I live way out in Bixby, and don't get into downtown or midtown very often. I know there is a lot going in downtown, but I need somebody to fill me in on Cherry Street and the midtown area. Any updates on proposed or under construction projects would be greatly appreciated.
-Thanks.
Someone has been there done that....Didn't work out to well.....
There's not much going on outside of a few small projects like newly renovated restaurants and retail stores. There are the 1432 Trenton lofts going up, and there is a thread for that. The Blue Rose is an interesting project and there is a thread for that; hopefully that leads to more interest/development in the Riverview area and along the riverfront. TU has several new buildings going up, I'll have to take some pics next time I'm on campus and post an update. I'd love to see more development in midtown, hopefully it picks up again.
Some projects I would like to see in midtown:
- Hotel/condo tower where the H&P headquarters used to be at 21st & Utica (this has been rumored since they moved their HQ to uptown and demolished that building)
- Additional development in Utica Square i.e. new stores and restaurants
- Condos at 21st & Main (this project seemingly died with the Recession, would be nice to see something go up on that empty lot)
- Phase II of Utica Place (the townhomes along Utica west of the tower)
- Redevelopment (new apartments/townhomes) in the area north of Veterans Park between Boulder and Boston
- Medical office building at 14th & Utica (again, empty lot..)
- Redevelopment of Lincoln Plaza parking lot at 15th & Peoria into mixed-use
- Construction of the townhouse project at 13th & Cheyenne
- Streetscape projects along 11th between downtown and TU, 6th between downtown and TU (and bike lanes), 15th through Cherry Street, Utica from 11th to 21st, and Peoria in Brookside from 36th to 41st
- Construction of the proposed Crow Creek hike/bike trail from the river to Zink Park through Brookside
- Redevelopment of the rundown apartment complexes overlooking the river around Riverside & Denver
- Redevelopment (new student housing above stores/restaurants) along the TU strip on 11th between Delaware and Harvard
- More academic buildings at TU including a new student union north of the library and a new sciences building on the parking lot at 6th & Delaware
- More urban infill developments in Brookside and Cherry Street
- Redevelopment of the apartments at 31st & Riverside along Crow Creek and development of the Blair property to the north (Kaiser Foundation projects-there's a thread about it somewhere)
- Bomasada development in Brookside - dead? Again, vacant land in a desirable area
I would really love to see Cherry Street and Brookside become even more dense. I was hoping there would be more loft buildings similar to 1432 being built, but apparently not as of yet. Hopefully soon we will see more projects come on line. Thanks for the very detailed post SXSW.
Anything about the Phoenix Cafe at 6th and Peoria?
I saw the signs in the window but was wondering if anyone knew the progress.
edit: Well what the heck?...I thought I saw a sign in a window at that intersection but the location on FB says it will be DT across from the park.
A new restaurant in downtown...? :)
Are you talking across from Centennial Green? If so, which building will it be in?
Quote from: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 03:56:25 PM
Are you talking across from Centennial Green? If so, which building will it be in?
Well, their FB states "302 E 6th Street Tulsa" which places it at 6th and Detroit but it mentions Centennial Park which is on Peoria so I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong or someone else has.
Google maps puts 302 E 6th close to that awful AT&T building. I think something is wrong in this system. I would love to see a new restaurant across from Centennial Green though, if that's where this is at...
Quote from: Townsend on February 09, 2011, 04:01:33 PM
Well, their FB states "302 E 6th Street Tulsa" which places it at 6th and Detroit but it mentions Centennial Park which is on Peoria so I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong or someone else has.
They must mean Centennial Green, which is downtown on 6th by the CoC building.
Quote from: swake on February 09, 2011, 04:17:33 PM
They must mean Centennial Green, which is downtown on 6th by the CoC building.
That's what I was hoping.
Quote from: Townsend on February 09, 2011, 04:01:33 PM
Well, their FB states "302 E 6th Street Tulsa" which places it at 6th and Detroit but it mentions Centennial Park which is on Peoria so I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong or someone else has.
I think its 1302 E 6th St. (per the Urban Tulsa 12.29.10 - linked below) which puts it at 6th and Peoria as apart of the Pearl District redevelopment.
This discussion had my hopes up that this was one of the first tenants of the Enterprise Building re-purposing (across from the Centennial Green) which would have made it a walkable lunchtime destination.
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A34592 (http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A34592)
Quote from: TulsaBound on February 09, 2011, 04:44:29 PM
I think its 1302 E 6th St. (per the Urban Tulsa 12.29.10 - linked below) which puts it at 6th and Peoria as apart of the Pearl District redevelopment.
This discussion had my hopes up that this was one of the first tenants of the Enterprise Building re-purposing (across from the Centennial Green) which would have made it a walkable lunchtime destination.
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A34592 (http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A34592)
Yeah, sorry. I saw the window sign on the SE corner of 6th and Peoria.
I would rather this be in the Pearl District, because I think this area has a ton of potential. Does anyone know if streetscaping has begun in this area, or when it should begin? I would love to see the Pearl District take off. I think this could be a turning point for the area.
Quote from: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 06:08:25 PM
I would rather this be in the Pearl District, because I think this area has a ton of potential. Does anyone know if streetscaping has begun in this area, or when it should begin? I would love to see the Pearl District take off. I think this could be a turning point for the area.
Agree, not sure what the timetable is though. As cool as it would be to have a canal run down 6th I would rather just see a streetscape so work can get started. It would be great to see this streetscape extend all the way to Delaware. 2 lanes the whole way with wider sidewalks, street trees, new lighting, and bike lanes in each direction going from TU to downtown (ending at 7th/Houston). The Pearl district does have a lot of potential but a lot of that hinges upon the flooding/stormwater issues addressed and the streetscape on 6th. A streetscape on 11th would help the area too. I have a thread about that in the Urban Planning subforum, and why I think it should be renamed.
Quote from: SXSW on February 09, 2011, 07:42:31 PM
Agree, not sure what the timetable is though. As cool as it would be to have a canal run down 6th I would rather just see a streetscape so work can get started. It would be great to see this streetscape extend all the way to Delaware. 2 lanes the whole way with wider sidewalks, street trees, new lighting, and bike lanes in each direction going from TU to downtown (ending at 7th/Houston). The Pearl district does have a lot of potential but a lot of that hinges upon the flooding/stormwater issues addressed and the streetscape on 6th. A streetscape on 11th would help the area too. I have a thread about that in the Urban Planning subforum, and why I think it should be renamed.
Could you give a link to that thread?
I don't think I would want to see a canal run down 6th. If there were to be one, there would need to be a TON of thought put into it. If it turned out like the Bricktown Canal, I would be very disappointed. The Bricktown Canal does not feel like it belongs where it is. It feels very planned to me. I don't want a planned feel in the Pearl District.
With that said, I would much rather see a streetscape done in the Pearl District. It could be started faster, and I think it would feel more genuine. Hopefully, whatever the plans are, we will see construction begin soon. A major streetscaping would be a catalyst for the Pearl District.
Quote from: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 08:08:09 PM
Could you give a link to that thread?
The thread about 11th and TU
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=15765.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=15765.0)
There are lots of threads about the Pearl, here is one about the flood control project
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=12606.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=12606.0)
Thanks
After reading through those threads, I learned a lot of things about the Pearl District. Namely, that it is in a flood plain. I did not realize that the canal would be functional. Also, if it would turn out like the renderings, I would say that it was tastefully done. With this being an idea for flood mitigation, it is really creative. I say let's get some dozers out there soon!
I still think a major streetscaping should be done along with the canal.
P.S. Is there a timetable for this project or is it still up in the air?
I don't know the status of the Pearl/Elm Creek project, does anyone? I don't know the status of Blake's project at 6th & Peoria either; he is a TNF poster so maybe he'll stop by and fill us in. He may know more about the flood control and streetscape projects too.
There are two infill developments currently proposed or underway in the Brookside area. One is at 32nd & Peoria north of Crow Creek. I noticed on the minutes from the TMAPC Agenda from Feb 2 for a residential PUD (PUD-782 "Crow Creek Place") at this location. The zoning is RS-3, which is high density single family residential. The other is at 41st & Victor (just east of 41st & Utica). There is a residential development under construction here that appears to be several larger homes. This is also a green/sustainable development which is awesome. Here is a video of it http://vimeo.com/10561970 (http://vimeo.com/10561970)
There is also a 4 unit townhome project called "Maple Terrace" proposed at 15th & Norfolk by Cherry Street that was on the TMAPC Agenda . This is the only article I could find about it http://www.dolanmedia.com/view.cfm?recID=672705 (http://www.dolanmedia.com/view.cfm?recID=672705)
I think we will see a lot more of these types of developments get off the ground this year.
Love these infill projects. My only complaint about them is that they are gated. I think gating gives a false sense of security. It also seems to set certain projects apart from others, not in a good way. Aside from that, I LOVE the townhomes project. They will be great for the Cherry Street area. I espescially like the idea of rooftop patios. Hopefully construction can start soon. Thanks for the updates!
Quote from: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 02:34:23 PM
Love these infill projects. My only complaint about them is that they are gated. I think gating gives a false sense of security. It also seems to set certain projects apart from others, not in a good way. Aside from that, I LOVE the townhomes project. They will be great for the Cherry Street area. I espescially like the idea of rooftop patios. Hopefully construction can start soon. Thanks for the updates!
Place 41 will be gated but I don't think the Crow Creek or Cherry Street projects will be. The most significant, large-scale infill projects for midtown will be the redevelopment of the Crow Creek apartments at 31st & Riverside, the development of the Blair property at 28th & Riverside, and the development of the H&P property 21st & St. Louis/Utica.
Quoteand the development of the H&P property 21st & St. Louis/Utica.
Are there actual plans for this to be developed?
Quote from: SXSW on February 10, 2011, 02:52:44 PM
Place 41 will be gated but I don't think the Crow Creek or Cherry Street projects will be. The most significant, large-scale infill projects for midtown will be the redevelopment of the Crow Creek apartments at 31st & Riverside, the development of the Blair property at 28th & Riverside, and the development of the H&P property 21st & St. Louis/Utica.
I followed that link. The Cherry Street at Norfolk project is indeed planned as a gated development. And brought to you by one of those guys who builds McMansions next to cottages in our area. Since I don't know of any open lots on that corner I have to assume he'll tear out existing properties to do this. I am not too happy to see that we would consider taking part of Maple Ridge to gate off for more stucco'd, out of character buildings. Same 'ol, same 'ol.
I THINK the lot is on the SE corner of the IDL, right next to other McMansions that were probably built by him. I only think he would have to tear down one building, so it's all good right...
Why can't he just build these on an already empty lot on Cherry Street? There are plenty of them. Otherwise, aside from the gates this seems like a decent project.
Quote from: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 04:25:40 PM
I THINK the lot is on the SE corner of the IDL, right next to other McMansions that were probably built by him. I only think he would have to tear down one building, so it's all good right...
Why can't he just build these on an already empty lot on Cherry Street? There are plenty of them. Otherwise, aside from the gates this seems like a decent project.
I think this is on an empty lot north of 15th on Norfolk, where it dead ends, on the west side of the street. There is a dentist office in the house adjacent to the south. They won't have to tear down any houses. This lot has a great view of downtown and yes it appears to be gated like the neighborhood to the east..
The owner of Landmark Realty and Landmark Construction has a preliminary subdivision plat proposal before the Metropolitan Tulsa Area Planning Commission for separating a 0.42-acre Norfolk Avenue lot into four lots. This would allow for a central driveway into Maple Terrace Townhomes, a gated community of four town houses just north of 15th Street
I think we are talking about the same lot, just describing it differently.
Quote from: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 04:10:02 PM
Are there actual plans for this to be developed?
I have heard H&P has a plan for this property and it includes a hotel/condo tower facing the plaza/fountain (adjacent to the parking garage) but I have no idea if that is true or if there are actual plans in place. That would be great for Utica Square (which the Helmerich's own) and for St. John across the street. It would also provide midtown with a full-service hotel, and the views of downtown from that location are fantastic. Go up to the top of the parking garage sometime and check it out. I would think the area to the west (east of St. Louis, north of 21st and south of 19th) could be developed into nice townhomes or single family homes. It's just a random park-like, forested area with a Utica Square maintenance barn as it is, right next to one of the densest 'hoods in Tulsa.
A hotel/condo tower in that area would be awesome. I can imagine that it would have some of the best views in town. I'll see if I can find out about any plans for this site.
The site in its current form is set up well for a tower. The main entrance could be off the street that connects the parking garage to 21st facing the plaza/fountain. The height would depend on how many hotel rooms and condos would be included but likely over 10 stories, possibly 20. They could build their pool on top of the parking garage and it would have an amazing view to the northwest. I imagine the style would be similar to the newer buildings in the Utica Square area but maybe more contemporary, something like the Pan Pacific Hotel in Seattle where I stayed on a recent trip there:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/Picture019.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/Picture030.jpg)
I think a tower in either one of those styles would be fantastic. I espescially like the second one and think it would mix well with the Saint John hospital's architecture. I think something around fifteen stories would work nicely.
Quote from: SXSW on February 10, 2011, 04:33:24 PM
I think this is on an empty lot north of 15th on Norfolk, where it dead ends, on the west side of the street. There is a dentist office in the house adjacent to the south. They won't have to tear down any houses. This lot has a great view of downtown and yes it appears to be gated like the neighborhood to the east..
The owner of Landmark Realty and Landmark Construction has a preliminary subdivision plat proposal before the Metropolitan Tulsa Area Planning Commission for separating a 0.42-acre Norfolk Avenue lot into four lots. This would allow for a central driveway into Maple Terrace Townhomes, a gated community of four town houses just north of 15th Street
I just drove by there. Yes, it is north of 15th street. They tore out a perfectly lovely mediterranean home that sat on that lot about a year ago. I should have suspected they would follow up with plopping 4 homes on the same lot. The view of the downtown skyline is spectacular when the sun sets behind it but it also has a great view of a cluster of highway lights to the North of it. That area is already screwed, might as well gate it off so no one else can enjoy that view.
We need an ordinance to not allow gated neighborhoods in midtown.
This would be the northwest view from a hotel/condo at 21st & Utica...taken with my iphone from the 6th floor of the parking garage there
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/photo.jpg)
That is an AWESOME view. People will pay lots of money to have that out their window. I just hope they're not all outrageously expensive.
Quote from: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 07:59:50 PM
We need an ordinance to not allow gated neighborhoods in midtown.
Unless it's to contain crappy dryvit Tuscan nightmares from creeping out into other neighborhoods where they are out of character with the surroundings.
Oooops, too late.
Maybe it's just me, but I actually like the faux Tuscan along Utica. I don't like it when it finds it's way into residential areas though...
Edit: along 21st, not Utica.
Quote from: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 05:39:00 PM
I think a tower in either one of those styles would be fantastic. I espescially like the second one and think it would mix well with the Saint John hospital's architecture. I think something around fifteen stories would work nicely.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's because of living in Phoenix for 13 years now, there are too many towers that look like that here, that I don't find them attractive. But I also understand how that area of Tulsa has changed since I was last there. I would lean towards a Frank Loyd Wright style similar to the tower in B'ville (the name escapes me at the moment) based on the architecture of the homes and the buildings in the surrounding area. Or maybe something with a Deco flair to it, and maybe The Artist can help me with this, something in a craftsmen style, something to go more with the Swan Lake area. (The former Mrs. D'back loved that area of town because it is so diverse in the styles of homes.)
Quote from: dbacks fan on February 11, 2011, 10:51:23 PM
Don't get me wrong, I think it's because of living in Phoenix for 13 years now, there are too many towers that look like that here, that I don't find them attractive. But I also understand how that area of Tulsa has changed since I was last there. I would lean towards a Frank Loyd Wright style similar to the tower in B'ville (the name escapes me at the moment) based on the architecture of the homes and the buildings in the surrounding area. Or maybe something with a Deco flair to it, and maybe The Artist can help me with this, something in a craftsmen style, something to go more with the Swan Lake area. (The former Mrs. D'back loved that area of town because it is so diverse in the styles of homes.)
Price Tower.
I understand the thought behind wanting more deco, but I don't think that eeeverything needs to be deco. Even though I LOVE deco, I would rather see something more modern. Yes, if there were quite a few buildings like this in Tulsa, then I wouldn't want another just like it, but there aren't. Tulsa really has no buildings in that style. I think we need some more modern architecture here.
Quote from: ZYX on February 11, 2011, 10:58:31 PM
Price Tower.
I understand the thought behind wanting more deco, but I don't think that eeeverything needs to be deco. Even though I LOVE deco, I would rather see something more modern. Yes, if there were quite a few buildings like this in Tulsa, then I wouldn't want another just like it, but there aren't. Tulsa really has no buildings in that style. I think we need some more modern architecture here.
Price Tower. Thank you, I was thinking Philtower and I knew that it wasn't the right name. I actually have a picture of a portrait from Taliesen West of FLW with the drawings of the Price Tower in front of him.
I get the whole "modern/current" style of architecture, and there have been several jokes about it here in AZ, one was from the Sec. of The Interior Earl Butt's I think that "The crop rotation in Arizona is wheat, corn, soy beans, subdivision." and the other is how rapidily the desert was swallowed up by the "March of the red tiled roofs in every direction". I think that something similar to the second photo would work, and I understand that there is not a lot of the style of either in Tulsa, but it's just the old fart 34 year resident of Tulsa from '63 to '98 that my $.02 doesn't think it will fit that area.
Point taken. We will just have to agree to disagree. :) I hope this project materializes though.
Quote from: ZYX on February 11, 2011, 11:28:26 PM
Point taken. We will just have to agree to disagree. :) I hope this project materializes though.
I agree that we disagree. As I said, just my own $.02, and I do agree that some form of hotel/condo would be great in that location. After watching so much of midtown and areas around downtown die as I was growing up, and now reading about the rebirth of the area excites me. And I have found that when I will be in Tulsa for my 30th HS reunion, and the Drillers are in town that weekend, I am making plans to see a game at the new ballpark while I'm there.
Just curious: when was the last time you were in Tulsa?
Quote from: ZYX on February 11, 2011, 11:51:44 PM
Just curious: when was the last time you were in Tulsa?
I was last in Tulsa November '04 for my mothers funeral, and I didn't get to see alot of things I wanted to, and now I have time to come back and see things that have changed since. Most of what there is now was in it's infancy then, so quite a bit has changed. Most everything in the Blue Dome, Brady, and Cherry Street wasn't there or had not developed as much. Brookside was still mostly the same from when I left in '98, and downtown was still sleeping. I think there is a lot I will recognize, but it will be a lot different. I really want to see the BOk Center, I think that is the biggest change I'll see, but I think so much will just have a newness to it.
Boy, do we have something in store for you! Hope you like it...
Quote from: ZYX on February 12, 2011, 12:26:41 AM
Boy, do we have something in store for you! Hope you like it...
Like I said before, watched so much of Tulsa die and disappear, and have read about the changes, I look forward to it. Especially the Mayo Hotel, I was always afraid that it would disappear like so many others. Watched the death of the Camelot and saw video of it being torn down, and whe I saw it, all I could compare it to was having to put down a family pet that just could not make it any more, it was sad to see it go, but it was in such bad shape, that there was no other choice. It's funny, I haven't been back in almost seven years, and so much has changed, and yes I know there's good and bad, but it's kind of like seeing a relative that you haven't seen in years, and you know they've changed and grown, but there will be that familiar feeling again when you see them.
I had completely forgot about the Camelot until you said that. Wow.
Quote from: ZYX on February 12, 2011, 12:48:44 AM
I had completely forgot about the Camelot until you said that. Wow.
I graduated from Nathan Hale in 1981, and that is where we had our Prom and our senior breakfast, and my family drove past it countless times going to visit family in Edmond, or when my dad was involved in Pony/Colt Baseball at Reed Park, not to mention the years of cruising Brookside from the time I was 13 until cruising ws shut down in the early 80's. I still have people to this day ask me about Camelot since it had a brief scene in "Tex". I've also been asked about The Outsiders, Rumble Fish, and UHF. It's kind of wierd being asked about movies shot in Tulsa out here.
That scene in Tex where he stops and uses the pay phone with the Camalot in the background?
That was a prop pay phone. I went there after I saw the movie and tried to get my picture taken at the exact spot before I realized there was no phone there.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on February 12, 2011, 01:17:18 AM
That scene in Tex where he stops and uses the pay phone with the Camalot in the background?
That was a prop pay phone. I went there after I saw the movie and tried to get my picture taken at the exact spot before I realized there was no phone there.
Yes, that's the spot. But I think I may have the tri-fecta on this. As I said about my class of 81 from Hale and Prom, my brother played hockey with Ming Char, whose parents owned the Pagoda restaraunt on that corner of the Bel-Aire Shopping Center, and I drove past the scene while they were shooting it to visit a friend who was managing the Jet Self Serve gas station just north of the scene, and we wondered what the smoke was from, when it turned out to be from the lighting equipment.
Wait till you drive down Memorial south of the Creek Turnpike. That change is unbelieveable.
Quote from: dbacks fan on February 12, 2011, 01:35:00 AM
Yes, that's the spot. But I think I may have the tri-fecta on this. As I said about my class of 81 from Hale and Prom, my brother played hockey with Ming Char, whose parents owned the Pagoda restaraunt on that corner of the Bel-Aire Shopping Center, and I drove past the scene while they were shooting it to visit a friend who was managing the Jet Self Serve gas station just north of the scene, and we wondered what the smoke was from, when it turned out to be from the lighting equipment.
The Pagoda was owned by Virginia Torres and her husband. She was the music teacher at Eliot Elementary for years.
So it's looking like the gas station on the NE corner of 15th and Utica is closed again.
Anyone know it there are plans for the property?
I was also wondering about the old station on 15th West of the BA highway entance. It looks like the underground tanks were removed.
Quote from: Townsend on March 02, 2011, 02:01:16 PM
So it's looking like the gas station on the NE corner of 15th and Utica is closed again.
Anyone know it there are plans for the property?
I was also wondering about the old station on 15th West of the BA highway entance. It looks like the underground tanks were removed.
I don't know of any plans but it would make more sense to have the NE corner be a functional gas station and the NW corner part of the proposed medical office complex Bumgarner plans to build just to the north along Utica. I asked someone who knows Bumgarner once what he had planned for that site and he said mixed-use/office, similar to how Utica Place and Plaza are a mix of offices and residences. Something similar would be perfect for that NW corner of 15th & Utica with condos/apartments in a building there and a medical office building at the SW corner of 14th & Utica connected by an underground parking garage and courtyard, with townhomes facing Troost to the west. Bumgarner already developed the SW corner (Stillwater Nat'l Bank) and SE corner (Arvest) of 15th & Utica..
For ZYX and SXSW here are some pics of new buildings in the Tempe, Downtown Phoenix and Biltmore areas that fit the description of what you are talking about for the old H&P lot.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings018.jpg)
Tempe
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings017.jpg)
Tempe
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings016.jpg)
Tempe
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings034.jpg)
Downtown Phoenix
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings026.jpg)
Near downtwon Phoenix
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings024.jpg)
Downton Phoenix
And the Biltmore area
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings027.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings030.jpg)
Yeah, I really like all of those, except for the first one. My favorite was the last one though.
Thanks for posting.
Red one...my bad.
Quote from: dbacks fan on March 06, 2011, 06:48:52 PM
And the Biltmore area
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings027.jpg)
I would like to live here.
Most of those buildings appear to be horrid at street level. The HP site would be a great area to enhance the shopping/dining draw of Utica Square. Sure put a hotel and or condos above the first and second floors, but imo, you could greatly enhance the entire area by having more businesses/retail/dining along 21st, with a wide loggia to walk under, lots of windows and various business entrances, outdoor seating with the dining, etc.
What the building above looks like is not all that important. Its where the building meets the sidewalk, thats the most important part. Those are the kinds of pictures I like to see.
Fun with MS Paint...
The pink box is where the hotel/condo tower would be (where the H&P building once stood) facing the existing drive into the parking garage and plaza at 21st & Utica. The west side of the property would be developed into houses at the same density as the surrounding Swan Lake neighborhood with strict design guidelines i.e. no front-facing garages, similar setbacks/massing/materials, etc. There would be new houses built on 19th, and where 20th would be extended east, along a new street (Trenton) that would connect 19th to 21st, and larger lots along 21st west of the hotel. The hotel itself would have a restaurant facing 21st with outdoor seating.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/utica.jpg)
Got to step the density down between the larger building site and the existing neighborhood. I would develop out the street as you provide but line it with townhomes, even facing the neighborhood and the park. I know some in Swan Lake would balk but...townhomes aren't inherently incompatible across the street from single family homes.
Quote from: OurTulsa on March 07, 2011, 09:09:09 AM
Got to step the density down between the larger building site and the existing neighborhood. I would develop out the street as you provide but line it with townhomes, even facing the neighborhood and the park. I know some in Swan Lake would balk but...townhomes aren't inherently incompatible across the street from single family homes.
Maybe townhomes down 19th by the parking garage, or on the east side of "Trenton" adjacent to the parking garage and tower. Single family homes elsewhere on similar-sized lots as the rest of the neighborhood. The vocal Swan Lake neighborhood would also not balk as much about a possible 15+ story tower if the rest of the development is mostly houses providing a buffer for the historic district, the boundaries of which are St. Louis and 19th.
Quote from: TheArtist on March 07, 2011, 07:32:20 AM
What the building above looks like is not all that important. Its where the building meets the sidewalk, thats the most important part. Those are the kinds of pictures I like to see.
The third one from Tempe is still under consrtuction, but I believe that it will have business on the ground floors since it is just off of Mill Avenue.
The one from downtown Phoenix has shops and such on the ground floor, and I believe the the first one from the Biltmore area does as well. I will try to get some follow shots of those this weekend.
That lot on Norfolk just north of 15th was occupied by a derelict house. The dentist next door had a lot of trouble with transients due to that home. I can't speak for the design, but I think having a dense development there is at least a good first step. It will be interesting to see if they try and tie into the Midland Valley trail that runs to the north of that lot.
Some of the powers that be within the Helmerich family would love to see the lot on 21st be developed into a hotel on the level of a Ritz Carlton. However, it is my understanding that Mr Helmerich has no desire to do so, thus it won't get done. He also won't allow for any changes at Utica Square. He personally supervises the trimming of trees on the property, any of the leasehold improvements and what stores they allow in. For example, he refused to renew Brooks Brothers lease because he didn't think it was a strong enough tenant. They also wouldn't go after the Apple Store prior to it locating within Woodland Hills Mall. That one made my blood boil.
So does that mean there is no chance of a tower there?
Quote from: ZYX on March 07, 2011, 03:12:15 PM
So does that mean there is no chance of a tower there?
I don't think as long as Mr Helmerich is alive.
Quote from: rdj on March 07, 2011, 03:28:15 PM
I don't think as long as Mr Helmerich is alive.
Crap...I wonder why?
Quote from: rdj on March 07, 2011, 02:42:54 PM
That lot on Norfolk just north of 15th was occupied by a derelict house. The dentist next door had a lot of trouble with transients due to that home. I can't speak for the design, but I think having a dense development there is at least a good first step. It will be interesting to see if they try and tie into the Midland Valley trail that runs to the north of that lot.
Some of the powers that be within the Helmerich family would love to see the lot on 21st be developed into a hotel on the level of a Ritz Carlton. However, it is my understanding that Mr Helmerich has no desire to do so, thus it won't get done. He also won't allow for any changes at Utica Square. He personally supervises the trimming of trees on the property, any of the leasehold improvements and what stores they allow in. For example, he refused to renew Brooks Brothers lease because he didn't think it was a strong enough tenant. They also wouldn't go after the Apple Store prior to it locating within Woodland Hills Mall. That one made my blood boil.
Interesting insights. I've been wondering why Utica doesn't pursue a different mix of tenants. On a locavore level, a lot of the choices are very good, but from a big business sense . . . well, I've wondered for awhile now why there isn't a Whole Foods in there (and why Petty's is still around); or why there isn't another luxury department store (Bloomingdales, for instance), or why there's a Med X on the property.
Quote from: rdj on March 07, 2011, 03:28:15 PM
I don't think as long as Mr Helmerich is alive.
Walt? Utica Square is his baby, as he was the one who bought the shopping center in 1964. Hans (his son and the H&P CEO) would likely be the one to upgrade Utica Square and redevelop the property at 21st & Utica.
Walt has made and shepherded a good fortune, by being hands-on but he's a dinosaur in his thinking.
By the way, not every CVS looks the same ;)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings032.jpg)
Quote from: we vs us on March 07, 2011, 03:52:19 PM
Interesting insights. I've been wondering why Utica doesn't pursue a different mix of tenants. On a locavore level, a lot of the choices are very good, but from a big business sense . . . well, I've wondered for awhile now why there isn't a Whole Foods in there (and why Petty's is still around); or why there isn't another luxury department store (Bloomingdales, for instance), or why there's a Med X on the property.
I don't see another department store going in as long as Saks and Miss Jackson's are there. But I could see REI, West Elm and Crate & Barrel, to name a few. It would take some reconfiguring of the Square though. We have discussed this before but the "edges" could be better defined, for instance the SE corner of 21st & Utica could be redeveloped to come up to the sidewalk with a mix of stores where the F&M Bank/Bruce G Weber and parking lot are located north of Saks. The same could be said for the NE corner (where Cache and Valley Nat'l Bank are at 21st & Yorktown) and especially the SE corner which is the last "open" area in the shopping center and would be perfect for a larger-format store like REI and/or Crate & Barrel.
While Utica Square is still very nice and well-maintained, there are some areas where it could improve. The examples above and things like the crosswalks, where the paint has faded and probably should be replaced by brick pavers, are areas that would make it much better. It's already one of Tulsa's top attractions and a big reason the neighborhoods around it are the most desirable (and expensive) in the city.
Quote from: SXSW on March 07, 2011, 09:25:41 AM
Maybe townhomes down 19th by the parking garage, or on the east side of "Trenton" adjacent to the parking garage and tower. Single family homes elsewhere on similar-sized lots as the rest of the neighborhood. The vocal Swan Lake neighborhood would also not balk as much about a possible 15+ story tower if the rest of the development is mostly houses providing a buffer for the historic district, the boundaries of which are St. Louis and 19th.
What do you guys think of the market for townhomes and condos in and around these areas? It seems a lot are still available and many have lease and lease to own options and aren't moving too fast. We just sold our house in Owasso and are looking to move to this area and have been looking at these types of houses as well as traditional midtown houses.
I think the market for townhomes will increase in the next couple of years. Whether you choose one of these or a more traditional home I think you will enjoy the mid-town area.
Quote from: carltonplace on March 08, 2011, 09:53:34 AM
I think the market for townhomes will increase in the next couple of years. Whether you choose one of these or a more traditional home I think you will enjoy the mid-town area.
Yea, we are trying to figure out if the its slow because of the market in general or just Tulsa doesn't have much of a tradition of this type of housing. We are thinking about renting in one of the redone buildings downtown for a year or so and see how things play out if we don't find the right house in time to move out.
When we moved here in the mid 90's we were always in and around this area (midtown, brookside, white city, riverside) and really liked it then tried south tulsa and hated it, then have lived in owasso for much of the 2000's and want to get out of the suburbs and back to downtown/midtown.
Quote from: shaddow on March 08, 2011, 10:02:56 AM
Yea, we are trying to figure out if the its slow because of the market in general or just Tulsa doesn't have much of a tradition of this type of housing. We are thinking about renting in one of the redone buildings downtown for a year or so and see how things play out if we don't find the right house in time to move out.
When we moved here in the mid 90's we were always in and around this area (midtown, brookside, white city, riverside) and really liked it then tried south tulsa and hated it, then have lived in owasso for much of the 2000's and want to get out of the suburbs and back to downtown/midtown.
Midtown is more expensive which is one of the reasons you saw a lot of homes for sale as some people couldn't afford their mortgages and the ones who wanted to buy in midtown are priced out. Neighborhoods like Riverview, Swan Lake, Yorktown and Renaissance have seen fewer homes for sale, and the ones that are sell more quickly because they are midtown but cheaper than Maple Ridge, Terwilleger Heights, Brookside, etc. With gas prices higher and the Tulsa economy in much better shape I think you will see midtown become a hot market again and more of those larger, more expensive homes selling and also more infill like we saw in 2006-08. If you can find something in the Riverview or North Maple Ridge neighborhoods that is where I would buy because their value is getting ready to skyrocket sandwiched between the river, downtown and Cherry Street/Utica Square.
Quote from: SXSW on March 08, 2011, 10:15:15 AM
Midtown is more expensive which is one of the reasons you saw a lot of homes for sale as some people couldn't afford their mortgages and the ones who wanted to buy in midtown are priced out. Neighborhoods like Riverview, Swan Lake, Yorktown and Renaissance have seen fewer homes for sale, and the ones that are sell more quickly because they are midtown but cheaper than Maple Ridge, Terwilleger Heights, Brookside, etc. With gas prices higher and the Tulsa economy in much better shape I think you will see midtown become a hot market again and more of those larger, more expensive homes selling and also more infill like we saw in 2006-08. If you can find something in the Riverview or North Maple Ridge neighborhoods that is where I would buy because their value is getting ready to skyrocket sandwiched between the river, downtown and Cherry Street/Utica Square.
Thanks for the input. We have looked at the condos that are for sale at 19th and Boston with the rooftop decks, they look pretty nice. Just still a bit uneasy about how niche a market the condos will be if we ever have to sell. They kind of almost rule out anyone with kids so young professionals and empty nesters will be the majority of whats left. The condos on Cheery Street are, in comparison, a much more proven commodity, but still we wonder, with so many for sale in Tulsa, how the market for these will play out.
Quote from: shaddow on March 08, 2011, 10:30:09 AM
Thanks for the input. We have looked at the condos that are for sale at 19th and Boston with the rooftop decks, they look pretty nice. Just still a bit uneasy about how niche a market the condos will be if we ever have to sell. They kind of almost rule out anyone with kids so young professionals and empty nesters will be the majority of whats left. The condos on Cheery Street are, in comparison, a much more proven commodity, but still we wonder, with so many for sale in Tulsa, how the market for these will play out.
I wondered the same thing and passed on a townhouse instead buying a bungalow which I have extensively renovated near Cherry Street. I think the townhouses will start selling, especially the ones off 15th. I think Tulsan's would be more open to buying something like this either detached or duplex:
(http://static.flickr.com/114/250643593_74c584af9d.jpg)
than this:
(http://www.loftsatcherrystreet.com/image/1.jpg)
But unfortunately there aren't as many examples of the former available...yet. I'd love to see more street/sidewalk facing rowhomes/townhouses with garages behind (not to the side) like these:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/212/493216322_a1855770d5_z.jpg?zz=1)
Imagine Boulder Ave though Uptown between 18th and 16th with townhomes like these both sides...
