We haven't enough money for schools for a number of reasons and I would like to eloborate on one of them. We have made prison building the new pork project for state representatives to bring jobs back to their district.
Last Sunday's Tulsa World had interesting facts on our new cottage industry. "our prison system has more than doubled, rising to 26,000 inmates, in 20 years. During the same period, the budget of the Department of Corrections, the overburdened innkeeper, surged 196 percent. Until recently, the prison system ranked as the fastest growing part of state government, consuming 7 percent of the state budget."
Look at this impressive list of facilities...
Altus Community Work Center
Ardmore Community Work Center
Beaver Work Center
Charles E. Johnson Correctional Center
Dr. Eddie Warrior Correctional Center
Earl A. Davis Work Center
Elk City Community Work Center
Enid Community Corrections Center
Frederick Community Work Center
Healdton Community Work Center
Hillside Community Corrections Center
Hobart Community Work Center
Hollis Community Work Center
Howard McLeod Correctional Center
Idabel Community Work Center
Jackie Brannon Correctional Center
James Crabtree Correctional Center
Jess Dunn Correctional Center
Jim E. Hamilton Correctional Center
John Lilley Correctional Center
Joseph Harp Correctional Center
Kate Barnard Community Corrections Center
Lawton Community Corrections Center
Lexington Assessment and Reception Center
Lexington Correctional Center
Mabel Bassett Correctional Center
Mack Alford Correctional Center
Mangum Community Work Center
Marshall County Community Work Center
Muskogee Community Corrections Center
Northeast Oklahoma Correctional Center
Oklahoma City Community Corrections Center
Oklahoma State Penitentiary
Oklahoma State Reformatory
R.B. Conner Correctional Center
Sayre Community Work Center
Walters City Community Work Center
Waurika Community Work Center
William S. Key Correctional Center
Enough already.
I agree. They need to make the death penalty process more efficient so they can clean them out.
They provide much needed career opprutunity in rural communities......The money for these has nothing to do with schools.....
Quote from: OpenYourEyesTulsa on November 05, 2010, 09:31:08 AM
I agree. They need to make the death penalty process more efficient so they can clean them out.
This is just plain stupid. I hope you are joking.
Death row makes up a tiny fraction of the overall prisoner population, speeding death row would do nothing to shrink the number of people we lock up. Typical inane Republican sound bite solution to a real problem.
The majority of prisoners are in jail for drugs and not violent crimes anyway. Get rid of three strikes for non violent offenders and switch rehab for most jail time for drug offenders. Hell, legalize pot for that matter and we would not need nearly so much prison space.
And while the DOC is building all these new facilities, their maintenance at older facilities is deplorable. There's a pattern of waiting until critical mechanical systems fail before they do anything about it which spikes the cost of replacement projects. I'm working on a project at one of the facilities right now. They are on back up heat and hot water and if that takes a crap, they've got 1000 pissed off and cold inmates. The people I'm dealing with on the project are having to take furlough days which is maddening in trying to schedule phases of the project. I had to put of a job walk with a sub today because our maintenance director is on a furlough day.
The DOC is incredibly inefficient mostly due to all this decentralization. There's no reason we should have more than six to ten large regional facilities other than what has been pointed out about prisons bringing money to rural areas. We have the same problem with our state university system.
With all these "work centers", can these become income-producing and self-sustaining? Are they actually producing something of value now, or simply digging ditches and spreading asphalt which saves state budget money now? Can anyone put an answer on that.
Also, before we accept that the majority of offenders are in due to minor drug issues, someone please provide some real stats. Often these drug offenders had theft and domestic violence or weapons charges in concert with the drug charges, but often on plea, some charges get dropped. On the one hand, DA's get beat up for accepting plea deals and turning people loose (the proverbial "revolving door") or there's too much crime on the streets and we aren't locking enough people up. I honestly have a hard time believing the Oklahoma prisons are crowded with a bunch of people who were caught with an ounce of weed.
I kind of wonder if these prisons are used to house inmates from other states. If so then this should be stopped. I have no problem with criminals being locked up however I believe states should only house their own inmates and not those of other states.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on November 05, 2010, 07:17:03 AM
We haven't enough money for schools for a number of reasons and I would like to eloborate on one of them. We have made prison building the new pork project for state representatives to bring jobs back to their district.
Time to repeal prohibition, and do away with all the associated corruption.
There are those that say it will reduce our productivity, but how productive are people locked up in prisons because they had marijuana in their home?
Then there's CCA promising they can keep prisons full and profitable with new immigration laws...
I was going off what my father had told me years ago when he was the head psychologist at McAlester.
It was hard to find hard numbers or very recent numbers but here they are. Only half of all prisoners are convicted of violent offenses. The other half are property crimes and drugs. In 2000 22% of Federal prisoners were in for drugs, 50.5% of people in state prisons and jails were in for drugs. That was in 2000, I would assume those numbers to be higher today. I didn't find anything on Oklahoma specifically.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/409/toohigh.shtml
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/
We could reduce crime by making all the non-violent crimes no longer crimes.
By the way, where do you keep your spare house key? I'd really hate to have someone break down your door to get in and non-violently steal all your stuff when they could just open the door.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 05, 2010, 11:32:43 AM
We could reduce crime by making all the non-violent crimes no longer crimes.
By the way, where do you keep your spare house key? I'd really hate to have someone break down your door to get in and non-violently steal all your stuff when they could just open the door.
That's a crap response. I'm not advocating anything like releasing all non violent or even all drug offenders. Typical Republican inane sound bite red herring response.
I am saying rehab instead of jail for many, maybe most but certainly not all drug offenders and no third strike for non violent offenders. A real argument could be made for shorter sentences too for non violent offenders overall. Let's stop leading the world in the percentage of the population in prison.
We lead the developed world in murders, crime, and incarceration. Maybe we aren't doing it the whole criminal justice thing right. Our schools rank near the bottom in the developed world, and we lead the developed world in percentage of population in poverty. Could poverty be our real problem? Not crime? Maybe we should spend more money on schools instead of on prisons. Shouldn't we try to save money on prisons so that more could be devoted to schools?
We just like having prisoners. It makes our politicians look tough on crime.
Oklahoma incarcerates 665 per 100,000 population.
Kansas is 312. Arkansas is 502. Missouri is 506. The national average is 447.
We are number four. Only Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi have a higher incarceration rate.
Oh, and we are number one are incarcerating women.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on November 05, 2010, 12:00:33 PM
Oh, and we are number one are incarcerating women.
In our defense, some of the women I've dated...
Quote from: Townsend on November 05, 2010, 12:07:10 PM
In our defense, some of the women I've dated...
You just thought they were women...
Quote from: swake on November 05, 2010, 11:25:19 AM
I was going off what my father had told me years ago when he was the head psychologist at McAlester.
It was hard to find hard numbers or very recent numbers but here they are. Only half of all prisoners are convicted of violent offenses. The other half are property crimes and drugs. In 2000 22% of Federal prisoners were in for drugs, 50.5% of people in state prisons and jails were in for drugs. That was in 2000, I would assume those numbers to be higher today. I didn't find anything on Oklahoma specifically.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/409/toohigh.shtml
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/
You are correct, trying to find relevant statistics for who is incarcerated is maddening, but I finally did on the ODOC web site. Here's a link to the Sept. 2010 report:
http://www.doc.state.ok.us/newsroom/facts/September%202010%20Facts%20at%20a%20Glance.pdf
Here's how to get to the reports if you want to do some poking around:
http://www.doc.state.ok.us/newsroom/faag.htm
Non-violent offenses comprise 52.5% of the incarcerated population 47.5% are violent offenses. One metric we don't know is how many non-violent were after a prior violent or simply a habitual thief or multiple drug offenses or negligent homicide attached to alcohol or drug use. I think we can agree that someone who has multiple DUI's or driving impaired on drugs is a threat to public safety.
There's just over 52,000 people in the DOC system. Right at 1/2 are incarcerated. The rest are on community sentencing, parole, or probation, and similar programs I refer to as "out-patient prisoners".
By far distributing a controlled substance is the leading crime at 4400 offenders, or 17.1%. Next is possession or trying to obtain a dangerous substance at 2780 inmates or 10.7%. Assault, robbery, and rape round out the top five offenses of people in the prison system at 6911.
So, nearly 28% of the prison population is there for a drug offense, 10% of the population is essentially users. I'm curious how many on distribution charges were more or less "trumped-up" based on having a large quantity for personal use? I also think we should be taking a closer look at non-violent offenders getting 1 to 3 year sentences for first offenses and see if they can be put on probation instead.
Swake, as far as the three strike rule, I suppose there was some sort of methodology to that when it was crafted but it doesn't leave much room for a judge to be objective in sentencing. I believe the public has a right to be protected from someone who has been busted multiple times for auto theft or burglary but I'm sure it's being misapplied in many cases based on our prison population.
Also of note is are recidivism rate is about 23%
Quote from: swake on November 05, 2010, 11:56:02 AM
That's a crap response.
Of course it is. At least you clarified your position.
QuoteTypical Republican inane sound bite red herring response.
Sometimes you guys on the left need a smack upside the head with a 2x4.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 05, 2010, 12:43:57 PM
Sometimes you guys on the left need a smack upside the head with a 2x4.
Yet another typical crap Republican response ;)
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 05, 2010, 12:43:57 PM
Of course it is. At least you clarified your position.
Sometimes you guys on the left need a smack upside the head with a 2x4.
Don't go there. This isn't about left or right. Try and follow the conversation.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 05, 2010, 12:19:22 PM
So, nearly 28% of the prison population is there for a drug offense, 10% of the population is essentially users. I'm curious how many on distribution charges were more or less "trumped-up" based on having a large quantity for personal use?
(Tulsa Police Officer Eric) Hill told Department of Justice officials that on more than one occasion he "replaced" narcotics that had either been destroyed or disposed of by a suspect with narcotics that either he or another officer brought to the scene. http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20100910_11_A1_Reside602553
So planting drugs on citizens was (is?) essentially determined by what drugs an officer expects a citizen to be in possession of. That's how you keep prisons full.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on November 05, 2010, 12:11:41 PM
You just thought they were women...
FINALLY!! Someone's reading my blog.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on November 05, 2010, 12:50:53 PM
Don't go there. This isn't about left or right. Try and follow the conversation.
You should pay attention too. I made an obviously rediculous suggestion to see where Swake stood. Swake introduced the derogatory remarks about party affiliation, not me.
swake
El Diablo
City Father
Offline
Posts: 4142
Re: Stop building new prisons in Oklahoma
« Reply #9 on: Today at 10:56:02 am » Quote
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Quote from: Red Arrow on Today at 10:32:43 am
We could reduce crime by making all the non-violent crimes no longer crimes.
By the way, where do you keep your spare house key? I'd really hate to have someone break down your door to get in and non-violently steal all your stuff when they could just open the door.
(End of my post, RedArrow. Begin Swakes response.)
That's a crap response. I'm not advocating anything like releasing all non violent or even all drug offenders. Typical Republican inane sound bite red herring response.
Conan, I actually largely agree with you on this. I might go a little farther, but on the basics, we've got essentially the same position. People who repeatedly commit crimes that harm others should be put in jail, violent or nonviolent. People who commit most violent crimes should be locked up for a spell the first time around (unless it's something like a stupid bar fight, in which case probation with an alcohol restriction is probably appropriate). People who aren't hurting other people should either have their offense redefined as "not a crime" or given probation.
There is no sense in locking up people whose crime doesn't involve harm to others. It's a waste of money. Most people should be given the chance to reform their behavior before being thrown in prison where they get the full on rape experience and learn how to be an even stupider criminal.
I think a large part of the issue is felony creep, though. So many crimes that used to be misdemeanors have been redefined as felonies as part of our various pushes to be "touch on crime" that it's much harder for the offender to re-integrate into society. It's nearly impossible to get a job as a felon.
Quote from: nathanm on November 05, 2010, 02:11:39 PM
Conan, I actually largely agree with you on this. I might go a little farther, but on the basics, we've got essentially the same position. People who repeatedly commit crimes that harm others should be put in jail, violent or nonviolent. People who commit most violent crimes should be locked up for a spell the first time around (unless it's something like a stupid bar fight, in which case probation with an alcohol restriction is probably appropriate). People who aren't hurting other people should either have their offense redefined as "not a crime" or given probation.
There is no sense in locking up people whose crime doesn't involve harm to others. It's a waste of money. Most people should be given the chance to reform their behavior before being thrown in prison where they get the full on rape experience and learn how to be an even stupider criminal.
I think a large part of the issue is felony creep, though. So many crimes that used to be misdemeanors have been redefined as felonies as part of our various pushes to be "touch on crime" that it's much harder for the offender to re-integrate into society. It's nearly impossible to get a job as a felon.
I'll have to agree with you on this Nathan. Hope it doesn't make you change yor mind.
I like it when we agree. It gives me hope that maybe I'm not quite as much of a commie as I sometimes seem. ;)
I'm also not much on the concept of "punishment". Either you warehouse the incorrigible so they can't harm others or find a way to rehab those who simply foobared up and got caught and have them make restitution to those they harmed. A prison term doesn't do much to help with the restitution part.
The concept of "rehabilitation" is likely best carried out outside prison walls not inside where there's a whole different society and negative influences. I'm not saying people have not been rehabilitated in prison, certainly many have since recidivism rates for Oklahoma are about 23%, that means 77% got the message or simply haven't been caught again. I'd like to understand the criteria used on DOC pre-sentincing reports judges rely on to make sentencing decisions.
Saw a show the other day (PBS maybe?) about Australia. Seems like the Aboriginal population is 3% and their prison population is over 40%. Our black population is about 12-14% of the country and over 40% of the prison population.
And the average drop out rate is about 25 to 3%.
We are doing something wrong.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on November 07, 2010, 11:07:51 PM
Saw a show the other day (PBS maybe?) about Australia. Seems like the Aboriginal population is 3% and their prison population is over 40%. Our black population is about 12-14% of the country and over 40% of the prison population.
And the average drop out rate is about 25 to 3%.
We are doing something wrong.
Who is "we"? You mean the rest of us who keep sentencing black people to prison?
"We" as in society-as-a-whole in Australia and the United States. There may be others, but those specifically.
Another comment made was the observation that there were proportionally more Aboriginals in Australia at any given than South Africa had in prison at the height of apartheid.
I don't know what to tell you Heir, if a large percent of black people are committing violent crimes, then we are going to incarcerate a large percentage of them. I have serious doubts in today's civil rights-oriented and PC world that more blacks being incarcerated on a per capita basis is remotely rooted in racism.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 08, 2010, 03:16:15 PM
I don't know what to tell you Heir, if a large percent of black people are committing violent crimes, then we are going to incarcerate a large percentage of them. I have serious doubts in today's civil rights-oriented and PC world that more blacks being incarcerated on a per capita basis is remotely rooted in racism.
In a round about sort of way it is. When you start out at the bottom, it is really hard to crawl out. The majority of those being incarcerated come from this situation. The blacks were put into this lower class decades ago, due to the racism of the time and for them it was a step up given the situation. Some make it out, most aren't so lucky.
Now don't get me wrong, this is not an excuse in any way for people to commit crimes, or not take it on themselves to make a better life for themselves legally. Just saying that the high number of black inmates stems from the high number of blacks in proverty, which stems from blacks as a whole starting in proverty generations ago because of racism.
Just please tell me that makes more sense then stuff shadows posts
Yes custonox. Your posts actually make sense and I usually agree with your logic. Shadows...not so often.
Quote from: custosnox on November 08, 2010, 03:59:33 PM
In a round about sort of way it is. When you start out at the bottom, it is really hard to crawl out. The majority of those being incarcerated come from this situation. The blacks were put into this lower class decades ago, due to the racism of the time and for them it was a step up given the situation. Some make it out, most aren't so lucky.
