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Talk About Tulsa => Other Tulsa Discussion => Topic started by: sgrizzle on February 22, 2010, 02:52:21 pm



Title: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: sgrizzle on February 22, 2010, 02:52:21 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/dining/27growl.html
Quote
The New Old Way to Tote Your Beer
By ROBERT SIMONSON

BY midafternoon on a recent Saturday, Bierkraft, the beer emporium and grocery on Fifth Avenue in Park Slope, Brooklyn, was half-filled with customers, many of them parents with babies or toddlers in tow. They were browsing the more than 1,000 varieties of bottled beer or surveying the listing of selections available on the 13 taps and 3 cask lines. Some carried a good-sized satchel.

Diaper bag? Gym clothes?

No. It was a tote for their growlers.

Growlers — 64-ounce glass vessels that look like a moonshine jug — have become the beer accessory of the moment. And the jugs, filled at taps in bars and stores, are not just the toys of the bearded, flannel-shirt, beer-geek set.

“In the beginning we tried to figure out, ‘Who’s going to be our market?’ ” said Ben Granger, 32, an owner of Bierkraft, which began filling growlers in spring 2006. “We thought, mullet-heads and beer-bellied dudes. But the first run was ladies with strollers. They will tell you they’re buying them for their husbands. Three weeks later, they’ve got two. One’s his and one’s hers. The next one that caught me by surprise was dads coming in with their kids. Then there’s the beer crowd who’ll rush in to get on this or that before it’s gone. There’s no age limit.”

Michael Endelman, a journalist at Rolling Stone, is one of those growler-loving fathers. “I don’t go to bars too much anymore,” he said, gesturing to his baby daughter Mimi. “It just seems like a great way to be a beer geek without going out.”

Some customers appreciate growlers for reasons of economy (refills range from $8 to $20 or more) or ecology. And as more craft brewers choose not to bottle their products, many fans like the idea of getting fresh beer that until recently was sold only in specialized bars.

Liz Thorpe, vice president of Murray’s Cheese, said she had two to four growlers at home at any given time. “Good beer makes everything more special,” Ms. Thorpe said while stocking up for a recent National Football League playoff game. “I like me some football, but I don’t like me some Coors Light. So I’m ensuring I will be happy this afternoon.” Barely a week has passed in recent months without some bar or beer store in New York City trumpeting the arrival of growlers, which are typically embossed with the name of their business. Even the Gristedes grocery chain has gotten in on the act; the University Place store in Manhattan began carrying them in November.

Offerings can change daily, even hourly.

Some new growler users believe they’re getting in on the latest thing, but beer lovers know better.

“Growlers have been around since Christ was a child,” Mr. Granger said. “We’re not doing anything new.”

In the late 19th century and the early 20th century, both The New York Times and The Brooklyn Eagle regularly published contentious stories about the containers, which then took the form of small galvanized pails. The articles cataloged the complaints of saloon keepers, who thought growlers cut into their profit, and those of temperance groups, who hoped to curb home drinking.

“Rushing the growler,” connoting children hustling pails of beer for adults from bar to table, was a common expression. The curious name is thought to be inspired by the rumbling noise escaping carbon dioxide made as the beer sloshed about in the pail.

In more modern times, growlers could be found at brew pubs like Heartland Brewery, which has served beer to go since opening in 1995. The jugs — which, according to the New York State Liquor Authority, have always been legal at both retail outlets and bars — have proliferated lately, said Heartland’s founder, Jon Bloostein, because there are more interesting beers to go in them.

“People’s palates have become more sophisticated,” Mr. Bloostein said. “Look at the number of beer bars in Manhattan, and especially Brooklyn. And the offerings at regular bars are leaning toward craft beers.”

The Whole Foods beer store on Houston Street began its program in 2007. The chain’s first to carry the vessels, it has done as much as any store to introduce New Yorkers to growler culture. The manager, Jeff Wallace, said he saw other reasons for the trend.

“It’s basically a really good way to promote recycling, because you bring back your jug,” Mr. Wallace said. “And it’s a cheap and affordable way to get fresh draft beer.” He said growlers made up half the beer store’s business. Whole Foods stores in TriBeCa and on the Upper West Side also offer beer for growlers.