(http://www.livablecommunitiescoalition.org/uploads/100016_projectImages/100025.jpg)
I love that last example you gave. Those are my favorite kind of rowhouse, and I think they would add a NYC/Chicago feel in and around downtown. I would nonhesitantly (I don't know if that's a word) buy one of those should we ever build any.
Quote from: ZYX on March 08, 2011, 03:10:25 PM
I love that last example you gave. Those are my favorite kind of rowhouse, and I think they would add a NYC/Chicago feel in and around downtown. I would nonhesitantly (I don't know if that's a word) buy one of those should we ever build any.
16th Boston, on the west side of Boston. Across the street from Don Jurick's place. Also 16th and Baltimore, and 16th and Main
Quote from: ZYX on March 08, 2011, 03:10:25 PM
I love that last example you gave. Those are my favorite kind of rowhouse, and I think they would add a NYC/Chicago feel in and around downtown. I would nonhesitantly (I don't know if that's a word) buy one of those should we ever build any.
Same here. I think many would feel better buying a home like that than one of those lofts where the front door is next to the garage off a shared driveway. The Uptown-Riverview area is ripe for this type of development. I'd like to see townhomes and condos surround Veterans Park someday, and redevelopment of the older apartments along Riverside into higher densities. If there is going to be riverfront "development" in Tulsa, let it be a redevelopment of the existing Riverview area which is basically a more residential extension of downtown.
Quote from: dbacks fan on March 07, 2011, 11:11:16 PM
By the way, not every CVS looks the same ;)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings032.jpg)
Looks like trolley tracks and an overhead wire.
Quote from: SXSW on March 08, 2011, 10:58:02 AM
I wondered the same thing and passed on a townhouse instead buying a bungalow which I have extensively renovated near Cherry Street. I think the townhouses will start selling, especially the ones off 15th. I think Tulsan's would be more open to buying something like this either detached or duplex:
(http://static.flickr.com/114/250643593_74c584af9d.jpg)
than this:
(http://www.loftsatcherrystreet.com/image/1.jpg)
But unfortunately there aren't as many examples of the former available...yet. I'd love to see more street/sidewalk facing rowhomes/townhouses with garages behind (not to the side) like these:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/212/493216322_a1855770d5_z.jpg?zz=1)
Imagine Boulder Ave though Uptown between 18th and 16th with townhomes like these both sides...
(http://www.livablecommunitiescoalition.org/uploads/100016_projectImages/100025.jpg)
I don't care for either of the first two. If I had to live in "the city" either of the bottom two would be acceptable.
One of my cousins lived in Boston in the late 70s in this building. It was OK. It needed a bit of renovation to be nice as far as the building was concerned. It was not too far from the real "Cheers" bar.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Commonwealth+Avenue,+Boston,+MA&aq=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=60.288153,129.990234&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Commonwealth+Ave,+Boston,+Massachusetts&ll=42.352789,-71.073808&spn=0.006985,0.015868&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.352789,-71.073808&panoid=tTNjaoLVqRlZscUJvYq3SA&cbp=12,115.91,,0,-17.5
Things I learned yesterday:
1. There is a small grocery store going into an existing structure downtown
2. 1st Street Lofts has been re-designed to accommodate smaller apartments to keep costs down for renters interested in living DT but can't spend a house payment
3. The new hotel at the old city hall will be completed first and then the apartments at the YMCA will start work
4. The reconciliation building by the John Hope Franklin Park will start raising capital this Summer
5. There is a Tulsa Geoscience Center at 517 S Main Street, 3rd Floor; Energy America Education Institute
- it's cool because it's all hands on for kids to get them interested in science
- I recommend going by with your 4thish-5thish graders (open to all ages though)
- they'll have a display at Mayfest at 6th and Main in the KidsZone
That's what I could pop off from memory in a few short minutes.
Quote from: Townsend on March 23, 2011, 09:44:19 AM
Things I learned yesterday:
1. There is a small grocery store going into an existing structure downtown
2. 1st Street Lofts has been re-designed to accommodate smaller apartments to keep costs down for renters interested in living DT but can't spend a house payment
3. The new hotel at the old city hall will be completed first and then the apartments at the YMCA will start work
4. The reconciliation building by the John Hope Franklin Park will start raising capital this Summer
5. There is a Tulsa Geoscience Center at 517 S Main Street, 3rd Floor; Energy America Education Institute
- it's cool because it's all hands on for kids to get them interested in science
- I recommend going by with your 4thish-5thish graders (open to all ages though)
- they'll have a display at Mayfest at 6th and Main in the KidsZone
That's what I could pop off from memory in a few short minutes.
Major epiphany you had there. ;D
(http://www.martingordon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/the_more_you_know.jpg)
Quote from: Conan71 on March 23, 2011, 09:50:24 AM
Major epiphany you had there. ;D
(http://www.martingordon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/the_more_you_know.jpg)
I apologize if all that has already been discussed.
Quote from: Townsend on March 23, 2011, 10:07:30 AM
I apologize if all that has already been discussed.
Yanking yer chain buddy. That's a lot of good info in one day. Was there a development forum or something you went to?
Quote from: dbacks fan on March 07, 2011, 11:11:16 PM
By the way, not every CVS looks the same ;)
The footprint for the new one at 21st & Harvard is in place, all the parking is up front.
Quote from: Conan71 on March 23, 2011, 10:26:43 AM
Yanking yer chain buddy. That's a lot of good info in one day. Was there a development forum or something you went to?
Yes. It was informative and pretty exciting.
Oh, and the developers were all surprised to find out there's a new position at city hall. A development secretary. Apparently named Crystal. I can't remember her last name. I think she needs to get out there and introduce herself to some of these guys developing since she's the city's liaison to development.
Quote from: patric on March 23, 2011, 10:35:26 AM
The footprint for the new one at 21st & Harvard is in place, all the parking is up front.
A shame, not a surprise but a shame.
Quote from: Townsend on March 23, 2011, 10:46:26 AM
Yes. It was informative and pretty exciting.
Oh, and the developers were all surprised to find out there's a new position at city hall. A development secretary. Apparently named Crystal. I can't remember her last name. I think she needs to get out there and introduce herself to some of these guys developing since she's the city's liaison to development.
People being aware of her existing isn't important. This is the government, what's important is that she's got a spot on the payroll. Maybe if I wasn't so harshly critical of our politicians at every turn I could have a $125K per year job with no real defined duties or expectations. Sort of like Bartlet's (sic) old school buddy who is not his communications director. Luckiest guy since Ringo Starr. What a gig!
(http://www.livablecommunitiescoalition.org/uploads/100016_projectImages/100025.jpg)
I'd love to see new brownstones in all of the empty spaces between 12th and 8th, Denver to Cheyenne.
Quote from: carltonplace on March 23, 2011, 11:28:12 AM
(http://www.livablecommunitiescoalition.org/uploads/100016_projectImages/100025.jpg)
I'd love to see new brownstones in all of the empty spaces between 12th and 8th, Denver to Cheyenne.
Agree.
I wish they had done that throughout the Cherry St. area instead of the incongruous moderns amongst 1920's craftsmen and red brick apartment buildings.
Any word on which building the grocery will go in?
Also, did you hear which brand the Snyders chose for OCH? I heard that several were up for consideration.
Quote from: ZYX on March 23, 2011, 03:12:46 PM
Any word on which building the grocery will go in?
Also, did you hear which brand the Snyders chose for OCH? I heard that several were up for consideration.
Yeah, they told us but I wasn't told I could elaborate so I feel like I should keep it in for now, sorry. We were told it would be a store to get a couple of bags of groceries, not 20 bags like a Reasor's et al. You could get diapers, cold meds, food to make that night and the next day...a city market. (deli, meats, fresh produce, etc.)
I forgot to ask about the hotel brand...dammit. I need to write these things down.
Oh, well. That's fine. I'm sure there will be an announcement soon.
Quote from: Townsend on March 23, 2011, 03:17:39 PM
Yeah, they told us but I wasn't told I could elaborate so I feel like I should keep it in for now, sorry. We were told it would be a store to get a couple of bags of groceries, not 20 bags like a Reasor's et al. You could get diapers, cold meds, food to make that night and the next day...a city market. (deli, meats, fresh produce, etc.)
I forgot to ask about the hotel brand...dammit. I need to write these things down.
Can I like, buy
a case of Sudafed at 2am there?
Quote from: Townsend on March 23, 2011, 03:17:39 PM
Yeah, they told us but I wasn't told I could elaborate so I feel like I should keep it in for now, sorry. We were told it would be a store to get a couple of bags of groceries, not 20 bags like a Reasor's et al. You could get diapers, cold meds, food to make that night and the next day...a city market. (deli, meats, fresh produce, etc.)
I forgot to ask about the hotel brand...dammit. I need to write these things down.
Wasn't it going to an aLoft, that's what the Synder's said some time ago.
Quote from: carltonplace on March 23, 2011, 11:28:12 AM
(http://www.livablecommunitiescoalition.org/uploads/100016_projectImages/100025.jpg)
I'd love to see new brownstones in all of the empty spaces between 12th and 8th, Denver to Cheyenne.
I would so live in something like that. It only exists in a few areas in Tulsa like the Brownstones at Central Park and along Carson south of 18th. I also prefer front-facing to the driveway/alley-facing lofts that have been built around Cherry Street and Uptown.
Quote from: swake on March 23, 2011, 03:46:23 PM
Wasn't it going to an aLoft, that's what the Synder's said some time ago.
That's what I hear, too.
Unfortunately, due to the paywall, I don't have access to the article online, but ripped from the pages of Tulsa World:
There's a proposal calling for private money to re-stripe Cherry St. between Quaker & Troost into a two lane street with parallel parking on the south side and angled parking on the north side. This configuration will increase on street parking spots in that area from about 40 to 109 total.
As well, La Madeleine French Cafe is opening a restaurant on the NW corner of 15th & St. Louis.
There's some major WIN for Cherry St. and a good commitment to making access to it easier for patrons.
Camille's will indeed become Mi Cocina, to open sometime this fall:
Mi Cocina to open on Cherry Street this fall
By KYLE ARNOLD World Staff Writer
Published: 7/7/2011 7:39 PM
Last Modified: 7/7/2011 11:30 PM
Upscale Mexican restaurant chain Mi Cocina is gearing up for its new Cherry Street location, the first outside of metro Dallas.
Contractors are working on plans to convert the former Camille's Sidewalk Cafe at 1342 E. 15th St. into the full-service Tex-Mex restaurant.
Mi Cocina could open by mid-October, said Clay McAfee, director of operations for M Crowd Restaurant Group Inc., the Irving, Texas-based parent company.
"We've always wanted to come to Tulsa, and the Cherry Street area is the place that we want to be," McAfee said.
Mi Cocina serves contemporary Tex-Mex cuisine such as brisket tacos, enchiladas and carne asada.
"We like to think of it as the Neiman Marcus of Mexican food," McAfee said. "We make everything from scratch and we bring in fresh meat everyday."
The new restaurant, which was announced in January, will have about 75 employees, including a 50- to 60-member wait staff.
Most Mi Cocina restaurants have large footprints and are decorated with modern furniture and stylings. The contemporary motif will continue with the Cherry Street site, but the site will be smaller than most Texas locations.
The company is spending about $1 million on renovations at the site, according to building permit records.
A patio seating area is planned, along with doors that will open the restaurant to the outside when the weather cooperates, McAfee said.
Mi Cocina has been pursued by developers in several markets, but McAfee said M Crowd chose Tulsa because of the large base of Mi Cocina customers in the area who are familiar with the Dallas versions.
"It's funny because sometimes you feel like the pretty girl at the dance," he said. "Everybody seems to want you, but we want to take it slow."
The company is working on a possible Mi Cocina location in the Houston area, McAfee said.
The company has 23 restaurants, including 15 Mi Cocina restaurants in the Dallas area. The first restaurant opened in 1991.
M Crowd also operates at fast-casual chain known as Taco Diner, and The Mercury restaurant.
Thank goodness for a TEX MEX option on Cherry Street besides QDOBA, Chipoltle's, Chimi's! Now if we could only get an italian/pizza place besides Mary's, Tucci's, Andolini's and Hideaway.
Quote from: carltonplace on July 08, 2011, 10:00:16 AM
Thank goodness for a TEX MEX option on Cherry Street besides QDOBA, Chipoltle's, Chimi's! Now if we could only get an italian/pizza place besides Mary's, Tucci's, Andolini's and Hideaway.
I am hoping we could get a Wendy's and a Burger King next to What-a-burger and McDonalds
Quote from: RecycleMichael on July 08, 2011, 10:18:16 AM
I am hoping we could get a Wendy's and a Burger King next to What-a-burger and McDonalds
Wow, talk about a draw. A tourist Mecca is what that would be.
I'm pleased it's not a cell phone store or a CVS.
Phat Phillies......
LuLulemon....
Quote from: hello on July 11, 2011, 08:23:15 AM
Really?! That would be awesome.
Per their Facebook page, Lululemon is opening September 23 in the old Wanda's Cakes space next to Ascent on 15th. They will also occupy the upstairs portion and will have a rooftop yoga studio.
Lots of construction happening at Mi Cocina but they still appear to be a few months from opening...definitely not August like they originally said. And all of the tenants where La Madeleine is going in have moved out and it looks like they have started some interior demolition there. Not sure when they plan on opening.
Pearl District Association FB post from today:
QuoteYou're all invited to attend a public groundbreaking ceremony for The Phoenix Cafe tomorrow morning at 10:00 am at 6th and Peoria! Come out and help celebrate new business in The Pearl ~
Huzzah to Phoenix Cafe!
Back to Cherry Street . . . the three storefronts that have been demo'ed just west of Full Moon, what are those supposed to be?
Quote from: we vs us on October 31, 2011, 10:35:57 AM
Huzzah to Phoenix Cafe!
Back to Cherry Street . . . the three storefronts that have been demo'ed just west of Full Moon, what are those supposed to be?
That is going to become a http://www.lamadeleine.com/ (http://www.lamadeleine.com/) French Country Cafe.
Quote from: joiei on October 31, 2011, 11:27:51 AM
That is going to become a http://www.lamadeleine.com/ (http://www.lamadeleine.com/) French Country Cafe.
Ah yes, I remember hearing about his. Good stuff.
Quote from: Townsend on October 31, 2011, 10:19:25 AM
Pearl District Association FB post from today:
This will be a great thing for this strip in the Pearl. By the way I love the stringing white lights above the street over 6th at Quincy (near the 6 Art Bar and the Eclipse).
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2011/20111102_BZ-Phoenix1102.jpg)
Their planned offerings include a full bar, which will provide more options for those who aren't necessarily into coffee, as well as the chance to incorporate alcoholic shots into espressos, Ewing said.
He's also working with local coffee roaster Topeca Coffee to create a signature blend for The Phoenix.
Food offerings include fresh-made bagels, produce from local farmers markets, unique cream cheese spreads and other items.
Ewing said The Phoenix will have a fire theme, both figuratively and literally, in addition to warm, inviting colors. The facility will feature a fire pit along one wall, and customers will be able to cook s'mores and dessert fondue over fires at their tables, he said.
But numerous used paperbacks, local books, periodicals and comic books will be part of the decor, as well. http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=32&articleid=20111102_32_E1_CUTLIN830080 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=32&articleid=20111102_32_E1_CUTLIN830080)
This also caught my eye from the TW article:
As usual, The Phoenix isn't the only new creation on Ewing's mind. He's finishing up work on Archer Market, a grocery store and dining concept in the Detroit Lofts building at 307 E. Archer St., which should be finished in January.
And he's already got ideas for a five-screen movie theater with a restaurant and bar to be located somewhere downtown.
Quote from: SXSW on November 02, 2011, 11:26:33 AM
This also caught my eye from the TW article:
As usual, The Phoenix isn't the only new creation on Ewing's mind. He's finishing up work on Archer Market, a grocery store and dining concept in the Detroit Lofts building at 307 E. Archer St., which should be finished in January.
And he's already got ideas for a five-screen movie theater with a restaurant and bar to be located somewhere downtown.
Squee
Another new business is coming to Cherry St. - a combination wine bar and art class. Projected to Open March 2012.
For those who may want to mix some merlot with Monet or Pinot Grigio with Picasso, a franchise moving into Tulsa can help them celebrate their love of art and alcohol.
Texas-based "paint and sip" concept Pinot's Palette is preparing for a March opening on Cherry Street, pairing artful wine tasting with social painting.
Pinot's Palette is a simple pairing of beginner art sessions with wine tasting, accomplished at two- to three-hour classes nightly and on weekends.
"We provide the easel, the canvas, the paint and the wine," said owner Lisa Riley. "It's an entertainment genre that is really spreading across the country."
Pinot's Palette will be located at 1621 E. 15th St., between Mongolian restaurant Genghis Grill and women's apparel retailer Rope. The 1,800-square-foot space has direct access to a parking lot behind the building.
Pinot's Palette got its start in Houston in 2009 as a small art studio that allowed customers to bring their own alcohol and food while enjoying amateur art instruction.
The exact concept wouldn't work in Oklahoma, since liquor laws prohibit BYOB establishments, but Riley is building a wine and beer bar while still allowing customers to supply their own food.
"They can order pizza or bring food from home, but we have just about everything else taken care of," she said.
Two Pinot's Palette locations are operating in Houston, with another in Dallas and a fourth in Katy, Texas. The Cherry Street franchise will be the first outside Texas.
Riley was introduced to the concept while she was working with clients in the oil and gas industry in Houston. A Tulsa native who worked for ConocoPhillips, she said she moved back specifically to open the Pinot's Palette franchise.
During each session, two instructors walk students through the process of re-creating artistic masterpieces such as Vincent van Gogh's "Starry Night" or Claude Monet's "San Giorgio Maggiore at Dusk."
"A lot of people think it's not for guys," Riley said, "but women bring their husbands, and they're comparing their trees and brush strokes by the end of the class."
Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=53&articleid=20111228_53_E1_CUTLIN11920
Quote from: DTowner on December 28, 2011, 01:44:00 PM
Another new business is coming to Cherry St. - a combination wine bar and art class. Projected to Open March 2012.
Could be fun
if I had any artistic talent. Too bad I don't.
Quote from: Red Arrow on December 28, 2011, 01:49:43 PM
Could be fun if I had any artistic talent. Too bad I don't.
With enough wine, you might find your hidden talents....
Quote from: DTowner on December 28, 2011, 01:53:18 PM
With enough wine, you might find your hidden talents....
I don't like getting sick.
Quote from: Red Arrow on December 28, 2011, 02:14:38 PM
I don't like getting sick.
Eat something with lots of color before hand and aim at the easel.
Quote from: Townsend on December 28, 2011, 02:16:47 PM
Eat something with lots of color before hand and aim at the easel.
Might be good art but I am an unwilling participant. I expect that those around me wouldn't appreciate it either.
I have long accepted that I have no artistic talent and no musical talent. The amount of alcohol I am willing to consume does not change my opinion.
Quote from: Red Arrow on December 28, 2011, 02:33:37 PM
Might be good art but I am an unwilling participant. I expect that those around me wouldn't appreciate it either.
I have long accepted that I have no artistic talent and no musical talent. The amount of alcohol I am willing to consume does not change my opinion.
Huh...I become the most amazing human on the planet.
On Cherry Street the Zoller Design building is vacant and has some significant exterior work going on. The design studio left some time ago. Any word on what is going in? The zoning permit on the window indicates retail.
http://tulsabusiness.com/business_news/guffeys_report/guffey-s-new-japanese-restaurant-with-retail-spaces-to-provide/article_50f148a4-6b36-11e2-bfb1-0019bb30f31a.html (http://tulsabusiness.com/business_news/guffeys_report/guffey-s-new-japanese-restaurant-with-retail-spaces-to-provide/article_50f148a4-6b36-11e2-bfb1-0019bb30f31a.html)
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsabusiness.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/ec/7ecfc64c-6b36-11e2-b9d0-0019bb30f31a/5109b06a2cd6a.image.jpg)
QuoteThe new Zanmai Japanese restaurant at 1402 S. Peoria Ave. is still under construction with no word on its completion date.
Decent sized development coming to Brookside....
Quote from: Breadburner on February 01, 2013, 04:40:51 PM
Decent sized development coming to Brookside....
Would you be so kind as to elaborate? ;D
Upscale women's sportswear.....
Another Lulu?
Between this and the Arts and Humanities building downtown, I guess I just don't get modern architecture. Why is symetry seemingly frowned upon these days? I'm glad its there though and hope that it signals an expansion of Cherry Street that direction.
Quote from: DowntownDan on February 04, 2013, 11:17:02 AM
Between this and the Arts and Humanities building downtown, I guess I just don't get modern architecture. Why is symetry seemingly frowned upon these days? I'm glad its there though and hope that it signals an expansion of Cherry Street that direction.
I will take this over the eye roofs that you see on just about every new major construction in the county (OSU health building, Owasso Y, Owasso Tech for a couple examples)
Quote from: JCnOwasso on February 04, 2013, 11:20:54 AM
I will take this over the eye roofs that you see on just about every new major construction in the county (OSU health building, Owasso Y, Owasso Tech for a couple examples)
in the making....
Quote from: Townsend on February 01, 2013, 02:37:18 PM
http://tulsabusiness.com/business_news/guffeys_report/guffey-s-new-japanese-restaurant-with-retail-spaces-to-provide/article_50f148a4-6b36-11e2-bfb1-0019bb30f31a.html (http://tulsabusiness.com/business_news/guffeys_report/guffey-s-new-japanese-restaurant-with-retail-spaces-to-provide/article_50f148a4-6b36-11e2-bfb1-0019bb30f31a.html)
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsabusiness.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/ec/7ecfc64c-6b36-11e2-b9d0-0019bb30f31a/5109b06a2cd6a.image.jpg)
One of the old residential quadplexes across the street from this development was getting a new roof this weekend and looks to have fresh paint on the front. New or upgraded residential I assume. There is a similar one next door that could use some upgrading if Cherry Street is going to move in that direction.
Quote from: DowntownDan on March 12, 2013, 03:38:48 PM
One of the old residential quadplexes across the street from this development was getting a new roof this weekend and looks to have fresh paint on the front. New or upgraded residential I assume. There is a similar one next door that could use some upgrading if Cherry Street is going to move in that direction.
I've heard that the owner of the new Japanese restaurant property also owns the cool old apartments accross the street. The apartment facelift is only to make the patrons of the new construction feel at ease. I bet the life of these apartment buildings is not long term...I'm certain the property owner has other plans for them.
Yes...LuLu Lemon is going into Centre One.
Quote from: carltonplace on March 13, 2013, 10:53:48 AM
I've heard that the owner of the new Japanese restaurant property also owns the cool old apartments accross the street. The apartment facelift is only to make the patrons of the new construction feel at ease. I bet the life of these apartment buildings is not long term...I'm certain the property owner has other plans for them.
Which "cool" old apartments do you mean? There are three sets of apartment buildings between Palace Cafe & Moore Funeral Home. All three have different owners.
Quote from: Teatownclown on March 13, 2013, 12:03:46 PM
Yes...LuLu Lemon is going into Centre One.
Adios to the neat waterfall.
Rumors are that the Snail is going away (future plans for the location are unknown to me) and White Owl is closing and reopening as a seafood place under the McNellies Group.
Anyone able to confirm?
Sauerkraut, this has little to nothing to do with QT.
Quote from: Townsend on July 19, 2013, 08:36:01 AM
Rumors are that the Snail is going away (future plans for the location are unknown to me) and White Owl is closing and reopening as a seafood place under the McNellies Group.
Anyone able to confirm?
Sauerkraut, this has little to nothing to do with QT.
Awesome. Both of those places are mediocre.
I love the Grey Snail for happy hour. Not so much after that when the popped collar crowd comes out (unless that's changed). I like White Owl and I'd hate to see it go.
Zanmai at 14th & Peoria opening in August.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/post.aspx/Zanmai_restaurant_scheduled_to_open_in_August/21477 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/post.aspx/Zanmai_restaurant_scheduled_to_open_in_August/21477)
Quote from: SXSW on July 30, 2013, 12:18:09 PM
Zanmai at 14th & Peoria opening in August.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/post.aspx/Zanmai_restaurant_scheduled_to_open_in_August/21477 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/post.aspx/Zanmai_restaurant_scheduled_to_open_in_August/21477)
About time! It's been under construction for a while. I think this place will have the best views in town.
The former White Owl has new signage. Will be called "The Pint." I hope they have a good craft beer selection and good bar food. Anyone know who is behind the new venture?
An answer to my question from today's Tulsa World. I'm hoping for good results. I like the location and like that they have made some changes. I also like the emphasis on local craft beer. Lots of good stuff being made locally these days.
Table Talk: The Pint on Cherry Street to open in a few weeks
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Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:24 am
BY SCOTT CHERRY World Scene Writer | 0 comments
Chef Andres Comacho expects to open The Pint on Cherry Street, 1325 E. 15th St., in a few weeks.
"I would like to get open before the end of June," he said recently while working on final details for the new restaurant-pub. "We will have a varied menu. I hesitate to say upscale, but it will be good, fresh food. We also will have vegetarian and gluten-free choices."
He said entrees will range from $8.50 to $22.
Comacho, who came to Tulsa about six years ago from Pennsylvania, has worked at Southern Hills Country Club, Bodean Seafood and Trula at the Mayo Hotel.
Most recently he said he spent a year and a half as banquet chef at Southern Hills.
The Pint will be located in space formerly occupied by White Owl. The space has undergone an extensive remodel.
It has new woodwork throughout, new concrete framing around the entrance, new bathrooms and a new bar top. It still has a long bar in the shotgun space on the ground floor and second-level dining upstairs.
"We have created more dining space upstairs where there used to be a pool table," Comacho said.
Comacho said The Pint will have a full bar and a large selection of Oklahoma craft beers. He also stressed he wants a family friendly ambience.
"We want everyone to be comfortable," said Comacho, who was trained at Le Cordon Bleu Institute of Culinary Arts in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
The Pint will be open 11 a.m. to 2 a.m. seven days a week.
Scott Cherry 918-581-8463
scott.cherry@tulsaworld.com
Sounds intriguing and worth a try. I wonder if he will have any public epic melt downs with the health inspectors?
Quote from: Conan71 on May 27, 2014, 03:58:02 PM
Sounds intriguing and worth a try. I wonder if he will have any public epic melt downs with the health inspectors?
Is that what happened to White Owl? I rarely went there but it seemed to do decent business. I was there once early in its run and there was a bad smell coming from somewhere, like being downwind from a garbage dumpster. My wife wouldn't let us ever go back. I always thought it was just a one time thing and we happened to be the wrong table at the wrong time.
Quote from: DowntownDan on May 28, 2014, 09:04:55 AM
Is that what happened to White Owl? I rarely went there but it seemed to do decent business. I was there once early in its run and there was a bad smell coming from somewhere, like being downwind from a garbage dumpster. My wife wouldn't let us ever go back. I always thought it was just a one time thing and we happened to be the wrong table at the wrong time.
No, I was riffing on the apocalyptic start up at Shotgun Sam's.
Far as I know the White Owl was doing great business, we ate there a few times, but nothing compelling that made me a regular.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 28, 2014, 09:16:41 AM
No, I was riffing on the apocalyptic start up at Shotgun Sam's.
Far as I know the White Owl was doing great business, we ate there a few times, but nothing compelling that made me a regular.
I was told it was the building owner's choice to end the business relationship with White Owl.
Quote from: Townsend on May 28, 2014, 09:38:51 AM
I was told it was the building owner's choice to end the business relationship with White Owl.
Wow, a restuarant claiming to have "lost its lease" really lost its lease.
Quote from: Townsend on May 28, 2014, 09:38:51 AM
I was told it was the building owner's choice to end the business relationship with White Owl.
I had heard that there was a domestic split reason for its demise.
Quote from: carltonplace on May 28, 2014, 01:22:39 PM
I had heard that there was a domestic split reason for its demise.
#dontbangthehiredhelp?
Quote from: carltonplace on May 28, 2014, 01:22:39 PM
I had heard that there was a domestic split reason for its demise.
I will not claim my source as irrefutable.
Thought I heard that White Owl was relocating to Brookside? Yes? No? Maybe?
Quote from: Stanley1 on May 28, 2014, 04:07:31 PM
Thought I heard that White Owl was relocating to Brookside? Yes? No? Maybe?
I had heard that too. I honestly can't remember, is there anything where the Ivey was with the rooftop patio? That could be a good spot. Or where Garlic Rose used to be.
Quote from: Townsend on May 28, 2014, 09:38:51 AM
I was told it was the building owner's choice to end the business relationship with White Owl.
Quote from: carltonplace on May 28, 2014, 01:22:39 PM
I had heard that there was a domestic split reason for its demise.
I heard both of these.
Townsend is right....Don't piss off the landlord.....
Anything happening with the Gray Snail space?
Quote from: Townsend on June 11, 2014, 10:29:44 AM
Anything happening with the Gray Snail space?
When did the Slug Trail go out?
Quote from: Conan71 on June 11, 2014, 11:01:25 AM
When did the Slug Trail go out?
This past weekend apparently.
I've been informed it's doing the furniture store thing and re-opening as something called 15 Below.
Quote from: Townsend on June 11, 2014, 11:09:16 AM
This past weekend apparently.
I've been informed it's doing the furniture store thing and re-opening as something called 15 Below.
Wow, the Snail was a sh!tty bar institution in this town. Where will all the DBs go now? I need to know what to avoid now.
The Gray Snail was great for happy hour. Then the popped collars would start showing up around 8 and it was time to leave. Something called "15 Below" seems to me to be in furtherance of this crowd but maybe I'm wrong.
Quote from: swake on June 11, 2014, 11:19:13 AM
Wow, the Snail was a sh!tty bar institution in this town. Where will all the DBs go now? I need to know what to avoid now.
It's being gutted and going non-smoking per my source.
That seems several years late.
Quote from: Townsend on June 11, 2014, 02:15:46 PM
It's being gutted and going non-smoking per my source.
That seems several years late.
I'd think you'd need to gut it to the bare shell to get the smoke smell out of that place.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 11, 2014, 03:22:27 PM
I'd think you'd need to gut it to the bare shell to get the smoke smell out of that place.
And the elevator shaft, stairwell, parts of Jason's Deli, Acrobatant, rip out the bushes and sprinkle moth balls on the patio.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 11, 2014, 03:22:27 PM
I'd think you'd need to gut it to the bare shell to get the smoke smell out of that place.
So, it was a casino, too, huh...?
Quote from: DowntownDan on May 27, 2014, 02:27:14 PM
An answer to my question from today's Tulsa World. I'm hoping for good results. I like the location and like that they have made some changes. I also like the emphasis on local craft beer. Lots of good stuff being made locally these days.
Table Talk: The Pint on Cherry Street to open in a few weeks
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Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:24 am
BY SCOTT CHERRY World Scene Writer | 0 comments
Chef Andres Comacho expects to open The Pint on Cherry Street, 1325 E. 15th St., in a few weeks.
"I would like to get open before the end of June," he said recently while working on final details for the new restaurant-pub. "We will have a varied menu. I hesitate to say upscale, but it will be good, fresh food. We also will have vegetarian and gluten-free choices."
He said entrees will range from $8.50 to $22.
Comacho, who came to Tulsa about six years ago from Pennsylvania, has worked at Southern Hills Country Club, Bodean Seafood and Trula at the Mayo Hotel.
Most recently he said he spent a year and a half as banquet chef at Southern Hills.
The Pint will be located in space formerly occupied by White Owl. The space has undergone an extensive remodel.
It has new woodwork throughout, new concrete framing around the entrance, new bathrooms and a new bar top. It still has a long bar in the shotgun space on the ground floor and second-level dining upstairs.
"We have created more dining space upstairs where there used to be a pool table," Comacho said.
Comacho said The Pint will have a full bar and a large selection of Oklahoma craft beers. He also stressed he wants a family friendly ambience.
"We want everyone to be comfortable,” said Comacho, who was trained at Le Cordon Bleu Institute of Culinary Arts in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
The Pint will be open 11 a.m. to 2 a.m. seven days a week.
Scott Cherry 918-581-8463
scott.cherry@tulsaworld.com
Mitch Neely, who was the original chef at The Alley, has now signed on. Between Comacho and Neely, the menu should be outstanding. According to The Pint's FB page, they will open this coming Monday.
...And if you liked the White Owl, you will like The Pint.
Menu did not meet my expectations with the pedigree of the owner and chef. Pretty unimaginative. Good food, just nothing that was that memorable. We had pesto chicken wings as an app, had a slight curry aroma, flavor was rather bland. The "pesto" was chopped parsley sprinkled over the wings served over some butter and garlic sauce. MC had fish tacos, well-cooked but no real flavor. The accompanying salsa was unremarkable and disappeared in the taco. I had fish and chips. The fillets were ample and cooked just right. Loved the breading. The "chips" just common fries and too much at that. The fish in F & C was similar to what Paddy's and The Alley both used to serve. So if I need an F & C fix, I'll return since there's not many choices for credible F & C style fish in Tulsa.
I wouldn't say the menu sucks, it's just not what I'm looking for when we go out. I want something creative, memorable, and as MC says "Crave-able". The menu has a broad appeal, I simply had higher expectations with Andreas and Mitch's backgrounds. Turns out Mitch is just on hand to help get the kitchen up and running. He's not there for creative input.
It's been long enough since I was in the White Owl that the changes were really imperceptible to me, but it's got a fresh look and should be a great place to grab a craft beer with friends.
The service was outstanding. For being the third day open, I was really impressed how well their system works. We saw college age kids, middle agers, young couples with young children, and people our parent's age. A very diverse crowd, which I think is a good sign.
Conan nails it. For me, the Pint is White Owl 2. Nice space, normal menu, food was good... But nothing really original. My expectations were higher.
Same chair set up? I really just look for places like that to watch the game.
Looks like Full Moon isn't opening back up. They said initially that they were renovating, but I read this morning that they are auctioning off all their equipment. The pianos were fun and the outdoor patio was neat, but the food was bad and the beer selection was lean. "World famous" tortilla soup? More like Pace picante sauce and milk. It was terrible. The brunch was about all that was worth eating there. And the limited beer selection just wasn't keeping up with the times.
I learned recently that Cherry Street has some of the highest rent in Tulsa so I can't imagine it'll be vacant for too long. Hopefully something neat and innovative opens up. Would prefer something local but if its a chain hopefully it's something unique and urban and not a Jimmy Johns or something lame. The patio alone should have people interested.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 22, 2015, 09:11:32 AM
Looks like Full Moon isn't opening back up. They said initially that they were renovating, but I read this morning that they are auctioning off all their equipment. The pianos were fun and the outdoor patio was neat, but the food was bad and the beer selection was lean. "World famous" tortilla soup? More like Pace picante sauce and milk. It was terrible. The brunch was about all that was worth eating there. And the limited beer selection just wasn't keeping up with the times.
