The old store at 11th and Harvard is taking on a new persona. After spending decades housing any number of marginal businesses it is being remodeled into the new Massad Dental Center. Looks a bunch better with its new "suit of clothes."
When was it a Safeway? I never knew that, it was always a pawn shop as long as I could remember.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 11, 2009, 03:26:19 PM
When was it a Safeway? I never knew that, it was always a pawn shop as long as I could remember.
I can't really say when it was a Safeway. I do know a few people that know about it and some even worked there. My mother-in-law who is 86 says she remembers it very well. From the style of the construction I would guess the building is from the thirties or forties.
My guess would be that they closed it when the new Safeway was built @ 15th and Yale in the mid 60's. I remember going to the one on 11th a few times.
Quote from: Bumby on June 12, 2009, 06:55:41 PM
My guess would be that they closed it when the new Safeway was built @ 15th and Yale in the mid 60's. I remember going to the one on 11th a few times.
Went back and quizzed my mother-in-law. She tells me she did in fact shop at this Safeway in the late sixties. So, looks like your guess is right on.
They have the new entryway completed which have been moved around to the west. Don't know about that pea green color though.
Quote from: citizen72 on June 14, 2009, 11:17:04 PM
Don't know about that pea green color though.
Aww, I like the color...
The old lady is going to have a new dress that is for sure. There is going to be stone on each of the pilasters and accent lighting on each as well.
pssst...anybody got a pic? I'm too lazy to do a drive by.
Quote from: citizen72 on June 16, 2009, 10:52:14 PM
The old lady is going to have a new dress that is for sure. There is going to be stone on each of the pilasters and accent lighting on each as well.
...with banks of 400-watt floodlights pointing almost straight up...
Swell, every dentists office needs that. Maybe they have slot machines in the waiting room.
Quote from: patric on June 17, 2009, 05:03:26 PM
...with banks of 400-watt floodlights pointing almost straight up...
Swell, every dentists office needs that. Maybe they have slot machines in the waiting room.
Are you making that up or do you know for sure?
I always liked the old pawn shop building and the interesting corner. This is an abomination. "They've" bricked over the windows; added a strange "crown;" glued on some fake looking stone; paved and fenced in the corner.
It gives me the creeps.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2588/3725115935_45fd8a2f5d.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2435/3725115911_c33b609e19.jpg?v=0)
It doesn't look very inviting to me.
It looks much better than the abandoned building that was there or the empty lot that custom in Tulsa would have made it. Not too mention, having a dental office at that location is much better IMHO than a pawn shop. The guy has spent serious money bringing this building up to code (I stopped and spoke with them last fall). But I agree, architecturally I would have preferred accenting the features of the old building instead of covering them up.
Fwiw, the parking lot fence and the stone is meant to reflect the University of Tulsa campus across the street.
Quote from: citizen72 on June 18, 2009, 07:55:27 PM
Are you making that up or do you know for sure?
Saw it lit up last night last night but was racing home to beat the storm so I didnt get a picture, but the floodlighting is gaudy and overpowering.
This thing is a disaster. The pawn shop had a cool look and could've been made in to a very cool....anything. The color is tasteless, the fenced in parking lot is fug and this is one of the most notable examples of bad design I've ever seen. I live a few blocks from this catastrophe and would much rather drive by the old pawn shop. It's sad when the shady check cashing hut and the Buccaneer Bar look like architectural marvels next to your gaudy windowless trash pile of a building. The whole corner has tons of potential and yet we have a worn looking Harvard Liquor (though the building is still cool and the guys that run it are really nice), a dumpy check cashing business and now Massaud's (sp?).
Oh yeah...No offense.
Wow, they turned it into a little big box store.
Quote from: JoeMommaBlake on July 17, 2009, 01:50:39 AM
This thing is a disaster. The pawn shop had a cool look and could've been made in to a very cool....anything. The color is tasteless, the fenced in parking lot is fug and this is one of the most notable examples of bad design I've ever seen. I live a few blocks from this catastrophe and would much rather drive by the old pawn shop. It's sad when the shady check cashing hut and the Buccaneer Bar look like architectural marvels next to your gaudy. windowless trash pile of a building. The whole corner has tons of potential and yet we have a worn looking Harvard Liquor (though the building is still cool and the guys that run it are really nice), a dumpy check cashing business and now Massaud's (sp?).
