From a KOTV interview (http://www.newson6.com/Global/category.asp?C=121535&clipId=4081608&topVideoCatNo=112047&autoStart=true) this morning.
Since Bartlett has already lost once to Adelson a few years ago, for a different office. Does a win against Medlock make Adelson an easy winner against Bartlett ? Would the better chance of an Adelson lose be a Medlock win against Bartlett?
With so many GOP candidates I'm thinking the Republican winner will have 40% whereas Adelson will probably get 85% in the Democrat primary. It's going to be an uphill battle for any GOP candidate considering how far the primary will be split and the fact the current Democrat mayor has such a high approval rating.
Posted on twhrld: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=262&articleid=20090826_11_A11_Tulsam591258
"The Republicans can't possibly win unless I win," Tay, a Democrat, said about capturing the nomination in the primary race.
Quote from: Grizzle4D8 on August 29, 2009, 03:13:40 PM
Posted on twhrld: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=262&articleid=20090826_11_A11_Tulsam591258
"The Republicans can't possibly win unless I win," Tay, a Democrat, said about capturing the nomination in the primary race.
Quoting yourself,
Nice.
I think Dewey Bartlett would be a way more formidable opponent than Chris Medlock in a race against Tom Adelson. Many traditional republicans would break rank than vote for Medlock.
The real challenge to Adelson would be Anna Falling. She is the real outsider and if she could somehow win the republican nomination, it would mean the evangelical voter base is energized for this election.
I went to the Tulsa Area Republican Assembly nominating convention (yes, it's as fun as it sounds) and TARA is made up of republicans of the more conservative side. Candidates such as Bartlett and Lakin are not popular there. Each of the Mayoral candidates (except Bartlett who wasn't there of course) were asked if they would endorse Bartlett if he wins the republican nod and while some were expectedly vague, they all leaned towards endorsing no-one if Bartlett wins.
Bartlett couldn't beat Adelson in 2004, a year in which George W. Bush won all 77 counties and won Senate District 33 by 8 percentage points. It's hard to believe he'd do any better as the top of the ticket, with no coattails whatsoever.
I know exactly one person who is voting for Anna Falling who is not a member of her immediate family. At the Republican candidate events I've been to, I've seen lots of people wearing Medlock stickers and a few Streetman supporters. Even Nathaniel Booth seems to have a bigger following than Falling. If Anna had a following among conservative Christian voters, she would have won the Tulsa Area Republican Assembly endorsement, or at least would have drawn enough support to prevent Medlock from getting it. You have to get the votes of two-thirds of the membership to get the Republican Assembly endorsement, a high threshold in a crowded field.
It seems like there's a method to Falling's madness, though. She keeps coming up with cockeyed ideas that get her name on the media and get people talking about her (for good or ill). Plus the fact she was a former city councilor will give her no small amount of name recognition, which is also important.
I'm not saying she's going to win. But I'd say she'd definitely peel a substantial number of GOP votes away from other candidates who need them.
And what I'm saying is that whatever media attention she's getting doesn't seem to be winning her any votes. I know a lot of Republicans -- and I'd guess that most of them are conservative evangelical Christians -- but I only know one that's supporting Falling. That one person is Dan Hicks, the guy that designed the creation display Falling wants to put at the zoo.
I would like to see a "no mayor" option on the ticket, don't they just duplicate the work of the council? Are we legally obligated to have one? Failing that, which mayor will work best to thwart and hamper the ABLE commission?
Quote from: brianh on August 30, 2009, 08:47:09 AM
I would like to see a "no mayor" option on the ticket, don't they just duplicate the work of the council? Are we legally obligated to have one? Failing that, which mayor will work best to thwart and hamper the ABLE commission?
No, the mayor does not duplicate the work of the council. A lot of the problems with the council recently is that they seem to think they do have the same powers and duties as the mayor. It's the whole separation of powers thingy. She is the chief executive of the city, they are a part time legislative branch that is only supposed create ordinances, set budgets and advise and consent on mayor appointees.
As for the Mayor "thwarting" the ABLE commission, state law trumps city ordinance, the city can't legally do anything to thwart ABLE.
