Via email:
"Open Carry
The Oklahoma House today, May 4, passed HB3354, which has "open carry" as a provision. The vote was 61 Yeas, 37 Nays, with 3 excused.
This bill originated in the House under he authorship of Rex Duncan (R). In Duncan's bill it provided for retaining the confidentiality of SDA license holders. When it was sent to the Senate where it was authored by Sen. Anthony Sykes to Include current SDA law amended by striking "concealed" throughout the bill. This would permit "open carry."` It was passed in the Senate on April 21 by a vote of 33 Yea, 13 Nay, and was returned to the House.
It is not known if Gov. Henry will sign or veto this bill. Should he veto it, an override may be difficult considering the final vote in the House."
What is interesting is most people I know with an SDA (conceal-carry permit) license do not favor open carry, especially some people who have had great influence on existing firearms laws. I don't see a lot of people resorting to open carry due to this bill. There's good reasons for keeping a firearm concealed.
Most that I know that have CC, myself included, welcome this law. For them it really comes down to two things, one being it is no longer illegal if your shirt rides up and exposes the gun, and the other being that is is really hard to carry concealed in the summer. I don't see a lot of people carrying in the open after this, but I can see the practical application of it. Of course, anyone who really wanted to before could have gotten their Armed PI license, which allows you to carry open or concealed, on or off duty.
I hear spur sounds and "Man with no Name" whistles each time a door opens in my future.
Quote from: Townsend on May 06, 2010, 11:13:06 AM
I hear spur sounds and "Man with no Name" whistles each time a door opens in my future.
I really don't know where people get this idea that it's going to turn into the wild west. 40 other states have open carry in some form or another and don't have this problem. New Mexico has an open carry law that only says you have to have your gun licensed, which is required of all firearms. Not sue why so many get the impression that Oklahoma will be any differant.
Quote from: custosnox on May 06, 2010, 11:20:03 AM
I really don't know where people get this idea that it's going to turn into the wild west. 40 other states have open carry in some form or another and don't have this problem. New Mexico has an open carry law that only says you have to have your gun licensed, which is required of all firearms. Not sue why so many get the impression that Oklahoma will be any differant.
It was a failed attempt at humor.
I don't see wild West at all. If anyone walked up to just about anyone I knew and had 6 shooter tied to his/her hip, they'd quickly be moved away from.
They might as well have a skunk or rotting squirrel tied around their neck for the popularity it will bring them.
edited to add: I'm a happy gun owner that only carries on the way to the range.
Quote from: custosnox on May 06, 2010, 10:50:06 AM
Most that I know that have CC, myself included, welcome this law. For them it really comes down to two things, one being it is no longer illegal if your shirt rides up and exposes the gun, and the other being that is is really hard to carry concealed in the summer. I don't see a lot of people carrying in the open after this, but I can see the practical application of it. Of course, anyone who really wanted to before could have gotten their Armed PI license, which allows you to carry open or concealed, on or off duty.
The theory I'm hearing is that it would be easier for some POS to make a grab for your gun if they knew you had it on you. As well, citizens openly displaying firearms can have a negative connotation and possibly more fodder for tighter federal gun laws due to overblown images of "Tea Partiers" and "the far right fringe" showing up at political rallies with side arms. I took my SDA course this last Saturday from Paul Able in Shawnee. He's a career LEO and has trained countless others. As well, he's helped write the language of quite a few state gun laws as the legal director for ORA. He doesn't like the idea, but did say it cleaned up some of the lingering issues of CC.
I can see the point that open carry advocates have, and along with the premise you stated about if your shirt rides up it's no longer an issue of course that's always been at the discretion of an LEO as to whether or not to be a stickler about it, much like enforcing other laws.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 06, 2010, 11:49:24 AM
The theory I'm hearing is that it would be easier for some POS to make a grab for your gun if they knew you had it on you. As well, citizens openly displaying firearms can have a negative connotation and possibly more fodder for tighter federal gun laws due to overblown images of "Tea Partiers" and "the far right fringe" showing up at political rallies with side arms. I took my SDA course this last Saturday from Paul Able in Shawnee. He's a career LEO and has trained countless others. As well, he's helped write the language of quite a few state gun laws as the legal director for ORA. He doesn't like the idea, but did say it cleaned up some of the lingering issues of CC.
