Found someone who posted this on another forum I frequent:
QuoteDear Premium Seat Holder,
CONFIDENTIAL:
We have some exciting news for the City of Tulsa and want you to be among the first to know that city officials and a group of private investors are working to bring a WNBA team to Tulsa. We would like to extend an exclusive invitation to you as a BOK Center premium seats ticket holder to join us along with other community leaders for a reception at the arena for this exciting announcement on Wednesday, July 22. This will be your opportunity to personally meet WNBA President, Donna Orender, who will be attending this exclusive event. Currently, a group of investors is making strides in securing the necessary capital to bring a franchise to Tulsa and is in negotiations with the BOK Center to secure a lease agreement. The WNBA would bring 17 women's professional basketball games to Tulsa and put our city on a national stage with New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and other major cities.
Bringing the WNBA to Tulsa is a civic investment that will add to the quality of life and benefit the growth and revitalization of downtown. It will provide positive encouragement and influence to young women, men and aspiring athletes.
We need your support in this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for our city. Please join us on July 22 as we welcome President Orender and learn more about what the WNBA means for Tulsa. Your invitation is attached with more information on how to RSVP.
We look forward to having you join us.
Leela: Femputer, be reasonable. Sure men are annoying and they wreck up whatever planet they're in charge of, but most of these men are sorta my friends. They don't deserve to die.
Femputer: Hmm. Perhaps men are not as evil as Femputer thinks.
Thog: But they make fun women's basketball.
Femputer: What? Did you explain how the women's good fundamentals make up for their inability to dunk?
Ornik: Yes. They still laugh.
Femputer: The men must die.
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:T0_4xD4dZGzs-M:http://www.mundosimpson.com.ar/futurama/episodios/3acv01.jpg)
Having a sister who plays basketball, I know that they can be every bit as exciting as men's games.
We already have the requisite gay bars downtown to support the fans.
Most of the horse shows are at the fairgrounds...
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/article.aspx?articleID=20080722_226_B1_hWOMEN242874
Quote from: TheTed on July 17, 2009, 11:58:14 AM
We already have the requisite gay bars downtown to support the fans.
?
I would rather watch mens basketball or soccer. Matter of fact I would rather the city and any possible corporate sponsors put their time and effort nurturing MLS in Tulsa. I am willing to bet far more people would be willing to watch that than Womens Basketball.
Quote from: TheArtist on July 17, 2009, 04:34:53 PM
?
I believe he's referring to the rampant lesbianism this will bring to our fair city.
I can't be positive.
Quote from: Townsend on July 17, 2009, 04:37:53 PM
I believe he's referring to the rampant lesbianism this will bring to our fair city.
I can't be positive.
The lesbian bars aren't downtown.
Quote from: TheArtist on July 17, 2009, 04:39:09 PM
The lesbian bars aren't downtown.
Not supporting his argument, just interpreting.
Townsend, do you think they would allow flannel shirts and Doc Martens for uniforms in the WNBA?
Sorry couldn't help myself. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsSmEA2FrZs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FGI7R0u3TQ
Quote from: TheArtist on July 17, 2009, 04:34:53 PM
?
I would rather watch mens basketball or soccer. Matter of fact I would rather the city and any possible corporate sponsors put their time and effort nurturing MLS in Tulsa. I am willing to bet far more people would be willing to watch that than Womens Basketball.
Evidently, this effort isn't originating from Tulsa corporate sponsors.....
WNBA to Tulsa? Money matters http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/article.aspx?subjectid=413&articleid=20090721_413_0_AWNBAf333251
Two Oklahoma City businessmen -- Bill Cameron and David Box -- are leading the investment group that will try to bring a team to Tulsa. They are expected to meet the media Wednesday to discuss their efforts and the funds needed to make it happen.
Several thoughts:
1) Tulsa investors?
If Oklahoma City businessmen want to invest in Tulsa, have at it. I am a little disappointed that the lead group in this is from OKC, but investors are investors. Just another sign that Tulsa plays follow the leader in most respects to OKC now I'm afraid.
A press conference today will announce who the Tulsa businessmen are. Look for Mitchell Garret to be among them, just a guess. But he had a stake in the 66ers and purportedly enjoyed being a pro-sports owner and the elbow rubbing it afforded him.
2) Survival of the League:
I have little to no interest in the WNBA, a view shared by many other people apparently, but if private money thinks it will succeed and tax payer money is not involved - that's not really my concern (I'm not that interested in the NBA either so . . .). However, it should be pointed out that teams in Charlotte, Cleveland, Houston, Miami and Portland folded. They just walked away from the league and stopped operating. 2 others relocated. 13 teams now exist. It is apparently a risky business model. I hope we are not set up for failure.
3) Financial Security:
In 2003 the WNBA was supported by $12,000,000 in funding from the NBA. Purportedly the NBA is now losing money as ticket prices are reduced and corporate sponsorships cut way back. The WNBA, according to David Stern, will break even this year.
http://sports.in.msn.com/stories/article.aspx?cp-documentid=3038218
http://tvnz.co.nz/basketball-news/nba-getting-through-tough-times-2539976
Likewise, I will trust the knowledge of investors putting up millions betting on the league over internet naysayers who claim it will fail. I tend to agree with the latter as a gut reaction, but really don't know anything. I'm guessing those actually considering putting cash up know more than I.
4) Quality Jobs:
Professional men's basketball gets funding from the State quality jobs act in Oklahoma City. Does professional women's basketball get such money in Tulsa? The salary cap for the team is around $900,000 with players earning between a minimum of $35,500 and a cap of $100,000 (exclusive of bonuses and wages earned in the off-season playing over seas, Olympics, sponsorships/appearances, etc.). The roster has been cut from 13 to 11 players to stave off economic hardships.
Revenue of the WNBA was $85,000,000. The average NBA team is worth $330mil and the league does $3.2 Billion a year in revenue (MLB $6.2B, NFL $6 bil) (http://www.plunkettresearch.com/Industries/Sports/SportsStatistics/tabid/273/Default.aspx). So I understand it isn't the same thing (or even close), but by the definition of the law these are quality jobs. They pay above average, include insurance, and are creating positions.
Now, include the created exception for the NBA, that professional sports counts, and they should qualify as a quality job. I doubt the WNBA in Tulsa gets the $50mil the NBA got in OKC . . . and I still think it's bogus. But there it is.
5) 17 home games. Average attendance for a WNBA game varies wildly by franchise, from 12,000 in Washington to 3,500 in Chicago. The league average is trending slightly upward around 8,000. Only Chicago averages less than 6,500 and the vast majority of teams are at 8,000 +/- 500 fans. The Tallons averaged ~6,500 fans.
http://womensbasketballonline.com/wnba/attendance/sbsatten.pdf
So lets assume 6,500 fans 17 days a year paying an average of $20 each (the ticket prices are similar to the Tallons, it appears. $15 for cheap seats, $30 for middle of the row, and $90+ for the really nice ones. Based on my limited survey (http://www.teamonetickets.com/wnba-basketball-tickets.html). FWIW, many arenas are also selling parking passes with tickets for $15 - $50. We whine about $5 parking 2 blocks away). That's $2.2 million in ticket revenue for the BOk center, concessions, and 100,000+ people in downtown Tulsa. And, seeing that it only occupies 17 dates, it shouldn't interfere with scheduling of other events at the BOk center (NBA has 40+ dates).
6) Other teams:
Other cities with teams include: Atlanta, Chicago, Conn., Detroit, Indianapolis, NYC, DC, LA, Minneapolis, Phoenix, Sacramento, San Antonio, and Seattle. Not a list of slackers.
Other cities are looking to get teams also, some in the works for about a year and the league seems open to all overtures. Toronto, Nashville, Denver and Baltimore have all expressed interest in or since 2008. Again, not a list of slackers.
7) Big time city?
No, I don't think having an WNBA team puts one on the map the same way the NBA or even the litany of other sports OKC hosts that get it on ESPN from time to time (ie. Softball world series). I could not have told you for sure what cities had a team or not. Frankly, I wouldn't have been able to tell you the season was going on right now.
Frankly, I'd prefer AAA baseball. I'd REALLY like to see an MLS franchise. It's not because the WNBA is a women's sport, while it might play into it on a subconscious level (bias admitted, sorry) - it is the lack of everyone else's interest that matters. It doesn't draw the coverage other sports do. MLS has a Kx with ESPN and you can catch a game almost every night (WNBA has a contract to, not sure why I never see the games). AAA baseball is well known everywhere and has known parties in it. On a national levle, no one really cares about the WNBA. As messed up as that is, it is attention from other people that make it "big time" or not.
Now, it is big time for Tulsa. A typical AF2 team has $1.2mil in revenue (http://www.forbes.com/2005/05/18/cz_el_05ig_af2revenueslide.html) and pays players ~$. A WNBA team apparently has six times that amount of revenue (84mil league revenue / 13). AF2 players make $200 a game, WNBA players ~$1500.
So I don't think this puts Tulsa on the worlds sports map. Frankly, I think it does less than the University of Tulsa's athletic programs do (on national TV ~10 times a year). But it certainly won't hurt. More things going on in Tulsa means more to do. If we can support a WNBA team maybe MLS looks closer at us, maybe the new stadium and other interest brings in a AAA franchise.
8) Name:
If we manage to get the franchise, which I think I'm looking forward to (and will probably attend a game or two a year... as I do the Tallons and Oilers), we will need a name!
A) Oklahoma X or the Tulsa X? Ahh this great debate. I'd vote for Oklahoma on instinct, but since OKC has an NBA team will people associated it automatically with OKC? And if so, do we care?
B) Name. The radio stations have been shooting some horrible pun/offensive names. There has to be some good ones out there!
KRMG WNBA short stat article:
http://krmg.com/blogs/krmg_sports_with_rick_couri/2009/07/will-the-wnba-come-to-tulsa.html
Cannon Fodder - thanks for the first serious reply to this topic.
(Everyone else on the forum is 12 years old...but, you, sir, wear the grown-up-boy pants...)
A couple points:
1. We already have the facility, so let's play. It's not one of those "if you build it we will come" deals that so many professional (mens) teams demand. We've got a great arena. Let's fill it up with events. (And make more money.) (And attract more visitors from throughout the region!)