What I think we need to see is a stronger auditing department and the various department heads being at will employees of the mayor. Some people need to be fired for what's happened over multiple mayors in Public Works, Police and Fire. Tulsa seems to have a bureaucracy that is out of control and along with Police and Fire unions with too much power.
Quote from: MichaelBates on August 30, 2009, 08:33:34 AM
And what I'm saying is that whatever media attention she's getting doesn't seem to be winning her any votes. I know a lot of Republicans -- and I'd guess that most of them are conservative evangelical Christians -- but I only know one that's supporting Falling. That one person is Dan Hicks, the guy that designed the creation display Falling wants to put at the zoo.
I guess we'll find out how big the Hicks-ish vote is.
Which makes Medlock's platform of installing a City Manager meaningful. If change is what we want, that'd be a big step in the right direction.
Bartlett would be more of the same, only not as good.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 29, 2009, 09:05:38 PM
TARA is made up of republicans of the more conservative side.
Not exactly the kind of place you'd expect to see me, eh?
Quote from: Wrinkle on August 30, 2009, 12:32:12 PM
Which makes Medlock's platform of installing a City Manager meaningful. If change is what we want, that'd be a big step in the right direction.
Bartlett would be more of the same, only not as good.
You can install a city manager now, I'm talking about removing civil service protection from the top levels of city government.
Quote from: swake on August 30, 2009, 09:26:10 AM
What I think we need to see is a stronger auditing department and the various department heads being at will employees of the mayor. Some people need to be fired for what's happened over multiple mayors in Public Works, Police and Fire. Tulsa seems to have a bureaucracy that is out of control and along with Police and Fire unions with too much power.
I agree. A while back, I proposed a charter amendment to remove department heads from civil service (http://"http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A17929") to be appointed by the Mayor with the advice and consent of the City Council. Our elected officials can't be held accountable for the performance of the city departments if they have no real power over who runs them. Such a charter change was proposed during the LaFortune administration, but it didn't have enough council support to make it to the ballot.
QuoteDepartment heads like the police chief aren't merely following orders. They set policy for their departments. They set the tone. They exercise their personal discretion, judgment, and leadership skills. Insulated by civil service protection, they can subtly undermine the policies of the elected officials without suffering any consequences. There needs to be political oversight and accountability at that level of responsibility and power.
Quote from: swake on August 30, 2009, 05:52:32 PM
You can install a city manager now, I'm talking about removing civil service protection from the top levels of city government.
We agree on this.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=262&articleid=20090831_11_0_hrimgs250564
Looky here, Mudschlock got another audience at the press club. Love the comments after the article.
One good thing about electing Medlock would be the almost certain retirement of our Publik Works Director.
Besides that, in spite of the vitriol being spewed, Medlock is the only one of the candidates who actually understands how government is supposed to work. That probably seems obtuse to many Tulsans since they've never seen it. And, is certainly causing some anxiety amongst those who benefit from it. Just read the World's comments (and laugh).
Quote from: Wrinkle on August 31, 2009, 10:16:10 PM
One good thing about electing Medlock would be the almost certain retirement of our Publik Works Director.
Besides that, in spite of the vitriol being spewed, Medlock is the only one of the candidates who actually understands how government is supposed to work. That probably seems obtuse to many Tulsans since they've never seen it. And, is certainly causing some anxiety amongst those who benefit from it. Just read the World's comments (and laugh).
At least on Saturday, Medlock seemed to be supporting Charles Hardt..
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 31, 2009, 10:20:37 PM
At least on Saturday, Medlock seemed to be supporting Charles Hardt..
....think I said, 'retirement'.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 31, 2009, 10:20:37 PM
At least on Saturday, Medlock seemed to be supporting Charles Hardt..
Aside from being a demagogue, supporting Hardt is another reason for me to not vote for CM. I'm really getting tired of the boasts about how Mudschlock knows how government works. I do believe even Bartlett spent more time on the council, did he not? How's that Great Plains investigation going?
I think he's done after this campaign. Someone please give him a job in the private sector, out of the public eye.