I can see the point that open carry advocates have, and along with the premise you stated about if your shirt rides up it's no longer an issue of course that's always been at the discretion of an LEO as to whether or not to be a stickler about it, much like enforcing other laws.
I wouldn't worry too much about people making grabs for guns. If this was going to be an issue you would be seeing a lot more security guards getting theirs taken. We have plenty of citizens already carrying in this form. The training on keeping their gun is about like their training on using pepper spray "spray this into the wind and see what happens. Okay, now you know how to use it, go have fun". Same goes for those with PI license, especially since they can open carry and not have a uniform.
Personally I think the biggest problems with this will come in the beginning when the billy bad a$$es slap a gun on their side and go out trying to act all bad a$$. You won't see a lot of them, but those that you do are going to give a bad name to those who carry for defense, and will, to paraphrase you, be catagorized as the "far right wing tea partiers". So I can see how these idiots will cause problems over all.
I really don't see many LEO's pushing the issue of the shirt riding up, but the fact that they could makes you worry about it when you do carry. I think I also push on this because I carry a desert eagle, and it can get really hard to conceal at times since it's not exactly a small gun. I know, get a smaller gun, but I can't afford to do that right now, and I wasn't thinking conceal carry when I bought it. It would also be nice to be able to put a paddle holster on and cover it with my jacket and not worry about wind blowing or anything like that. I think I like the idea of "mostly concealed"
Mr. Able also said LEO's selectively create their own interpretation of gun laws quite often.
That does not surprise me in the least. After all, law is always open to interpretation.
Quote from: custosnox on May 06, 2010, 03:26:59 PM
That does not surprise me in the least. After all, law is always open to interpretation.
Sort of like the "I have a right to not be offended" clause of the U.S. Constitution ;)
I am a lazy liberal and am indifferent to the outcome of this law. Why? Because I hope most use common sense and those who don't will most likely break other laws and be dealt with accordingly. I like guns though I personally only have an interest in shooting at the range and not to carry a gun around.
I wonder if some municipalities will adopt laws forbidding open carry, though I don't know the legality of doing so. Local governments may enact laws that are more restrictive than state law (when it comes to bicycles, for instance) yet they cannot adopt laws that are less restrictive than the state. So Broken Arrow could allow open carry yet Tulsa could forbid it.
Do any of you know if this is possible?
Quote from: Ed W on May 06, 2010, 05:22:25 PM
I wonder if some municipalities will adopt laws forbidding open carry, though I don't know the legality of doing so. Local governments may enact laws that are more restrictive than state law (when it comes to bicycles, for instance) yet they cannot adopt laws that are less restrictive than the state. So Broken Arrow could allow open carry yet Tulsa could forbid it.
Do any of you know if this is possible?
I believe there is a city in michigan that has banned handguns outright that has come under fire recently. I think there are several more examples across the nation but can't remember the exact examples. So it seems that, at least in other states, a municiple can make these restriction. I don't know of any reason why they couldn't here, depending on the wording of the new law.
While I understand the concerns of CCW holders regarding unintentionally exposing one's weapon, I don't think this law is the right way to address the situation.
Semi-concealed is just a bad idea. As a CCW holder, you'll probably find your life a lot easier if you keep the gun out of sight. People understandably get uncomfortable around people who are carrying, meaning you may find yourself in a discussion with the police about the situation thanks to some well-meaning person who saw the gun under your jacket.
I don't really care that much, although I will be sad to see loons open carrying at political rallies that have nothing to do with guns. It looks bad, and it can intimidate others. (whether or not they should be intimidated is another story)
I have been to other states and seen people with guns. It was just someone with a gun, no big deal. I didn't think anything about it until this topic had come up here. After a few weeks I am sure it will become part of the natural, every day background like in those other places. I think some of the guns and holsters can be rather neat looking, especially the old antique, ornate ones.
