The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

We are needing some repair work and painting done to the outside of our house. I have seen ads for the new ceramic coating that a couple of companies are doing, and wonder if anyone here has any experience with this process. At least one company that does it has a "limited lifetime warranty", but I know this is only as good as who stands behind it. And it hasn't been around long enough to have a track record.

I searched the forum and only found one reference to ceramic coating, and couldn't tell if the problems were resolved or not.

We are also considering vinyl siding for the wood areas, but I don't know if we can maintain the "look" of certain areas of the house that might scream "vinyl siding", if you know what I mean.

Any referrals would be appreciated for any of these processes (painting, ceramic coating, siding), and if there is any company or individual that should be avoided, please PM me so we don't get tangled up with them. Whatever we have to do is going to be expensive, and we already were burned by one painter a couple of years ago who never finished the job.

I PM'd you with the name of a ceramic coatings company to avoid.

They also offer a lifetime warranty, told us they were going to use more coats of paint than they actually sprayed, had to come back and clean up overspray, painted all the windows shut, removed the wire mesh from our attic vents (that used to keep varmints out),
and lastly, wanted to be paid before the job was complete.

Someone ELSE in the family wrote them a check, and we never got the job completed once they had the money.

Thanks for the info and the PM. This is exactly the type of problem we would like to avoid, especially when so much money is involved to do what we are needing to have done.

Ceramic is a gimmick from what I've heard.  Plus it's only as good as the underlayment/prep work.

When the time comes, we're gonna go with Certainteed vinyl shake siding.
http://www.certainteed.com/products/vinyl-siding/shake---shingle-siding

Straight up baller son.  ;D

I've used Joe Minardi who runs a small biz specializing in home re-construction, windows, siding, etc.
(918) 627-6565 . He'll straight  talk to you about a product's cons/pros without the high pressure sales you'd get from say Sears or Bill Haynes.

Ceramic IS a gimmick!  Don't buy it!  Use good paint - and it AIN'T Anchor!  Or anything you can buy at the do it yourself home dime-stores.  (Sherwin-Williams, Dutch Boy, etc are all good.)

If you have a problem with regular paint, it remains with ceramic.  The surface must - must - must be good!  Read that last sentence as shouting!

If need new siding, two very good products are available.  Hardi-board is a cement based product that lasts forever.  Or at least longer than you will - or any of your kids and grandkids.  "Smart Siding" is another really good one.  I have experimented with both - still have two test samples going - where I partially painted a piece of each (Sherwin-Williams A-100 exterior).  Put the board outside, one end stuck in the ground, the other leaning against a tree.  In 2001.  Paint is peeling at the ground end, and there is some separation damage to the Smart Siding, but that is still pretty good, seeing as how it has been in ground contact for 9 years, year round, wet, dry, snow, heat, whatever.  Cement board has paint peeling on ground end, but board is ok.

Started experiment same time as full house paint.  Trim is starting to need attention, but main siding is ok.  Will be painting full house again next year just for grins and giggles.  Will also be replacing siding with cement Hardi board.

Materials cost probably twice or little more, but labor is same (should be!) and the stuff will last in proper installation.  Recommend painting all sides before putting up on house.

Stick with paint, IMO.  Heir, what's your issue with Anchor?  We use their industrial coatings and they are every bit on par as any other manufacturer.

House paint sucks.  Had to repaint every 18 months until changed to Sherwin.  Went through that 3 times to keep trying to support the local people.  Has been 9 1/2 years now... next year is next paint job.

Industrial is different stuff.  Have also seen it work well.

 I don't want it to look like I'm hatin' or criticizing you. I am the new guy here after all.

 I don't know about your prep work but if you were only getting 18 months from Anchor, I would have to say you were doing something wrong. My father and I have used Anchor for as long as I can remember.
 Ok, my father used it, I was just the one that got drafted into helping when he didn't need a full crew. Dad was a painter all his life and has the lead poising to prove it. While I like Sherwin Williams, I don't believe their product is any better than Anchor, just more expensive. Their promar 400 is especially bad unless you are painting apartments.
 That being said, I found this statement that sums it up pretty well.
"Just because someone is a painter, doesn't automatically make them an expert on paint or color. Painters are no different than any other profession, you can't make assumptions and trust blindly.
The number one cause of paint failure is poor prep work."

 

Or using the wrong paint for the job like interior paint on an exterior wall...

I have been painting (for money) part time - on the side jobs - for quite a while and Sherwin and Dutch Boy have never failed like the Anchor.  The last time I used Anchor was 9 years and 18 months ago.  If so many are saying it is good now, I may have to try it again.  And the prep for the 3 Anchor attempts was identical to the Sherwin.  And all the other jobs ever done.