Now don't get me wrong, this is not an excuse in any way for people to commit crimes, or not take it on themselves to make a better life for themselves legally. Just saying that the high number of black inmates stems from the high number of blacks in proverty, which stems from blacks as a whole starting in proverty generations ago because of racism.
Just please tell me that makes more sense then stuff shadows posts
I understand your logic. Much as the thread Nathan and I were discussing about poverty the other day, it's a choice. You can't force someone to leave poverty, crime, and hopelessness behind. There's plenty of help and opportunity for those who want it. In many cases, the deck is stacked
in favor of minorities to help them break this cycle.
Still though, I have a hard time accepting the actions 19 year-old they arrested yesterday for killing three people in October (and is now a "person of interest" in the Saturday double-slaying in north Tulsa) were the result of years of racism or slavery or otherwise being held down by whitey.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 08, 2010, 04:39:32 PM
I understand your logic. Much as the thread Nathan and I were discussing about poverty the other day, it's a choice. You can't force someone to leave poverty, crime, and hopelessness behind. There's plenty of help and opportunity for those who want it. In many cases, the deck is stacked in favor of minorities to help them break this cycle.
Still though, I have a hard time accepting the actions 19 year-old they arrested yesterday for killing three people in October (and is now a "person of interest" in the Saturday double-slaying in north Tulsa) were the result of years of racism or slavery or otherwise being held down by whitey.
I did say in a round about sort of way. In the end people are responsible for their own choices.
But I will say, from my second time in proverty, that it's not an easy task to get out no matter what race you are.
There's more to the disproportionate incarceration of minorities than just poverty. Part of is increased interaction with police. Not because police are racist, but because they patrol more in "high crime" areas, which happen to be where you have a greater concentration of minorities.
For example, blacks get incarcerated for drug crimes at more than twice the rate of white people. Counterintuitively, blacks are actually less likely to be drug users but since they have, on average, more interaction with the police they are more likely to get arrested for a drug crime. We end up being better at catching black people who have drugs, not because of racism, but because of where we concentrate our policing.
This disparity is partly responsible for the "eff the police" attitude many in crime ridden minority dominated neighborhoods. None of this is to excuse anybody's behavior, but more to explain it.
Quote from: nathanm on November 08, 2010, 05:03:40 PM
There's more to the disproportionate incarceration of minorities than just poverty. Part of is increased interaction with police. Not because police are racist, but because they patrol more in "high crime" areas, which happen to be where you have a greater concentration of minorities.
For example, blacks get incarcerated for drug crimes at more than twice the rate of white people. Counterintuitively, blacks are actually less likely to be drug users but since they have, on average, more interaction with the police they are more likely to get arrested for a drug crime. We end up being better at catching black people who have drugs, not because of racism, but because of where we concentrate our policing.
This disparity is partly responsible for the "eff the police" attitude many in crime ridden minority dominated neighborhoods. None of this is to excuse anybody's behavior, but more to explain it.
So basically, with the call for more police patrols in north Tulsa or typically black areas of the city to stem the violence we would likely see an uptick in arrests for other crimes. That makes entirely too much sense to be logical ;)
Did the polar caps swap or something? I'm finding myself more and more in agreement with you lately.
Custo- I've been broke before, but I'd never go so far as to say destitute. I agree it's not easy to dig out of, but you and I chose not to break any laws getting out of it nor out of desperation. There's always a personal choice involved.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 08, 2010, 05:39:18 PM
So basically, with the call for more police patrols in north Tulsa or typically black areas of the city to stem the violence we would likely see an uptick in arrests for other crimes. That makes entirely too much sense to be logical ;)
Did the polar caps swap or something? I'm finding myself more and more in agreement with you lately.
That's pretty much it.
We didn't have a pole reversal, we're just talking about things we're generally in agreement on. I'm sure if we started talking about health care we could still get a good argument going. ;)
Quote from: Conan71 on November 08, 2010, 05:39:18 PM
Custo- I've been broke before, but I'd never go so far as to say destitute. I agree it's not easy to dig out of, but you and I chose not to break any laws getting out of it nor out of desperation. There's always a personal choice involved.
And that is why I say an individual is responsible for that choice
The difference has been rubbed in our noses almost daily for what, a year or so now? Lindsey Lohan is a convicted druggy. Because she is supposedly "cute", she is getting lots of slack. Not just a race thing; it is well known and well proven that pretty people get breaks.
But us pretty people are better than the rest of you.
Don't hate me because I am beautiful.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on November 09, 2010, 03:21:29 PM
But us pretty people are better than the rest of you.
Don't hate me because I am beautiful.
OK, give me a better reason.
You ain't that pretty.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on November 10, 2010, 12:26:28 PM
You ain't that pretty.
I don't know, I know of a large number of flies that are attracted to him... sorry RM, couldn't resist that one
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-plans-5.2m-prison-fund-shift/article/3544998 (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-plans-5.2m-prison-fund-shift/article/3544998)
QuoteRepublican leaders in the Oklahoma Legislature have reached a deal to divert $5.2 million within the Department of Corrections to spare the agency from forcing prison guards and other workers to take additional furlough days.
A proposed bill obtained by The Associated Press on Tuesday directs the agency to tap money in its prison industries fund. Inmates run farms and make furniture and other goods. Prisons spokesman Jerry Massie says it's not clear what kind of impact the funding shift will have.
Guards and other workers still will take one furlough day a month, but using the industries fund would avoid their having to take up to four days off each month without pay.
The proposed bill is to be presented to a joint House and Senate committee Wednesday.
Quote from: Townsend on March 01, 2011, 01:41:52 PM
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-plans-5.2m-prison-fund-shift/article/3544998 (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-plans-5.2m-prison-fund-shift/article/3544998)
Am I reading this correctly, that money is being taken from programs that might actually involve corrective programs, to keep prison guards from having to take the couple of days off a year (that virtually every other work sector in the nation did)?
Quote from: patric on March 01, 2011, 02:12:05 PM
Am I reading this correctly, that money is being taken from programs that might actually involve corrective programs, to keep prison guards from having to take the couple of days off a year (that virtually every other work sector in the nation did)?
That's how I'm reading it.
And she's put her X on her first law.
http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=14279289 (http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=14279289)
QuoteOKLAHOMA CITY – A bill aimed to prevent additional furloughs at The Oklahoma Department of Corrections has been signed into law, the governor's office said Friday.
The bill will allow the Department of Corrections to use $5.25 million from a prison industries fund.
"This bill will get the Department of Corrections the funds it needs to safely operate our prisons and prevent additional furloughs," Fallin said. "I remain absolutely committed to public safety and I'm glad the department and the Legislature were able to work together with our office to reach this solution."
The bill is the piece of legislation signed into law by Fallin, who took office in January.
And this sort of crap is why we have to have so many prisons. It serves absolutely nobody to lock this guy up for 20 years. Freakin' meth manufacturers get less:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20110730_14_A15_CUTLIN753886
Quote from: RecycleMichael on November 05, 2010, 12:00:33 PM
We just like having prisoners. It makes our politicians look tough on crime.
Oklahoma incarcerates 665 per 100,000 population.
Kansas is 312. Arkansas is 502. Missouri is 506. The national average is 447.
We are number four. Only Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi have a higher incarceration rate.
Oh, and we are number one are incarcerating women.
I apologize for re-posting this, but felt compelled to say it again.
Good,......we keep more scum bags off the streets.....
Quote from: nathanm on July 30, 2011, 04:55:32 PM
And this sort of crap is why we have to have so many prisons. It serves absolutely nobody to lock this guy up for 20 years. Freakin' meth manufacturers get less:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20110730_14_A15_CUTLIN753886
Really? Care to ask the victim's family about that?
He had a wanton disregard for other's safety when he got loaded and got behind the wheel of his Hummer. It doesn't matter how he took someone else's life, the fact is three people are dead because of his utter lack of concern for anyone else's safety. Sorry Nate but driving effed-up is no different than pointing a loaded gun at someone. Are these people any less dead than a convenience store clerk who took a bullet to the forehead?
I could agree with you if he'd been locked up for 24 years for simple possession or smoking a doobie walking down a sidewalk. Driving after smoking dope and eating xanax is a triple fatality wreck waiting to happen, especially on slick roads.
CMIIW, but in most states if you are involved in an accident where there is an injury or a fatallity, and you are found to be under the influence, that it automatically becomes a felony charge instead of a misdomeaner. He was found with pot in his system (yes I know it can last 28 days) but he was found within an illegal substance in his blood that is known to impare judgement.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 01, 2011, 09:19:03 AM
Really? Care to ask the victim's family about that?
He had a wanton disregard for other's safety when he got loaded and got behind the wheel of his Hummer. It doesn't matter how he took someone else's life, the fact is three people are dead because of his utter lack of concern for anyone else's safety. Sorry Nate but driving effed-up is no different than pointing a loaded gun at someone. Are these people any less dead than a convenience store clerk who took a bullet to the forehead?
I could agree with you if he'd been locked up for 24 years for simple possession or smoking a doobie walking down a sidewalk. Driving after smoking dope and eating xanax is a triple fatality wreck waiting to happen, especially on slick roads.
But the point is that the ambulance tech testified that he wasn't impaired, and THC will continue to test positive in the bloodstream for well over a week.
Not saying he wasn't at fault, but do we know for sure if he was impaired when the accident happened?
Quote from: Hoss on August 01, 2011, 10:50:47 AM
But the point is that the ambulance tech testified that he wasn't impaired, and THC will continue to test positive in the bloodstream for well over a week.
Not saying he wasn't at fault, but do we know for sure if he was impaired when the accident happened?
How the hell would the EMT know.......They don't administer sobriety check in the back of the bus.....
Quote from: nathanm on July 30, 2011, 04:55:32 PM
And this sort of crap is why we have to have so many prisons. It serves absolutely nobody to lock this guy up for 20 years. Freakin' meth manufacturers get less:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20110730_14_A15_CUTLIN753886
Guess this guy should not have gone to prison as well.
http://asuwebdevilarchive.asu.edu/issues/2002/10/16/campusnews/298088 (http://asuwebdevilarchive.asu.edu/issues/2002/10/16/campusnews/298088)
http://www.magiccitymedia.com/?page_id=4&aid=31 (http://www.magiccitymedia.com/?page_id=4&aid=31)
Quote from: Breadburner on August 01, 2011, 10:54:57 AM
How the hell would the EMT know.......They don't administer sobriety check in the back of the bus.....
I would think that an EMT would be able to ascertain a lot better than say...you?
Quote from: Hoss on August 01, 2011, 11:16:41 AM
I would think that an EMT would be able to ascertain a lot better than say...you?
No, not really. I believe he was also in possession at the time and blood tests revealed he was on xanax, IIRC. The blood test is the mitigating factor here, as well, he had stated that he was distracted by his dog right before the accident.
Sorry, no mercy for narcissistic dipshits who don't have regard for fellow human's life and safety. It's no different than firing a gun into a crowd of people, people wind up just as dead, Hoss whether that was the shooters intention or not. And you know what? I feel the same way about distracted driving. I believe in as harsh of penalties if it's proven someone was texting when they cause an accident of this magnitude.
Driving is serious business, not a passive activity.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 01, 2011, 11:45:02 AM
No, not really. I believe he was also in possession at the time and blood tests revealed he was on xanax, IIRC. The blood test is the mitigating factor here, as well, he had stated that he was distracted by his dog right before the accident.
Sorry, no mercy for narcissistic dipshits who don't have regard for fellow human's life and safety. It's no different than firing a gun into a crowd of people, people wind up just as dead, Hoss whether that was the shooters intention or not. And you know what? I feel the same way about distracted driving. I believe in as harsh of penalties if it's proven someone was texting when they cause an accident of this magnitude.
Driving is serious business, not a passive activity.
I'm not saying he was not at fault. But to say he was impaired? Might be a stretch given that the THC tests cannot determine when a person has smoked. I emphasize yet again, that I'm not saying he should be absolved from blame, because you are right; distracted driving probably causes more accidents then say, being mildly impaired on the chronic.
My concern is that they were aligning the sentence to reflect his impairment. Should he be punished? Sure, to the fullest extent the law allows. Should that punishment include driving while impaired? That's debatable.
Quote from: Hoss on August 01, 2011, 11:49:35 AM
I'm not saying he was not at fault. But to say he was impaired? Might be a stretch given that the THC tests cannot determine when a person has smoked. I emphasize yet again, that I'm not saying he should be absolved from blame, because you are right; distracted driving probably causes more accidents then say, being mildly impaired on the chronic.
My concern is that they were aligning the sentence to reflect his impairment. Should he be punished? Sure, to the fullest extent the law allows. Should that punishment include driving while impaired? That's debatable.
He pled guilty (blind plea) to first degree manslaughter so he must have figured he was going to fare worse with a jury.
If the evidence was weak his attorney would have gone to trial.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 01, 2011, 01:13:10 PM
If the evidence was weak his attorney would have gone to trial.
The evidence would have been weak were it not for the state law that writes off science. Here in Oklahoma, a positive THC test is taken as evidence you're impaired. This sort of stuff is precisely why I think field sobriety tests are more important than a number. If a person is too impaired to drive, it should show up on the video.
Every decade or so some government scandal hits Oklahoma. The County Commissioners, Tag Agent nepotism, Insurance Commissioner, Nursing homes.
Its about time for some smart brave journalist to spell out the relationship between state officials and the penal system here. Who owns what interests in their construction, administration and privatization and what incentives there are to incarcerate so much of our population. If any smart brave journalists still exist.
Quote from: nathanm on August 01, 2011, 02:54:39 PM
The evidence would have been weak were it not for the state law that writes off science. Here in Oklahoma, a positive THC test is taken as evidence you're impaired. This sort of stuff is precisely why I think field sobriety tests are more important than a number. If a person is too impaired to drive, it should show up on the video.
Motor skills aren't near as impaired under the influence of pot, so not as easy to tell on a FST. Generally someone won't have trouble balancing on one foot, walking a straight line, reciting the alphabet, etc. unless they just finished off a whole joint of some really potent one hit wonder. However, it can affect judgement, make a person easily distracted, and give a false sense of increased mental acuity.
Have you ever actually smoked it to understand the effects?
Quote from: Conan71 on August 01, 2011, 03:57:17 PM
Motor skills aren't near as impaired under the influence of pot, so not as easy to tell on a FST.
Sure, they're not likely to be literally stumbling, but there are effects on motor skills, nystagmus, among other observable physiological effects.
Declaring that anyone who has smoked a joint in the last month or so is guilty of DUI and subject to manslaughter charges should someone be killed in a crash is just stupid.
Quote from: nathanm on August 01, 2011, 04:04:18 PM
Sure, they're not likely to be literally stumbling, but there are effects on motor skills, nystagmus, among other observable physiological effects.
Declaring that anyone who has smoked a joint in the last month or so is guilty of DUI and subject to manslaughter charges should someone be killed in a crash is just stupid.
Nystagmus is no guarantee of anything, that's even somewhat common in people who don't drink or do drugs.
Let this be a lesson then to anyone who might smoke pot, then. Again, you are leaping to an assumption he might not have smoked pot in the last few weeks. He WAS in possession, after all. He did take a blind plea. Things we don't know from the investigation are whether or not there was still a joint burning in the ash tray, or bong water splattered all over his Hummer on impact.
If he really wasn't loaded when the accident happened, he would have gone to trial. There's got to be more evidence than just what you and I have heard. I know I sure as hell wouldn't have pled out if all they had was some THC in my blood from a party a few weeks before. The kid was driving a Hummer, I'm guessing his parents could have gotten him an attorney to fight it.