Arizona has had an open carry law for longer than I have been around, and that will be 47 years in July, and I have been living in AZ since May of '98. I spent the first three years here working for a company doing voice and data cabling installs, and have worked in all areas of the valley and all over the state doing installs and have come into contact with several hundred people in businesses, and people on job sites from all different trades and I can honestly say that I have only met one person who openly carried a gun.(And it was a very nice Colt .45 five shot revolver) The only other time I have come across people that have weapons in there possesion have been on camping trips to the lakes, or camping trips in forrest country, and then it was for protecion from wildlife, and before anyone cracks a comment in the years that I have lived here there have been people in the Tucson area attacked by mountain lions, bobcats and mountain lions northeast of Phoenix, and we have a good population of bears and coyotes. The former Mrs. Dback came across a mountain lion in the Troon area about 1/2 mile from the Four Seasons Resort when she had her dog walking and pet sitting service, and she then began to think about getting a gun and training for protection.
So I think you may have people exercising their right with this law, but I would not be worried about it.
Quote from: dbacks fan on May 06, 2010, 09:59:33 PM
Arizona has had an open carry law for longer than I have been around, and that will be 47 years in July, and I have been living in AZ since May of '98. I spent the first three years here working for a company doing voice and data cabling installs, and have worked in all areas of the valley and all over the state doing installs and have come into contact with several hundred people in businesses, and people on job sites from all different trades and I can honestly say that I have only met one person who openly carried a gun.(And it was a very nice Colt .45 five shot revolver) The only other time I have come across people that have weapons in there possesion have been on camping trips to the lakes, or camping trips in forrest country, and then it was for protecion from wildlife, and before anyone cracks a comment in the years that I have lived here there have been people in the Tucson area attacked by mountain lions, bobcats and mountain lions northeast of Phoenix, and we have a good population of bears and coyotes. The former Mrs. Dback came across a mountain lion in the Troon area about 1/2 mile from the Four Seasons Resort when she had her dog walking and pet sitting service, and she then began to think about getting a gun and training for protection.
So I think you may have people exercising their right with this law, but I would not be worried about it.
I think we will see a surge in it once it goes into effect, then after the new wears off it will drop dramatically.
Quote from: custosnox on May 06, 2010, 10:16:28 PM
I think we will see a surge in it once it goes into effect, then after the new wears off it will drop dramatically.
Exactly.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 06, 2010, 10:26:28 AM
Via email:
"Open Carry
The Oklahoma House today, May 4, passed HB3354, which has "open carry" as a provision. The vote was 61 Yeas, 37 Nays, with 3 excused.
This bill originated in the House under he authorship of Rex Duncan (R). In Duncan's bill it provided for retaining the confidentiality of SDA license holders. When it was sent to the Senate where it was authored by Sen. Anthony Sykes to Include current SDA law amended by striking "concealed" throughout the bill. This would permit "open carry."` It was passed in the Senate on April 21 by a vote of 33 Yea, 13 Nay, and was returned to the House.
It is not known if Gov. Henry will sign or veto this bill. Should he veto it, an override may be difficult considering the final vote in the House."
What is interesting is most people I know with an SDA (conceal-carry permit) license do not favor open carry, especially some people who have had great influence on existing firearms laws. I don't see a lot of people resorting to open carry due to this bill. There's good reasons for keeping a firearm concealed.
I think its amusing that we have to pass laws for something we have a constitutional right to do. What next, a law saying you can go to any church you want to or a law saying you can criticize a politician?
I cannot find this in print but KRMG was reporting a couple of hours ago this has passed a (I believe Senate and not House) 8-1 and it's expected it would have full chamber approval. With a Republican governor, it's being speculated this law could pass. I still think it's a bad idea.