I learned recently that Cherry Street has some of the highest rent in Tulsa so I can't imagine it'll be vacant for too long. Hopefully something neat and innovative opens up. Would prefer something local but if its a chain hopefully it's something unique and urban and not a Jimmy Johns or something lame. The patio alone should have people interested.
I have heard recently that these people http://www.sandbburgers.com/ have been sniffing around the Tulsa area for a location. I don't know anything about them, was just told they were looking for "a few spots" in and around Tulsa to expand into. Perhaps the old Full Moon would be a good spot for them.
S & B looks interesting - there is one close to my central OK traffic pattern....may have to try it out.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on September 22, 2015, 09:41:55 AM
S & B looks interesting - there is one close to my central OK traffic pattern....may have to try it out.
I looked them up when I was first told they were looking here. Haven't had a chance to make it to the OKC area since then, but I may be down there this weekend or next and will have to try one out if I stumble across one.
One location that was mentioned to me as a possible Tulsa area location is the abandoned steak house, whatever it was, at 121st and Memorial in Bixby. I drove by there the other day and it appeared work was being done inside the building so maybe there is some truth to what I was told. Time will tell. Since that place, Sante Fe I think, closed there have been constant rumors of something moving in there. It wasn't long ago that it was mentioned as possible spot for another Oklahoma Joe's.
We met a friend at SMOKE last night for dinner and I'm always amazed at how busy Cherry St. is even on a Monday night.
Quote from: Conan71 on September 22, 2015, 10:03:27 AM
We met a friend at SMOKE last night for dinner and I'm always amazed at how busy Cherry St. is even on a Monday night.
I had trouble getting a table at smoke on a tuesday
Quote from: Ibanez on September 22, 2015, 09:14:45 AM
I have heard recently that these people http://www.sandbburgers.com/ have been sniffing around the Tulsa area for a location. I don't know anything about them, was just told they were looking for "a few spots" in and around Tulsa to expand into. Perhaps the old Full Moon would be a good spot for them.
I went to the one in OKC recently. It's in the northern suburban area. It's recent construction but designed to feel industrial. I can see their style fitting in at the Full Moon location. The burgers were pretty good and had a broad selection. The menu very closely resembles Hop Bunz.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on September 22, 2015, 09:41:55 AM
S & B looks interesting - there is one close to my central OK traffic pattern....may have to try it out.
ah... I read the url as as Sand Burgers. Did not sound good
I love the S&B in OKC! I think it would do very well in Midtown or Downtown Tulsa.
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 22, 2015, 10:21:40 AM
I had trouble getting a table at smoke on a tuesday
Not surprising.
Quote from: BKDotCom on September 22, 2015, 11:12:20 AM
ah... I read the url as as Sand Burgers. Did not sound good
Better than shitburgers!
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 22, 2015, 09:11:32 AM
Looks like Full Moon isn't opening back up. They said initially that they were renovating, but I read this morning that they are auctioning off all their equipment. The pianos were fun and the outdoor patio was neat, but the food was bad and the beer selection was lean. "World famous" tortilla soup? More like Pace picante sauce and milk. It was terrible. The brunch was about all that was worth eating there. And the limited beer selection just wasn't keeping up with the times.
I learned recently that Cherry Street has some of the highest rent in Tulsa so I can't imagine it'll be vacant for too long. Hopefully something neat and innovative opens up. Would prefer something local but if its a chain hopefully it's something unique and urban and not a Jimmy Johns or something lame. The patio alone should have people interested.
Auctioning off the equipment is not necessarily incompatible with a renovation. (FWIW, their website still says it's "temporarily closed for construction")
Quote from: Oil Capital on September 22, 2015, 05:45:36 PM
Auctioning off the equipment is not necessarily incompatible with a renovation. (FWIW, their website still says it's "temporarily closed for construction")
Based on pics from the auction site, better to start over with the equipment.
Quote from: hello on September 22, 2015, 02:04:25 PM
I love the S&B in OKC! I think it would do very well in Midtown or Downtown Tulsa.
That settles it... I am gonna try to get there later today!
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 22, 2015, 09:11:32 AM
...
I learned recently that Cherry Street has some of the highest rent in Tulsa so I can't imagine it'll be vacant for too long. Hopefully something neat and innovative opens up. Would prefer something local but if its a chain hopefully it's something unique and urban and not a Jimmy Johns or something lame. The patio alone should have people interested.
Yes, new construction approaches $40/sq ft triple net in the Cherry Street corridor.
Full Moon is a corner lot. Is the lot large enough for a QT?
Is there anything keeping QT/Kum & Go from building there?
Quote from: Townsend on September 23, 2015, 12:38:52 PM
Full Moon is a corner lot. Is the lot large enough for a QT?
Is there anything keeping QT/Kum & Go from building there?
Lot size would be a problem. Also it doesn't have the traffic count a gas station wants. Finally, why pay a premium for foot traffic when that's not what you are designed for?
Quote from: cannon_fodder on September 23, 2015, 01:22:56 PM
Lot size would be a problem. Also it doesn't have the traffic count a gas station wants. Finally, why pay a premium for foot traffic when that's not what you are designed for?
I thought of it...my mind said "That would suck" and I posted.
What you said makes sense. I guess it could be a CVS or cell phone/mattress store.
Quote from: Townsend on September 23, 2015, 01:38:04 PM
I thought of it...my mind said "That would suck" and I posted.
What you said makes sense. I guess it could be a CVS or cell phone/mattress store.
California Nails & T-Mobile was what I was hoping for.
Anyone eat at D'Vina yet?
We walked in around 1:30 on a Sunday afternoon and there was a band setting up outside.
We wandered around the interior of the place for a minute or two looking for employees. The wife got weirded out and we decided to leave.
The band said "thanks for coming folks" and we walked down to Kilkennys.
So - Sax on Cherry Street?
(Old Zanmai)
There will be a meeting about 15th Street Rehabilitation between Peoria and Lewis (aka, Cherry Street) next Monday, November 21, 6:00 pm, at Christ the King Church. There also will be a discussion of multi-modal street plans and public transportation. Cherry Street could be a real jewel if done correctly. The sidewalks on Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) are wonky and disconnected based on how it developed over time. Now that it is without question a major attraction, it needs proper streetscaping with wide sidewalks, trees, and protected cross walks. A bike lane would be awesome too. We need a good showing of people to say that they walk and bike consistently in that area to convince them to get it right. Please consider attending.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/saxmanosu/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3508_zpsza4sqiz7.jpeg)
Quote from: DowntownDan on November 15, 2016, 10:29:03 AM
There will be a meeting about 15th Street Rehabilitation between Peoria and Lewis (aka, Cherry Street) next Monday, November 21, 6:00 pm, at Christ the King Church. There also will be a discussion of multi-modal street plans and public transportation. Cherry Street could be a real jewel if done correctly. The sidewalks on Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) are wonky and disconnected based on how it developed over time. Now that it is without question a major attraction, it needs proper streetscaping with wide sidewalks, trees, and protected cross walks. A bike lane would be awesome too. We need a good showing of people to say that they walk and bike consistently in that area to convince them to get it right. Please consider attending.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/saxmanosu/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3508_zpsza4sqiz7.jpeg)
Although Ill still be at work at that time, Id love to come and convince them to break the cycle of Bad Acorns.
In a
nutshell, Acorn streetlights are decorative street furniture that do a poor job of lighting streets (at least at the brightness we expect today).
If you are really in love with them, make them a decorative intensity (1000 Lumens-ish) and do the actual job of lighting streets with low-glare, shielded streetlights mounted higher up.
...and LED lighting doesnt have to be garish. Warm White LEDs are a better choice if you want to make an area look more inviting.
Quote from: patric on November 15, 2016, 10:40:55 AM
Although Ill still be at work at that time, Id love to come and convince them to break the cycle of Bad Acorns.
In a nutshell, Acorn streetlights are decorative street furniture that do a poor job of lighting streets (at least at the brightness we expect today).
If you are really in love with them, make them a decorative intensity (1000 Lumens-ish) and do the actual job of lighting streets with low-glare, shielded streetlights mounted higher up.
...and LED lighting doesnt have to be garish. Warm White LEDs are a better choice if you want to make an area look more inviting.
I would be happy to raise this issue on your behalf if you could write up a summary. I know you have been pressing this for a long time and I agree with you. I live off of Cherry Street and I want this to be done right.
That's great news that they are starting to plan for a better streetscape. I agree with you on new sidewalks, trees , crosswalks and lighting but not sure 15th needs a bike lane unless they removed the angled parking (not likely).
Quote from: DowntownDan on November 15, 2016, 10:29:03 AM
There will be a meeting about 15th Street Rehabilitation between Peoria and Lewis (aka, Cherry Street) next Monday, November 21, 6:00 pm, at Christ the King Church. There also will be a discussion of multi-modal street plans and public transportation. Cherry Street could be a real jewel if done correctly. The sidewalks on Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) are wonky and disconnected based on how it developed over time. Now that it is without question a major attraction, it needs proper streetscaping with wide sidewalks, trees, and protected cross walks. A bike lane would be awesome too. We need a good showing of people to say that they walk and bike consistently in that area to convince them to get it right. Please consider attending.
Thanks, I will consider attending the meeting.
But M.B. Cherry Street between Peoria and Utica is already very lively with pedestrian traffic. I doubt if the City's standard "streetscaping" designs (glaring acorn lights, rough sidewalks and crosswalks which aren't ADA-compliant, huge and hideous traffic signal control boxes) will improve the current situation. Brookside was
worsened by one of these "improvement" projects, and I dread to think what might be in the works for 15th Street.
Quote from: DowntownDan on November 15, 2016, 10:45:06 AM
I would be happy to raise this issue on your behalf if you could write up a summary. I know you have been pressing this for a long time and I agree with you. I live off of Cherry Street and I want this to be done right.
Id be pleased to do that. Will PM you later, but its apparent others here would like to discuss this as well.
Quote from: Bamboo World on November 15, 2016, 12:36:20 PM
Brookside was worsened by one of these "improvement" projects
Can you elaborate please?
I disagree about Brookside. While it could have been better it still was an improvement. They need to redo the crosswalks and have more traffic calming barriers though. The intersection at 36th needs work. And extend the streetscape south toward 41st.
Quote from: SXSW on November 15, 2016, 02:35:35 PM
They need to redo the crosswalks...
Which crosswalks in Brookside need to be redone? And how do they need to be redone? What's wrong with them as they are now?
Quote from: SXSW on November 15, 2016, 02:35:35 PM
...and have more traffic calming barriers...
What type of traffic calming barriers, and why? What's wrong with the traffic now?
Quote from: SXSW on November 15, 2016, 02:35:35 PM
The intersection at 36th needs work.
What is wrong with the existing intersection at 36th?
Bamboo - I think they should have extend the landscaped median in place from 35th to 33rd all the way to 36th. That way when you're in the crosswalk you can wait in the median and it helps to calm traffic. The pavers could also be redone or just paint the crosswalks a darker color. Also adding signs like this could help both on Peoria and also 15th:
(http://d35gqh05wwjv5k.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/i/n/in-street-pedestrian-crosswalk-signs-98308-002-lg.jpg)
Quote from: Tulsasaurus Rex on November 15, 2016, 01:55:18 PM
Can you elaborate please?
Poorly designed sidewalks, curb ramps, and crosswalks, such as those here at 41st Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1044266,-95.9756107,3a,90y,46.22h,55.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYA3iTTAwY79yoTQR5MVEXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
How is a blind pedestrian supposed to know where the crosswalks are?
Why is the street drainage designed so water collects at the crosswalks?
Why is there a pole in the middle of a curb ramp?
Why are there push buttons for pedestrians mounted above the curb ramp instead of a more level surface?
Why are there push buttons for pedestrians at all? (Why should pedestrians be required to request to cross a street?)
Why are rough pavers used on both the curb ramps and in the crosswalks? (How do rough walking surfaces facilitate the safe passage of pedestrians? Wheelchairs? People using canes or walkers or pushing strollers? Blind or visually impaired pedestrians? Motor vehicles?)
----
Poorly designed sidewalks, curb ramps, crosswalks, curbs, planting areas, and plantings such as those at 33rd Place (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1147451,-95.9757762,3a,75y,343.64h,75.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZJWUxEU2xOK6o_09qsJLPA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
Why are small broadleaf evergreens planted instead of deciduous shade trees along the sidewalk?
What's the purpose of the center median?
What's the purpose of the poorly maintained planting area below the tree?
What's the purpose of the pavement marking paint on the curb ramps?
------------
M.B. Cherry Street has already gotten some "streetscaping" work, fairly recently. Here's an example at St. Louis Ave:
July 2011 view (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1406279,-95.9710633,3a,75y,25.09h,77.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN92Z2IPS3RpHbFarXvxZOA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Note how the curb ramps are paired, so someone who couldn't handle a curb would be able to directly cross either north-south or east-west. Note also how the curb ramp concrete at the corner appears newer than the sidewalk concrete. I imagine it is newer, probably because the curb ramps replaced sidewalks with full height curbs all around the street corners.
Note also that the paired curb ramps have hot pink marking paint on them, indicating that the existing curb ramps are to be replaced with new "Type A" ramps.
By February 2014 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1406155,-95.9710613,3a,75y,25.09h,77.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqVVgHgQD7UZu4h9xUifT-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), the curb ramps shown in the July 2011 photo had been replaced.
The problem, as I see it, is that the new curb ramps are worse than what they replaced. A single curb ramp, pointed toward the middle of an intersection, is not very useful for a blind pedestrian or anyone confined to a wheelchair. The new curb ramps should have been paired as the old curb ramps were, directing pedestrian into a crosswalk, not into the middle of the intersection -- something like the City of Tulsa's own Standard 790 (http://www.cityoftulsa.org/COTlegacy/documents/NewScans/790.pdf) for curb ramps.
Notice also that sometime between July 2011 and February 2014, a portion of the sidewalk along St. Louis had been removed and replaced with a strip of grass and some street trees. I don't have a problem with the trees, or with the tables and chairs on the sidewalk, either. But evidently, someone with the City of Tulsa does have an issue with sidewalk cafés on public sidewalks (http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/moratorium-no-more-downtown-sidewalk-cafes-until-completion-of-walkability/article_9448ed3f-6fa0-58b0-9088-4f39d4b04076.html).
Those curb ramps can't be more than 5 and a half years old. Do they need replacing already? If so, why were they installed at all? Some of the curb ramps in my neighborhood have been replaced several times in recent years, usually with designs which are inferior to what was replaced, and sometimes not compliant with the ADA. Why?
M.B. Cherry could be made more accessible to pedestrians with disabilities, but the City has actually made the situation worse in some instances. The best way to make 15th more pedestrian friendly is to slow the vehicular traffic down and to protect people on the sidewalks. The Downtown Coordinating Council has hired a walkability expert to study the downtown area, but the principles are the same on 15th, 11th, Peoria, etc.
- Keep traffic lanes narrow (10 feet)
- Allow on-street parking along the curbs
- Plant shade trees along the sidewalk, close to the curb lines
Many walkability improvements can be accomplished with paint, which is relatively inexpensive compared to moving curbs, relocating utilities, installing pavers, or changing grades/drainage structures.
Quote from: SXSW on November 15, 2016, 07:13:59 PM
Bamboo - I think they should have extend the landscaped median in place from 35th to 33rd all the way to 36th. That way when you're in the crosswalk you can wait in the median and it helps to calm traffic. The pavers could also be redone or just paint the crosswalks a darker color. Also adding signs like this could help both on Peoria and also 15th:
(http://d35gqh05wwjv5k.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/i/n/in-street-pedestrian-crosswalk-signs-98308-002-lg.jpg)
I understand the median, to a point. A better protection for pedestrians is curbside parking, however.
What's wrong with the existing crosswalk pavers? Why do they need to be redone (again)?
Crosswalks, when painted, should be a contrasting, highly visible color. Reflective white would be the best on relatively darker asphalt.
Those pedestrian crossing signs are really helpful. In Cambridge/Boston they have crosswalks with those signs on a FOUR LANE STATE HIGHWAY every 30 yards or so, including a bunch that aren't even at a stoplight. You can be on one side of the street, decide you want to cross (not at an intersection), and off you go stopping traffic going both ways. It's awesome. They even have bike lanes on MA-2A and lo! nobody dies, traffic goes slow, and pedestrians are milling around everywhere off a friggin' highway.
Crazy, right? We can't even slow down Peoria. They have purposefully de-emphasized car-centric design on MA-2A and when you're driving you know you're second place to pedestrians and bikers.
Even Brookside isn't that great in the scheme of pedestrian friendly places. Cars are travelling way too fast and and there are too few crossing points. In fact, the lack of crossing points is a problem across Tulsa. As a pedestrian it is extremely dangerous trying to cross Peoria/Lewis/Harvard/Yale/etc and it only gets worse the further south you go.
Quote from: johrasephoenix on November 15, 2016, 09:04:12 PM
Those pedestrian crossing signs are really helpful. In Cambridge/Boston they have crosswalks with those signs on a FOUR LANE STATE HIGHWAY every 30 yards or so, including a bunch that aren't even at a stoplight. You can be on one side of the street, decide you want to cross (not at an intersection), and off you go stopping traffic going both ways. It's awesome...
...and handy for making a delivery of gluten-free sorghum malt beer:
1. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3910129,-71.1222827,3a,15y,277.09h,87.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNJruZIjNO5ZDfbpYPeeB7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3910129,-71.1222827,3a,15y,277.09h,87.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNJruZIjNO5ZDfbpYPeeB7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
2. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3910611,-71.1223851,3a,15y,271.51h,86.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skCRJeUJuWXVfcqGiUtk33g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3910611,-71.1223851,3a,15y,271.51h,86.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skCRJeUJuWXVfcqGiUtk33g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
3. Heading for the low spot in the center median: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3911272,-71.1225203,3a,75y,259.78h,87.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBA8G79fJbFOqYeChvX_V0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3911272,-71.1225203,3a,75y,259.78h,87.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBA8G79fJbFOqYeChvX_V0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
4. Nearly to the narrow sliver of refuge in the middle of the street: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3911869,-71.1226408,3a,90y,226.42h,89.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4z78n0vk8TYMPHBjW4Vd2Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3911869,-71.1226408,3a,90y,226.42h,89.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4z78n0vk8TYMPHBjW4Vd2Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
5. A small hurdle to overcome (but we can almost taste victory at this point): https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3912425,-71.1227634,3a,39.6y,178.76h,86.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sESTdTOLDiASAwo6ivY1KtA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3912425,-71.1227634,3a,39.6y,178.76h,86.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sESTdTOLDiASAwo6ivY1KtA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
6. A display of true stamina by crossing an 18-foot-wide lane
ON A DIAGONAL ! Eat your heart out, Hillary. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3912556,-71.1227902,3a,89.2y,152.29h,88.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPcmCYHTl0-QEVj00Ek9D4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3912556,-71.1227902,3a,89.2y,152.29h,88.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPcmCYHTl0-QEVj00Ek9D4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Quote from: johrasephoenix on November 15, 2016, 09:04:12 PM
Those pedestrian crossing signs are really helpful.
I agree. There are a number of pedestrian crossing signs along 15th between Peoria and Utica already:
For eastbound traffic:
1. between Peoria and Quaker
2. at Quaker
3. at Quincy
4. at Rockford
5. at St. Louis
6. at Trenton
7. at Troost
For westbound traffic:
8. at Troost
9. at Trenton
10. at St. Louis
11. at Rockford
12. at Quincy
13. at Quaker
Do you think there need to be more signs? Different signs (mentioning state law requiring yielding to pedestrians)?
I try to be very cautious when driving along 15th, because pedestrians seem to dart out from behind parked cars in many locations, not only marked crosswalks. Additional crosswalks with signs might be a good idea at several mid-block locations, especially at the hump between Trenton and Troost.
Quote from: johrasephoenix on November 15, 2016, 09:04:12 PM
...We can't even slow down Peoria...
I disagree. The vehicular traffic on many streets could be slowed down. Lanes could be narrowed and/or eliminated. Parking at the curb could be allowed. Protected bike lanes could be added. More signs such as the one SXSW posted could be moved to various locations as needed (as they appear to be relatively inexpensive and portable).
And many of these changes could be done with paint.
Quote from: DowntownDan on November 15, 2016, 10:29:03 AM
...Cherry Street could be a real jewel if done correctly. The sidewalks on Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) are wonky and disconnected based on how it developed over time. Now that it is without question a major attraction, it needs proper streetscaping with wide sidewalks, trees, and protected cross walks...
I think it depends on what "proper streetscaping" means. In my opinion, shade trees along the sidewalks would be wonderful. Acorn lights and rough pavements on sidewalks/crosswalks would be a waste of money. The sidewalks are little bit disconnected and wonky, but not terribly so. I walk and drive along 15th often, but I don't bike there much anymore. To me, the street seems fairly successful as it is.
The City has missed opportunities to provide good curb ramps and has failed to follow best practices and City of Tulsa standards. A recent example is the curb ramp on the Noodles & Company corner at Trenton. The new curb ramp there, less than six months old, has detectable warning pavement, but it's not aligned with the crosswalk. It would have been easy for the City to build it correctly, but it was done wrong, as is the case over and over and over again in various neighborhoods in Tulsa.
In general, the straighter and wider and more numerous the vehicular traffic lanes, the less safe it is for pedestrians. The larger the curb radii at corners, the less safe it is for pedestrians.
What are "protected" crosswalks?
Quote from: Bamboo World on November 15, 2016, 08:24:13 PM
Notice also that sometime between July 2011 and February 2014, a portion of the sidewalk along St. Louis had been removed and replaced with a strip of grass and some street trees. I don't have a problem with the trees, or with the tables and chairs on the sidewalk, either. But evidently, someone with the City of Tulsa does have an issue with sidewalk cafés on public sidewalks (http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/moratorium-no-more-downtown-sidewalk-cafes-until-completion-of-walkability/article_9448ed3f-6fa0-58b0-9088-4f39d4b04076.html).
Wow, you're right. The sidewalk tables and chairs at the La Madeleine disappear between February 2014 and January 2016. That sucks. My family and I had eaten at those tables and it was enjoyable. How can someone have a problem with sidewalk cafes?
Speaking of negative changes just at that intersection of Cherry and St. Louis, why were the bike racks in front of Full Moon Cafe removed between April 2014 and January of 2016? That seems like big step backwards. Was it because someone thought that was a lane and ran over them?
Quote from: Bamboo World on November 15, 2016, 08:36:50 PM
I understand the median, to a point. A better protection for pedestrians is curbside parking, however.
Crosswalks, when painted, should be a contrasting, highly visible color. Reflective white would be the best on relatively darker asphalt.
Throw in some RPMs (Raised Pavement Markers) and you're set. Since this is Oklahoma, they need to be installed differently than Florida, in that they should be grouted deeper into the pavement to escape snow plows.
(http://www.hyviz.com/2007artwork/warning_stripdaysm.jpg)
RPMs are more durable passive reflective markings than retro-reflective paint, but are usually used in conjunction with paint.
The biggest advantage is they remain visible in rain, where painted markings often disappear.
St. Louis even has some with internal LEDs along Washington Street.
(https://media.xogrp.com/images/5ffcd2ff-7492-4474-8952-8605b18d03be)
I went thru there a few weeks ago and saw their new warm 3000K LED Streetlights (that we could have instead of the depressing cold blue, if we pressed the distributor a bit). EDIT: Not the ones pictured above. The ones I saw are cobra-head style.
Quote from: patric on November 17, 2016, 10:52:44 AM
Throw in some RPMs (Raised Pavement Markers) and you're set. Since this is Oklahoma, they need to be installed differently than Florida, in that they should be grouted deeper into the pavement to escape snow plows.
(http://www.hyviz.com/2007artwork/warning_stripdaysm.jpg)
RMPs are more durable passive reflective markings than retro-reflective paint, but are usually used in conjunction with paint.
The biggest advantage is they remain visible in rain, where painted markings often disappear.
St. Louis even has some with internal LEDs along Washington Street.
(https://media.xogrp.com/images/5ffcd2ff-7492-4474-8952-8605b18d03be)
I went thru there a few weeks ago and saw their new warm 3000K LED Streetlights (that we could have instead of the depressing cold blue, if we pressed the distributor a bit).
I bet they are slicker than Vaseline on a doorknob for a cyclist when wet though.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 17, 2016, 01:41:02 PM
I bet they are slicker than Vaseline on a doorknob for a cyclist when wet though.
Ive honestly never heard anyone raise the question before.
(http://www.colebrothers.com/markers/stickdown6.jpg)
Quote from: patric on November 17, 2016, 03:53:23 PM
Ive honestly never heard anyone raise the question before.
(http://www.colebrothers.com/markers/stickdown6.jpg)
Guessing they meant the LEDs embedded in the ground. I can't remember what the LEDs that are embedded around the CotU are like, but it seems like one of those things the designers could overlook, not having any textures.
Speaking of midtown:
As of yesterday there are no orange barrels on Harvard.
Give thanks.
Quote from: BKDotCom on November 22, 2016, 09:06:36 AM
Speaking of midtown:
As of yesterday there are no orange barrels on Harvard.
Give thanks.
It's not midtown but, 61st & Memorial has all lanes open too.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 22, 2016, 09:46:13 AM
It's not midtown but, 61st & Memorial has all lanes open too.
Just in time for those holiday shopping runs to the mall! (Is there a sarcasm emoji?)
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 22, 2016, 09:46:13 AM
It's not midtown but, 61st & Memorial has all lanes open too.
Hrm, I might be able to give aldi a try now :)
Quote from: rebound on November 22, 2016, 09:59:58 AM
Just in time for those holiday shopping runs to the mall! (Is there a sarcasm emoji?)
Nevermind
Quote from: rebound on November 22, 2016, 09:59:58 AM
Just in time for those holiday shopping runs to the mall! (Is there a sarcasm emoji?)
I'm sure that was the goal. I avoid 71st east of Memorial as much as possible this time of year. I still go to High Gravity as required.
Quote from: saintnicster on November 22, 2016, 10:31:38 AM
Hrm, I might be able to give aldi a try now :)
Nevermind
Aldi's in Bixby is south of the turnpike. Take 169. Or try US 75 and 81st (South of Tulsa Hills) or in BA. Take a quarter for the shopping cart. You get it back when you return the cart. They also do not bag things so have a container in your vehicle or take a bag or box into the store. They have some good deals. Some of their produce pre-packaged sizes are too much for me though.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 22, 2016, 11:02:43 AM
Aldi's in Bixby is south of the turnpike. Take 169. Or try US 75 and 81st (South of Tulsa Hills) or in BA. Take a quarter for the shopping cart. You get it back when you return the cart. They also do not bag things so have a container in your vehicle or take a bag or box into the store. They have some good deals. Some of their produce pre-packaged sizes are too much for me though.
Funny Aldi story:
My younger daughter has started shopping at the Aldi in the Walk at Tulsa Hills and was going on and on about it over lunch the other day. I decided I'd give it a try for a few staple items and a large turkey. She had mentioned the .25 cart deposit and I smooth forgot about it so basically I was walking around with a 22# turkey like a bowling ball bag until the stocker noticed and gave me a box to get the rest of my items into it.
Quote
Quote from: BKDotCom on Today at 09:06:36 am
Speaking of midtown:
As of yesterday there are no orange barrels on Harvard.
Give thanks.
I got my driver's license in 1981. 31st & Harvard has been one of the roughest intersections in Tulsa since well before I could drive. This re-make was at least 45 or so years overdue. I can't wait until 41st & Harvard is done, both northbound lanes will knock a molar loose.
Plastic, manhole covers, and even some paint is slick on a bike. Particularly if it is wet. Obviously, if you are going straight it isn't a big concern, but in corners or if a road is turned into a track for some event - it can be a serious issue. Even on the Tour de France you see guys go down when there are think lane lines or other things on the road in corners. One of the leaders at the Olympics did the same thing this year.
But center lane markers on a normal road shouldn't be a big issue for cyclists.
Another Brookside restaurant closing: Sonoma Wine Bar. I enjoyed Sonoma and will miss it.
Anyone know what will take its place? There's also the big Hopbunz space and the Ming's space in the Consortium that are also empty. What's with the unusually high amount of restaurant turnover lately in Brookside?
Quote from: SXSW on December 12, 2016, 09:37:59 PM
Another Brookside restaurant closing: Sonoma Wine Bar. I enjoyed Sonoma and will miss it.
Anyone know what will take its place? There's also the big Hopbunz space and the Ming's space in the Consortium that are also empty. What's with the unusually high amount of restaurant turnover lately in Brookside?
They started sucking....
Sorry, forgot to update about the street design meeting. Its still two years at least from beginning, he said they have to tear up and rebuild Lewis from 3rd to 21st before 15th gets started, but they have really good ideas and plenty of time for input. It looks like they want to install dedicated bike lanes from Denver to Peoria and from Utica to Yale. Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) would be designated as shared lanes for vehicles and bikes. I don't like that they will still have parking on both sides on Cherry Street proper, back in angle on one side parallel on the other. I wish they'd ditch the parallel parking and widen the sidewalks. I also wish they could bury the power line while the place is torn up, but thats a different department. No details on lighting, I'm guessing that's a later planning stage.
Anyway, the presentation is at the link.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Dqzlhdnu6jV3hJMDJDLU56ZWc
I still want to know what happened to the bike racks here between 2014 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.140592,-95.9707881,3a,75y,346.7h,90.31t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWCeWapfrDTuVcID-m9lReg!2e0!5s20140401T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1) and 2016 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.140613,-95.9708185,3a,75y,16.29h,82.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s8HHRRt3NGJ-cu0k_pk7SmQ!2e0!5s20160101T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1). Did an Owasso cheerleader get 'em?
Quote from: Tulsasaurus Rex on December 13, 2016, 09:13:41 AM
I still want to know what happened to the bike racks here between 2014 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.140592,-95.9707881,3a,75y,346.7h,90.31t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWCeWapfrDTuVcID-m9lReg!2e0!5s20140401T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1) and 2016 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.140613,-95.9708185,3a,75y,16.29h,82.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s8HHRRt3NGJ-cu0k_pk7SmQ!2e0!5s20160101T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1). Did an Owasso cheerleader get 'em?
There's a tree and a business missing too.
Quote from: DowntownDan on December 13, 2016, 08:06:56 AM
Sorry, forgot to update about the street design meeting. Its still two years at least from beginning, he said they have to tear up and rebuild Lewis from 3rd to 21st before 15th gets started, but they have really good ideas and plenty of time for input. It looks like they want to install dedicated bike lanes from Denver to Peoria and from Utica to Yale. Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) would be designated as shared lanes for vehicles and bikes. I don't like that they will still have parking on both sides on Cherry Street proper, back in angle on one side parallel on the other. I wish they'd ditch the parallel parking and widen the sidewalks. I also wish they could bury the power line while the place is torn up, but thats a different department. No details on lighting, I'm guessing that's a later planning stage.
Anyway, the presentation is at the link.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Dqzlhdnu6jV3hJMDJDLU56ZWc
I just posted a rant on the "Bike Lanes For 3rd St." post regarding how dangerous Cherry St. is in it's current configuration for cyclists.
Quote from: Conan71 on December 13, 2016, 09:50:28 AM
I just posted a rant on the "Bike Lanes For 3rd St." post regarding how dangerous Cherry St. is in its current configuration for cyclists.
I agree that it's dangerous in its current configuration. The designers' primary ideas are to change the angled parking along the north curb from head-in to back-in and to build new curbs to narrow down the moving traffic lanes (which would be shared lanes marked with bike sharrows).
Do you think these ideas are a waste of money? What are your suggestions for making the street safer for cyclists? For pedestrians?
At the public meeting, there was only one person who really spoke up in opposition to the back-in angled parking proposal. Most seemed to think back-in parking would be safer for cyclists than head-in.
Quote from: DowntownDan on December 13, 2016, 08:06:56 AM
Sorry, forgot to update about the street design meeting...
...the presentation is at the link.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Dqzlhdnu6jV3hJMDJDLU56ZWc
Thanks for posting the link!
The example street plan design shown on pages 63-66 is between St Louis and Trenton. Roosevelt's is near the center at the top of the plan. SMOKE's parking lot is near the center at the bottom.
Quote from: Bamboo World on December 13, 2016, 06:05:38 PM
I agree that it's dangerous in its current configuration. The designers' primary ideas are to change the angled parking along the north curb from head-in to back-in and to build new curbs to narrow down the moving traffic lanes (which would be shared lanes marked with bike sharrows).
Do you think these ideas are a waste of money? What are your suggestions for making the street safer for cyclists? For pedestrians?
At the public meeting, there was only one person who really spoke up in opposition to the back-in angled parking proposal. Most seemed to think back-in parking would be safer for cyclists than head-in.
I answered under the other topic, but yes, angled in back-in parking would be much safer!
Quote from: Conan71 on December 13, 2016, 08:05:29 PM
I answered under the other topic, but yes, angled in back-in parking would be much safer!
On the other topic, I was wanting SXSW's opinion about the proposed design of the street (but I saw your response to my reply to SXSW, and I agree with you, Conan).
Here, Conan71, I was asking if you think building new curbs and painting sharrows is a waste of money.
Also, what are your suggestions (other than back-in angled parking) for making the Peoria-to-Utica stretch of 15th safer for cyclists? For pedestrians?
Perhaps the money spent to relocate curbs and to paint sharrows would be better spent on education and law enforcement to crack down on speeders and inattentive drivers...
Seems like an appropriate thread. I just got an email that Genghis Grill is closing their Cherry Street store, directing people to the Bixby one
https://genghisgrill.myguestaccount.com/static/m131/cet10195/view.htm
Quote from: saintnicster on December 19, 2016, 12:54:26 PM
Seems like an appropriate thread. I just got an email that Genghis Grill is closing their Cherry Street store, directing people to the Bixby one
https://genghisgrill.myguestaccount.com/static/m131/cet10195/view.htm
Good!
Quote from: saintnicster on December 19, 2016, 12:54:26 PM
Seems like an appropriate thread. I just got an email that Genghis Grill is closing their Cherry Street store, directing people to the Bixby one
https://genghisgrill.myguestaccount.com/static/m131/cet10195/view.htm
Gotta really be craving some Genghis to drive 20 minutes to the burbs
I wonder if the recent robbery (http://www.newson6.com/story/34005195/tulsa-restaurant-workers-robbed-at-gunpoint) had anything to do with it
I kind of like Genghis Grill, but always felt it was out of place on Cherry Street.