(http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/normal_demotivational-posters-rock-bottom.jpg)
Quote from: Conan71 on August 31, 2009, 10:47:18 PM
Aside from being a demagogue, supporting Hardt is another reason for me to not vote for CM. I'm really getting tired of the boasts about how Mudschlock knows how government works. I do believe even Bartlett spent more time on the council, did he not? How's that Great Plains investigation going?
I think he's done after this campaign. Someone please give him a job in the private sector, out of the public eye.
(http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/normal_demotivational-posters-rock-bottom.jpg)
Gotta admit, you're starting to sound like a paid-professional hack.
And, not to barter facts, but CM was not the Chair of the airports investigation, turncoat Sam Roop was, and who was the one actually in need of a job. This act led to a Council majority opposing funding the second phase (meat + potatoes) of the airport investigation and effectively silencing the issue. Bad government, cheesing out on a mere $46,000 expense.
As far as Council experience, anyone can fill the seat, even Randy Sullivan. So, besides the recent outside committee where Bartlett proposed buying the Broke Arrow Expressway and making it a toll road, what specific initiatives did he promote when he was a sitting Councilman?
I was refering to the actual concept of government as opposed to the way it works around here.
Makes one wonder just what it is of which you're tired.
Or, was that simply political cliche'?
Quote from: Wrinkle on August 31, 2009, 11:11:38 PM
Gotta admit, you're starting to sound like a paid-professional hack.
<snip>
Or, was that simply political cliche'?
Said without a trace of irony.
Quote from: Wrinkle on August 31, 2009, 11:11:38 PM
Gotta admit, you're starting to sound like a paid-professional hack.
And, not to barter facts, but CM was not the Chair of the airports investigation, turncoat Sam Roop was, and who was the one actually in need of a job. This act led to a Council majority opposing funding the second phase (meat + potatoes) of the airport investigation and effectively silencing the issue. Bad government, cheesing out on a mere $46,000 expense.
As far as Council experience, anyone can fill the seat, even Randy Sullivan. So, besides the recent outside committee where Bartlett proposed buying the Broke Arrow Expressway and making it a toll road, what specific initiatives did he promote when he was a sitting Councilman?
I was refering to the actual concept of government as opposed to the way it works around here.
Makes one wonder just what it is of which you're tired.
Or, was that simply political cliche'?
Oh no, I'm not a paid hack.
I simply see through Chris' schtick. He's a Limbaugh/Hannity/O'Reilly disciple, and doesn't have much else going for him. It's parrots like Mudschlock that give the rest of us life-long Republicans a bad rap. We don't need any sharper partisan politics than we already do in this city. Other issue for me is: anyone who goes for a post-grad degree knows damn good and well whether or not they finished the program and earned it. There's no grey area unless you are a pathological liar or total idiot. He also came on this forum and boasted that he had great Arbitrons. If they were so great, as he claimed, why did he get the axe from his radio gig? Idiot who can't read Arbitrons, or just a liar? He's also tried to bully others here by calling people out by name who do not post under their own name and who disagree with the guy, he's a bully. These are not characteristics I'd prefer in my next mayor. He's a political opportunist and bully in search of a good paycheck.
As far as Great Plains, as I recall he was going to finish shining the light on the misdeeds out at the airport...never happened.
Maybe he'd play better in Nashville.
Quote from: Conan71 on September 01, 2009, 09:18:54 AM
Oh no, I'm not a paid hack.
I simply see through Chris' schtick. He's a Limbaugh/Hannity/O'Reilly disciple, and doesn't have much else going for him. It's parrots like Mudschlock that give the rest of us life-long Republicans a bad rap. We don't need any sharper partisan politics than we already do in this city. Other issue for me is: anyone who goes for a post-grad degree knows damn good and well whether or not they finished the program and earned it. There's no grey area unless you are a pathological liar or total idiot. He also came on this forum and boasted that he had great Arbitrons. If they were so great, as he claimed, why did he get the axe from his radio gig? Idiot who can't read Arbitrons, or just a liar? He's also tried to bully others here by calling people out by name who do not post under their own name and who disagree with the guy, he's a bully. These are not characteristics I'd prefer in my next mayor. He's a political opportunist and bully in search of a good paycheck.