I said I'd leave the Pseudoephedrine topic alone but it brought to mind the point that why should people have to be inconvenienced and to have the hardship of the expense and time out for a 4-8 hour course for a conceal carry license to be able to exercise a Constitutionally-given and protected right? That's punishing law-abiding citizens and has nothing to do with reducing gun violence.
I'd love to see the spin on this one of how it's any different than restricting access to PE. Same premise: the idea is to restrict access to those who should only be able to legally obtain and use it rather than those who would put it to nefarious means.
I won't carry openly...it just shows the bad guys who the first target should be. I would rather keep them guessing.
The good thing about Conceal and Carry is that it encourages you to keep your weight under control.
Only a few of you will get that. ;)
Quote from: Gaspar on February 23, 2012, 04:07:36 PM
The good thing about Conceal and Carry is that it encourages you to keep your weight under control.
Only a few of you will get that. ;)
Dunlop's disease and waste band carry don't go well together.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 23, 2012, 04:28:25 PM
Dunlop's disease and waste band carry don't go well together.
+1
Uncle Mikes disease.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 23, 2012, 04:40:07 PM
+1
Uncle Mikes disease.
I have had to buy one size smaller waist band just to keep the .45 auto and 6 extra clips from dragging the pants down - something NO ONE wants to experience....
Quote from: Conan71 on February 23, 2012, 03:55:13 PM
I cannot find this in print but KRMG was reporting a couple of hours ago this has passed a (I believe Senate and not House) 8-1 and it's expected it would have full chamber approval. With a Republican governor, it's being speculated this law could pass. I still think it's a bad idea.
I said I'd leave the Pseudoephedrine topic alone but it brought to mind the point that why should people have to be inconvenienced and to have the hardship of the expense and time out for a 4-8 hour course for a conceal carry license to be able to exercise a Constitutionally-given and protected right? That's punishing law-abiding citizens and has nothing to do with reducing gun violence.
Owning a gun is constitutionally protected. Carrying a concealed weapon is not. Don't look at me, look at the 9 fine folks on the US Supreme Court.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 23, 2012, 04:07:36 PM
The good thing about Conceal and Carry is that it encourages you to keep your weight under control.
Only a few of you will get that. ;)
My problem with waistband carry is that I started to notice that all of my jeans are developing holes right where the gun puts pressure against them. Makes me wish I could afford to step down to something that makes more sense to conceal carry than a a desert eagle.
Along those lines. Has smokeless tobacco sales nearly dried up? You never see a Skoal ring in a back or front pocket anymore.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 23, 2012, 11:05:47 PM
Along those lines. Has smokeless tobacco sales nearly dried up? You never see a Skoal ring in a back or front pocket anymore.
I still see them occasionally. I think it may still be more common where there is a place to spit.
Yeah, for some reason cowboys don't want to be known as "swallowers"
Quote from: jamesrage on May 13, 2010, 10:46:36 AM
I think its amusing that we have to pass laws for something we have a constitutional right to do. What next, a law saying you can go to any church you want to or a law saying you can criticize a politician?
What statute made open carry illegal in Oklahoma? Ive never found it.
I have never once in my life felt that I needed to carry a gun around with me. Never. I recognize that people do get robbed, raped, carjacked, et.c and that people need to feel safe. That doesn't mean that people need to run around impressing on people that they have power by openly carrying. Make no mistake. I love shooting. I don't own a gun, but I love to shoot. I just think that people who really feel that Tulsa OK is really that scary probably watch too much local news. ;)
My opinion aside, there was an attempt to get an open carry provision passed here at OSU Stillwater. One day a group called Criminals for Gun Control had a few of their members passing out fliers (while dresses in DOC orange jumpsuits and ski masks) A few students walked around with empty side holsters. It wasn't a very big deal althought it made the Tulsa Whirled. That night, the best friend of the head of that group was shot durring a home invasion. Supposedly 'some black guy' broke into his house and stole his backpack with his iPad in it. The intruder then shot him in the leg fled the sceen, dropping the backpack with the iPad still in it at the fenceline of the yard. The wound to his leg was minor, to say the least. They discription given of the man was 6'2" Black male mid 20's with dredlocks. He was never found or even spotted again. It seemed pretty clear to anyone with an ounce of skepticism what had happened. The best part was that the o' Colly (I think the AP picked it up too) reported what was said when one of the victems friends showed up. The friend asked him if he was OK. The victems response was "yeah, at least he didn't shoot me in the balls." :D I'm not saying the story validates my opinion above, I just think it's a funny story.