Ooops, just checked his OSCN file. He was represented by Allen Smallwood. It's rare that Smallwood ever admits he's been licked, although there's an interesting precedence for his clients for such a blind plea: Tausha Borland. She was the drunk driver who killed the two cyclists and ran over one of my friends out by the bait shop a few miles west of where this crash happened. I'm just saying, based on reputation, if Smallwood told him to plea rather than face trial, there had to have been more than a blood test working against him.
Wouldn't you fight tooth and nail if it was occasional pot use and you know you weren't under the influence? Most people have a pretty strong survival instinct, especially when it comes to wanting to avoid imprisonment.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 01, 2011, 04:31:26 PM
If he really wasn't loaded when the accident happened, he would have gone to trial. There's got to be more evidence than just what you and I have heard. I know I sure as hell wouldn't have pled out if all they had was some THC in my blood from a party a few weeks before. The kid was driving a Hummer, I'm guessing his parents could have gotten him an attorney to fight it.
...
Wouldn't you fight tooth and nail if it was occasional pot use and you know you weren't under the influence? Most people have a pretty strong survival instinct, especially when it comes to wanting to avoid imprisonment.
Sure, I'd fight, but I'd also know I'd lose unless I could somehow prove I hadn't been smoking pot recently (and how the hell am I going to do that unless I was in view of a surveillance camera the entire day?). Under Oklahoma law, it's not on the prosecution to prove that you were impaired, but on you to prove that you weren't.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 01, 2011, 03:57:17 PM
Motor skills aren't near as impaired under the influence of pot, so not as easy to tell on a FST. Generally someone won't have trouble balancing on one foot, walking a straight line, reciting the alphabet, etc. unless they just finished off a whole joint of some really potent one hit wonder. However, it can affect judgement, make a person easily distracted, and give a false sense of increased mental acuity.
Just like talking on a cell phone while driving.
Quote from: AquaMan on August 01, 2011, 05:46:00 PM
Just like talking on a cell phone while driving.
Indeed. Or texting or playing Farmville, or Facebooking.
Nathan, you got me curious, as the way you are thinking of a marijuana test as being a go/no-go rather than a test of concentrations like a BAC test. I'd never really given it serious thought. That made me do some digging. According to NORML, they say a urine test will indicate use for weeks, a blood test is much "better gauge for current impairment".
Quote"BLOOD TESTS: In some situations, including accidents and roadside sobriety checks, blood tests may be used. Blood tests are a much better gauge of current impairment than urine tests because they detect the actual presence of THC in the system; however, they can be sensitive to other metabolites as well. Blood tests generally register positive for just a few hours after smoking, though heavy chronic smokers may be positive for a couple of days. Less sensitive are saliva tests, which register positive for about 2-4 hours after smoking. If you have used marijuana in the last few days but are not currently under the influence, you should insist on a blood (or saliva) test instead of a urine test if at all possible, since you are more likely to turn up clean. On the other hand, if you have smoked recently, you may do better to take a urine test, since this will at least leave open the question as to whether you were under the influence. Also, urine doesn't turn positive until several minutes after smoking."
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4934
Another reason not to use marijuana in this state - if he had just been sloppy drunk at a .15 or .2, he would be walking around a free man today!
Interesting how some years back a former Oklahoma congressman from Stillwater rammed his car into the back of a car waiting to make a left turn on a highway. The impact drove the car into the path of an incoming car, killing two people and leaving children orphaned. Yet, the former congressman didn't have to spend a day in prison. I think rumor had it that he had been talking on his cell phone.
And drunk.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 17, 2011, 03:34:11 PM
Watkins was NOT drunk at the time.
If he was, and a dead girl was discovered in his car at the bottom of a river, he could be a Senator from Oklahoma.
Absolutely agree, and you anti-Obama posters should have the same stance of projecting the costs of housing a prisoner for every prison cell built in Oklahoma. Every cell constructed is future government spending, if not actual indebtedness.
90% of what we send people to prison for is ludicrous (not the rapper, but perhaps in some cases).
Quote from: Conan71 on August 01, 2011, 03:57:17 PM
Motor skills aren't near as impaired under the influence of pot, so not as easy to tell on a FST. Generally someone won't have trouble balancing on one foot, walking a straight line, reciting the alphabet, etc. unless they just finished off a whole joint of some really potent one hit wonder. However, it can affect judgement, make a person easily distracted, and give a false sense of increased mental acuity.
An interesting point about Field Sobriety Tests is that LEO fraternities advice their officers never to submit to one themselves. The reason being the "test" is subjective and designed to produce only one outcome. I have heard this personally from more than one officer, and the advice seems to be adhered to:
A police officer who was arrested on a drunken-driving complaint has a record of alcohol-related arrests and was in a traffic accident in July, a published report shows.
Sirpless smelled of alcohol, was unsteady on his feet and refused to take a field sobriety test, police reported. http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=070913_1_A18_spanc78751
Officer Danny Bean told investigators that he drank two beers before heading home in his department- issued squad car, Palmer said. He reportedly knocked over a power pole and crashed into a security gate as he left the (police) facility at 6066 E. 66th St. North. The department's Internal Affairs Unit found that Bean was not given a field sobriety test and that his blood-alcohol level was never measured.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090425_11_A11_Drinki368092
Quote from: Conan71 on August 17, 2011, 03:34:11 PM
Watkins was NOT drunk at the time.
What was his excuse then? He just "missed" that car parked in front of him with the brake lights lit and the turn signal on??
Maybe he was just texting....
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on August 18, 2011, 07:57:56 PM
What was his excuse then? He just "missed" that car parked in front of him with the brake lights lit and the turn signal on??
Maybe he was just texting....
Either that or dialing a number. It's scary how many crashes are being caused by inattentive driving related to cell phone use.
In addition, if you are involved in a fatality crash in Oklahoma, you get a blood test, doesn't matter who you are and whether you survived or are killed in the crash. It's the law.
And you think Wes Watkins couldn't make sure that blood test was positive?? Ahhh...what wonderful things those rose colored glasses are...
So much for reality.
In addition to the tens of billions the Fed would save, state and local guvermints would benefit, too. But then, that would hurt the economy, wouldn't it?? All that reduced spending staying in the bank accounts of taxpayers...
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A42000
I was just reading this over lunch. According to Arnold Hamilton, it will cost over $50mm for Oklahoma to house 48 people imprisoned with no-parole life sentences on drug charges.
I really don't have a problem incarcerating someone at the head of a cartel, like George Jung, for life but bit players shouldn't be getting terminal sentences. People imprisoned ONLY for use don't belong in a prison unless that was a related charge to another felony.
Happened to drive by Wes Watkins lake the other day in my travels. How about that? His own lake!!! Kewl!!
Just what I have ranted about since 1965. We keep doing the same thing - for the last 100 years!! - and expect different results. That is insanity! (Insanity - see "voting for Jim Inhofe" in the dictionary.)
Plus, it prevents us from ever becoming energy independent and self-sufficient. Just another key part of the Big Plan by the PuppetMasters.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 24, 2011, 03:08:22 PM
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A42000
I was just reading this over lunch. According to Arnold Hamilton, it will cost over $50mm for Oklahoma to house 48 people imprisoned with no-parole life sentences on drug charges.
I really don't have a problem incarcerating someone at the head of a cartel, like George Jung, for life but bit players shouldn't be getting terminal sentences. People imprisoned ONLY for use don't belong in a prison unless that was a related charge to another felony.
It would be interesting to see that if those 48 people were going to be released how many people would write to the governor to protest over it. My guess, very few.
Quote from: DanoDan on September 03, 2011, 01:32:33 AM
It would be interesting to see that if those 48 people were going to be released how many people would write to the governor to protest over it. My guess, very few.
Don't underestimate Oklahomans... ;)
I saw a commercial this morning talking about the futility of spending so much money on new prisons and not enough on education in OK.
Anyone know who's running them? I was in and out of consciousness on the treadmill.
Immigrants prove big business for prison companies
http://news.yahoo.com/immigrants-prove-big-business-prison-companies-084353195.html (http://news.yahoo.com/immigrants-prove-big-business-prison-companies-084353195.html)
QuoteMIAMI (AP) — The U.S. is locking up more illegal immigrants than ever, generating lucrative profits for the nation's largest prison companies, and an Associated Press review shows the businesses have spent tens of millions of dollars lobbying lawmakers and contributing to campaigns.
The cost to American taxpayers is on track to top $2 billion for this year, and the companies are expecting their biggest cut of that yet in the next few years thanks to government plans for new facilities to house the 400,000 immigrants detained annually.
After a decade of expansion, the sprawling, private system runs detention centers everywhere from a Denver suburb to an industrial area flanking Newark's airport, and is largely controlled by just three companies.
The growth is far from over, despite the sheer drop in illegal immigration in recent years.
In 2011, nearly half the beds in the nation's civil detention system were in private facilities with little federal oversight, up from just 10 percent a decade ago.
The companies also have raked in cash from subsidiaries that provide health care and transportation. And they are holding more immigrants convicted of federal crimes in their privately-run prisons.
The financial boom, which has helped save some of these companies from the brink of bankruptcy, has occurred even though federal officials acknowledge privatization isn't necessarily cheaper.
This seismic shift toward a privatized system happened quietly. While Congress' unsuccessful efforts to overhaul immigration laws drew headlines and sparked massive demonstrations, lawmakers' negotiations to boost detention dollars received far less attention.
The industry's giants — Corrections Corporation of America, The GEO Group, and Management and Training Corp. — have spent at least $45 million combined on campaign donations and lobbyists at the state and federal level in the last decade, the AP found.
CCA and GEO, who manage most private detention centers, insist they aren't trying to influence immigration policy to make more money, and their lobbying and campaign donations have been legal.
"As a matter of long-standing corporate policy, CCA does not lobby on issues that would determine the basis for an individual's detention or incarceration," CCA spokesman Steve Owen said in an email to the AP. The company has a website dedicated to debunking such allegations.
GEO, which was part of The Wackenhut Corp. security firm until 2003, and Management and Training Corp. declined repeated interview requests.
Advocates for immigrants are skeptical of claims that the lobbying is not meant to influence policy.
"That's a lot of money to listen quietly," said Peter Cervantes-Gautschi, who has helped lead a campaign to encourage large banks and mutual funds to divest from the prison companies.
The detention centers are located in cities and remote areas alike, often in low-slung buildings surrounded by chain-link fences and razor wire. U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agents detain men, women and children suspected of violating civil immigration laws at these facilities. Most of those held at the 250 sites nationwide are illegal immigrants awaiting deportation, but some green card holders, asylum seekers and others are also there.
The total average nightly cost to taxpayers to detain an illegal immigrant, including health care and guards' salaries, is about $166, ICE confirmed only after the AP calculated that figure and presented it to the agency.
That's up from $80 in 2004. ICE said the $80 didn't include all of the same costs but declined to provide details.
Pedro Guzman is among those who have passed through the private detention centers. He was brought to the U.S. by his Guatemalan mother at age 8. He was working and living here legally under temporary protected status but was detained after missing an appearance for an asylum application his mother had filed for him. Officials ordered him deported.
Although he was married to a U.S. citizen, ICE considered him a flight risk and locked him up in 2009: first at a private detention facility run by CCA in Gainesville, Ga., and eventually at CCA's Stewart Detention Center, south of Atlanta. Guzman spent 19 months in Stewart until he was finally granted legal permanent residency.
"It's a millionaire's business, and they are living off profits from each one of the people who go through there every single night," said Guzman, now a cable installer in Durham, N.C. "It's our money that we earn as taxpayers every day that goes to finance this."
The federal government stepped up detentions of illegal immigrants in the 1990s, as the number of people crossing the border soared. In 1996, Congress passed a law requiring many more illegal immigrants be locked up. But it wasn't until 2005 — as the corrections companies' lobbying efforts reached their zenith — that ICE got a major boost. Between 2005 and 2007, the agency's budget jumped from $3.5 billion to $4.7 billion, adding more than $5 million for custody operations.
Dora Schriro, who in 2009 reviewed the nation's detention system at the request of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, said nearly every aspect had been outsourced.
"ICE was always relying on others for responsibilities that are fundamentally those of the government," said Schriro, now the New York City Correction Commissioner. "If you don't have the competency to know what is a fair price to ask and negotiate the most favorable rates for the best service, then the likelihood that you are going to overspend is greater."
Private companies argue they can save Americans money by running the centers more cheaply.
Pablo Paez, a spokesman for Boca Raton, Fla.-based GEO, said in an email his company supports public-private partnerships which "have been demonstrated to achieve significant cost savings for the taxpayers." He declined to answer specific questions.
But ICE Executive Associate Director for Enforcement and Removal Operations Gary Mead said the government has never studied whether privatizing immigrant detention saves money.
"They are not our most expensive, they are not our cheapest" facilities, he said. "At some point cost cannot be the only factor."
One fundamental difference between private detention facilities and their publicly-run counterparts is transparency. The private ones don't have to follow the same public records and access requirements.
President Barack Obama has asked for less detention money this year and encouraged the agency to look at alternatives to locking people up. He also ordered DHS to stop deporting young immigrants brought to the U.S. illegally, which could reduce the number behind bars. Congress, however, can approve more detention spending than DHS requests.
Beyond civil detention centers, private companies are also making more money locking up non-citizens who commit federal crimes.
To deter illegal border crossers, federal prosecutors are increasingly charging immigrants with felonies for repeatedly entering the country without papers. That has led thousands of people convicted of illegal re-entry, as well as more serious federal offenses, to serve time in private prisons built just for them.
A decade ago, more than 3,300 criminal immigrants were sent to private prisons under two 10-year contracts the Federal Bureau of Prisons signed with CCA worth $760 million. Now, the agency is paying the private companies $5.1 billion to hold more than 23,000 criminal immigrants through 13 contracts of varying lengths.
CCA was on the verge of bankruptcy in 2000 due to lawsuits, management problems and dwindling contracts. Last year, the company reaped $162 million in net income. Federal contracts made up 43 percent of its total revenues, in part thanks to rising immigrant detention.
GEO, which cites the immigration agency as its largest client, saw its net income jump from $16.9 million to $78.6 million since 2000.
"Another factor driving growth ... for the private sector is in the area of immigration and illegal immigration specifically," Chief Financial Officer Brian Evans told investors in GEO's 2011 3rd quarter earnings call.
CCA warned in its 2011 annual earnings report that federal policy changes in "illegal immigration could affect the number of persons arrested, convicted, and sentenced, thereby potentially reducing demand for correctional facilities to house them."
Utah-based Management and Training is not publicly held, so it does not post earnings.
At just the federal level, these companies, their political action committees and their employees have spent more than $32 million on lobbying and on campaign contributions since 2000 — with the national political parties getting the largest campaign contributions.
An AP review of Federal Election Commission data found the prison companies and their employees gave to key congressional leaders who control how much money goes to run the nation's detention centers and who influence how many contracts go to the private sector.
James Thurber, head of American University's Center for Congressional & Presidential Studies, said amid the heated national debate over immigration, the companies have been savvy not to donate heavily to those sponsoring legislation, which could spark backlash.
There are more discrete and more powerful ways to influence policy, Thurber said.
"Follow the money," he said. "If the money is being increased significantly for illegal immigration, then that is a shift in policy ... a significant shift."
The top beneficiaries of the campaign contributions include:
— The Republican Party. Its national and congressional committees received around $450,000. Democrats received less than half that.
— Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain. He received $71,000, mostly during his failed presidential bid against Obama, well after he dropped support for a bill that would have given illegal immigrants a path to citizenship and reduced detentions.
— House Speaker John Boehner received $63,000.
—Kentucky U.S. Rep. Hal Rogers received about $59,000. Rogers chaired the first subcommittee on Homeland Security and heads the powerful House Appropriations Committee. He often criticizes ICE for not filling more detention beds.
— Former U.S. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist. He received $58,500. The lawmaker from Tennessee, where CCA is headquartered, led the Senate at the height of the nation's immigrant detention build up from 2003 to 2007.