Quote from: rebound on December 19, 2016, 02:04:10 PM
I kind of like Genghis Grill, but always felt it was out of place on Cherry Street.
Pretty Meh. I was "one and done" with it.
Quote from: Conan71 on December 19, 2016, 02:27:51 PM
Pretty Meh. I was "one and done" with it.
We only went once. The same with the chain "French" and the "upscale Mexican" places down the street. I think they both are from Dallas and both are pretty Meh.
Quote from: swake on December 19, 2016, 02:38:25 PM
We only went once. The same with the chain "French" and the "upscale Mexican" places down the street. I think they both are from Dallas and both are pretty Meh.
Mi Cocina is good, but overpriced. (IMHO)
Cherry Street does have a lot of chains, which kind of takes away from the general awesome vibe. It looks great walking down the sidewalk but the Subway/Genghis Grill etc kills the buzz.
Somehow downtown has avoided that pitfall. Hopefully they can keep it up.
Quote from: rebound on December 19, 2016, 02:53:36 PM
Mi Cocina is good, but overpriced. (IMHO)
Meh is probably not fair, it was fine. But twice the price of places that are a lot better than "fine".
Quote from: johrasephoenix on December 19, 2016, 02:58:49 PM
Cherry Street does have a lot of chains, which kind of takes away from the general awesome vibe. It looks great walking down the sidewalk but the Subway/Genghis Grill etc kills the buzz.
Somehow downtown has avoided that pitfall. Hopefully they can keep it up.
There were 3 Subway sandwich restaurants inside the IDL, last I checked. 4 if you stretch to OSU-Tulsa
Quote from: johrasephoenix on December 19, 2016, 02:58:49 PM
Cherry Street does have a lot of chains, which kind of takes away from the general awesome vibe. It looks great walking down the sidewalk but the Subway/Genghis Grill etc kills the buzz.
Somehow downtown has avoided that pitfall. Hopefully they can keep it up.
??
Downtown has chains....do you mean they just haven't overwhelmed the area visually, spiritually, etc??
Quote from: saintnicster on December 19, 2016, 06:57:52 PM
There were 3 Subway sandwich restaurants inside the IDL, last I checked. 4 if you stretch to OSU-Tulsa
Chain
restaurants in IDL:
2 subways (not 3) 3 subways (forgot the new one by the ballpark)
1 Jimmy Johns
1 Einstein Bros
1 Arbys
1 Dominos
1 Mazzios
1 Napels Flatbread
1 Daily Grill (in Hyatt) (if this counts)
1 Coney Island (if this counts)
1 Spaghetti Warehouse
1 Starbucks (inside the Library)
1 All About Cafe (http://allaboutcha.net/locations/)
1 Rib Crib
1 Oklahoma Joes
1 McNellie's (There are now 4 McNellieses, it's in chain territory)
Almost a chain: Yokozuna (there are now 3)
Not Chains: Albert Gs, Mexicali, & Ti Amo (each have 1 other location)
Quote from: BKDotCom on December 20, 2016, 09:00:28 AM
Chains in IDL:
2 subways (not 3)
1 Jimmy Johns
1 Einstein Bros
1 Arbys
1 Dominos
1 Mazzios
1 Daily Grill (in Hyatt) (if this counts)
4th and Main (across from Billy's on the Square), 6th and Boulder (near the Holiday Inn), and GreenArch were what I was thinking. GreenArch doesn't show up on GMaps, but is still listed on Subway's corporate site. I don't get downtown as often as I'd like these days to double-check this.
After I posted, I remembered about Dominos and Arbys. The point was more that Downtown isn't immune to chains yet, but that they do exist in the background. With Cherry Street being condensed, the chains are a bit more obvious.
Quote from: saintnicster on December 20, 2016, 09:12:24 AM
4th and Main (across from Billy's on the Square), 6th and Boulder (near the Holiday Inn), and GreenArch were what I was thinking. GreenArch doesn't show up on GMaps, but is still listed on Subway's corporate site. I don't get downtown as often as I'd like these days to double-check this.
I quickly realized my mistake and updated my list.. There used to be a "3rd" between city hall & the library.. it's been gone for several years leaving downtown with 2.. until the ballpark location opened.
And that's ignoring the banks, sports places, hardware stores, and other locations that are actually all chains too...
Hurts Donut, too, right?
http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/food/hurts-donut-company-to-open-in-blue-dome-district-this/article_82c4e8f5-7ba0-5f43-ab82-1c53e56910aa.html
Quote from: BKDotCom on December 20, 2016, 09:00:28 AM
Chain restaurants in IDL:
Not sure if All About Cha is considered to be a
restaurant, but many food items are served there...
Starbucks* had a location on the second floor of the Atlas Life Building. I don't know if it's still there.
* If Starbucks is a
restaurant, then All About Cha probably is a
restaurant, also.
Quote from: Bamboo World on December 20, 2016, 07:38:55 PM
Not sure if All About Cha is considered to be a restaurant...
Starbucks* had a location on the second floor of the Atlas Life Building. I don't know if it's still there.
Added All About Cafe? to the list (I miss working downtown / keepin up with the changes)
Not an actual Starbucks... "starbucks served here"
Quote from: BKDotCom on December 20, 2016, 10:06:12 PM
Added All About Cafe? to the list (I miss working downtown / keepin up with the changes)
Not an actual Starbucks... "starbucks served here"
Yeah, I think Starbucks first real location downtown is the one at the Library.
Quote from: BKDotCom on December 20, 2016, 09:00:28 AM
1 All About Cafe (http://allaboutcha.net/locations/)
I'm afraid they are above my price point.
Quote from: swake on December 20, 2016, 11:46:03 PM
Yeah, I think Starbucks first real location downtown is the one at the Library.
It's typical in all respects except I heard that the library trust is the franchisee and the profits go towards the library. It's a pretty cool deal I think.
Quote from: BKDotCom on December 20, 2016, 10:06:12 PM
Added All About Cafe? to the list (I miss working downtown / keepin up with the changes)
Not an actual Starbucks... "starbucks served here"
I work downtown (a block from All About Cha) and live near enough to walk to work and anywhere else downtown. Even so, it's difficult for me to keep up with the many changes downtown or in Midtown/Cherry Street.
Quote from: swake on December 20, 2016, 11:46:03 PM
Yeah, I think Starbucks first real location downtown is the one at the Library.
The library might be the second real Starbucks location. I remember an earlier Starbucks downtown. It was a few years ago, in the space where Topeca at the Hyatt is now. As I recall, Starbucks moved out in the spring of 2010, and Topeca opened at the same location in early 2011.
The Pint is closing and will reopen as Main Street Tavern (which has locations in BA & Claremore)
QuoteTable Talk: The Pint on Cherry Street closes, acquired by BA restaurant owner
The Pint on Cherry Street, 1325 E. 15th St., has been acquired by the owner of Main Street Tavern in Broken Arrow, according to a post on The Pint's Facebook page.
The Pint closed Wednesday and posted this message on Facebook:
"Thank you for your patronage over the last 3 years. The Pint on Cherry Street has been acquired by Main Street Tavern which will be opening in a few weeks at our location. Thank you for watching the games with us."
Main Street Tavern owner Jason Scarpa, who also owns The Rooftop in Broken Arrow and a Main Street Tavern location in Claremore, was not immediately available for comment.
A Pint employee said she understood the site will become another Main Street Tavern location in possibly six to eight weeks.
The Pint opened in 2014, replacing White Owl in that location.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-the-pint-on-cherry-street-closes-acquired-by/article_64c9b4a2-a723-505d-b8e1-074874ed5e9d.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-the-pint-on-cherry-street-closes-acquired-by/article_64c9b4a2-a723-505d-b8e1-074874ed5e9d.html)
This article about Cherry Street is interesting including how it reclaimed the name and was rejuvenated starting in the early 80s:
Throwback Tulsa: Cherry Street's success was a long time coming
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-cherry-street-s-success-was-a-long-time/article_c2a01d08-4070-55e6-906c-f2220d5a813f.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-cherry-street-s-success-was-a-long-time/article_c2a01d08-4070-55e6-906c-f2220d5a813f.html)
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 15, 2017, 04:10:18 PM
The Pint is closing and will reopen as Main Street Tavern (which has locations in BA & Claremore)
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-the-pint-on-cherry-street-closes-acquired-by/article_64c9b4a2-a723-505d-b8e1-074874ed5e9d.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-the-pint-on-cherry-street-closes-acquired-by/article_64c9b4a2-a723-505d-b8e1-074874ed5e9d.html)
Main Street Tavern on Cherry Street sounds confusing. This space seems to operate with 2-year expiration date.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 15, 2017, 04:24:20 PM
This article about Cherry Street is interesting including how it reclaimed the name and was rejuvenated starting in the early 80s:
Throwback Tulsa: Cherry Street's success was a long time coming
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-cherry-street-s-success-was-a-long-time/article_c2a01d08-4070-55e6-906c-f2220d5a813f.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-cherry-street-s-success-was-a-long-time/article_c2a01d08-4070-55e6-906c-f2220d5a813f.html)
Really, Cherry Street was ahead of it's time, especially for Tulsa, with small business owners getting together and "owning" an area which was seedy and becoming dilapidated. It was already pretty nice by the 90's and just keeps getting better.
The 30+ years it took Cherry Street to get where it is makes the Brady District and Blue Dome seem that much more impressive. However, it also puts a bit of perspective on what we can realistically expect in the Pearl and Whittier Districts going forward, especially the neighborhoods which have a lot further to go than the "Main Streets".
A lot of shop owners and entrepreneurs bought in, worked hard to improve the area, and then had to close down anyways as they were pushed out by rising rents they helped to bring about! One way to battle that is with subsidized rents like the Brady District is providing thanks to GKFF and others. That isn't realistic for everywhere though so it will be interesting to see how Whittier, Pearl and Blue Dome do going forward. I hope small local businesses will remain core parts of those areas. Cherry Street and Brookside have already "gentrified" with high rents and high priced housing around them.
Quote from: DTowner on June 15, 2017, 04:26:46 PM
Main Street Tavern on Cherry Street sounds confusing. This space seems to operate with 2-year expiration date.
Yes, I thought about that too. Doesn't sound good. I guess they couldn't find anything actually on Main and opening anywhere near the existing "Tavern" on Main Street in the Brady would be exceptionally confusing.
The Pint made it 3 years! ;D
I believe White Owl was open for 5+ years.
Maybe this one will last 8! Or less than a year, if in decreasing order.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 15, 2017, 04:32:02 PM
Yes, I thought about that too. Doesn't sound good. I guess they couldn't find anything actually on Main and opening anywhere near the existing "Tavern" on Main Street in the Brady would be exceptionally confusing.
The Pint made it 3 years! ;D
I believe White Owl was open for 5+ years.
Maybe this one will last 8! Or less than a year, if in decreasing order.
The Pint was really meh. We gave it several shots and nothing about it ever resonated with us. The food was almost okay to okay and craft beer is not a unique offering for bars or pubs these days. I've tried to think what about The Pint or the White Owl is so different from Kilkenny's in trying to figure out why Kilkenny's has seemed to work for so long. Is it the more cozy public house atmosphere of Kilkenny's which makes it more inviting? The White Owl/Pint space has always seemed like a cavernous noise machine to me.
Main Street Tavern is nothing special either. Ubiquitous bar eats and a decent drink and beer menu, but nothing really memorable.
Of course, we are speaking as if The Pint failed. For all we know, this Main Street Tavern guy simply liked the location and made the owners of The Pint an offer they couldn't refuse.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 15, 2017, 07:09:12 PM
The Pint was really meh. We gave it several shots and nothing about it ever resinated with us. The food was almost okay to okay and craft beer is not a unique offering for bars or pubs these days. I've tried to think what about The Pint or the White Owl is so different from Kilkenny's in trying to figure out why Kilkenny's has seemed to work for so long. Is it the more cozy public house atmosphere of Kilkenny's which makes it more inviting? The White Owl/Pint space has always seemed like a cavernous noise machine to me.
Main Street Tavern is nothing special either. Ubiquitous bar eats and a decent drink and beer menu, but nothing really memorable.
Of course, we are speaking as if The Pint failed. For all we know, this Main Street Tavern guy simply liked the location and made the owners of The Pint an offer they couldn't refuse.
The first time I went to the pint they had awesome huge wings (regular drumsticks covered in wing sauce) but then they stopped doing that. I wish more places would have regular sized drumstick wings. They were really good and a lot less of a mess. Later visits weren't as good. I remember ordering pretzels which claimed to be served with Seikel's Mustard. They came out with plain heinz. I was frustrated and they laughed it off saying, oh no we've never served them with any other mustard! Well, the menu says that and it looked pretty new. Also, the difference between pretzels with Seikels vs pretzels with heinz is pretty drastic. Furthermore, the pretzels were awful and rest of the meal was ok.
Kilkenny's has tons of food option. Probably "too many options" according to some, but it works. Almost everything I've gotten there has been good and I have several "favorites". Plus the pub menu is so cheap. They have a nice small curated selection of beers. The atmosphere is top notch. The old wood and seats and lighting plus all the nooks and crannys all work together to make it feel like a real cozy Irish pub. They've created a real "experience" you can't get anywhere else in Oklahoma.
I liked what the White Owl did with the spot. It was a great place to watch games and play pool. The Pint removed the pool table. It is loud in there though but so is Kilkennys. I liked what I got when I went to Main Street Tavern. It is neat they're focusing on their downtown a little bit in BA. It might do better than the Pint or White Owl because it is a bit more distinguished and they did have a couple specialties that stood out.
However, as you say, the Pint might've been doing well. Most every time I went in, it was crowded.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 16, 2017, 08:23:41 AM
The first time I went to the pint they had awesome huge wings (regular drumsticks covered in wing sauce) but then they stopped doing that. I wish more places would have regular sized drumstick wings. They were really good and a lot less of a mess. Later visits weren't as good. I remember ordering pretzels which claimed to be served with Seikel's Mustard. They came out with plain heinz. I was frustrated and they laughed it off saying, oh no we've never served them with any other mustard! Well, the menu says that and it looked pretty new. Also, the difference between pretzels with Seikels vs pretzels with heinz is pretty drastic. Furthermore, the pretzels were awful and rest of the meal was ok.
Kilkenny's has tons of food option. Probably "too many options" according to some, but it works. Almost everything I've gotten there has been good and I have several "favorites". Plus the pub menu is so cheap. They have a nice small curated selection of beers. The atmosphere is top notch. The old wood and seats and lighting plus all the nooks and crannys all work together to make it feel like a real cozy Irish pub. They've created a real "experience" you can't get anywhere else in Oklahoma.
I liked what the White Owl did with the spot. It was a great place to watch games and play pool. The Pint removed the pool table. It is loud in there though but so is Kilkennys. I liked what I got when I went to Main Street Tavern. It is neat they're focusing on their downtown a little bit in BA. It might do better than the Pint or White Owl because it is a bit more distinguished and they did have a couple specialties that stood out.
However, as you say, the Pint might've been doing well. Most every time I went in, it was crowded.
Funny you mention the wings. We got them first time we went when they first opened. They arrived medium rare.
GHACK!
Quote from: Conan71 on June 16, 2017, 12:38:02 PM
Funny you mention the wings. We got them first time we went when they first opened. They arrived medium rare.
GHACK!
What? You don't like your fowl a little bloody? ;) Also known as 'salmonella red'?
Quote from: Hoss on June 16, 2017, 03:24:58 PM
What? You don't like your fowl a little bloody? ;) Also known as 'salmonella red'?
I'm not a fan of spending my weekend toilet-bound.
I always liked The Pint even though the food was just okay. I've heard Main Street Tavern is pretty good, but I've never been. I can't imagine it will be a drop off. It will be the same or better, I presume.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 15, 2017, 07:09:12 PM
The Pint was really meh. We gave it several shots and nothing about it ever resonated with us. The food was almost okay to okay and craft beer is not a unique offering for bars or pubs these days. I've tried to think what about The Pint or the White Owl is so different from Kilkenny's in trying to figure out why Kilkenny's has seemed to work for so long. Is it the more cozy public house atmosphere of Kilkenny's which makes it more inviting? The White Owl/Pint space has always seemed like a cavernous noise machine to me.
Main Street Tavern is nothing special either. Ubiquitous bar eats and a decent drink and beer menu, but nothing really memorable.
Of course, we are speaking as if The Pint failed. For all we know, this Main Street Tavern guy simply liked the location and made the owners of The Pint an offer they couldn't refuse.
Eh I think Main Street Tavern has far better food, at least compared to the Pint. To be honest though, Cherry Street has enough of the pub style restaurants. It needs something different, like some really good Thai, sushi, or BBQ. Honestly, I would dig some good Asian style food in that area. I have tried Roka, and it is just disappointing.
Changing topic:
Just saw that OrangeTheory is going in where Noodles vacated. Maybe I missed it, but I hadn't heard anything about this. I assumed another food spot would open there. I'm personally very disappointed that a fitness center is taking such a great spot. Would love to hear some thoughts.
Quote from: RazorBird on June 24, 2017, 12:20:45 PM
Changing topic:
Just saw that OrangeTheory is going in where Noodles vacated. Maybe I missed it, but I hadn't heard anything about this. I assumed another food spot would open there. I'm personally very disappointed that a fitness center is taking such a great spot. Would love to hear some thoughts.
It won't last....
Ugh. Can we please get some understanding that mid-town, especially 15th Street, is different than other parts of town? Can we please stop this monstrosity from taking over the half-dozen buildings they want to raze to sell gas and chips? Can we stick to small footprint gas stations in midtown? I just don't understand how this is a good idea for anyone other than QT.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/PreserveMidtown/posts/?ref=page_internal
Hasn't that ship kind of already sailed at that intersection? I mean it's neighbors will be Walgreens, Office Depot and Reasor's with out parcels, all suburban developments in midtown.
Ironic that it is at this intersection...
https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/5/26/stop-shoehorning-suburbia-into-walkable-places
#RESIST
This seems like a woefully small intersection to handle the sort of traffic this will draw.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 29, 2017, 11:47:25 AM
This seems like a woefully small intersection to handle the sort of traffic this will draw.
That was actually my first thought. Are left turns allowed off 15th at Lewis?
Quote from: erfalf on August 29, 2017, 11:52:00 AM
That was actually my first thought. Are left turns allowed off 15th at Lewis?
There are restricted lefts in both directions during certain hours which most people ignore anyhow.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on August 29, 2017, 11:00:34 AM
Ironic that it is at this intersection...
Was this Bill & Ruth's originally a QT?
I work 1 block away. That intersection is woefully not pedestrian friendly.
It's a crapshoot whether or not each corner has a cross button to get to your destination corner.
I usually just walk down to 16th or so and jaywalk. It's safer.
Table Talk: Nola's Creole and Cocktails to open on Cherry Street in the fallhttp://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-nola-s-creole-and-cocktails-to-open-on/article_61c760fc-55d1-5ce9-a81f-d6d837bfd3ad.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-nola-s-creole-and-cocktails-to-open-on/article_61c760fc-55d1-5ce9-a81f-d6d837bfd3ad.html)
QuoteNola's Creole and Cocktails is scheduled to open this fall on Cherry Street, according to its website.
"Nola's brings the great tastes of New Orleans to Cherry Street," it says on the website.
It will be in the former Gray Snail Saloon space at 1334 E. 15th St.
A menu on the website lists a variety of "small plates," including seared foie gras terrine ($17), roasted Gulf shrimp ($11), cheese board ($16), boudin balls ($6), cracklins ($8) and daily sausage ($6). A dinner menu was not posted yet.
It will be open for lunch from 11 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. Tuesday-Saturday and dinner from 5-10 p.m. Tuesday-Thursday and 5-11 p.m. Friday-Saturday, according to the website. http://nolastulsa.com/ (http://nolastulsa.com/)
Quote from: BKDotCom on August 29, 2017, 12:01:13 PM
Was this Bill & Ruth's originally a QT?
I work 1 block away. That intersection is woefully not pedestrian friendly.
It's a crapshoot whether or not each corner has a cross button to get to your destination corner.
I usually just walk down to 16th or so and jaywalk. It's safer.
Yeah, I gotta think that intersection is already a complete lost cause with the other three corners being a suburban style Reasors, Staples and Walgreens. The two main buildings they are taking out are an ugly strip mall and a former convenience store.
Quote from: BKDotCom on August 29, 2017, 12:01:13 PM
Was this Bill & Ruth's originally a QT?
I work 1 block away. That intersection is woefully not pedestrian friendly.
It's a crapshoot whether or not each corner has a cross button to get to your destination corner.
I usually just walk down to 16th or so and jaywalk. It's safer.
Yes it was a QT before Bill & Ruths. I dont expect to hear why QT abandoned it in the first place, but maybe they now see the removal of the "Lil Reasors" gas station across the street as creating a gasoline desert.
I hope this isnt going to be another fight to get QT to obey lighting ordinances like 21st & Harvard was, but they seem to have gotten the message with the big Type III just built at 41st & Memorial.
But instead of improving the area, this is a further step away from density, urban, or walkable...
Quote from: cannon_fodder on August 29, 2017, 01:25:39 PM
But instead of improving the area, this is a further step away from density, urban, or walkable...
If
it's not broke nobody complains, why fix it?
Quote from: cannon_fodder on August 29, 2017, 01:25:39 PM
But instead of improving the area, this is a further step away from density, urban, or walkable...
Most (read most likely everyone) in the neighborhood drives to work. Gas stations, while ugly, are good business in neighborhoods like that. Even in the heart of Cherry Street, unless you work in one of those shops/restaurants, your tail is driving to work too.
This intersection may be a lost cause as it is, but a QT will make it significantly worse in every way imaginable.
As for the streets themselves, I doubt they can handle the increased traffic. 15th is no left turn anytime in the east bound lanes, and prohibited during morning and evening rush hours in the west bound lanes.
QT may be a great place to work and a good corporate citizen in many respects, but it is not doing anything positive in mid-town with its giant suburban footprint.
Quote from: DTowner on August 29, 2017, 02:34:25 PM
This intersection may be a lost cause as it is, but a QT will make it significantly worse in every way imaginable.
As for the streets themselves, I doubt they can handle the increased traffic. 15th is no left turn anytime in the east bound lanes, and prohibited during morning and evening rush hours in the west bound lanes.
QT may be a great place to work and a good corporate citizen in many respects, but it is not doing anything positive in mid-town with its giant suburban footprint.
They need a new urban store prototype for sections of cities like this.
Quote from: DTowner on August 29, 2017, 02:34:25 PM
15th is no left turn anytime in the east bound lanes, and prohibited during morning and evening rush hours in the west bound lanes.
Lucky for QT:
heading east: they'd be accessed by going straight... no left hand turn required
heading west: the property stretches a block east of the intersection. no need to turn left at the light - turn left into QT or Lewis Pl.
(https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21199811_1552458401480890_2339418007772239796_o.png?oh=9baeb5a60810596f77249b139bca18cf&oe=5A5E9965)
Quote from: swake on August 29, 2017, 02:54:31 PM
They need a new urban store prototype for sections of cities like this.
An urban store would be out of place in this little suburban oasis.
City of Tulsa needs to enforce overlays to prevent sprawling Office Depot, Walgreens, Reasors type development in what could/should be a walkable urban area
Quote from: BKDotCom on August 29, 2017, 03:20:27 PM
An urban store would be out of place in this little suburban oasis.
City of Tulsa needs to enforce overlays to prevent sprawling Office Depot, Walgreens, Reasors type development in what could/should be a walkable urban area
I agree this location is pointless, but 11th and Utica would have been a good place for a new urban format. A replacement for 36th and Peoria store too.
Quote from: BKDotCom on August 29, 2017, 03:20:27 PM
An urban store would be out of place in this little suburban oasis.
City of Tulsa needs to enforce overlays to prevent sprawling Office Depot, Walgreens, Reasors type development in what could/should be a walkable urban area
The south parking lot of the Office Despot across the street is always empty and unused.
If im looking at the drawing correctly, some homes along Lewis would be demolished for the new QT.
Quote from: patric on August 29, 2017, 04:09:02 PM
The south parking lot of the Office Despot across the street is always empty and unused.
Yup
Quote from: patric on August 29, 2017, 04:09:02 PM
If im looking at the drawing correctly, some homes along Lewis would be demolished for the new QT.
3 businesses (former homes) (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1399601,-95.9582027,3a,75y,113.88h,83.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLJpnAjnGN5F4dOuY3jitZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
(their ghosts are on the siteplan)
Quote from: patric on August 29, 2017, 01:20:07 PM
Yes it was a QT before Bill & Ruths. I dont expect to hear why QT abandoned it in the first place, but maybe they now see the removal of the "Lil Reasors" gas station across the street as creating a gasoline desert.
I hope this isnt going to be another fight to get QT to obey lighting ordinances like 21st & Harvard was, but they seem to have gotten the message with the big Type III just built at 41st & Memorial.
I think this may have been a U-Tote-Em or Git-N-Go unless I'm confusing this space with the one Duffy's is in now. I just don't recall when this was ever a QT. I can remember a liquor store being in there in high school.
Quote from: patric on August 29, 2017, 04:09:02 PM
The south parking lot of the Office Despot across the street is always empty and unused.
If im looking at the drawing correctly, some homes along Lewis would be demolished for the new QT.
I looked at Office Depot on Google Earth the other day and the only thing I can see the south lot would be used for is their loading dock.
We can grumble about QT all we want and needing an urban design, but their business model is very auto-centric at its core. I mean they are the leading gasoline retailer in the Tulsa market. I've never seen anything wrong with the design of 41st & Sheridan or 21st & Harvard and I think those are a good compromise (as long as the lighting meets Patric's approval ;) ). These 80,000 square foot lots like they have at 11th & Utica are excessive, that's more like a truck stop.
I just had a memory from a visit to London 30+ years ago. You couldn't find a gas station very easily. They seemed to be a bit out of the way compared to what we are used to in a place that grew up with cars like Tulsa. But we sure like our sprawl, don't we?
Sucks but...O well...Not smile you can do about it...
Quote from: Conan71 on August 29, 2017, 05:16:44 PM
I think this may have been a U-Tote-Em or Git-N-Go unless I'm confusing this space with the one Duffy's is in now. I just don't recall when this was ever a QT. I can remember a liquor store being in there in high school.
Bill and Ruth's was QT store #15, original style. Probably like a 4 pumper. Probably closed due to the small size and kept closed when the station across the street opened.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 29, 2017, 09:02:54 PM
Bill and Ruth's was QT store #15, original style. Probably like a 4 pumper. Probably closed due to the small size and kept closed when the station across the street opened.
Okay, I did confuse that with the former inhabitant of Duffy's. Now that you mention the four pump layout that sounds about right for the lot size.
According to my trusty 1971 Tulsa phone book, QuikTrip #15 was located at 3114 E Pine. Duffy's was indeed a U-Totem, I stopped there on the way to my after school job. There are no QuikTrips listed on 15th at all in the phone book and there is a Lamb's Phillips 66 listed at 1501 S Lewis. Seems to me U-Totem moved to the corner and was eventually bought out by Circle K. There is a Circle K listed at 1509 S Lewis in the 1989 phone book.
QuoteSociety, a burger restaurant by Rib Crib, to open on Cherry Street in mid June
The burger joint under the Rib Crib umbrella will highlight local products
Society, a new hamburger restaurant under the Rib Crib umbrella, is scheduled to open in mid-June, according to a company spokesperson.
Society will be at 1419 E. 15th St. next to Hideaway Pizza in space that formerly held a Quiznos.
"It will be our take on a classic burger joint," said spokesman Garrett Mills. "Of course, the focus will be on burgers, but we also will have sandwiches, salads, appetizers and sides. There also will be a big emphasis on the bar."
Mills said it will be a full-service bar with 16 beer taps that will feature all local beers.
"Society is all about highlighting the work of fellow Tulsans," Mills said. "We will use Rose Rock Microcreamery for our shakes, Pancho Anaya for our buns and Walke Brothers in Claremore for our meats."
Society will be open for lunch and dinner seven days a week.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/blogs/restaurants/society-a-burger-restaurant-by-rib-crib-to-open-on/article_731f8008-3d15-50a3-adc7-4b9d0bcfc182.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/blogs/restaurants/society-a-burger-restaurant-by-rib-crib-to-open-on/article_731f8008-3d15-50a3-adc7-4b9d0bcfc182.html)
Quote from: Conan71 on August 29, 2017, 09:36:53 PM
Okay, I did confuse that with the former inhabitant of Duffy's. Now that you mention the four pump layout that sounds about right for the lot size.
Resurrecting the 4-pump service at that location would have been completely acceptable and likely met with no resistance, but these days QT is The Borg.
Society Burger opens Monday.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/blogs/restaurants/table-talk-society-a-new-burger-restaurant-to-open-monday/article_4de6a8e8-7ae5-54c7-b8cc-cbc4696aa222.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/blogs/restaurants/table-talk-society-a-new-burger-restaurant-to-open-monday/article_4de6a8e8-7ae5-54c7-b8cc-cbc4696aa222.html)
It appears that Andolini's is working on something new next to their Cherry Street Pizza location, and across from their recently opened STG Gelateria.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 14, 2018, 01:28:44 PM
Society Burger opens Monday.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/blogs/restaurants/table-talk-society-a-new-burger-restaurant-to-open-monday/article_4de6a8e8-7ae5-54c7-b8cc-cbc4696aa222.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/blogs/restaurants/table-talk-society-a-new-burger-restaurant-to-open-monday/article_4de6a8e8-7ae5-54c7-b8cc-cbc4696aa222.html)
Rib Crib umbrella... that ought to immediately make it just so-so. No doubt will give it a try, but I certainly don't expect much.
We did renew our acquaintance with Hank's last weekend!! It is still amazing as always! Have been distracted by Ron's and Lot-A-Burger for a long time, but Ron's changed their french fries - at least at 2 of them we go to - and it just ain't the same. Still massive, but flavor is different and not as good.
We can live with 'lesser' fries for a better burger. Hank's is it. Ron's is tied for 2nd with Lot-A
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 14, 2018, 06:10:33 PM
Rib Crib umbrella... that ought to immediately make it just so-so. No doubt will give it a try, but I certainly don't expect much.
We did renew our acquaintance with Hank's last weekend!! It is still amazing as always! Have been distracted by Ron's and Lot-A-Burger for a long time, but Ron's changed their french fries - at least at 2 of them we go to - and it just ain't the same. Still massive, but flavor is different and not as good.
We can live with 'lesser' fries for a better burger. Hank's is it. Ron's is tied for 2nd with Lot-A
If you don't stay on top of the oil in the fryers, that can change a whole lot of the flavor. If you want a good idea if a place is about to go tits up, generally their fried product is going to be somewhat rank.
After spending two days with a power washer, waders and a mask cleaning up the mess from fry-o-lators from the business which used to inhabit the space our brewery is in, I really could care less about deep fried foods these days. We sure as hell aren't serving any on our menu.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 14, 2018, 07:37:51 PM
If you don't stay on top of the oil in the fryers, that can change a whole lot of the flavor. If you want a good idea if a place is about to go tits up, generally their fried product is going to be somewhat rank.
After spending two days with a power washer, waders and a mask cleaning up the mess from fry-o-lators from the business which used to inhabit the space our brewery is in, I really could care less about deep fried foods these days. We sure as hell aren't serving any on our menu.
Ron's problem is that they changed the potato cut itself. They are somewhere between 1/16" and 1/8" thicker/wider than they used to be. It is amazing how much difference that one little thing can make. They even substituted frozen crinkle cut fries for a couple of months earlier this year, saying their machine was broken and couldn't get parts. Implying this was done at another location! What happened to "fresh cut fries" that is splattered all over their menu?
Anyway, the fries are still decent, just not as good as they used to be. What really irked me was they way they have lied about it the last 3 times we have been in - telling us the machine is fixed and it's all back the same as before. It's not. 3 times is a charm, so guess it is good thing we got back to the garden...er, uh, Hank's! By the way, their fries are only fair - they use crinkle cut, too. If you remember/like Braum's fries - like that.
As for the oil, I couldn't detect a difference with that - and I can detect that!
No fried food...!!?? Oh, no...that's Communistic..!!! No pickles? No Snickers?? What are people gonna eat there???
I have a fryer that is clean, but getting ready to recommission, just gonna take it to the car wash and start there to get it back to shiny new look! Or maybe start with methyl chloride and then car wash... Whatever to get that light brown residue off. May be a sandblaster moment!
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 15, 2018, 08:54:38 AM
Ron's problem is that they changed the potato cut itself. They are somewhere between 1/16" and 1/8" thicker/wider than they used to be. It is amazing how much difference that one little thing can make. They even substituted frozen crinkle cut fries for a couple of months earlier this year, saying their machine was broken and couldn't get parts. Implying this was done at another location! What happened to "fresh cut fries" that is splattered all over their menu?
Anyway, the fries are still decent, just not as good as they used to be. What really irked me was they way they have lied about it the last 3 times we have been in - telling us the machine is fixed and it's all back the same as before. It's not. 3 times is a charm, so guess it is good thing we got back to the garden...er, uh, Hank's! By the way, their fries are only fair - they use crinkle cut, too. If you remember/like Braum's fries - like that.
As for the oil, I couldn't detect a difference with that - and I can detect that!
No fried food...!!?? Oh, no...that's Communistic..!!! No pickles? No Snickers?? What are people gonna eat there???
I have a fryer that is clean, but getting ready to recommission, just gonna take it to the car wash and start there to get it back to shiny new look! Or maybe start with methyl chloride and then car wash... Whatever to get that light brown residue off. May be a sandblaster moment!
My favorite fries from them were from the now-defunct 21st and Garnett location. We knew the owner and he was super nice to us. Too bad he didn't know how to run a business (aka pay his state taxes..which is what got him shut down). He cut them thicker, but when I went to my now default location across the street from my work (15th/Sheridan) they cut their fries thinner and they tasted a little different. Although I typically go there for the sausage cheeseburger (tastes the same in all locations).
Quote from: Hoss on June 15, 2018, 09:04:40 AM
My favorite fries from them were from the now-defunct 21st and Garnett location. We knew the owner and he was super nice to us. Too bad he didn't know how to run a business (aka pay his state taxes..which is what got him shut down). He cut them thicker, but when I went to my now default location across the street from my work (15th/Sheridan) they cut their fries thinner and they tasted a little different. Although I typically go there for the sausage cheeseburger (tastes the same in all locations).
I like the thicker fries ok, but have always gone to Ron's for the combo of pretty good burger and great fries! Willing to put up with lesser burger for greater fries...the 'total' was '10'. Now, with the 'fryasco', it's a solid 7.5.