2. Although some of the fellers on this forum don't appear to be fans of women's sports, I can assure you that they exist. Want proof? Go to a (frequently sold out) OU women's basketball game (2007-2008 average attendance: 10,254. 3rd in the nation for women's b-ball). (Last year, the OU men--with a first round NBA draft pick--averaged 11,490.)
3. If you've ever been to a women's basketball game, you'll notice that the majority of fans are (gasp!) families and seniors! It seems that the younger generation of fans doesn't discriminate based on gender (at last!); families can better afford the ticket price of a women's game; and the older generation likes watching "good fundamentals" (you know, like teamwork, defense, and players who can make their freethrows).
Oklahoma got a slow start when it comes to women's basketball. (We were still playing six-on-six in Oklahoma high schools until 1995. OU cancelled its women's b-ball program for a short time in 1990.) But as soon as Sheri Coale started kicking a$s in high-heels (standard-issue prophylactic used to prevent lesbian jokes from insecure doofus types), a lot of folks changed their minds pretty quickly about the game.
Tulsa has a great opportunity. Let's not blow it with cynicism and thinly-veiled sexism.
Quote from: PonderInc on July 22, 2009, 04:54:33 PM
Cannon Fodder - thanks for the first serious reply to this topic.
(Everyone else on the forum is 12 years old...but, you, sir, wear the grown-up-boy pants...)
A couple points:
1. We already have the facility, so let's play. It's not one of those "if you build it we will come" deals that so many professional (mens) teams demand. We've got a great arena. Let's fill it up with events. (And make more money.) (And attract more visitors from throughout the region!)
2. Although some of the fellers on this forum don't appear to be fans of women's sports, I can assure you that they exist. Want proof? Go to a (frequently sold out) OU women's basketball game (2007-2008 average attendance: 10,254. 3rd in the nation for women's b-ball). (Last year, the OU men--with a first round NBA draft pick--averaged 11,490.)
3. If you've ever been to a women's basketball game, you'll notice that the majority of fans are (gasp!) families and seniors! It seems that the younger generation of fans doesn't discriminate based on gender (at last!); families can better afford the ticket price of a women's game; and the older generation likes watching "good fundamentals" (you know, like teamwork, defense, and players who can make their freethrows).
Oklahoma got a slow start when it comes to women's basketball. (We were still playing six-on-six in Oklahoma high schools until 1995. OU cancelled its women's b-ball program for a short time in 1990.) But as soon as Sheri Coale started kicking a$s in high-heels (standard-issue prophylactic used to prevent lesbian jokes from insecure doofus types), a lot of folks changed their minds pretty quickly about the game.
Tulsa has a great opportunity. Let's not blow it with cynicism and thinly-veiled sexism.
I just can't help but think they're putting the cart before the horse here. The WNBA has already stated that they are in dire financial straits. Several teams folded, they've scaled the roster back from 13 to 11, and other problem areas.
Can you imagine the guffawing from everyone when/if we should get this franchise if the WNBA folds? What to do then? If the CHL or AF2 folds, big deal; it was a minor league and we could find others. But the WNBA is tied to the NBA forever more.
I think they better get financials from the league before committing.
Quote from: PonderInc on July 22, 2009, 04:54:33 PM
Cannon Fodder - thanks for the first serious reply to this topic.
(Everyone else on the forum is 12 years old...but, you, sir, wear the grown-up-boy pants...)
Fair enough.......
vision of a Tulsa woman-with-baby-stroller touring WalMart parking lots comes to mind.....
My sexist, conspiracy theory, kneejerk first reaction would be that some OKC-ers are only doing this so they can emasculate Tulsa-- not fair, I know.... but after all, WNBA in Tulsa has been brought up by certain "Average Joes" on this forum in the past to try to "feminize" MLS and men's soccer while arguing for a publicly funded ballpark..... my more realistic theory is that OKC is pretty much tapped out on corporate support for the NBA, that luring the AHL to replace the Blazers is more important to them than hosting a WNBA team, so they lack the financials... and they're testing the waters in Tulsa...
Quote
A couple points:
1. We already have the facility, so let's play. It's not one of those "if you build it we will come" deals that so many professional (mens) teams demand. We've got a great arena. Let's fill it up with events. (And make more money.) (And attract more visitors from throughout the region!)
Valid point.
Of course, we could have saved tens of millions of dollars by not going "iconic" with our arena and actually built the stadium Lamar Hunt and MLS requested for around $60mil back in 2003-- and if private funds could have been spent for that purpose rather than paying somebody $10mil to design three man-made islands in the middle of the Arkansas, who knows?... but I digress... yes, a 100% sales tax funded iconic arena has been built, so why not house another pro team in it that can pay rent?
However, I would also argue that the WNBA would not be a real possibility for Tulsa if OKC had not already done the massive civic improvements, and Clay Bennett hadn't already spent hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the Sonics and move them from Seattle. In one sense, the WNBA exists for the most part due to the largesse of the NBA and Tulsa's opportunity only exists due to OKC's efforts..... conversely, if OKC had spent tens of millions of dollars to lure an MLS team to play in Edmond and that team's "owner-investors" wanted to have a Tulsa WPS team-- http://www.womensprosoccer.com/ --playing at the new ballpark or the old Driller Park, well sure.... why not?
Quote
2. Although some of the fellers on this forum don't appear to be fans of women's sports, I can assure you that they exist. Want proof? Go to a (frequently sold out) OU women's basketball game (2007-2008 average attendance: 10,254. 3rd in the nation for women's b-ball). (Last year, the OU men--with a first round NBA draft pick--averaged 11,490.)
A few months before moving here from Chicago, I wanted to go see the NCAA women's 2nd round tourney game at the Rosemont Horizon for TU versus DePaul. I would have been an hour late so I watched the game at home on ESPN. Great crowd, although Ray Meyer had just died and the game was unique for that reason.... still, fun to watch, emotional win for DePaul when TU outplayed them for the most part...
Quote
3. If you've ever been to a women's basketball game, you'll notice that the majority of fans are (gasp!) families and seniors! It seems that the younger generation of fans doesn't discriminate based on gender (at last!); families can better afford the ticket price of a women's game; and the older generation likes watching "good fundamentals" (you know, like teamwork, defense, and players who can make their freethrows).
Silly Ponder... only lesbians play and watch basketball.... and only hispanics play and watch soccer.... :P
I dont know what the "emasculazation" thing is about. I have always considered Tulsa to be a beautiful, classy lady and OKC her big, dusty, cowboy brother lol. At this point with what I now know about whats going on, I say lets go for it. I would actually go to the games to support the local team. I may be completely wrong, but it has seemed to me that Tulsa isnt really a big, "lets go to a sports game" type of town, (except for golf perhaps). But I think as our demographics change, and the character of our city is starting to change, I think we will start to get out and be more supportive of the local teams. And indeed, I dont see that we have anything to lose by trying the WNBA thing here, and if it works it could be a plus for landing MLS by being one more example of how Tulsa does support its sports teams.
I think this lady Rollerderby thing is set to take off big time. I would like to see something like that downtown instead of out in Broken Arrow. I can't bring myself to drive out to BA.
Quote from: brianh on July 23, 2009, 10:41:59 AM
I think this lady Rollerderby thing is set to take off big time. I would like to see something like that downtown instead of out in Broken Arrow. I can't bring myself to drive out to BA.
Thank you. I think the same thing every time I see a poster of theirs.
I know teams in other cities play at an older arena downtown or something. It'd be great to see some Tulsa roller derby, with beer served, of course, at the Convention Center arena on Saturday nights. Seems like a perfect fit. I can't imagine their target audience lives anywhere near Broken Arrow.
Quote from: TheTed on July 23, 2009, 11:58:02 AM
Thank you. I think the same thing every time I see a poster of theirs.
I know teams in other cities play at an older arena downtown or something. It'd be great to see some Tulsa roller derby, with beer served, of course, at the Convention Center arena on Saturday nights. Seems like a perfect fit. I can't imagine their target audience lives anywhere near Broken Arrow.
I lived in BA for years. Trust me, there is a roller derby target audience.
Quote from: USRufnex on July 22, 2009, 10:40:21 PM
Fair enough....... vision of a Tulsa woman-with-baby-stroller touring WalMart parking lots comes to mind.....
My sexist, conspiracy theory, kneejerk first reaction would be that some OKC-ers are only doing this so they can emasculate Tulsa-- not fair, I know.... but after all, WNBA in Tulsa has been brought up by certain "Average Joes" on this forum in the past to try to "feminize" MLS and men's soccer while arguing for a publicly funded ballpark.....
W. T. F. are you talking about?
Quote from: Townsend on July 23, 2009, 12:10:29 PM
I lived in BA for years. Trust me, there is a roller derby target audience.
I figured Mannford or Sapulpa would be more of their demographic.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 23, 2009, 03:44:09 PM
I figured Mannford or Sapulpa would be more of their demographic.
Trust me...they're there
Quote from: AVERAGE JOE on July 23, 2009, 01:44:28 PM
W. T. F. are you talking about?
The WNBA comments were specifically made in this thread.....http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=4221.0
Funny how all those threads and posts from Nov 2005 until 200? kinda disappeared from sight.... and you became much more diplomatic once Global Development Partners focused on an East End mixed use proposal including a ballpark....
Another Major League Soccer in Tulsa thread...« on: May 08, 2007, 03:01:25 pm »
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=6533.0
--- At least I was able to find my previous comment on WNBA in Tulsa.....
Sales Tax Increase down the Pike« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2008, 11:37:11 pm »Despite Tulsa's small size, Major League Soccer (you knew I'd get to it) [Wink] ... was proactively interested in Tulsa... a Conventions, Sports & Leisure feasability study in 2003 showed that Tulsa could be projected to average over 14,600 fans per game, while the same CS&L study for Kansas City projected an average attendance of 12,000 fans per game... I still believe we had the fanbase, but lacked the local corporate support to get it off the ground...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----These days, I think Tulsa's only shot is getting the WNBA Seattle team out of pity from Bennett.... or a top level Arena football team.... once again, it appears neither of those leagues have actively sought out Tulsa....
Quote from: USRufnex on July 23, 2009, 05:38:12 PM
The WNBA comments were made in this thread.....
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=4221.0
Funny how those all those threads and posts from Nov 2005 until 200? kinda disappeared from sight.... and you became much more diplomatic once Global Development Partners focused on an East End mixed use proposal including a ballpark....