Quote from: jacobi on February 24, 2012, 08:30:26 AM
I have never once in my life felt that I needed to carry a gun around with me.
I am old school. I carry a musket.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on February 24, 2012, 08:41:21 AM
I am old school. I carry a musket.
Doesn't carrying the ramrod and all that powder in that deerskin hide get cumbersome?
Quote from: Hoss on February 24, 2012, 08:44:12 AM
Doesn't carrying the ramrod and all that powder in that deerskin hide get cumbersome?
Thanks for noticing.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on February 23, 2012, 05:25:26 PM
I have had to buy one size smaller waist band just to keep the .45 auto and 6 extra clips from dragging the pants down - something NO ONE wants to experience....
Six clips? What are you afraid of?
Well with six clips, I imagine nothing ;)
Quote from: jacobi on February 24, 2012, 08:30:26 AM
It seemed pretty clear to anyone with an ounce of skepticism what had happened.
It is? Then please, enlighten me.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 24, 2012, 09:21:51 AM
Six clips? What are you afraid of?
Well with six clips, I imagine nothing ;)
If you can't get it done in 6 shots, you're doing it wrong!
Quote from: Gaspar on February 24, 2012, 09:48:27 AM
If you can't get it done in 6 shots, you're doing it wrong!
even if there are seven of em? You gotta keep in mind mobs and zombie attacks
Quote from: custosnox on February 24, 2012, 09:49:17 AM
even if there are seven of em? You gotta keep in mind mobs and zombie attacks
Do you dress up when you carry that kind of firepower?
(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/three_amigos_film5_2086.jpg)
Quote from: Gaspar on February 24, 2012, 09:51:24 AM
Do you dress up when you carry that kind of firepower?
(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/three_amigos_film5_2086.jpg)
Picture isn't showing, so I can only assume it's me with my two side arms, shotgun, machete and baseball bats out for a sunday stroll.
Is that for trips to Woodland Hills?
Quote from: dbacks fan on February 24, 2012, 12:27:08 PM
Is that for trips to Woodland Hills?
Most important place is the Walmart on 81st and Lewis!
Quote from: Conan71 on February 24, 2012, 09:21:51 AM
Six clips? What are you afraid of?
Well with six clips, I imagine nothing ;)
I was hoping someone would ask that...
Not really 6 , just 2 extra.
If one was to check the archives of city ordnances on carrying guns in the open I am sure among the dust you will find where most cities in the west required the checking of guns when you entered the city.
Having had a permit to carry a gun before the present law was passed, when the permit was handed to me, was told “This is your permit to be charged for murder”.
My greatest fear was a policeman mistaking the reaching for the permit thinking I was reaching for the gun I was carrying.
Quote from: shadows on February 26, 2012, 02:25:53 PM
If one was to check the archives of city ordnances on carrying guns in the open I am sure among the dust you will find where most cities in the west required the checking of guns when you entered the city.
Having had a permit to carry a gun before the present law was passed, when the permit was handed to me, was told "This is your permit to be charged for murder".
My greatest fear was a policeman mistaking the reaching for the permit thinking I was reaching for the gun I was carrying.
Don't keep the permit in your holster.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 27, 2012, 05:59:33 AM
Don't keep the permit in your holster.
Had permit in billfold. Had to reach over the gun to get billfold from back pocket. Didn’t think about pinning it on front of coat. Those with permits today are subject to being justified killed. If exercising open carry and stopped by a plain clothes policeman don’t place your hand on your gun cowboy style or you can become another casualty. Still if the person is in plain clothes and you are exercising open carry make sure the gun is strapped down so a criminal cannot grab it and shoot you. If you are accosted by a criminal just tell them to wait a minute till you get your gun loose where you can get it out of the holster and point it at them.
