pass along an expensive lesson learned about bathroom magic out of broken arrow.  we got a bait and switch.  they did a phone estimate, did not come to home for estimate first.  when doug arrived, he talked us into putting a sticky back liner down on tub, fiberglass with cracks on floor, after he drilled a few holes and filled underneath with Handifoam to support the structure.  ok job but our mistake was to not **stop**renegotiate**get written bid before work starts**.  he knocked off 10% from what was estimated for complete reglazing, only took an hour, and thought that was fair.  wow 

I called them out on a warranty issue about two years ago.  The epoxy had separated in a spot roughly 2” in diameter and peeled up.  He claimed it was because I was allowing water to set on the epoxy.  Really?  It’s bucking epoxy bucko!  He filled it in by hand, didn’t feather around the area.  It eventually peeled again.  Poor initial prep would seem to be the problem.  I simply don’t care to be BS’d that something is my fault when science doesn’t back up his claim.  I’d still probably use them again, but I don’t care for the hip-hopping around when it came to making good on their warranty.  Just mentioning as a potential buyer beware issue.  Other than the 2” spot, it’s all still in great shape.  I’ll touch it up again at some point, but I will do it next time since it’s now a rent house.

Water can't sit on epoxy used in a bathtub?  Whew!

Hey there Chris, I hope you're doing well. Just wanted to clear things up and try to change your perspective on my dad, Doug. As you know, my folks have owned the company since 1988, and we don't have any employees. My father is extremely honest, and has never one time performed a "bait and switch", as you called it. We could only give a sight-unseen estimate over the phone based on description, which is what we gave. When my dad arrived at your home, he told you it needed supporting in your shower. What this means is, your shower floor had cracked and was leaking water through the cracks. About 20% of the fiberglass repairs we do need supporting. This is caused from two things: One, every builder we've ever met refused to support shower floors and fiberglass enclosures because they believe the walls can support the floor just fine. When our home burned down, and we had to hire a home builder, we asked him specifically about our upstairs fiberglass enclosure. He told us the same thing. However, being that we have knowledge in this area, we put two bags of sand wedged between boards underneath the f/g enclosure and prevent future cracks. The second reason, is simply because it's being used without any support. Weight doesn't matter, height doesn't matter, a person could be 100 pounds and five feet tall, and over time, the shower floor would still crack. On to the other issue, we do not use any form of HandiFoam. HandiFoam is sold in Home Depot and is merely for filling air gaps in doorways, crawlspaces, windows, etc. It's not meant to support any weight, and it will not support any weight at all. It crumbles under ten pounds.  The foam we use is a two-part, industrial strength foam that spreads and is designed to hold over two hundred pounds per square inch! Needless to say, it is very expensive, even for us, and if my dad knocked off $30 for you that day, then that means to me that he didn't even make $100 off the job. I talked to my dad and remembers you well, and was disheartened to hear you thought he pulled a scam, or bait and switch, on you. We were unable to provide a proper estimate over the phone, and for that, we apologized. But one single review can be devastating to our business, and we would never risk being dishonest even ONCE, on the chance that others would think that about us and not hire us in the future. You see, if we don't work, we can't make money. So we work honestly, we work hard, and we work with integrity. My wife Jessica and I (Jared) co-own this business with my parents, and we plan to be around as long as possible so I can take care of my family the way my father took care of us. If you still feel like you've been dishonestly taken advantage of, I will personally give you a refund. Contact us anytime at 918-355-1974, and I'll take care of you. The only important things to me are that one, you're happy, and two, you walk away knowing my dad is an honest man. Have a great day. :)

Hey Conan! Sometimes my dad Doug doesn't properly explain things. I'm pretty sure I can back up what dad was saying with science, and let me know if you think otherwise. First, we don't use an epoxy. Epoxy always fades over time, and gray becomes purple, and white become almond. We use a premium glaze that's specifically made for porcelain and ceramic. It's similar to an expensive car paint. Car paint, like our glaze, has to breathe, so to speak. When shampoo are left in the corners of bathtubs, the water that WAS on the them runs down to the tub. Sitting water is called "Water Stagnation", and breeds bacteria, which creates mold and and mildew. This is why caulking turns black sometimes-it's mold growing on the caulking, and it grows well since showers and bathtubs create such humid environments. Back to our product, it needs to breathe and can not remain smothered with water stagnation. Over time, our glaze, as well as house paint, car paint, and anything else paint related, begins to bubble. This is not due to poor prep work, it's from the water damaging the paint and expanding it's size, then as the water evaporates, it shrinks back. If it fails to dry, then eventually the bubble cracks. This is where the real damage occurs: Once the bubble cracks, then water works it's way under the glaze creating havoc and further damage. There is no amount of prep work in the world that will keep any kind of paint down on any kind of surface if the surface is smothered in stagnated water twenty four hours a day. I believe with the prep work we do, and the glaze we use, that we have the best chance for it lasting in any case. That being said, on the back of all of our receipts we include care instructions on how to maintain the glaze. The very first instruction states "Do not rest any spray cans, shampoo bottles, or wet cloths in the corners." Since the FDA limited the use of and banned lead in bathtubs, the original porcelain put on tubs today is considerably weaker than the porcelain of the 1950-80's. So we actually copied our care instructions directly from Kohler Bathtubs. If you buy a brand new bathtub today, the instructions are the same: Don't rest anything wet in one place for any length of time, and use a non-abrasive cleaner to clean your tub. I'm sorry if my pops didn't properly explain this; he's not the greatest when it comes to explaining to a customer WHY it happens-he just knows that it does. If you have any questions or concerns, I'd love to help you. I majored in science classes all through school, and my wife is teacher who is certified for high school and college science. (She doesn't teach anymore, but still. She's a smartie. ) Give us a call anytime at 918-355-1974 if we can answer any questions for you or help in any way. We look forward to hearing from you. Thanks, and have a great day! -Jared