Another Major League Soccer in Tulsa thread...
« on: May 08, 2007, 03:01:25 pm »
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=6533.0
--- At least I was able to find my previous comment on WNBA in Tulsa.....
Sales Tax Increase down the Pike
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2008, 11:37:11 pm »
Despite Tulsa's small size, Major League Soccer (you knew I'd get to it) [Wink] ... was proactively interested in Tulsa... a Conventions, Sports & Leisure feasability study in 2003 showed that Tulsa could be projected to average over 14,600 fans per game, while the same CS&L study for Kansas City projected an average attendance of 12,000 fans per game... I still believe we had the fanbase, but lacked the local corporate support to get it off the ground...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----These days, I think Tulsa's only shot is getting the WNBA Seattle team out of pity from Bennett.... or a top level Arena football team.... once again, it appears neither of those leagues have actively sought out Tulsa....
Okay. For a minute I thought I'd made a comment about the WNBA, which would be weird because I've never spent 2 seconds thinking about the WNBA. I certainly wouldn't have to drag the lady hoopsters into an argument to emasculate soccer players... they do that perfectly well on their own.
Hey, seen this lately? (http://www.oxblue.com/pro/open/oneok/oneokfield) Now, what were you saying about diplomacy? ;D
Quote from: Conan71 on July 23, 2009, 03:44:09 PM
I figured Mannford or Sapulpa would be more of their demographic.
met a couple of the players at the Mercury Lounge last year....
Quote from: AVERAGE JOE on July 23, 2009, 05:51:25 PM
I certainly wouldn't have to drag the lady hoopsters into an argument to emasculate soccer players... they do that perfectly well on their own.
Thank you for proving my point by using the same rhetorical "soccer is for sissies" implication you tried before....
You got so crazy in a thread from 2006, that Kenosha had to talk you down.... nothing new, though....
This from 2007....
"QUIT MISREPRESENTING MY POSITION, you f*cking liar. Liar, liar, liar, filthy, stinking, pondscum sucking LIAR............................YOU ARE A FILTHY LIAR...........YOU PATHETIC LIAR................ so that's a lousy lie even for a pathological LIAR like yourself.......................LIAR LIAR LIAR."
I watched a little WNBA on ESPN2 last night. Those girls are good. Fast, fundamental basketball.
I will be driving to Tulsa to support Tulsa's WNBA experience. I will be a season ticket holder. Looking forward to supporting Oklahoma's second major professional sports franchise.
I looking forward to this as I did when the Roughnecks were in the North American Soccer League.
Let's hope the city gets behind this franchise.
Quote from: TheArtist on July 17, 2009, 04:34:53 PM
?
I would rather watch mens basketball or soccer. Matter of fact I would rather the city and any possible corporate sponsors put their time and effort nurturing MLS in Tulsa. I am willing to bet far more people would be willing to watch that than Womens Basketball.
Agree with you 100%.
We had an owner (Bob Funk--Express Sports) here in Oklahoma City who was willing to get an MLS franchise until the AAA RedHawks went on the market.
Bring on soccer to Tulsa, again I will support it!
Well, although I obviously wish this were in Tulsa.... http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3143/2928905192_372d3e3c82.jpg
MLS All Star game next week, Monster Trucks w/ Grave Digger in August...
http://www.riotintostadium.com/index2.php ...
In the tradition of not making the perfect the enemy of the good, I hope this works out....
Investors announce plan to bring WNBA to Tulsa
By JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS, Associated Press Writer Jul 22, 8:11 pm EDT
http://sports.yahoo.com/wnba/news?slug=ap-tulsa-wnba&prov=ap&type=lgns
Sounds like they're already down the road with their plans. BTW, the WNBA doesn't seem to be in as bad shape as AFL1, which had already cancelled their 2009 season and now may be filing for bankrupcy (doesn't affect the Talons, though)...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/20/afl-heading-for-bankruptcy/
The only way I wouldn't be in support of something like this is if they announced a TV deal with Channel 11 & 13 and played at a second rate arena.... like the Chicago Sky.... ::)
Here's today's PSA from TW's John Klein....
Given the chance, WNBA can succeed
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/article.aspx?subjectid=203&articleid=20090723_203_B1_ISDFIU770934
It's important to note that this doesn't have to be an either/or situation. We could have both WNBA and MLS, and they would still probably both do well, as they aren't really competing fan-bases. :D
Quote from: TURobY on July 24, 2009, 11:55:30 AM
It's important to note that this doesn't have to be an either/or situation. We could have both WNBA and MLS, and they would still probably both do well, as they aren't really competing fan-bases. :D
If Nat Gas continues at these prices, which too many say to expect, unemployment will escalate here from %6.8 to over %10.
What happened to reasonable expectations? What happened to being cautious?
Said it before, say it again. Eventually, all entertainment venues will suffer from the over abundance of expensive entertainment....food, drink and the arts.
But, soccer was the king of all attractions in Tulsa at one time. Nobody seems to think it could be successfully replayed. It was magic in the late 70's and early 80's. It was a gas, gas gas....
WNBA? Avg attendance? My guess....2900. Days occupying the BOK? Ford Center will pick up shows that can't get the open date.....
Quote from: FOTD on July 24, 2009, 01:18:36 PM
If Nat Gas continues at these prices, which too many say to expect, unemployment will escalate here from %6.8 to over %10.
What happened to reasonable expectations? What happened to being cautious?
Said it before, say it again. Eventually, all entertainment venues will suffer from the over abundance of expensive entertainment....food, drink and the arts.
But, soccer was the king of all attractions in Tulsa at one time. Nobody seems to think it could be successfully replayed. It was magic in the late 70's and early 80's. It was a gas, gas gas....
WNBA? Avg attendance? My guess....2900. Days occupying the BOK? Ford Center will pick up shows that can't get the open date.....
We haven't hit hurricane season...yet ;)
NG won't stay this low for long. There's infrastructure inquiries for projects launching in 6-12 months that suggest the big players are expecting $7 to $10 per mcf in the next 12 months. Even still, NG was $5-$6/mcf five years ago and u/e was nowhere close to 10% in Oklahoma. The major players already did their cut-backs last year(ONEOK, Chesapeake). I've been wrong a time or two, just saying the kind of activity I'm seeing indicates something different than your scenario. The first six months of this year sucked but there's a lot of buzz in the industry in the last 30 days. New processing plants that had been on hold are now being fast-tracked to completion and are starting up.
OT....there's too much nat gas....the shallow horizontal stuff is a huge ponzi scheme...Aubrey is way out on a limb.
Thought NG would go up to $5 by year end....now doubtful. Been smack downed ....get po'ed when they sell it for $2.25 an mcf.
You need Goldman Sachs to push the price up....
UNG?
"For fear of failure, he did nothing." Or what's that other saying? "If you wait for all the red lights to turn green before you start your car, you'll never get anywhere."
I'm intrigued that a discussion about women's basketball has turned into a debate about the future of the natural gas industry. (Hey, whatever excuse it takes to be against something...)
Add to that the ability of a women's sports team to "emasculate" an entire city, while simultaneously causing a rash of lesbianism! Wow! Who knew! The Victorians are alive and well in 2009!!!
Personally, I'm excited. We'll get professional women's basketball...AND great opera (thanks to all the new castrati singers). (You know, all those eunuchs created by mere proximity to female athletes of superior ability...)
Good point Ponder....FOTD, being a lesbian, fully supports the Dubya Ennn Beee AAA vers. ;) :)
Quote from: TURobY on July 24, 2009, 11:55:30 AM
It's important to note that this doesn't have to be an either/or situation. We could have both the WNBA and MLS, and they would still probably both do well, as they aren't really competing fan-bases. :D
I would agree with you that the WNBA and MLS don't compete with each other much in huge markets like NYC, Chicago and LA-- other than which league gets more token media coverage... although I think there
would be overlap in smaller markets-- and Tulsa would enter as the second smallest market in the WNBA... IOW, I never went to see the WNBA Chicago Sky play at UIC Pavilion back when I lived there, but I would pay to see a Tulsa WNBA team play a few games at the BOk center. I'd also say there'd be overlap when it comes to corporate sponsorships and such.... when sponsorships dry up in an economy like this, you watch as Arena Football cancels their season and then considers Chapter 11....
FOTD, not even league worst Chicago had average attendance at 2900. Average league attendance for 2008 was just under 8,000 fans per game-- 17 regular season home dates each season; all time high was close to 11k per game and all time low was 7,610 fans per game in 2006.
WNBA enjoys jump at gate; TV ratings flathttp://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/60088
I'm guessing a Tulsa WNBA team would need to draw at least 6k per game to be considered "successful" -- 8k to 10k would be icing on the cake. Can Tulsa do this? Yes. And with the NBA subsidizing it to the tune of millions of dollars per year, annual operating losses will likely not be much, depending on exactly how one defines the word
"much." What does all this have to do with the price of gas? Well, although there is a strong connection between the Thunder and Chesapeake Energy, there doesn't appear to be any overt connection to this WNBA effort so far.... Bill Cameron is an insurance company CEO; And David Box? http://www.growinokc.com/index.php?submenu=DavidBox&src=gendocs&ref=DavidBox&category=OKCSuccessStories
So..... how much is the expansion fee for the WNBA? Ten million dollars?
Heck, I'd rather $10mil be spent on the WNBA over the $10mil that was spent on Bing Thom so he could design three manmade islands originally drawn up on a bevnap.
Looks like this is the official website:
Tulsa: A Major League City
http://www.wnbatulsa.com/
Quote from: FOTD on July 24, 2009, 01:53:29 PM
OT....there's too much nat gas....the shallow horizontal stuff is a huge ponzi scheme...Aubrey is way out on a limb.
Thought NG would go up to $5 by year end....now doubtful. Been smack downed ....get po'ed when they sell it for $2.25 an mcf.
You need Goldman Sachs to push the price up....
UNG?
Yep, ING. CHK has bought some of my Marshall's stash for me, not Gold Man Sacks...dirty, filthy bastards.
$2.25/mcf sounded great 30 years ago, didn't it?