Oh yeah...No offense.
+1
Go Joe!
Does anyone have pictures of this when it was a Safeway? Or, for that matter, any pics of 11th and Harvard from the 20s-50s? Beryl Ford has one in the collection but it's facing west - nothing showing east which still has some original buildings.
Quote from: tulsabug on July 20, 2009, 03:41:43 AM
Does anyone have pictures of this when it was a Safeway? Or, for that matter, any pics of 11th and Harvard from the 20s-50s? Beryl Ford has one in the collection but it's facing west - nothing showing east which still has some original buildings.
try going through the Beryl Ford online collection from the Tulsa Library. THey have it broken down into streets.
Quote from: joiei on July 20, 2009, 02:02:38 PM
try going through the Beryl Ford online collection from the Tulsa Library. THey have it broken down into streets.
It's still tough though. Sometimes a picture wasn't labeled real well. This shows promise, though...I'm not sure if this is the right Safeway:
From the Beryl Ford Collection:
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/B7560.jpg)
Quote from: Hoss on July 20, 2009, 02:21:09 PM
This shows promise, though...I'm not sure if this is the right Safeway:
I'm going to say no, because the building in question does not have room to the West for a gas station. It is a parking lot now, dedicated to the building, and probably would have been for a grocery store. Even if it was not, the area is probably not big enough for a Texaco. Perhaps more importantly, the building is smaller, has a flat roof, and had no raised storefront until one "tower" was recently added.
But kudos for finding an old Tulsa Safeway!
I went to the Beryl Ford collection and went to the Safeway stores, about page #280something. There were a ton of pictures but I had no idea if any were that building. Where did all those old buildings go anyway. It looks like there was more than one Safeway downtown in the old days.
Yea, I've been through all the Safeway photos Beryl had but no dice unfortunately. 11th and Harvard gets oddly skipped over - I wonder if there are still more pics to scan in from that area.
Oddly enough - I have run across this pic of a Safeway at 3rd and Elwood which is a dead ringer for the one on 11th and Harvard. (pic is from 1962)
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/B0603.jpg)
from the other direction you can see the 320 Building:
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/B0599.jpg)
I'd just love to find any pics from the 11th and Harvard area, especially of the old Sinclair station and the buildings around it which are still intact.
The store in tulsabug's picture was there until it was demolished for the BOK Center. Sticking up behind it is the Children's Day Nursery, also still standing (and in operation) until demolished for the BOK Center. (US 64 and Oklahoma 51 traveled through downtown Tulsa on 15th, Denver, and 3rd, connecting to Charles Page Blvd.)
As for the store Hoss found, it's definitely a later generation. The 1957 Yellow Pages lists Safeways at:
509 N. Denver (just southwest of the newer Safeway that became the Tulsa County Election Board)
Cincinnati & Apache (southeast of the intersection; my guess for Hoss's photo; old gas station just to the west; 222 E Apache according to Polk)
1447 N. Lewis (EZ Pawn)
3730 S. Peoria (Charleston's on Brookside)
1840 Utica Square (Polk dir has 1940 Utica Sq.)
1802 S. Quanah (Polk has 1802 Southwest Blvd)
407 W. 3rd St. (the one in tulsabug's photo)
Pine & Sheridan Road (Stow's Office Furniture -- another downtown business displaced by the BOK Center)
3314 E 11th St. (the new dentist office)
3932 E. Admiral Pl. (Dollar General)
1624 E. 15th St. (Panera on Cherry St.)
3315 E. 32nd St. (Ranch Acres)
4804 E. 11th St. (parking lot for Tally's)
1706 S. Boston (antique store)
2615 W. 41st St. (Polk has 4074 Southwest Blvd)
1624 E. Third
317 E. 2nd, Sand Springs
Good Lord, Michael, they were almost as prolific as QT is today. I wonder if Yeakey's (sp?) grocery just east of Lincoln school was there in 1957? Seems like they closed about 20 years ago.