As far as Great Plains, as I recall he was going to finish shining the light on the misdeeds out at the airport...never happened.
Maybe he'd play better in Nashville.
+1. Another Marshall's beer to you, sir.
Quote from: rwarn17588 on September 01, 2009, 09:23:57 AM
+1. Another Marshall's beer to you, sir.
Conan's not drinking...DIBS
So, let me get this straight. You don't think there was anything dysfunctional going on at the airport, TAA or TAIT?
Does that mean you support Kitty and Bartletts' $7.1 million taypayer handout to BOK for TAIT/TAA's liabilities the city did not owe?
And, for the record, there's been no more profound 'bully' in Tulsa's recent history than Ms. Kitty. Bartlett is the next designated hitter there, but not likely as competent. OTOH, doesn't really take much to follow directions.
Whatever happened to:
1) The Great Plains investigation, including the $7mil we shelled out?
2) The further investigation into bribes for city contracts (conviction/sentencing continues)?
3) More public information on financial issues from moving City Hall?
4) Firefighters faking certification to get more money?
Bah. It's just a few million here. Ten million there. Some abandoned properties here. A ballpark and land grab there. Moving along . . .
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090901_11_A8_ChrisM92325
Medlock calls Bartlett a "liberal".
Look closely at the picture. Medlock calls himself a "concervative"
Spelling is hard.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on September 01, 2009, 09:53:56 AM
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090901_11_A8_ChrisM92325
Medlock calls Bartlett a "liberal".
Look closely at the picture. Medlock calls himself a "concervative"
Spelling is hard.
I just posted that picture on medlock's facebook page. Goes well with the flyer I got in the mail for "Bartlet"
I'm voting for Nathaniel Booth, at least he can spell.
Quote from: Townsend on September 01, 2009, 09:42:55 AM
Conan's not drinking...DIBS
Marshall's will keep for a month in the bottle, I suspect ;)
Quote from: Wrinkle on September 01, 2009, 09:44:34 AM
So, let me get this straight. You don't think there was anything dysfunctional going on at the airport, TAA or TAIT?
Does that mean you support Kitty and Bartletts' $7.1 million taypayer handout to BOK for TAIT/TAA's liabilities the city did not owe?
And, for the record, there's been no more profound 'bully' in Tulsa's recent history than Ms. Kitty. Bartlett is the next designated hitter there, but not likely as competent. OTOH, doesn't really take much to follow directions.
Wrinkle, I pay attention and respect to your posts and usually find your grasp of city issues and figures to be pretty well on target.
You obviously have paid little attention to any of my posts other than ones about your guy for mayor. I'm still PO'd about the payout to BOK, I don't know where you get the idea that I'm not. I simply asked what ever happened to CM's "audit" of the TAIT/TAA that was going to happen? If you really are disgusted with partisanship during Mayor Taylor's tenure, why on earth would you support a political thug like Mudschlock? Speaking of, wasn't he one of the chief sh!t stirrers in the whole wasted Christiansen/Roadhouse flap which turned out to be nothing out at Riverside Airport?
Quote from: Conan71 on September 01, 2009, 12:09:01 PM
Marshall's will keep for a month in the bottle, I suspect ;)
Nope, best if partaken in by the tenth...when is your ride?
Quote from: Townsend on September 01, 2009, 12:14:13 PM
Nope, best if partaken in by the tenth...when is your ride?
MS-150 is 9/26 & 9/27.
Boot of the Oklahoma rowing regatta is Oct. 3- A cooler of Marshall's may be heading to OKC with me ;)
Quote from: Conan71 on September 01, 2009, 12:16:11 PM
MS-150 is 9/26 & 9/27.
Boot of the Oklahoma rowing regatta is Oct. 3- A cooler of Marshall's may be heading to OKC with me ;)
My hat is off to you exercise man
Quote from: Townsend on September 01, 2009, 12:18:26 PM
My hat is off to you exercise man
Sounds like a Bud Light commercial in the making...
Nice effigy of "Bartlet"
Wrinkle, how can you pull for a guy when childish antics is his most effective tool of persuasion? Looks like he's blowing pretty hard here.