Okay, back OT. Is it just me or is there some magic that the Roughnecks brought with them that we've not seen since? Hell, even when the oilers first came back in '92 (did I get that right, Hoss?) the local media did a great job of creating celebrities and characters out of Dougie Lawrence, Tom Korales, Tony Martino, etc. I don't see that kind of coverage enthusiasm in the local media anymore in terms of creating local sports celebrities. Does anyone else? Have I just become ignorant of the local sports scene? Other than reading about the Driller's pitcher who got called up to the big show this week, I really don't hear the TV or World building any names like Sosa, Palmer, Witt, etc. like they used to.
For some reason I don't think the WNBA is near as well promoted in general as it used to be. Five years ago, I could have named at least a few of their stars, but I don't have a clue who they are anymore. I hope if we get a franchise it's succesful and I hope the media will do a good job of promoting the team and creating local heros out of the players.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 25, 2009, 12:42:24 AM
Yep, ING. CHK has bought some of my Marshall's stash for me, not Gold Man Sacks...dirty, filthy bastards.
$2.25/mcf sounded great 30 years ago, didn't it?
Okay, back OT. Is it just me or is there some magic that the Roughnecks brought with them that we've not seen since? Hell, even when the oilers first came back in '92 (did I get that right, Hoss?) the local media did a great job of creating celebrities and characters out of Dougie Lawrence, Tom Korales, Tony Martino, etc. I don't see that kind of coverage enthusiasm in the local media anymore in terms of creating local sports celebrities. Does anyone else? Have I just become ignorant of the local sports scene? Other than reading about the Driller's pitcher who got called up to the big show this week, I really don't hear the TV or World building any names like Sosa, Palmer, Witt, etc. like they used to.
For some reason I don't think the WNBA is near as well promoted in general as it used to be. Five years ago, I could have named at least a few of their stars, but I don't have a clue who they are anymore. I hope if we get a franchise it's succesful and I hope the media will do a good job of promoting the team and creating local heros out of the players.
Yeah, 92-93. Doug actually didn't arrive until later that year, but I think the real reason they were really propped was the hiatus of hockey for 8 years, plus our head coach was the freaking NHL Ironman Garry Unger.
But Doug was always good at creating his own press, whether it be getting arrested at a club or in a fight. Hockey was so much better back then because we had bona-fied tough guys. The league has gotten so big now (originally it was six, now it's fifteen) that it's really diluted the player pool. That and the fact that two or three more leagues of the same level got started after the new CHL.
Word I'm hearing now is that there are a lot of NHL clubs wanting to move their affiliates closer to home for whatever reason, and Tulsa is on the radar now that OKC is in talks. A division would be made of Austin (getting a club either this season or next), Houston, OKC, Tulsa and San Antonio.
Keep Lund away from it and I'd be alright with it.
Quote from: USRufnex on July 23, 2009, 06:25:56 PM
Thank you for proving my point by using the same rhetorical "soccer is for sissies" implication you tried before....
You got so crazy in a thread from 2006, that Kenosha had to talk you down.... nothing new, though....
This from 2007....
"QUIT MISREPRESENTING MY POSITION, you f*cking liar. Liar, liar, liar, filthy, stinking, pondscum sucking LIAR............................YOU ARE A FILTHY LIAR...........YOU PATHETIC LIAR................ so that's a lousy lie even for a pathological LIAR like yourself.......................LIAR LIAR LIAR."
Still taking the bait so easily. I wouldn't joke about it otherwise.
And that quote from
two years ago (let go easily?) was in response to, guess what, your constant lies. I got tired of posting "the sky is blue" and having you claim I posted that the sky is red. Same old tactics from you -- you sling lies about me and my posts over and over, I finally get sick of it and call you on it, and that makes ME the problem child.
US Rufnex:
Thanks for the addition information about the WNBA and I feel that Tulsa can support both the WNBA and a MLS franchise.
You are very knowledgeable and thorough with your postings and you'll continue to have my support and respect.
Glad to see that you are still around, thanks again!
Quote from: AVERAGE JOE on July 25, 2009, 11:32:08 AM
Still taking the bait so easily. I wouldn't joke about it otherwise.
And that quote from two years ago (let go easily?) was in response to, guess what, your constant lies. I got tired of posting "the sky is blue" and having you claim I posted that the sky is red. Same old tactics from you -- you sling lies about me and my posts over and over, I finally get sick of it and call you on it, and that makes ME the problem child.
Bait. Er, uh... right.
One of the first posts I read in Tulsa Now's hatchet job thread against MLS and former Mayor LaFortune back in Dec 2005 was the reply in which you said "a stadium is not a stadium is not a stadium" and then you compared a proposed MLS stadium's "footprint" to The Rose Bowl... you can say "lie lie lie" all you want, but YOU posted it. You also made arguments using Sportyart's posts with NFL or MLB stadiums including Phoenix's new NFL/MLB stadium as examples of multi-use, then had the nerve to call me a liar for bringing up those posts and your opinions at the time...... you gave examples of "multi-use" stadia that wouldn't be acceptable to MLS or the Drillers... you insisted that CS&L's feasibility study recommended a suburban soccer stadium model when it clearly recommended both a suburban model with youth fields around it OR an option for downtown without the fields-- because nobody could predict which would ultimately work better.... and yes, Virginia, you did resort to a WNBA argument against an MLS team, simultaneously insulting both leagues... it is not my fault that the posts in question were deleted in such a way and with the kind of timing that made me wonder whether Tulsa Now has certain "admin" people who were systematically playing head games...
And all because Global Development Partners was going to put a mixed use development with a soccer stadium in an area (6th and Elgin) where AJ (and others) desperately wanted a ballpark... and so the posts for page after page focused on arguing all conceivable and inconceivable opposition you could come up with...... dealing with the multiple positions (and multiple personalities) against MLS in Tulsa was akin to trying to round up a herd of cats....
Back on topic, when you look at the timeline, this appears to be Clay Bennett's payback to Kathy Taylor for her strong endorsement of the NBA in OKC last year.
Jan 2008 -- Clay Bennett sells the WNBA team he owns to a Seattle group for $10mil.
April 2008 -- Mayor Kathy Taylor publicly and aggressively endorses and supports the NBA in OKC.
Taylor pushes partnership with Oklahoma City
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20080423_1_A9_spanc50745&archive=yes
April 2008 -- NBA approves Sonics move to OKC.
July 2008 -- The move to OKC from Seattle is made official, OKC chooses a team name, and OKC's ownership group buys the Tulsa 66ers.
July 2008 -- A WNBA survey appears in the Tulsa World
Study targets Tulsa's interest in WNBA franchise
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/article.aspx?subjectid=226&articleid=20080722_226_B1_hWOMEN242874&archive=yes
"CSL spokesman Jeff Patterson said the organization was asked to conduct a survey but declined to comment on who asked for it.
When questioned whether the survey was prompted by the recent announcement that Oklahoma City had secured an NBA franchise, Patterson said he had no additional information."
Summer/Fall? 2008 -- The Talons add two members of the NBA Thunder ownership group, Bill Cameron and David Box, as part owners "in the offseason."
July 2009 -- Bill Cameron and David Box are the driving force behind Tulsa's WNBA bid.
Another detailed article from John Klein today:
Maturity of WNBA lowers risk to invest
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/article.aspx?subjectid=203&articleid=20090726_203_B1_TULSAS898675&archive=yes
Good research, ruff.
I was surprised at how strong Mayor Taylor's comments were at the time. It would be hard for me to ever endorse spending any more of my tax dollars in OKC. It is tax funnel for Tulsans already.
I called in to the afternoon local sports radio show the day the announcement happened to argue with the hosts. They were so dissing the WNBA and finding every excuse to make their point (we already have college women's basketball and nobody goes) (the league is failing and desperate), (the women aren't real athletes), (it will just hurt the Talons and the Drillers), etc.
I said that it will be a cool thing to take my daughter to. I want her to know that women can care about sports and want to be athletes.
Quote from: USRufnex on July 25, 2009, 06:02:04 PM
Bait. Er, uh... right.
One of the first posts I read in Tulsa Now's hatchet job thread against MLS.... blahblahblahblah
Totally ignoring your slanted selective memory for the umpteenth time (how many in you life have told you that you only hear what you want to hear?).
The only opposition I ever offered was for building a soccer stadium downtown. Period. I specifically said over and over, bring on MLS. I would still like a team here. Build a stadium on the west bank of the river. Build a stadium in a strategic location on the edge of the city limits near the burbs and surround it by youth fields. The report you reference clearly stated that was the preferred option for our market. I also PERSONALLY BELIEVE it would work best for this market -- building on the huge popularity of youth soccer here perpetually replenishing and growing the fan base. You preferred the downtown + housing plan. Heaven forbid, my OPINION differs from your OPINION, which is something you've never been able to tolerate in your petulant little world.
On top of that, I always felt a baseball stadium was a better fit for downtown than a soccer stadium. Why? MORE DATES. Minor league ball plays 70 home games a year. MLS plays FAR fewer. Also, a 20,000 seat soccer stadium would require more parking than a 6000-10,000 seat baseball stadium. That's it. The extent of my argument.
You never listened to what I actually said and chose to paint me as a slanted party perpetuating a "hachet job" on MLS. Nothing is or was further from the truth, but you have no interest in the truth. You're only interested in furthering your own agenda. Bottom line, I'd like to arrive at the same happy ending as you -- MLS in Tulsa. Your methods for promoting that agenda have alienated me and several others on this board. It's either agree with you lockstep or get painted as an opponent to the cause (even if you resort to half-truths or outright lies).
Any time I joke about soccer it's to piss you off. Period.
That's the sound of a standing ovation you hear, Average Joe.
And let's get this thread back on topic. Apologies to everyone for the tangent.
I've never thought much about the WNBA. No disrespect intended to the league. I knew it was there and generally thought it was a good thing that women had professional hoop options. Of the team sports, it would seem to have the best chance of success as a women's professional league. No reason why the WNBA, LPGA and the various tennis associations couldn't be the flag bearers for women's sports in this country.
Could the WNBA work in Tulsa? Sure it could. For the same reason the LPGA was successful here -- the best competition, a quality product, approachable/personable/likable athletes, and price points that are a good value and fit for this market.
My opinion is that the key will be convincing people to experience the product first-hand. Watching it on TV won't cut it. I've watched women's college hoops on TV and it looks slow and awkward. In person, from the good seats, it's fast and skilled. Still not above the rim, but the athleticism is apparent, even at the college level. The WNBA would certainly be all that and more.