That much-vaunted freshness, however, depends on how the bottle is filled.

“There’s always the possibility that someone may not fill the growler properly,” said Shane Welch, founder of Sixpoint Craft Ales brewery in Brooklyn, which sells its products in stores in growler form. Most stores and bars run the beer straight from the tap to the bottle. “If you don’t fill it to the top, if you don’t purge the air out of there, when you close the container it will be stale beer,” Mr. Welch said. “You probably have to drink it that night.”

Mr. Granger, who says growlers constitute a large percentage of his sales, has tried to avoid that possibility. He has a system in which bottles are filled under pressure through a plastic hose to keep out oxygen. Filled that way, he said, they could stay fresh for months unopened, and three to five days when opened.

“Ergo, no flat beer,” he said. “No oxygen in the bottle, no foaming beer, no waste."

No bar tab, either.


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: MichaelBates on February 22, 2010, 03:18:25 pm
I suspect growlers would run afoul of some Oklahoma law.

Seems like I read that, once upon a time, workers at the Anheuser-Busch Brewery in St. Louis could take home a pail of beer a day.

Blue Star Brewing Company (http://"http://www.bluestarbrewing.com/brewery/index.html"), a brewpub in San Antonio, sells 1/2 gallon growlers for $21; refills cost $13. They say the beer will remain fresh for 24 hours after opening.

(Blue Star Brewing also has good food, wifi, late hours, and bike rental, and they're located in the middle of an arts district (http://"http://www.bluestarbrewing.com/neighborhood/complex1.html") of lofts and studios created out of the old MKT freight terminal, right on the river about a mile south of the heart of downtown.)


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: Conan71 on February 22, 2010, 03:30:40 pm
They do growlers at River City Brewing Co. in Wichita and here's another which came up whilst doing a little Googling: Granite City Food & Brewery.  They advertise $10 growler refills, $5 on Tues & Thurs.  It's a chain or franchise system, not sure which.

http://www.gcfb.net/



Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: Gaspar on February 22, 2010, 03:40:02 pm
Coors used to let employees drink "responsibly" at work until someone was killed by a fork-lift.



Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: Red Arrow on February 22, 2010, 07:12:05 pm
You can buy the Growler containers at High Gravity.  I expect that M. Bates is correct about some goofy Oklahoma alcohol law.


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: DolfanBob on February 23, 2010, 09:20:11 am
Those dang Eastern Yankees are always one step ahead on everythang.
By gawd I wont one of dem der big jugga brew.
Marshall, make it so.


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: colemanking on February 23, 2010, 09:55:55 am
Coach's in Norman used to sell Growlers.  Can't remember the cost


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: TheTed on February 23, 2010, 11:30:07 am
This would be awesome. Draft beer is my main reason for going to the bar. If I can bring draft beer home for the weekend, I'd have little reason to leave the house.


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: sgrizzle on February 23, 2010, 02:32:09 pm
This would be awesome. Draft beer is my main reason for going to the bar. If I can bring draft beer home for the weekend, I'd have little reason to leave the house.

Imagine the effect on Conan's life if Marshall's came in 64oz containers.


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: Conan71 on February 23, 2010, 02:38:23 pm
Imagine the effect on Conan's life if Marshall's came in 64oz containers.

(http://www.sfbg.com/blogs/gsf/fat%20bastard%201.jpg)


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: cynical on February 23, 2010, 11:38:02 pm
The original posting suggested Marshall's sell growlers.  Please don't go there.

A problem with growlers is the requirement that brewers selling direct to the public such as Coach's, brew 3.2 beer.  Compared with real beers such as those brewed by Marshall's, Coach's comes across as not very interesting.  Marshall;s intentionally avoided establishing a brewpub for that reason.  They can sell kegs for consumption at pubs such as McNellie's and bottles for resale at package stores, but they can't sell growlers, kegs or bottles direct to the public. 

You want to drink good draft beer?  Go to McNellies with a designated driver and experiment.  Better yet, sign up for one of Elliot's "Beer University" presentations.  I went to my first this month and it was very informative.  Not all of the beers offered were drinkable, but you learn what is going on in the craft brewing business.  That is truly an adventure.  In moderation, of course.