Jared, thanks for dropping in on the forum.  I understood clearly how to care for the tub and did as your dad recommended:  Only soft cleaners, no abrasives.  I never left shampoo bottles, washcloths, etc. on the finish.  I bought a shower caddy specifically to keep this from happening either by my laziness or ignorance of my house guests.  The area which peeled was about 4-6” from the drain in the bottom of the tub, water would run off into the drain and it generally would stay dry other than spots of water here and there.  I cleaned the tub regularly with foaming bubbles to prevent bacterial growth and film.  That’s why I called BS on the dampness issue.  Especially since the warranty repair failed rather quickly in the same area, I assumed it is a preparation issue or I’ll even give you credit and float the supposition it could have been an issue with the underlying substrate which was 54 years old when this was originally applied.

I did not bother to take a towel and dry the tub out after each use as I was of the understanding that was not necessary.  I also never take baths so there was never standing water in the tub at any time.

This was from a guide I found on-line and though not yours, I believe addresses all the issues as were explained to me other than waxing it every few months, which I’d never heard before.  I can see a benefit to help disperse water into smaller beads.  Curious if you guys recommend the Turtle Wax approach.


Again, I appreciate your explanation, but I cannot fathom why anyone would use a material which does not stand up to moisture to re-coat the most moist surface in a home.

On the list- Tilex is terrible to use. It's terrible on your skin, and even says to use gloves and a mask when using it. So please don't use that (I'm sure you won't, just saying). I totally agree with the wax, and we actually use McGuire's Car Wax, and love it. Side note? Car wax helps remove soap scum. Pretty cool, huh? On your tub specifically, if you are having an issue with it now, why don't you call us and we'll set up a time to come check it out? I'd like to see it, actually, and see if I can figure out what your issue is...strange that the repair didn't hold. Our glaze adheres to itself pretty well, but I do see about once every few years a contamination of some sort in a tub where I've had to dremel out a few millimeters before anything would hold. It's rare, but I've seen it. The material we use is a premium glaze, and at our cost, is $293 a gallon. No one else is allowed to use it, and we've had amazing luck with it. I just went on a job back in October or November around 31st and Harvard area, and did a repair for a woman who dropped a wrench in the tub while swapping the drain. The crazy part? She was 83, doing it herself, and had the original receipt from when my dad did the tub in 1989! :) Of course, I didn't charge her for the repair. Seeing the receipt from when I was only seven years old at the time was payment enough. Back to your issue, our glaze is the best possible glaze anyone can get. But there is nothing in this world that could stand the test of time when it comes to water. I 100% stand behind our glaze, and I know for a fact there's nothing better to use. That being said, if your issue isn't a water issue, then the moist comment is a moot point. Maybe you do have that crazy contamination I mentioned before. It's like when a doctor sees a really rare disease and doesn't catch it. When it's flu season and there are flu symptoms, you don't jump to other conclusions. I think that's why my dad thought it was from sitting water. Rare contaminations have the symptoms of sitting water, but don't necessarily always act that way. Again-I'd like to see it. It may be something where I beat the crap out it with a dremel and 40 grit sandpaper, fill it in again, and perhaps lay down a permanent, non-slip (good looking) mat, or glaze the area again. If it's a contamination in the porcelain, a mat may be best. If I can see it, I can tell you. Lastly, I really like your Ronald Reagan quote.

Don't encourage him!!  He is in a 12 step plan.... trying to recover from Republicontin-ism!!

If Reagan were alive today the most current Republicans would call him a socialist and deride him for wanting immigration reform.  Funny how that works.

True.

Sadly, that really isn't very funny.  It is tragic how the Hijacked Republican Party - HRB - has become so infested with radicalism.