Maybe the 3 (x2 coats) layers of Anchor provided enough of a base coat that it kept the Sherwin alive?  No.
If so, then why didn't versions 2 and 3 of Anchor survive?

I have vinyl siding on my house and the advantage is before they install the vinyl they put on a layer of insulation and that helps with the electric bills for heating & cooling. I found in my house from the 1950's that there is NO insulation inside the outside walls- I guess back then heating fuel was cheap, at least now I have some insulation on my walls.

Riiiight...

Hoss,
Huh??

Is that disbelief?  (There are a lot of houses around that don't have insulation.  Didn't really become popular until the fifties.  A lot of 30s and 40s and early 50s that have plaster/lathe don't have any.  I think the theory in part was that the asbestos in the plaster would kind of help insulate!  Yeah...that was a good idea!)

SmokinOkie,
Haven't been tested for lead - don't want to officially know - but I did way more than enough houses in 60s and 70s to have a good buildup going.  And when a kid, none of you out there who grew up during the 50s and earlier can tell me you didn't chew on the window sills!  I can still remember the "sweet" taste of leaded paint!!

Ok, I'll give this one to all you right sided guys - the lead must explain it, huh?


Prep work - identical all four times - 3 with Anchor, 1 with Sherwin.  And even though it is the cheapest Louisiana Pacific junk siding available, it is still functional.  And coated with Sherwin.  The Anchor must have made a good primer, huh?  (I prime every time anyway, and two coats of color, so actually have about 12 coats of 'stuff' on there.

Will be painting again next year.

I don't remember chewing the window sills.   We were fortunate enough to have food in the house.

I didn't chew any window sills.  What a deprieved childhood! >:(  I think we did chew the banister indoors though ;D

We need to get our exterior painted as well.  I just interviewed my doctor's nurse's husband.  What a mouthful!

He only uses Sherwin Williams and said that there is a 15 year paint warranty from SW. 

Our house is about 2,300 sq ft, lower portion is brick and his quote was $2,865.00 to power wash, caulk around brick and windows, and whatever might need repairing, sanding.  He recommends a flat finish.

What say you guys?  He is listed with Better Business, has insurance etc. 

That sounds pretty fair.  Get some references and go look at his work.

I come from a family of painters. It put us kids through college and I sort of inherited knowledge of the business. I used Anchor on my all frame house and it lasted pretty well. Painted the house twice over the last three decades and its due again now.

Prep is the most important part of painting of course. That said, we did little other than to garden hose and use a duster on my house. The paint still held up fine. It is so dirty and windy in Oklahoma that you will have a layer of dust within a year that changes the color and finish as it adheres to the paint. Regardless of the quality. Our old houses were prepped with oil based paints and primers that provided a great base coat for future paintings. Too expensive to use those now. You have to scrape and sand in spots but overall the finish is tough.

Most painters use Anchor because its cost effective and locally made. THey are good to work with and extend credit to commercial users. Sherwin Williams, Pratt/Lambert, Dutch Boy are/were easier paints to apply and result in superior finishes. But after a year you could hardly tell the difference.

Supposedly the Sherwin William exterior paint that is going to be used requires just one coat.

Are you all in agreement with this, or is the contractor trying a fast one on me?

It is SW A-100 with a 15 year warranty he said?  Is that baloney?

A warranty is only as good as your dedication to exercising it. Most people never use them. To me its just puffery. It might be a good indication as to how good the paint quality is, iow, a lifetime warranty implies that the paint is higher quality than a 5 year warranty, but even so they depend on you never holding them to it. Many times the dealer and the painter are long gone by the time you realize the paint is failing. The last time I used an Anchor paint was for an interior job and I felt the quality was inferior to off the shelf paint at Lowes. However, I used their exterior masonry paint on some walls and brick and it is holding up fine.

As far as one coat, that depends on the underlying color and condition of the existing finish and how it is applied. Same color, good clean sanded finish and the paint has a primer mixed in to it then yes, its possible that one coat will cover. It did for me but I used the same pale grayish color each time. If you have to prime it for the one coat to adequately cover, then you're really applying two finishes and the labor is twice as much.

Bare in mind, I scraped and sanded loose areas where the paint was bubbling up or peeling away, spot primed bare wood areas, hosed the clapboard and used soapy water to clean my most visible areas and brushed away dust in the non visible areas and got 15 years out of Anchor's standard quality exterior latex paint. We used an airless spray system for flat areas and eaves while using brushes for the windows. Brushes do a better job of getting into crevices but a good spray guy is a lot cheaper. The Western side of the home didn't fare as well but almost nothing does on that side.

My advice is to pay for good quality paint but don't pay extra for so-called premium paints. Labor is your largest expense (and should be) if you want a durable, good looking paint job. Put your money there. People who do this kind of work well are scarce.
 
ps- I wouldn't use a flat finish on my home simply because it tends to absorb the dust in the air easier than a slight sheen. It makes for an interesting decorator sort of look but is harder to keep clean. Our weather tends to dull any finish anyway so you'll have a flat finish eventually anyway.