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: TheTed on February 24, 2010, 11:54:54 am
The original posting suggested Marshall's sell growlers.  Please don't go there.

A problem with growlers is the requirement that brewers selling direct to the public such as Coach's, brew 3.2 beer.  Compared with real beers such as those brewed by Marshall's, Coach's comes across as not very interesting.  Marshall;s intentionally avoided establishing a brewpub for that reason.  They can sell kegs for consumption at pubs such as McNellie's and bottles for resale at package stores, but they can't sell growlers, kegs or bottles direct to the public. 

You want to drink good draft beer?  Go to McNellies with a designated driver and experiment.  Better yet, sign up for one of Elliot's "Beer University" presentations.  I went to my first this month and it was very informative.  Not all of the beers offered were drinkable, but you learn what is going on in the craft brewing business.  That is truly an adventure.  In moderation, of course.


Yet another ridiculous law that needs to be changed.

But it wouldn't have to be Marshall's selling the growlers. What's the legality of bars selling growlers? Being able to get a growler of anything at McNellie's would be heavenly. Missouri recently made that legal, with some very specific terms that would only allow a couple of bars in the state to do so.
http://stlhops.com/get-the-word-out-get-the-growler-law-changed/



Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: Nik on February 24, 2010, 12:46:43 pm
They can sell kegs for consumption at pubs such as McNellie's and bottles for resale at package stores, but they can't sell growlers, kegs or bottles direct to the public. 

Keep your eye on HJR1062.

Quote
Brewers either within or without this state shall be required to sell beer they produce to every licensed wholesale distributor who desires to purchase the beer, but brewers shall not be required to sell the beer they produce only to licensed wholesale distributors.  Brewers either within or without this state may sell beer produced at the brewery to adult consumers who are at least twenty-one (21) years of age and are physically present on the premises of the brewery.


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: Red Arrow on February 24, 2010, 06:17:02 pm
Keep your eye on HJR1062.


Does the second part about brewers "without" the state allow a brewer in, say MO, to sell beer to an Oklahoman while on the brewery site in MO?   The "within" state part makes sense.


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: brunoflipper on February 25, 2010, 08:37:00 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/dining/27growl.html

Freestate Brewery, circa 1989 and the original Breckenridge Brewery back in 1990 have both been doing the growlers since I was a wee drinking lad...



Me likes the HJR1062



Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: Nik on February 25, 2010, 10:53:21 am
Does the second part about brewers "without" the state allow a brewer in, say MO, to sell beer to an Oklahoman while on the brewery site in MO?   The "within" state part makes sense.

Good question. I have no idea. Granted, I don't have much experience reading legislation, but Oklahoma law has no effect in Missouri.


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: SXSW on February 25, 2010, 12:59:20 pm
Freestate Brewery, circa 1989 and the original Breckenridge Brewery back in 1990 have both been doing the growlers since I was a wee drinking lad...

Me likes the HJR1062

Same here, I wonder what its status is?  That would open the door for brewpubs to actually produce good beer.  While I really want to see refrigerated high point beer in liquor stores the most the issue with the brewpubs would be another step in the right direction.  Then we can work towards getting wine and beer in the grocery stores.  I could care less about the convenience stores and having liquor outside the liquor stores, but it would be nice to have Sunday beer/wine/liquor sales.


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: Conan71 on February 25, 2010, 01:06:04 pm
Anything that upsets the legalized organized crime syndicate Oklahoma liquor distributors won't fly if they can't get their fingers in the middle of it.


Title: Re: Does Marshall's need to Growl?
Post by: TheTed on February 25, 2010, 02:25:36 pm
I don't care where I have to buy it, be it a liquor store or a grocery store, I just want to be able to get New Belgium, Odell, and a bunch of the other craft beers that are available in every neighboring state except this one.

The ability to buy beer in grocery stores is overrated, just allow the liquor stores to sell good beer with no stupid warm beer only and Sunday restrictions.

Until then, this state will continue missing out on substantial amounts of sales tax from me, as I travel enough to not have to put up with this garbage.