The building where Yeakey's was located (now Camille's) was a Sipes in 1957. The Sipes listings from the '57 phone book:
7800 E Admiral Pl (Eastgate)
1338 E 15th St
541 N Denver Ave
2710 S. Harvard Ave
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/A0141.jpg)
Quote from: MichaelBates on July 21, 2009, 05:31:25 PM
The building where Yeakey's was located (now Camille's) was a Sipes in 1957. The Sipes listings from the '57 phone book:
7800 E Admiral Pl (Eastgate)
1338 E 15th St
541 N Denver Ave
2710 S. Harvard Ave
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/A0141.jpg)
Lord, I remember that 15th St. Sipes. I believe it remained a Sipes at least until 1972 (when I lived in that area). I can remember trips there with my Mother. Wow.
Also looks like the building remains as something else. Good to see they renovated and didn't destroy it.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=Cd32scRaiwJzFbNzJwIdo45H-g&q=1338+E+15th+St+Tulsa,+OK+74120&sll=36.140613,-95.971005&sspn=0.011905,0.027874&g=1338+E+15th+St+Tulsa,+OK+74120&ie=UTF8&ll=36.140123,-95.972834&spn=0.002976,0.006968&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=36.140632,-95.974047&panoid=ZzRnPID_6pS2Ulgcsc-Oow&cbp=12,166.49,,0,8.53
I may have my stores messed up but I think Sound Warehouse moved in there for awhile before it got sub-divided all out.
Yea - it was a Sound Warehouse for a while before 15th became yuppie central and the commercial rent all skyrocketed. That Sipes store is just gorgeous so it's nice it's been preserved.
Quote from: MichaelBates on July 21, 2009, 01:02:54 PM
As for the store Hoss found, it's definitely a later generation. The 1957 Yellow Pages lists Safeways at:
509 N. Denver (just southwest of the newer Safeway that became the Tulsa County Election Board)
Cincinnati & Apache (southeast of the intersection; my guess for Hoss's photo; old gas station just to the west; 222 E Apache according to Polk)
1447 N. Lewis (EZ Pawn)
3730 S. Peoria (Charleston's on Brookside)
1840 Utica Square (Polk dir has 1940 Utica Sq.)
1802 S. Quanah (Polk has 1802 Southwest Blvd)
407 W. 3rd St. (the one in tulsabug's photo)
Pine & Sheridan Road (Stow's Office Furniture -- another downtown business displaced by the BOK Center)
3314 E 11th St. (the new dentist office)
3932 E. Admiral Pl. (Dollar General)
1624 E. 15th St. (Panera on Cherry St.)
3315 E. 32nd St. (Ranch Acres)
4804 E. 11th St. (parking lot for Tally's)
1706 S. Boston (antique store)
2615 W. 41st St. (Polk has 4074 Southwest Blvd)
1624 E. Third
317 E. 2nd, Sand Springs
And within a few years, you can add to the list 15th & Yale (where Walgreens is today), 15th & S. Lewis (SW corner) and 31st & Sheridan in the original Boman Acres shopping center (approx. where the tacky bingo place is now.) Safeways were everywhere through the 1960s and then began to disappear, all gone by early 1980s.
The 15th & Yale Safeway and the 15th & Lewis one were the 1960s "arch top" design like the 11th & Denver store was; the 31st & Sheridan was more conventional, built into the middle of the Boman Acres strip center.
Quote from: carltonplace on July 17, 2009, 12:58:27 PM
Wow, they turned it into a little big box store.
Perfect description. That thing is double-butt-ugly.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 22, 2009, 12:20:58 AM
I may have my stores messed up but I think Sound Warehouse moved in there for awhile before it got sub-divided all out.
Yeah, that's what my Mother told me speaking to her last night...
Quote from: Steve on July 22, 2009, 08:04:01 AM
And within a few years, you can add to the list 15th & Yale (where Walgreens is today), 15th & S. Lewis (SW corner) and 31st & Sheridan in the original Boman Acres shopping center (approx. where the tacky bingo place is now.) Safeways were everywhere through the 1960s and then began to disappear, all gone by early 1980s.
The 15th & Yale Safeway and the 15th & Lewis one were the 1960s "arch top" design like the 11th & Denver store was; the 31st & Sheridan was more conventional, built into the middle of the Boman Acres strip center.
Wasn't there one at 11th and Memorial also? One of the 'arch top' designs?
