Good story here:
http://www.tulsafoodblog.com/fast-food/new-quiktrip-tulsa-ok
(http://media.tulsafoodblog.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DSC03890.jpg)
This is the same format as they are building at 15th & Denver, Gilcrease, and I think 21st & Memorial
If you are a fan of Quiktrip, you should pack up the family and take a Memorial Day road trip to 51st & 129th to see this marvel.
4 entrances, outdoor patio seating, tea bar, coffee shop, ice cream and yogurt mixes, dozens of smoothy and slush machines, take & bake meals, etc, etc, etc.
ummmm.... Scott... that link set off my virus alerts.
Quote from: custosnox on May 29, 2010, 02:57:08 PM
ummmm.... Scott... that link set off my virus alerts.
Already been at least five times since last week's opening. I thought I posted about it earlier. Surprised the TW hasn't done a story about the opening. It's the only one open sofar.
And the one at 21st/Memorial is the old design. There will only be four of these at the outset. Three here in Tulsa (51st/129th, 412 and the Gilcrease, 15th and Denver) and one in Independence MO. Don't ask me why there.
Quote from: custosnox on May 29, 2010, 02:57:08 PM
ummmm.... Scott... that link set off my virus alerts.
Must have had a bunch of false positives..it was ok on mine.
Quote from: Hoss on May 29, 2010, 03:26:39 PM
Must have had a bunch of false positives..it was ok on mine.
not sure what happened, isn't setting anything off now.
If QuikTrip and Google ever merge, I'm running for the hills. ;)
I went there, it's pretty amazing. It's as different from an Old Quik Trip as an old Quik Trip is from some dirty 7/11 you'd see in OKC.
And yes, with this QT is going after Starbucks, Braum's and who knows who else's business.
I've gone twice and still amazed. Didn't make it to the "non-carbonated beverage wing" until my second trip. There is a lot of intelligence in the design. The aisles are arranged in such a way and the staff is slightly elevated so they can actually see almost everything and everyone in the store. It's a lot larger footprint and a lot more variety but I bet they can run it with only one or two more people.
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 29, 2010, 01:28:35 PM
4 entrances, outdoor patio seating, tea bar, coffee shop, ice cream and yogurt mixes, dozens of smoothy and slush machines, take & bake meals, etc, etc, etc.
The take & bake meals seem to have appeared in the normal QTs as well. At first I saw just pizza and lasagna, today I also saw enchilda dinners, fettuccine alfredo, possibly others?
So my inner glutton said "I gotta try this!" and got one of the lasagnas. I thought it was god awful. Way too much sauce which turned into a soup of puke-like consistency, the sea of which most of the cheeses got lost in. The melted cheese on top also reminded me of imitation cheese, although the label listed real. Takes an hour to cook even though it is only refrigerated, not frozen.
I'm sure my unholy desire for more calories will convince me to try another type of take & bake meal though.
I wonder if the store on 15th & Denver will have tables outside? With the amount of transients that frequent that store already it could become a hot spot.
Quote from: rdj on May 29, 2010, 09:12:10 PM
I wonder if the store on 15th & Denver will have tables outside? With the amount of transients that frequent that store already it could become a hot spot.
I was wondering that, too. I wouldn't want to see the crowd that would gravitate toward that patio. The Gilcrease location isn't a whole lot better.
Bring one of those to Phoenix and it will cripple Circle K (who is already trying to match QT) and crush the remaining 7-11's.
Anyone know why QT is not in the OKC market? On Cue Express is the closest thing. I'm also amused by the total lack of collusion in gas pricing in the OKC metro. I've literally seen a .30 difference in a mile span. You can pretty much count on gas prices being the same all over Tulsa with stations selling "100%" gas being .10 higher than 10% ethanol gas vendors.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 30, 2010, 11:32:18 AM
Anyone know why QT is not in the OKC market? On Cue Express is the closest thing. I'm also amused by the total lack of collusion in gas pricing in the OKC metro. I've literally seen a .30 difference in a mile span. You can pretty much count on gas prices being the same all over Tulsa with stations selling "100%" gas being .10 higher than 10% ethanol gas vendors.
Gentlemen's agreement between Chester Cadieux and the owner of the 7-11 stores in OKC...he (Cadieux) won't put stores in OKC as long as the 7-11 owner reciprocates regarding Tulsa.
It's worked sofar, but I'm guessing when one breaks it then it's a free-for-all. I'm guessing the 7-11 owner won't be the one to break it, because QuikTrip would pwn them.
;D
I'd like to see real 7-11's in Tulsa. Their slurpees dominate any QT equivalent.
But those OKC 7-11 are 7-11's in name only, urinating on the good name of 7-11 with their crappiness. The general opinion of Oklahoma is probably significantly decreased when out-of-staters stop in to OKC 7-11's and see they've stepped back in time to some weird 1970s 7-11 with none of the actual products people associated with 7-11.
Quote from: TheTed on May 30, 2010, 02:02:39 PM
I'd like to see real 7-11's in Tulsa. Their slurpees dominate any QT equivalent.
But those OKC 7-11 are 7-11's in name only, urinating on the good name of 7-11 with their crappiness. The general opinion of Oklahoma is probably significantly decreased when out-of-staters stop in to OKC 7-11's and see they've stepped back in time to some weird 1970s 7-11 with none of the actual products people associated with 7-11.
All the 7-11's in Arizona and the one's I've seen in California are equally as shi**y. They are all dirty ghetto marts. As long as there are QT's available there is no reason to ever step foot in a 7-11.
Quote from: azbadpuppy on May 31, 2010, 10:23:14 AM
All the 7-11's in Arizona and the one's I've seen in California are equally as shi**y. They are all dirty ghetto marts. As long as there are QT's available there is no reason to ever step foot in a 7-11.
Why do you think the Cadieux's put stores in Phoenix (now also in Tucson)?
And I'd agree. EVERY 7-11 I've ever been in I felt like I needed a power-wash applied after the trip. Something to wash the 'nasty' off.
Quote from: Hoss on May 31, 2010, 01:15:24 PM
Why do you think the Cadieux's put stores in Phoenix (now also in Tucson)?
And I'd agree. EVERY 7-11 I've ever been in I felt like I needed a power-wash applied after the trip. Something to wash the 'nasty' off.
An intersting note on this is the number of other c-stores Circle K has bought up is crazy. There are some intersections with two and three K within eye shot of each other. And there actually is some place worse that 7-11, am/pm stores.
Decided to stop in since I was out and needed gas. Got a few extra photo's that I figured our displaced Tulsan out in Phoenix might appreciate
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/custosnox/0531101601a.jpg)
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/custosnox/0531101558a.jpg)
[(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/custosnox/0531101550b.jpg)
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/custosnox/0531101550a.jpg)
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/custosnox/0531101549a.jpg)
Quote from: Hoss on May 31, 2010, 01:15:24 PM
Why do you think the Cadieux's put stores in Phoenix (now also in Tucson)?
And I'd agree. EVERY 7-11 I've ever been in I felt like I needed a power-wash applied after the trip. Something to wash the 'nasty' off.
It was a very happy day indeed when I moved to Phoenix and saw the familiar red QT signs.
Most Circle K's are nasty too...
The only c-store I've been to that rivals QT (IMO) are the Wawa stores in the mid-atlantic/northeast.
Wawa store were just getting started when we moved here from suburban Philly. When I was a kid, we got Wawa milk delivered to the house. I (just barely) remember an elementary school trip to the Wawa Dairy. Pretty cool stuff when you are a suburban 8 or 9 year old.
One thing I love about the Wawa's in NJ is they have full deli counters.
Quote from: custosnox on May 31, 2010, 05:24:32 PM
Decided to stop in since I was out and needed gas. Got a few extra photo's that I figured our displaced Tulsan out in Phoenix might appreciate
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/custosnox/0531101601a.jpg)
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/custosnox/0531101558a.jpg)
[(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/custosnox/0531101550b.jpg)
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/custosnox/0531101550a.jpg)
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/custosnox/0531101549a.jpg)
What makes it even better is that it's on my way to work everyday and on my way home from work everyday...
;D
Quote from: Hoss on May 31, 2010, 07:12:22 PM
What makes it even better is that it's on my way to work everyday and on my way home from work everyday...
;D
They need to open up one of these new fancy ones in Phoenix pronto!
There are already over 70 QT's in the Phoenix metro, and they are adding new ones all the time. Every time I go in one they are packed. Obviously they are quite successful and know what works. I'm sure this new concept will be very well received and will soon start showing up in the other markets, I hope!
Quote from: azbadpuppy on May 31, 2010, 07:34:03 PM
They need to open up one of these new fancy ones in Phoenix pronto!
There are already over 70 QT's in the Phoenix metro, and they are adding new ones all the time. Every time I go in one they are packed. Obviously they are quite successful and know what works. I'm sure this new concept will be very well received and will soon start showing up in the other markets, I hope!
Thx custosnox for the pics, it is impressive. And I agree azbad they need to do some here. The outside area might be lightly used for about 4 months durring the summer, but October thru May the would be an absolute hit!
Quote from: dbacks fan on May 31, 2010, 08:14:32 PM
Thx custosnox for the pics, it is impressive. And I agree azbad they need to do some here. The outside area might be lightly used for about 4 months durring the summer, but October thru May the would be an absolute hit!
NP, seems that the interior doesn't like my cell phone camera too much, but I think it gives you an idea of what it's like. Personally I think it's got at least 25% more floor space then the current QTs. It does seem to open up quiet a bit more by moving the counter (which I managed to not get a picture of) against the wall, opposite of the coffee bar. My daughter was inlove as soon as she saw that they had iced coffee next to the standard coffe despencers. Of course, there was the whipped cream despensers as well...