If we land a team, they'd have to do a tremendous amount of outreach to the community. The players would have to make tons of appearances, mingle with fans, etc. The LPGA does this really well with the pro-am they play the day before the tournament starts. Get 3-4 ol' boys out on the course with an LPGA player, and after she outdrives them and outplays them for 18 holes (while being personable and approachable) you have 3-4 more converts who brings their families out year after year and sing the praises of the tournament to their buddies. The WNBA will have to do the same here.
Succeed at that, and the team will be a success here.
This from ESPN...
http://sports.espn.go.com/wnba/columns/story?columnist=voepel_mechelle&id=4351786
Economy tests already frugal WNBA
By Mechelle Voepel
Does it absolutely, positively have to be there overnight? Well, no, come to think of it. The Los Angeles Sparks were used to sending out their season tickets that way, until someone asked why. "A guy in our office whose mother works in the postal service said, 'We should check to see how much it would cost to send them through there,'" Los Angeles Sparks co-owner Kathy Goodman said. "And it was like half the price. Every expense becomes a conversation. It's little stuff like that you hadn't really thought about before."
Before the economy crashed, that is, and made an already frugal sports league even more so. That's the thing about the WNBA -- it has no background of extravagance.
"The WNBA has never been a league filled with luxuries, even in the best of times," said Goodman, who bought the Sparks with co-owner Carla Christofferson in 2006. "We haven't gone from absurd spending patterns to bare bones. But I do think that there are interesting ways at looking at how you're spending money."
The WNBA's financial viability has been a continuous topic since the league formed in 1997 as an offshoot of the NBA. All eight inaugural teams were affiliated with NBA franchises, an ownership model that stayed intact until Connecticut became the first independent WNBA team. Now, six (Atlanta, Chicago, Connecticut, Los Angeles, Seattle and Washington) are financially independent from an NBA franchise.
The Sun, who began play in the 2003 season, were a relocated franchise that had been in Orlando. Connecticut has proved to be one of the league's more successful franchises and will host the WNBA All-Star Game on Saturday, the second time the contest has been held at the Mohegan Sun Arena. The Utah Starzz, one of the league's inaugural teams, relocated to San Antonio for the 2003 season and, like Connecticut, have found much more traction in their second home.
Dan Hughes, coach and general manager in San Antonio and the leader of the West squad in the All-Star Game, worked for two WNBA franchises that eventually became defunct: Charlotte and Cleveland. And he watched last year as what was the best of times for San Antonio ended up being the worst of times for nearby Houston. The Silver Stars made the WNBA finals in 2008, while the Houston Comets -- one of the inaugural franchises and winner of the first four WNBA titles -- disbanded a few months after the season ended.
Houston Rockets owner Leslie Alexander originally owned the Comets, but grew disinterested in running that franchise and sold it to Hilton Koch in October 2006. But Koch ran into financial issues and put the team up for sale in 2008. The WNBA briefly took over, but did not find a suitable buyer. "Having been in the league several years, I experienced playing at Houston where the crowd and the environment epitomized what a good WNBA situation was," Hughes said. "The fact that they weren't going to be there anymore ... I know things happen and time marches on, but that was hard."
All eight inaugural teams were affiliated with NBA franchises. Now, six of 13 are independently owned. Carla Christofferson, left, and Kathy Goodman are Sparks fans and co-owners. Hughes said during his season as head coach in Charlotte, in 1999, he felt the city presented a "vibrant opportunity" for the league. But the Sting went out of business after the 2006 season.
"When I'd go back there with Cleveland and San Antonio, I would notice less crowds and enthusiasm about the product," Hughes said of Charlotte. "I did see the signs, but I don't know why it happened. I wish I did." Meanwhile, Hughes saw what occurred with the Cleveland Rockers as a very different situation. "I was so busy with my team then, I didn't pick up on any signals. I never thought about us not being there," he said. "That wasn't so much about financial difficulties; that was an owner who didn't want to be in the business anymore."
Gordon Gund no longer wanted to own the Rockers, who disbanded in 2003. Two years later, he also sold controlling interest in the Cleveland Cavaliers. "There weren't a lot of fiscal signs that jumped out at you back then, and part of it was I wasn't looking for them," Hughes said of the Rockers' demise. "I didn't see subtle signs. But with the circumstances of an owner wanting get to out of the 'owning' business to a large extent, not just the WNBA, I don't see Cleveland as a direct comparison to anything that might be happening now."
So what is happening now? The WNBA, like most businesses in these difficult economic times, has pluses and minuses. On the plus side, both Phoenix and Los Angeles secured sponsorship deals for their jerseys, which WNBA president Donna Orender called, "consistent with the league's innovative mind-set." LifeLock, an identity-theft prevention company, now appears on the jersey-fronts of the Mercury, while Farmers Insurance does the same for the Sparks. Orender would like to see it happen for all the WNBA teams.
Goodman said the genesis of the Sparks' deal with Farmers was in their involvement in similar charitable projects in the greater Los Angeles community. "We kept running into each other, and we knew we had the same view of what we wanted to do in the city," Goodman said. "As to the fan response, our fans tend to communicate either when they love us or hate us.
"We had a lot of fans who said, 'This is so great -- to have a company that feels so strongly about supporting the league and women.' Then we had a small but vocal group that said, 'How can you sell the name? It's too commercial, this is an outrage, we should never cross that line.' "Given that we play in the 'Staples' Center, I'm not sure that I feel there is some line to cross. Corporate sponsorships are just a part of sports. Some didn't like that the Sparks logo wasn't more prominent on the jersey, but the name Sparks is everywhere in the building and the team has been the Sparks for 13 years. I feel like it was pretty well-established."
Another positive piece of economic news for the WNBA is the interest in bringing a team to Tulsa, Okla. This week, Orender met with a group of potential investors, led by Bill Cameron and David Box, about the possibility of having a team play in that city's BOK Center.
On the minus side, Indiana got a troubling signal from co-owner Mel Simon in March. He told the Indianapolis Star then that his commitment would end to the team if there wasn't significant improvement in attendance and sponsorship. The team has since secured a new sponsor in Kroger, and the Fever are leading the Eastern Conference with a 12-4 record. "We don't talk about it," said Indiana coach Lin Dunn of the Fever's economic status. "The players have got enough on their minds. Their job is to come in, work hard, get better. And if you do all of that, things will take care of themselves. The last thing they need is to feel the pressure: 'If we don't do this or that, we won't be back.' And we certainly don't want them to feel that way. Because that's not true."
Dunn is the coach of the East squad in the All-Star Game, a position she was awarded because the WNBA championship coach last year, Bill Laimbeer, resigned early in this season.
The Houston Comets ruled the WNBA from 1997 to 2000, winning four consecutive titles. But the franchise suspended operations prior to this season.
Laimbeer's exit was seen as yet another "bad sign" about the WNBA's future, although Laimbeer said economics did not impact his departure. The fact is, sky-is-falling rumors started just as soon as the league did more than a decade ago. Goodman now has a standard joke when asked about it.
"I always say that in 2027, the headline is going to read, 'WNBA celebrates 30th anniversary ... will it last?'" Goodman said, laughing. "Who knows? There might be an asteroid that hits the earth. If you had asked the NBA in 1978 about its future, I don't know what they would have said. "When a team folds, or a coach leaves, people will say, 'Oh, that's it for the WNBA!' At certain times, it can be incredibly demoralizing. You want to say, 'Would you please stop reporting my death? I'm not dead.' We're still struggling to get people to stop sidelining us and marginalizing us. People write and talk about how the WNBA must be suffering in these terrible economic times. Well, the NBA, NHL and Major League Baseball suffer, too. Everybody suffers in bad economic times."
Some of the moves made league-wide to counter the economic crisis include the cutting of the roster sizes from 13 to 11, and not printing media guides -- either for the league or the individual teams -- and instead making them available online.
In comparison to more established leagues, travel always has been economical. As Goodman said, extravagance hasn't been part of the WNBA. Teams fly commercial. And it wasn't until the latest collective bargaining agreement, reached in January 2008, that veteran players (those with at least five years' experience) earned the right to not have to share hotel rooms on road trips.
Indiana's Tamika Catchings, president of the WNBA Players Association, said "little things" like that were important issues, but by the same token everyone is aware that the league's growth demands concessions from everyone. For Hughes, being as economical as possible is second nature.
"I come from a background of being a high school coach, a Division III coach," he said. "I've always looked to minimize expenses with scouting and things like that. We don't do things just because the league says we could do it. There's always an eye on, 'How can we best do this in a professional way and still make sense financially?'"
Ultimately, Goodman says her philosophy is to find the silver lining in everything. Including the fact so many college graduates are struggling to find jobs that the Sparks' pool of volunteer interns is both large and exceedingly talented. "And they get a lot of experience in managing a sports franchise, which they'll be able to turn into a paying job somewhere," she said. "I just think you always look for the bright side. "And there's a part of me that really does get annoyed by the constant questions about longevity for the WNBA. Look, it's here now."
Quote from: AVERAGE JOE on July 26, 2009, 05:14:06 PM
Totally ignoring your slanted selective memory for the umpteenth time (how many in you life have told you that you only hear what you want to hear?).
The only opposition I ever offered was for building a soccer stadium downtown. Period. I specifically said over and over, bring on MLS...... blah blah blah....
Any time I joke about soccer it's to piss you off. Period.
"Slanted selective memory?" That could just as easily be
your slanted memory we're talking about here.
And if all the posts/threads in question were actually available to read, you wouldn't be able to make that claim.... (I have posts dating back to 2002 that can be looked up on BigSoccer.com)....... entire threads of responses were deleted with curious timing.... funny dat.
For the first few months until you and others got what they wanted, this forum was used by someone posting as "admin," for the purpose of attacking LaFortune's idea for a soccer stadium. The forum was getting less traffic than it does now, and that thread had by far the most number of views and posts. The thread in question was a sticky in the forum, and it was on the TulsaNow website front and center, which implied those were the official views of TulsaNow.
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=5361.0
There are quotes from the post in question, but curiously, the original thread cannot be found, so I guess it just doesn't exist... ::)
When the administrators of this forum deleted most of the posts in question only a year after they were posted, I take offense.