15th & Sheridan - whew! I worked in that area for 20 years or so...long time ago. Used to eat at Ken's - on the east side of Sheridan. And then Ken's on west when they moved. And then Mazzio's. Would go to Bill's Tires with a friend to get cheap used tires every week in high school - would wear them out over the following week and go back for more. I think some of those tire streaks must still be there under layers of asphalt!
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 14, 2018, 06:10:33 PM
Rib Crib umbrella... that ought to immediately make it just so-so. No doubt will give it a try, but I certainly don't expect much.
We did renew our acquaintance with Hank's last weekend!! It is still amazing as always! Have been distracted by Ron's and Lot-A-Burger for a long time, but Ron's changed their french fries - at least at 2 of them we go to - and it just ain't the same. Still massive, but flavor is different and not as good.
We can live with 'lesser' fries for a better burger. Hank's is it. Ron's is tied for 2nd with Lot-A
I'm going to give it a shot and hope it's good. Tons of burger places so competition is stiff. They better really set their burgers apart.
I like Rib Crib as a "fast-food BBQ" place. Cheap family packs and decent ribs available quickly. Their places are great for family get togethers without breaking the bank and atmosphere is typically pretty good (especially 15th and Harvard and downtown). I don't remember if it's the smoked turkey or chicken I like more, but those are pretty good and consistent. And the spicy mustard is good.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 15, 2018, 03:32:47 PM
I'm going to give it a shot and hope it's good. Tons of burger places so competition is stiff. They better really set their burgers apart.
I like Rib Crib as a "fast-food BBQ" place. Cheap family packs and decent ribs available quickly. Their places are great for family get togethers without breaking the bank and atmosphere is typically pretty good (especially 15th and Harvard and downtown). I don't remember if it's the smoked turkey or chicken I like more, but those are pretty good and consistent. And the spicy mustard is good.
We will no doubt try it soon, too. Always looking for a good burger.
Go way out east on 71st and try Smokies. You will lose interest in Rib Crib for everything but used oil to make biodiesel...
Anyone know what the plans are for the two empty lots where they tore down existing buildings on 15th at Columbia and Delaware? That stretch right there has potential and nice neighborhoods on both sides but looks pretty rundown in its current state.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 17, 2018, 04:18:36 PM
We will no doubt try it soon, too. Always looking for a good burger.
Go way out east on 71st and try Smokies. You will lose interest in Rib Crib for everything but used oil to make biodiesel...
I just don't typically want to drive that far. I'd rather pick up rib crib and eat in a matter of minutes than spend an hour driving to get vastly superior BBQ. I don't like waiting in Burn Co lines either.
Quote from: SXSW on June 18, 2018, 09:48:26 AM
Anyone know what the plans are for the two empty lots where they tore down existing buildings on 15th at Columbia and Delaware? That stretch right there has potential and nice neighborhoods on both sides but looks pretty rundown in its current state.
That is the new site for Bill and Ruths which QT is buying/destroying at 15th and Lewis. It's a shame they destroyed those interesting Mid-century looking buildings but will be a good addition to have another restaurant in the Renaissance Neighborhood.
I'm upset about how they demolished the neat buildings at 15th and Delaware Ave, just to leave it an empty eye sore for 5+ years now...
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 18, 2018, 12:42:28 PM
I just don't typically want to drive that far. I'd rather pick up rib crib and eat in a matter of minutes than spend an hour driving to get vastly superior BBQ. I don't like waiting in Burn Co lines either.
It is a drive, but we like drives in the country from time to time. And that is a great place to 'land'.
Albert G's might make a good intermediate stop - it's just as good, and in middle of town.
A longer drive in the country - still not 'long' - for us is Pawhuska to go see the Pioneer Woman restaurant - we have tried to go their 3 times and so far, the lines have been 2+ hours! We did find a good little Mexican restaurant in town, though, so it wasn't a bust! Can't remember name - corner of 99 and 11. Good place to stop after a drive through the Tallgrass Prairie and some buffalo watching!! (The barbeque place there isn't that great...certainly not worth the trip, but marginally edible if that's the only place open...)
Be sure to detour through Nelagoney on the way... Well, maybe not - it's interesting to us for a couple of old buildings, but not much there....
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2018, 01:41:29 PM
It is a drive, but we like drives in the country from time to time. And that is a great place to 'land'.
Albert G's might make a good intermediate stop - it's just as good, and in middle of town.
A longer drive in the country - still not 'long' - for us is Pawhuska to go see the Pioneer Woman restaurant - we have tried to go their 3 times and so far, the lines have been 2+ hours! We did find a good little Mexican restaurant in town, though, so it wasn't a bust! Can't remember name - corner of 99 and 11. Good place to stop after a drive through the Tallgrass Prairie and some buffalo watching!! (The barbeque place there isn't that great...certainly not worth the trip, but marginally edible if that's the only place open...)
Be sure to detour through Nelagoney on the way... Well, maybe not - it's interesting to us for a couple of old buildings, but not much there....
Or there's always The Pig (Knotty Pig) at 15th/Sheridan (actually 15th just east of Sheridan in the old Hardens space).
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 18, 2018, 12:44:25 PM
That is the new site for Bill and Ruths which QT is buying/destroying at 15th and Lewis. It's a shame they destroyed those interesting Mid-century looking buildings but will be a good addition to have another restaurant in the Renaissance Neighborhood.
I'm upset about how they demolished the neat buildings at 15th and Delaware Ave, just to leave it an empty eye sore for 5+ years now...
Hopefully B&R is building out to the sidewalk/corner at 15th & Columbia.
Quote from: Hoss on June 18, 2018, 02:09:42 PM
Or there's always The Pig (Knotty Pig) at 15th/Sheridan (actually 15th just east of Sheridan in the old Hardens space).
Hoping you will make that 550 mile drive to try our BBQ and brews once we are open. We've created quite a stir with a few catering gigs in the village.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 18, 2018, 05:47:52 PM
Hoping you will make that 550 mile drive to try our BBQ and brews once we are open. We've created quite a stir with a few catering gigs in the village.
I keep putting it off but work is not being kind to me. I took a week off in May to take care of some personal stuff. I have another 10 days of vacation so that might be on my list. I'm curious to try your beers once there.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 18, 2018, 05:47:52 PM
Hoping you will make that 550 mile drive to try our BBQ and brews once we are open. We've created quite a stir with a few catering gigs in the village.
Say, what...?? Don't want us to come visit...??
I can understand...lol...
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2018, 07:03:37 PM
Say, what...?? Don't want us to come visit...??
I can understand...lol...
But of course, I thought that was an unsaid invitation.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 18, 2018, 11:29:43 PM
But of course, I thought that was an unsaid invitation.
No, no, no...too late now! You specifically pointed out Hoss and invited, but very carefully did not invite in this direction...! I can tell - you don't want us to come enjoy good barbeque...! Well, we may just try to get by there anyway, if we get a chance, even if you don't want us... Lol...!
I know...this post ain't 'polished'... I need more practice at "petulant child" approach... Hey, Breadburner, (or guido??) can you help me out some with that??
Building a patio into the parking lot as part of Society Burger is a nice addition to the neighborhood.
I can't believe they tore out the patio and all of the trees in front of the old Does Eat Place / D'vina. Restaurants have had a tough go of it in that spot, but to tear out the nice thing about it along with all of the trees? I just don't get it. If they pave it over to accommodate a few cars, I'll just give up completely.
Quote from: DowntownDan on June 19, 2018, 09:30:00 AM
I can't believe they tore out the patio and all of the trees in front of the old Does Eat Place / D'vina. Restaurants have had a tough go of it in that spot, but to tear out the nice thing about it along with all of the trees? I just don't get it. If they pave it over to accommodate a few cars, I'll just give up completely.
That's a shame. It was the only thing that kept us coming back to try it.
Quote from: DowntownDan on June 19, 2018, 09:30:00 AM
Building a patio into the parking lot as part of Society Burger is a nice addition to the neighborhood.
I can't believe they tore out the patio and all of the trees in front of the old Does Eat Place / D'vina. Restaurants have had a tough go of it in that spot, but to tear out the nice thing about it along with all of the trees? I just don't get it. If they pave it over to accommodate a few cars, I'll just give up completely.
I thought they were just expanding/rebuilding the patio there?
Quote from: SXSW on June 19, 2018, 01:46:32 PM
I thought they were just expanding/rebuilding the patio there?
I have no idea. That would be nice. But they mowed down all the trees and plants.
Quote from: DowntownDan on June 20, 2018, 10:28:22 AM
I have no idea. That would be nice. But they mowed down all the trees and plants.
Also no idea, but most of successful patios in Tulsa are fully covered, with misters, etc. (Maybe all of them. I'm trying to think of one that isn't fully covered, with some kind of cooling mechanism.) So, the trees have to go. I hope they do it right, as that will add one more spot that we can take the dog to.
The Nest announced that their building is being torn down. The building next door (formerly La Madeline) is looking like it's being set up for demolition as well. Seems strange since it's a decent building, similar to Full Moon/Crushed Red, and the renovation must have cost some money and was fairly recent. Anyone know if the La Madeline building is coming down or if they are just doing new extensive renovations?
Quote from: DowntownDan on July 23, 2018, 09:46:20 AM
The Nest announced that their building is being torn down. The building next door (formerly La Madeline) is looking like it's being set up for demolition as well. Seems strange since it's a decent building, similar to Full Moon/Crushed Red, and the renovation must have cost some money and was fairly recent. Anyone know if the La Madeline building is coming down or if they are just doing new extensive renovations?
Interested to find out what is going in there, must be a large project to require demolition of both buildings.
Quote from: DowntownDan on July 23, 2018, 09:46:20 AM
The Nest announced that their building is being torn down. The building next door (formerly La Madeline) is looking like it's being set up for demolition as well. Seems strange since it's a decent building, similar to Full Moon/Crushed Red, and the renovation must have cost some money and was fairly recent. Anyone know if the La Madeline building is coming down or if they are just doing new extensive renovations?
The La Madeline building looks like a rehab to me, not a tear down, but I have no inside knowledge on the subject.
Quote from: AdamsHall on July 23, 2018, 11:17:17 AM
The La Madeline building looks like a rehab to me, not a tear down, but I have no inside knowledge on the subject.
That's what I thought, and there's still a "for lease" sign, but the tear up looks pretty major and I'm starting to worry it's being prepped for a tear down. Throw in that the Nest has confirmed that their building is being torn down, and I'm worried the whole block is going away.
Quote from: DowntownDan on July 23, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
That's what I thought, and there's still a "for lease" sign, but the tear up looks pretty major and I'm starting to worry it's being prepped for a tear down. Throw in that the Nest has confirmed that their building is being torn down, and I'm worried the whole block is going away.
I was just looking at this on Google streets going back to 2007 and it looks like in the last 11 years a lot of remodeling has been done to these two buildings. Could it be that with all of the changes before 2007 and those since, that the cost of a new remodel and bringing it up to code exceeds the cost of building new?
In addition to the mystery surrounding the Nest/La Madeleine building does anyone have any updates on the following Cherry Street projects?
1. Doe's Eat Place/D'Vina - lots of work has been happening but not sure what is going in there and what their plans are for the outdoor patio space
2. Streetscape - are there any plans to enhance the streetscape along 15th widening the sidewalks, adding new curbs and planters/trees where they have the pavement markings? I thought that was something the city was discussing
Quote from: SXSW on July 30, 2018, 10:33:03 AM
In addition to the mystery surrounding the Nest/La Madeleine building does anyone have any updates on the following Cherry Street projects?
1. Doe's Eat Place/D'Vina - lots of work has been happening but not sure what is going in there and what their plans are for the outdoor patio space
2. Streetscape - are there any plans to enhance the streetscape along 15th widening the sidewalks, adding new curbs and planters/trees where they have the pavement markings? I thought that was something the city was discussing
1. The Nest announced that when their building goes down they will temporarily be in the dry cleaner spot across the street and will eventually move into the Does Eat Place/D'Vina spot. I guess that's why they tore out the patio, since it won't be a restaurant anymore.
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37062804_1769796919769426_7780353176762318848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=b5613bd9bb01d0a800f011eff6622a62&oe=5BD0D11B)
2. Cherry Street is still on the list for major redo. I attended a meeting a while back with the plans. They said that the north-south streets (Lewis, Utica) were first. They've gotten a lot done but are still working. I think Cherry Street is still a long way off to its rehaul. I think I also heard that the farmer's market would move to 11th and Lewis, in front of Mother Road Market. Possibly permanently. I haven't heard anything in a while on that issue.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Dqzlhdnu6jV3hJMDJDLU56ZWc (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Dqzlhdnu6jV3hJMDJDLU56ZWc)
Quote from: SXSW on July 30, 2018, 10:33:03 AM
2. Streetscape - are there any plans to enhance the streetscape along 15th widening the sidewalks, adding new curbs and planters/trees where they have the pavement markings? I thought that was something the city was discussing
Please God No Acorns (over 1000 Lumens).
The Blue Dome lights look nice, would like to see us get away from the cold-blue welding-torch look of early LEDs.
Quote from: patric on August 03, 2018, 12:00:55 PM
Please God No Acorns (over 1000 Lumens).
The Blue Dome lights look nice, would like to see us get away from the cold-blue welding-torch look of early LEDs.
Upcoming public meeting scheduled Aug. 13 about the design of a street rehabilitation project planned for E. 15th St., between S. Lewis Ave. and S. Harvard Ave. The meeting will be at 6 p.m. in Christ the King Catholic Church, 1520 S. Rockford Ave. The street design isn't yet final, but is probably pretty close. So this is the last chance to let people know what you would like.
Quote from: buffalodan on August 03, 2018, 12:58:50 PM
Upcoming public meeting scheduled Aug. 13 about the design of a street rehabilitation project planned for E. 15th St., between S. Lewis Ave. and S. Harvard Ave. The meeting will be at 6 p.m. in Christ the King Catholic Church, 1520 S. Rockford Ave. The street design isn't yet final, but is probably pretty close. So this is the last chance to let people know what you would like.
Great, thank you.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 23, 2018, 11:41:31 AMI was just looking at this on Google streets going back to 2007 and it looks like in the last 11 years a lot of remodeling has been done to these two buildings. Could it be that with all of the changes before 2007 and those since, that the cost of a new remodel and bringing it up to code exceeds the cost of building new?
Now there is yellow sign providing notice of a "requested zoning change" in front of the old La Madeline. Rut roh.
Quote from: AdamsHall on August 20, 2018, 11:02:17 AM
Now there is yellow sign providing notice of a "requested zoning change" in front of the old La Madeline. Rut roh.
I was told that it was being converted to retail. That wouldn't require a zoning change, would it?
Quote from: AdamsHall on August 20, 2018, 11:02:17 AM
Now there is yellow sign providing notice of a "requested zoning change" in front of the old La Madeline. Rut roh.
Mixed use with upstairs residential? Maybe?
Quote from: AngieB on August 20, 2018, 03:08:46 PM
I was told that it was being converted to retail. That wouldn't require a zoning change, would it?
As a guess, it might require the zoning change to retail from food and beverage because the building codes are different? I'm thinking fire suppression, electrical, plumbing requirement and HVAC?
So I understand that Lucky's is done.
Quote from: Townsend on September 11, 2018, 11:36:23 AM
So I understand that Lucky's is done.
It definitely appears that way from the curb.
Tulsa World (https://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/blogs/restaurants/table-talk-lucky-s-ends--year-run-on-cherry/article_cce21a7a-90f4-519d-a71a-d4f7c3dcf35a.html)
I guess their luck ran out
Quote from: BKDotCom on September 11, 2018, 01:52:20 PM
It definitely appears that way from the curb.
Tulsa World (https://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/blogs/restaurants/table-talk-lucky-s-ends--year-run-on-cherry/article_cce21a7a-90f4-519d-a71a-d4f7c3dcf35a.html)
I guess their luck ran out
Seemed to work well for Matt & Brooke. Change of ownership must have made the difference aside from I think Matt was the chef prior to the sale.
Quote from: Townsend on September 11, 2018, 11:36:23 AM
So I understand that Lucky's is done.
I think its going to change to "spudders north"
Anyone noticed some narrow homes going up on the former parking lots at 14th & Cheyenne? This is the site where townhomes were once proposed near the old synagogue. It would be great to see more of this on those lots between Boulder and Cheyenne.
Quote from: SXSW on September 17, 2018, 04:19:09 PM
Anyone noticed some narrow homes going up on the former parking lots at 14th & Cheyenne? This is the site where townhomes were once proposed near the old synagogue. It would be great to see more of this on those lots between Boulder and Cheyenne.
Those are called Carlton Place town homes, there will be six to start and possibly more stretching down to 15th St.
Really happy to see the parking lots finally being filled up. My only quibble is that there are like five windows (all on one side) in these things and they don't present to the street at all.
Quote from: carltonplace on September 18, 2018, 01:24:42 PM
Those are called Carlton Place town homes, there will be six to start and possibly more stretching down to 15th St.
Really happy to see the parking lots finally being filled up. My only quibble is that there are like five windows (all on one side) in these things and they don't present to the street at all.
I get what you're saying, a couple more windows would be better. Something more like the Tudors on 22nd. Hopefully this leads to more infill in the neighborhood.
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21272539_1288245244635916_2459288386184895767_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c56abb96f5531332d95d3b8f0dfa3671&oe=5C63090B)
I'm less upset now about them tearing out the patio at D'vina. Looks like a full makeover of this into retail and office and what looks like a patio space for a cafe. Looks like it will be a nice development.
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42532732_1877473679001749_4975269993764618240_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&oh=7398e5d7e10e4a711b8fdc6f654cf50b&oe=5C15C6AF)
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42526233_1877473655668418_1153507424045367296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&oh=10a8ca60ce8d71552ab6cf073294f7e3&oe=5C5EBBCD)
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42498218_1877473672335083_6222247682971271168_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&oh=f03d8ab7bb4698f28942070db8a3d2c5&oe=5C26034B)
Good to see, though too bad they couldn't keep the big trees.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 26, 2018, 10:13:01 AM
I'm less upset now about them tearing out the patio at D'vina. Looks like a full makeover of this into retail and office and what looks like a patio space for a cafe. Looks like it will be a nice development.
That does look a lot better. Going from something that looks like a Miami-esque strip club to a respectable urban-looking development that will fit the area well.
It looked so much better when it was Doe's. Glad D'vina didn't last long because they ruined the look of that corner.
Another rendering of the project at 15th & Quincy. James Boswell is the architect.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/022046773943/media/124168257208/medium/1540225348/enhance)
Anyone know the latest on the former La Madeleine space at 15th & St Louis?
Quote from: SXSW on October 22, 2018, 11:20:10 AMAnyone know the latest on the former La Madeleine space at 15th & St Louis?
I drive by frequently and they have fencing up around it now and all of the AC units are sitting in the parking lot behind the building. That makes me think tear down, which surprises me in this situation.
Quote from: AdamsHall on October 22, 2018, 02:39:10 PM
I drive by frequently and they have fencing up around it now and all of the AC units are sitting in the parking lot behind the building. That makes me think tear down, which surprises me in this situation.
This was in the TW today, 4 story building with retail along 15th and apartments above. Same developer and architect as Roosevelt's. Bruce G Weber??
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/022046773943/media/124169040611/medium/1540248540/enhance)
Couldn't find the article for the life of me. Could you post a link?
https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/new-retail-restaurants-apartments-planned-for-cherry-street/article_15962982-e8f8-5e15-9324-12bf802f93e1.html
Kind of shocked to see Bruce G Weber moving to Cherry Street. There will be also be a rooftop bar/restaurant called Sidecar above the apartments.
I'm happy to see they are preserving the La Madeline building for Bruce G. Weber and essentially building around it for the larger development. I like seeing more density in midtown. Rents will probably be a ton for the apartments though.
Quote from: DowntownDan on October 23, 2018, 09:30:48 AM
I'm happy to see they are preserving the La Madeline building for Bruce G. Weber and essentially building around it for the larger development. I like seeing more density in midtown. Rents will probably be a ton for the apartments though.
Probably but they are pretty small apartments, only 625 to 800 SF per the article. The views should be good there. This same apartments/condos over retail concept would be great to see on the parking lot at Lincoln Plaza by Nola's/Jason's Deli/Chimi's.
Quote from: SXSW on October 23, 2018, 09:41:20 AM
Probably but they are pretty small apartments, only 625 to 800 SF per the article. The views should be good there. This same apartments/condos over retail concept would be great to see on the parking lot at Lincoln Plaza by Nola's/Jason's Deli/Chimi's.
Article mentioned it's a $9 million investment and will have 28,000 square feet. That is $325/ft2 cost total! That is quite a high dollar build! Developer did mention land is so pricey on Cherry St now that you have to build up for numbers to work. Still, they must be making it up very nice with a really high end look for that price (and wooing Bruce G Weber over).
If they have 15 units around 700 square foot average and fetching around ~$1200/month ($18k/mo), that leaves 17500 for retail and restaurant space. Class A Space looks to be going around $2-$2.50/mo/ft2 on Cherry St (So ~$35k/mo for remaining space). That adds up to $636k/year which is ~7% ROI assuming 100% year-round occupancy at those pretty high rates and not including maintenance or any other costs. That seems like pretty slim margins for that sort of investment, but glad they're doing it and making something so nice.
A decent rule-of-thumb is you aim to get about 1% of the total value of property in rent per month, but that's getting much harder to do with real estate prices like they've been recently. So ideally $90,000/month for this place so you could pay the mortgage and still have some left over. That doesn't seem possible for this place. Glad the developer who has a history making some good places is doing this one.
Good development for Cherry Street; Oklahoman: https://www.oklahoman.com/new-retail-restaurants-apartments-planned-for-tulsas-cherry-street/article/5612524 (https://www.oklahoman.com/new-retail-restaurants-apartments-planned-for-tulsas-cherry-street/article/5612524)
QuoteIt marks Phillips' fourth development on Cherry Street, pushing his investment in the area to about $35 million. Groundbreaking is scheduled for 1 p.m. Tuesday, and the development could be completed by next fall.
"You don't get to do a lot of projects that have just that 'cool' factor," Phillips said. "It's just one of special buildings that when we get it out of the ground, it's going to look pretty cool."
Applaud Oklahomans who invest in their own communities; a true way of giving back. Duane Phillips' fourth development on Cherry Street, a beautiful area Tulsa residents continue to upkeep & maintain.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 23, 2018, 10:59:37 AM
Article mentioned it's a $9 million investment and will have 28,000 square feet. That is $325/ft2 cost total! That is quite a high dollar build! Developer did mention land is so pricey on Cherry St now that you have to build up for numbers to work. Still, they must be making it up very nice with a really high end look for that price (and wooing Bruce G Weber over).
If they have 15 units around 700 square foot average and fetching around ~$1200/month ($18k/mo), that leaves 17500 for retail and restaurant space. Class A Space looks to be going around $2-$2.50/mo/ft2 on Cherry St (So ~$35k/mo for remaining space). That adds up to $636k/year which is ~7% ROI assuming 100% year-round occupancy at those pretty high rates and not including maintenance or any other costs. That seems like pretty slim margins for that sort of investment, but glad they're doing it and making something so nice.
Must be the tax advantages of depreciation to help shore up the 7% margin. Not really sure how all that works for commercial development as I've only had experience on residential rental units or depreciable business assets on a very small scale. Since I no longer live in Tulsa and only get to return every 3-6 months, it's rather exciting to see all the changes whenever I make a return trip.
"Another irony is that Cherry Street's success could become its biggest threat, if it attracts developers who don't appreciate the area's unique appeal and want to "suburbanize" it. . .
The owner of Oak Properties LLC, Phillips is behind two recent developments on 15th. The Cherry Street Ridge building, with Chipotle as an anchor tenant, has an Art Deco flare. And the even more recent 1551 Building, with Roosevelt's pub as an anchor, offers a modern interpretation of the older red-brick storefronts along the street.
Both buildings fit seamlessly into the historic fabric of Cherry Street.
Now Phillips is building a $9 million project called 1515 Cherry Street and The Lofts at 1515, but it will stand out more because it will be noticeably taller than its neighbors. Architectural renderings appear to show four or five stories in an area where one or two is the norm. . .
At street level, however, the new development will respect the storefront aesthetic that makes Cherry Street so charming."
https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/michael-overall-cherry-street-is-trending-upward-in-more-ways/article_14d3ac50-539c-5fa4-a0b9-496125d98e94.html
As I missing something in this article. The author is concerned about suburban development taking over Cherry Street, but then discusses three new additions that all "respect" the Cherry Street vibe. Has there been something that has come in contrary to the urban/walkable character?
Quote from: Dspike on November 05, 2018, 10:11:48 AM
"Another irony is that Cherry Street's success could become its biggest threat, if it attracts developers who don't appreciate the area's unique appeal and want to "suburbanize" it. . .
https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/michael-overall-cherry-street-is-trending-upward-in-more-ways/article_14d3ac50-539c-5fa4-a0b9-496125d98e94.html
As I missing something in this article. The author is concerned about suburban development taking over Cherry Street, but then discusses three new additions that all "respect" the Cherry Street vibe. Has there been something that has come in contrary to the urban/walkable character?
The CVS was one although they made that as nice as it could be for being a CVS. It is one of the nicest most urban-looking CVS's I've seen, besides some of them in downtowns in larger cities.
I think the article is basically saying we are lucky we have developers like Phillips who is doing it right and that if it gets really financially desirable to build larger in Cherry Street, developers might demolish some of the old buildings and replace with much larger buildings that may not fit the area as well.
That sort of thing has happened in a lot of these type of districts in larger areas. Rainey Street in Austin has struggled with keeping the old charming houses (sort of how Cherry Street used to be) versus developers demolishing them and making high rises. It's a bizarre street with old cottages converted to bars/restaurants and high rises right next to them. Locals and historic preservationists hate how easy it is for developers to stomp out the history and fabric of what made the street so unique.
You can look around here and see the difference between what it was and what it is becoming:
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2588325,-97.7387739,3a,75y,35.9h,93.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sR7oGEd1J_8Om-GXib-CuIw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Basically lets take this really neat unique eclectic area and try to capitalize on it by destroying everything that makes it unique. So the heart of that area might be lost but developers will profit anyways just from being close to downtown Austin where they can get great rent, regardless of what happens to ol Rainey street. It is sort of free market to let them do that but a bit of a shame to lose what it was. The only thing you can do is incentivize keeping the structures for historical reasons via tax credits and/or laws preventing demolition or severe penalties.
Cherry Street already had this happen mostly when a lot of of the cottages along 15th were demolished for commercial buildings and some of the original interesting shopping strips were demolished. So IMO Cherry Street doesn't have quite as much to lose in that regard as this is already the redeveloped version.
I see the striped areas along the street where they altered the parking a few years ago and wish the city would come back and actually put in a streetscape. Everything currently outside of a few blocks is really disjointed from a pedestrian standpoint. New sidewalks, landscaped planters, street trees, etc would be a huge improvement. There also needs to be a way to slow down traffic on 15th, possibly a light at St Louis and better pedestrian crossings at Quaker, Quincy, Rockford, Trenton and Troost.
Quote from: SXSW on November 06, 2018, 12:47:34 PM
I see the striped areas along the street where they altered the parking a few years ago and wish the city would come back and actually put in a streetscape. Everything currently outside of a few blocks is really disjointed from a pedestrian standpoint. New sidewalks, landscaped planters, street trees, etc would be a huge improvement. There also needs to be a way to slow down traffic on 15th, possibly a light at St Louis and better pedestrian crossings at Quaker, Quincy, Rockford, Trenton and Troost.
We witnessed a car flip up on its side outside SMOKE a couple of years ago. Driver just wasn't paying attention, hit a parked car and flipped going at least 35-40. Damn fortunate there wasn't anyone crossing the street at the time. For being such a pedestrian district there's not much to calm the traffic along there or at least any efforts at it appear to have failed.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 06, 2018, 11:45:53 PM
We witnessed a car flip up on its side outside SMOKE a couple of years ago. Driver just wasn't paying attention, hit a parked car and flipped going at least 35-40. Damn fortunate there wasn't anyone crossing the street at the time. For being such a pedestrian district there's not much to calm the traffic along there or at least any efforts at it appear to have failed.
Like I have said before - shut it down to automobile traffic. Cover it. Redirect traffic. Do what Las Vegas did with Fremont Street!! Now, THAT was some forward thinking action - the place is so much better for it.!!
We were at Drake's one night many years ago and a motorcycle leaving the Full Moon decided to try to pass a car on the right, not seeing the truck parked by the curb. Hit it so hard the truck went up onto the sidewalk. Luckily he survived. It'd be great if there was more parking just to block off the street at night/weekends. People still like to drive to the storefront in Oklahoma though.
Noticed construction work has started at 15th & Columbia, what is going in there?
Quote from: SXSW on November 21, 2018, 01:01:55 PM
Noticed construction work has started at 15th & Columbia, what is going in there?
Bill and Ruth's subs is going in either there or a lot a block away... I lost track.
Quote from: patric on November 21, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Bill and Ruth's subs is going in either there or a lot a block away... I lost track.
Oh right because they are being kicked out at 15th & Lewis. Hopefully whatever they build faces the sidewalk like the building that used to be there. Lots of potential along 15th from the BA to Harvard but not if it's typical auto-oriented crap being built all over Tulsa. Still pissed about what is happening at 15th & Lewis..
Quote from: kingsy on November 07, 2018, 01:28:00 PM
We were at Drake's one night many years ago and a motorcycle leaving the Full Moon decided to try to pass a car on the right, not seeing the truck parked by the curb. Hit it so hard the truck went up onto the sidewalk. Luckily he survived. It'd be great if there was more parking just to block off the street at night/weekends. People still like to drive to the storefront in Oklahoma though.
Maybe 'luckily' he survived...does society really need that special kind of stupid in the gene pool -possibly breeding??
Quote from: patric on November 21, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Bill and Ruth's subs is going in either there or a lot a block away... I lost track.
They have started grading the site for the new Bill & Ruth's at 15th & Columbia. I looked on the TMAPC website and couldn't find any info on the new building though.
New urban apartments starting construction by Centennial Park (next to the Brownstones) at 7th & Owasso.
(https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/bc41bdf/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2400x1350+0+0/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fewscripps.brightspotcdn.com%2Fe5%2F9f%2F46fb5e2c47079d2540ee78edc50f%2Fbuilding-a.jpg)
https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/construction-begins-on-new-apartments-in-pearl-district-in-downtown-tulsa (https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/construction-begins-on-new-apartments-in-pearl-district-in-downtown-tulsa)
Quote from: SXSW on March 02, 2019, 04:32:07 PM
New urban apartments starting construction by Centennial Park (next to the Brownstones) at 7th & Owasso.
(https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/bc41bdf/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2400x1350+0+0/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fewscripps.brightspotcdn.com%2Fe5%2F9f%2F46fb5e2c47079d2540ee78edc50f%2Fbuilding-a.jpg)
https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/construction-begins-on-new-apartments-in-pearl-district-in-downtown-tulsa (https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/construction-begins-on-new-apartments-in-pearl-district-in-downtown-tulsa)
That's good news! This should probably be in the Pearl District thread or thread about these townhomes (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21159.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21159.0)). (Edit: I see title includes all of midtown). Thanks for posting!
Cherry Street
NW corner of 15th and Peoria has had a Long John Silvers / A&W fast food combo store for a while. They are now closed. No details in the World on what comes next. Anyone here heard rumors?
https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/a-w-long-john-silver-s-restaurant-on-peoria-avenue/article_08b64c07-536d-5cde-8d23-631b37a16479.html?fbclid=IwAR0NjEL3L_wBdJWvXu6FSKGAcxCa8k-TYmrm5GF34eSjP6-o42ZV81e2sBM
I would think this is a good thing.
Killer location right there, especially if you built a new building and added rooftop seating.
Quote from: SXSW on March 11, 2019, 09:31:50 PM
Killer location right there, especially if you built a new building and added rooftop seating.
One of the best corners in Tulsa with a friggin Mcdonalds and a Long John Silvers. Time for the fast food to go.
Quote from: swake on March 11, 2019, 11:10:44 PM
One of the best corners in Tulsa with a friggin Mcdonalds and a Long John Silvers. Time for the fast food to go.
Considering that both McDonalds and Whataburger recently renovated, I think fast food is there for a while. Hopefully this corner at least can install something good. There is plenty of parking in the lot next door for whatever type of building or venue that can be built there.
Quote from: DowntownDan on March 12, 2019, 08:19:57 AM
Considering that both McDonalds and Whataburger recently renovated, I think fast food is there for a while. Hopefully this corner at least can install something good. There is plenty of parking in the lot next door for whatever type of building or venue that can be built there.
I hope so too. That has a lot of potential to cap off Cherry Street. I was surprised that corner was sold for $1 million 11 years ago! It seems that's the normal value for commercial real estate for chains. I'm guessing LJS/A&W paid great rent and had long term lease set up. Either way, seems like an expensive decision to close it down.
With the standard chain pricing and the way people flock to them habitually, it's no wonder most chain places stay that forever. Extremely expensive to buy, and far more to demolish and make something else. It's like with the QT at 15th and Lewis... Those other buildings, cottages and potential for making that corner walkable are basically lost forever as are the 3 other corners there. 15th and Peoria really has just 1 good corner left.
Quote from: SXSW on March 11, 2019, 09:31:50 PM
Killer location right there, especially if you built a new building and added rooftop seating.
Like the building to the north that has been mostly vacant for 3 years?
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 12, 2019, 09:03:46 AM
15th and Peoria really has just 1 good corner left.
I would put the SE corner as having the potential to be better if the parking lots in front of Chimi's/Jason's Deli are redeveloped.
The old Zanmai building is an odd space and is just far enough off of 15th. This will potentially have a much better presence if they do it right.
New development planned for the 18th & Boston area located just north of 18th along the Midland Valley trail. Looks like restaurant and/or retail space. Currently a parking lot.
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/55869190_1964104877049946_2167007701744222208_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=fd0bcd3dd17abdde9e1a060fc61b2fd6&oe=5D3A36E4)
That looks pretty incredible. Is there a link or is this just floating around somewhere in concept?
Quote from: SXSW on April 02, 2019, 04:58:31 PMNew development planned for the 18th & Boston area located just north of 18th along the Midland Valley trail. Looks like restaurant and/or retail space. Currently a parking lot.
Nice!!!
Quote from: DowntownDan on April 02, 2019, 05:02:54 PM
That looks pretty incredible. Is there a link or is this just floating around somewhere in concept?
Posted on the Facebook pages for Lilly Architects and Fox+Allen.
I love this concept. Properly executed it could be one of the best new developments in years.
There is a lot of potential opportunities with the Midland Valley trail now that the Gathering Place anchors the south end, and will eventually cross the river at the new pedestrian bridge. The KATY Trail in Dallas has capitalized on this with mixed-use developments along the trail where it crosses through Uptown.