Quote from: shadows on February 28, 2012, 02:39:18 PM
If you are accosted by a criminal just tell them to wait a minute till you get your gun loose where you can get it out of the holster and point it at them.
and then; "gimme another second partner, I need to pull this here hammer back..."
Quote from: Townsend on February 28, 2012, 02:58:09 PM
and then; "gimme another second partner, I need to pull this here hammer back..."
Something about getting to the town square before sundown I'm sure applied as well.
Sent from my Atrix4G with fat fingers
Quote from: shadows on February 28, 2012, 02:39:18 PM
Had permit in billfold. Had to reach over the gun to get billfold from back pocket. Didn't think about pinning it on front of coat. Those with permits today are subject to being justified killed. If exercising open carry and stopped by a plain clothes policeman don't place your hand on your gun cowboy style or you can become another casualty. Still if the person is in plain clothes and you are exercising open carry make sure the gun is strapped down so a criminal cannot grab it and shoot you. If you are accosted by a criminal just tell them to wait a minute till you get your gun loose where you can get it out of the holster and point it at them.
When you are stopped by an officer, the proper response is "I have a firearm in the car, and a license to carry it."
He will then ask you where it is. It may be on your person or in the glove compartment. If it is in the glove compartment or on your person, there should never be a shell in the chamber, and the safety should be engaged (if you have one). A chambered weapon constitutes intent. If you are fearful that you cannot engage an unchambered firearm fast enough, then you have no business carrying a one. From pull to slide to safety, it takes me .6 of a second.
The officer will ask that you exit the vehicle. He will ask if your weapon is loaded. You response is yes. He will ask if it is chambered. Your response should be no. He will remove the weapon from your person or your car and secure it.
He will ask for proper documentation, issue any citation necessary, run any serials, and return the unloaded weapon to you before you part ways.
You would be very surprised at how often this scenario occurs every day. It's not scary for you or for the officer. When an officer verifies that you have a CC, he knows immediately that you have gone through a 60-90 day criminal background check conducted by the OSBI. Your fingerprints have been scanned and checked against federal databases, and you are without felony or prior convictions for violence.
You have just become the safest guy he's going to meet all day!
Quote from: Gaspar on February 28, 2012, 03:50:12 PM
When you are stopped by an officer, the proper response is "I have a firearm in the car, and a license to carry it."
He will then ask you where it is. It may be on your person or in the glove compartment. If it is in the glove compartment or on your person, there should never be a shell in the chamber, and the safety should be engaged (if you have one). A chambered weapon constitutes intent. If you are fearful that you cannot engage an unchambered firearm fast enough, then you have no business carrying a one. From pull to slide to safety, it takes me .6 of a second.
The officer will ask that you exit the vehicle. He will ask if your weapon is loaded. You response is yes. He will ask if it is chambered. Your response should be no. He will remove the weapon from your person or your car and secure it.
He will ask for proper documentation, issue any citation necessary, run any serials, and return the unloaded weapon to you before you part ways.
You would be very surprised at how often this scenario occurs every day. It's not scary for you or for the officer. When an officer verifies that you have a CC, he knows immediately that you have gone through a 60-90 day criminal background check conducted by the OSBI. Your fingerprints have been scanned and checked against federal databases, and you are without felony or prior convictions for violence.
You have just become the safest guy he's going to meet all day!
From the TV shows I've seen and dash cam video I would expect a lot of screaming and crying in that scenario...and someone would be down on the ground with a foot on his neck. Probably seen too much negative footage.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 28, 2012, 03:50:12 PM
When you are stopped by an officer, the proper response is "I have a firearm in the car, and a license to carry it."
He will then ask you where it is. It may be on your person or in the glove compartment. He will ask for proper documentation, issue any citation necessary, run any serials, and return the unloaded weapon to you before you part ways.