More than campaign contributions, though, the private prison companies spent most of their money each year on lobbying in Washington, peaking in 2005 when they spent $5 million.
In just 2011, CCA paid the Washington firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld $280,000 in part to "monitor immigration reform," federal reports show.
They also lobbied heavily against a bill that would force them to comply with the same open records requirements governing public facilities.
Owen, the CCA spokesman, said the company ramped up lobbying to acquaint new lawmakers with the industry.
"In recent years, federal elections have been very volatile, resulting in a lot of new faces in Washington," he said. "The result of that volatility means a lot of people at the federal level who may not be familiar with the work we do."
The prison companies' influence at the state level mirrors that in Washington, although the money is even harder to track since many states, such as Arizona and Illinois, where the companies have won lucrative detention contracts, don't require corporations to disclose what they pay lobbyists.
The AP reviewed campaign contribution data from the three companies' political action committees and their employees over the last decade, compiled by the National Institute on Money in State Politics. From 2003 to the first half of 2012, state candidates and political parties in the 50 states received more than $5.32 million.
In the 10 states where the companies' committees and employees contributed the most, the AP found they also spent at least $8 million more lobbying local officials in the last five years alone. It is impossible to know how much of this lobbying money was aimed only at immigrant-related contracts. But that money generally went to states along the border, such as Florida and Texas, which have high numbers of immigrants, as well as states such as Georgia and Louisiana, where large numbers of immigrants also are detained.
ICE has begun providing more oversight as part of the Obama administration's pledge to overhaul the nation's system for jailing immigration offenders. It recently scrapped plans for CCA to build a 1,500-bed immigrant detention center in a high-end Miami suburb following months of local protests.
But it remains committed to adding more private beds. Plans are on track to build or expand private immigration jails in Newark, N.J., in the suburbs of Chicago and along a lonely stretch of California's Mojave Desert
Today the seem less interested in building new prisons as much as taking over existing ones:
As state governments wrestle with massive budget shortfalls, a Wall Street giant is offering a solution: cash in exchange for state property. Prisons, to be exact.
Corrections Corporation of America, the nation's largest operator of for-profit prisons, has sent letters recently to 48 states offering to buy up their prisons as a remedy for "challenging corrections budgets." In exchange, the company is asking for a 20-year management contract, plus an assurance that the prison would remain at least 90 percent full, according to a copy of the letter obtained by The Huffington Post.
The move reflects a significant shift in strategy for the private prison industry, which until now has expanded by building prisons of its own or managing state-controlled prisons. It also represents an unprecedented bid for more control of state prison systems.
Corrections Corporation has been a swiftly growing business, with revenues expanding more than fivefold since the mid-1990s. The company capitalized on the expansion of state prison systems in the '80s and '90s at the height of the so-called 'war on drugs,' contracting with state governments to build or manage new prisons to house an influx of drug offenders. During the past 10 years, it has found new opportunity in the business of locking up undocumented immigrants, as the federal government has contracted with private companies in an aggressive immigrant-detention campaign.
...who then charge $5 per minute for phone calls (and people wonder why guards are so eager to smuggle in cell phones).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/17/prisoners-in-private-georgia-prison_n_1099669.html
But judges are OK with this, as long as they get their kickback:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/private-prison-companies-making-big-bucks-locking-undocumented-immigrants-article-1.1127465
I normally dismiss many of your posts as paranoid, but this particular part of the offer is troubling:
Quoteplus an assurance that the prison would remain at least 90 percent full
That has been the business plan all along. How come it has taken this long to be troubling??
This is why we HAVE a war on drugs - so government can get its bureaucracy (prisons/law enforcement/judicial in this case) to survive and grow. Plus it don't hurt they can throw a bone to DuPont and Hearst (in the case of marijuana). The two main goals of every living entity - survive:grow.
Oklahoma prison system out of beds for female offenders
http://okpolicy.org/in-the-know-oklahoma-prison-system-out-of-beds-for-female-offenders (http://okpolicy.org/in-the-know-oklahoma-prison-system-out-of-beds-for-female-offenders)
QuoteThe Oklahoma Department of Corrections is out of beds for female offenders, DOC Director Justin Jones said Friday. His comments came following a Board of Corrections discussion of the overall prison system population during a monthly meeting in Vinita. Mabel Bassett Correctional Center in McLoud, Eddie Warrior Correctional Center in Taft and Hillside Community Corrections Center in Oklahoma City are pretty much at capacity, Jones said. All three house female offenders. "The key is we are already full," Jones said. "We had been experiencing a downward trend and all of a sudden we are heading back up. That is the key."
Time to start looking at those non-violent offenders? Maybe a non-incarcerations form of corrections?
Prison officials ask for additional $6.4 millionhttp://kwgs.com/post/prison-officials-ask-additional-64-million (http://kwgs.com/post/prison-officials-ask-additional-64-million)
QuoteTULSA, Okla. (AP) — Oklahoma prison officials are asking for $6.4 million in additional funding as the state's prisons near capacity.
Officials say the supplemental funding request is needed to pay for expenses that include the increased use of private prisons and halfway houses.
The state Department of Corrections reports that in October there were almost 800 more inmates than in October 2011. DOC Director Justin Jones told the Tulsa World that state prisons are consistently at 96 to 98 percent capacity — meaning any increase pushes the system to being nearly full.
Oklahoma also has nearly 1,700 convicts in county jails awaiting transportation to the state Department of Corrections when beds become available.
Quote from: Townsend on December 10, 2012, 10:25:12 AM
Oklahoma also has nearly 1,700 convicts in county jails awaiting transportation to the state Department of Corrections when beds become available.
Maintaining people sitting out fines and traffic tickets alongside killers and rapists.
That sounds like a plan, Oklahoma.
/sarcasm
Quote from: patric on December 10, 2012, 10:37:26 AM
Maintaining people sitting out fines and traffic tickets alongside killers and rapists.
That sounds like a plan, Oklahoma.
/sarcasm
from the song;
....you're doing fine, Oklahoma,....Oklahoma, OK!!
Oklahoma Prison Officials Seek Increase in Fundinghttp://kwgs.com/post/oklahoma-prison-officials-seek-increase-funding (http://kwgs.com/post/oklahoma-prison-officials-seek-increase-funding)
QuoteOKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma prison officials want legislators to provide more money for a system that is struggling with overcrowding and turnover among employees.
A legislative budget panel is to hear presentations Thursday in advance of the coming legislative session.
The Department of corrections has struggled to retain prison guards, who often cite the low pay as a reason for leaving their jobs. Prisons in rural counties are particularly hard hit when it comes to turnover.
Many people working as prison guards can double their pay by going to work in the oil fields.
In December, prison officials asked for an additional $6.4 million to accommodate a gain of 800 prisoners over the past year. The money would, in part, go toward paying for private prisons and halfway houses.
Interesting article.
Mending offenses
Oklahoma incarcerates more women per capita than anywhere in the world. TulsaPeople asks, "why?"
http://www.tulsapeople.com/Tulsa-People/March-2013/Mending-offenses/index.php?cparticle=1&siarticle=0#artanc (http://www.tulsapeople.com/Tulsa-People/March-2013/Mending-offenses/index.php?cparticle=1&siarticle=0#artanc)
(http://www.tulsapeople.com/images/2013FIN/03-March/tp%20upload/jail/infographs2-1.jpg)(http://www.tulsapeople.com/images/2013FIN/03-March/tp%20upload/jail/infographs.jpg)
Quote from: Townsend on March 07, 2013, 12:28:15 PM
Interesting article.
Oklahoma incarcerates more women per capita than anywhere in the world. TulsaPeople asks, "why?"
Because we, as a state, are pathetic in WAY too many areas!
Legislators look to add more felonieshttp://woodwardnews.net/local/x624710659/Legislators-look-to-add-more-felonies (http://woodwardnews.net/local/x624710659/Legislators-look-to-add-more-felonies)
QuoteThe recent momentum to reduce Oklahoma's exceptionally high incarceration rate has fizzled out, officials said this week. The Justice Reinvestment Initiative, signed by Gov. Mary Fallin last May, aimed to encourage rehabilitation of nonviolent offenders, lessen the emphasis on prison time and supervise prisoners after release, among other provisions. Last week, less than a year after signing the bipartisan law, Gov. Mary Fallin rejected federal funding to implement the program. Additionally, a grant program from the attorney general to local law enforcement hasn't been implemented and legislators are considering about 10 bills that would increase prison time or create new felonies.
Quote from: Townsend on March 11, 2013, 10:35:59 AM
Legislators look to add more felonies
http://woodwardnews.net/local/x624710659/Legislators-look-to-add-more-felonies (http://woodwardnews.net/local/x624710659/Legislators-look-to-add-more-felonies)
Steele said the reinvestment plan has worked elsewhere, noting Texas tried a similar plan several years ago and was able to close a
prison because of the drop in prisoners.
The Oklahoma Legislature continues to consider more and harsher penalties.
"All of them will pass because no one wants to be viewed as soft on crime," said Sen. Constance Johnson, D-Oklahoma City, who has
voiced concerns with some of the felony proposals.
"We're adding felonies every year," she said, pointing to private prison interests, which have a stake in being full, as a possible
culprit. We cant have the Governess funding any programs that could result in a prison no longer being needed, can we?
...but I didnt see "adultery" on the list of new things that would be felonies, so maybe there's a limit?
Attempts to reform Oklahoma's criminal justice system have long history of failurehttp://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130318_16_A1_OKLAHO206287 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130318_16_A1_OKLAHO206287)
QuoteEfforts to reduce the state's growing prison population go back decades and haven't managed to put much of a dent in the state's prison population. A highly touted criminal justice reform measure passed last session may be yet another failed effort. Last week, the leaders of a working group overseeing the implementation of what is called the Justice Reinvestment Initiative abruptly resigned, pointing fingers at the Governor's Office, which they say is not serious about following through with the law she signed.
Jailed for blogging about prison conditions:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/05/daniel-mcgowan-jailing_n_3021613.html
McGowan was serving out the final months of his seven-year sentence in a Brooklyn halfway house when he was jailed by federal marshals Thursday morning, allegedly for writing a commentary on The Huffington Post critical of a harshly restricted federal prison unit in which he had spent time.
In general, prisoners can be punished for violating a BOP rule that prohibits giving interviews to the news media without official approval. But that rule says nothing about prisoners writing blog posts.
In a statement Thursday, McGowan's lawyers at the Center for Constitutional Rights said, "If this is indeed a case of retaliation for writing an article about the BOP retaliating against his free speech while he was in prison, it is more than ironic, it is an outrage."
It's an oldie, but still a goody:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-7-2006/uncaged-heat
Quote from: Vashta Nerada on May 07, 2013, 03:38:20 PM
It's an oldie, but still a goody:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-7-2006/uncaged-heat
That is brilliant!
OKLAHOMA CITY - Private prison interests have given nearly $200,000 in campaign dollars and gifts to 79 of the 149 members of the state Legislature since 2004, a Tulsa World analysis shows.
From a meal valued at $3.87 for one lawmaker to $22,500 toward T.W. Shannon's Speaker's Ball, private prison and halfway house influence has become well entrenched at the state Capitol.
As the state's prison population has climbed, so has spending on private prisons, which was nearly $73 million last fiscal year, up from slightly more than $57 million in fiscal year 2004.
Since 2004, lobbyists, private prison and halfway house employees have given $375,425 to 165 elected officials and candidates for office.
The contributions and gifts come from lobbyists and others affiliated with Avalon Correctional Services, The GEO Group Inc. and Corrections Corporation of America. All three have operations in the state. The lobbyists' representation is not limited to one private prison or halfway house company. They have contracts to represent dozens of far-ranging interests.
House Speaker T.W. Shannon, R-Lawton, is the top recipient of private prison-linked dollars. Shannon has received $34,950. The sum includes $22,500 donated by three private prison companies to fund the 2013 Speaker's Ball.
Gov. Mary Fallin ranks No. 2 in private prison dollars. Private prison interests, which include employees, political action committees and lobbyists employed by the companies, have donated $33,608 to her campaigns.
Senate Appropriations Chairman Clark Jolley, R-Edmond, is the top recipient of private prison and halfway house dollars in the Senate and No. 3 recipient among elected officials overall. Jolley has reported receipts totaling $30,450 toward his campaigns.
Republicans, who control houses of the Legislature and all elected state offices, have received about 83 percent of the contributions from private prisons since 2004.
Steve Owen, a spokesman for Corrections Corporation of America, said lobbyists who work for the company do not make donations on the company's behalf. The company has four private prisons in the state, two of which are under contract with Oklahoma. Another one houses California inmates. The fourth is not operational.
Sen. Constance Johnson, D-Forest Park, has been a longtime, largely unsuccessful advocate for sentencing reform and opponent of longer sentences and additional penalties.
"I am shocked but not surprised," Johnson said of the donations. "My take is that what I have noticed about how the policies are flowing, pro-private prisons, pro-enhanced felonies, the thing I stand up and argue about all the time. Follow the money. This whole notion of special interests having undue influence on the legislative process, this is proof."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Lawmakers_benefit_from_private_prison_donations/20130519_11_A1_Bodyte389065
Too Many Local Prisons Taint Jury Pools
WASHINGTON – The proliferation of prisons has poisoned the region's potential jury pool, according to defense attorneys for the two inmates accused of killing a U.S. Penitentiary guard in 2008.
Citing past acquittals of prison guards accused of wrongdoing, as well as the clout of the state prison guards' union, defense attorneys in new legal filings allege that a "dysfunctional" relationship now interferes with "the jury pool and justice" throughout the Valley. The assertion sets the stage for an anticipated formal request to move trials scheduled to take place next year.
"There is a significant demographic bias in the Eastern District of California that manifests itself in litigation involving correctional officers and the operation of prisons," attorneys for Joseph Cabrera Sablan and James Ninete Leon Guerrero asserted in a filing Thursday.
As evidence, the defense attorneys cited the 2010 acquittal of former Atwater lieutenant Eric A. McEachern on charges of beating an inmate with a flashlight, as well as a 2003 case in which several guards were not found liable for setting up the rape of an inmate at the California State Prison at Corcoran.
A jury pool "with this history" must be carefully evaluated in determining whether a change of trial venue is necessary, the defense attorneys argue.
"The other problem is the existence of a significant bias in the community that arises out of the Eastern District's saturation by local, state and federal correctional institutions and industries serving those institutions, their employees and the families of the employees," the defense attorneys wrote.
The Fresno Division of the Eastern District is home to 20 state and federal correctional facilities and three large county jails, the attorneys noted. The Sacramento Division includes 11 state and federal correctional facilities, as well as the headquarters of what the attorneys call the "large and powerful" California Correctional Peace Officers Association.
The latest victim in Governor Fallin's Prisons For Profit: The state director of prisons.
OKLAHOMA CITY - Department of Corrections Director Justin Jones is resigning effective Oct. 1.
Jones has run afoul of policy-makers who want to put more state inmates in private prisons.
"You know, just because it is legal doesn't make it ethically and morally right for shareholders to make a profit off of incarceration of our fellow citizens," Jones said.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Oklahoma_Dept_of_Correction_director_submits_resignation/20130618_11_A1_ULNSbm124877?subj=12&Cont=Cov&Cont=Cov
Quote
A national report released Thursday details how private prison operators frequently have "lockup quotas" and "low-crime taxes" built into the language of their contracts.
http://tulsaworld.com/lockupquotas
The report by In the Public Interest, a nonprofit research and policy institute, illustrates how many contracts for private prison operators feature language guaranteeing 80 percent to 100 percent prison occupancy and forcing taxpayers to pay penalties for empty beds.
Of the 62 private prison contracts that the group received and analyzed, nearly two-thirds - or 65 percent - include occupancy guarantees and force taxpayers to pay for empty prison beds if the lockup quota is not met. These policies result in taxpayers essentially paying more money to house inmates even when crime decreases, becoming a de facto low-crime tax, according to the report.