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2009/20090901_Medlock0901p1.jpg)
I've said this before, but a middle-aged Republican-voting woman told me two years ago:
"Chris Medlock is too immature to be mayor."
Quote from: Conan71 on September 01, 2009, 12:13:57 PM
Wrinkle, I pay attention and respect to your posts and usually find your grasp of city issues and figures to be pretty well on target.
You obviously have paid little attention to any of my posts other than ones about your guy for mayor. I'm still PO'd about the payout to BOK, I don't know where you get the idea that I'm not. I simply asked what ever happened to CM's "audit" of the TAIT/TAA that was going to happen? If you really are disgusted with partisanship during Mayor Taylor's tenure, why on earth would you support a political thug like Mudschlock? Speaking of, wasn't he one of the chief sh!t stirrers in the whole wasted Christiansen/Roadhouse flap which turned out to be nothing out at Riverside Airport?
I'm going to have to admit to not having read a lot of posts lately, but there are definitely those which get my attention. I do, however, seem to recall your dissatisfaction over the $7.1 million, yet your comments about the 'audit' of TAA/TAIT give the impression it could be something else.
IAC, if you've followed it, and I know you have, you'd be less than honest if you think it was CM's prerogative. You'd know the 'NEW' Gang of Five after Roop left prevented it outright by not authorizing the funding for the audit.
So much for transparency in government.
As for 'partisanship' either during the current administration or the current campaign, I can say it's almost not a factor. If Bartlett wasn't promoting himself as a conservative, I wouldn't even be talking about it. In fact, haven't here at all.
It's not about partisanship, imo.
Of the two, again imo, only one does have a true grasp of government as it was intended.
I don't know what CM did to push your buttons, but you've been unusually harsh there. Sure, he's made mistakes. There isn't one of them that hasn't. There's many more who are making decisions and mistakes with huge sums of our money which never gets reported.
The established keepers of local government don't like being questioned, and that's the only real reason you hear complaints about Chris being an aggitation. He asks questions. I'm perfectly glad the Roadhouse issue was at least aired. Even you would have to admit it had potential to be something else. Showing it wasn't was an important part of the process we would like to see much more often. So much of what goes on around here is not transparent that the parts that are almost don't matter. Those parts actually seem more orchestrated to give the appearance of propriety, when the real stuff happens elsewhere.
Breaking that cycle isn't going to be easy or be comfortable for those who have worked within that system for so long. CM would be a good start. DB would be more of the same.
That's the only point I wish to make. Everything else is just politics, campaigning and sour grapes.
Four years of CM could do no more harm than the last term has for the future of this city and its residents.
==================
"I wish that I knew what I know now, when I was younger"
http://www.slideonron.com/OohLaLa.htm
-"Ooh La La", Ronnie Lane vocals, lyrics by Ronnie Lane & Ron Wood 1973
Quote from: rwarn17588 on September 01, 2009, 12:57:25 PM
I've said this before, but a middle-aged Republican-voting woman told me two years ago:
"Chris Medlock is too immature to be mayor."
So, you rely on middle-aged Republican-voting women for your positions?
Even only two years ago, I'd have to say you've missed an entire cycle of evolution in CM. People do make progress, learn and modify their tactics. As I said, CM is the only one with a genuine grasp of how government should work. I stand by that statement, and I'm just a middle-aged voting, pudgey, balding infant of politics.
We'll get to Adelson later. Seems like a nice enough guy with some state legislative experience. But, in looking through his Senate accomplishments, and I have, it's filled with mostly low income, homeless, disadvantage medical issues. While admirable, by itself, I'd have to ask what that brings to a Mayor's race, or, more apropo, does that give him the ability to run a city? Perhaps, at least to some level of proficiency. But, I'd still suggest CM is the one who knows how it's supposed to work, given the choice. And, I have, or soon will be.
This thread was civil longer than I expected but is now gone , thanks to those that had meaningful thoughts.
The audit that Medlock wanted went away because of the 5 votes from the other gang of five councilors. Ask Jack about it, he predicted it would just vanish on the last discussion of it.