Quote from: azbadpuppy on May 31, 2010, 07:34:03 PM
They need to open up one of these new fancy ones in Phoenix pronto!
There are already over 70 QT's in the Phoenix metro, and they are adding new ones all the time. Every time I go in one they are packed. Obviously they are quite successful and know what works. I'm sure this new concept will be very well received and will soon start showing up in the other markets, I hope!
When they were talking about it last year, that's what they intonated. They wanted to try it out in some test markets (it doesn't hurt that this one they just opened is a half mile from QT Corporate offices) to see if it would be viable. I'm betting, after the few times I've been, it will.
The new QTs look great. One question I have is why not this design for brookside with all the tables and chairs out front. The QT expansion really disrupts the flow to Brookside. Also Im surprised they are putting this at 15th and Denver. That area is already bum central why give them more reason to hang out.
Quote from: swampee on June 01, 2010, 07:04:13 AM
The new QTs look great. One question I have is why not this design for brookside with all the tables and chairs out front. The QT expansion really disrupts the flow to Brookside. Also Im surprised they are putting this at 15th and Denver. That area is already bum central why give them more reason to hang out.
To put this style store on brookside, they would have to likely remove a house or two on the west.
An alternate layout, with their expanded space, would be to split the pump islands and put 8 pumps on the north side and 8 on the south and put the store in the middle.
Quote from: sgrizzle on June 01, 2010, 08:05:02 AM
To put this style store on brookside, they would have to likely remove a house or two on the west.
An alternate layout, with their expanded space, would be to split the pump islands and put 8 pumps on the north side and 8 on the south and put the store in the middle.
I don't think that would work out with why they have the space on the back of the building now. It was to allow delivery vehicles access and not interfere with customer traffic. Splitting the gas islands nullifies that.
Quote from: Hoss on June 01, 2010, 08:20:01 AM
I don't think that would work out with why they have the space on the back of the building now. It was to allow delivery vehicles access and not interfere with customer traffic. Splitting the gas islands nullifies that.
Does QT ever do just stores without gas pumps? They should really do an urban version of this new concept for areas like Brookside or DT. I know 7-11 has many urban inner city stores without gas pumps.
Quote from: azbadpuppy on June 01, 2010, 10:08:20 AM
Does QT ever do just stores without gas pumps? They should really do an urban version of this new concept for areas like Brookside or DT. I know 7-11 has many urban inner city stores without gas pumps.
That's come up under different discussions on here, I think specifically talking about opening some sort of convenience store in the Mayo Parking Plaza to the west of the Mayo Hotel. I have no idea if anyone from QT reads these forums, but if they are eaves-dropping, I hope it's a concept they would consider. However, when you work with "templates" and repeatability, it's kind of hard to break from those paradigms for a one-off or two.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 01, 2010, 10:12:31 AM
That's come up under different discussions on here, I think specifically talking about opening some sort of convenience store in the Mayo Parking Plaza to the west of the Mayo Hotel. I have no idea if anyone from QT reads these forums, but if they are eaves-dropping, I hope it's a concept they would consider. However, when you work with "templates" and repeatability, it's kind of hard to break from those paradigms for a one-off or two.
Technically, the store they have inside the Sprint Center in KC is that way.
But the reason for going is entirely different.
Is there a plan to open one of these new versions on Brookside where the Lee's Bicycle was torn down? If an "urban" QT ever made sense, it would make sense on Brookside which is one of the only truly pedestrian friendly neighborhoods in Tulsa.
Quote from: DowntownDan on June 01, 2010, 03:51:19 PM
Is there a plan to open one of these new versions on Brookside where the Lee's Bicycle was torn down? If an "urban" QT ever made sense, it would make sense on Brookside which is one of the only truly pedestrian friendly neighborhoods in Tulsa.
Like I said before, four prototypes were planned. Three in Tulsa (51st/129th, Gilcrease Museum Rd and Hwy 412, 15th and Denver), one in Independence, MO. They'll evaluate and see how they do and take it from there.
Do keep in mind that these store are larger than the current stores. I wouldn't necessarily classify this as an 'urban' QT. It's just better designed.
Quote from: swampee on June 01, 2010, 07:04:13 AM
The new QTs look great. One question I have is why not this design for brookside with all the tables and chairs out front. The QT expansion really disrupts the flow to Brookside. Also Im surprised they are putting this at 15th and Denver. That area is already bum central why give them more reason to hang out.
Hey! that is my hood you're disparaging.
What makes them hang out is the easy money from the people going in and out. Stop giving them your quarters and they will move along.
Quote from: carltonplace on June 03, 2010, 01:57:18 PM
Hey! that is my hood you're disparaging.
What makes them hang out is the easy money from the people going in and out. Stop giving them your quarters and they will move along.
I would have thought it would be the public bathrooms, but then again, I don't think they care if they have one available or not.
I read where the QT at 51st and 129th has 16 pumps and all the parking is on the side of the building. Also there is picnic tables out front.
I thought the bulk of their money was made on their fuel and the concept of you being there less than 2 minutes in the store. Not hanging around out front for who knows how long eating their quickie sandwiches.
Quote from: DolfanBob on June 03, 2010, 02:39:26 PM
I read where the QT at 51st and 129th has 16 pumps and all the parking is on the side of the building. Also there is picnic tables out front.
I thought the bulk of their money was made on their fuel and the concept of you being there less than 2 minutes in the store. Not hanging around out front for who knows how long eating their quickie sandwiches.
You can see tables in the photos I posted with my kids sitting at one, though I didn't bother counting the pumps while I was there.
I heard somewhere that convienance stores make little to no profit on gas, and sometimes opperate at a loss on it. It is just there to draw people in to get the quickie sandwiches and what not.
Quote from: DolfanBob on June 03, 2010, 02:39:26 PM
I thought the bulk of their money was made on their fuel and the concept of you being there less than 2 minutes in the store. Not hanging around out front for who knows how long eating their quickie sandwiches.
Tobacco and beer.
Quote from: custosnox on June 03, 2010, 02:42:38 PM
You can see tables in the photos I posted with my kids sitting at one, though I didn't bother counting the pumps while I was there.
I heard somewhere that convienance stores make little to no profit on gas, and sometimes opperate at a loss on it. It is just there to draw people in to get the quickie sandwiches and what not.
And you'd be correct. Which is why so many c-stores without fuel pumps never make it longer than about a year unless they serve niche demo. I was in the c-store business many moons ago (when I lived in Houston I worked for a company that was a fuel vendor for MANY mom & pop c-stores in Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida and we provided fuel for the now-defunct Dairy Mart chain of c-stores).
I went to the new concept store last Saturday.
Had myself a nice cold Latte made for me by one of two employees at the all new Coffee/Latte bar. Kinda like a Ice cream bar but java.
It comes across like their version of Flying-J or Loves truck stops. Kinda weird to me.
Probably just means more Ka Ching.
I'm still waiting for QT to open up a store near the Tulsa Hills area. Even with the new QT going in way out in Glenpool @ 121st, there is still 11 miles of "gas station purgatory" along Hwy 75 corridor northbound into downtown. The only serious option is the QT at 15th and Denver, otherwise you're stuck. In my opinion, 81st & Hwy 75 would make an ideal spot. Easy on and off the highway and it would be great for all of the folks who live west of the river and also who use the Creek Turnpike to come in to downtown from South Tulsa.
Am I just crazy or should QT already be building this store? The demand is THROUGH THE ROOF.
Quote from: bacjz00 on June 08, 2010, 07:49:22 PM
I'm still waiting for QT to open up a store near the Tulsa Hills area. Even with the new QT going in way out in Glenpool @ 121st, there is still 11 miles of "gas station purgatory" along Hwy 75 corridor northbound into downtown. The only serious option is the QT at 15th and Denver, otherwise you're stuck. In my opinion, 81st & Hwy 75 would make an ideal spot. Easy on and off the highway and it would be great for all of the folks who live west of the river and also who use the Creek Turnpike to come in to downtown from South Tulsa.
Am I just crazy or should QT already be building this store? The demand is THROUGH THE ROOF.
Agreed. I sometimes use the one on Union Ave (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=trip&sll=36.089945,-96.011796&sspn=0.007959,0.016093&ie=UTF8&hq=quiktrip&hnear=&ll=36.092372,-96.011796&spn=0.007959,0.016093&z=16&iwloc=A), but it's a small detour
Is there someone at QuikTrip whose doorbell I can ring on this? Honestly, I would have expected them to break ground on one in the Tulsa Hills area over 2 years ago. Is there someone at QT holding a grudge over land brokers in this area or what? What am I missing?
It's starting to annoy me and the other 50,000+ travelers per day who share this stretch of "road" according to the latest INCOG traffic count.
I have family working at Wawa in the east. Am told it is very nice.
Remember Git-N-Go? And the old neon signs they had. I assembled a few of those in the 60's. Big porcelain steel panels that you could climb up inside. Cantankerous Old Fart named Clifford made a lot of the neon for many of them. I also wired up some of the neon and got zapped on occasion with the 40,000 to 60,000 volt ballasts used therein.
Very cool stuff!
Wish they (QuikTrip) would get over that OKC thing or at least go to Moore/Norman. Just can't hardly take 7/11. Whoever their marginally legal anti-trust agreement was with, it is time to move on.
Am I engaging in topic drift??
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 08, 2010, 10:13:47 PM
I have family working at Wawa in the east. Am told it is very nice.