Lockup quotas in private prison contracts range between 80 and 100 percent. Arizona, Louisiana, Oklahoma and Virginia have the highest occupancy guarantee requirements, with quotas requiring between 95 and 100 percent occupancy. Three of the Oklahoma prisons included in the data - Cimarron in Cushing, Davis in Holdenville and the Lawton Correctional Facility - have a 98 percent occupancy guarantee provision, according to the report.
Both Cimarron and Davis are operated by the Corrections Corporation of America, Lawton is operated by the GEO Group.
Former Oklahoma Department of Corrections Director Justin Jones was among a group of experts who commented on the findings in a conference call Thursday.
"What corrections should not be is a turnkey for-profit machine," he said. "And that's exactly that we've turned them into when we guarantee occupancy, with no requirement to produce results."
In 2012, CCA, the largest for-profit private prison company in the country, sent a letter to 48 state governors offering to buy their public prisons. The corporation offered to buy and operate those states' prisons in exchange for a 20-year contract, which would include a 90 percent occupancy rate guarantee for the entire term.
The institute recommends that governments ban "lockup quota" language from contracts with private prison providers to protect the taxpayers' interests, she said.
"They have gamed the system and tied the hand of policy makers," she said. "We urge lawmakers nationwide to end this practice."
Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin could not be reached for comment, a spokesman said.
The private prison industry relies on rising numbers of inmates to increase profits, and some states - including Oklahoma - have lobbied against justice reform efforts to ensure it won't affect their companies' bottom lines, according to Jones.
The report outlines several statements made by CCA regarding their concerns about justice reforms, including this from its 2010 annual report: "The demand for our facilities and services could be adversely affected by the relaxation of enforcement efforts, leniency in conviction or parole standards and sentencing practices or through the decriminalization of certain activities that are currently proscribed by our criminal laws."
The Center for Responsive Politics reports that CCA spent $17.4 million in lobbying expenditures from 2002 through 2012, while GEO Group spent $2.5 million from 2004 to 2012. According to the report, CCA spent $1.9 million in political contributions from 2003 to 2012, and Geo Group spent $2.9 million during the same time period. Both own and operate multiple prisons in Oklahoma.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Report_Lockup_quotas_in_prison_contracts_become_low/20130920_11_A1_CUTLIN182989
Lawmaker urges more use of private prisons to relieve pressure on Oklahoma Department of Corrections
"It is going to cost money to fix this," Rep. Gus Blackwell, R-Laverne, said during a break in an interim study on the Department of Corrections.
Sean Wallace, executive director of Oklahoma Corrections Professionals, said he didn't think expanding the use of private prison beds was the answer. The state locks up too many low-level, non-violent offenders, he said.
Correctional Officer Shaleen Day said her facility, Kate Barnard Community Corrections Center in Oklahoma City, is so short-staffed that contraband has been a problem, adding that there is no way to prevent it.
Contraband? How does that happen?
A Tulsa County Jail detention officer was arrested Saturday after an inmate reported receiving packages from the jailer containing marijuana, tobacco and a cellphone.
Soooo, more dependance on private corporations with little oversight and less accountability is the solution?
Quote from: patric on November 22, 2013, 02:13:57 PM
Sean Wallace, executive director of Oklahoma Corrections Professionals, said he didn't think expanding the use of private prison beds was the answer. The state locks up too many low-level, non-violent offenders, he said.
DING...DING...DING!!! We have a winner! Finally someone who gets it!
Prisons are amongst legislators favorite bacon. I'm sure private correction companies give them handsome contributions and possible employment post-legislature as a lobbyist. As well, one of their close friends back home in the district can sell that fallow parcel of $1000 an acre farm land for quite a bit more. Plus he gets an atta-boy for how many ever locals they end up employing at the new facility, including his brother-in-law who gets a cushy administrative job out of it.
Department of Correction's 509 Million Dollar Requesthttp://kwgs.com/post/department-corrections-509-million-dollar-request (http://kwgs.com/post/department-corrections-509-million-dollar-request)
QuoteThe Oklahoma Department of Corrections says it needs 45.7 million additional dollars. Corrections Interim director, Ed Evans, presented the budget figures to the State Senate Public Safety Appropriations Committee.
"Thirty-one point five million would go towards funding FY-2014 contracted bed space already in use and anticipated to remain in use," Evan says. "Fourteen point two million would be used for salary adjustments that would aid in the retention and recruitment of needed staff, in particular correctional officers."
That would bring this year's total budget request to 509 million dollars. Evens says as of today, there are over 26 thousand inmates incarcerated by the state.
His proposal includes over 14 million dollars to address low pay and a high turnover rate among guards.
"I believe it's about 33% or 35% of those officers leave the agency that are within their first 12 months," Evans says.
Evans also requested 13 million dollars in supplemental funding to this year's budget. Those dollars would be used to reimburse counties for holding state inmates.
Cut the budget in half. Transfer the savings to education. Keep the really bad guys in there but open the gates for the low level and white collar guys with the provision that they move to Texas or some other southern state. Kick the private operators out too.
Quote from: AquaMan on January 29, 2014, 12:15:11 PM
Kick the private operators out too.
Oh surely not... they contribute so much to our economy:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/06/private-prisons-oklahoma_n_4548883.html
/s
Whoever said crime doesn't pay is not an investor in private prisons or a politician in OK. Moral travesty.
The winds of change. . .
Today, by a vote of 13 to 5, the Senate Judiciary Committee approved what the Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) calls "the biggest overhaul in federal drug sentencing in decades." The Smarter Sentencing Act, introduced by Sens. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.) and Mike Lee (R-Utah) last July, would cut mandatory minimum sentences in half for some drug offenses, make the reduced crack penalties enacted in 2010 retroactive, and expand the category of defendants eligible for sentencing below the mandatory minimums. "The Smarter Sentencing Act is the most significant piece of criminal justice reform to make it to the Senate floor in several years," says Laura W. Murphy, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Washington Legislative Office.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/01/30/senate-judiciary-committee-approves-majo
Still has to go to the house? Anyway, Fallin and friends will again opt out and pass legislation making enforcement in Oklahoma a crime.
High Female Lockup Rate Targeted in Billhttp://kwgs.com/post/high-female-lockup-rate-targeted-bill (http://kwgs.com/post/high-female-lockup-rate-targeted-bill)
QuoteOKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A plan to target Oklahoma's highest-in-the-nation female incarceration rate with a prison diversion pilot program in Tulsa has unanimously passed the Oklahoma Senate.
The Senate voted Wednesday for the bill by Republican Sen. Kim David of Porter that targets women convicted of drug or other nonviolent crimes. David says female offenders first must enter a plea of guilty, which a judge can withhold and waive if the woman completes the 12-to-18-month program.
David says the participants must stay sober and keep a job to remain in the program, which also reunites the women with their children.
David says she was particularly touched by the testimony that some of the women in the program delivered during a Senate committee hearing.
Senate Kills bill for Aging Prisoner Releasehttp://kwgs.com/post/senate-kills-bill-aging-prisoner-release (http://kwgs.com/post/senate-kills-bill-aging-prisoner-release)
QuoteOKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A bill to allow some aging prisoners to be released from prison early has been shot down in the Oklahoma Senate.
The Senate voted 29-14 on Wednesday against the Parole of Aging Prisoners Act. The bill would have allowed the state Pardon and Parole Board to parole prisoners who are 65-years-old or older if they have served 10 years in prison or at least one-third of their sentence.
Sex offenders or those convicted of one of about two dozen crimes that require inmates to serve 85 percent of their sentences would not have been eligible for the program. The bill specifically targeted inmates who pose what was called "minimal public safety risks."
Oklahoma has one of the highest rates of incarceration in the nation.
Private prisons decide this was bad for business?
Quote from: Gaspar on January 30, 2014, 01:20:40 PM
The winds of change. . .
Today, by a vote of 13 to 5, the Senate Judiciary Committee approved what the Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) calls "the biggest overhaul in federal drug sentencing in decades." The Smarter Sentencing Act, introduced by Sens. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.) and Mike Lee (R-Utah) last July, would cut mandatory minimum sentences in half for some drug offenses, make the reduced crack penalties enacted in 2010 retroactive, and expand the category of defendants eligible for sentencing below the mandatory minimums. "The Smarter Sentencing Act is the most significant piece of criminal justice reform to make it to the Senate floor in several years," says Laura W. Murphy, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Washington Legislative Office.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/01/30/senate-judiciary-committee-approves-majo
So is the War On Drugs about to become unprofitable?
Is that why OBNDD is starting to get into the War On Human Trafficking business?
Got to stay relevant... and funded.
Oklahoma House, Senate Panels Approve Prison Fundinghttp://kwgs.com/term/local-regional (http://kwgs.com/term/local-regional)
(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201307/McAlester_Prison.jpg)
QuoteOKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — House and Senate legislative committees have approved $13 million in supplemental funding to help Oklahoma's prison system pay for operational costs for the rest of the fiscal year that ends June 30.
Budget panels in both the House and Senate on Monday approved a bill that authorizes the $13 million and gives the Department of Corrections more authority to tap an internal agency revolving account.
The bill still must be approved by the full House and Senate and signed by the governor.
Norman Republican Rep. Scott Martin who sponsored the bill in the House says the money will be used to pay for private prison beds, a backup of inmates in county jails, and inmate medical services.
DOC Director Robert Patton says he appreciates the additional funding.
Deputies trained inmates for fights, bet on them, official says
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-sf-staged-inmate-fights-20150326-story.html
Just like Tulsa deputies at Avalon downtown, but without the global publicity.
-- Small world --
Justice Department Will Phase Out Its Use Of Private Prisonshttp://publicradiotulsa.org/post/justice-department-will-phase-out-its-use-private-prisons (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/justice-department-will-phase-out-its-use-private-prisons)
QuoteU.S. Justice Department officials plan to phase out their use of private prisons to house federal inmates, reasoning that the contract facilities offer few benefits for public safety or taxpayers.
In making the decision, Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates cited new findings by the Justice Department's inspector general, who concluded earlier this month that a pool of 14 privately contracted prisons reported more incidents of inmate contraband, higher rates of assaults and more uses of force than facilities run by the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
"They simply do not provide the same level of correctional services, programs and resources; they do not save substantially on costs; and ... they do not maintain the same level of safety and security," Yates wrote in a memo Thursday.
At their peak, contract prisons housed approximately 30,000 federal inmates. By May 2017, that number will have dropped by more than half, to 14,000, Yates wrote. The Bureau of Prisons tends to use contract facilities to confine inmates who require only low security and who tend to be in the country illegally. The U.S. government spent $639 million on those facilities in fiscal year 2014, according to the Inspector General report, in payments to three companies: Corrections Corporation of America, GEO Group, and Management and Training Corp.
The Justice Department announcement will not touch the vast majority of prisoners in the country who are incarcerated by state and local authorities. But federal officials hope their decision will be a model across the correctional field.
Last month, the DOJ declined to renew a contract for 1,200 prison beds in a private facility. And it is making changes to a new contract bid to reduce the size of demand there, too.
In a blog post to department employees, the deputy attorney general pointed out that the federal prison population has been dropping overall, to fewer than 195,000 inmates, because of a shift in how low-level, nonviolent drug criminals are treated. Yates did not shut the door on demand for private contract facilities in the future, however, and a new presidential administration could handle the issue differently.
Marc Mauer, executive director of The Sentencing Project, nonetheless said the Justice Department announcement represented a "major milestone in the movement away from mass incarceration."
"It has been a stain on our democracy to permit profit-making entities to be handed the responsibility of making determinations of individual liberty," Mauer said in a prepared statement. "Today's action moves us closer to a moment when government can once again assume this important responsibility."
I wonder if this will change anything in Oklahoma...it always seemed so strange to have "for profit" prisons. How do you lobby for that? Keep pot illegal and keep guns easy to access for felons?
There's no way our prison system should be privatized. More government failure. Glad the Obama administration is calling a spade for what it is.
This is only Federal prisons, not state. I suspect Oklahoma will keep up the status quo with their DOC guests.
I will say that privatization always kind of sounds like a good idea, but only from a financial prospective. It has basically turned our congressmen into money managers instead of legislators.
Without legislative action, Oklahoma will need three new prisons during the next 10 years
http://newsok.com/without-legislative-action-oklahoma-will-need-three-new-prisons-during-the-next-10-years/article/5530785
Quote from: erfalf on August 19, 2016, 07:03:51 AM
I will say that privatization always kind of sounds like a good idea, but only from a financial prospective. It has basically turned our congressmen into money managers instead of legislators.
There are certain functions of government that should never be privatized. Prisons is one. Water and sewer service is another. Internet. Roads. Bridges. Law enforcement. Armed forces (mercenaries never work out well for a civilization.) Health/drug research.
Anything that directly affects the overall well being of the population and adversely affects the concept of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." for more than 50% of the population.
Even natural gas and electricity are arguably at least a quasi-governmental function that should be operated at most from a co-op perspective. And the whole idea behind the creation of FERC and allowing vital commodities to be traded in an options market environment - insanity. Right up there with the housing financial instruments that brought us the last near depression. No excuse except to allow billionaires to continue their rape/pillage efforts on the economy.
Quote from: patric on December 14, 2016, 12:23:46 PM
Without legislative action, Oklahoma will need three new prisons during the next 10 years
http://newsok.com/without-legislative-action-oklahoma-will-need-three-new-prisons-during-the-next-10-years/article/5530785
Then what exactly was the purpose of the SQ's which just passed in November regarding these very reforms which are supposed to limit the number of people being incarcerated and decrease the prison populations?
Did I miss something?
Heironymous - you pretty well just described Cuba or North Korea. All "essential" services and commodities are government run. Not even France or the Nordic countries goes as far as you are arguing for.
I mean, good for you. We need some old school pinkos to move the overall needle to the left. But damn! ;)
Quote from: cannon_fodder on December 14, 2016, 01:50:36 PM
Heironymous - you pretty well just described Cuba or North Korea. All "essential" services and commodities are government run. Not even France or the Nordic countries goes as far as you are arguing for.
I mean, good for you. We need some old school pinkos to move the overall needle to the left. But damn! ;)
No. I didn't. I was describing an America where everybody gets to participate in the American Dream. But according to what you are saying, it's ok for Corporate America to get all the perks, but not the other 99%+ or us??
Do you really think private water/sewer service is better? Or police? Prisons. Road/bridge construction. Mercs over US Armed forces? Did we learn NOTHING from the Romans?? We even got rid of the draft, against the wishes of our military experts.
Health and drug research has been funded Federally for decades! It is the ONLY way the vast majority of new drugs have been brought to market in this country. None of those drugs we are bombarded with ads on tv were developed on 'spec'. We paid for most of it. And yeah, I got the people working in Eli Lilly who know and have spilled the beans! And some of them were at other drug purveyors before that. Epipen is a prime example that has been in the news this year.
What else was there? Well, internet is now being brought to many cities by the cities themselves since they have found that if you are gonna require kids in school to do research on the internet, but not provide the resources, the class divide is real and all too painfully obvious between the haves and the have nots.
Don't really care if gas/electric are private - but don't go giving corporate socialism in the form of allowing these monopolies to run rampant. In particular in the way I mentioned - creation of FERC and allowing the whole process of energy become just another options on the commodity markets. We see how well that works with the example of Enron jerking the energy market around, with a little help from our home grown buddies, Devon and Williams Co also participating. Much bigger communistic approach than anything I mentioned. Along with all the other corporate welfare forms we have in this country. Corporate Welfare is touted and promoted by they "Trump Ilk" as somehow being Capitalism and good for the country...well except for the fact that it isn't. And isn't. Takes me full circle back to the statement about;
"Anything that directly affects the overall well being of the population and
adversely affects the concept of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." for more than 50% of the population."