Something I've always thought about is how cool would it be if the MV trail connected to the Cincinnati flyover at Maple Park with a protected two-way bike lane along the west side of Cincinnati through downtown all the way up to OSU. That would provide a direct bike connection from downtown to the Gathering Place and river trails.
This is very interesting. There has been a lot of low profile redevelopment going on along Boston. With the recent departures of Double Shot and the Wine Bar, however, the corner of 18th & Boston needs a real boost to reach critical mass.
Quote from: DTowner on April 03, 2019, 12:10:09 PM
With the recent departures of Double Shot and the Wine Bar, however, the corner of 18th & Boston needs a real boost to reach critical mass.
Unless something has changed recently, that may be an issue with the property owner.
Quote from: DTowner on April 03, 2019, 12:10:09 PM
This is very interesting. There has been a lot of low profile redevelopment going on along Boston. With the recent departures of Double Shot and the Wine Bar, however, the corner of 18th & Boston needs a real boost to reach critical mass.
I agree, BurnCo and Dalessandro's are still good anchors but it would be good to see some other options fill those holes. Before downtown development really took off this was a pretty lively nightlife district. I would love to see the old Louisiane building get redeveloped which also could have a trail-front patio component on the south side of 18th.
The whole Riverview area is a gem because of its close proximity to downtown and the river, and surrounded on two sides by Maple Ridge. It has a more residential feel but needs the commercial area around 18th & Boston to grow before large-scale infill will occur on the nearby parking lots.
Quote from: Townsend on April 03, 2019, 12:18:25 PM
Unless something has changed recently, that may be an issue with the property owner.
I've heard these rumors. Is the owner asking too much for rent? Why is it seemingly so difficult to get tenants in their quickly?
Fantastic proposal. Really hope it becomes reality though. Seems like a lot of cool proposals have been thrown out there, but they take forever to get off the ground if they ever do. Something about this seems too nice and progressive to actually happen in Tulsa at this point, unless someone rams it through development.
Quote from: SXSW on April 03, 2019, 01:52:45 PM
I agree, BurnCo and Dalessandro's are still good anchors but it would be good to see some other options fill those holes. Before downtown development really took off this was a pretty lively nightlife district. I would love to see the old Louisiane building get redeveloped which also could have a trail-front patio component on the south side of 18th.
The whole Riverview area is a gem because of its close proximity to downtown and the river, and surrounded on two sides by Maple Ridge. It has a more residential feel but needs the commercial area around 18th & Boston to grow before large-scale infill will occur on the nearby parking lots.
The Louisiane building would be perfect for a small scale grocery store/restaurant. It's crazy to me that Reasors at 15th and Lewis is still the closest grocery store to downtown, Riverview, and Maple Ridge.
Quote from: DowntownDan on April 02, 2019, 05:02:54 PM
That looks pretty incredible. Is there a link or is this just floating around somewhere in concept?
Here is quote from the post:
QuoteWe are excited to be part of the vision for The Knoll at Maple Ridge, trailed-oriented retail located on the Midland Valley trail just north of 18th and Boston. Easily walk or bike to the Gathering Place, Maple Ridge, Cherry Street, Downtown Tulsa and more. Contact @foxallenrealty for more information.
https://www.facebook.com/lillyarchitects/?ref=page_internal (https://www.facebook.com/lillyarchitects/?ref=page_internal)
Quote from: shavethewhales on April 03, 2019, 01:56:19 PM
Fantastic proposal. Really hope it becomes reality though. Seems like a lot of cool proposals have been thrown out there, but they take forever to get off the ground if they ever do. Something about this seems too nice and progressive to actually happen in Tulsa at this point, unless someone rams it through development.
If Lily is involved, I'd guess it is more than just a concept but doesn't mean it'll be built anytime soon. I don't know how this is that much nicer than many of the other things that have been designed and built all over downtown and midtown recently. This is a pretty small development and it looks like it's only 1 or 2 story retail development. Lily has worked on many far larger and far more mixed use developments. This looks like it is intended to mimic the Lodge at the Gathering Place. How is this any nicer than that as just one example?
Have you been downtown or to Brookside or Cherry Street lately?
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on April 03, 2019, 02:43:58 PM
If Lily is involved, I'd guess it is more than just a concept but doesn't mean it'll be built anytime soon. I don't know how this is that much nicer than many of the other things that have been designed and built all over downtown and midtown recently. This is a pretty small development and it looks like it's only 1 or 2 story retail development. Lily has worked on many far larger and far more mixed use developments. This looks like it is intended to mimic the Lodge at the Gathering Place. How is this any nicer than that as just one example?
Have you been downtown or to Brookside or Cherry Street lately?
I think the reason everyone seems so excited is that the development is oriented toward the trail not the street. It suggests that there is the needed pedestrian and cyclist traffic to sustain a business. I for one am more excited about the trends this development portends than the development itself... though, I do think those grainy tiny pictures look pretty great.
Quote from: ELG4America on April 03, 2019, 02:52:19 PM
I think the reason everyone seems so excited is that the development is oriented toward the trail not the street. It suggests that there is the needed pedestrian and cyclist traffic to sustain a business. I for one am more excited about the trends this development portends than the development itself... though, I do think those grainy tiny pictures look pretty great.
Exactly. Tulsa is gradually getting more urban, and I loved the continuous momentum into a more bike and walking friendly environment around downtown/riverside, but you know there's going to be lots of bitching about parking if a half-way decent restaurant goes in one of these buildings. This is the kind of place I'd love to hang out at, but I'd still have to drive across town to get there and park somewhere in a half-mile vicinity...
We do have Cherry Street and Brookside, but they also seem to have much more parking - and people still grumble about parking there. Is Tulsa ready for something that is truly urban-oriented, ie, not designed with mostly cars in mind?
Patrick Fox/Fox+Allen is behind this as well. They completed GreenArch, proposed GreenArch II and are currently wrapping up renovations at this building at 3rd & Kenosha
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/26171585_1396068503853589_9029211268891492101_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=7af5283cfada71e51323c75789ae5d98&oe=5D4D6C8F)
I really like this^ building its a nice addition to 3rd and a great remodel of a thoroughly uninspiring structure. It has a very LA feel for some reason.
Anyone heard anything about a tenant or is it a spec build?
Quote from: DowntownDan on April 03, 2019, 01:56:02 PM
I've heard these rumors. Is the owner asking too much for rent? Why is it seemingly so difficult to get tenants in their quickly?
Upkeep issues were prevalent when I knew the past tenants.
Quote from: DowntownDan on April 03, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
The Louisiane building would be perfect for a small scale grocery store/restaurant. It's crazy to me that Reasors at 15th and Lewis is still the closest grocery store to downtown, Riverview, and Maple Ridge.
Sadly, I've heard that building is garbage and is barely standing. Too little maintenance over the years and too many remodels done cheaply cutting up too many walls.
Quote from: ELG4America on April 03, 2019, 02:52:19 PM
I think the reason everyone seems so excited is that the development is oriented toward the trail not the street. It suggests that there is the needed pedestrian and cyclist traffic to sustain a business. I for one am more excited about the trends this development portends than the development itself... though, I do think those grainy tiny pictures look pretty great.
Good point! I do like when trails become busy enough to take on their own life separate from the streets. The developer mentions that it will mimic the Gathering Place look. He wants it to feel like sort of an extension of the Gathering Place which is a great idea. I'd love to bicycle those trails and have a stop there to enjoy on a nice day like today.
Quote from: swake on April 04, 2019, 11:53:16 AM
Sadly, I've heard that building is garbage and is barely standing. Too little maintenance over the years and too many remodels done cheaply cutting up too many walls.
I've heard that too, but we were also told that the Palace Building had such extensive "earthquake damage" that the TW had no choice but to raze it, and now it's a very nice apartment building. I'm sure there are complications with that building, and I'm sure the costs are higher than normal to renovate, but there's a way. I just wish I had the money and the ability to make it work.
It's time to take a "big picture" step and make some grand scheme efforts.
Close streets to vehicle traffic in the Guthrie Green area - not just one! Several. Fremont St in Las Vegas style. With covers/overhangs and everything.
Make parking/shuttles part of the design instead of just a very bad afterthought...
Canals - like every other creative city has (would that make it too cliche'...?). Do it right - meaning better than OKC attempt. I truly cannot believe we have not heard more about this from people who think OKC is the unicorn of city design...we want to copy them on everything else, why not this??
Quote from: DowntownDan on April 05, 2019, 10:36:35 AM
I've heard that too, but we were also told that the Palace Building had such extensive "earthquake damage" that the TW had no choice but to raze it, and now it's a very nice apartment building. I'm sure there are complications with that building, and I'm sure the costs are higher than normal to renovate, but there's a way. I just wish I had the money and the ability to make it work.
That was so laughable, that the earthquake totaled that building. Talk about getting caught red handed in an insurance/tax write-off scam! But I'm sure they got their huge write-off/payout anyways.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on April 05, 2019, 10:50:30 AM
Canals - like every other creative city has (would that make it too cliche'...?). Do it right - meaning better than OKC attempt. I truly cannot believe we have not heard more about this from people who think OKC is the unicorn of city design...we want to copy them on everything else, why not this??
One has been proposed for over a decade along 6th St in the Pearl District.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on April 05, 2019, 10:50:30 AM
It's time to take a "big picture" step and make some grand scheme efforts.
Close streets to vehicle traffic in the Guthrie Green area - not just one! Several. Fremont St in Las Vegas style. With covers/overhangs and everything.
Make parking/shuttles part of the design instead of just a very bad afterthought...
Canals - like every other creative city has (would that make it too cliche'...?). Do it right - meaning better than OKC attempt. I truly cannot believe we have not heard more about this from people who think OKC is the unicorn of city design...we want to copy them on everything else, why not this??
Who on earth has been saying that OKC is something to copy? I usually look at them as examples of how NOT to do things. Most of what they have done is terrible, urban design wise.
Quote from: TheArtist on April 05, 2019, 03:54:55 PM
Who on earth has been saying that OKC is something to copy? I usually look at them as examples of how NOT to do things. Most of what they have done is terrible, urban design wise.
Ironically, MidTown will be the best area in town, largely because it has been left alone.
Quote from: TheArtist on April 05, 2019, 03:54:55 PM
Who on earth has been saying that OKC is something to copy? I usually look at them as examples of how NOT to do things. Most of what they have done is terrible, urban design wise.
Not me!! Ever!!
Exactly - they are the example of how not to. And their canal is certainly nothing that we want to do...make it like so many cities in Europe. There are a lot of good examples there that we can put our twist on and make it great for Tulsa.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on April 14, 2019, 12:11:26 PM
Not me!! Ever!!
Exactly - they are the example of how not to. And their canal is certainly nothing that we want to do...make it like so many cities in Europe. There are a lot of good examples there that we can put our twist on and make it great for Tulsa.
I agree. Their canal is like the themepark version of San Antonio's canal, which is already the Vegas version of European canals.
It is basically a suburbanite family fun park, with no real walkability, much less actual functional layout that could serve a real community. It's purpose is to bring in bachelor parties and folks having a night out. It does that well, but we need to dream a little bigger to address urban sprawl while also creating an interesting urban destination. Even if I lived in apartments above Bricktown, I'd rarely if ever go to the kitcsh chains around there. I'd take their MidTown over that.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on April 15, 2019, 03:07:36 PM
I agree. Their canal is like the themepark version of San Antonio's canal, which is already the Vegas version of European canals.
It is basically a suburbanite family fun park, with no real walkability, much less actual functional layout that could serve a real community. It's purpose is to bring in bachelor parties and folks having a night out. It does that well, but we need to dream a little bigger to address urban sprawl while also creating an interesting urban destination. Even if I lived in apartments above Bricktown, I'd rarely if ever go to the kitcsh chains around there. I'd take their MidTown over that.
The times we have gone there, it was something we really wanted to like - love the idea of a canal - but it just wasn't all that great. Even Chicago's river with it's lower level is more interesting...even if a lot more dangerous!
Side clarification moment;
I think my comment could have been taken way wrong - went back to read it and it sounded like I was saying OKC canals were like European - and that is directly opposite of what I meant!! There are very good examples there to learn from and put our own interpretation onto. There are sections of the Erie Canal that are very cool and would be good example, too!
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on April 15, 2019, 03:07:36 PM
I agree. Their canal is like the themepark version of San Antonio's canal, which is already the Vegas version of European canals.
It is basically a suburbanite family fun park, with no real walkability, much less actual functional layout that could serve a real community. It's purpose is to bring in bachelor parties and folks having a night out. It does that well, but we need to dream a little bigger to address urban sprawl while also creating an interesting urban destination. Even if I lived in apartments above Bricktown, I'd rarely if ever go to the kitcsh chains around there. I'd take their MidTown over that.
OKC is the poster-child of sprawl.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 16, 2019, 12:09:18 PM
OKC is the poster-child of sprawl.
It is larger than Houston in area, but 1/4 (or less) of its population.
Quote from: rebound on April 16, 2019, 01:33:50 PM
It is larger than Houston in area, but 1/4 (or less) of its population.
Being I lived in Houston for about 4 years, this is true. Dense and a lot of sprawl.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 16, 2019, 12:09:18 PM
OKC is the poster-child of sprawl.
NE city limit is at mile 147 on the turnpike. Past Luther. Almost to Wellston...few miles away.
What an ignorant thing to do...they should pull that nonsense back and let the towns out there develop. Wellston area is growing very fast - could be another Bixby. Or Glenpool.
Quote from: DowntownDan on April 03, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
The Louisiane building would be perfect for a small scale grocery store/restaurant.
The 10 Tulsa restaurants Scott Cherry misses the most
https://www.tulsaworld.com/entertainment/dining/scott-cherry-s-tulsa-restaurants-he-misses-the-most/collection_19447fe5-718b-5948-b0cc-c4403ab35ed8.html
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/86/686570c6-b384-5b78-b0d6-232324beecc2/5d2f1c6c7cb6e.image.jpg?resize=500%2C800)
Rendering of 1515 Lofts on Cherry Street next to the new Bruce G Weber at 15th & St Louis
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/022046773943/media/124699819469/medium/1565317131/enhance)
uhhh, I hope those finishes aren't final. I don't mind developing mid-rises on Cherry street, but this is way out of character and just plain ugly. It's like the whole thing is modeled after an auto dealership.
Quote from: shavethewhales on August 09, 2019, 08:31:59 AM
uhhh, I hope those finishes aren't final. I don't mind developing mid-rises on Cherry street, but this is way out of character and just plain ugly. It's like the whole thing is modeled after an auto dealership.
Looks in line with the recent condo additions behind this development.
Quote from: patric on July 18, 2019, 12:58:20 PM
The 10 Tulsa restaurants Scott Cherry misses the most
https://www.tulsaworld.com/entertainment/dining/scott-cherry-s-tulsa-restaurants-he-misses-the-most/collection_19447fe5-718b-5948-b0cc-c4403ab35ed8.html
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/86/686570c6-b384-5b78-b0d6-232324beecc2/5d2f1c6c7cb6e.image.jpg?resize=500%2C800)
Where was the Golden Drumstick/Middle Path Cafe?
Quote from: Conan71 on August 15, 2019, 12:18:19 PM
Where was the Golden Drumstick/Middle Path Cafe?
11th and Yale I'm told
(https://i.imgur.com/TSrbxR7.jpg?1)
Took a quick picture of the progress on the new lofts on Cherry street. Still got a ways to go :P
The gas station / tire repair / vacant-for-a-decade eyesore at 15th & Yale (next to the SWAT shop) was bulldozed at last.
Please tell me it wont be another dollar (or five-dollar) store.
https://goo.gl/maps/eefBH6aZyk916CY37
Probably CVS. Every Walgreens needs a CVS nearby. It's the law.
That corner needs a high quality T-Mobile and California Nails store.
that area's a CBD desert
A New Pizza Place is coming to 17th and Utica (Still part of "Cherry Street" boundary when you google that).
https://www.tulsaworld.com/lifestyles/photo/gallery-the-food-and-the-decor-check-out-the-new/collection_865d8a54-81dd-5ac5-a7b6-824c0810d979.html#13 (https://www.tulsaworld.com/lifestyles/photo/gallery-the-food-and-the-decor-check-out-the-new/collection_865d8a54-81dd-5ac5-a7b6-824c0810d979.html#13)
Just in case you were thinking: what is the one thing we don't have enough of around Cherry Street? "I know! A pizza place!"
It looks really good. In a bit of a weird spot, just off Utica, almost out of sight for 90% of people driving by. Hopefully they intend to do mostly delivery and pickup rather than depend on people dropping in.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 12, 2019, 11:58:43 AM
A New Pizza Place is coming to 17th and Utica (Still part of "Cherry Street" boundary when you google that).
https://www.tulsaworld.com/lifestyles/photo/gallery-the-food-and-the-decor-check-out-the-new/collection_865d8a54-81dd-5ac5-a7b6-824c0810d979.html#13 (https://www.tulsaworld.com/lifestyles/photo/gallery-the-food-and-the-decor-check-out-the-new/collection_865d8a54-81dd-5ac5-a7b6-824c0810d979.html#13)
Just in case you were thinking: what is the one thing we don't have enough of around Cherry Street? "I know! A pizza place!"
It looks really good. In a bit of a weird spot, just off Utica, almost out of sight for 90% of people driving by. Hopefully they intend to do mostly delivery and pickup rather than depend on people dropping in.
"Genetic flaw". Love it!
That's probably why I found myself in the brewpub business. Anyone in their right mind doesn't get into the restaurant business ;D
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 12, 2019, 11:58:43 AM
A New Pizza Place is coming to 17th and Utica
Coming or opened in Oct?
That's a super tough spot.
Quote from: BKDotCom on December 12, 2019, 08:16:52 PM
Coming or opened in Oct?
That's a super tough spot.
It says it's opened now on google/yelp.
Quote from: Conan71 on December 12, 2019, 02:23:40 PM
"Genetic flaw". Love it!
That's probably why I found myself in the brewpub business. Anyone in their right mind doesn't get into the restaurant business ;D
haha! I'm just joking but also befuddled as an outside observer. I see all the types of food the area is lacking and can't believe another pizza place is going in! @e need an Indian place near downtown/midtown. Why can't any of these entrepreneurs get into that? Or there's a demand for casual cajun food after 5pm in downtown/midtown (not sit down/fancy like NOLA's, Peacemaker or Docs). Like LaSalles but open after lunchtime. Guaranteed business in a near monopoly for anyone who does that.
Another one: A "Fair Food" restaurant: Corndogs, funnel cakes, turkey legs, fried stuff... How hasn't anyone come up with something like that? It could be a small kiosk or food truck. Maybe it's because no one wants to pay $5-$10 outside of a ticketed enclosure miles to the next restaurant. Sonic is pretty close also. Just about as sickening to eat.
We need more indian food places so badly in this metro. Crazy how underrepresented it is. You go to most other major metros and it's a common staple. We have three indian restaurants that I am familiar with, and only one is reasonably easy for me to get to. None are located near DT.
Quote from: shavethewhales on December 13, 2019, 04:53:21 PM
We need more indian food places so badly in this metro. Crazy how underrepresented it is. You go to most other major metros and it's a common staple. We have three indian restaurants that I am familiar with, and only one is reasonably easy for me to get to. None are located near DT.
And the most popular is Pakistani.
We tried to eat at Smoke when we were in town for our Thanksgiving visit but wait would have been too long so we walked down to Prossimo and had an amazing meal. Great new addition to Cherry St.!
Quote from: shavethewhales on December 13, 2019, 04:53:21 PM
We need more indian food places so badly in this metro. Crazy how underrepresented it is. You go to most other major metros and it's a common staple. We have three indian restaurants that I am familiar with, and only one is reasonably easy for me to get to. None are located near DT.
Take the bus to BA. Tandoori Guys.
Took some pictures of the former Corner Cafe on my way home from work today. It looks great, IMO.
Managed to get the new Aero bus in this pic.
(https://lfoxea.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mMMT7y5rKPvXF0mwp4WhT6ULYLv7TE6mm_zq_zZAcikgDjMlNCv2EKmrPxkyQ43jPFYjut7EL45VW51ztCYVqvNLbkKs2madH2Rc0wY8wWhyKSj5G7yVUvC4DWPbZ5WoF_OFrp_seut7LRBrTrGdUg6omPf3eMauHPipUCBARVQZr4Kb26q8qvgyrkPwLLSe4G9QafjYh-J22PHn6ZSvG7w?width=1024&height=632&cropmode=none)
(https://lvoxea.dm.files.1drv.com/y4moNypnp0QhrPDHyFIDDdWIhiEjfn39ySnJ_RrS6nyHqYTtGUPo613zUA_omuEI1j0zv_OAsZYZrm0dJaeHqKGThrmGnVa6fV-cEiMlpQLa6IVtAQYY9mGEyiNQ7JQJ8oDBrYGF33iexJ_Y3KwJVVq7g2x5KBEZnyZ2-W8kLXa3AVVc183b--Raye0M-w7UXH85XPII88lbh4IgEMc89Bjkg?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
That corner will be the epicenter of transit when the 11th St. BRT is installed. I think it would be neat if the abandoned auto shop accross the street was bought by the city and made a sort of transit hub (not a park and ride obviously, not enough room, but something).
Quote from: DowntownDan on December 24, 2019, 11:50:39 AM
That corner will be the epicenter of transit when the 11th St. BRT is installed. I think it would be neat if the abandoned auto shop accross the street was bought by the city and made a sort of transit hub (not a park and ride obviously, not enough room, but something).
Funny story:
https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R12025930604700&return=close
I don't know what the City has planned, but they bought it from Videon last October.
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on December 23, 2019, 05:54:34 PM
Took some pictures of the former Corner Cafe on my way home from work today. It looks great, IMO.
Agree, it is a huge improvement at that corner. The 11th St/Rt 66 corridor really needs a streetscape project. TREES, lighting, sidewalks, etc. Hopefully the city turns their attention to this area once the Cherry Street streetscape project is finished.
11th street is due to get a rehab with bike lanes and on street parking starting in January I believe. I wish I could find what its supposed to look like. Would indeed be nice if the sidewalks were also redone with lights, trees, burying the lines, etc.
Am having a hard time with the neon signage I want to put up on the new building we are working on over by Buck Atoms. The signage has to be 12' above the sidewalk and at least 15 feet from the lines, and when your building is right up to the sidewalk and there are a bunch of electric lines also over the sidewalk... bit tricky. But I guess having the lines there on 11th does give the area an old retro feel you don't see in many cities. (many first world cities) Though we are used to them here and don't even notice them, outsiders do notice and mention it.
Quote from: Tulsan on December 24, 2019, 12:48:35 PM
Funny story:
https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R12025930604700&return=close
I don't know what the City has planned, but they bought it from Videon last October.
Haha, I should get paid for my ideas, lol. I hope it is something interesting for sure.
As for streetscaping, I asked the engineer at the Cherry Street rehab meeting about burying the power lines, and it always comes down to cost. He said he would love to do it, but the money just isn't there. My thought was that they are tearing the crap out of the street anyway, and it's one of the busiest pedestrian districts in town, but there was just no appetite for it, he said. If it can't get done there, it's not happening anywhere. Drives me crazy that something so obvious can't get done.
Street rehabilitation work to begin on Cherry Street on Monday
"Phase one of the $5.7 million Improve Our Tulsa project began in the summer with road work along the eastbound lane of 15th Street from Utica Avenue to Lewis Avenue. Later this month, the eastbound lanes will be reopened so work can begin on the westbound lanes.
The work is expected to be completed by late summer, according to the city."
"In addition to installing a new 6-inch water main, the city plans to improve the storm water drainage system, repair sidewalks and build intersection bump-outs with curbs and gutters.
Plans also call for restriping the crosswalks at every collector street between Utica and Peoria avenues. Each crossing will come with two flashing beacons.
The improvements also include back-in angle parking on the north side of 15th Street and parallel parking on the south side of the street between Quaker and Trenton avenues."
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/street-rehabilitation-work-to-begin-on-cherry-street-on-monday/article_141e5dcb-584b-5f5c-972a-e55a74add453.html
Very glad that Cherry Street is getting some improved pedestrian infrastructure. Trying to walk is a nightmare currently, hopefully these will improve the experience.
^ I wonder if this rehabilitation will include/allow for some street trees? I think some trees would really improve this stretch of road. Something like Dickson Street in Fayetteville (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0664005,-94.1636693,3a,75y,80.55h,93.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sMsn-V6yjVlwHd8L3NaSIEQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DMsn-V6yjVlwHd8L3NaSIEQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D31.164202%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) would be nice.
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on January 03, 2020, 01:50:49 PM
^ I wonder if this rehabilitation will include/allow for some street trees? I think some trees would really improve this stretch of road. Something like Dickson Street in Fayetteville (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0664005,-94.1636693,3a,75y,80.55h,93.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sMsn-V6yjVlwHd8L3NaSIEQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DMsn-V6yjVlwHd8L3NaSIEQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D31.164202%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) would be nice.
^^I probably spent a little too much time hanging around Dickson in school. Great example though!
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on January 03, 2020, 01:50:49 PM
^ I wonder if this rehabilitation will include/allow for some street trees? I think some trees would really improve this stretch of road. Something like Dickson Street in Fayetteville (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0664005,-94.1636693,3a,75y,80.55h,93.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sMsn-V6yjVlwHd8L3NaSIEQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DMsn-V6yjVlwHd8L3NaSIEQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D31.164202%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) would be nice.
I hope so! Trees are desperately needed along 15th. The east-west orientation means this corridor gets blasted by the hot sun during the summer and shade would be very welcome (even if it takes a few years for the trees to grow!).
The subway building on Cherry Street has a fence around it. The east side of the building caught fire a few weeks ago but the Subway seemed to have been spared. Did they get some insurance money to tear down and rebuild the whole thing? I recall from the street repaving meetings that the Subway building owner was being uncooperative in trying to make the parking and streetscaping more pedestrian friendly.
Quote from: DowntownDan on March 02, 2020, 02:26:43 PM
The subway building on Cherry Street has a fence around it. The east side of the building caught fire a few weeks ago but the Subway seemed to have been spared. Did they get some insurance money to tear down and rebuild the whole thing? I recall from the street repaving meetings that the Subway building owner was being uncooperative in trying to make the parking and streetscaping more pedestrian friendly.
I noticed that fence the other day and meant to ask on here, but forgot. I wish they would tear down this building and the strip center where Lucky's used to be and replace them with mixed use multi-story buildings. Pipe dream I am sure, but it would go a long way in helping Cherry Street look and feel more urban. Not to mention help out with pedestrian friendliness.
There are no building permits, but there are nuisance inspections visible on the city website. Most likely the city is requiring the property owner (who owns other Subways as well) to properly secure the property with a fence while he figures out how to repair/replace.
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on March 02, 2020, 05:08:08 PM
I noticed that fence the other day and meant to ask on here, but forgot. I wish they would tear down this building and the strip center where Lucky's used to be and replace them with mixed use multi-story buildings. Pipe dream I am sure, but it would go a long way in helping Cherry Street look and feel more urban. Not to mention help out with pedestrian friendliness.
Those are two of the biggest remaining gaps along with the biggest of all, the parking lot at Lincoln Plaza. That would be an amazing spot for mixed-use retail with office or residential above with the skyline views at that spot.
The scuttlebutt when I spent years working at CHoCS was that the owner of the former Hideaway/sometimes subway/ sometimes bonfire wants some crazy amount of money for the property.
That said, I think the thing that Cherry Street is missing is a small hotel. Either the current parking lot of the Lincoln School on the corner, or the subway or the Former Lucky's site would all be great choices. A pipe dream, I know, but one I've thought about for years now.
Edit: I Think the A&W site would be another great spot for a mixed use multi-story project.
Quote from: Jacobei on March 03, 2020, 07:11:18 AM
The scuttlebutt when I spent years working at CHoCS was that the owner of the former Hideaway/sometimes subway/ sometimes bonfire wants some crazy amount of money for the property.
That said, I think the thing that Cherry Street is missing is a small hotel. Either the current parking lot of the Lincoln School on the corner, or the subway or the Former Lucky's site would all be great choices. A pipe dream, I know, but one I've thought about for years now.
Edit: I Think the A&W site would be another great spot for a mixed use multi-story project.
There a numerous airbnb rentals near Cherry Street. We've used them for visiting friends and family several times. I'm not sure the demand would be consistent enough for a hotel.
Quote from: rebound on March 03, 2020, 09:29:09 AM
There a numerous airbnb rentals near Cherry Street. We've used them for visiting friends and family several times. I'm not sure the demand would be consistent enough for a hotel.
I don't know about Cherry Street proper but Midtown, specifically Utica Square, needs a hotel. I'm surprised there isn't one by Hillcrest either. There is The Campbell near TU.
The Maple is a 7 story, 109 room boutique hotel proposed by Coury Hospitality at 21st & Boston which could somewhat fill that void and also would be the closest hotel to the Gathering Place. Not sure its current status though.
https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/ (https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/)
Quote from: SXSW on March 03, 2020, 10:58:38 AM
I don't know about Cherry Street proper but Midtown, specifically Utica Square, needs a hotel. I'm surprised there isn't one by Hillcrest either. There is The Campbell near TU.
The Maple is a 7 story, 109 room boutique hotel proposed by Coury Hospitality at 21st & Boston which could somewhat fill that void and also would be the closest hotel to the Gathering Place. Not sure its current status though.
https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/ (https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/)
Even though it might've changed concepts, the plans from Coury go all the way back to 2001. Plans have popped up for that a number of times over the years on this board; like here: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=11576.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=11576.0) all the way back in 2008 saying it was shelved, and then again more recently here: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=4167.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=4167.0). I doubt it is happening anytime soon.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 03, 2020, 12:27:44 PM
Even though it might've changed concepts, the plans from Coury go all the way back to 2001. Plans have popped up for that a number of times over the years on this board; like here: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=11576.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=11576.0) all the way back in 2008 saying it was shelved, and then again more recently here: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=4167.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=4167.0). I doubt it is happening anytime soon.
I'm aware of the history of this site. Portofino Tower would've been a nice addition. A hotel here, especially a nice-looking 7 story boutique hotel with a rooftop bar, seems like a good plan and Coury does own the property. But he has owned it since they tore down the Akdar Shrine and it's still an empty lot so obviously not super motivated. Coury also developed the Tudor townhomes on 22nd St behind this site.
With the Ambassador at 13th & Main, I don't really see why Cherry St. needs or could support a separate hotel. I can potentially see the need near Utica Sq./St. John/Hillcrest. Even then, I would rather see something more like the Mayo Hotel that is 1/2 hotel and 1/2 apartments or condos. More boutique hotels near downtown just eat into the demand we need to support another large convention size hotel downtown.
There are hotels underneath an exit ramp at 169 and 91st. Why people would rather stay there than Cherry Street or Utica Square is beyond me.
Quote from: DowntownDan on March 03, 2020, 04:31:04 PM
There are hotels underneath an exit ramp at 169 and 91st. Why people would rather stay there than Cherry Street or Utica Square is beyond me.
Those are there for the hospitals in the area.
Quote from: DTowner on March 03, 2020, 03:52:37 PM
With the Ambassador at 13th & Main, I don't really see why Cherry St. needs or could support a separate hotel. I can potentially see the need near Utica Sq./St. John/Hillcrest. Even then, I would rather see something more like the Mayo Hotel that is 1/2 hotel and 1/2 apartments or condos. More boutique hotels near downtown just eat into the demand we need to support another large convention size hotel downtown.
You'd rather have one huge corporation getting revenue from a 1,000 room hotel rather than several smaller (maybe boutique) hotels focused in the core urban districts? 13th and Main wouldn't replicate the experience of staying on Cherry Street. It's not an especially lively spot. Utica Square could for sure use a medium hotel with rooms serving the shopping center and the hospitals.
I don't see Tulsa ever being a huge convention place and don't think it is smart to try to be that when dozens of larger cities already have that taken care of. It is wasteful long term for the country for every city to aim for such things. Sort of like winning the Olympics bids, the hoops Tulsa would have to go through to host some of the big conventions is not guaranteed to pay off. Tulsa should aim for mid sized, quaint and different sort of place. Embrace being a peculiar, slower paced town with some big amenities. It'll never be Denver/ATL/Dallas or even remotely close. Those places will beat Tulsa for big conventions every time and it'll probably get tougher over time, even if Tulsa somehow got a 1000 room hotel in DT.
What does Tulsa have? Low traffic, accessible places and a bunch of quaint old neighborhoods and mini main streets that weren't devastated by "progress". Boutique hotels in Cherry Street, Brookside and Utica Square would add a needed element to those areas.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 04, 2020, 11:49:37 AM
You'd rather have one huge corporation getting revenue from a 1,000 room hotel rather than several smaller (maybe boutique) hotels focused in the core urban districts? 13th and Main wouldn't replicate the experience of staying on Cherry Street. It's not an especially lively spot. Utica Square could for sure use a medium hotel with rooms serving the shopping center and the hospitals.
I don't see Tulsa ever being a huge convention place and don't think it is smart to try to be that when dozens of larger cities already have that taken care of. It is wasteful long term for the country for every city to aim for such things. Sort of like winning the Olympics bids, the hoops Tulsa would have to go through to host some of the big conventions is not guaranteed to pay off. Tulsa should aim for mid sized, quaint and different sort of place.
Short answer - yes. Tulsa will never compete with Las Vegas or major cities for the top tier convention business, be we currently woefully underperform our competitor cities in convention business. One of the main reasons we miss out is the lack of another large convention sized hotel downtown (the Hyatt and Double Tree no longer fit the needs of many modern conventions). Convention planners do not want guests spread out over 10 boutique hotels, they want them all under one roof. Boutique hotels may serve visitors to Tulsa, but they don't draw visitors to Tulsa. Conventions do. We are currently spending a lot of Vision money on the convention center, we need to see that our investment pays off.
I agreed that a hotel in the Utica Sq. area would be a great addition. Even then, however, I think the need is limited as I just don't see a huge demand for people wanting to set up in a hotel next to Utica Sq. - especially as it continues to lose its uniqueness. The hospitals also likely create some demand, although whatever demand there is currently is getting met by some other means.
As for a boutique hotel on Cherry St., there is already a supply of Airbnbs in the area that serves the visitors who want to stay right in that area. I would much rather see the limited remaining space available on Cherry St. be used for expanded office and retail.