Remember Git-N-Go? And the old neon signs they had. I assembled a few of those in the 60's. Big porcelain steel panels that you could climb up inside. Cantankerous Old Fart named Clifford made a lot of the neon for many of them. I also wired up some of the neon and got zapped on occasion with the 40,000 to 60,000 volt ballasts used therein.
Very cool stuff!
Wish they (QuikTrip) would get over that OKC thing or at least go to Moore/Norman. Just can't hardly take 7/11. Whoever their marginally legal anti-trust agreement was with, it is time to move on.
Am I engaging in topic drift??
You've not been reading.
No 'marginally legal anti-trust' stuff going on here. It's a gentleman's agreement to not invade each other's local markets. Simple as that. Has been around for years, likely will be around for more.
Those kind of gentlemen's agreements would seem to be custom made for anti-trust and anti-competitive considerations.
I suspect it will continue, and I don't begrudge either party their agreement. Just wish it would go away so can get a QT in OKC area - Moore/Norman when am there. (I had always heard it was between Love's and Cadieux... maybe he made two?)
Have met Chester and his wife and they are good people. And the company is great to work for from people I have talked to who work there.
Heir- On Cue has a store at SE 15th & Air Depot in MWC and they are opening two more near simultaneously on prime plots at SE 29th & Sooner and 29th & Douglas- basically off the north corners of Tinker.
My GF has posited that perhaps the On Cue concept is QT stepping around the agreement. I don't know I'd carry it that far but whomever it is, has studied QT very well. Store and gas island layouts are very similar, brick colors are even close- and then the whole "Cue" thing. Whomever it is has a huge chunk of cash. The locations are primo and the build-out is first rate.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 08, 2010, 10:13:47 PM
I have family working at Wawa in the east. Am told it is very nice.
I've heard good things about WaWa, too. But Sheetz is apparently the gold standard, from what I've heard.
QT is just starting to dabble in some made to order drinks. Sheetz has an insane amount of made to order food.
http://www.dictailgate.com/wordpress/2010/02/03/sheetz-vs-wawa-round-3/
Visited the new QT yesterday..
Seems the pump payment options are more limited than the standard QT. It only had "Prepay inside" or swipe outside...
Or, am I just slow to notice the change everywhere (I always pay at the pump).
Quote from: BKDotCom on June 09, 2010, 08:05:21 AM
Visited the new QT yesterday..
Seems the pump payment options are more limited than the standard QT. It only had "Prepay inside" or swipe outside...
Or, am I just slow to notice the change everywhere (I always pay at the pump).
QT Prepay inside has been the standard at all QT stores for some time now. Stems from a rash of drive-offs they had a few years ago.
Quote from: Hoss on June 09, 2010, 08:46:36 AM
QT Prepay inside has been the standard at all QT stores for some time now. Stems from a rash of drive-offs they had a few years ago.for years and years.
I worked for QT 20 years ago and we had drive offs all the time.
They sent a memo telling us to not run out after them to see the tag after one of our assistant managers was shot at in the old 244 location.
Quote from: Townsend on June 09, 2010, 09:30:38 AM
I worked for QT 20 years ago and we had drive offs all the time.
They sent a memo telling us to not run out after them to see the tag after one of our assistant managers was shot at in the old 244 location.
Of course you have, but they got increasingly worse a few years ago, hence the policy change.
Old 244 location? Are you talking about the one just north of 244 on Mingo that was just south of the old QT corporate office?
Quote from: Hoss on June 09, 2010, 08:46:36 AM
QT Prepay inside has been the standard at all QT stores for some time now. Stems from a rash of drive-offs they had a few years ago.
Anyone still use the QT pump start card ? I still use mine all the time.
Conan,
I checked their web site and they are Simple Simon's group.
Thanks! Will have to check it out next time I get close.
Quote from: DolfanBob on June 09, 2010, 10:25:39 AM
Anyone still use the QT pump start card ? I still use mine all the time.
Mine died, and you have to jump through a few hoops to get a new one, so I just said to heck with it and either pay at the pump or prepay. Too bad, since it made it easier to fill up with cash.
Speaking of QuikTrip's I was trying to find where a friend of mine lived in 1994 that was off of 81st and Yorktown. Was there a QuikTrip or was it a Git-N-Go that was on the southwest corner of 81st and Yorktown across from the WalMart?
Quote from: dbacks fan on June 09, 2010, 06:16:28 PM
Speaking of QuikTrip's I was trying to find where a friend of mine lived in 1994 that was off of 81st and Yorktown. Was there a QuikTrip or was it a Git-N-Go that was on the southwest corner of 81st and Yorktown across from the WalMart?
That was a QT and it was there until a few years ago. I'm pretty sure the new location at 96th & Delaware being built is when they shut that one down. Although that is a pretty far distance for QT standards. 81st & Lewis is kind of a QuikTrip dry spot, but I suppose they know their own demands better than I.
"...but I suppose they know their own demands better than I."
I don't think anyone really knows what QT is thinking. I can't figure out why they or any other gasoline retailer won't open a store along 75 corridor into downtown. It continues to be the most underserved stretch of highway in the city limits. 10+ miles with no convenient access to fuel. Geebus, someone loan me the money and I'll go do it myself and pay you back the entire amount in what....a month? maybe two? I still can't get that 50,000 average daily traffic count out of my head.
Quote from: bacjz00 on June 09, 2010, 11:03:01 PM
"...but I suppose they know their own demands better than I."
I don't think anyone really knows what QT is thinking. I can't figure out why they or any other gasoline retailer won't open a store along 75 corridor into downtown. It continues to be the most underserved stretch of highway in the city limits. 10+ miles with no convenient access to fuel. Geebus, someone loan me the money and I'll go do it myself and pay you back the entire amount in what....a month? maybe two? I still can't get that 50,000 average daily traffic count out of my head.
I got to thinking about this. Maybe it's the same as the issue with the ground in east Tulsa, out by Eastland Mall, where the rock layer is really shallow. Makes for difficult and expensive submerging of tanks to store the gasoline in.
Quote from: bacjz00 on June 09, 2010, 11:03:01 PM
"...but I suppose they know their own demands better than I."
I don't think anyone really knows what QT is thinking. I can't figure out why they or any other gasoline retailer won't open a store along 75 corridor into downtown. It continues to be the most underserved stretch of highway in the city limits. 10+ miles with no convenient access to fuel. Geebus, someone loan me the money and I'll go do it myself and pay you back the entire amount in what....a month? maybe two? I still can't get that 50,000 average daily traffic count out of my head.
Define "convenient" and where this supposed desert area is. I drive that stretch all the time, and it's certainly not 10 miles with no gas stations.
Is less than a quarter-mile from an off-ramp too far to be labeled convenient?
Quote from: rwarn17588 on June 10, 2010, 07:01:05 AM
Is less than a quarter-mile from an off-ramp too far to be labeled convenient?
Yes. Unless there is a sign at least 100 ft high visible from 2 miles and the station is directly at the end or beginning of an entrance/exit ramp, it is inconvenient.
;D
Almost forgot, the price had better be the lowest in town too.
Quote from: bacjz00 on June 09, 2010, 11:03:01 PM
"...but I suppose they know their own demands better than I."
I don't think anyone really knows what QT is thinking. I can't figure out why they or any other gasoline retailer won't open a store along 75 corridor into downtown. It continues to be the most underserved stretch of highway in the city limits. 10+ miles with no convenient access to fuel. Geebus, someone loan me the money and I'll go do it myself and pay you back the entire amount in what....a month? maybe two? I still can't get that 50,000 average daily traffic count out of my head.
Quik Trip has a new store going in at 121st on 75 in front of the new Glenpool Super Wal-Mart, and another new store two miles off 75 on the Creek turnpike at Peoria/Elm in Jenks (at about 102nd) and they have a current stores at 51st on 75 and 141st on 75 and another on 71st two miles from the highway again at about where Peoria would be if it went through.
Quote from: swake on June 10, 2010, 08:08:16 AM
Quik Trip has a new store going in at 121st on 75 in front of the new Glenpool Super Wal-Mart, and another new store two miles off 75 on the Creek turnpike at Peoria/Elm in Jenks (at about 102nd) and they have a current stores at 51st on 75 and 141st on 75 and another on 71st two miles from the highway again at about where Peoria would be if it went through.
No one would know how to get to the 51st & Union location just driving through on 75 unless they actually know the neighborhood. I don't think US75 even mentions access to Union on the signs, just I-44 Westbound. I'm sure a location adjacent to Tulsa Hills will eventually make sense at 71st or 81st as the area gains more retail attractions and new homes. The stretch from 41st northward to the bridge is both sparsely populated and awkwardly positioned for putting in a store directly off the highway. It is all refinery/storage tanks, railroads, utilities, intersecting highways, and parallel roads (SW Blvd) - A real clusterf--k if you ask me. Plus the store at 33rd W. Ave & Southwest Blvd. is servicing the areas locals.
Quote from: bacjz00 on June 09, 2010, 11:03:01 PM
"...but I suppose they know their own demands better than I."
I don't think anyone really knows what QT is thinking. I can't figure out why they or any other gasoline retailer won't open a store along 75 corridor into downtown. It continues to be the most underserved stretch of highway in the city limits. 10+ miles with no convenient access to fuel. Geebus, someone loan me the money and I'll go do it myself and pay you back the entire amount in what....a month? maybe two? I still can't get that 50,000 average daily traffic count out of my head.