If we aren't gonna balance it out for the rest of us, then at least pull them back to neutral.
But that would mean the 1/2%'ers wouldn't get their big payoffs...can't have that!
Tag. You're it....
Not sure where to start... so I will regress. Not even the most socialist countries take it as far as you are advocating.
For the most part, I'm neutral on privatization of government services. It is not inherently good or inherently bad. In some instances it is great, in others it is an utter disaster. Sometimes those norms hold over industries or services, sometimes one government can provide a service way better than private industry while another government cannot. Examples:
The American hybrid system for electric utilities works fairly well. We get more power, more consistently, to more people, more affordably than any other nation. It is relatively efficient and the overall service is spectacular. Yet private industry absorbs the risk and is allowed to make a marginal profit. Same for our refuse collection.
Water systems are largely government run. We have among the best water in the world - BUT, political pressure has caused those systems to degrade as a cost "saving" measure. The result is the need for massive investment in the near future to avert additional crisis like we saw in Flint. Or, for that matter, frequent ruptures and costly repairs like we see in Tulsa.
Most of our infrastructure is built by private contractors - allowing many entities to bid on a job. Lets see who can do it well and the most efficient. If the government was given a monopoly on such projects, the efficiency inevitably declines.
Healthcare is messed up - I readily acknowledge that. We are really bad at preventative care, healthy lifestyles, and at keeping costs reasonable. But the US private healthcare industry does a better job on the technical and innovative aspects of medicine than anyone else r (yes, universities and grants do a lot of good work also. But private dollars overwhelm public ones). Cuba or Canada, with their excellent healthcare services, are not providing technological or pharmaceutical innovations. In fact, the US far and away spends more money on R&D than the rest of the world in most fields. (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GB.XPD.RSDV.GD.ZS?year_high_desc=false)
Certainly internet innovation is a great example of the private sector taking a government idea running away with it. Without government research, there would be no internet. Without the private sector taking it up, the internet would remain a research and military curiosity. The actual utility aspect of it is more complicated, and I agree with the Obama administration that it should be treated like a utility and carefully scrutinized for abuse of monopoly power. I have no problem with municipal coops entering the marketplace if that's what it takes to keep competition moving forward. (Two or three companies coming to dominate their respective exclusive zones is bad for innovation, bad for progress, and bad for consumers)
Some things I am extremely leery about being private: security at the Courthouse for example (either there is a real need for real security, or there isn't), I think private "security contractors" in war zones or to protect US military basis is a horrible idea, and I think private prisons are an idea worth examining - that have now been examined and turned out to be bad policy. It creates a profit motive to lobby for mass incarceration. When closing a prison is "bad for business" there are business incentives contrary to public good. So the idea should be rolled back. That business incentive vs. public good applies to many, many areas of privatization (see, e.g., privatizing Social Security).
So private/public is a debate that needs to be had, and needs to be updated frequently. But historically, when the government monopolizes something it becomes inefficient and stagnant. That holds true over and over, and it isn't likely to change. So if/when the government monopolizes something or decides to enter the marketplace, there needs to be a good reason and close inspection.
Here's my question:
If a private company can step in, run a prison, and make real profit with zero in subsidies how can the operate a prison cheaper than the government can?
If they pay lower wages than the state to make a profit then it seems they would have a staffing shortage. If it's economy of scale on purchases, it would have to only be a marginal gain in profit considering the purchasing power state government would generally have. Many state governments will operate a system much like GSA does- if you want to sell us floor wax and toilet cleaner, you have to give us a discount spread over given quantities.
In my personal experience, I worked for a Fortune 500 which had such interface with city, state, and the GSA. I can positively say that a large health facility company like Columbia HCA didn't get a better discount than the GSA or that one of the private prison operators didn't get a better pricing structure for supplies than the federal prison system.
I'd love to know how this is possible.
Quote from: Conan71 on December 16, 2016, 10:40:01 AM
Here's my question:
If a private company can step in, run a prison, and make real profit with zero in subsidies how can the operate a prison cheaper than the government can?
If they pay lower wages than the state to make a profit then it seems they would have a staffing shortage. If it's economy of scale on purchases, it would have to only be a marginal gain in profit considering the purchasing power state government would generally have. Many state governments will operate a system much like GSA does- if you want to sell us floor wax and toilet cleaner, you have to give us a discount spread over given quantities.
In my personal experience, I worked for a Fortune 500 which had such interface with city, state, and the GSA. I can positively say that a large health facility company like Columbia HCA didn't get a better discount than the GSA or that one of the private prison operators didn't get a better pricing structure for supplies than the federal prison system.
I'd love to know how this is possible.
Just my thoughts - overcrowding brings more money per head, so private prisons work on keeping business hot. I'm guessing their lobbying is all about keeping weed illegal and three strikes rule going strong.
Understaffing has been an issue for years with Oklahoma Prisons - I'm guessing private prisons are cool with that, given lower overhead.
Like chicken farms, there is always acceptable cost savings when the product isn't something considered worth protecting.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on December 16, 2016, 09:57:02 AM
Not sure where to start... so I will regress. Not even the most socialist countries take it as far as you are advocating.
For the most part, I'm neutral on privatization of government services. It is not inherently good or inherently bad. In some instances it is great, in others it is an utter disaster. Sometimes those norms hold over industries or services, sometimes one government can provide a service way better than private industry while another government cannot. Examples:
The American hybrid system for electric utilities works fairly well. We get more power, more consistently, to more people, more affordably than any other nation. It is relatively efficient and the overall service is spectacular. Yet private industry absorbs the risk and is allowed to make a marginal profit. Same for our refuse collection.
Water systems are largely government run. We have among the best water in the world - BUT, political pressure has caused those systems to degrade as a cost "saving" measure. The result is the need for massive investment in the near future to avert additional crisis like we saw in Flint. Or, for that matter, frequent ruptures and costly repairs like we see in Tulsa.
Most of our infrastructure is built by private contractors - allowing many entities to bid on a job. Lets see who can do it well and the most efficient. If the government was given a monopoly on such projects, the efficiency inevitably declines.
Healthcare is messed up - I readily acknowledge that. We are really bad at preventative care, healthy lifestyles, and at keeping costs reasonable. But the US private healthcare industry does a better job on the technical and innovative aspects of medicine than anyone else r (yes, universities and grants do a lot of good work also. But private dollars overwhelm public ones). Cuba or Canada, with their excellent healthcare services, are not providing technological or pharmaceutical innovations. In fact, the US far and away spends more money on R&D than the rest of the world in most fields. (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GB.XPD.RSDV.GD.ZS?year_high_desc=false)
Certainly internet innovation is a great example of the private sector taking a government idea running away with it. Without government research, there would be no internet. Without the private sector taking it up, the internet would remain a research and military curiosity. The actual utility aspect of it is more complicated, and I agree with the Obama administration that it should be treated like a utility and carefully scrutinized for abuse of monopoly power. I have no problem with municipal coops entering the marketplace if that's what it takes to keep competition moving forward. (Two or three companies coming to dominate their respective exclusive zones is bad for innovation, bad for progress, and bad for consumers)
Some things I am extremely leery about being private: security at the Courthouse for example (either there is a real need for real security, or there isn't), I think private "security contractors" in war zones or to protect US military basis is a horrible idea, and I think private prisons are an idea worth examining - that have now been examined and turned out to be bad policy. It creates a profit motive to lobby for mass incarceration. When closing a prison is "bad for business" there are business incentives contrary to public good. So the idea should be rolled back. That business incentive vs. public good applies to many, many areas of privatization (see, e.g., privatizing Social Security).
So private/public is a debate that needs to be had, and needs to be updated frequently. But historically, when the government monopolizes something it becomes inefficient and stagnant. That holds true over and over, and it isn't likely to change. So if/when the government monopolizes something or decides to enter the marketplace, there needs to be a good reason and close inspection.
You start by saying these ideas are the most socialist you have ever heard...then agree with most of them! Closet Commie??
Water - as seen by their lead pipe fiasco...the big problem was NOT that it was government entity - it was who was running that entity. And guess which side of the aisle the "cost cutters" were from? Notice how Corpus Christi is having issues this week. The "fails" in these systems are very easily directly connected to the umbrella concept of getting government less involved. Flint directly because of "business" principles applied with NO regard for the human part of it. Cut costs, cut taxes. Corpus will be found to be from dumping by some industry that has been allowed to run rampant due to the overall 'gutting' of the EPA and the lax creation but most especially enforcement of regulations. Similar issues with electric grid - old and decaying much faster than being repaired/replaced. So we can cut taxes some more....
Electric. At one time that was indisputable, but since we have moved more and more toward deregulation, big problems are starting to arise. It does work fairly well, and it also is very much a case of corporate welfare/socialism. And one of the reasons it still works as well as it does is because regulators are still pushing back just a little bit. Relatively efficient - well, that is really open to discussion, since the grid automatically loses about 30% right of the top before one single electron flows in someone's house. That just disappears into the ether as heat. And it is allowed because it is "cost-effective", even though the cost of the extra generation capacity required is hidden not to mention the fact that 30% of the coal and natural gas used is just adding environmental problems without contributing anything to the effort. Hidden cost right up front of 30% - actually more, because of unknown mitigation costs further down the line. As for marginal profit - well it is virtually guaranteed profit and it is obviously good enough that some very big players are drooling all over themselves to get into that guaranteed market.
"Same for our refuse collection." Definitely a hybrid. $15 a month or so for city. Don't know what private costs - haven't used one for longer than I can remember. Some family does and are happy with it. Broken Arrow seems to be very close to that and they provide trash bags for people to use! Owasso $15 a month. Cities do a fine job in the areas they serve - goes again to the whole idea of growth for growth's sake - extending the city beyond where the infrastructure can reasonably be provided....big fail.
Other infrastructure - roads, etc. While much of it is built using contractors - not a problem to me - we have the same issue that affects so much of our life in this country - cut costs for the sake of cutting costs just so we can cut taxes. Trying to run government as a business - just plain stupid. That means lousy Oklahoma style roads. Bridges with holes opening up on a regular basis. Police, fire, etc in decline. While we save our 1/4% on our taxes...Sorry trade, but it's more important the richest among us get the biggest break!
Bottom line - when Bush took over, he gave away the store to the tune of more than half a trillion dollars a year! WAY beyond anything their "saviour" Ronny ever did! We went from roughly a $300+ billion surplus to more than $300 billion deficit after his first round of tax cuts! That's way over half a trillion! And it continued for 10 years because Obama didn't have cojones enough to do what he and every real economist in the world knows to do - let those cuts expire! And they continue in only slightly different form today.
Not even mentioning - well, I guess I will - the several more trillions given to big banks, automakers, and others for bailouts. Oh, yeah, let's not forget the $90 billion given to Halliburton in NO BID contracts just because their CEO happened to be VP. We have the "business plan" of what is gonna happen the next 4 years with Trump. It's what was done during the Bush regime. Only there will be even more of it.
So, if we can afford to give more than $6 trillion dollars to the richest people in the country, then we can spend a few hundred billion on the rest of us for some of the things I have mentioned. It ain't socialism at all. Nor is it communism. It is exactly what I stated in the first post.
"Anything that directly affects the overall well being of the population and adversely affects the concept of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." for more than 50% of the population."
No. I said you want to take the ideas further than any of the successful countries that are often seen as very socialist. If you think any sector of any industry isn't run for the benefit of 50% of the population, the government should take it over. You gave examples that include basically everything.
QuoteAnything that directly affects the overall well being of the population and adversely affects the concept of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." for more than 50% of the population.
What couldn't that encompass?
Socialism isn't a dirty word, the government will run anything and everything it has to for the benefit of the people. But that is exactly what Castro set out to do. Or Mao. Or Chavez. I'm not arguing it is a bad idea in concept, just pointing out that it never seems to work out very well.
Quote from: Townsend on December 16, 2016, 12:15:27 PM
Just my thoughts - overcrowding brings more money per head, so private prisons work on keeping business hot. I'm guessing their lobbying is all about keeping weed illegal and three strikes rule going strong.
Perhaps they are confident there will always be fuel for the fire.
For example: Collinsville seems to have a habit of shaming people they arrest by posting their photos on Facebook. A woman recently pulled over for "defective equipment" is alleged to have replied with: "Those dirty, lazy (cops) have nothing better to do then charge ME with a joint roach even though
if (emphasis mine) I lived in a different state because I have epilepsy, I wouldn't of gotten in trouble."
Collinsville police allegedly fired back with: "If anyone else would like to exercise their rights by coming on our Facebook page and admitting to the very crimes they were charged with, then please feel free to do so" which looks a lot like an attempt to spin a hypothetical statement into a "confession."
The Tulsa Whirled elevated it into defamation with their headline http://www.tulsaworld.com/communities/collinsville/news/woman-allegedly-admits-to-drug-crime-on-collinsville-police-department/article_f5642374-0160-5a9b-9a0d-6a53e9841c06.html
...but back on course, if this "trial by Facebook" doesnt become a Christmas present for some good lawyer, she's just being used to gum up the justice system and contribute to "urgent needs" to expand the prison industry.
Quote from: Townsend on March 12, 2014, 12:22:37 PM
High Female Lockup Rate Targeted in Bill
http://kwgs.com/post/high-female-lockup-rate-targeted-bill (http://kwgs.com/post/high-female-lockup-rate-targeted-bill)
After her baby was murdered, this mother had the next 20 years of her life stolen in a flawed trial with shady evidence.
A judge threw out her lawsuit after deciding the civil rights violations werent part of a "policy or custom."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/judge-rules-for-city-of-tulsa-in-lawsuit-filed-by/article_d8c14ab3-5bd2-51e8-b64f-80088ede963b.html
Oklahoma prison board asks lawmakers to triple agency's budgethttps://newsok.com/article/5613456/oklahoma-prison-board-asks-lawmakers-to-triple-agencys-budget (https://newsok.com/article/5613456/oklahoma-prison-board-asks-lawmakers-to-triple-agencys-budget)
Quote
'Not a wish list': Corrections asks Legislature for $1.57 billion, including $92 million for hepatitis C treatments
The Oklahoma Board of Corrections voted unanimously Tuesday to ask the state Legislature to triple its funding next fiscal year and provide the agency with a $1.57 billion budget.
"This request is not a wish list," said Oklahoma Department of Corrections Director Joe M. Allbaugh. "This is what we need. Oklahoma continues to send more people to prison, and it costs real money to house, look after and provide those individuals medical care — all of which we are required to do."
Tulsa World journalism makes a difference. Be part of the story. Join us. Start a digital subscription for only 99¢.
The $1.57 billion budget request includes: $884 million to add 5,200 beds to the prison system; $91.7 million to provide inmates with expensive hepatitis C drug treatments; $31.9 million for facility repairs, maintenance and critical needs; and $18.5 million for staff pay raises.
The request comes at a time when state prison facilities are at 113 percent of capacity, with 1,993 inmates assigned temporary beds and 975 sitting in county jails, waiting to be transferred to prison, officials said. The inmate population is expected to grow by 2,367 inmates by 2026.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/not-a-wish-list-corrections-asks-legislature-for-billion-including/article_be81f687-6bd2-54bf-8952-5dae71dc578f.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/not-a-wish-list-corrections-asks-legislature-for-billion-including/article_be81f687-6bd2-54bf-8952-5dae71dc578f.html)
$1.57 billion budget the DOC is requesting is about $500 per citizen of Oklahoma and 20% of the entire state budget!
It is about $980 per tax-filer and around $1,500 per state-income tax payer. That is a tremendous amount of tax dollars per capita. We have more prisoners than New Jersey which has more than 9 million residents! Oklahoma is #1 in incarcerations per capita. We have more incarcerated than Vermont, DC, ND, RI, Wyoming, Maine, Alaska, New Hampshire, Hawaii and Montana combined!