Although it doesn't currently look like it now, I seem to remember one being there on the southwest corner of the intersection.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=36.147561,-95.886612&spn=0,359.98071&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=36.147354,-95.886661&panoid=yAt9bjRwVfC2kuLi0GssCQ&cbp=12,262.35,,0,-3.46
Quote from: Hoss on July 22, 2009, 08:51:50 AM
Wasn't there one at 11th and Memorial also? One of the 'arch top' designs?
Although it doesn't currently look like it now, I seem to remember one being there on the southwest corner of the intersection.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=36.147561,-95.886612&spn=0,359.98071&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=36.147354,-95.886661&panoid=yAt9bjRwVfC2kuLi0GssCQ&cbp=12,262.35,,0,-3.46
Yes that was a Safeway, and don't forget there was one on Denver just north of Edison that I think is home to the county election board. (My bad, I see it has been listed previously.)
I, too, was amazed by all the Safeway stores in the Beryl Ford Collection.
This one still exists at 18th and Boston:
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/A0229.jpg)
I can't identify these, but I thought they were cool...
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D4729.jpg)
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D4735.jpg)
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D4736.jpg)
Oooh! A "commercial use" right smack dab next to residential! Call the zoning police! (Oh, wait. That was before zoning "fixed" everything...)
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D4740.jpg)
Mixed use, too!
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D4768.jpg)
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D4779.jpg)
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D4756.jpg)
Why is this one familiar...?
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D7098.jpg)
The churches are still there.
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D5471.jpg)
This one says 18th and Quannah (is that underneath US-75 now?)
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/A2324.jpg)
Quote from: PonderInc on July 22, 2009, 05:18:20 PM
I, too, was amazed by all the Safeway stores in the Beryl Ford Collection.
Why is this one familiar...?
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D7098.jpg)
11th and Birmingham Place. Right across from BAMA.
Quote from: TURobY on July 22, 2009, 08:39:11 PM
11th and Birmingham Place. Right across from BAMA.
I almost hate to notice but I did. The mini towers with the roof sloping in four directions. Nothing is new.
My first job in high school was the 24hr Safeway at 3rd and Trenton. I believe its still there and was one of those arched designs. Lots of mosaic along the entry ways too. They were proud of their modern design buildings that provided more open space inside and the exposed laminated beams were impressive. Had to join the union to make 90 cents an hour (plus tips). My friends all worked at the Foodtown down the street a half mile. My job was bagger, carryout, floor clean up and sorting of returned pop bottles (ugh!)
Safeway was a well run chain but was done in by greed in the eighties. The cost of labor was deemed too high. This was before scanners. A good, experienced checker was expensive but absolutely essential. The unions protected their high wages. In response, Safeway closed the stores and sold them to another company called Homeland. All the employees were fired of course, then rehired at lower wages with a loss of benefits. Homeland was a mere reconstituted Safeway. Same owners, new name. The practice became a popular and effective way to lower labor cost and destroy unions. Of course a few years later the scanners and WalMart changed everything.
At least that was the story at the time. Safeway's only true competitors at the time were the Affiliated and IGA type operations which were private grocery stores (Yeakey's, Foodtown, Sipes, etc.) that used cooperative buying schemes to keep trucking, warehousing and food costs low. And of course, there was the Packard Cab of grocery operations, Warehouse Market. I really miss those stores and their personal touch. The managers/owners were onsite working and serving their neighborhoods. Their advertising was clever and helpful. WalMart doesn't measure up.
A grocery chain in the Philly area called "Penn Fruit Co" also used arched roof design buildings in the 1950s. I have no idea who the architect was.
Quote from: TURobY on July 22, 2009, 08:39:11 PM
11th and Birmingham Place. Right across from BAMA.
I wish someone would rehab that building into new retail and some loft units. It's a great example of Tulsa architecture.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 22, 2009, 10:42:17 PM
I wish someone would rehab that building into new retail and some loft units. It's a great example of Tulsa architecture.
Not too long ago, there was someone looking at using the bottom for convention space and the top floors for boutique hotel. Haven't heard anything on that for about 6 months though.
Thanks to everyone that has shared pictures and history in this thread! I am blown away. Great stuff.
Quote from: TURobY on July 22, 2009, 10:47:25 PM
Not too long ago, there was someone looking at using the bottom for convention space and the top floors for boutique hotel. Haven't heard anything on that for about 6 months though.