You would be very surprised at how often this scenario occurs every day. It's not scary for you or for the officer. When an officer verifies that you have a CC, he knows immediately that you have gone through a 60-90 day criminal background check conducted by the OSBI. Your fingerprints have been scanned and checked against federal databases, and you are without felony or prior convictions for violence.
You have just become the safest guy he's going to meet all day!
...
There is no question that without a permit you can carry an unloaded gun in the glove department or a paper sack. But the statue being considered is to carry a gun in the open. Remember in the archives where the citizen in reaching for the gate keys to open the gate for the officer was fatally shot by the officer because he says he saw a flash of light.
Under the pending statue if one is using the open carry the placing ones hands on the gun is an open case for justified homicide by the officer.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 28, 2012, 03:50:12 PM
When you are stopped by an officer, the proper response is "I have a firearm in the car, and a license to carry it."
He will then ask you where it is. It may be on your person or in the glove compartment. If it is in the glove compartment or on your person, there should never be a shell in the chamber, and the safety should be engaged (if you have one). A chambered weapon constitutes intent. If you are fearful that you cannot engage an unchambered firearm fast enough, then you have no business carrying a one. From pull to slide to safety, it takes me .6 of a second.
The officer will ask that you exit the vehicle. He will ask if your weapon is loaded. You response is yes. He will ask if it is chambered. Your response should be no. He will remove the weapon from your person or your car and secure it.
He will ask for proper documentation, issue any citation necessary, run any serials, and return the unloaded weapon to you before you part ways.
You would be very surprised at how often this scenario occurs every day. It's not scary for you or for the officer. When an officer verifies that you have a CC, he knows immediately that you have gone through a 60-90 day criminal background check conducted by the OSBI. Your fingerprints have been scanned and checked against federal databases, and you are without felony or prior convictions for violence.
You have just become the safest guy he's going to meet all day!
The law doesn't seem to make a distinction between whether or not the magazine is loaded or there is a shell in the chamber. Consider that if you are carrying a loaded revolver and the wheel is fully engaged, it's chambered. I was instructed by my instructor (one of the original authors of the Oklahoma CCL law) that a single action semi-auto should be carried, chambered, cocked & locked for quicker reaction and to avoid the possibility of a slide jamb. Double action should be hammer down, one in the chamber, and safety engaged, if so equipped.
QuoteTITLE 21 ยง 1289.13. Transporting a loaded firearm
TRANSPORTING A LOADED FIREARM
Except as otherwise provided by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or another provision of law, it shall be unlawful to transport a loaded pistol, rifle or shotgun in a land borne motor vehicle over a public highway or roadway. However, a rifle or shotgun may be transported clip or magazine loaded and not chamber loaded when transported in an exterior locked compartment of the vehicle or trunk of the vehicle or in the interior compartment of the vehicle notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1289.7 of this title when the person is in possession of a valid handgun license pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act.
Any person who is the operator of a vehicle or is a passenger in any vehicle wherein another person who is licensed pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act to carry a concealed handgun and is carrying a concealed handgun or has concealed a handgun or rifle or shotgun in such vehicle shall not be deemed in violation of the provisions of this section provided the licensee is in or near the vehicle.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 28, 2012, 05:37:14 PM
The law doesn't seem to make a distinction between whether or not the magazine is loaded or there is a shell in the chamber. Consider that if you are carrying a loaded revolver and the wheel is fully engaged, it's chambered. I was instructed by my instructor (one of the original authors of the Oklahoma CCL law) that a single action semi-auto should be carried, chambered, cocked & locked for quicker reaction and to avoid the possibility of a slide jamb. Double action should be hammer down, one in the chamber, and safety engaged, if so equipped.
Not according to my instructor. If you are law enforcement you keep your primary weapon chambered. Any concealed weapon should not be. If an officer stops you and you are carrying a concealed weapon with a chambered round, that can be considered intent.