QT has supposedly bought land surrounding the Sinclair station at 41st & Union. There was an accident there two years ago which resulted in an explosion & fire. My understanding is QT had negotiated with the owners to buy that plot but the owners decided to repair the station and reopen rather than sell out. QT needs that new spot. Their 51st & Union location is always over-packed
Quote from: Conan71 on June 10, 2010, 08:25:09 AM
QT has supposedly bought land surrounding the Sinclair station at 41st & Union. There was an accident there two years ago which resulted in an explosion & fire. My understanding is QT had negotiated with the owners to buy that plot but the owners decided to repair the station and reopen rather than sell out. QT needs that new spot. Their 51st & Union location is always over-packed
Plus, IIRC, they're one of the last QT's to have the 'inline' gas pumps. By that I mean that they don't have the system of multi-island, two pumps per island layout at that store. It's the same at the 61st/Mingo store, and the one by TU on 11th.
Quote from: YoungTulsan on June 09, 2010, 06:29:32 PM
That was a QT and it was there until a few years ago. I'm pretty sure the new location at 96th & Delaware being built is when they shut that one down. Although that is a pretty far distance for QT standards. 81st & Lewis is kind of a QuikTrip dry spot, but I suppose they know their own demands better than I.
Thanks, that verifies something I was looking for.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 10, 2010, 08:25:09 AM
QT has supposedly bought land surrounding the Sinclair station at 41st & Union. There was an accident there two years ago which resulted in an explosion & fire. My understanding is QT had negotiated with the owners to buy that plot but the owners decided to repair the station and reopen rather than sell out. QT needs that new spot. Their 51st & Union location is always over-packed
IIRC there really isn't much available as commercial in that stretch from 51st to 41st on Union. The 51st area is commercial on both sides for a couple of blocks, but then it seems to me once you get to the downhill run to 41st it's almost all residential and then Reed Park and the old elementary school at 41st, and from there to SW Blvd is residential on the west and the east side just narrows down.
QuoteSpeaking of QuikTrip's I was trying to find where a friend of mine lived in 1994 that was off of 81st and Yorktown. Was there a QuikTrip or was it a Git-N-Go that was on the southwest corner of 81st and Yorktown across from the WalMart?
QuoteThat was a QT and it was there until a few years ago. I'm pretty sure the new location at 96th & Delaware being built is when they shut that one down. Although that is a pretty far distance for QT standards. 81st & Lewis is kind of a QuikTrip dry spot, but I suppose they know their own demands better than I.
Speaking of QT locations, wasn't the building on the northeast corner of 91st and Delaware a QT years ago? It's now Pepper's. Seems like QT has a little of the Wal Mart mentality. Close a store and build a bigger one down the street. The strip mall that was built out of that at 81st and Yorktown is just now starting to get something in it. Sat empty for a while.
Quote from: dbacks fan on June 10, 2010, 10:30:14 AM
IIRC there really isn't much available as commercial in that stretch from 51st to 41st on Union. The 51st area is commercial on both sides for a couple of blocks, but then it seems to me once you get to the downhill run to 41st it's almost all residential and then Reed Park and the old elementary school at 41st, and from there to SW Blvd is residential on the west and the east side just narrows down.
There's no interchange with 51st on Hwy 75 due to the I-44 interchange.
There's ample room on all four sides of the 41st interchange. There's two abandoned-looking houses on the SE corner, Toedt's Gardens has been abandoned for a few years now on the NE corner (I've been told the Toedts own the two houses on the south), there's a house presently located on the SW corner then a former car lot to the west of that, and Don and Mary have their Sinclair convenience store on the NW corner of 41st & Union. There used to be a smaller frame house between the Sinclair and 75 as well as a house or two north of the station. Those were torn down. That's the land supposedly owned now by QT. I would guess QT will just have to sit and spin until they can make the owners of the Sinclair change their mind on selling out. Either that or get in touch with the Toedts.
All four corners of the 41st interchange are ripe for commercial construction and I don't think you'd have too much trouble with getting any zoning changes needed.
Quote from: bmuscotty on June 10, 2010, 11:51:28 AM
Speaking of QT locations, wasn't the building on the northeast corner of 91st and Delaware a QT years ago? It's now Pepper's. Seems like QT has a little of the Wal Mart mentality. Close a store and build a bigger one down the street. The strip mall that was built out of that at 81st and Yorktown is just now starting to get something in it. Sat empty for a while.
Yep, that's correct. There was a QT in the Walnut Creek II shopping center on the west side of Harvard at 81st. It was the end cap building closest to the Shell station which is on the corner. There also used to be one in Utica Square, I think it's a Chico's fashion store now, just to the east of Olive Garden. Those were two or four pump stores.
Thanks. I thought it was. Now maybe a bit of trivia. Wasn't the first QT in Tulsa (or the first one ever) on Peoria just south of I-44 on the west side of the street? Its now a pawn shop.
You are correct on the location, not sure what the current use of it is.
This is reputed to be QT #1. Note the signage: "Open 7 to 11":
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZRrqKbqqvtg/Smh1qknYqoI/AAAAAAAABxo/ZydLqtrPwus/s320/D4543+quick+trip+1966.jpg)
Quote from: Conan71 on June 10, 2010, 05:14:52 PM
You are correct on the location, not sure what the current use of it is.
This is reputed to be QT #1. Note the signage: "Open 7 to 11":
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZRrqKbqqvtg/Smh1qknYqoI/AAAAAAAABxo/ZydLqtrPwus/s320/D4543+quick+trip+1966.jpg)
As I remember Git-N-Go, QT, UtoteM and 7-11 all had the same hours back then.
"UtokeM"
Quote from: Conan71 on June 10, 2010, 06:25:04 PM
"UtokeM"
U
ripM
The store on 11th Street near TU had a reputation for having higher prices than their other locations to take advantage of the TU students.
Is the new QT at 15th & Denver open? It was hard to tell but it looked like the old store had its windows covered.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 10, 2010, 02:18:37 PM
Yep, that's correct. There was a QT in the Walnut Creek II shopping center on the west side of Harvard at 81st. It was the end cap building closest to the Shell station which is on the corner. There also used to be one in Utica Square, I think it's a Chico's fashion store now, just to the east of Olive Garden. Those were two or four pump stores.
Ahhhh... QT 21.
Saturday Night, 1988. It was the place to find out where the good parties were.
Quote from: Kenosha on June 17, 2010, 09:09:34 AM
Ahhhh... QT 21.
Saturday Night, 1988. It was the place to find out where the good parties were.
Same was true in 1979-81.
Quote from: Markk on June 17, 2010, 09:38:27 AM
Same was true in 1979-81.
Yep before school every morning and Friday & Saturday nights. My run was fall '81 through the summer of '84.
Anyone remember G-g-g-g-g-g-Gerald the clerk? Black guy, Jerry curls, stuttered, funnier than smile. He was one of QT's best ever.
How about being chased by "The Squirrel"?
Quote from: hello on June 17, 2010, 08:15:46 AM
Is the new QT at 15th & Denver open? It was hard to tell but it looked like the old store had its windows covered.
It is open, or so I've heard. Look forward to giving it a try tonight.
It was open this morning when I went in for breakfast - but no gas until mid-July. My only complaint is that QuikTrip stores are so standardized, figuring out where everything was in an entirely new design took a bit longer than i anticipated. ;D I think my favorite part will be the multiple entrances. Felt less crowded for sure - but that could be due to no gas being sold.
Just came across this article and thought I would toss it out here
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=31728
I am in Kansas twice a week and I always stop at QT! I love them,all we have here in OKC is 7-11 or OnCue!There is such a good selection of pop,beer and munchies at QT vs. 7-11,its almost a joke comparing the two!
Quote from: Conan71 on June 17, 2010, 10:51:13 AM
Yep before school every morning and Friday & Saturday nights. My run was fall '81 through the summer of '84.
Anyone remember G-g-g-g-g-g-Gerald the clerk? Black guy, Jerry curls, stuttered, funnier than smile. He was one of QT's best ever.
How about being chased by "The Squirrel"?
I hit that a little later. . .86. Still the place to start your Friday night. Almost never ID'd for beer. Sometimes when they did, they didn't actually READ your ID. ;).
I drive by that spot all the time and can't believe how small QTs used to be.
Read Cadieux's book, From Lucky to Smart.
Great company there, something for Tulsa to be proud of.
I think they are trying markets on the west coast now. Wouldn't surprise me if someday they were the standard convenience store of the Western Hemisphere.
I love how what began as a gentlemans agreement between Chester and whomever the f--- runs convenience stores in OKC was originally done out of respect, yet for the last couple of decades has made Tulsa 1000x as awesome as the poo-hole down the pike. :D
Quote from: Hawkins on August 17, 2010, 10:05:01 PM
I think they are trying markets on the west coast now. Wouldn't surprise me if someday they were the standard convenience store of the Western Hemisphere.
It ought to be.
Tulsa will become the Bentonville of tomorrow. ;)
Quote from: DolfanBob on August 18, 2010, 08:52:08 AM
Tulsa will become the Bentonville of tomorrow. ;)
Then everyone will blame them for putting the "Mom & Pops" convenience stores, bakeries, hot dog stands, and coffee shops out of business.
Quote from: Gaspar on August 18, 2010, 08:55:32 AM
Then everyone will blame them for putting the "Mom & Pops" convenience stores, bakeries, hot dog stands, and coffee shops out of business.
The big difference being that QuikTrip is not an unpleasant place to purchase things and actually pays its employees well.
Quote from: Hawkins on August 17, 2010, 10:05:01 PM
Read Cadieux's book, From Lucky to Smart.
Great company there, something for Tulsa to be proud of.