Quote from: MDepr2007 on September 01, 2009, 04:44:20 PM
This thread was civil longer than I expected but is now gone , thanks to those that had meaningful thoughts.
The audit that Medlock wanted went away because of the 5 votes from the other gang of five councilors. Ask Jack about it, he predicted it would just vanish on the last discussion of it.
Why are none of the candidates, to my knowledge, running on shaking down Public Works?
You think they are afraid it would hurt them to say this election is about the status quo and the pitiful job conducted for over 20 years by the backbone department of local government. Mayors are so co dependent on Charles Hardt. This should be a referendum on the real powers that be.
Here comes FOTD just in time to add some civility and put this thread back on track.
Christiansen is pushing the Charles Hardt angle pretty hard on the campaign trail. I think Medlock wants him to stay.
Oh, and just to add more info, it was a 23yo volunteer working for Medlock who was incapable of spelling conservative.
Some other comments on the "Dewey Bartlet" flyer:
Why say "national chairman of the National Stripper Wells Association?" Isn't that a bit redundant? And why, oh why, did the typo not involve leaving the words "Wells" off?
It says "Dewey Bartlett has devoed his life to creating jobs, .." but wasn't it reported he employs about 8 people currently but used to employ hundreds?
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 02, 2009, 07:10:56 AM
Some other comments on the "Dewey Bartlet" flyer:
Why say "national chairman of the National Stripper Wells Association?" Isn't that a bit redundant? And why, oh why, did the typo not involve leaving the words "Wells" off?
It says "Dewey Bartlett has devoed his life to creating jobs, .." but wasn't it reported he employs about 8 people currently but used to employ hundreds?
Look up Keener's web site, apparently, the family made part of their oil fortune in "Washinton" County, Ok. Sound like nice enough people, those Bartlets, but they are terribul spellars.
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 02, 2009, 07:10:56 AM
It says "Dewey Bartlett has devoed his life to creating jobs, .." but wasn't it reported he employs about 8 people currently but used to employ hundreds?
"Devoed" his life? Well, Dewey Jr does look a bit like Booji Boy.
Michael, nice job of posting Mr. Bartlett's business acumen.
Even I did better than that, as a percentage.
http://www.batesline.com/archives/2009/09/dewey-bartlett-jr-divorce-successful-businessman.html (http://www.batesline.com/archives/2009/09/dewey-bartlett-jr-divorce-successful-businessman.html)
Say, you wouldn't happen to know if the City publishes the equivalent of a "Net Worth" statement annually, would you?
Quote from: MichaelBates on September 02, 2009, 09:44:06 AM
"Devoed" his life? Well, Dewey Jr does look a bit like Booji Boy.
Typos are in the "in thing" with candidates
The divorce filings and extended period to settle are pretty common in marriages with significant assests (read: it takes a long time for "ritch" people to split the sheets).
It is concerning that he's characterized as spending more money than he was earning. I don't think I'd want such a fellow tending city money as if it were his own in that case.
Good research.
This small primary will help all of us identify how many extremists there are in the local GOP.
Having attending several council meeting while Bartlett was on the council one could come to the collusion he was there at Daddy's syndrome paying little attention to the citizen speakers. He is running on a condition with no policy change. It is that things will stand as is. IMO
Then Medlock is truly a renegade that takes a firm hand against the powers to be. He seems to be much more attached to the common people of Tulsa. Each is equipped with banners proclaiming their stand. In him citizens could see a drastic change of many polices. IMO
Now in this economy downturn that is predicted to continue for at least well in the next year, is a time to explore other resources to make changes with person by his profession that seems to be well informed?
I listened to Bartlett, Medlock and Falling's interviews on KRMG. Bartlett and Falling's realities don't seem to intersect ours all that much. Medlock had to spend his interview time trying to explain the MBA thing, the email thing, etc. Maybe it's just because i've talked to and heard from these people over and over, but i'm not impressed.
So far I hear better ideas coming out of the "underdog" candidates, including Nathaniel Booth.
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 06, 2009, 01:22:22 PM
So far I hear better ideas coming out of the "underdog" candidates, including Nathaniel Booth.
BONG HITS 4 JESUS!