From the original thread that has been deleted:
TulsaNow welcomes reasoned responses to any and all of the above points – especially from the City's Administration. The civic benefits certainly seem meager. "That the project smacks of cronyism does not inspire us either. We ask the Administration to think deeply before approaching voters to pay for a soccer stadium Downtown."
Quote from: Conan71 on July 26, 2009, 10:58:14 PM
That's the sound of a standing ovation you hear, Average Joe.
...or the sound of one hand clapping.
A WNBA team will not negatively impact the Drillers. It won't "rob" them of fans. And it might actually help ALL Tulsa teams market downtown as a "sports district." (It would add to downtown's cachet, in general.)
Also, remember this. Every two-bit town in America has a minor league baseball team. The Wichita Wingnuts, the Springfield Cardinals, the Northwest Arkansas Naturals, the Arkansas Travellers, the Oklahoma City Redhawks, etc, etc. Folks don't need to travel to see professional baseball. They've got it at home.
But nobody else in the region would have professional women's basketball. The closest WNBA team is in San Antonio, TX.
If Tulsa had a WNBA team, it would attract fans from throughout the region. People would come from Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas, and Texas to see games in Tulsa.
Think of all the girls who play high school basketball in the region. Now imagine their families coming to Tulsa for a game. Or two, or three. That alone would be a market of thousands of fans per game. As long as it's marketed well, and the price is affordable, this thing will succeed.
I realize there are concerns about the image the WNBA brings and the baggage of women being hug-up at the games.
My children see more heterosexual relationship so I'm not concerned about that other stuff.
Tulsa will do just fine in the WNBA.
Quote from: Laramie on August 19, 2009, 12:25:34 PM
I realize there are concerns about the image the WNBA brings and the baggage of women being hug-up at the games.
My children see more heterosexual relationship so I'm not concerned about that other stuff.
Tulsa will do just fine in the WNBA.
This post is seriously in danger of Rabbits and pancakes
Quote from: Laramie on August 19, 2009, 12:25:34 PM
I realize there are concerns about the image the WNBA brings and the baggage of women being hug-up at the games.
My children see more heterosexual relationship so I'm not concerned about that other stuff.
Tulsa will do just fine in the WNBA.
Here you go
(http://deadon.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/rabbit_pancake.jpg)
Quote from: Laramie on August 19, 2009, 12:25:34 PM
I realize there are concerns about the image the WNBA brings and the baggage of women being hug-up at the games.
My children see more heterosexual relationship so I'm not concerned about that other stuff.
Tulsa will do just fine in the WNBA.
After reading this post, I keep wondering, what makes a relationship "more" heterosexual?
I mean, I would have thought it an either/or kind of thing. Is there a percentage of the relationship that Laramie's kids see that is homosexual? How would that work exactly? Daddy lives with mommy but has a boyfriend too? If Daddy doesn't spend too much time this week with his boyfriend then it's safe for the family to go to the WNBA on Saturday night?
Quote from: swake on August 19, 2009, 01:07:13 PM
After reading this post, I keep wondering, what makes a relationship "more" heterosexual?
I mean, I would have thought it an either/or kind of thing. Is there a percentage of the relationship that Laramie's kids see that is homosexual? How would that work exactly? Daddy lives with mommy but has a boyfriend too? If Daddy doesn't spend too much time this week with his boyfriend then it's safe for the family to go to the WNBA on Saturday night?
A swake classic for all times!
Thanks for the laugh!
Quote from: Conan71 on August 19, 2009, 01:37:02 PM
A swake classic for all times!
Thanks for the laugh!
Thanks,
But, Laramie really has me worried. I remembered that I took my son's Cub Scout den to a TU Women's basketball game a year or so ago as part of their advancement requirements. Should I be concerned that these young boys were harmed in some way? Is my son now going to be gay? He already doesn't want to play football, he's happy with just Soccer, is going to a women's basketball game going to push him over the edge? What's next, show tunes and scarves?
What am I going to do?
Yeah, got to be careful about your kids catching the gay, I hear it's contageous.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 19, 2009, 03:55:21 PM
Yeah, got to be careful about your kids catching the gay, I hear it's contageous.
I share it whenever I can. :P
Quote from: swake on August 19, 2009, 03:27:01 PM
Thanks,
But, Laramie really has me worried. I remembered that I took my son's Cub Scout den to a TU Women's basketball game a year or so ago as part of their advancement requirements. Should I be concerned that these young boys were harmed in some way? Is my son now going to be gay? He already doesn't want to play football, he's happy with just Soccer, is going to a women's basketball game going to push him over the edge? What's next, show tunes and scarves?
What am I going to do?
I've been using a repellent, and would make a recommendation... but unfortunately the manufacturer changed its formula and added a scent of lavender.
I used to be able to wear a doubleknit polyester shirt to keep the gays away, but they seem to build up a tolerance over time. Now, when I wear polyester, it does nothing but attract them. They just keep using this word, "kich" (sp?), and then invite me over "for a beer."
I wish the government would do something, but I think if gays are outlawed, only outlaws will have gays.
If someone can suggest another gay repellent for me to use, please advise.
I like Bert's Bees.
Thanks in advance.
RUFF.
Quote from: USRufnex on August 21, 2009, 02:19:46 PM
I hear ya' Swake....
I've been using a repellent, and would make a recommendation... but unfortunately the manufacturer changed its formula and added a scent of lavender.
I used to be able to wear a doubleknit polyester shirt to keep the gays away, but they seem to build up a tolerance over time. Now, when I wear polyester, it does nothing but attract them. They just keep using this word, "kich" (sp?), and then invite me over "for a beer."
I know better.
I wish the government would do something, but I think if gays are outlawed, only outlaws will have gays.
If someone can suggest another gay repellent for me to use, please advise.
I like Bert's Bees.
Thanks in advance.
RUFF.
Broadway show tunes and opera seem to attract them too, so karaoke might be out.
The WNBA in Tulsa is getting a lot of press coverage here in Oklahoma City.
A successful Tulsa franchise just might cause the Oklahoma City Thunder ownership to reconsider a WNBA franchise; they left the Seattle Storm in the Emerald City.
A WNBA franchise could play in the Cox Convention Center across from the Ford Center, the current seating capacity is 14,005 for basketball.
There is a lot of interest in the WNBA here in Oklahoma City; also there are a number of current NBA cities waiting to join.
Really, Laramie? Why would the WNBA ever consider having teams in both Tulsa and OKC? Is there any reason to believe that Clay Bennett/Aubrey McClendon are having seller's remorse after they gave up OKC's WNBA rights to a group in Seattle for a cool $10mil?
And who are these other cities vying with Tulsa for an expansion slot?
Can anybody name some other cities that have thrown their hat into the ring?
Cuz Donna Orender won't name any (or can't name any-- not sure which).
Tulsa gets closer to gaining WNBA teamInvestors report that the group has reached 75 percent of its goal.http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?subjectid=235&articleid=20090827_226_B1_Blaeos919246
It looks to me as if Tulsa is the WNBA's closest (only?) viable option for 2010.
Otherwise, why would Orender give Tulsa a few more weeks to pony up more money? .... is it for the expansion fee?.... or to pre-sell more corporate luxury suites to make up for an expected shortfall in fan support?.... or as a face saving measure to cover the WNBA's inability to produce an expansion club for 2010?...
Average WNBA attendance is just under 8,000, and wasn't it only a month ago that Mr. Cameron talked about crowds of "5, 6, 7 or 8,000" fans per game?
Now this from Mr. Box....
"If we can sell 5,000-6,000 tickets per game, we can be successful"....
So, if we're doing this for the purposes stated by the ownership group and the mayor of Tulsa, then how exactly, does averaging only 5,000 - 6,000 fans per game turn Tulsa into a "Major League City?"(http://s3.amazonaws.com/newsok-photos/618458/medium.jpg)
Group eyeing WNBA team for Tulsa in 2010 gets more timeAug. 26, 2009
http://www.cbssports.com/wnba/story/12116354
Quote"We may be able to push it into September a few weeks before we're faced with a go or no-go deadline," Oklahoma City businessman Bill Cameron said Wednesday at the Tulsa Press Club.
Cameron said Orender flew to Tulsa on Tuesday to meet with potential investors and area business leaders.
Cameron did not specify details on how much capital he's raised from sponsors, only that his group is "maybe two-thirds to 75 percent there."
"We've made some very good progress," he said. "It's just, there's a whole lot of people we've got to [reach]."
Cameron said it was up to the community to "pull together" and develop the corporate support "to show the WNBA that we're ready to have a team here in Tulsa."
In July, investors announced a plan to bring a WNBA franchise to Tulsa. It is unknown whether Tulsa would get an expansion team or whether an existing team would relocate to the city.
Tulsa, with about 385,000 people, would be the second-smallest city with a WNBA franchise -- after Uncasville, Conn. Orender said in July that other cities were being considered by the league, but did not reveal which ones were in the running.
Yes, I'm a soccer guy. And my perspective is colored by the hard work done by the city, former mayor LaFortune, and a large number of TULSANS earlier this decade to host an MLS exhibition game and put together a successful season ticket drive. I also know that it was the president of Rainbo bread and a few Tulsa lawyers who put together a couple of NASL exhibition games back in the 70s-- the 1977 exhibition game at Skelly attracted 11,000 fans and the Roughnecks were born....
But
this just wreaks of a top-down, OKC-driven effort that can be traced back to Kathy Taylor's support of Bennett and the Thunder in 2008.
I mean, where's the cultivation of Tulsa grassroots support for this? Where have these OKC people been for the past year after they bought their way into co-ownership of the Talons?
Quote from: swake on August 19, 2009, 03:27:01 PM
Thanks,
But, Laramie really has me worried. I remembered that I took my son's Cub Scout den to a TU Women's basketball game a year or so ago as part of their advancement requirements. Should I be concerned that these young boys were harmed in some way? Is my son now going to be gay? He already doesn't want to play football, he's happy with just Soccer, is going to a women's basketball game going to push him over the edge? What's next, show tunes and scarves?
What am I going to do?
Swake:
What am I going to do?
Nothing (Nada),
If your son turns out to be gay; just remember that he is your son and you will need to always be there for him. The very concerns you have about his not playing football vs. soccer has nothing to do with his sexual orientation or preference--whichever he chooses.