I think they are trying markets on the west coast now. Wouldn't surprise me if someday they were the standard convenience store of the Western Hemisphere.
I agree that QuikTrip is great. I'm a frequent customer and I always go out of my way to stop there.
But there's no way QT is better than Sheetz. QT is a gas station that offers food, while Sheetz is more like a restaurant in a gas station. You go to the counter and order subs, burgers, fries, salads, etc, all made to order.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SSdh-yTHzQ
Side note, I've already complained to QT, but just in case any QT bigwigs read this: Is midnight on a weekend night really the best time to clean your ice cream machines? Really? You don't think you're missing out on sales by cleaning them at midnight on a weekend rather than at 4am or something, after the bars are closed and most people are home? I'm one for three in getting ice cream at the new QT because they insist on cleaning the machines at midnight.
Quote from: YoungTulsan on August 18, 2010, 03:12:42 AM
I love how what began as a gentlemans agreement between Chester and whomever the f--- runs convenience stores in OKC was originally done out of respect, yet for the last couple of decades has made Tulsa 1000x as awesome as the poo-hole down the pike. :D
^^ LOL! Nice One!
Coming soon on another corner near you???
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39273933/
QuoteWal-Mart is looking to open stores that are similar to the formats in Mexico, Central America, and Latin America.
Super-Wal-Mercado?
Coke in little glass bottles with real sugar?
Hate to bump an old topic, but it appears that the test passed: new Gen3 QT going in at 11th and Sheridan. They appear to be about halfway complete (on the NW corner where that old bar used to be).
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5308/5639464744_566bf21fa9_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/oilerfan/5639464744/)
I seldom think of QT as urban renewal, but that's a major accomplishment for that intersection.
Quote from: bmuscotty on September 24, 2010, 01:29:25 PM
Coming soon on another corner near you???
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39273933/
Next time anyone is in Fayetteville, check out the Wal-Mart on Campus, which is on the street-level of a parking garage between a handfull of other retail stores. http://nwahomepage.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=210496 (http://nwahomepage.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=210496) Wal-Mart is investing millions, if not billions into the urban storefront prototype. Even the posterchild of big box is embracing the need for an urban storefront. Wal-Mart's whole idea is based on the notion that urban consumers lack access to traditional grocery stores, and are limited to convenience stores for many grocery needs.
Let's assume that Wal-Mart's market research is accurate. Given the resources WM has access to, I think that's a fair assumption. Couldn't QuikTrip borrow this idea and make a conscious effort to make an urban footprint in the 10 or so markets it serves? Maybe they are already doing this. Wal-Mart's whole strategy really rests on the perception that urban consumers are these poor little souls doing all their grocery shopping at grungy urban convenience stores with bars on the windows and obscenities on the bathroom stalls. But QuikTrip really debunks the grungy convenience store myth by the nature of QT's quality control and employee loyalty. I think QT could really give WM a run for its money in the urban environment. I don't think even WM's surperior economy of scale will be more critical in the urban environment than location, location, location. So if I'm a QuikTrip executive, I'm thinking it's time to buy some real estate (which is cheap right now anyway).
Quote from: perspicuity85 on April 25, 2011, 11:16:51 PM
Next time anyone is in Fayetteville, check out the Wal-Mart on Campus, which is on the street-level of a parking garage between a handfull of other retail stores. http://nwahomepage.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=210496 (http://nwahomepage.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=210496) Wal-Mart is investing millions, if not billions into the urban storefront prototype. Even the posterchild of big box is embracing the need for an urban storefront. Wal-Mart's whole idea is based on the notion that urban consumers lack access to traditional grocery stores, and are limited to convenience stores for many grocery needs.
Let's assume that Wal-Mart's market research is accurate. Given the resources WM has access to, I think that's a fair assumption. Couldn't QuikTrip borrow this idea and make a conscious effort to make an urban footprint in the 10 or so markets it serves? Maybe they are already doing this. Wal-Mart's whole strategy really rests on the perception that urban consumers are these poor little souls doing all their grocery shopping at grungy urban convenience stores with bars on the windows and obscenities on the bathroom stalls. But QuikTrip really debunks the grungy convenience store myth by the nature of QT's quality control and employee loyalty. I think QT could really give WM a run for its money in the urban environment. I don't think even WM's surperior economy of scale will be more critical in the urban environment than location, location, location. So if I'm a QuikTrip executive, I'm thinking it's time to buy some real estate (which is cheap right now anyway).
You forget one component..you mention 'employee loyalty', but QTs success is driven by and large by their CUSTOMER loyalty. If Walmart's model succeeds in that aspect... and they'll need to overcome the stereotype their employees currently have of trailer-trash near minimum wage workers...then QT will have a challenger in the C-store market.
But WalMart currently suffers from 'consumer apathy'. They go to their stores, but they don't particularly praise the effort of the company or their employees. With QT, it's just the opposite.
Keep in mind I'm speaking of their retail/neighborhood market stores. I haven't seen this WM on Campus store you speak of yet.
I have a friend of mine who constantly bemoans the fact he moved from the Tulsa metro to Portland OR..don't get me wrong, he likes Portland, but he says the one thing that keeps making him want to move back is QT.
But QT does need to think about what they'll do once Tulsa grows up and starts having people who live downtown. Most won't want to make the trek to 15th and Denver when they live at 2nd & Detroit. They'll need something closer.
Quote from: Hoss on April 25, 2011, 11:30:23 PM
But QT does need to think about what they'll do once Tulsa grows up and starts having people who live downtown. Most won't want to make the trek to 15th and Denver when they live at 2nd & Detroit. They'll need something closer.
Or once they realize they need to move into more walkable markets to keep sales from going flat and be able to carry more items.
Maybe it's just wishful thinking on our part that they are going to eventually become what Safeway was in the 1950's with that walkable neighborhood market feel. Only problem is, they seem to be dialed into everything Safeway wasn't in the '50's: gasoline, pre-mixed fountain drinks over ice, and a mecca for prepared foods.
15 years ago, I believe it was said to me by one of the QT Top 3, while running through the initial stages of the Hotzi program, that you wouldn't be seeing a "rotisserie" at any point in a QT. However, that seems to have been shot to hell, for the most part. So I am pretty sure anything is possible. Chet took over and has his own direction with the company, which isn't really a bad thing.
Quote from: Hoss on April 20, 2011, 08:36:39 PM
Hate to bump an old topic, but it appears that the test passed: new Gen3 QT going in at 11th and Sheridan. They appear to be about halfway complete (on the NW corner where that old bar used to be).
If they do as good a job on the shielded outdoor lighting as they did on 21st at both Memorial and Harvard, that would be a good trend to continue.
New Gen III store coming to Aspen (145th E. Ave.) and Albany (61st Street) in Broken Arrow and will replace the smaller store at Aspen and the Broken Arrow Expressway. This will be nice on that corner.
Quote from: EricGarcia on April 26, 2011, 08:14:39 PM
New Gen III store coming to Aspen (145th E. Ave.) and Albany (61st Street) in Broken Arrow and will replace the smaller store at Aspen and the Broken Arrow Expressway. This will be nice on that corner.
Guess that's a resounding 'yes' to the question of will the Type3 be successful. As if there were really any doubt?
Quote from: EricGarcia on April 26, 2011, 08:14:39 PM
New Gen III store coming to Aspen (145th E. Ave.) and Albany (61st Street) in Broken Arrow and will replace the smaller store at Aspen and the Broken Arrow Expressway. This will be nice on that corner.
Fantastic. I work right by this QT and I cant stand getting in and out of this store. It has been a bad design since day one.
Are they going to tear down the old Farmers claim building next to the Hotel ?
There is a zoning change sign out front of that building.
Quote from: EricGarcia on April 26, 2011, 08:14:39 PM
New Gen III store coming to Aspen (145th E. Ave.) and Albany (61st Street) in Broken Arrow and will replace the smaller store at Aspen and the Broken Arrow Expressway. This will be nice on that corner.
Eric, since you seem to have some good info, do you know of QT's plans in the Tulsa Hills area?
I know they are building a Quiktrip at 71st and 75 across the entrance from Lowes. It will be a type III store. They also have an option on land at 81st and 75, but wont move forward on that project until traffic counts increase.
Quote from: Who Cares on April 27, 2011, 01:43:21 PM
I know they are building a Quiktrip at 71st and 75 across the entrance from Lowes. It will be a type III store. They also have an option on land at 81st and 75, but wont move forward on that project until traffic counts increase.
wow, I was just over there on Saturday and didn't even notice that...sheesh.
Word is, QT bought property on the NE corner of 41st & Union a few years ago. The property surrounds the Sinclair station on two sides. When they had their fire in 2008, QT attempted to buy their parcel, but apparently weren't willing to pay what the owner wanted. Now that the old Toedt's Gardens compound is officially up on the market, I'm wondering if QT might make a run at that. They need to do something about the obsolete design of their 51st & Union store. They don't have room to move the pumps perpendicular to the store and the lot space is too small to do that or do a type 3 overhaul.
I wouldn't be overly crazy about the additional traffic on West 41st if they built right off 75, but it would be easier to get in and out of than the store up at 51st.
Quote from: Hoss on April 27, 2011, 02:32:41 PM
wow, I was just over there on Saturday and didn't even notice that...sheesh.
Well they have not started construction yet. They purchased the land a few months back, and shortly after filed a plan with TMAPC. Construction should start soon. Here is a link from the Journal Record: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20110314/ai_n57113534/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20110314/ai_n57113534/)
Dolfan,
That was State Farm claim center for many years.