Quote from: DTowner on March 04, 2020, 12:14:32 PM
Short answer - yes. Tulsa will never compete with Las Vegas or major cities for the top tier convention business, be we currently woefully underperform our competitor cities in convention business. One of the main reasons we miss out is the lack of another large convention sized hotel downtown (the Hyatt and Double Tree no longer fit the needs of many modern conventions). Convention planners do not want guests spread out over 10 boutique hotels, they want them all under one roof. Boutique hotels may serve visitors to Tulsa, but they don't draw visitors to Tulsa. Conventions do. We are currently spending a lot of Vision money on the convention center, we need to see that our investment pays off.
I agreed that a hotel in the Utica Sq. area would be a great addition. Even then, however, I think the need is limited as I just don't see a huge demand for people wanting to set up in a hotel next to Utica Sq. - especially as it continues to lose its uniqueness. The hospitals also likely create some demand, although whatever demand there is currently is getting met by some other means.
As for a boutique hotel on Cherry St., there is already a supply of Airbnbs in the area that serves the visitors who want to stay right in that area. I would much rather see the limited remaining space available on Cherry St. be used for expanded office and retail.
There is a large convention hotel that is part of the Arena District Master Plan, so it's on the radar of city leaders. I personally think the Page Belcher site is the best spot for this but that site may not be available for awhile.
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/cc/dccc99b4-9ce2-5478-a45f-e874bd3b63fa/5baaa6e4eff11.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C729)
Quote from: SXSW on March 04, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
There is a large convention hotel that is part of the Arena District Master Plan, so it's on the radar of city leaders. I personally think the Page Belcher site is the best spot for this but that site may not be available for awhile.
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/cc/dccc99b4-9ce2-5478-a45f-e874bd3b63fa/5baaa6e4eff11.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C729)
My expectation is that the Arena Master Plan will collect more dust on a shelf than dirt is ever turned under its guidance.
Some updated pictures from the 1515 lofts on Cherry St. They really change the dynamic of the area... but I think it's going to work well. It appears that it's topped out.
(https://i.imgur.com/1yU5sDm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2hDn3w8.jpg)
Agree, I think it's a positive but still taking some getting used to. Similar to the condos on Main downtown. I still think the best place for multi-level density on Cherry Street is along 15th at Lincoln Plaza.
Quote from: SXSW on March 04, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
There is a large convention hotel that is part of the Arena District Master Plan, so it's on the radar of city leaders. I personally think the Page Belcher site is the best spot for this but that site may not be available for awhile.
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/cc/dccc99b4-9ce2-5478-a45f-e874bd3b63fa/5baaa6e4eff11.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C729)
Tulsa definitely could use an anchor convention center hotel with nothing less than 500 rooms. The competition will become tough for Tulsa to compete with neighboring OKC just 91 miles down the turnpike where a 605 room, $241 million Omni is under construction to anchor the new $288 million OKC convention center with a garage and an adjoining $132 million Scissortail downtown park.
You have a 500 room downtown Hyatt Regency close to your convention center that would be ideal for spillover conventions to support a new downtown convention center hotel; get Hyatt to build that hotel--think of the advantages it would give Tulsa to compete with Oklahoma City.
A 500 to 600 room reputable band hotel next to the Tulsa convention center will provide enough rooms to compete for Tier II & III type conventions. Oklahoma City had to subsidize their new Omni with
$85.5 million and build an adjacent
$25 million 1,100 space convention center garage to support the convention center. The OKC Cox Convention Center will continue to be used as a support back up because it has 978 covered parking underneath the (Old Myriad) current Cox Convention Center in OKC and a 14,000-seat arena inside the Cox Center as well as an 18,203-seat NBA venue. OKC is exploring the bidding process for the Republican Party National Convention:
QuoteMIKE: We have been approached by the RNC to consider bidding to host their annual convention. And we'll probably look at it for 2024 or 2028. But political conventions are not nearly as attractive for cities as they used to be.
Republican National Convention asks Oklahoma City to bid on hosting future event: https://oklahoman.com/article/5655601/republican-national-convention-asks-oklahoma-city-to-bid-on-hosting-future-event (https://oklahoman.com/article/5655601/republican-national-convention-asks-oklahoma-city-to-bid-on-hosting-future-event)
Tulsa could definitely use a new anchor hotel to support your Convention Center District. You want a large enough anchor hotel since you already have enough reputable downtown hotels to support the spillover for major conventions.
The more Tulsa & Oklahoma City compete against each other, the better each city strives to become.
Quote from: Laramie on April 13, 2020, 02:04:43 PM
Tulsa definitely could use an anchor convention center hotel with nothing less than 500 rooms. The competition will become tough for Tulsa to compete with neighboring OKC just 91 miles down the turnpike where a 605 room, $241 million Omni is under construction to anchor the new $288 million OKC convention center with a garage and an adjoining $132 million Scissortail downtown park.
You have a 500 room downtown Hyatt Regency close to your convention center that would be ideal for spillover conventions to support a new downtown convention center hotel; get Hyatt to build that hotel--think of the advantages it would give Tulsa to compete with Oklahoma City.
A 500 to 600 room reputable band hotel next to the Tulsa convention center will provide enough rooms to compete for Tier II & III type conventions. Oklahoma City had to subsidize their new Omni with $85.5 million and build an adjacent $25 million 1,100 space convention center garage to support the convention center. The OKC Cox Convention Center will continue to be used as a support back up because it has 978 covered parking underneath the (Old Myriad) current Cox Convention Center in OKC and a 14,000-seat arena inside the Cox Center as well as an 18,203-seat NBA venue. OKC is exploring the bidding process for the Republican Party National Convention:
Republican National Convention asks Oklahoma City to bid on hosting future event: https://oklahoman.com/article/5655601/republican-national-convention-asks-oklahoma-city-to-bid-on-hosting-future-event (https://oklahoman.com/article/5655601/republican-national-convention-asks-oklahoma-city-to-bid-on-hosting-future-event)
Tulsa could definitely use a new anchor hotel to support your Convention Center District. You want a large enough anchor hotel since you already have enough reputable downtown hotels to support the spillover for major conventions.
The more Tulsa & Oklahoma City compete against each other, the better each city strives to become.
I think a better tack would be to really focus on tourism for Tulsa. Building that aspect up first, then go for the big hotel. If you did the tourism part right, a private entity would build a big hotel to cater to the tourism aspect and the conventions. This is of course assuming that Tourism and Conventions are a thing after all this.
Quote from: TheArtist on April 13, 2020, 08:12:23 PM
I think a better tack would be to really focus on tourism for Tulsa. Building that aspect up first, then go for the big hotel. If you did the tourism part right, a private entity would build a big hotel to cater to the tourism aspect and the conventions. This is of course assuming that Tourism and Conventions are a thing after all this.
Tourism should be fine in the medium term. After 9/11 it took years for conventions to come back, this will be worse.
And Tulsa does have 700+ rooms at the convention center right now, including a convention hotel with 450 rooms, the Double Tree. I don't see more than that needed for a bunch of years after Covid.
Quote from: SXSW on April 12, 2020, 08:39:40 PM
Agree, I think it's a positive but still taking some getting used to. Similar to the condos on Main downtown. I still think the best place for multi-level density on Cherry Street is along 15th at Lincoln Plaza.
The AW/Long Johns Silver site would make for a nice mid-rise residential spot.
Quote from: DowntownDan on April 15, 2020, 10:08:06 AM
The AW/Long Johns Silver site would make for a nice mid-rise residential spot.
Agree, the 15th & Peoria intersection leaves a lot to be desired in its current form. Hopefully that is a focus for future development as Cherry Street continues to grow. You're only 3 stops on the Aero from the center of downtown.
This is still up as "Coming Soon" on Coury Hospitality's website but if you go by the site on 21st there is still a for sale sign and the seller is...Coury. This lot, the Bumgarner site at 14th & Utica and the weed-strewn lot at 15th & Delaware are the worst empty lots in midtown IMO 🤨
https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/ (https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/)
Quote from: SXSW on June 06, 2020, 11:19:16 PM
This is still up as "Coming Soon" on Coury Hospitality's website but if you go by the site on 21st there is still a for sale sign and the seller is...Coury. This lot, the Bumgarner site at 14th & Utica and the weed-strewn lot at 15th & Delaware are the worst empty lots in midtown IMO 🤨
https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/ (https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/)
I would think the Coury lot has a ton of value now that the Gathering Place is open and considering the pending river improvements. Same goes for some of the lots going up Boston Ave.
Quote from: SXSW on June 06, 2020, 11:19:16 PM
This is still up as "Coming Soon" on Coury Hospitality's website but if you go by the site on 21st there is still a for sale sign and the seller is...Coury. This lot, the Bumgarner site at 14th & Utica and the weed-strewn lot at 15th & Delaware are the worst empty lots in midtown IMO 🤨
https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/ (https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/)
I agree. Those 3 lot owners are waiting for a big pay day, or maybe for a market so hot there's no choice but to build something. I'm guessing they want a life changing amount for those. Investors have plenty of lower hangin fruit to get first, thus we have eye sore lots for decades.
There's no excuse for the 15th and Delaware eye sore. It had revenue-producing buildings, full of tenants and yet they made the foolish decision to destroy all of that. That has probably cost them several million by now in upfront costs plus lost rent. ~6 shops plus rental upstairs in one building, ~20,000 square feet of rentable space total, all completely demolished for nothing, which should rent for somewhere close to ~$10-$20k/mo, $120-200k/year.
They (the same who own Ok Pain Clinic across street) had no business doing that. The only consolation is that at least that rental income is going to other property owners and not them, but the buildings are irreplaceable and damage to the neighborhood a permanent scar.
He threw away literally millions and gave us another eye sore to go along with the one north of the clinic. No wonder that guy's wife left him not too long after that!
Quote from: AdamsHall on June 08, 2020, 09:16:00 AM
I would think the Coury lot has a ton of value now that the Gathering Place is open and considering the pending river improvements. Same goes for some of the lots going up Boston Ave.
I know Coury Hospitality has moved into several other markets recently so maybe they don't have the capacity to commit to this site, or they are using the increase in value to finally sell it. Meanwhile all but one of the Tudor townhomes (also developed by Coury) have been built behind this lot. The Maple would be a great addition though so I hope it happens.
If someone else could get their hands on 15th & Delaware and actually build a quality mixed-use project that stretch of 15th could be more of a walkable commercial district. You have nice neighborhoods in Florence Park to the south and Renaissance to the north and some decent building stock left, but also some big eyesores. It reminds me a lot of the Plaza District in OKC before it was revitalized in the past 5 years.
Just up Boulder from 21st street, the River Park Lofts building (1840 S Boulder Ave) is being gutted. Interesting structure to try to save. Any ideas on what is planned there?
Quote from: AdamsHall on June 11, 2020, 11:31:40 AM
Just up Boulder from 21st street, the River Park Lofts building (1840 S Boulder Ave) is being gutted. Interesting structure to try to save. Any ideas on what is planned there?
Good catch. Pretty cool project according to permitting. 82 room hotel with roof deck. Investment group is headed by Howard Wolf. The city is beating them up for not having enough parking allotted at the moment. No indication what kind of hotel/brand of flag would be involved.
Quote from: Tulsan on June 11, 2020, 11:43:57 AM
Good catch. Pretty cool project according to permitting. 82 room hotel with roof deck. Investment group is headed by Howard Wolf. The city is beating them up for not having enough parking allotted at the moment. No indication what kind of hotel/brand of flag would be involved.
I noticed that and thought it was just THA renovating the senior apartments that used to be there.
Quote from: Tulsan on June 11, 2020, 11:43:57 AM
Good catch. Pretty cool project according to permitting. 82 room hotel with roof deck. Investment group is headed by Howard Wolf. The city is beating them up for not having enough parking allotted at the moment. No indication what kind of hotel/brand of flag would be involved.
Nice. Wasn't expecting a revamp to hotel.
Thank god. That building has been an eye sore for decades. It looks like something out of North Korea. I always wondered why they didn't try to paint it or anything.
Not sure how I see it working as a hotel, but anything that spruces it up is good by me.
Quote from: AdamsHall on June 11, 2020, 11:31:40 AM
Just up Boulder from 21st street, the River Park Lofts building (1840 S Boulder Ave) is being gutted. Interesting structure to try to save. Any ideas on what is planned there?
Funny enough, the latest street view of that building shows it being gutted already last September:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1349098,-95.9895857,3a,75y,129.62h,110.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWrSKVp1p_ndDt7Wem46xWA!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1349098,-95.9895857,3a,75y,129.62h,110.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWrSKVp1p_ndDt7Wem46xWA!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
That's a big job!
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 11, 2020, 01:04:31 PM
Funny enough, the latest street view of that building shows it being gutted already last September:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1349098,-95.9895857,3a,75y,129.62h,110.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWrSKVp1p_ndDt7Wem46xWA!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1349098,-95.9895857,3a,75y,129.62h,110.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWrSKVp1p_ndDt7Wem46xWA!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
That's a big job!
I noticed the same thing on street view. I stopped using Boulder when it was under construction near downtown, but started using it again recently, so I missed the early activity.
Not sure if any of you have seen these new modern houses being built at 13th and Delaware in the Renaissance Neighborhood. This was the vacant lot on the northwest corner of 13th and Delaware, just south of Audacity Church. This isn't the best angle, but here are a couple of pics I took the other day.
(https://xqu6na.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mBHlUKETUkgeRA4VtbVMVodmzdx-paBT2M04e7HUwBVovCXWuu7PsOdmlH1rhcFq3SPuVJE91UJR4vm8_nXZOrojZ1jl_lzIzrToBMNh5KhGtKCtZWUfIZH6qmiLtOHDPRw794fnd7d3jRh_4YCvieK7uAtSCXteYKXRsohkP-62szRkE2pSf9Sgpc42EBeazkRnxfr67-IvZ8jG1E6W2ng?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
(https://yvu6na.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mbWAW34ez4lYpdc2MUCDo_aGM_Qx73BQ9e9VtBZJ0e80NQjahJKsacHRIsUtBA4vuuItC7qAZSR6XeuBa3fmhjNGY5l4xyzCa98EO3FEl1djEgIaJD_uq8Cu1ZHW-0YXNQxgjrB8INqKklBOmZu5c647m7Nt01XMY5aKbLx842Qxuuu2s0ueF7i5Rt_JsUjoLpukl5Vn5alTQe7JoaD8kQg?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
Quote from: DowntownDan on April 03, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
The Louisiane building would be perfect for a small scale grocery store/restaurant. It's crazy to me that Reasors at 15th and Lewis is still the closest grocery store to downtown, Riverview, and Maple Ridge.
The Louisiane was apparently torn down today. https://www.facebook.com/tulsaarchitecture/posts/10157078439056644
The permit issued yesterday. https://tulsaok.tylertech.com/EnerGov4934/SelfService#/permit/692ea570-491e-431c-a61e-3a5dfa794af9
The owner is an entity named 624 Boston, LLC (it used to own the 624 Boston building). https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R38225921214650&go=1 This entity also owns the vacant lots behind the Louisiane. Registered agent is Kajeer Yar, 2651 E. 66th St. https://www.sos.ok.gov/corp/corpInformation.aspx?id=3512210033.
Mr. Yar owns Lefty's on Greenwood and was a principal developer in GreenArch, the downtown apartment complex.
Hopefully it won't sit vacant for decades. Pat Fox of Fox+Allen (frequent poster on this forum) probably knows the full story ... and maybe the plan for what's to come. Maybe he'll share it.
(https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/pictures/real/R38225921214650/2015_IMP_001_1-29-2015_AB.jpg)
Speaking of Pat Fox what is the latest on the Knoll at Maple Ridge he had planned for the lot to the north? I know retail developments are not really happening right now but wondering if there was any movement pre-COVID. I've thought a brewery with a beer garden would be great there.
Sad they tore that building down. It had tons of Character. Also interesting, but it looks like 624 S Boston also owns the building to West of there, which currently houses Solera Sobo. Solera recently announced they would be vacating that building because the owner would not renew their lease. (Or was asking an exorbitant number, can't remember.) It sounds like they may have something planned for that entire space on the South side.
Quote from: Tulsan on July 08, 2020, 08:10:30 PM
The Louisiane was apparently torn down today. https://www.facebook.com/tulsaarchitecture/posts/10157078439056644
At 18th and Boston, Tulsa's fanciest restaurant became a pile of rubble https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/michael-overall-at-18th-and-boston-tulsas-fanciest-restaurant-became-a-pile-of-rubble/article_56cf56b8-f99c-5bd2-9928-69e4ca417db1.html
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/b3/3b3f614e-2fb4-5a9d-887e-b1cd43bc9352/5f08ac740ed89.image.jpg?resize=800%2C600)
I seem to remember reading here or somewhere else that the Louisiane building was only being held up by the bricks and electrical wiring. It was hacked up and redesigned so many times, and rumor had it that several remodels were done without permits or to code so it was cheaper to tear down and build new than to rehab what was there.
Load of potential for a great mixed-use development at this location next to the Midland Valley trail. With the Gathering Place I feel like people in Tulsa have "discovered" this gem of a trail that midtown people have known about for decades. 18th & Boston seems like the best place for "trail-side" development with outdoor cafes you can access right off the trail. The Knoll at Maple Ridge is a planned project to the north that also fronts the trail. Once the new pedestrian bridge is open you'll be able to ride directly across the river on the Midland Valley trail.
Would love to eventually see something similar around where the trail crosses the highway over in Tracy Park around 13th & Owasso. That's another gem of a neighborhood I feel like not many know about; same for Gunboat Park.
Quote from: SXSW on July 12, 2020, 05:46:15 PM
Load of potential for a great mixed-use development at this location next to the Midland Valley trail. With the Gathering Place I feel like people in Tulsa have "discovered" this gem of a trail that midtown people have known about for decades. 18th & Boston seems like the best place for "trail-side" development with outdoor cafes you can access right off the trail. The Knoll at Maple Ridge is a planned project to the north that also fronts the trail. Once the new pedestrian bridge is open you'll be able to ride directly across the river on the Midland Valley trail.
Would love to eventually see something similar around where the trail crosses the highway over in Tracy Park around 13th & Owasso. That's another gem of a neighborhood I feel like not many know about; same for Gunboat Park.
Agree on 18th and Boston. Love that area. Rode the trail Friday just to see the building being torn down. Sad to see it go, but that spot could really anchor the SE corner of the area, and abut the trail. If the Knoll actually happens, that area will really start to rock. Sad about Solera Sobo leaving though. They are perfect there.
Also rode past Tracy Park neighborhood. Every time I ride past it, I think its a neat area that just needs to hit critical mass on on some restores and it will go hard. I think, though, that Gunboat Park will never really come back hard. It's just not big enough, and there is very restricted in terms of access. A few neat houses though.
Quote from: rebound on July 13, 2020, 10:34:47 AM
I think, though, that Gunboat Park will never really come back hard. It's just not big enough, and there is very restricted in terms of access. A few neat houses though.
I agree Gunboat will be more difficult than Tracy Park. There is a local developer currently working to improve this neighborhood though: https://www.tulsapeople.com/city-desk/catalysts-for-change/article_e812ad4c-b8ac-11ea-a20b-0726ef7ce55e.html (https://www.tulsapeople.com/city-desk/catalysts-for-change/article_e812ad4c-b8ac-11ea-a20b-0726ef7ce55e.html)
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsapeople.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/66/666b08c4-b8ad-11ea-8ee6-bb52a0cb41d6/5ef79f9383c7e.image.jpg?resize=750%2C422)
The 15th St streetscape is mostly complete. It's definitely an improvement but why didn't they add street trees?
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/e3/6e3216cb-d0d9-53ff-b595-89e1ce71c344/5f31ac19b6050.image.jpg?resize=400%2C270)
Quote from: SXSW on August 11, 2020, 09:12:27 AM
The 15th St streetscape is mostly complete. It's definitely an improvement but why didn't they add street trees?
That was my question. There are no power lines on the north side of the street and there are all of those bump-outs with stamped concrete that looks like brick. Those bump-outs would make good spots for trees.
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on August 11, 2020, 05:26:57 PM
That was my question. There are no power lines on the north side of the street and there are all of those bump-outs with stamped concrete that looks like brick. Those bump-outs would make good spots for trees.
Yeah I guess they could be placeholders and could have a raised planter added but seems like a missed opportunity. Agree this would be where you would want trees with the southern exposure on that side of the street. Something like this:
(https://ebhengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Hugoton_Streetscape_5_Completed.jpg)
I would bet money that they will end up with movable planters in the near future. Easier to maintain and move out of the way for events. Trees would have been nice as well though.
Quote from: shavethewhales on August 12, 2020, 08:23:32 AM
I would bet money that they will end up with movable planters in the near future. Easier to maintain and move out of the way for events. Trees would have been nice as well though.
Speaking of events will the Farmer's Market move back to Cherry Street?
Quote from: SXSW on August 12, 2020, 04:21:19 PM
Speaking of events will the Farmer's Market move back to Cherry Street?
I'd love to see the Farmer's Market build a permanent facility somewhere close by so that way there'd be some fresh produce and local other items that could be purchased any day of the week.
One of my dream locations for them to do that would be the NEC of 15th/Boston on the area next to the Cincinnati ramp. ODOT owns a lot of that area that they don't really need and just creates and odd dead space between the main part of Cherry Street and Uptown/South Downtown. Having a market in that area would really help bridge the gap and would be directly off the trail that goes down to Riverside.
On another note - I really don't get the cities thinking behind doing this so cheaply given this is one of the best urban retail areas in the city. The asphalt usage drives me crazy, there will be pot holes all over the place in a matter of months. Why they didn't build it out with concrete is beyond me. At least in those bump outs that could come back and add landscaping. Even if they didn't add street trees, doing native grasses and flower beds would do a lot.
Lower Greenville in Dallas is a perfect example of what I wished they would have done and I drive up/down this area almost daily. One of the only areas of Dallas I really like which is why I moved to that neighborhood. It felt very much like Brookside/Cherry Street. https://goo.gl/maps/7B336MdiVtjstYPV6
The other area I like a lot is the Farmer's Market. I'd love to see something similar built in Tulsa somewhere. https://goo.gl/maps/N4MVGBBeDazHoaH49
Agree that Lower Greenville streetscape looks great. It is definitely an improvement but I feel like it could've been done a lot better to create a more unique identity along 15th. Like the lamps by Kilkenny's.
Construction fence now up around entire 15th street Subway restaurant building. The eastern part of the building burned several months ago. Anyone know if it is getting demolished?
Quote from: AdamsHall on August 19, 2020, 11:23:43 AM
Construction fence now up around entire 15th street Subway restaurant building. The eastern part of the building burned several months ago. Anyone know if it is getting demolished?
Hopefully whatever replaces it builds up the sidewalk. With the new mixed-use building to the east that would help complete that block of Cherry Street. Anyone know when they plan to open Sidecar?
Still wondering about if The Maple is still an active project. I know hotels are kind of dead in the water right now. And last time I drove by there is a For Sale sign on this property. I still would love to see this happen, if not a hotel then condos. It's a great location for it.
(https://courynetwork.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/sites/2/2018/07/tulsa-hotel-maple-1200x630.jpg)
https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/ (https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/)
If the property is up for sale, I think it's safe to say it's dead. It was a great concept and location. Unfortunately it'll probably get replaced with a bank or dentist office or something eventually.
It's mixed-use zoning so hopeful it's something with some more density. Condos would be a great fit here.
Quote from: SXSW on August 27, 2020, 02:02:04 PM
It's mixed-use zoning so hopeful it's something with some more density. Condos would be a great fit here.
I doubt the neighbors will allow anything with much height to be built. They've successfully killed several other proposals and I'm pretty sure that hotel deal is dead too. Both of those land parcels between the bank and Cincinnati are owned by two different groups and both are still actively being marketed.
At some point something will go in there, the price they are asking for the land is pretty expensive so given the blow back from neighbors on higher density proposals it's hard to make anything work there at the moment.
Honest question, why do the surrounding neighbors have so much power to kill a higher density project? If it fits the zoning which is mixed-use and isn't out of character why should they dictate what goes here? As far as neighborhood character there are existing apartments to the east and south and even high-rises in close proximity. Unlike the Brookside31 site this is an empty lot that used to be a commercial property.
Quote from: SXSW on August 27, 2020, 09:16:01 PM
Honest question, why do the surrounding neighbors have so much power to kill a higher density project? If it fits the zoning which is mixed-use and isn't out of character why should they dictate what goes here? As far as neighborhood character there are existing apartments to the east and south and even high-rises in close proximity. Unlike the Brookside31 site this is an empty lot that used to be a commercial property.
If it was mixed use zoning you could do a lot more with the site, but it's mostly OM (medium office) and a small part is CS (commercial). The problem is with the FAR allowable density is only 0.50 so makes it hard to make a project work for that density with the land price being about $30.00 sq. ft. At some point when retail/office rents increase and places like Cherry Street run out of space you'll start seeing overflow into this area and at some point something will make sense. Also, given the size of the parcels you're likely going to have to do underground parking or podium parking, both of which are very expensive.
The neighbors have kill a few rezoning attempts, one was a really long time ago and I think that developer wanted to build a high-rise condo project. The hotel developer talked to neighbors and didn't feel like they'd have a successful try getting the site up-zoned or at least enough push back they didn't feel like going through the fight to do it.
Given what's going on with the Brookside proposal, I do think if someone really wanted to do something on the site they could get approval for mixed-use or at least some PD approval.
There's just a lot of various factors with these two particular parcels that has scared a lot of people off. I've actually wanted to buy these two sites for several years, but just don't have the capital for it yet. I've had a few idea I think I could make work that wouldn't block views of the homes behind it and fit in with neighborhood. Maybe in a few years if they're still on the market.
Walking by the old Mary's Trattoria a couple of days ago, I noticed the FOR LEASE sign was no longer posted. Does anyone know what's going on with that property? (Hopefully new restaurant)
New apartments off Harvard, 33 units - city approved a variance to allow 1 space per unit which is nice to see. We really need to get rid of the parking minimums in Tulsa and wish more developers would advocate for that.
https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/the-midtowner-to-add-midcentury-modern-feel-to-apartment-living/article_d99905a0-178d-11eb-ba46-cbfd8f4e2b3e.html#tracking-source=article-related-bottom
Location: 3320 E. 37th St.
(https://i.imgur.com/hr6yNCN.png)
The A&W/Long John Silver at 15th & Peoria is closed and boarded up. Anyone know the plans for this key corner in Cherry Street?
Quote from: LandArchPoke on October 31, 2020, 11:41:06 AM
Location: 3320 E. 37th St.
Google maps really chokes on this address for some reason
https://www.google.com/maps/search/3320+E.+37th+St
Quote from: SXSW on November 03, 2020, 04:01:43 PM
The A&W/Long John Silver at 15th & Peoria is closed and boarded up. Anyone know the plans for this key corner in Cherry Street?
It's on the market for the development of your dreams - renovation or scrape and build. Just get some investors and go after it!
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1444-S-Peoria-Ave-Tulsa-OK/17128419/
Quote from: Tulsan on November 04, 2020, 08:22:22 AM
It's on the market for the development of your dreams - renovation or scrape and build. Just get some investors and go after it!
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1444-S-Peoria-Ave-Tulsa-OK/17128419/
It's just for lease so it will be another fast food restaurant... it's too bad the owner doesn't put it up for sale too and you might see that corner redeveloped.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on November 05, 2020, 01:12:20 PM
It's just for lease so it will be another fast food restaurant... it's too bad the owner doesn't put it up for sale too and you might see that corner redeveloped.
QuoteThe existing building is available for lease or the building can be scraped and ground leased. Landlord would also consider a build to suit.
It's almost certainly a triple-net lease so do whatever you want.
Quote from: Tulsan on November 05, 2020, 02:03:29 PM
It's almost certainly a triple-net lease so do whatever you want.
Ah gotcha, which a ground lease would most likely be a fast food chain still... you don't really see many local restaurants who want to build their own building and not own the land... but if they were willing to do a very long term land lease (75-99 years) you might have a developer willing to do something different with the site, so not entirely impossible for the site to be scrapped and something more walk-able be built in its place but probably unlikely to be anything different than a fast food chain repurposing the building to meet their layout.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on November 05, 2020, 02:50:16 PM
Ah gotcha, which a ground lease would most likely be a fast food chain still... you don't really see many local restaurants who want to build their own building and not own the land... but if they were willing to do a very long term land lease (75-99 years) you might have a developer willing to do something different with the site, so not entirely impossible for the site to be scrapped and something more walk-able be built in its place but probably unlikely to be anything different than a fast food chain repurposing the building to meet their layout.
Something like what they did at Roosevelt's or 1515 Cherry would be awesome at this location.
Quote from: Tulsan on November 05, 2020, 02:03:29 PM
It's almost certainly a triple-net lease so do whatever you want.
Ugh - NNN leases - screw that noise.
Anyone have renderings of the new Mondo's? Curious who will fill their existing space
https://tulsaworld.com/entertainment/dining/mondos-buys-crow-creek-tavern-for-new-location/article_99679d2c-284d-11eb-afa5-4fbbaf377dd8.html#tracking-source=home-trending (https://tulsaworld.com/entertainment/dining/mondos-buys-crow-creek-tavern-for-new-location/article_99679d2c-284d-11eb-afa5-4fbbaf377dd8.html#tracking-source=home-trending)
I was on Cherry Street a couple of weeks ago and snagged some pics of the 1515 lofts. They are getting closer to being finished. It makes a nice addition to Cherry Street.
(https://dm2305files.storage.live.com/y4m0OewZjfLOgqOCB_Ju98gd9sAEKkJFHPym1jFNLqOnmRJ3a5-TLtM76fLuTE3OnQxP9_Qqm5EXeH8ux_yjos4GNhs-Rs6URSE7v4KlRWotvywGAiJSD8dg8M8k3HQHvkJ74skWYHq9spzDale2e8HbFcA0KiqrcUNSECnCdy9bBywKj_CUK9cPYHbXvyzRYUW?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
(https://dm2305files.storage.live.com/y4mcXP2C6Y5AdDZdKGbqWxWOdE2hDW5t5meub-E9GdteMPuEMoNBv3hShd4gE37Gxun4q8HI0tspZFDbqLVi3L8qj-KC0m4qR_uwcQMCkXz75THN0SaUjI2Sea8Edw72Xvol7sbNNGoaxw7J9L6b90-7nSMue3DLgeKpcs-Ey6m76HlpeK75KHGjYHvoac4EJmP?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
(https://dm2305files.storage.live.com/y4mZE9aOH-SQA00pl4Np-uuCL3Zsc1T2F4TWBA6CjVuq9zV9Vs6hR34242oRZjTdW9tcxvwFS0CL6dPoFeYDRrxrDfpK-3BFrfhrNQc86xJKmLqCIEi7tb3A8XRPKUghwXoRbh2b-TumAL4oVrofw6picG86-D2Q2ORaFTUWOLeeK_lMI0Th-D-LxMS3i8TZcej?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
Good mixed-use infill and added density, we need a lot more projects like this in Tulsa! Is SideCar still opening on the top floor? I still find it strange seeing Bruce G Weber on Cherry Street, I'm surprised they couldn't find another location in Utica Square.
There is some infrastructure work going on with "the lot" at Utica and the BA. Anything actually happening there or is it just regular maintenance?
One can only hope the abandoned/burnt out Subway and the derelict Long John Silver's can be next. Incredible to me that they've been in this state for so long.
Quote from: DowntownDan on January 26, 2021, 10:50:24 AM
There is some infrastructure work going on with "the lot" at Utica and the BA. Anything actually happening there or is it just regular maintenance?
Possibly a new location being built there for Cirque Coffee.
Quote from: Tulsan on January 26, 2021, 08:36:34 PM
Possibly a new location being built there for Cirque Coffee.
It's a huge lot and the work seems to be happening right in the middle. I highly doubt it would be to install a single coffee shop. It is most like to be a broader development right at the end of Cherry Street with prime access to major highway and streets. I hope something broader is happening but hoping its mixed use and not something bland or boring.
Quote from: DowntownDan on January 27, 2021, 11:14:11 AM
It's a huge lot and the work seems to be happening right in the middle. I highly doubt it would be to install a single coffee shop. It is most like to be a broader development right at the end of Cherry Street with prime access to major highway and streets. I hope something broader is happening but hoping its mixed use and not something bland or boring.
I'm interested to know if John Bumgarner is still involved. He has developed some of the nicer projects in midtown like Utica Place, Utica Plaza and most recently Utica East at 21st & Xanthus. Something like Utica Plaza on this site with mid-rise office space along Utica and residential townhomes fronting Troost would be great.
Quote from: SXSW on January 27, 2021, 01:05:45 PM
I'm interested to know if John Bumgarner is still involved. He has developed some of the nicer projects in midtown like Utica Place, Utica Plaza and most recently Utica East at 21st & Xanthus. Something like Utica Plaza on this site with mid-rise office space along Utica and residential townhomes fronting Troost would be great.
I just hope someone can talk him out of any more faux Tuscan designs.
Quote from: DowntownDan on January 27, 2021, 11:14:11 AM
It's a huge lot and the work seems to be happening right in the middle. I highly doubt it would be to install a single coffee shop. It is most like to be a broader development right at the end of Cherry Street with prime access to major highway and streets. I hope something broader is happening but hoping its mixed use and not something bland or boring.
The plumbing/electrical permits say "Cirque Coffee," and their Instagram says they're hiring for an exciting new location. There aren't any construction permits yet so we'll just have to see.
Quote from: Tulsan on January 27, 2021, 07:01:06 PM
The plumbing/electrical permits say "Cirque Coffee," and their Instagram says they're hiring for an exciting new location. There aren't any construction permits yet so we'll just have to see.
Huh. Maybe a small drive through coffee stand for now? I can't imagine that whole lot would be built up by a single coffee shop.
Quote from: DowntownDan on January 28, 2021, 02:48:21 PM
Huh. Maybe a small drive through coffee stand for now? I can't imagine that whole lot would be built up by a single coffee shop.
Maybe like the produce stand that is there in the summer.
Building up this site and the lots between 13th and 13th Pl would be huge for linking Cherry Street to 11th. I imagine the lots at 13th will be some kind of hospital expansion tied to either Hillcrest and/or Parkside.
There's been a temporary permit issued for a coffee shop with a drive-through in a shipping container for this location. Will be interesting to see what it looks like.
Quote from: Tulsan on February 02, 2021, 10:08:59 AM
There's been a temporary permit issued for a coffee shop with a drive-through in a shipping container for this location. Will be interesting to see what it looks like.
Yup, just found the permit, I hope it looks nice. It's permitted for temporary use so I guess the property owner still wants to hold on to it for a big development, but this will be a welcome addition. I hope they sell sweets, my daughter will love walking there!
I love Cirque Coffee. Hopefully they have a place in whatever the future redevelopment ends up being on this site.