This is the end-game of our state's policies along with our culture (Go drug war! Screw education! Abandon cities and exodus to the 'burbs! We're tough on crime!). If you keep cutting education, you'll pay for it eventually with higher crime and fuller prisons. Time to decriminalize as much as we can and forgive non-violent offenders (which is a very small percentage of criminals though).
Time to work on educating criminals with real skills they can use like plumbing, electrician certs, HVAC, auto-mechanic, etc... Let's be honest that most won't be able to or want to become business professionals. It's so much cheaper and better long term to just have a trade and work for honest wages.
https://medium.com/@Chris_Powell/drew-edmondson-oklahomas-chief-jailer-da1308feec35
All of this and yet property crimes and theft are completely out of control with virtually no viable and reasonable punishment for habitual law breakers. People flagrantly steal because there's no real deterrent, even if they are caught. This is a huge deeply embedded societal problem that keeps getting worse the more the government tries to fix it. We need to look to Kansas/Colorado and see what they've done to curb crime AND keep a very small prison population compared to the region.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 31, 2018, 01:44:11 PM
$1.57 billion budget the DOC is requesting is about $500 per citizen of Oklahoma and 20% of the entire state budget!
It is about $980 per tax-filer and around $1,500 per state-income tax payer. That is a tremendous amount of tax dollars per capita. We have more prisoners than New Jersey which has more than 9 million residents! Oklahoma is #1 in incarcerations per capita. We have more incarcerated than Vermont, DC, ND, RI, Wyoming, Maine, Alaska, New Hampshire, Hawaii and Montana combined!
This is the end-game of our state's policies along with our culture (Go drug war! Screw education! Abandon cities and exodus to the 'burbs! We're tough on crime!). If you keep cutting education, you'll pay for it eventually with higher crime and fuller prisons. Time to decriminalize as much as we can and forgive non-violent offenders (which is a very small percentage of criminals though).
Time to work on educating criminals with real skills they can use like plumbing, electrician certs, HVAC, auto-mechanic, etc... Let's be honest that most won't be able to or want to become business professionals. It's so much cheaper and better long term to just have a trade and work for honest wages.
https://medium.com/@Chris_Powell/drew-edmondson-oklahomas-chief-jailer-da1308feec35
All of this and yet property crimes and theft are completely out of control with virtually no viable and reasonable punishment for habitual law breakers. People flagrantly steal because there's no real deterrent, even if they are caught. This is a huge deeply embedded societal problem that keeps getting worse the more the government tries to fix it. We need to look to Kansas/Colorado and see what they've done to curb crime AND keep a very small prison population compared to the region.
We don't just have the highest incarceration rate in the United States, we are highest in the world. We're number 1?
Quote from: swake on October 31, 2018, 02:19:53 PM
We don't just have the highest incarceration rate in the United States, we are highest in the world. We're number 1?
True, the US is #1 in that by a wide margin so I guess that's a given (but still mind-boggling) that Oklahoma is the #1 incarcerating government on planet earth!
7.6 billion people and hundreds of governments, but Oklahoma has risen to #1, defying all odds!
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 31, 2018, 03:01:27 PM
True, the US is #1 in that by a wide margin so I guess that's a given (but still mind-boggling) that Oklahoma is the #1 incarcerating government on planet earth!
7.6 billion people and hundreds of governments, but Oklahoma has risen to #1, defying all odds!
Keep voting Republicontin - keep getting same results.
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/6d/a6db6ccd-8b92-5257-a8d7-7f1365840fd8/5bda508f0da6f.image.jpg?resize=975%2C630)
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 31, 2018, 05:57:46 PM
Keep voting Republicontin - keep getting same results.
But Kansas has far lower incarceration rates but is also a strongly republican state (Same for Utah, one of the lowest). There is more at work than just R vs D. That link showed that Drew Edmonson (D) was a big part of increasing incarceration rates and instrumental in getting private prisons going. He could've pushed for reform and at least tried to stifle that.
It's a tough situation and I don't see any easy way to fix it. Education is typically the best thing to fix it but not a cure all. The economy and society have to function also. The issues with society are pretty deep. Education and better job stability can fix some but that always creates others. Cities are the hubs for regional issues too (homelessness, crime, poverty).
At this point the only thing they can do is start releasing prisoners and decriminalize anything they can. We voted to lower crimes for that but results of those changes haven't quite kicked in. Oklahoma is definitely in an incarceration crisis and yet crime rates remain ridiculously high. So locking up =/= lowering crime.
Quote from: Townsend on November 01, 2018, 12:54:25 PM
Yep! :-[
Nothing infuriates me more about Oklahoma than the combination of extremely high crime rates and the #1 incarceration rate in the world (and those can be directly attributed to education and government action). It's almost as angering as the DAs like Tim Harris or Edmonson who have been flaunting their "tough on crime" stance for decades as we climbed right up the chart in both categories. It's nonsense and they have failed us.
The DA's are political offices used specifically to gain popularity for bigger offices. Maybe that's the problem. The things that get attention "locking up criminals", "drugs on the table" or punishing crimes, are not what it takes to actually fix the real issues. These people need rehabilitation and a path to contribute to society. Our leaders have got to do it better because we are the absolute worst in the world right now. Anyone with any kind of capability should be able to improve this so I'm not optimistic.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on November 01, 2018, 01:06:08 PM
But Kansas has far lower incarceration rates but is also a strongly republican state (Same for Utah, one of the lowest). There is more at work than just R vs D. That link showed that Drew Edmonson (D) was a big part of increasing incarceration rates and instrumental in getting private prisons going. He could've pushed for reform and at least tried to stifle that.
It's a tough situation and I don't see any easy way to fix it. Education is typically the best thing to fix it but not a cure all. The economy and society have to function also. The issues with society are pretty deep. Education and better job stability can fix some but that always creates others. Cities are the hubs for regional issues too (homelessness, crime, poverty).
At this point the only thing they can do is start releasing prisoners and decriminalize anything they can. We voted to lower crimes for that but results of those changes haven't quite kicked in. Oklahoma is definitely in an incarceration crisis and yet crime rates remain ridiculously high. So locking up =/= lowering crime.
Whew! Exactly which history book did you get that from?? When Frank Keating took office (1995), we spent $0 dollars on private prisons. Two years later, we were spending $60+ million per year on them. (That was also where Mary Failin' got her education as Lt Gov.) His closer personal friend, J Michael Quinlan, was with Corrections Corporation of America, and recommended to get some private prisons.
And don't forget the $250,000 Keating received to promote the use of Dilantin in the prisons.
Your link is typical deflection, dissemination, distortion, and outright fabrication. Edmondoson never had the power to pass a law or issue an executive order or any of the REAL things required to pursue a policy that leads to mass incarceration. He was in position to enforce Oklahoma law. And that he did. To the full extent the ignorance of the time dictated - and has 'doubled down' on since. And now we are where we are - getting worse every year in the state on a wide variety of issues. Scott Pruitt was there from 2011 until he took his corruption train to DC, and 'stepped up' the efforts for even more Psychosis in Government. Along with Failin' and the Clown Show Legislature.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on November 01, 2018, 01:06:08 PM
At this point the only thing they can do is start releasing prisoners and decriminalize anything they can. We voted to lower crimes for that but results of those changes haven't quite kicked in. Oklahoma is definitely in an incarceration crisis and yet crime rates remain ridiculously high. So locking up =/= lowering crime.
Both things I have ranted about since at least the mid 60's. We are insane in this state. Have been for a long time.
And those crime rates being high - well, that lies directly at the feet of the War on Drugs. All other areas are at par. Like most of the wars we have fought for decades, that one is immoral, unethical, intellectually dishonest, illogical, disingenuous, and nonviable. And yet, every OK politician (and many national) talks about being "tough on crime".
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on November 01, 2018, 04:04:09 PM
Whew! Exactly which history book did you get that from?? When Frank Keating took office (1995), we spent $0 dollars on private prisons. Two years later, we were spending $60+ million per year on them. (That was also where Mary Failin' got her education as Lt Gov.) His closer personal friend, J Michael Quinlan, was with Corrections Corporation of America, and recommended to get some private prisons.
And don't forget the $250,000 Keating received to promote the use of Dilantin in the prisons.
Your link is typical deflection, dissemination, distortion, and outright fabrication. Edmondoson never had the power to pass a law or issue an executive order or any of the REAL things required to pursue a policy that leads to mass incarceration. He was in position to enforce Oklahoma law. And that he did. To the full extent the ignorance of the time dictated - and has 'doubled down' on since. And now we are where we are - getting worse every year in the state on a wide variety of issues. Scott Pruitt was there from 2011 until he took his corruption train to DC, and 'stepped up' the efforts for even more Psychosis in Government. Along with Failin' and the Clown Show Legislature.
Edmonson was against MMJ until the most recent vote passed and said it's the will of the people. He's been a fan of the drug war. He could've used his influence to stand for reform but went with the way things were for decades, not standing up or speaking out that change was needed. He was involved with getting private prisons going. Those directly incentivize those corporations to do what they can (especially politically) to boost incarceration rates.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on November 02, 2018, 11:33:08 AM
Edmonson was against MMJ until the most recent vote passed and said it's the will of the people. He's been a fan of the drug war. He could've used his influence to stand for reform but went with the way things were for decades, not standing up or speaking out that change was needed. He was involved with getting private prisons going. Those directly incentivize those corporations to do what they can (especially politically) to boost incarceration rates.
Deflection alert! You said, "That link showed that Drew Edmonson (D) was a big part of increasing incarceration rates and instrumental in getting private prisons going. He could've pushed for reform and at least tried to stifle that."
I called BS and showed EXACTLY who was the big part of increasing incarceration rates and instrumental in getting private prisons going. And it was NOT Edmondson.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt...
Oklahomans have voted for criminal justice reform and remain eager for it, but the system may not be responding to those changes the way the public expected.
That is suggested by polling conducted on behalf of reform advocate Fwd.us and preliminary data from the Oklahoma Department of Corrections for fiscal year 2018, which ended June 30 — one year after the effective date of landmark State Questions 780 and 781.
Oklahoma has some of the highest incarceration rates in the world, which in 2016 prompted voters to approve the two measures. SQ 780 reclassifies many nonviolent crimes, including simple possession of marijuana, from felonies to misdemeanors. SQ 781 provides for funding of community-based addiction treatment.
The intent was to lower or at least control the state's burgeoning prison population and reduce the number of Oklahomans with felony convictions, which can make finding and keeping a job and generally staying on the straight and narrow more difficult.
But DOC data shows inductions into the state prison system increased 11 percent during that first year of SQs 780 and 781, and that while admissions for simple possession of marijuana declined, those for intent to distribute rose 20 percent.
Kris Steele, chairman of Oklahomans for Criminal Justice Reform, and Todd Schulte, president of Fwd.us, said it appears some prosecutors are charging offenders who previously would have been cited for simple possession with more serious crimes, such as intent to distribute or child endangerment.
"This is relatively common (nationally)," Schulte said.
"People continue to want (reform) to happen," he said, "but some district attorneys continue to push hard against these changes."
Jenny Proehl-Day, who is challenging District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler in Tuesday's general election, says Kunzweiler is one of those resisting decriminalization.
Kunzweiler said that's not true.
"I would challenge the assertion that there is some effort to circumvent (SQ) 780," he said. "I would suspect that if people are going to prison, a component of that might be that we've made a decision to get very aggressive after the drug dealers in the community because of the violence that was associated with that was spiking our homicide rate."
The Fwd.us-commissioned survey, conducted by nationally known firm Public Opinion Strategies, gives reform advocates some leverage. It shows large majorities of Oklahomans continue to support criminal justice reform.
The survey found 83 percent of Oklahomans believe reducing the number of people behind bars is important, and 72 percent said the criminal justice system needs "significant improvement."
Three-quarters said people convicted of nonviolent felonies who have since been reduced to misdemeanors should have their sentences reduced accordingly.
"People want to see (reform) enacted," Schulte said. "That's very clear."
Steele said admissions into the prison system continued to rise in the first year under SQ 780 because some people charged with simple possession before the July 1, 2017, effective date were still in the pipeline. Others, he said, went to prison because they violated the terms of their supervised release.
Steele said a legislative agenda is still being formulated, but it will almost certainly include legislation to specify conditions for an intent to distribute charge. Under current law, that decision is entirely up to the prosecutor.
Another likely priority will be making SQ 780's reclassification of some felonies retroactive.
"It's going to take time to see the full impact and the full benefit (of reform)," Steele said. "We did have a 25 percent reduction in felony filings. That means there are 25 percent fewer people walking around with a scarlet letter on their record."
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/oklahomans-still-ardently-support-criminal-justice-reform-as-system-proves/article_af745d6b-04a3-5fff-83d9-68d546fc7e8a.html
Ironically, police and prosecutors cite 780 and 781 as justification to sidestep the new medical marijuana law.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on November 02, 2018, 01:41:56 PM
Deflection alert! You said, "That link showed that Drew Edmonson (D) was a big part of increasing incarceration rates and instrumental in getting private prisons going. He could've pushed for reform and at least tried to stifle that."
I called BS and showed EXACTLY who was the big part of increasing incarceration rates and instrumental in getting private prisons going. And it was NOT Edmondson.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt...
You're as bad as anyone else with the "GO TEAM RED!!!" "GO TEAM BLUE!!!" arguments who see the splinter in the other sides eye and ignores the plank in their guy's eye.
Most all politicians have had their hands in the dirt. Glad you don't have red glasses on, but you need to take off the blue colored glasses. Edmonson is not perfect. Tax & spend democrats had control of this state for many decades and didn't do much better.
See how one of our former tax and spend democrat governors Boren did with financials as OU's president:
http://www.newson6.com/story/39234366/ou-president-says-he-is-determined-to-fix-the-universitys-overspending (http://www.newson6.com/story/39234366/ou-president-says-he-is-determined-to-fix-the-universitys-overspending)
The main advantage to a democrat as governor is that they can veto the crazy bills the legislature puts out to keep them in check (but that means that just about nothing will get done). At some point someone has to own up to the fact we need to spend less than what we have and should be saving as well. Will Edmonson be able to actually tax the ultra-wealthy or big oil? Not without a super-majority in the legislature. So we will continue the same path where the common people subsidize the wealthy and barely keep up with paying the bills.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on November 06, 2018, 12:31:49 PM
You're as bad as anyone else with the "GO TEAM RED!!!" "GO TEAM BLUE!!!" arguments who see the splinter in the other sides eye and ignores the plank in their guy's eye.
Most all politicians have had their hands in the dirt. Glad you don't have red glasses on, but you need to take off the blue colored glasses. Edmonson is not perfect. Tax & spend democrats had control of this state for many decades and didn't do much better.
See how one of our former tax and spend democrat governors Boren did with financials as OU's president:
http://www.newson6.com/story/39234366/ou-president-says-he-is-determined-to-fix-the-universitys-overspending (http://www.newson6.com/story/39234366/ou-president-says-he-is-determined-to-fix-the-universitys-overspending)
The main advantage to a democrat as governor is that they can veto the crazy bills the legislature puts out to keep them in check (but that means that just about nothing will get done). At some point someone has to own up to the fact we need to spend less than what we have and should be saving as well. Will Edmonson be able to actually tax the ultra-wealthy or big oil? Not without a super-majority in the legislature. So we will continue the same path where the common people subsidize the wealthy and barely keep up with paying the bills.
You haven't read all of my comments have you - I am much more moderate than what you seem to 'see'. Go back and look at my replies (attacks) on the left with their gun control BS.
Now into projection, I see...
True - Gene Stipe (Dem) was a master of getting a vastly disproportionate share of state money for his area. And he, of course, got his fair share of "consulting fees" from lobbyists and organizations. As did Charlie Ford (Rep) at about the same time. They knew how to work with each other for the good of themselves...and sometimes even the good of the state!
