The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

I live east of Memorial. I think there are some other TulsaNow regular posters who live out my way.   

Who are you? I am thinking of starting an East Tulsa appreciation society. 

I don't live there currently, but I was born and raised in East Tulsa. My parents still live there and I know of at least one poster who is in the nearby vicinity of them.

I was born when we lived at 14th & Elgin.  The home no longer exists (IDL), but I grew up in a house about two blocks from the Traffic Circle and live there once again caring for my Mother.

Closing on a place in east Tulsa this month, paying for home inspections... first home after years as a renter in Chicago.   ;D

One of y'all should've run for the Council seat.

I live in east Tulsa.  Sign me up.

I grew up at 38th & garnett. No longer an easterner, however.

Yay Ruf!!!  Glad to hear it!!! Welcome to homeownership, when's the big party?

Foundation damage on the front of the home... seller playing hardball... you know, all that was needed would have been two little words in the listing....

"As Is"

Since those words were missing, I may have to walk away from this one.

Hiding or trying to hide damage is wrong. You don't mention if there is a possibility the present owners didn't know about it.  However, would you have bought the house for the same price "As is"?  (Or why mention "As is".)  If not, what is the price difference and could you accept that?  Or is it a financing issue?   I hope you can work it out if you really want the place otherwise.

confusing.

Owner bought from seller at a small fraction of the value a couple of months ago, claims didn't know anything.
I can't tell if owner is related to seller or what.
I almost balked when nothing was disclosed after I made an offer.
Good news is the cracks in a couple of the walls don't reflect a crack in the slab.

May roll the cost of stabilizing poles for the front of the home onto the price, but I wouldn't have offered what I offered if these problems were either disclosed or the property was advertised as "as is."

Make sense?

I represented numerous real estate agents in hidden defects cares in pre-owned residential property cases. I cannot recall ever winning one based upon the "as is" language in a contract I believe in large measure since such is included in an adhesion-type contract. Free advice, if anyone is interested in purchasing a pre-owned residential property please go to OSCN and pull statutes 60 O.S. Sec. 831-839 and get to know your rights.

Mostly, good luck.

Adhesion-type contract?  I'm just an engineer, plain english if possible in a few words. 

Sounds like you are saying that if there is a (possibly truly unknown) defect the previous owner is liable financially to fix it even after an "as is" sale.  How about when the buyer has the place inspected and the inspector misses "it"?

My bad, sorry. Very briefly, an adhesion contract generally is in a common, boilerplate form, typically prepared by one party to the contract and is a "take it or leave it" to the non-preparing party. In my experience (maybe CF has had other experiences), but courts generally frown on these one-sided contracts.

Liability for failure to disclose known defects by either the home seller and/or the real estate licensee (realtors) is limited to "actual" damages and the prevailing party in a lawsuit is entitled to recover their attorney fees. Depending on the court, actual damages could be cost of repair and in one court, emotional distress damages. Here is the remedial statute for violations of Oklahoma's Residential Property Condition Disclosure Act:

60 O.S. § 837 (in pertinent part):

A.   The purchaser may recover in a civil action only in the event of any of the following:

   1.   The failure of the seller to provide to the purchaser a disclaimer statement or a disclosure statement and any amendment prior to acceptance of an offer to purchase;
   2.   The failure of the seller to disclose in the disclosure statement or any amendment provided to the purchaser a defect which was actually known to the seller prior to acceptance of an offer to purchase; or
   3.   The failure of the real estate licensee to disclose to the purchaser any defects in the property actually known to the real estate licensee prior to acceptance of an offer to purchase and which were not included in the disclosure statement or any amendment provided to the purchaser.

B.   The sole and exclusive civil remedy at common law or otherwise for a failure under subsection A of this section by the seller or the real estate licensee shall be an action for actual damages, including the cost of repairing the defect, suffered by the purchaser as a result of a defect existing in the property as of the date of acceptance by the seller of an offer to purchase and shall not include the remedy of exemplary damages.

Back to the "as is" issue. In several cases I handled, I advised the Courts of this well-reasoned precedent out of Illinois.

The term “as is” is generally understood to mean that the buyer is purchasing goods in its present condition with whatever faults it may possess. The term is similar to terms such as “with all faults” or “in its present condition,” and implies that the seller is relieved of any further obligation to reimburse for loss or damage because of the condition of the goods.

Lake Bluff Heating and Air Conditioning Supply, Inc. v. Harris Trust and Sav. Bank, 452 N.E.2d 1361, 1367 (Ill. App. 2nd 1983)Citations omitted. Accord, Kaye v. Buehrle, 457 N.E.2d 373, 376 (Ohio Ct. App. 1983)("It has been held that when a buyer contractually agrees to accept property “as is,” the seller is relieved of any duty to disclose."). Lost the argument every time. I even lost the argument where the home buyer signed an express waiver of liability, presumably because of the adhesion nature of the contracts.

It's not all bad news for the gweedster, I eventually win in these cases involving realtors because the home buyer could never establish the realtor had "actual knowledge" of the complained-of defect.

Thank you

In Chicagoland, I woulda thought someone was trying to pull a fast one....... in Tulsa, I just come to the conclusion this was handled unprofessionally....

In the "unprofessional dept," I was afraid even if I rolled the foundation repairs into the loan, I coulda seen an appraisal that would have required an additional structural inspection, then I could have had conflicting opinions on whether there was a problem with the main slab..... walked away.

Moving to Cherry Street.
Sorry, east Tulsa.   ;D

Renting or buying?   Good Luck.

So long as you account for the cost of structural repairs and any additional "stigma" cost of the structural issues you can forsee when it comes time for you to re-sell it, structurals can work in your favor as long as you accept that your market time could become unacceptable down the road or it may prove no issue so long as they were dealt with properly, there's a warranty on the repairs, and there's been no more active movement.

But, I can't blame you for walking away, especially if you felt your offer didn't reflect anything that should have been in the disclosure.  That whole thing smells fishy with the lack of disclosure, so you probably did the right thing Ruf.  I'm sure it's got to be a little frustrating if you were pretty much set on moving into this house.  You'll enjoy the Cherry St. area, I'm sure.  Are you buying or renting on Cherry St.?