Thanks for the advice, and tips.  It will help.  I asked the painter for references, and I would like to see his work also.  He keeps harping on about Better Business ratings.  Should that be the main thing I look at?

I hope the OP isn't offended by me hijacking the thread.  I had contemplated starting a new painting thread but wasn't sure if to keep this one going or not.  Sorry!!

Here are some pics of the house and brick.  I am wanting to change the colour though I happen to like what we have here, but was told that some kind of taupe would look better because of the bricks and roof tones.  Any thoughts?
 
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k222/LaMariposita/Easter/housepainting2.jpg)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k222/LaMariposita/Easter/housepaintingbrick3.jpg)

It looks like a pretty straight forward, easy paint job compared to my 95yr old house. I'm guessing your home to be built between mid 60's to late 70's. The current color doesn't do much for it but I'm not sure taupe is your answer either. Matter of taste but I like a more vibrant color for that style.

I can buy a membership to BB and it has nothing to do with my ability to paint. They do keep track of complaints but previous work and references matter most. Make sure he's insured or bonded if he is spraying especially.

Ask him what he is charging you per sq foot of paintable area and how much repair he thinks is necessary. I don't know the going rate but if he hasn't figured the paintable area he doesn't even know how much paint to purchase and is winging it.

House was built in late 1989 and we moved in early 1990 actually.

I am not feeling the taupe either.  I actually almost thought to go darker grey for main body and charcoal for the trim?  But not sure if that's going against the bricks.  Where is that artist guy?  He might have a vision ;D

The higher the gloss, the more resistant to UV the paint will be.  I would use at least a satin or semi-gloss for the field (and trim).  Would even consider going to gloss for trim.  Just a thought.  Get a pint of each type and paint it on an inconspicuous spot.  Or buy a 1 X 4 at home remodel dime store (Lowe's or Home Depot, or ?) and paint it for practice.  Hold it up to brick and see if it works for you - color and gloss.  Repaint with next sample and try again.  (One end darker trim color, other end field color).

Your brick is almost identical to the last house I painted.  Used Chateau Brown (dark) for trim (Sherwin Williams - both) and Mesa tan for field.  Looks very good with the brick - complements it well - but browns are not my favorite.

Can't tell for sure about color of your shingles, but they look to be more grey tone, so tans may not work.  Grey versus browns - roof will clash more than the brick.

Could go a different direction that would work/contrasts with both.  Maybe a sea mist green (very pale) and a darker green for trim - just not forest green - too dark.

If roof is gray, a pale - very pale - lemon yellow with slightly darker trim might work.  VERY pale.

Of course, there is always my favorite - bright orange with black trim - just like the Harley Davidson bar and shield logo....

And I almost forgot...one coat is never enough, especially if going to different color.

And if they are going to 'spray' it, forget it.  The only way a sprayer is ever appropriate is if it is very thick coat that is then rolled or brushed on to smooth out. 

Just go look at any housing addition less than 15 years old, but more than one year old and you can see the 'spray' pattern where the paint is starting to fade, peel, degrade or just plain fail.  It is not viable to spray alone.  Someone tells you it is, you can be sure they have never painted a house that lasted more than two years.

Maybe that is Anchor's problem - only the cheapest paint used by the cheapest painters who won't do the job right anyway?

I was concerned when he mentioned one coat, and that there would be no need for priming evening though it would be a change of colour.  I was also concerned when I asked for references and he kept on harping about BB, and saying you can't get on there unless you have good ratings.

Gosh, is it always so hard to find good contractors????  Remember the tile guy I had who screwed up the work when he brought over his daughter who was a drug addict!

Anyway, the roof unfortunately is not as grey as I would like but does have a sort of tannish undertone.  I hate brown!

BTW, why did he say flat was better?  Is it cheaper?  Hides more sins at first?  He was pushing this 15 year warranty crap on me also. 

Was reading a site called:  colourmehappy.com.  Very interesting take on gray.  I have always loved gray for some reason.

Well, you better just sell the house and move.  Tannish roof, tan in the brick.  Grey walls?  Hmm...not really complementary on the color wheel.

You could easily re-roof.  And then change the brick - more red, less tan.  The grey would be great, then.

You just gotta do what you like.  Don't worry to much about color wheels and all that.  There is enough grey in that brick to be fine, too.

Simplifications and exaggerations. Its the contractors/builders who specify cheap paint. Anchor is willing to make the stuff to their specs. The painters only apply it and have no control over how cheap it is.

Spraying is fine, in fact practically mandatory for today's construction. Good painters know how to avoid what you saw.