My son is gay and it doesn't bother me if it doesn't bother him. He played football, basketball, soccer and hockey. He will always be my son and I will always be there for him and to support him whenever he needs me.
Just wish the best for him in life and let him live it as best that he is capable of doing. My concerns for my son is that he is happy!
Quote from: Laramie on August 31, 2009, 06:33:06 PM
Swake:
What am I going to do?
Nothing (Nada),
If your son turns out to be gay; just remember that he is your son and you will need to always be there for him. The very concerns you have about his not playing football vs. soccer has nothing to do with his sexual orientation or preference--whichever he chooses.
My son is gay and it doesn't bother me if it doesn't bother him. He played football, basketball, soccer and hockey. He will always be my son and I will always be there for him and to support him whenever he needs me.
Just wish the best for him in life and let him live it as best that he is capable of doing. My concerns for my son is that he is happy!
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t137/Monkey_heads/sarcasm_detector.jpg)
Swake:
I'm concerned that I gave you the impression that I was being sarcastic. I could feel that you were going through the same stages I went through when I discovered that my son was gay.
I wish you the best outcome with your personal family situation--Good Luck!
Quote from: Laramie on September 05, 2009, 10:22:02 AM
Swake:
I'm concerned that I gave you the impression that I was being sarcastic. I could feel that you were going through the same stages I went through when I discovered that my son was gay.
I wish you the best outcome with your personal family situation--Good Luck!
No no no.... Swake was saying he was being sarcastic, not you lol.
Quote from: TheArtist on September 05, 2009, 10:54:43 AM
No no no.... Swake was saying he was being sarcastic, not you lol.
Yes, I was being sarcastic. No, I don't think my son is gay, and I think by eight I would know. I firmly believe that you are born wired one way or the other. I feel for your situation, not that there is something wrong with being gay, but that society does not yet treat gay people as full citizens. Many, if not most poeople still see being gay as somehow "evil".
I don't wish a life suffering discrimination for how you were born on anyone. You do seem to think that the gay is "catching", for the good of your son you need to get over that and accept him as he was born. You should not in any way "blame" yourself or your son for being gay. It's ok, there's nothing that you nor he did wrong. It's just a somewhat unusual genetic disposition, he will have to learn to accept and embrace being gay. It's your job to help him.
Quote from: TheArtist on September 05, 2009, 10:54:43 AM
No no no.... Swake was saying he was being sarcastic, not you lol.
Thanks, Artist for clearing that up!
I found this amusing: the WNBA gets bumped by Elmo.
QuoteAccording to the standings that I'm now looking at for the first time –it turns out the WNBA has a website and uniforms and everything — the Dream is 15-13. With six games left, they apparently have a chance to make the playoffs.
But there's a problem. It seems the big boys are coming to town. Yes, I'm talking about, "Sesame Street Live!" Elmo has booked Philips Arena. You don't want to get Elmo mad. And I think we know who wears the pants here.
If the Dream make the playoffs, they may not be able to play at Philips because the Muppets have booked the arena for eight shows Sept. 17-20. The team might have to move to Gwinnett, or Georgia Tech, or Georgia, or even in Knoxville, which I happen to believe is the best option, unless an auditorium is Rhode Island also is being considered.
Just so you know, I'm not a really big rules guy. But there's one rule I've always followed: Don't pay attention to any league whose home playoff games are bumped by "Sesame Street Live."
Elmo, the floor is yours.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2009/08/28/sunny-day-elmo-stares-down-dream/
The NBA had a similar situation last spring, when pro wrestling had a date booked that the Denver Nuggets wanted for a playoff game. Of course, wrestling got bumped.
Sooooo... ??
I think Nolan Richardson is the last gasp for the WNBA in Tulsa.
Keep in mind, Cameron Box Sports will also be bankrolling the Talons in Arena Football 1.
And I think it's going to have to be a few of Nolan's people who will put the WNBA effort over the top.
Otherwise why would he be doing this?...
Tulsa may be rollin' with Nolan again Published: 10/4/2009 2:27 AM
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20091004_11_A5_Former797992&archive=yes
"Richardson was introduced last week as coach and general manager of a WNBA franchise in Tulsa, should the city secure a team that would play its home games at the BOK Center."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?subjectid=413&articleid=20091019_413_0_ADetro699850
AP source: Detroit Shock are moving to Tulsa
By LARRY LAGE AP Sports Writer
Published: 10/19/2009
A Detroit Shock official says the WNBA team is moving to Tulsa, Okla.
The official spoke on the condition of anonymity to The Associated Press on Monday because he was not authorized to make the announcement.
Detroit made its debut in the league in 1998 and won titles in 2008, 2006 and 2003. The Shock lost last month to the Indiana Fever in the Eastern Conference finals after rallying to earn a playoff spot.
Wow. The Shock are one of the premier franchises in the WNBA. They averaged nearly 10,000 fans early on this year but that number has tumbled along with the economy. For the regular season they averaged ~8,000 fans in 2008. They are known for a highly successful marketing department and drawing passionate LOUD fans. 4th in overall attendance this year in the WNBA. (worth noting that there are constant accusations that the numbers are padded, rumor has it about 5000 butts in seats was the real number)
It was announced unofficially a few days ago in Detroit:
QuoteNever before has a team had so much success, yet so few noticed.
That was the never-ending story of the Detroit Shock.
No matter how many championships they won or championship runs they made, fans here just weren't going to buy tickets to see women play basketball on the professional level.
It may sound mean. It isn't. It's just the reality.
That's why the Shock, three championships and all, appear to be heading to Tulsa.
There could be an announcement any minute. That's how white-hot the buzz is about the sale of this franchise is right now. While some will say good luck, the majority will probably say good riddance.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/parkersconfidential/21318158/detail.html
(best comment to the article: can the take the lions with them?)
http://www.motownsports.com/forums/detroit-shock/77187-detroit-shock-moving-tulsa.html
- - - - - -
I for one, welcome the new team! Surely we'll get some of that quality job money in Tulsa, or are women's sports not worthy of state subsidies? ;D
In all seriousness, it's good news. I see no bad news in the announcement. I'll be at the first game if I can and probably one or two a year after that.
All staff of the Shock in Detroit (including coaches) will be losing their jobs. They were told 10/15/2009. It is being called "purely a business decision."
Quote from: cannon_fodder on October 19, 2009, 10:38:14 AM
All staff of the Shock in Detroit (including coaches) will be losing their jobs. They were told 10/15/2009. It is being called "purely a business decision."
Hmmm, seems like if they had a proven formula and some great marketing staff this might be a bad mistake to smile can every staff member in a wholesale fashion.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 19, 2009, 10:45:45 AM
Hmmm, seems like if they had a proven formula and some great marketing staff this might be a bad mistake to smile can every staff member in a wholesale fashion.
They were likely employees of "detroit shocks, llc" so technically by selling the team and hsutting down the llc, everyone gets canned.
I didn't even know the WNBA was still in existence.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 19, 2009, 12:43:47 PM
I didn't even know the WNBA was still in existence.
Strong funadmentals make up for lack of dunking.
I have been out and read the posts on KOTV, and TW, and it just still amazes me that a city that has been wanting a national team in a successful leauge since the Roughnecks left town (I don't include the Outlaws, there really hasn't been a sucessful minor leauge for the NFL unless you count the CFL) so many people turn negative and don't even want to give it a cheance. Granted it's games are on ESPN II, but it's weekly national exposure during the season.
Quote from: dbacks fan on October 19, 2009, 02:30:14 PM
I have been out and read the posts on KOTV, and TW, and it just still amazes me that a city that has been wanting a national team in a successful leauge since the Roughnecks left town (I don't include the Outlaws, there really hasn't been a sucessful minor leauge for the NFL unless you count the CFL) so many people turn negative and don't even want to give it a cheance. Granted it's games are on ESPN II, but it's weekly national exposure during the season.
I didn't even know that ESPN II still existed.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 19, 2009, 02:43:33 PM
I didn't even know that ESPN II still existed.
Do you ever watch "The Ocho"?
Quote from: Gaspar on October 19, 2009, 02:43:33 PM
I didn't even know that ESPN II still existed.
Other than ESPN and ESPN2, what about:
ESPN U
ESPN Deportes
ESPN America
ESPN Classic
ESPNews
ESPN Plus
ESPN (UK) [newest venture, starting in 2009]
ESPN360
ESPNHD (some different programming, less and less)
ESPN2HD (some different programming)
ABC Sports (now produced by ESPN)
ESPN International
ESPN Brasil
ESPN Canadian Classics (Canada eh)
ESPN Plus
ESPN PPV
ESPN Australia
ESPN Star Sports
ESPN Latin America
- - -
ESPN also has a slew of online interests, radio networks, side ventures, and a stake in the Arena Football League. They broadcast in 150 countries in 150 languages. Whoever saw a group of guys standing around talking sports and went "I can turn this into serious cash" was a frikken genius. I wish I was that guy.
(and yes, I realize the ESPN II comment was tongue in cheek)
How on earth does the Detroit Shock believe they will make more money by moving to Tulsa? The team had pretty good turnout in Detroit and won three titles. They actually think they're going to get better marketing and more attendance here?
NO WAY!
Quote from: Wilbur on October 19, 2009, 04:06:05 PM
How on earth does the Detroit Shock believe they will make more money by moving to Tulsa? The team had pretty good turnout in Detroit and won three titles. They actually think they're going to get better marketing and more attendance here?
NO WAY!
According to the article, the claim was competition from all of the other sports in Detroit, both college and pro. I compared the schedule for the Shock to the Tigers from June through Sept. which is the WNBA season. The Shock played 16 games at home (not including preseason) and of the games the Tigers were in Detroit five times. So they had competition 31% of their season.
I also compared the Mercury and the Diamondbacks and came up with the same result. So if they are "getting something" it's probably a lower lease price and the connection to the Thunder, may be a better deal.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 19, 2009, 12:43:47 PM
I didn't even know the WNBA was still in existence.
Not for long. Bankruptcy approaches for the league. What's this charade all about?
Quote from: FOTD on October 19, 2009, 05:06:45 PM
Not for long. Bankruptcy approaches for the league. What's this charade all about?