I'll have to look it up to see if that is actually law or just CYA advice.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 28, 2012, 06:44:25 PM
Not according to my instructor. If you are law enforcement you keep your primary weapon chambered. Any concealed weapon should not be. If an officer stops you and you are carrying a concealed weapon with a chambered round, that can be considered intent.
I'll have to look it up to see if that is actually law or just CYA advice.
Or if we have a confusion factor and different instructors are teaching different interpretations.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 28, 2012, 06:44:25 PM
Not according to my instructor. If you are law enforcement you keep your primary weapon chambered. Any concealed weapon should not be. If an officer stops you and you are carrying a concealed weapon with a chambered round, that can be considered intent.
I'll have to look it up to see if that is actually law or just CYA advice.
I carry mine with a round chambered. I have never had an officer even ask if it was chambered. I have been through the firearms act several times and have found no reference to having a round chambered being considered intent. In fact, the only thing I have found regarding having a round chambered is when your transporting a firearm, not carrying it as a concealed weapon, in which case it must have no ammo loaded or chambered. So far I have only had one take it from me, and that was my first contact and I told him before I had my license ready for him, and he just held onto it long enough for me to verify that. Any other times I have the license ready before hand and inform him I have the weapon as I hand him the license, and at most they ask me where I have it. Also the law states that having a license means the officer is not allowed to inspect the weapon.
Checked with my buddy at TPD, ant Conan is indeed correct. You can carry chambered. Intent only comes into play if you are otherwise breaking the law (drunk, combative, just robbed a liquer store). He says he stops quite a few folks who also think a chambered weapon is not allowed, but there is nothing in the law restricting it.
I still see no reason to chamber mine. Oklahoma Self Defence apparently teaches an extra measure of caution.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 28, 2012, 07:05:36 PM
Checked with my buddy at TPD, ant Conan is indeed correct. You can carry chambered. Intent only comes into play if you are otherwise breaking the law (drunk, combative, just robbed a liquer store). He says he stops quite a few folks who also think a chambered weapon is not allowed, but there is nothing in the law restricting it.
I still see no reason to chamber mine. Oklahoma Self Defence apparently teaches an extra measure of caution.
sometimes split seconds matter. Same reason cops make sure they have holsters that they are able to unholster their weapon as quickly as possible.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 28, 2012, 07:05:36 PM
Checked with my buddy at TPD, ant Conan is indeed correct. You can carry chambered. Intent only comes into play if you are otherwise breaking the law (drunk, combative, just robbed a liquer store). He says he stops quite a few folks who also think a chambered weapon is not allowed, but there is nothing in the law restricting it.
I still see no reason to chamber mine. Oklahoma Self Defence apparently teaches an extra measure of caution.
Chambered in your vehicle or on your person would be illegal if you do not have an SDA license or otherwise are not supposed to be in possession of a firearm.
The problem is, as my instructor described it, is that officers interpret the law different. Especially in smaller municipalities. It's interesting the confusion even amongst people licensed to carry or their instructors. I suspect one issue is how legalize is written, no wonder we are confused:
"Except as otherwise provided by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or another provision of law,
it shall be unlawful to transport a loaded pistol, rifle or shotgun in a land borne motor vehicle over a public highway or roadway. However, a rifle or shotgun may be transported clip or magazine loaded and not chamber loaded when transported in an exterior locked compartment of the vehicle or trunk of the vehicle or in the interior compartment of the vehicle notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1289.7 of this title when the person is in possession of a valid handgun license pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act."Personally, I think a wheel gun is probably the safest to carry, but can be more difficult to conceal unless you like to wear loose clothing or a jacket all the time.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 28, 2012, 06:44:25 PM
Not according to my instructor. If you are law enforcement you keep your primary weapon chambered. Any concealed weapon should not be. If an officer stops you and you are carrying a concealed weapon with a chambered round, that can be considered intent.
I'll have to look it up to see if that is actually law or just CYA advice.
My lawyer/instructor said to chamber it. Too much wasted time pulling the slide. I want that extra 6 tenths if I am in that situation.