Looks like they are still working on the zoning. Should be pretty easy. Broken Arrow will lie down for anyone with a few bucks in their pocket. It will be a good thing for that corner. That existing one is a mess - from traffic, not the store. Hopefully they will bulldoze it and make it a park.
Glad to hear that QT has plans in the Tulsa Hills area finally...frankly I would be a little surprised if they developed at both ends of the shopping center, even if the traffic counts do increase around 81st. Although once "The Walk" goes in south of 81st and those bigger stores are built on the south end, who knows?
Still coming along nicely (11th/Sheridan)
(https://photos-1.dropbox.com/i/xl/HLPl1s77B6sesKqhRrcCuJWd8-WeFvrWbfHVPBYyKYs/26442998/1305424800/46afe30)
And one thing I've noticed: if you want your streets fixed....lobby to have a QT built nearby. They have the roads widened and/or patched/resurfaced for a good ways from the frontages to their properties.
I wish they would do something with the store at 151st and Memorial. That thing is a nightmare to get in and out of most of the time. Always, always cram packed full of people.
Also wish they would do something around 121st and Memorial, especially now that ground has been broken for apartments there.
Of course my big dream is a grocery store for that 121st area but apparently Reasor's is too scared of Wal-Mart to do anything there. Hell do is at 151st Reasor's. Just give us folks in Bixby a real grocery store!!!
Sorry for going OT...but damn!
Quote from: Ibanez on May 14, 2011, 10:45:26 AM
Also wish they would do something around 121st and Memorial, especially now that ground has been broken for apartments there.
Just what we need, more traffic on Memorial and more buildings in the flood plane.
Well they must have started tearing down the old State Farm building Monday, Because I just noticed that it is gone. They are cleaning up the last of the rubble.
We should have our next gen QT pretty soon.
Where's this at, Dolfan?
Keeping on topic sort of (and I would like to know where Dolfan is talking about), here's the progress on the 11th/Sheridan store, as of 7/23
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26442998/Photos/2011-07-23_15-35-59_412.jpg)
I'm on 11th (obviously) on the east side of the intersection travelling west.
A red square in a box is a nice start...it's really coming along.
Quote from: carltonplace on July 27, 2011, 09:31:43 AM
A red square in a box is a nice start...it's really coming along.
I can see it just fine.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 27, 2011, 09:00:12 AM
Where's this at, Dolfan?
N.W. Corner of 61st and 145th E Av. Albany and Aspen for you B.A. people.
Quote from: carltonplace on July 27, 2011, 09:31:43 AM
A red square in a box is a nice start...it's really coming along.
Interesting. I get a red X in a white box here at work. That often happens but I can usually see the pictures at home.
They used the high-glare "Scootsdale" lights under the awning, which isnt code (1303c).
That actually surprises me because the trend the last few QT's have been following was to use low-glare "Richmond" lights for the canopy (like they did at 15th & harvard and 21st and Memorial).
http://www.lsi-industries.com/products/lighting-solutions/petro/richmond.aspx
Quote from: patric on July 27, 2011, 02:44:56 PM
They used the high-glare "Scootsdale" lights under the awning, which isnt code (1303c).
That actually surprises me because the trend the last few QT's have been following was to use low-glare "Richmond" lights for the canopy (like they did at 15th & harvard and 21st and Memorial).
http://www.lsi-industries.com/products/lighting-solutions/petro/richmond.aspx
The new location at Highway 75 & Highway 20 (146th St. N.) between Skiatook and Collinsville uses recessed, flat-lens LED lights in the canopy. It's a beautiful thing to behold. You can actually see clearly around you, as you pull up there's no glare, and the store isn't so over-lit that there's a dome of light pollution floating above it visible for miles. It's a regular-style QT, which I think it much better than the Type 3 stores.
Quote from: dsjeffries on July 27, 2011, 09:47:31 PM
The new location at Highway 75 & Highway 20 (146th St. N.) between Skiatook and Collinsville uses recessed, flat-lens LED lights in the canopy. It's a beautiful thing to behold. You can actually see clearly around you, as you pull up there's no glare, and the store isn't so over-lit that there's a dome of light pollution floating above it visible for miles. It's a regular-style QT, which I think it much better than the Type 3 stores.
To each their own. I love the Gen3 stores. The parking is laid out much smarter, and you don't feel like you're wading through people during rush hour to get in and out. I hope they have a boatload of them by years' end.
Quote from: Hoss on July 27, 2011, 10:00:31 PM
To each their own. I love the Gen3 stores. The parking is laid out much smarter, and you don't feel like you're wading through people during rush hour to get in and out. I hope they have a boatload of them by years' end.
We can only wonder why the better design stores have the worse design lighting. Seems like it would be easy to remedy in the planning stages.
Quote from: patric on July 27, 2011, 11:15:13 PM
We can only wonder why the better design stores have the worse design lighting. Seems like it would be easy to remedy in the planning stages.
Now that part I would agree with.
Quote from: patric on July 27, 2011, 02:44:56 PM
They used the high-glare "Scootsdale" lights under the awning, which isnt code (1303c).
That actually surprises me because the trend the last few QT's have been following was to use low-glare "Richmond" lights for the canopy (like they did at 15th & harvard and 21st and Memorial).
http://www.lsi-industries.com/products/lighting-solutions/petro/richmond.aspx
Not quite sure what you mean by "Scootsdale" but here are a couple of stories about crime stats and c-stores done by ASU
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2011/07/10/20110710asu-study-circle-k-police-calls.html (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2011/07/10/20110710asu-study-circle-k-police-calls.html)
and actually here is a link to several stories about crime stats and things suggested and proposed by various agencies in the Phoenix metro area, and I know that a lot of it has to do with the lighting at the stores.
http://www.azcentral.com/results.php?catId=&aff=1100&searchkeyword=&searchcategory=*&cx=015840973018584549539%3A4mugrvjtm6k&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=Convinience+store+crime+study&address=#946 (http://www.azcentral.com/results.php?catId=&aff=1100&searchkeyword=&searchcategory=*&cx=015840973018584549539%3A4mugrvjtm6k&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=Convinience+store+crime+study&address=#946)
QT when they moved into the Phoenix area did two things. First was the gave everyone a c-store that they had never seen before in quality professionalism and safety. Second they set the bar so high that Circle K had to start remodeling their stores, and their new stores tried to copy QT. Circle K even went so far as to in the last two or three years get their employees to say "Hello" as people walk in the store, and to try upselling at the register. QT is now the standard for c-stores.
So you may complain about the lighting choices, but when cities are looking to them as a standard bearer for safety and security, you might just have to accept what they use for lighting that is not what you want for the safety of the customers and employees.
Quote from: dbacks fan on July 27, 2011, 11:54:22 PM
Not quite sure what you mean by "Scootsdale" but here are a couple of stories about crime stats and c-stores done by ASU
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2011/07/10/20110710asu-study-circle-k-police-calls.html (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2011/07/10/20110710asu-study-circle-k-police-calls.html)
and actually here is a link to several stories about crime stats and things suggested and proposed by various agencies in the Phoenix metro area, and I know that a lot of it has to do with the lighting at the stores.
http://www.azcentral.com/results.php?catId=&aff=1100&searchkeyword=&searchcategory=*&cx=015840973018584549539%3A4mugrvjtm6k&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=Convinience+store+crime+study&address=#946 (http://www.azcentral.com/results.php?catId=&aff=1100&searchkeyword=&searchcategory=*&cx=015840973018584549539%3A4mugrvjtm6k&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=Convinience+store+crime+study&address=#946)
QT when they moved into the Phoenix area did two things. First was the gave everyone a c-store that they had never seen before in quality professionalism and safety. Second they set the bar so high that Circle K had to start remodeling their stores, and their new stores tried to copy QT. Circle K even went so far as to in the last two or three years get their employees to say "Hello" as people walk in the store, and to try upselling at the register. QT is now the standard for c-stores.
So you may complain about the lighting choices, but when cities are looking to them as a standard bearer for safety and security, you might just have to accept what they use for lighting that is not what you want for the safety of the customers and employees.
Alot of c-stores in the past (Tulsa's Git N Go and U-Tote-Em come to mind) didn't worry much about employee safety. Hell, even Kum n Go doesn't. QT has a policy that every store must have a minimum of two employees working in it regardless of shift time. My nephew worked for K&G briefly, but one night they wanted him to worked solo, it made him quite nervous so he quit. Convenience stores with just one employee on the premises, IMO, are armed robberies just waiting to happen.
Quote from: Hoss on July 28, 2011, 12:06:48 AM
Alot of c-stores in the past (Tulsa's Git N Go and U-Tote-Em come to mind) didn't worry much about employee safety. Hell, even Kum n Go doesn't. QT has a policy that every store must have a minimum of two employees working in it regardless of shift time. My nephew worked for K&G briefly, but one night they wanted him to worked solo, it made him quite nervous so he quit. Convenience stores with just one employee on the premises, IMO, are armed robberies just waiting to happen.
not true. They have several locations where they only have one overnight person. They always carry a buzzer on them that immediately calls in to either IS or police, but they dont always have two people working every store 24/7. My wife used to work in the stores, and now works in corporate. She worked overnights by herself many nights. Policy hasnt changed.
Quote from: dbacks fan on July 27, 2011, 11:54:22 PM
So you may complain about the lighting choices, but when cities are looking to them as a standard bearer for safety and security, you might just have to accept what they use for lighting that is not what you want for the safety of the customers and employees.
No, we should not have to just accept someone's marketing disguised as "safety".