For what the owners of that building want for rent, it doesn't surprise me that every store in it left and no one is going in. We looked at renting out the corner where the Safeway was at about 13 years ago. It had been a body shop for years so the interior was in poor shape (though the patterned ceiling was still original and looked good). It had no central air (and I believe no heat). They wanted about $3000 a month for it - 13 years ago! Heck - I didn't ask (couldn't stop laughing at the guy on the phone when he told me what a great deal it was) but it was probably triple net too.
I just spent 3 hours compulsively searching on the Ford collection. Found out that a Safeway once resided in the building right next to the old Lousiane that is now Pink. Apparently they later moved over to Boston Ave. Anyway, the Lousiane went through an awful face lift somewhere between 1939 and 1967 that totally ruined its facade. The building is now for sale btw.
The library search engine is strange. You find stuff by accident as much as by design.
Quote from: waterboy on July 22, 2009, 10:15:37 PM
My first job in high school was the 24hr Safeway at 3rd and Trenton. I believe its still there and was one of those arched designs. Lots of mosaic along the entry ways too. They were proud of their modern design buildings that provided more open space inside and the exposed laminated beams were impressive. Had to join the union to make 90 cents an hour (plus tips). My friends all worked at the Foodtown down the street a half mile. My job was bagger, carryout, floor clean up and sorting of returned pop bottles (ugh!)
Safeway was a well run chain but was done in by greed in the eighties. The cost of labor was deemed too high. This was before scanners. A good, experienced checker was expensive but absolutely essential. The unions protected their high wages. In response, Safeway closed the stores and sold them to another company called Homeland. All the employees were fired of course, then rehired at lower wages with a loss of benefits. Homeland was a mere reconstituted Safeway. Same owners, new name. The practice became a popular and effective way to lower labor cost and destroy unions. Of course a few years later the scanners and WalMart changed everything.
At least that was the story at the time. Safeway's only true competitors at the time were the Affiliated and IGA type operations which were private grocery stores (Yeakey's, Foodtown, Sipes, etc.) that used cooperative buying schemes to keep trucking, warehousing and food costs low. And of course, there was the Packard Cab of grocery operations, Warehouse Market. I really miss those stores and their personal touch. The managers/owners were onsite working and serving their neighborhoods. Their advertising was clever and helpful. WalMart doesn't measure up.
When I lived in Denver I shopped at Safeway and it was the nicest non-Whole Foods/Central Market grocery store I've ever been in. They are all over Colorado, is it the same Safeway that used to operate in Oklahoma and is now Homeland? You know Homeland is okay, and I like that they're locally owned, but compared to Safeway, HEB, Albertson's, or even the newer Reasor's it's pretty subpar.
I haven't kept up with ownership since the early 90's. I heard they had gone through several different owner groups. I agree, they are not the same quality as the old Safeway. The market is very competitive in grocery, with a low margin. They lost lots of motivated, quality employees in favor of technology/low wages and lots of quality merchandising in favor of low price. Thanks WalMart.
It looks like they mostly competed with location during the 1920's through the 1960's. Lots of smaller stores, conveniently located. When the suburbs exploded they had to change their plan to one of "super" markets and that's a different game.
Quote from: PonderInc on July 22, 2009, 05:18:20 PM
I, too, was amazed by all the Safeway stores in the Beryl Ford Collection.
Why is this one familiar...?
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D7098.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Safeway.jpg)
It's a different angle but this is it today. Some suttle changes but overall the same.
If you'll notice, they took the original brick column out of what is the NW corner of the building and instead of it having a 90 degree corner, it's now about a 45 degree angle and they added the roll-up door for the body shop.
I'm curious why they would have modified the corner and gotten rid of the original brick and poured column. I'm almost wondering if someone ran into the building and it was a cheaper fix to install a steel post and slant the front opening. Anyone remember something like that happening. I hate to think this property will continue to deteriorate then be bought by Bama (if it hasn't already) and turned into more surface parking. I wish the Marshall/Chapman family would buy it and turn it into something nice.
I don't know when the change to the entrance was, and the lsat thing I remember being there was the body shop for Brad Noe and before that I think it the body shop for DB Wilkerson Chevy. I want to say in the 70's it was some sort of bridal/dress shop and I think the change of the entrance was before that. Could the change have been made when they took away the angeld parking in front?