And now we have the next Mary Failin' clone to carry on her bad tradition!! "Go Team Stupid.!!" Or "Go Team Vote For The Guy Whose Business Practices Get Him Banned For Life In Georgia!"
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on November 07, 2018, 08:41:10 AM
You haven't read all of my comments have you - I am much more moderate than what you seem to 'see'. Go back and look at my replies (attacks) on the left with their gun control BS.
Now into projection, I see...
True - Gene Stipe (Dem) was a master of getting a vastly disproportionate share of state money for his area. And he, of course, got his fair share of "consulting fees" from lobbyists and organizations. As did Charlie Ford (Rep) at about the same time. They knew how to work with each other for the good of themselves...and sometimes even the good of the state!
And now we have the next Mary Failin' clone to carry on her bad tradition!! "Go Team Stupid.!!" Or "Go Team Vote For The Guy Whose Business Practices Get Him Banned For Life In Georgia!"
Bernie Sanders has been one of the most liberal congressmen/Senators for decades and he is all about gun rights as are most of his constituents in Vermont.
Quote"Go Team Vote For The Guy Whose Business Practices Get Him Banned For Life In Georgia!"
Funny you say that because Gateway Mortgage is not banned from Georgia or any other states. That was the biggest negative I heard about Stitt... which is an attack on his
billion-dollar company that he founded himself. Please find me a billion dollar company that has had zero mishaps or run-ins with regulations, especially with 1,300+ employees in 41 states in a highly-regulated industry.
QuoteOklahoma Republican gubernatorial candidate Kevin Stitt had no direct role in actions that led to a 2009 consent agreement barring Stitt and his company, Gateway Mortgage Group, from doing business in Georgia, according to Gateway General Counsel Scott Gesell.
The ban on Gateway was permanent, while Stitt agreed not to do business in Georgia for five years.
"There were no findings that involved Kevin," Gesell said. "He's free to do business there now."
Gesell said the Georgia Department of Banking found several violations of state law in a routine 2008 examination. The violations were by staff in the Georgia office, and primarily involved noncompliant background checks and "misrepresentations" of whether the houses being mortgaged would be owner-occupied.
The employees involved were dismissed as a result of the examination, Gesell said.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/gateway-problems-in-georgia-did-not-directly-involve-kevin-stitt/article_649fe782-22e4-5544-bb17-35fe38815cb5.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/gateway-problems-in-georgia-did-not-directly-involve-kevin-stitt/article_649fe782-22e4-5544-bb17-35fe38815cb5.html)
QuoteThe AP reviewed actions taken in both states and found the company's license was only suspended in Georgia in 2009, amid allegations that the company made false statements and misrepresented facts to lenders, according to documents from the state's banking agency. In June, Stitt and Gateway reached an agreement with Georgia regulators that the company can reapply for a license at any time.
http://www.tribtown.com/2018/11/01/us-election-2018-oklahoma-governor-fact-check/?fbclid=IwAR0JgvC-Fy3Zn3vFsU012QifxDZUgokn4lMARImvbqxmsX99bAZJD3gvLJA (http://www.tribtown.com/2018/11/01/us-election-2018-oklahoma-governor-fact-check/?fbclid=IwAR0JgvC-Fy3Zn3vFsU012QifxDZUgokn4lMARImvbqxmsX99bAZJD3gvLJA)
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on November 07, 2018, 08:41:10 AM
You haven't read all of my comments have you - I am much more moderate than what you seem to 'see'. Go back and look at my replies (attacks) on the left with their gun control BS.
Now into projection, I see...
True - Gene Stipe (Dem) was a master of getting a vastly disproportionate share of state money for his area. And he, of course, got his fair share of "consulting fees" from lobbyists and organizations. As did Charlie Ford (Rep) at about the same time. They knew how to work with each other for the good of themselves...and sometimes even the good of the state!
And now we have the next Mary Failin' clone to carry on her bad tradition!! "Go Team Stupid.!!" Or "Go Team Vote For The Guy Whose Business Practices Get Him Banned For Life In Georgia!"
All fair points. However, I very nearly started working for Gateway in 2015. At the time their office was just down the street from mine. I also knew several people who worked there from an old employer. And when I say knew them, I worked very closely with them with for several years at this employer. I got the impression they didn't like Stitt. Not necessarily for his business dealings, but his overt religion that he infused into the company. Example: they held prayer before the beginning of every business day (I heard, I have no way of confirming this to be true)j. And while that may not be illegal, if I'd have started working for that company and found this out on day one, I'd have been gone. If you want that kind of proselytizing in your place of employment, then go work for Hobby Lobby or Chick Fil A. I also heard some of these individuals I knew didn't care for some of his business practices. That could be any business owner. But this guy is talking about running Oklahoma like a business. Wait, who said that about 8 years ago?.... Ah yes, Mary Failin. Stitt is just going to be Fallin v2.0 I'm afraid.
Quote from: Hoss on November 07, 2018, 10:37:00 AM
All fair points. However, I very nearly started working for Gateway in 2015. At the time their office was just down the street from mine. I also knew several people who worked there from an old employer. And when I say knew them, I worked very closely with them with for several years at this employer. I got the impression they didn't like Stitt. Not necessarily for his business dealings, but his overt religion that he infused into the company. Example: they held prayer before the beginning of every business day (I heard, I have no way of confirming this to be true)j. And while that may not be illegal, if I'd have started working for that company and found this out on day one, I'd have been gone. If you want that kind of proselytizing in your place of employment, then go work for Hobby Lobby or Chick Fil A.
http://www.newson6.com/story/38458020/truth-test-kevin-stitts-business-record
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on November 07, 2018, 10:20:13 AM
Funny you say that because Gateway Mortgage is not banned from Georgia or any other states. That was the biggest negative I heard about Stitt... which is an attack on his billion-dollar company that he founded himself. Please find me a billion dollar company that has had zero mishaps or run-ins with regulations, especially with 1,300+ employees in 41 states in a highly-regulated industry.
You missed the payoff event earlier this year to get that cleared in time for the election cycle. At the first of this year, the ban was still in place.
His company - HE is responsible. And it has had "mishaps" repeatedly across many states. This is a pattern of behavior that IS driven from the top.
Ahhh...since others did it, that makes it all right...!! I have said before that if someone has accumulated $1 Billion in personal wealth, they have engaged in at the very least, shady activities, and in MOST cases, illegal activities.
Prosecutors needs to follow the wishes of voters and help reduce prison rates
Oklahoma voters spoke clearly two years ago when they passed criminal justice reforms meant to reduce the prison population.
It's upsetting to see prison admissions have actually increased by 11 percent in the first year after the passage of State Question 780, which downgraded several classes of nonviolent felonies to misdemeanors.
Tulsa County is among the top five jurisdictions contributing to this increase with a 9 percent jump in the number of people being sent to prison, according to leading advocates Oklahomans for Criminal Justice Reform and FWD.us.
Prosecutors are being accused of getting around the new law by charging defendants with felony crimes they would have not faced before the change.
Tulsa County District Steve Kunzweiler has pledged to analyze individual felony cases to determine if that took place or if alternative options were ignored. That's obviously called for, although, as an interested party, Kunzweiler may not be the best one to do it.
The Tulsa County incarceration surge needs to be analyzed independently and transparently. There wasn't a crime wave in Tulsa County. Some other explanation must be at work, and it may well prove to be intentionally counter to the expressed desires of the voters of Oklahoma.
However, if the law and the voters' intent were honored, then more reforms are needed to get at the result Oklahomans want: fewer prisoners and lower prison costs.
Oklahoma's No. 1 national ranking in prison incarceration is an expensive embarrassment that has not made the state any safer.
Costs for this big prison business are warping Oklahoma's budget priorities. Money that could be used for education, job training and health care is going into the black hole of mass incarceration.
That's not the way Oklahoma voters want to do business anymore.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-prosecutors-needs-to-follow-the-wishes-of/article_3de726ea-2d51-540c-b3de-7071f875037c.html
Steve Kunzweiler wins second term as Tulsa County District Attorney
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elections/steve-kunzweiler-wins-second-term-as-tulsa-county-district-attorney/article_5b2b8524-e23a-11e8-a22f-93d0897478b1.html
SQ 780 seems to be working as intended. Amazingly the Oklahoma Legislature managed to not screw this up. Though there is some concern about prosecutors about monkeying with charges to still attain a felony rap.
QuoteEarly results are in on State Question 780: Felony charges dropped 28.4 percent statewide in one year, sharply reversing at least a 10-year upward trend that pushed Oklahoma's prison rate to highest in the nation.
Correspondingly, the number of misdemeanor cases filed rose 13.6 percent. The number of felony and misdemeanor filings each returned to levels not seen since 2008.
SQ 780 reclassified simple drug possession as a misdemeanor instead of a felony, also raising the threshold for many felony property crimes to $1,000 from $500.
"It's very encouraging to see that SQ 780 is working as intended," Ryan Gentzler, director of Open Justice Oklahoma, said in a statement. "Thousands of Oklahomans are avoiding felony records for low-level drug and property offenses, while crime rates continue to fall.
"Oklahoma's experience shows that we can have both less crime and less punishment if we pursue smart criminal justice reform."
FWD.us and the George Kaiser Family Foundation are the primary funders of Open Justice Oklahoma, according to its website.
Cases involving reclassified charges greatly shifted from felony to misdemeanor filings, an intended consequence of SQ 780, according to the report's data.
Statewide, felonies for drug possession in a single year fell from 18,942 to 4,841 — a 74.4 percent drop. Drug possession misdemeanors climbed from 4,867 to 12,963 — up 166.3 percent. Property crimes mirrored this trend but to a lesser degree.
In Tulsa County, felony drug possession dropped 68 percent to 808 cases from 2,488. Misdemeanors jumped 186 percent to 1,322 cases from 462.
"This suggests that drug possession was the most serious charge for the vast majority of these cases prior to SQ 780," the report states.
The Open Justice Oklahoma report released Tuesday is the latest in attempts to measure SQ 780's outcomes.
Oklahomans for Criminal Justice Reform recently put out its assessment of SQ 780 after a year, though its conclusion was less rosy. The report found that despite reforms, the state's prison population is still projected to climb.
OCJR said data shows SQ 780 on its own isn't enough to turn the tide. OCJR, which organized the movement in favor of SQ 780, is placing emphasis in the upcoming legislative session on making its laws apply retroactively in some fashion.
"Now, more than a year after it went into effect, the change has been limited, suggesting that further reforms are needed to achieve its full impact," the OCJR report stated.
One particular area has been under scrutiny in trying to ascertain SQ 780's affects: felony possession of drugs with intent to distribute.
Proponents of SQ 780 have voiced concern that district attorneys may try to circumvent the will of the people by utilizing the charge of felony possession with intent to distribute.
Open Justice Oklahoma found that those cases increased statewide by 13.7 percent, or 433 cases. In Tulsa County, that increase was 10.4 percent, or 64 more cases.
Gentzler said prosecutors hold considerable discretion because statutes don't require a minimum quantity of a drug to trigger an intent to distribute charge instead of possession.
He noted that some counties, including Dewey, Haskell, Logan and Payne, had filings multiply several times over. That is an indicator that those prosecutors might be filing harsher drug charges in SQ 780's wake.
"There's tons to unpack there," Gentzler said. "I wouldn't want to draw any strong conclusions from one year of data. But I think it's fair to say prosecutors (in general), and at least in Tulsa, haven't adjusted in a punitive way to State Question 780."
Corbin Brewster, chief Tulsa County public defender, said the drop in felonies charged is encouraging. He noted that Tulsa's homicide rate is down and other violent crimes haven't increased since SQ 780 arrived.
"So to me, that shows that 780 is working and working well and working without any cost to public safety," Brewster said.
Stephanie Horten, director of the local Criminal Justice Collaborative, said Open Justice Oklahoma's findings are a reason to celebrate. But, she cautioned, during the same period Tulsa County sent more women to prison than the previous year.
Horten said there was a 75 percent increase in fiscal year 2018 in the number of women put into custody of the state Department of Corrections.
"Filing fewer felony charges is a good first step, but we must also change how the criminal justice system responds to those who are charged with a felony," Horten said. "We must increase access to substance-abuse and mental-health treatment and decrease the number of people we choose to incarcerate."
https://www.tulsaworld.com
Quote from: Conan71 on November 29, 2018, 11:33:39 AM
SQ 780 seems to be working as intended. Amazingly the Oklahoma Legislature managed to not screw this up. Though there is some concern about prosecutors about monkeying with charges to still attain a felony rap.
https://www.tulsaworld.com
https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-some-myths-and-some-reality-about-state/article_0a1f888e-014c-582e-b5db-11da4e4df53a.html
There should be no place in America for profiting off putting more people behind bars or in detention. That's why I will shut down the use of federal private detention facilities by ending all contracts that the Bureau of Prisons, ICE, and the U.S. Marshals Service have with private detention providers. And I will extend these bans to states and localities by conditioning their receipt of federal public safety funding on their use of public facilities.
https://slate.com/business/2019/06/elizabeth-warren-private-prisons-stocks.html
A Republican Crusader Takes on Oklahoma's Prison Machine
In the state that locks up more of its citizens than any other, a former politician is using the ballot box—and some surprising alliances—to nudge his own party toward change.
In Oklahoma, a drug offender will spend 78 percent more time behind bars than the national average. A violent offender will spend 21 percent more time.
There is no shortage of work. Oklahoma has led the nation in the number of citizens it incarcerates, often in a neck-and-neck race with Louisiana. A June 2018 report by the Prison Policy Initiative declared Oklahoma "the world's prison capital"—putting the tally at 1,079 people incarcerated per 100,000 when counting prisons, jails, ICE detention and juvenile lockup. The governor's recent spate of commutations—including the record-setting 527 in a single day in November—and parole board reforms have helped nudge down that number, but the prison system remains so overloaded that the state's Department of Corrections has requested $884 million to increase capacity by 5,200 beds.
"I refuse to believe Oklahomans are the worst people in the world," Kris Steele says. Rather, it's a state suffering from addiction, trauma and poverty, and a political culture that prizes tough-minded approaches to social problems. He argues the penal system merely makes that situation worse. When I visited him in Oklahoma before the Covid outbreak, Steele told me that he loves his home state, "but we're awfully quick to look at incarceration as a solution. It tears families apart, it creates instability. It makes the situation much worse."
For poor Oklahomans, and there are plenty, doing time often starts before there's ever a trial.
The Prison Policy Initiative estimated about 13,000 people in the state sat in the state's local jails in 2018. Many couldn't afford to pay bail so they could be released pending their trials. In Tulsa, the median stay for an inmate who hasn't been convicted of a nonviolent felony is 33 days. In Rogers County, next door, the median stay is 183 days, according to data compiled by the Oklahoma Policy Institute. Nevertheless, bail bondsmen do brisk business across the state. The strip around the Tulsa County courthouse looks like a Las Vegas for the luckless, flashing with signs and bright billboards that scream promises of affordable bail bonds, typically 10 percent of the bail amount.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/23/republican-prison-reform-debate-criminal-justice-conservatives-137887
The governor's office did not respond to an interview request from POLITICO. But in a public statement, Stitt said he opposed SQ 805 and supports sentence enhancements for crimes like DUIs, human trafficking and domestic violence. And Stitt's is not the loudest voice of opposition to 805. As usual, it's the prosecutors, specifically their lobbying arm, the District Attorneys Council.
The council funds its lobbying work partially through the millions of dollars it receives from fees charged to the criminal defendants.
Quote from: patric on April 24, 2020, 08:48:52 PM
For poor Oklahomans, and there are plenty, doing time often starts before there's ever a trial.
Not just "plenty" - it is MOST Oklahomans that are poor.