The term "Moth Effect Marketing" was coined to describe the petroleum marketing industry's intentions of using glare and sheer brightness to draw customers. A
secondary hope was that the increased brightness would do something to improve safety, but in reality, compromising your vision with glare reduces safety.
Municipalities responded by requiring less glare and trespass-prone lighting practices (this time with actual safety in mind) and the lighting manufacturers offered complying fixtures (in addition to the junk).
They essentially cost the same, are installed the same way and sometimes even draw less power, so it just makes sense for a governing body to favor lighting that actually improves safety over those that only improve gas sales.
Sorry for the drift, but I need to clear up one bit of confusion before we get back.
This is a "Scottsdale" fixture:
(http://www.lsi-industries.com/images/products/petro/scottsdale_recessed-lg.jpg)
and this is the low-glare, shielded substitute from the same manufacturer:
(http://www.lsi-industries.com/images/products/petro/richmond-lg.jpg)
Quote from: patric on August 04, 2011, 11:01:33 AM
No, we should not have to just accept someone's marketing disguised as "safety".
The term "Moth Effect Marketing" was coined to describe the petroleum marketing industry's intentions of using glare and sheer brightness to draw customers. A secondary hope was that the increased brightness would do something to improve safety, but in reality, compromising your vision with glare reduces safety.
Municipalities responded by requiring less glare and trespass-prone lighting practices (this time with actual safety in mind) and the lighting manufacturers offered complying fixtures (in addition to the junk).
They essentially cost the same, are installed the same way and sometimes even draw less power, so it just makes sense for a governing body to favor lighting that actually improves safety over those that only improve gas sales.
Sorry for the drift, but I need to clear up one bit of confusion before we get back.
This is a "Scottsdale" fixture:
(http://www.lsi-industries.com/images/products/petro/scottsdale_recessed-lg.jpg)
and this is the low-glare, shielded substitute from the same manufacturer:
(http://www.lsi-industries.com/images/products/petro/richmond-lg.jpg)
Thanks for the clarification patric. Back to the regular scheduled topic.
I'm assuming the new Tulsa Hills QuikTrip zoning got approved by TMAPC last week? Can't wait for construction to begin on that one. Didn't I read that it's going to be a Type 3 as well?
Quote from: bacjz00 on August 08, 2011, 09:05:57 AM
I'm assuming the new Tulsa Hills QuikTrip zoning got approved by TMAPC last week? Can't wait for construction to begin on that one. Didn't I read that it's going to be a Type 3 as well?
Where at? the area needs something other than the walmart gas station that is being built in there.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 08, 2011, 12:56:31 PM
Where at? the area needs something other than the walmart gas station that is being built in there.
North side of 71st Street directly across from Lowe's @ Tulsa Hills.
Northeast corner of 71st & Olympia?
Quote from: rdj on August 08, 2011, 03:42:52 PM
Northeast corner of 71st & Olympia?
It will sit directly north of the intersection of Tulsa Hills Dr. & 71st St. Tulsa Hills Dr. is the stoplight further east of the light at Olympia.
I'm assuming that QuikTrip will extend Tulsa Hills Dr. north and provide access into the QT via the traffic signal already located there. The tract that is at the NE corner of 71st & Olympia is not included in the QT development, at least based on my understanding
I believe it is stormwater retention on both side of olympia, north of 71st. Tulsa Hills drive is a better place, land-wise. I like the fact it will have a light since it seems most QT's are hard to get into, or hard to get out once you're in.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 10, 2011, 08:59:17 AM
I believe it is stormwater retention on both side of olympia, north of 71st. Tulsa Hills drive is a better place, land-wise. I like the fact it will have a light since it seems most QT's are hard to get into, or hard to get out once you're in.
Agreed. This thing will be perfectly situated to accomodate morning commuters.
If they can get the shopping center built at 81st & Olympia with the grocery store and movie theater, and now they will have a Gen 3 QT at 71st, I see that area continuing to gain in popularity. I know a couple that lives in one of the newer neighborhoods near 81st & Elwood who moved there from Owasso because the schools were good (Jenks), it was a 15 min. drive into downtown on 75, lots of shopping options at Tulsa Hills, and right next to Turkey Mtn and river trails. The only things they lacked were a grocery store and QT.
I wouldn't be surprised to see new neighborhoods built on both sides of 71st from Elwood to Olympia, and a new Jenks "Northwest" elementary school built nearby.
Quote from: SXSW on August 21, 2011, 11:43:39 AM
If they can get the shopping center built at 81st & Olympia with the grocery store and movie theater, and now they will have a Gen 3 QT at 71st, I see that area continuing to gain in popularity. I know a couple that lives in one of the newer neighborhoods near 81st & Elwood who moved there from Owasso because the schools were good (Jenks), it was a 15 min. drive into downtown on 75, lots of shopping options at Tulsa Hills, and right next to Turkey Mtn and river trails. The only things they lacked were a grocery store and QT.
I wouldn't be surprised to see new neighborhoods built on both sides of 71st from Elwood to Olympia, and a new Jenks "Northwest" elementary school built nearby.
And what's good about that is a lot of those new houses and neighborhoods would be built "in" Tulsa. So, Tulsa gains residents.
Quote from: SXSW on August 21, 2011, 11:43:39 AM
I know a couple that lives in one of the newer neighborhoods near 81st & Elwood who moved there from Owasso ...
I hope they are aware there is a busy airport nearby.
Quote from: Red Arrow on August 21, 2011, 12:20:10 PM
I hope they are aware there is a busy airport nearby.
Does it matter?
If you're living next to an airport and can be oblivious to the fact.. it's probably not an issue.
The Cesnas Jones/Riverside services don't exactly make the same amount of noise as say the 737s @ TIA
Quote from: BKDotCom on August 21, 2011, 12:31:21 PM
Does it matter?
If you're living next to an airport and can be oblivious to the fact.. it's probably not an issue.
The Cesnas Jones/Riverside services don't exactly make the same amount of noise as say the 737s @ TIA
The 737s have a higher takeoff profile than a 172 though. 172s are plenty loud 3 miles away at 2000 MSL. There are other planes out at RVS that make a ton of noise. A lot of radial engine airplanes based out there.
Quote from: BKDotCom on August 21, 2011, 12:31:21 PM
Does it matter?
If you're living next to an airport and can be oblivious to the fact.. it's probably not an issue.
The Cesnas Jones/Riverside services don't exactly make the same amount of noise as say the 737s @ TIA
Sooner or later they and their neighbors will get tired of even the small Cessnas and try to get the airport shut down. There's a lot of fun to watch airplanes out there as Hoss mentioned and a lot of them aren't so quiet.
I once asked them if the planes bothered them. They said they don't hear them very often. I see them coming in over the 71st bridge and east of Elwood. Maybe it's worse there, where there aren't any houses or any planned.
Quote from: SXSW on August 21, 2011, 02:20:20 PM
I once asked them if the planes bothered them. They said they don't hear them very often. I see them coming in over the 71st bridge and east of Elwood. Maybe it's worse there, where there aren't any houses or any planned.
They're entering downwind there, and likely at a higher altitude. The one's that will be more affected are those on climbout or on final, which is almost always from the north or south. If it's from the north, not so much, as Turkey Mountain is a natural barrier to it, and to the south you have the turnpike and the golf course, which I see everytime I land to the north.
I did some touch-and-goes (crash-and-dash) today in my Cessna. Those houses are pretty much under the pattern for the 150/172 class but they don't make that much noise. The higher performance planes will be a bit wider in the pattern so the noise will be a bit farther away. Except when traffic requires otherwise, I am usually no farther west than US-75 and keep south of 71st St. Some people make the pattern a cross-country experience. When there are several planes in the pattern, close patterns are not feasible.
Quote from: Red Arrow on August 21, 2011, 07:23:37 PM
I did some touch-and-goes (crash-and-dash) today in my Cessna. Those houses are pretty much under the pattern for the 150/172 class but they don't make that much noise. The higher performance planes will be a bit wider in the pattern so the noise will be a bit farther away. Except when traffic requires otherwise, I am usually no farther west than US-75 and keep south of 71st St. Some people make the pattern a cross-country experience. When there are several planes in the pattern, close patterns are not feasible.
And Sunday evenings at RVS can definitely be pattern-busy. Especially since you in essence have three flight schools on the airport, and a smaller fourth.
Quote from: Hoss on August 21, 2011, 08:44:26 PM
And Sunday evenings at RVS can definitely be pattern-busy. Especially since you in essence have three flight schools on the airport, and a smaller fourth.
It's been really quiet lately. Way to hot out to spend much time waiting on the ground. I left the pilot's side window open most of the time. I was the only one in the pattern for most of the 0.7 hrs. I did get switched to 19L from 19R in the beginning (my hangar is in the NW Tees) and then back to 19R. I only had to extend downwind once to 71st St to let 2 departures go. The 150 slows down to 70 mph easily to spend time and not distance allowing departures. Not bad for a Sunday afternoon.
Quote from: Red Arrow on August 21, 2011, 09:30:01 PM
It's been really quiet lately. Way to hot out to spend much time waiting on the ground. I left the pilot's side window open most of the time. I was the only one in the pattern for most of the 0.7 hrs. I did get switched to 19L from 19R in the beginning (my hangar is in the NW Tees) and then back to 19R. I only had to extend downwind once to 71st St to let 2 departures go. The 150 slows down to 70 mph easily to spend time and not distance allowing departures. Not bad for a Sunday afternoon.
I'm a tad too large for the 150, and the 172 is sometimes a little cramped. But I can remember coming back in from the west one night right at dusk and marveling at the number of wing lights I could see in the pattern. It was awesome.
