Does anyone know how the MASSIVE parking lot came about behind the new Chipotle, Mongolian Grille, etc? Seems way more than would be required but I could be wrong. I had heard that the original plans were for a much larger development so I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it.
two restaurants in that building = lots of damn parking required. The Malling of Cherry St. advances.
I think all your questions were discussed here http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=12736.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=12736.0)
Because Chipotle is an "eating establishment," the Tulsa zoning code requires:
1 parking space per 100 SF of floor area.
Because the zoning code requires parking spaces to be, on average, 9x18 (162 SF of asphalt), and the aisles between rows of parking to be, on average, 22' wide...each parking space consumes approx 261 SF of space.
(I divided the 22' aisle in half, and multiplied by the 9' width of a parking space to come up with the area of "aisle" associated with each space.)
To summarize: 100 SF of restaurant floor space requires 261 SF of surface parking.
The developer could have gone to the BOA for a parking variance, but they presumably did not. Until the TMAPC begins dealing with our excessive and destructive parking requirements, residential areas adjacent to Cherry Street and Brookside will continue to be destroyed for parking. (Chipotle already destroyed a duplex on the south side of Cherry Street for parking at their first proposed site.)
2.61 feet of surface parking for each foot of usable space? So TCC was doing it right all along. One block built up, ~3 blocks of surface parking. That makes for a lively, dense, efficient, and walkable area for sure!
Of course, the alternative is asking out fat butts to walk a block or so to find parking. And I for one find that UNACCEPTABLE.
VERY important to get new zoning for these areas and similar areas in Tulsa before it's too late. For many homes adjoining Cherry Street and Brookside it already is too late but others can be saved in the future. Hell parking should be fine with the new lots recently built in both districts. A Cherry Street parking deck in front of Jason's Deli/Chimi's with a retail/restaurant space at the SE corner of 15th & Peoria would be nice if business owners and the City would help fund it. That and the existing lots represent plenty of parking for years to come, no new surface lots (underground parking is always welcomed however).
How did the starbucks / pei wei get away with so little parking? I am surpised the chipotle developer did not try to get a variance. I agree, changes need to happen.
I'm not sure I would want to concede the corner of 15th and Peoria to a parking structure. That's a pretty important corner to make a statement on and while I understand the private sector probably won't convert the surface parking currently there to building I don't think I would be hip to the public doing it for them. Tuck the parking structrure away, at least let it attempt to hide within the Cherry St. streetscape.
Overlay zoning wouldn't be difficult to establish there. Reduce the parking requirement whether a public structure is established or not, establish some building height limitations, create build-to lines on 15th St.
Quote from: OurTulsa on July 07, 2009, 05:27:03 PM
I'm not sure I would want to concede the corner of 15th and Peoria to a parking structure. That's a pretty important corner to make a statement on and while I understand the private sector probably won't convert the surface parking currently there to building I don't think I would be hip to the public doing it for them. Tuck the parking structrure away, at least let it attempt to hide within the Cherry St. streetscape.
Overlay zoning wouldn't be difficult to establish there. Reduce the parking requirement whether a public structure is established or not, establish some building height limitations, create build-to lines on 15th St.
They're both fairly small spaces and that building comes completely wrapped in parking. They probably comply.
Quote from: SXSW on July 07, 2009, 03:44:54 PM
VERY important to get new zoning for these areas and similar areas in Tulsa before it's too late. For many homes adjoining Cherry Street and Brookside it already is too late but others can be saved in the future. Hell parking should be fine with the new lots recently built in both districts. A Cherry Street parking deck in front of Jason's Deli/Chimi's with a retail/restaurant space at the SE corner of 15th & Peoria would be nice if business owners and the City would help fund it. That and the existing lots represent plenty of parking for years to come, no new surface lots (underground parking is always welcomed however).
I like the architecture and look of the old building the Deli/Chimis is in. Its a great looking anchor for that corner of Cherry Street. A parking structure in front of them would be an abomination imo.
+1
Here's an old postcard of the former Lincoln School. As I recall it took a lot of work and money and effort to save the building and repurpose it. Thank goodness someone cared enough to do it.
(http://www.familyoldphotos.com/5c/images/sep/OKtulsa-lincolnschool.jpg)
Quote from: PonderInc on July 08, 2009, 11:22:29 AM
Here's an old postcard of the former Lincoln School. As I recall it took a lot of work and money and effort to save the building and repurpose it. Thank goodness someone cared enough to do it.
(http://www.familyoldphotos.com/5c/images/sep/OKtulsa-lincolnschool.jpg)
Brings back memories; my kindergarten year was spent there in 1972-1973.
I wouldn't advocate a garish parking garage like you would find at 2nd & Cheyenne, but rather a simple parking deck over the existing surface lot with plenty of landscaping around it and on top. The existing lot could be placed a few feet underground so then with 8' ft. clearance the deck wouldn't block the view of the buildings behind it. If it means no more new parking lots along Cherry Street and more density I'd take it.
Cherry Street definitely deserves a "retail wrapped" parking garage. Here's a parking garage / retail / office development in Boulder, CO. (Not a great picture, but you get the idea. It doesn't look like a parking garage.)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2216/2249226971_276f805054.jpg?v=0)
Quote from: PonderInc on July 08, 2009, 11:22:29 AM
Here's an old postcard of the former Lincoln School. As I recall it took a lot of work and money and effort to save the building and repurpose it. Thank goodness someone cared enough to do it.
(http://www.familyoldphotos.com/5c/images/sep/OKtulsa-lincolnschool.jpg)
Worth noting that it didn't require closing down. It was part of an eclectic neighborhood crossroads that included a restaurant, a grocery, a bakery, a bar and a church all within a half block of each other. It was such an appetizing parcel for commercial development that it just couldn't be left as a school. My kid played baseball where the parking lot now sits. The kids from Lincoln were stuffed into Lee where a building even older than Lincoln somehow accommodated them. Now the neighborhood is even more child dense and hankering for walkability for such businesses and a good neighborhood school.
The irony is that it is not a very good retail spot and has been the demise of many who have located there. It is fine for a a couple restaurants, bars and a coffee shop though. We will never learn.