The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

I am obsessed with this state question mostly because of the ridiculous campaign by the No forces. They have embarrassed me with a campaign poorly designed and executed.

I will start with the players. The Chamber and the local paper are both headed by people who have their kids in private schools. In fact, I haven't talked to a single person opposed to this measure who has kids in public schools. I am sure there are some, but the overwhelming percentage of the actual campaigners all have their kids in either Cascia Hall or Holland Hall. Of course they don't want to fund private schools with their tax dollars.

Secondly, the campaign has a tag line of  "the answer is always no." This is no mistake. They mean always. It isn't the merits of this bill or the accountability of the funding or even the budgetary impact on other state agencies. It is "ALWAYS VOTE NO ON SCHOOL FUNDING."
Always. That just astonishes me.

Thirdly, the fear campaign is so over the top. Passage of the bill doesn't mean less funding for other state services. It doesn't say we have to raise taxes. Those might both happen, but the legislature will decide that, not this bill. This bill doesn't close prisons and let 8,400 prisoners loose on society like the vote no people claim in a commercial. It doesn't mean laying off 125 state troopers like the vote no website says.It doesn't mean dramatic tuition hikes at state universities like the opponents say. Using fear factors for a campaign to keep underfunding our schools is just plain slimy.

Don't listen to the NO voices. This bill means a better school system and smarter kids. It means the legislature will be told that they have to fund schools to at least the average of what other state's legislatures have been able to do. Send them a message. Their priorities are wrong and we need to fund schools. They haven't so we the voters will make them . 

I certainly support increased funding for our public schools, and I'm even happy to be taxed for it.  (It's an investment that pays off.)  Here's my concern: Doesn't OK have a law prohibiting tax increases beyond a certain amount?  Are our hands tied?  Will state legislators have the guts to implement a tax increase to fund this measure? (I don't think so.)

The other thing that annoys me is that I want our legislators to legislate.  If they would do their job instead of pandering to out-of-touch ultra-conservatives, we wouldn't be voting on SQ 244 in the first place.  We would already have recognized that education funding is an investment.  If we had legislators with any sort of brains, they wouldn't have been cutting taxes during the good years, b/c they would have recognized that those dollars are our future.  (To be invested in our future--yes, spent!--and to provide cushion during hard times.)

Since this bill offers no spending structure for the funds, how can we be sure that the money won't be spent on teaching Sharia Law in the classroom?  Huh?  ;)

The only state law I know about limiting tax increases is a 5% limit on property taxes.

I can't argue against that logic. I will just bang my head against the table instead.

Where is this money going to come from to maintain the same level at what the surrounding states have if there are no tax increases? Are we just going to be like California and just screw and go into debt if our politciains decided to not decrease the funding of something else?Of course I am sure that instead of answering the questions you will call me a name or ask if I have kids that go to public school or some other totally unrelated question that doesn't have squat to do with funding.  Insinuating that the No on 744 campaign is dishonest or is using fear mongering is just blatantly dishonest on your part. It doesn't take a math nerd to figure out that something is going to have to be cut or that taxes will have to be increased with a bill dictating what must be spend on education.

i hadn't decided on this issue until the really slimy negative ads began to run. Then I figured it was the same old anti education, anti tax, anti progress groups that were against it. So, I figured to vote for it and force the legislators to really increase funding, not just play slight of hand like they did with lottery and casino revenues.

But my mom says the bill was written by Republicans in the legislature. Could it be they are using this bill to enable the most ignorant bill ever proposed? The one that proposes a change to the constitution to not allow such funding of issues based on nearby state averages with the bonus provision that it can never be repealed?

Who came up with these two bills anyway?

I just don't know how to answer that question.

Michael, can the question of just how we calculate the amount of money spent on education be answered? Put another way, does spending money on administration costs count as spending money on education? If I felt that this law would put money directly in the classroom I would have an easier time getting behind it. If it does nothing more than protect an education system that, in my view, is inefficient in how it spends dollars already then I am still a "no" vote.

This bill does not address that.

I am in agreement that there is inefficiency in our schools. I also see that same waste of money in Higher Ed, state prisons, the state highway department, etc.

I would love to see our next governor address these problems.

I have to disagree with you on this.  I think it is always vote no on 744,  NOT always vote no on school funding.

Always implies more than one time to me.

It's a bad bill. Re-write it with a funding mechanism, mandate percentages which go to the classroom, put performance incentives in it, and provide a comprehensive review process to stem waste and consolidate redundant school systems and it would pass

And yes I have a daughter in public schools

You  know the saying "vote early, vote often".  Always vote no on 744.
 ;D

The most hotly debated of the 11 state questions on Tuesday's statewide ballot appears headed for defeat, according to the latest Oklahoma Poll.


State Question 744, which would require an annual funding increase of as much as $1.7 billion for common education, was opposed by two-thirds of those surveyed last week by SoonerPoll.com.

Just three months ago, in July, the results were exactly the opposite - two-thirds of those surveyed supported the measure.