Riverside is a cool airport...I could see the area around it continuing to grow. Why anyone thinks someone would move near it expecting anything other than normal traffic and airplane noise is beyond me. I live somewhat close and have small planes coming and going overhead, it makes no difference to me. If I wanted to hear nothing but wind all day, I wouldn't live in the middle of town...I'd live in Owasso, surrounded by children of the corn.
I lived most of my life in Tulsa in the final approach pattern for TIA at 26th & Memorial from birth to the mid 80's, and then from 1991 to 1998 at Pine and Memorial, and the only thing that bothered me in the seven years at Pine & Memorial were the winter time touch and go's by the C-135's or KC-135's taking off going north on 35R. Growing up, we had everything from 707's, B-47's, B-52's, F100's and A-7/F-8, F-4, and F-15's so I guess that I became used to the noise issue. Where I lived in Phoenix was just south east of Deer Valley Airport, (DVA) which was home to three flight schools, Phoenix Police, MCSO Department, and three medical helicopter services. It was never a bother to me about the noise, other than what I said earlier. A military K/C-135 taking off is one of the worst.
Quote from: dbacks fan on August 22, 2011, 02:15:46 AM
I lived most of my life in Tulsa in the final approach pattern for TIA at 26th & Memorial from birth to the mid 80's, and then from 1991 to 1998 at Pine and Memorial, and the only thing that bothered me in the seven years at Pine & Memorial were the winter time touch and go's by the C-135's or KC-135's taking off going north on 35R. Growing up, we had everything from 707's, B-47's, B-52's, F100's and A-7/F-8, F-4, and F-15's so I guess that I became used to the noise issue. Where I lived in Phoenix was just south east of Deer Valley Airport, (DVA) which was home to three flight schools, Phoenix Police, MCSO Department, and three medical helicopter services. It was never a bother to me about the noise, other than what I said earlier. A military K/C-135 taking off is one of the worst.
Haha, that tells me how long ago it's been for you. I live near the traffic circle now, fairly close, but lived at 16th and Memorial for many years, right down finals for 36R (they renumbered the runways some years ago).
Oh how I remember from my youth Saturday morning ANG runs...
Seems like we all lived in the same part of town....
I remember stories about an airplane crash just south and west of the 21st Memorial area back in the late '50s. Didn't get there until couple years later, and always hoped it wouldn't happen again. The 707's were the loudest ones I remember - sounded like they were gonna land in your lap!
In high school, we used to go up to the airport during winter or in a rain storm to watch planes land and take off. Where the gates are now used to be outdoor roof with seating. Could sit out there and watch the planes through a light (or heavy) snow - it was magical!!
The plane crash was in 1957 and it was a B-47 that broke up in mid air and rained debris all over that area. My parents had just moved to that area from Santa Monica, my dad worked for Douglas then. The nose of the plane with the bombadier still in it land in a back yard between 26th court and 25th street between 75th and 77th east ave's. The house I grew up in was across the street. At the time of the crash my parents lived about three blocks south of that house. It was mid March.
That's the one. Sucked big time.
Quote13 Mar 1958
TB-47B
50-0013
19 BS
3520 CCTW
McConnell AFB, KS
Soen, Albert J.
KCRMF
5
over Tulsa, OK
http://okwreckchasing.org/database.htm (http://okwreckchasing.org/database.htm)
I was off by a year it was 1958
Quote from: dbacks fan on August 25, 2011, 12:50:18 PM
http://okwreckchasing.org/database.htm (http://okwreckchasing.org/database.htm)
I was off by a year it was 1958
TB-47B Stratojet 50-0013 3520 FTW, ATC, McConnell AFB, KS The aircraft was on a normal training mission with the student in the
front seat and the instructor pilot was in the back seat. The student was given unusual positions. During the recovery from the second unusual position, a 30 degree right wing low descent, the pilots heard a thump or crack. They then flew two steep turns. Then as the pilot was establishing a 45 degree bank the pilots heard what was described as a thump, rumble, muffled explosion, or a crack. The control column was pushed forward and the student pilot noted flames. He then pushed the alarm bell and ejected. The instructor had not completed the ejection sequence when the aircraft began to tumble and gyrate. He unbuckled his safety belt and dropped free when the aircraft went into inverted flight. Both the pilot and instructor survived but the pilot occupying the navigator's seat did not eject. The investigation revealed that the left wing failed at Butt line 35 due to fatigue cracks that had existed for an undetermined period of time. This was the first in a series of crashes that led to the Milk Bottle Inspection and Repair As Necessary, IRAN, mod program.
Pilot Instructor
attempted ejection
made force bail out Student Pilot
ejected Pilot on Navigator's seat
did not eject[/quote]
http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/B-47.htm (http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/B-47.htm)
From Tulsa TV Meories
http://tulsatvmemories.com/gb041809.html#b47 (http://tulsatvmemories.com/gb041809.html#b47)
QuoteApril 14 2009 at 21:12:54
Name: Michael D. Trout
Topic: B-47 explodes over Tulsa; death of Michael Todd; B-52 Skiatook crash
Email: Them Rooskies might harpoon us....
Comments: The day was Thursday, 13 March 1958. I was home sick from kindergarten at McKinley Elementary. I was out sick a lot, mostly bronchitis, for most of my time at McKinley. I was lying in bed reading. I remember it being a sunny day.
Earlier that morning, a U.S. Air Force Boeing TB-47B Stratojet training bomber took off from McConnell Air Force Base near Wichita. Assigned to the 3520th Combat Crew Training Wing, the jet's USAF tail number was 50-013, indicating the 13th aircraft accepted by the Air Force in 1950. On board were a student pilot, an instructor pilot, and an observer pilot. McConnell AFB, right next to the Boeing Wichita plant where B-47s were built, was the main training center for B-47 crews. The B-47 was the Air Force's first all-jet strategic nuclear bomber, but was really more of a medium bomber pressed into service while awaiting the much more capable Boeing B-52 Stratofortress. There were 66 TB-47B trainers, which had been converted from standard B-47B bombers. The Douglas plant in Tulsa had done 48 such modifications, while the Air Force itself did 18 mods at Tinker AFB.
At an altitude of about 23,000 feet, 50-013 flew to the Tulsa area, where it received clearance to fly within a 50 mile radius of the Tulsa aircraft radio beacon for 2 hours and 30 minutes. As the training began, the student pilot was ordered to put the plane into unusual positions, and then recover. The student achieved the first such position and recovered successfully. The second position was a 30-degree right wing low descent; as the student was recovering the pilots heard a "crack" or "thump," but nothing seemed amiss.
The student then practiced two steep turns. The first went as normal; the second was to be a left turn from a heading of 180 degrees, in a 45-degree bank at 250 knots. As the student put 50-013 into the 45-degree bank, there was a "rumble" and "muffled explosion." The TB-47 shuddered violently and the control column was abruptly yanked forward. The student noticed flames forward and below his left foot. He activated the alarm, blew off the canopy, and ejected successfully. By now the cockpit was engulfed in flames and the left wing had separated from the aircraft. 50-013 was tumbling out of control. The instructor pulled up his ejector control but, fearful of the plane's wild gyrations, elected not to eject. He waited until the plane was upside down, unbuckled his safety belt and fell clear, activating his parachute and landing safely. The observer did not escape. He made no attempt to eject, and Air Force investigators were not able to determine why.
The flames reached the enormous main fuselage tanks (the wings were too thin for fuel tanks) and the tumbling wreck exploded in a spectacular fireball over Tulsa. Our house shuddered from the impact of the violent bang, and I dove under the covers in terror. My mother, in her bedroom next to mine, looked out the south-facing window and saw the fireball, with pieces of flaming wreckage spinning earthward. Hanging from the ceiling of my bedroom were more than a dozen model airplanes my dad had built; the impact of the explosion knocked down the B-36 heavy bomber, which crashed to the floor. Like most Revell model airplane kits, this B-36 had an ugly plastic ball molded to the bottom of the fuselage, to serve as the attachment point for a plastic table stand. When the model hit the floor, the plastic ball snapped off cleanly. There was no other damage, and the B-36 model looked much nicer after my dad hung it back up. In U.S. Air Force service, the B-36 was the plane replaced by the B-47. The irony of it didn't hit me until many years later.
The explosion, over southeast Tulsa, rained debris over "at least 6 square miles of populated area" according to the Tulsa World the next day. My mom turned on the radio (I wish I could remember which station!) and people were calling in with reports of junk falling around them. I remember one terrified woman's voice: "There's an airplane wing in my back yard!" Callers were urged not to touch the debris.
The Air Force's investigation revealed that the left wing had failed, due to fatigue cracks "that had existed for an undetermined period of time." This was the first in a series of B-47 crashes due to wing cracks. This led to the "Milk Bottle IRAN" modification program. The huge attachment bolts that held the wing to the fuselage were shaped like milk bottles, and IRAN stood for Inspect and Repair As Necessary.
I went to school the next day, and we impressionable kiddies thought we could see a little piece of twisted aluminum caught in the telephone lines near Sheridan and King. Everybody was saying that the plane had blown up shortly after taking off from the Tulsa airport, which obviously was not true. There was another story, repeated by my dad, that one of the men on the plane was one of the Boggs brothers from two houses east of us on Newton Street, but I've never been able to confirm that.
The B-47 saw various improvements, eventually reaching the B-47E variant, but its operational life was relatively short. The obviously superior B-52 began to reach nuclear alert status in 1959, and B-47 units began to phase out in 1963. The last B-47 nuclear bombers were pulled from service in 1965.