They may not go bankrupt:
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/06/02/sterns-latest-wnba-hail-mary-be-afraid/ (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/06/02/sterns-latest-wnba-hail-mary-be-afraid/)
Look for him to get naming rights to the team from here:
http://www.loves.com/ (http://www.loves.com/)
http://www.okcu.edu/loves/staff_detail.aspx?id=bcameron@okcu.edu (http://www.okcu.edu/loves/staff_detail.aspx?id=bcameron@okcu.edu)
Naming rights to the team are cheaper
Lifelock did it for the Mercury and they are a Phoenix based company.
Follow the money.
Quote from: dbacks fan on October 19, 2009, 05:32:53 PM
They may not go bankrupt:
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/06/02/sterns-latest-wnba-hail-mary-be-afraid/ (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/06/02/sterns-latest-wnba-hail-mary-be-afraid/)
Look for him to get naming rights to the team from here:
http://www.loves.com/ (http://www.loves.com/)
http://www.okcu.edu/loves/staff_detail.aspx?id=bcameron@okcu.edu (http://www.okcu.edu/loves/staff_detail.aspx?id=bcameron@okcu.edu)
Naming rights to the team are cheaper
Lifelock did it for the Mercury and they are a Phoenix based company.
Follow the money.
Just curious but what if the only date open for the Stones to play BOK falls on a 6 foot woman date?
Quote from: FOTD on October 19, 2009, 05:47:12 PM
Just curious but what if the only date open for the Stones to play BOK falls on a 6 foot woman date?
I'm sure it's been planned for considering that the '10 schedules are not out yet. ::)
Quote from: FOTD on October 19, 2009, 05:47:12 PM
Just curious but what if the only date open for the Stones to play BOK falls on a 6 foot woman date?
I believe your argument would be:
"Then the out of town act can't come and take money away from local events."
;)
They will take up like 14 dates. That's not a real scheduling hurdle for the BOk Center and since things are planned out WAY in advance it will be nearly a non-issue. If some SUPER event wanted to bump them it would probably just be made into a day game or something . . .
I really hope they change the name from Shock to something plural, something tangible. But given the names of the other WNBA teams, that doesn't seem likely. We'll probably get Lightning or something even more ridiculous.
Possible names:
Lightning (to match the OKC Thunder)
Twisters
Strike (again with the lightning/thunder theme)
Jolt (see above)
Tornadoes
Fast Breakers (LOL)
How about:
Roughnecks or Nappy-headed...(eh, nevermind)
I'd taken even odds on a meal at Joe Momma's that it ends up being the Tulsa Tornado with some leeway on the single/plural. Tornado is better than the "new age" names like Shock, Yard Dogz, etc. I'd be OK with anything so long as it is locally relevant and not some God awful cliche (current WNBA team names: comets, shock, spark, storm, fever, dream . . . most tend to be plays off of the NBA franchise. Phoenix Suns/Mercury, Sacramento Kings/Monarchs, Detroit Pistons/Shock (spark plus?), Washington Wizards/Mystics).
Tornado could go along with Thunder just fine.
Si my money is on Tornado.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on October 20, 2009, 12:52:47 PM
I'd taken even odds on a meal at Joe Momma's that it ends up being the Tulsa Tornado with some leeway on the single/plural. Tornado is better than the "new age" names like Shock, Yard Dogz, etc. I'd be OK with anything so long as it is locally relevant and not some God awful cliche (current WNBA team names: comets, shock, spark, storm, fever, dream . . . most tend to be plays off of the NBA franchise. Phoenix Suns/Mercury, Sacramento Kings/Monarchs, Detroit Pistons/Shock (spark plus?), Washington Wizards/Mystics).
Tornado could go along with Thunder just fine.
Si my money is on Tornado.
I quick check of available domain names shows all of the obvious choices still available.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on October 20, 2009, 12:52:47 PM
I'd taken even odds on a meal at Joe Momma's that it ends up being the Tulsa Tornado with some leeway on the single/plural. Tornado is better than the "new age" names like Shock, Yard Dogz, etc. I'd be OK with anything so long as it is locally relevant and not some God awful cliche (current WNBA team names: comets, shock, spark, storm, fever, dream . . . most tend to be plays off of the NBA franchise. Phoenix Suns/Mercury, Sacramento Kings/Monarchs, Detroit Pistons/Shock (spark plus?), Washington Wizards/Mystics).
Tornado could go along with Thunder just fine.
Si my money is on Tornado.
Lightning possibly...whether or not Tampa Bay's NHL franchise would balk is fodder for a legal question. Can a name like that be copyrighted? My guess is probably so.
My wife brought up:
Does Tulsa have a WNBA team or does Oklahoma have a WNBA team?
The Oklahoma Tornado, the Oklahoma Cloud, the Oklahoma whatever . . .
Doesn't really matter to me. If it makes them more successful to draw on the entire state, go for it.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on October 20, 2009, 03:11:18 PM
My wife brought up:
Does Tulsa have a WNBA team or does Oklahoma have a WNBA team?
The Oklahoma Tornado, the Oklahoma Cloud, the Oklahoma whatever . . .
Doesn't really matter to me. If it makes them more successful to draw on the entire state, go for it.
That would be rich. Here we thought there might be a chance that the OKC Thunder might wind up being the "state's" team as the Oklahoma Thunder. Instead of this being the Tulsa Women With Mullets or whatever it will wind up being an "Oklahoma" team instead. 8)
Tulsa Tops (did you see this coming?)
Tulsa Wingnuts
Tulsa Elite
Tulsa Refiners
Tulsa Testicle (not for a woman's team)
Tulsa Toll
Tulsa Take Me Backs (Dback)
Tulsa Groove Crushers
Tulsa Barbarians
Tulsa Rig
Tulsa Tumbleweed
:)
You forgot the She-Devils
Quote from: Conan71 on October 20, 2009, 04:01:09 PM
You forgot the She-Devils
VERY GOOD!!!!
Now. Will the name live longer than the WNBA?
But really, this devil might show up if they were Nolan's She Devils!
This is cool,I will visit Tulsa to see a couple of games,maybe hit a casino as well.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 20, 2009, 04:01:09 PM
You forgot the She-Devils
I think the Tulsa She-Bears has a nice ring.
I would actually go to a game if they were called the "She-Bears".
Quote from: PepePeru on October 21, 2009, 09:47:40 AM
I think the Tulsa She-Bears has a nice ring.
I would actually go to a game if they were called the "She-Bears".
That could be interesting, I say to capture the spirit of Oklahoma we go with the: Tulsa Shake & Bake.
Quote from: brianh on October 21, 2009, 10:12:12 AM
That could be interesting, I say to capture the spirit of Oklahoma we go with the: Tulsa Shake & Bake.
Yeah, and they could have Coke or Pepsi 2 liter bottle night too.
WNBA Shock to Tulsa, Great!
Now let's work on MLS for Tulsa as well! :)
I'm excited.
People will come to Tulsa from all over Oklahoma, as well as the surrounding states to see the WNBA in action.
The Drillers are fun b/c you get to see players before they become famous. This will be cool b/c you'll get to see the best women's hoops players in the nation...perhaps the world...right here in Tulsa. Folks will come to see the local team...AND they'll come to see their favorite players on the opposing teams.
A chance to see Candace Parker play in Tulsa? Yup. I'll be there.
Years ago, I got to watch the US Olympic women's team practice. They practiced against men from Division I college teams...just so someone could give them some competition. (And that was in the early 90's...the level of play has skyrocketed since then.)
One of the funniest things I've ever seen was a group of women playing pickup ball against a bunch of cocky young men at the gym. The guys didn't want to play against "a bunch of girls." After they got spanked, the guys wanted a second chance to redeem themselves...
I had forgotten about this until I was reading through this thread. So many assumptions about women and basketball. Stereotypical, outdated, mostly misinformed...and coming from a bunch of folks who know little or nothing about the game. Times have changed, folks. This isn't 1980 anymore.
Nolan Richardson is already talking about "40 Minutes of Hell, Part II." This is going to be fun.
I'm glad they got Nolan to lead the team. I think he really should be able to create on-court excitement. He's probably the only former Tulsa-area coach that went on to better bigger things (TU or ORU) who has always kept a good connection here.
I probably will make it out to a game or two.
Quote from: brianh on October 21, 2009, 10:12:12 AM
That could be interesting, I say to capture the spirit of Oklahoma we go with the: Tulsa Shake & Bake.
What was I thinking...It's the WNBA
It can't just be the "She-Bears"
It has to be the
She-Bearz
or
She-Bearzz
or
She-Bearzzz
Quote from: PonderInc on October 21, 2009, 03:13:21 PM
One of the funniest things I've ever seen was a group of women playing pickup ball against a bunch of cocky young men at the gym. The guys didn't want to play against "a bunch of girls." After they got spanked, the guys wanted a second chance to redeem themselves...
I watched the OSU girls team play a pickup team of guys and lose. I was amazed that somebody with set plays was losing to 5 people that probably didn't know each others names.
I got a new name for the team
Needs More Parking Lots
So they would be the Tulsa Needs More Parking Lots!!
Quote from: PepePeru on October 21, 2009, 04:21:07 PM
What was I thinking...It's the WNBA
It can't just be the "She-Bears"
It has to be the
She-Bearz
or
She-Bearzz
or
She-Bearzzz
"I am Adora, He-Man's twin sister and defender of the Crystal Castle. This is Spirit, my beloved steed. Fabulous secrets were revealed to me the day I held aloft my sword and said 'For the honor of Greyskull...I AM SHE-BEARZ!' Only a few others share this secret. Among them are Light Hope, Madame Razz, and Kowl. Together me and my friends of the Great Rebellion try to defend Etheria from the evil forces of Hordak."
Quote from: Townsend on October 21, 2009, 04:28:58 PM
"I am Adora, He-Man's twin sister and defender of the Crystal Castle. This is Spirit, my beloved steed. Fabulous secrets were revealed to me the day I held aloft my sword and said 'For the honor of Greyskull...I AM SHE-BEARZ!' Only a few others share this secret. Among them are Light Hope, Madame Razz, and Kowl. Together me and my friends of the Great Rebellion try to defend Etheria from the evil forces of Hordak."
Actually I'm thinking that before each home game, a man dressed as Elijah needs to come to mid-court. He curses the opponents and thus summons the She-Bearz from their lair.
This pre-game home ritual should please the bible thumpers, greatly.