I just finished an exterior paint project, I used Olympic Satin and I'm very happy with the results.  Coverage on many parts was complete going from a light grey to medium blue in one coat, but I chose to apply two coats for durability.

I have the ability to do very nice prep work, I simply lack the patience.   ;)

Overall, I'm incredibly pleased.

I recently completed a flip and got it on the market. I'm happy with the color I chose to complement the taupe brick. I was happy with the results. Home Depot eggshell.

"good painters" is the crux of the matter, isn't it?  Good painters spray and then roll or brush it out.
As mentioned, there are dozens of neighborhoods where the paint was sprayed, not brushed/rolled and now is fading in stripes (one spray coat).  Drive around anywhere.  They are everywhere.

Simplifications and exaggerations?  Where is that?  Straightforward, complete statements of the facts of the matter.  No extra words just for the sake of words.

But in fairness to Anchor, I am going to get some of their paint to do some painting with.  See if it is better than it has been.  I would love nothing better than to buy from an Oklahoma company - I consciously work toward that end every chance I get.

And going from light to dark is much easier to hide in one coat than going from dark to light.  I would always rather do that.

You can't compare painting in new construction of tract housing with older homes. Custom built would be a better comparison. As I noted above my father, my brother, myself and my uncle painted my house with a combination of spray equipment (airless) and brushes, with Anchor paint no less, and the paint lasted 15 years each time. I could still just touch it up, but I'm a painter at heart. I am no defender of Anchor, that was the best price at that time for a product we knew was dependable. I actually prefer Red Devil for interiors and Sherwin Williams makes a good product as well.

Anyway, we had a combined experience of over 150 years on all kinds of buildings with all kinds of equipment including conventional. We didn't roll or brush after the spray. I've only heard of that being done on sheet rocked interiors to get a textured finish because the paper on sheet rock tends to fuzz up when the paint hits it, unlike plaster walls. Not saying it isn't done, just not necessary on an exterior unless you want an effect or the paint sprayer is poorly adjusted or poorly used.

There are tons of people who have painting experience but finding the ones with GOOD experience is difficult I'm sure.

Waterboy is right about finding a good one with experience is hard.  It's near impossible at times!

So I am now getting quite confused.  One says if they spray (which is what this painter told me he is doing with one coat no less), he may need to use a brush also?  But then Waterboy is saying that is not necessary if it is done well?

I'm speaking from my own experience. You can get a good job of painting with an airless spray system and under the right circumstances (good surface prep, light color you're painting over and good quality paint) one coat can suffice. Many of the high quality paints now include primers and mildewcides in the paint. Airless systems are pretty simple, even homeowners can use them and get good results. He may elect to brush the window facings and trim rather than shield them, I would. But listen, talk to an architect if you know any. They usually seem to know the efficacy of products and techniques inside and out. They also may know of some respectable tradesmen.

Sorry for the confusion. The one thing you can depend on among tradesmen is that the way they do it....is the right way. ;)

Finding a qualified painter (or any other craft!) is a difficult thing.  It just so much depends on intangibles that cannot be quantified by the Better Business Bureau.  Over the years, I have been very lucky to find good people to do things that I cannot.  (Automatic transmission repair, air conditioner repair, painting when I don't want to, general mechanic stuff.  Still looking for a good plumber!)

For me, a process has worked out that seems to serve me well.  I identify a small project that is big enough to give representative results, but not necessarily the whole job I eventually want done.  Then get someone to do that one thing.  For painting, it might be to paint a small storage shed in the back yard.  Or just the garage door and surrounding face/trim around the door - leaving the bulk of the house alone.  Not always feasible, but can really give good insight if it can be made to work.

Casually related - new sheet rock - seal with primer before applying texture to make life easier.  Zinnser is great.  Kilz is very good.  Water based for new sheet rock.

You could just paint it yourself.  Just need to be a little bit acrobatic.

I remember a friend who tried to paint his own house a couple years ago.  He fell and broke his hand.  Don't want that happening to me, plus we just don't have the time.

Ever heard of Ross Bros?  I had them install my windows over three years, Andersen Renewal.  They did one large window in my kitchen first.  I was impressed.  Then I hired them to do all of upstairs (8) windows.  There was an issue with one window in the bathroom (large), and I called.  They came out twice to repair the caulking and trying to seal it to see if that would help.  Nada.  They changed out the window.  This is a company I trust because I have had issues, and they get to them right away.  I had them change out 13 windows downstairs last year.  We had a leaky window.  They came out to fix it. 

Now I want to find out if they do exterior painting.  I know that the brothers, Glen and Van tend to care about their customers so I feel safer with them. 

That could be a good way to get a painter contact.  See if the window guys have a painter they work with - they are less likely than most to recommend someone that might tarnish their own reputation.