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=262&articleid=20101030_16_A1_CUTLIN207957

According to this Tulsa World story, 744 is not going to pass.

Like in the days of Faustus we are selling our heritage and that of our children by the continuous debit spending that drives values of saving accounts and property down.  There are codes and statutes that prohibit the spending beyond the monies called budgeted. We continually, local, state federally to awaken the world as they gather together by demand the G7 to G20 now be represented by 20 nations as protection against the warnings of writers predicting the ending of another empire.  In all elections before the vote is cast one should consider available money and not base the vote on greed of producing jobs with phony money who’s total value is based on the price of recycle paper.

We should have the money in hand before voting yes on the question. The frost has already hit our money tree and the money flutters in the winds of the North.

Fess up.  You're Sarah Palin's speechwriter, aren't you?

No but I have often wondered what happened to the industry who build the blinders for the horse halter industry that gave the horse tunnel vision.  It changed to where it limited voters to tunnel vision now. 

What? The days of Faustus?

The story has nothing to do with selling our heritage and our children and debt. Faust made a deal with the devil for power. There was no money transferred. Why would you use this obscure reference for a lecture on budgets?

Phony money, jobs and the price of recycled paper? You seem more confused than usual. Get some new meds...

He makes every bit as much sense as the people who cobbled this horrible piece of legislation do.

It had been so long since we heard from him I thought maybe he had medicated himself into "The Spirit World"....

NSFW

[youtube]jlJdsX181QU[/youtube]

_______________________________
Thirteen nations have taken an interest in the foreclosure and like Faust by debit spending it is the soul of this nation we are making a deal with the devil for.  Balance of payment can happen within the same as outside   

Really? Do you know what soul means?

I fear you just confuse old stories with crazy rants. You must be a hoot around history teachers.

Michael;

The "uphill battle" you are engaged in is the result of the always occurring money grab by the state legislators.  Remember the promise of the lottery for education?  And State Question 1070 for education?

They were lies and this is a lie.  It is just another door for corruption, graft, and political patronage in this state. 

If you want a change, then it will have to come about by not voting in the clowns that are there today.  Yeah, right...see if that happens.

In the meantime, keep in mind that this is the state that continues to elect Jim Inhofe, Randy Brogdon, and for decades before senility and some years after - Gene Stipe.  And Mary Fallin.

Don't forget my favorites to dislike: Mike Synar and Jim Jones

You are right. The best way to change the legislature is to vote out legislators.

But I only get to vote for one. I can't decide the other races. I did give a few dollars to some other candidates for state house with that in mind as well.

I am sad to agree that the best strategy is to throw them all out. I voted for the bill to limit terms today. Out of three pages of decisions, it is probably the only question or candidate on today's ballot that my vote mirrors the majority.

soul   

soul [sōl]
(plural souls)
n
1.  nonphysical aspect of person: the complex of human attributes that manifests as consciousness, thought, feeling, and will, regarded as distinct from the physical body 
2.  feelings: a person's emotional and moral nature, where the most private thoughts and feelings are hidden
Her soul was in turmoil.
 
3.  spirit surviving death: in some systems of religious belief, the spiritual part of a human being that is believed to continue to exist after the body dies.
The soul is sometimes regarded as subject to future reward and punishment, and sometimes as able to take a form that allows it to remain on or return to earth.
4.  spiritual depth: evidence of spiritual or emotional depth and sensitivity, either in a person or in something created by a person
Though technically perfect, the drawing lacked soul.
 
5.  essence: the deepest and truest nature of people or a nation, or what gives somebody or something a distinctive character
In my travels I hoped to discover the soul of the Russian people.
 
6.  type of person: somebody of a particular type, especially one regarded sympathetically or with familiarity
Poor soul! What will he do now?
 
7.  anyone: anyone at all (used in negative statements)
You have to promise not to tell a soul.
 
8.  individual person: an individual person, especially when thought of as making up the number of a group (usually used in the plural)
a country of some 10 million souls
 
9.  perfect example: a good example, or personification, of a positive quality
The hotel manager was the soul of discretion.
 
10.  somebody essential to something: the leader of or the most influential person in a group or movement 
11.  African American spirit: a quality regarded as characterizing African American culture, especially as manifested in understanding and in social customs, speech, and music 
12.  music Same as soul music


[ Old English sāwol < Germanic]

sell your soul to abandon your principles in order to obtain wealth or success

See sole1.
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Gee! I cannot understand why the total votes cast seems less than the total employees and associates paid out of the education funding

Course it is “don’t tax me but tax that fellow behind the tree.”.  There is a possibility that some posters will cry themselves to sleep tonight with visions of those promise dollars floating in the air;.  >:( >:( >:(.

Wow, you really ARE like that crazy uncle that all families have...

He uses a lot of confusing similes and metaphors, but he actually had some valid points in this discussion.  I appreciate that he's never afraid of being made fun of in sharing his points.

It's like that one time old X-Files tagline...

'Deceive, Inveigle, Obfuscate'.