Only had Cirque once but only because I've been a Doubleshot fan for a while. This will be walking distance for me so I will surely be frequenting this new location. Good coffee is good coffee, and again, I hope they have some food items too.
The structure went up quick and looks pretty nice. Lots of paving so it's clearly targeting drive-thru traffic from the BA, but I hope they have some indoor space and maybe an outdoor sitting area. It would be a perfect walk for me and I would spend time there for sure.
Quote from: DowntownDan on March 05, 2021, 10:52:34 AM
The structure went up quick and looks pretty nice. Lots of paving so it's clearly targeting drive-thru traffic from the BA, but I hope they have some indoor space and maybe an outdoor sitting area. It would be a perfect walk for me and I would spend time there for sure.
It doesn't look like there is going to be any outdoor space - I drove past this the other day. It looks like they took a few shipping containers and cut out a few spaces for windows and plopped it down on the site. There appears to only be maybe 6-10 parking spaces in the back. It's mostly drive through lanes. So not sure how much space there will be on the inside for walk-ins. It's definitely not pedestrian friendly whatsoever. I just hope this is truly temporary, it would be a tremendous waste of that space long-term.
I agree^, seems like they wanted a quick drive through stand... seems like a giant slab of concrete when I saw it back a few days ago.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on March 09, 2021, 12:10:22 PM
It doesn't look like there is going to be any outdoor space - I drove past this the other day. It looks like they took a few shipping containers and cut out a few spaces for windows and plopped it down on the site. There appears to only be maybe 6-10 parking spaces in the back. It's mostly drive through lanes. So not sure how much space there will be on the inside for walk-ins. It's definitely not pedestrian friendly whatsoever. I just hope this is truly temporary, it would be a tremendous waste of that space long-term.
Better than an empty lot. If the Bumgarners still own this parcel they will do this development right. It's in a great spot and definitely would be an appropriate location for high density office and/or residential.
My guess is that this is "temporary" but that there still are no plans for bigger development in the foreseeable future. My guess is that the contract provides some set number of years that this will operate, otherwise the investment wouldn't be worth it. I also think that the contract gives Cirque some consideration to be part of any new broader development on the site.
(https://scontent.ftul1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/161249461_4362127677130558_2651402501983745151_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ePwYzr6C0O8AX-m3EEz&_nc_ht=scontent.ftul1-1.fna&oh=3d05a82f59f15ba84d63ef070d92bc13&oe=60772E05)
It looked quasi-open yesterday. Looks kind of lonely on that huge lot, but its paved and better than nothing I guess, for now.
Curious if this project is still on track at 13th & Peoria? It would replace Golden Pawn with a restaurant and music venue.
(https://www.freesearchitecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/The-Bridge-001.jpg)
https://www.freesearchitecture.com/portfolio/the-bridge/ (https://www.freesearchitecture.com/portfolio/the-bridge/)
Quote from: SXSW on April 12, 2021, 12:00:19 PM
Curious if this project is still on track at 13th & Peoria? It would replace Golden Pawn with a restaurant and music venue.
(https://www.freesearchitecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/The-Bridge-001.jpg)
https://www.freesearchitecture.com/portfolio/the-bridge/ (https://www.freesearchitecture.com/portfolio/the-bridge/)
I believe in the news article they did on this project a few months ago was that the owners are planning to start on the project in 2022.. I think the start date was a ways out since part of this will be an event center too, probably makes the financing a bit more difficult right now.
Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on January 26, 2021, 10:53:16 AM
One can only hope the abandoned/burnt out Subway and the derelict Long John Silver's can be next. Incredible to me that they've been in this state for so long.
Interesting article in
Tulsa World about a proposal for this site, back in 1985.
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/michael-overall-how-tulsa-almost-built-a-pair-of-high-rise-office-towers-on-historic/article_1d0edba0-9edb-11eb-8b77-77d57bfbfb26.html
Quote from: Oil Capital on April 18, 2021, 10:24:59 AM
Interesting article in Tulsa World about a proposal for this site, back in 1985.
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/michael-overall-how-tulsa-almost-built-a-pair-of-high-rise-office-towers-on-historic/article_1d0edba0-9edb-11eb-8b77-77d57bfbfb26.html
Maybe try again, but 6 stories instead of 12?
Quote from: DowntownDan on March 05, 2021, 10:52:34 AM
The structure went up quick and looks pretty nice. Lots of paving so it's clearly targeting drive-thru traffic from the BA, but I hope they have some indoor space and maybe an outdoor sitting area. It would be a perfect walk for me and I would spend time there for sure.
TULSA, Okla. — First responders were called to the scene at 14th Street and Utica after a car crashed into the Cirque Coffee shop Wednesday morning.
According to a Cirque Coffee shop worker, an elderly person had a medical incident while traveling on the Broken Arrow Expressway. The driver went through the fence, crossed Utica, and then hit the building.
Quote from: patric on May 27, 2021, 10:25:13 AM
TULSA, Okla. — First responders were called to the scene at 14th Street and Utica after a car crashed into the Cirque Coffee shop Wednesday morning.
According to a Cirque Coffee shop worker, an elderly person had a medical incident while traveling on the Broken Arrow Expressway. The driver went through the fence, crossed Utica, and then hit the building.
Saw that on newson6.com yesterday. Must have been a hell of a ride crossing that many lanes of traffic without hitting another vehicle or person.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 27, 2021, 10:52:35 AM
Saw that on newson6.com yesterday. Must have been a hell of a ride crossing that many lanes of traffic without hitting another vehicle or person.
Really lucky. According to the map, the coffee shop is on the SW corner of 14th & Utica. Is the map incorrect? I haven't been up that way recently. I am thinking maybe the driver crossed 14th St rather than Utica after "exiting" the BA.
https://goo.gl/maps/SKFYMstKQfRiLHTW7
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 27, 2021, 10:52:35 AM
Saw that on newson6.com yesterday. Must have been a hell of a ride crossing that many lanes of traffic without hitting another vehicle or person.
No kidding. If the report he crossed Utica is accurate, he would have been westbound on the BA, crossed the wrong-way into eastbound BA, then 14th and then Utica.
https://goo.gl/maps/79zzeaQE319DMXSF9
You can see the path he took. Crossed the eastbound lane, through the fence, through an Up With Trees sign, accross 14th (the access road), across Utica, then right into the coffee shot shipping container. Incredible how long that must have taken. That poor coffee shop seemed to already be having plubming issues with trucks there seemingly every week, and now this.
I saw this morning an Eskimo Joes sign going up on the Roosevelts building, the opposite side of the building. Also saw a sign that its a business-to-business marketing office for Eskimo Joes, with a huge sign going up this morning.
I took it that the driver was westbound on the BA before the bridge over Utica, went through the median across eastbound lanes, down the embankment, across 14th then both directions of Utica and possibly the median on Utica before hitting Cirque.
The attached Google Street View is just a guess and from 2018, but the main thing is there are no curbs, barriers, retaining walls, or anything to stop a vehicle from leaving the expressway and winding up on Utica.
https://goo.gl/maps/KHyYE7KHwPtRoaCL6 (https://goo.gl/maps/KHyYE7KHwPtRoaCL6)
Quote from: DowntownDan on May 27, 2021, 01:05:21 PM
I saw this morning an Eskimo Joes sign going up on the Roosevelts building, the opposite side of the building. Also saw a sign that its a business-to-business marketing office for Eskimo Joes, with a huge sign going up this morning.
Help my foggy memory, where is the Roosevelt Building?
Quote from: DowntownDan on May 27, 2021, 01:04:11 PM
You can see the path he took. Crossed the eastbound lane, through the fence, through an Up With Trees sign, accross 14th (the access road), across Utica, then right into the coffee shot shipping container. Incredible how long that must have taken. That poor coffee shop seemed to already be having plubming issues with trucks there seemingly every week, and now this.
Have some pictures or a link?
Found the story on KJRH, and while it doesn't show the path, it does show he moved the container about four feet.
https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/driver-crashes-into-tulsa-coffee-shop-wednesday-morning (https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/driver-crashes-into-tulsa-coffee-shop-wednesday-morning)
(https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/cf27c52/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2016x1134+0+189/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fewscripps-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fde%2F86%2F4d69be1d4bc88171e8af22398316%2Fcirque.coffee2.jpg)
Oof... all that plumbing and other infrastructure that's going to have to be reset. That was a hell of a collision. Can't wait for autonomous cars!
The building with Roosevelt's in it?
Separate thought. It's sad to me that Cherry St... which is one of Tulsa's "premier" streets, has so much dilapidation. The burnt down Subway has been there for almost 2 years... same with the old Long John Silvers. I can't believe those haven't been dealt with.
Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on May 27, 2021, 02:35:23 PM
Separate thought. It's sad to me that Cherry St... which is one of Tulsa's "premier" streets, has so much dilapidation. The burnt down Subway has been there for almost 2 years... same with the old Long John Silvers. I can't believe those haven't been dealt with.
The Long John Silver building is for lease. Wish someone could buy it and raze it, definitely a prime location. I don't know what the plan for Subway is that's another prime spot next to the new apartments that have taken forever to finish, maybe they'll do something once that whole sidewalk has reopened.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 27, 2021, 02:31:00 PM
Found the story on KJRH, and while it doesn't show the path, it does show he moved the container about four feet.
https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/driver-crashes-into-tulsa-coffee-shop-wednesday-morning (https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/driver-crashes-into-tulsa-coffee-shop-wednesday-morning)
Man that is a hard hit. They hit the container hard enough to sheer the bolts to the slab AND move it four feet?
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 27, 2021, 02:31:00 PM
Found the story on KJRH, and while it doesn't show the path, it does show he moved the container about four feet.
https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/driver-crashes-into-tulsa-coffee-shop-wednesday-morning (https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/driver-crashes-into-tulsa-coffee-shop-wednesday-morning)
(https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/cf27c52/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2016x1134+0+189/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fewscripps-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fde%2F86%2F4d69be1d4bc88171e8af22398316%2Fcirque.coffee2.jpg)
Thanks. That was a hard hit.
Quote from: shavethewhales on May 27, 2021, 02:34:31 PM
Can't wait for autonomous cars!
Can't wait to see what redundancy requirements become standard/mandated. Really can't have a Blue Screen of Death become literal.
Quote from: swake on May 27, 2021, 03:11:03 PM
Man that is a hard hit. They hit the container hard enough to sheer the bolts to the slab AND move it four feet?
Clearly he had taken the Covid vaccine which magnetized his blood and he was pulled off the highway towards the steel container used for the Cirque Coffee shop. Possibly there were also Jewish space lasers involved.
Wait - sorry - I thought this was the TulsaQNow forum... ;D
Quote from: tulsabug on May 28, 2021, 07:27:45 AM
Clearly he had taken the Covid vaccine which magnetized his blood and he was pulled off the highway towards the steel container used for the Cirque Coffee shop. Possibly there were also Jewish space lasers involved.
Wait - sorry - I thought this was the TulsaQNow forum... ;D
He was probably blinded by the lasers and unable to correct visually for the magnetic attraction to the coffee shop. Very unfortunate combination.
Quote from: tulsabug on May 28, 2021, 07:27:45 AM
Clearly he had taken the Covid vaccine which magnetized his blood and he was pulled off the highway towards the steel container used for the Cirque Coffee shop. Possibly there were also Jewish space lasers involved.
Wait - sorry - I thought this was the TulsaQNow forum... ;D
Has been in the past....seems to be calmer now.
Does anyone know what is going on at the northwest corner of 15th and Utica? They just tore down the building immediately to the west of the gas station, and the one immediately to the west of the Chelsea Gallery. Chelsea Gallery is still there.
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on September 02, 2021, 09:45:08 AM
Does anyone know what is going on at the northwest corner of 15th and Utica? They just tore down the building immediately to the west of the gas station, and the one immediately to the west of the Chelsea Gallery. Chelsea Gallery is still there.
The same entity owns everything there except for the Gallery. I wonder if they'll buy them out to take the whole corner? Luckily it won't be a Walgreens or Quiktrip since they are both just down the road at Lewis. Whatever they do it better fit Cherry Street.
I also seem to recall about a year or two ago the gas station was selling gas at like 40 cents below everyone else. I thought they were trying to get rid of it and shut down but that never happened. I also saw that there was a lawsuit for the gas station's failure to pay rent. It truly is an unkillable gas station, thus far at least.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 02, 2021, 11:03:36 AM
The same entity owns everything there except for the Gallery. I wonder if they'll buy them out to take the whole corner? Luckily it won't be a Walgreens or Quiktrip since they are both just down the road at Lewis. Whatever they do it better fit Cherry Street.
I also seem to recall about a year or two ago the gas station was selling gas at like 40 cents below everyone else. I thought they were trying to get rid of it and shut down but that never happened. I also saw that there was a lawsuit for the gas station's failure to pay rent. It truly is an unkillable gas station, thus far at least.
All of that, including the vacant lots at 14th & Utica, is owned by subsidiaries of Bumgarner Asset Management (John and Chris Bumgarner).
I have no clue what they're doing with that demo.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 02, 2021, 11:03:36 AM
The same entity owns everything there except for the Gallery. I wonder if they'll buy them out to take the whole corner? Luckily it won't be a Walgreens or Quiktrip since they are both just down the road at Lewis. Whatever they do it better fit Cherry Street.
No - it could still be a Walgreens. They don't seem to have any problem overproliferating an area and that CVS on the east corner is just tempting them.
/ I'm just kidding - it'll probably be a dollar store of some sort. ;D
I figure they will tear all the buildings down and then leave the lots empty for the next 20 years. You know, the Tulsa standard.
14th & Utica is one of the biggest holes in Midtown. Hopefully whatever is happening on 15th is tied to development of that parcel.
An early Christmas miracle! (At least to me). Drove down 15th street and saw a crew working on the long abandoned Long John Silvers... Looked to be demo of some sort.
I saw it today too and didn't look like a tear down. Saw a facebook rumor that it's "Velvet Taco." I guess tacos are the new pizza. Open a bunch and see which ones survive.
Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on September 09, 2021, 08:09:26 AM
An early Christmas miracle! (At least to me). Drove down 15th street and saw a crew working on the long abandoned Long John Silvers... Looked to be demo of some sort.
Is that across 15th from McDonalds at Peoria? I haven't been there for quite a while so I had to cruise the street with Street View on Google Maps.
Hearing Velvet Taco as well. I was hoping for a new build to the corner here but definitely better than an empty building
Sidecar, the rooftop bar on Cherry Street, is supposed to open later this month. Are the apartments complete and leasing? Seems like that project has taken forever to build. HOPEFULLY the old Subway next door is next in line to be renovated.
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/241768994_2894942994056757_7213639133461512091_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=s9bjoXgWRkQAX9QVSf0&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=4851fa3a3addd1aa0e364b9510dfa0e1&oe=61657DB1)
That is weird. Not much progress since I was last on Cherry street in late July. Looks like they have dabbled at removing the burned out portion of the Subway, but that amount of progress is about what I could do myself in a weekend. They had been doing a bit on the interior as of two months ago, but it's weird how little effort they've put into the outside. Haven't even taken the sign down yet. Not sure why they are moving so slowly on these two projects unless it is the typical labor/materials excuse.
I'm just happy they allowed a sidewalk and angled parking in front of the Subway building. I remember from one of the very early meetings about the street reconstruction that the city engineer hinted pretty clearly that the Subway building owners weren't going to allow it to be changed. Google maps still shows what it was like before. Awful for pedestrians.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 13, 2021, 03:26:27 PM
I'm just happy they allowed a sidewalk and angled parking in front of the Subway building. I remember from one of the very early meetings about the street reconstruction that the city engineer hinted pretty clearly that the Subway building owners weren't going to allow it to be changed. Google maps still shows what it was like before. Awful for pedestrians.
The way it is set up now a future business could expand out to the sidewalk or have a huge outdoor patio
Quote from: SXSW on September 11, 2021, 11:24:18 PM
Hearing Velvet Taco as well. I was hoping for a new build to the corner here but definitely better than an empty building
https://tulsaworld.com/entertainment/dining/velvet-taco-coming-to-former-long-john-silvers-location/article_28c87536-14d9-11ec-99f6-fb2c248d4c34.html#tracking-source=home-trending (https://tulsaworld.com/entertainment/dining/velvet-taco-coming-to-former-long-john-silvers-location/article_28c87536-14d9-11ec-99f6-fb2c248d4c34.html#tracking-source=home-trending)
Its been confirmed that its Velvet taco. So you have Velvet Tacos and Foxy Tacos right up the street
Quote from: brettakins on September 14, 2021, 10:56:36 AM
https://tulsaworld.com/entertainment/dining/velvet-taco-coming-to-former-long-john-silvers-location/article_28c87536-14d9-11ec-99f6-fb2c248d4c34.html#tracking-source=home-trending (https://tulsaworld.com/entertainment/dining/velvet-taco-coming-to-former-long-john-silvers-location/article_28c87536-14d9-11ec-99f6-fb2c248d4c34.html#tracking-source=home-trending)
Its been confirmed that its Velvet taco. So you have Velvet Tacos and Foxy Tacos right up the street
Don't they have Foxy and Velvet over at Night Trips?
Quote from: swake on September 14, 2021, 11:00:16 AM
Don't they have Foxy and Velvet over at Night Trips?
They were understudies to Lexi and Porche.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 14, 2021, 11:04:01 AM
They were understudies to Lexi and Porche.
I could make a taco joke now, but that might be going a bit far.
I didn't see any mention of this here. It appears McNellie's Group is wanting to open a restaurant and add some office space at 18th and Cincinnati.
http://www.tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/cases/Z-7626.pdf (http://www.tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/cases/Z-7626.pdf)
Neat. I didn't look carefully, but I don't see any indication of which restaurant concept it will include. I wonder if it will be the first stand alone version of their asian restaurant that they've been incubating next to their HQ. Still haven't tried that one out yet. In any case, that's another step forward for this up and coming little district.
Elliot Nelson is hosting a neighborhood meeting next Wednesday about this project. Here is what Elliot put on Facebook:
QuoteI'm hosting a neighborhood meeting/Q&A next Wednesday, September 22, at 1810 S. Cincinnati Ave. at 6:30pm to discuss a rezoning application we've filed on the property. Despite being a commercial building since 1932, the building is zoned for multi-family residential use. Our intent is to rehab the building and turn it back into a commercial use, but in order to do so, we need to rezone the property as mixed-use. As part of the rezoning process, INCOG has asked us to host a neighborhood meeting to talk about the project and answer questions. Please stop by if you're interested. McNellie's Group will be on hand with adult beverages and Rose Rock Microcreamery will have ice cream for the kids. Hope to see you there and I can't wait to bring this building back to life!
https://www.facebook.com/MapleRidgeNeighborhood/posts/4728941277119074
So much potential in the 18th & Boston/Cincinnati area with the MV trail, hopefully we see some trail-side development there like you see along the Katy Trail in Dallas.
I know the Knoll at Maple Ridge is dead but hopefully something like it can be revived in that location and along 18th where the Louisianne building used to be. These would be immediately popular especially on nice weather days. Even more so once the pedestrian bridge is completed and you can bike directly across the river
The gas station at 15th and Utica looks to be going out of business. Seems they've done this a time or two and somehow survives, but with the recent nearby demolitions, there has to be a plan. It better not just be further expanding "the lot."
That's surprising. That's such a high traffic and high visibility corner. There is a QT down the street, but it's super busy and hard to get in and out of. Not a ton of other stations in the vicinity. Would be a great spot for a Casey's/OnCue/etc. It's a different owner than the building being demo'd to the west, right?
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 27, 2021, 11:07:56 AM
The gas station at 15th and Utica looks to be going out of business. Seems they've done this a time or two and somehow survives, but with the recent nearby demolitions, there has to be a plan. It better not just be further expanding "the lot."
Interesting. The Bumgarner's own the empty lot next door and the rest of the block. They typically take on one project at a time and completed Utica East last year. This may be their next project which has been a decade in the making. I know at one time they wanted to do something that was a mix of office and residential. Something like Utica Plaza or Utica Place that stretches from 14th to 15th would be nice infill at this location. 1515 Utica (Arvest) caddy-corner to this site is also a Bumgarner development.
Someone should do some sleuthing and see who owns the gas station
I guess their focus will be on the intersection of 15th and Utica and not the lot on the BA which has the shipping container coffee shop now that just went up. Tells me that part of the lot is probably a long way off, if ever. Some nice development to the south will help the overall area.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 27, 2021, 11:51:30 AM
I guess their focus will be on the intersection of 15th and Utica and not the lot on the BA which has the shipping container coffee shop now that just went up. Tells me that part of the lot is probably a long way off, if ever. Some nice development to the south will help the overall area.
Cirque Coffee is likely just a placeholder and won't impact a large redevelopment of the entire site. Hopefully they can have a permanent home in that same area, or move north to the empty lots by Hillcrest
Quote from: SXSW on September 27, 2021, 11:31:19 AM
Someone should do some sleuthing and see who owns the gas station
It's the Bumgarners too. They bought it about 5 years ago under the same vehicle they used to buy the rest of the block except for the Hillcrest corner (Cirque) and a few of the old townhomes.
They have the entire square block except for the frame shop.
Anyone heard anything about new condos planned for 21st & Main? This is the site adjacent to the bank. This is all I could find:
(https://steve-easley.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/image3-980x552.jpg)
https://steve-easley.com/project/21-main-condos/ (https://steve-easley.com/project/21-main-condos/)
Quote from: SXSW on September 13, 2021, 11:18:14 AM
Sidecar, the rooftop bar on Cherry Street, is supposed to open later this month. Are the apartments complete and leasing? Seems like that project has taken forever to build. HOPEFULLY the old Subway next door is next in line to be renovated.
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/241768994_2894942994056757_7213639133461512091_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=s9bjoXgWRkQAX9QVSf0&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=4851fa3a3addd1aa0e364b9510dfa0e1&oe=61657DB1)
Sidecar opens October 12
Some interior pics of Sidecar at 15th & St Louis
(https://scontent.fapa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/245185883_10159694350542238_1784634511302391118_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sVuZcQRhBY8AX_BAvPB&_nc_ht=scontent.fapa1-1.fna&oh=e4f3ea1e736ab35abbae4e5ac5a835fb&oe=618A758D)
(https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/245461668_10159694350617238_9014983978679613663_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=MTeCJ3nLruMAX91wOqW&tn=1n3eGh-esQMtKFKs&_nc_ht=scontent.fapa1-2.fna&oh=deda8fc2f610b3d8b09364aed29c5bbb&oe=618C4C12)
(https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/245625305_10159694350552238_8042884344641210040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=AhRLne_w6YoAX_i3l79&_nc_ht=scontent.fapa1-2.fna&oh=06453e307c1f5b6e84e503190db31218&oe=6189B7E3)
Looks great! And I saw this weekend that Foxy Taco's patio was busy for the football game. Nice developments.
On that note, the weird pizza place in the Foxy Taco spot had to be some sort of tax scheme, right? I mean they tore out the best part of the property, an outdoor bar, and tried to compete with Andolinis, Hideaway, and Prarie Fire. That had zero chance of success. Literally everyone I know said it would fail. How was it even a thing?
Quote from: SXSW on October 03, 2021, 09:34:59 PM
Anyone heard anything about new condos planned for 21st & Main? This is the site adjacent to the bank. This is all I could find:
...
I feel like they have redesigned that condo tower 6 times now. They have been talking about that property since I was a kid, but nothing ever gets off the ground. Those floor heights are something else. Must be some two story high ceilings on the upper levels.
Sidecar looks great. Sounds like they will have several locations since they are putting in a similar rooftop bar in Jenks.
Foxy Taco's is already open? That's awesome. Seems like they poked along on that one too. Today is a great day for Cherry street!
Previous tenant was Crushed Red... you're right that they were in a tough location to succeed. I did enjoy it though, healthy options.
We went to Foxy Tacos this weekend... ate out on the patio and really enjoyed it. Crushed Red really underutilized the space, I think it'll be very busy for sports and nice days.
SideCar looks great! Can't wait to check it out... feel like that building in general took a really long time.
Quote from: shavethewhales on October 12, 2021, 12:58:31 PM
I feel like they have redesigned that condo tower 6 times now. They have been talking about that property since I was a kid, but nothing ever gets off the ground. Those floor heights are something else. Must be some two story high ceilings on the upper levels.
I think you are thinking of the other parcel that Coury owns at 21st & Boston, and is currently for sale. Originally proposed as a boutique hotel called The Maple (below) I think this would be a good condo site.
(https://courynetwork.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/sites/2/2018/07/tulsa-hotel-maple.jpg)
Quote from: SXSW on October 11, 2021, 08:36:23 PM
Some interior pics of Sidecar at 15th & St Louis
Apparently they are open and the loud music from the roof is not a big hit with the neighborhood.
Quote from: SXSW on October 03, 2021, 09:34:59 PM
Anyone heard anything about new condos planned for 21st & Main? This is the site adjacent to the bank. This is all I could find:
(https://steve-easley.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/image3-980x552.jpg)
https://steve-easley.com/project/21-main-condos/ (https://steve-easley.com/project/21-main-condos/)
I think this site is still for sale - probably just a concept plan. Condo's have been proposed there so many times and seems like the neighborhood has a lot of sway there and aren't going to allow any type of high-rise to be built. All the houses on the south side of those lots are in the million dollar range now in value. The sites are zoned for density so it's always baffled me a bit in that there's probably plenty you could already do there without needing to get a zoning change or any variances so I don't understand why those sites haven't developed yet. They're really not that expensive anymore compared to what land prices are going for elsewhere - they were way over priced for a while but the market has caught up to them.
New project that has passed council:
Small building rehab into retail at 18th & Cincinnati - nice looking project
http://www.tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/cases/Z-7626.pdf
(https://i.ibb.co/zJW804Y/18th-Cinci-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/QD2Lr3x/18th-Cinci-2.jpg)
I know Elliot Nelson is part of the project at 18th & Cincinnati, anyone know what kind of concept will be going in here and their timeline for construction?
Hoping this helps spur redevelopment of the old Louisianne building site that was torn down last year. That would be the perfect spot for a restaurant/bar with a patio that connects directly to the MV Trail. That patio would kill it on nice days.
^^Yes, we discussed that one on the last page when it was proposed. Good to hear it passed. That one parallel space is funny though.
Elliot has so many projects going on right now. This, Santa Fe Square, El Guapo's, and who knows what else. That's just Tulsa too. Wonder how much stuff they are still developing in LR and OKC.
I wish that other trailside project had taken off. If that proposal couldn't grow legs, it means the area still has a wait until there's enough interest to really take off. This development will certainly help, but there's still a general lack of cohesion to the area and other districts are already bigger and more popular. The trail helps set this area apart. If the city invested in some placemaking around the trail, it would help move things along. Make the trail/road crossing at 18th St. really big and flash, with maybe a large sign or something going over the road. Maybe some public art around the trail in this area or something.
Quote from: shavethewhales on October 25, 2021, 02:01:36 PM
^^Yes, we discussed that one on the last page when it was proposed. Good to hear it passed. That one parallel space is funny though.
Elliot has so many projects going on right now. This, Santa Fe Square, El Guapo's, and who knows what else. That's just Tulsa too. Wonder how much stuff they are still developing in LR and OKC.
I wish that other trailside project had taken off. If that proposal couldn't grow legs, it means the area still has a wait until there's enough interest to really take off. This development will certainly help, but there's still a general lack of cohesion to the area and other districts are already bigger and more popular. The trail helps set this area apart. If the city invested in some placemaking around the trail, it would help move things along. Make the trail/road crossing at 18th St. really big and flash, with maybe a large sign or something going over the road. Maybe some public art around the trail in this area or something.
I think the Knoll at Maple Ridge was just bad timing trying to get off the ground in 2020. That site is great too with the big trees but is more tucked away. I'd like to see another brewery with outdoor seating in this area with American Solera gone, that could really help draw people in and be a popular spot to stop along the trail. The MV trail should see even more use once they finish the Pedestrian Bridge. That is a gem that connects so many different neighborhoods and is still really under-utilized.
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/04/0049bee6-f949-5692-b845-ed62fd7a9780/5ca52c2298897.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C687)
You already have TXMZ, FarmBar, Dalessandro's and Burnco that are popular places along with live music venues/bars like Venue Shrine and Mercury Lounge. Doubleshot moving over to Boulder took away a lot of the morning/afternoon crowd. Agree the area needs some city investment in a streetscape and roundabout at 18th & Boston. It has a true neighborhood feel unlike any other district in Tulsa which is also its downfall because it's kind of hidden.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on October 25, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
I think this site is still for sale - probably just a concept plan. Condo's have been proposed there so many times and seems like the neighborhood has a lot of sway there and aren't going to allow any type of high-rise to be built. All the houses on the south side of those lots are in the million dollar range now in value. The sites are zoned for density so it's always baffled me a bit in that there's probably plenty you could already do there without needing to get a zoning change or any variances so I don't understand why those sites haven't developed yet. They're really not that expensive anymore compared to what land prices are going for elsewhere - they were way over priced for a while but the market has caught up to them.
Something that looks like The Maple that was proposed for 21st & Boston but maybe 4 stories instead of 7 would probably work. You are on 21st which is a detractor but would have views across the park and skyline.
Last I checked the 21st & Boston property was for sale for $2.2M which is ~$1.5M/acre. You would have to have a decent amount of condo or apartment density to be able to make that pencil.
Quote from: SXSW on October 25, 2021, 04:41:19 PM
Something that looks like The Maple that was proposed for 21st & Boston but maybe 4 stories instead of 7 would probably work. You are on 21st which is a detractor but would have views across the park and skyline.
Last I checked the 21st & Boston property was for sale for $2.2M which is ~$1.5M/acre. You would have to have a decent amount of condo or apartment density to be able to make that pencil.
SW corner of 21st & Boston? Tulsa County Assessor has that at a fair market value of $931,800.
In other BREAKING NEWS: The Burnt out shed next to the Subway on Cherry St has been removed. The entire site is an eye sore... on one of Tulsa's premier streets. Hope it's reworked here soon!
Brilliant. Only took them 2 years, and that thing was looking dumpy for years before then anyway. Looking back through street view, it's interesting how that little building has changed. I didn't realize they used to keep bars on the windows.
Any other signs of progress with the rest of the building?
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 25, 2021, 08:08:29 PM
SW corner of 21st & Boston? Tulsa County Assessor has that at a fair market value of $931,800.
I can't say I've ever seen any commercial site in town sell for anywhere near to the Assessor's valuation. Probably one reason so many small business owners can't buy their buildings - banks, even SBA ones, will only loan to that valuation which is typically 50% of the actual selling price. For example - the old Animal Aid of Tulsa building on 15th has a valuation of $155,000 but is currently listed on Loopnet for $495,000. Or 556 N Denver - super cool old building - valuation is $299,000 but is listed for $850,000.
A fence is now up around the gas station at 15th and Utica so as I suspected it's coming down too like the stuff nearby. The only thing left on that corner will be Chelsea Gallery. Again, there better be a plan in place, and not just expansion of "the lot."
Quote from: DowntownDan on October 28, 2021, 09:22:59 AM
A fence is now up around the gas station at 15th and Utica so as I suspected it's coming down too like the stuff nearby. The only thing left on that corner will be Chelsea Gallery. Again, there better be a plan in place, and not just expansion of "the lot."
Interesting, anyone know if anything has been submitted to the city as far as a development plan or PUD? Half the site is zoned CH along 15th and OH along 14th. It's also in a federal Opportunity Zone.
I've like all of the projects Bumgarner has developed in Midtown so hoping this is another quality piece of infill.
Quote from: SXSW on October 28, 2021, 09:33:48 AM
Interesting, anyone know if anything has been submitted to the city as far as a development plan or PUD? Half the site is zoned CH along 15th and OH along 14th. It's also in a federal Opportunity Zone.
I've like all of the projects Bumgarner has developed in Midtown so hoping this is another quality piece of infill.
From what I had heard years ago was he has plans for about 400k sq ft of office (spread out on that lot you're talking maybe 4-5 stories possibly) and that he'd only build on those lots with a prelease. I don't think at that point there were really even any specific drawings/plans for what it'd look like but it was known in the brokerage community he would entertain something like that. Likely some of those conceptual ideas for the site has changed between then and now some, but I'd bet the buildings are being cleared to drop the assessment and tax burden so he can hold on to the site for while. I doubt there is specific plans to break ground on anything soon if he's still focused on that site being office.
It's a perfect spot for mixed-use +. It could contain office, retail, dining, apartments, hotel, parking garage usable by all of Cherry Street. I really think a hotel would do well, considering that all of our hotels seem to be downtown or south of I-44.
Quote from: DowntownDan on October 28, 2021, 01:52:24 PM
It's a perfect spot for mixed-use +. It could contain office, retail, dining, apartments, hotel, parking garage usable by all of Cherry Street. I really think a hotel would do well, considering that all of our hotels seem to be downtown or south of I-44.
This site IMO is the second best large infill site in midtown. #1 being 21st & Utica (the old H&P site) and #3 is 31st & Peoria where Brookside31 was proposed.
Quote from: DowntownDan on October 28, 2021, 01:52:24 PM
It's a perfect spot for mixed-use +. It could contain office, retail, dining, apartments, hotel, parking garage usable by all of Cherry Street. I really think a hotel would do well, considering that all of our hotels seem to be downtown or south of I-44.
Would a hotel really be successful here or is it mostly local traffic?
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 29, 2021, 01:32:07 AM
Would a hotel really be successful here or is it mostly local traffic?
I do, I think one here and another in Utica Square would do really well. I could see something like a Kimpton type brand on this site do really well. Bit higher end and something that you see go in neighborhoods like Cherry Street. The vacant lot on the NW corner of Utica/21st have always thought would be a good site for a 5 star hotel and condos above (think Utica Place but instead of office and condos it's a small hotel). Probably one of the only sites in Oklahoma that might be able to convince a full five star hotel brand to join on (key word: might).
There's probably need for a 3-3.5 star hotel somewhere around here too, probably would be better on some of the vacant lots around Hillcrest and could serve as a Route 66 hotel too. There's a ton of hotel demand with hospitals from family members who would probably rather get a hotel in walking distance versus sleeping in the room with people overnight or driving all the way back home for the night or people who might have an early surgery/procedure that don't live super close you can get a room next door and be 5 mins from the hospital in the morning. Baylor Hospital in East Dallas has two hotels, an Element Hotel and one right on the campus which is a Home2Suites by Hilton that I think would do really well next to Hillcrest that pretty much just serves the hospital. It's walkable to Deep Ellum but if you're looking for a hotel to party in that area you aren't going to stay there. That Baylor campus is probably a bit smaller than Hillcrest/St. John's if they were combined.
Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on October 26, 2021, 10:40:36 AM
In other BREAKING NEWS: The Burnt out shed next to the Subway on Cherry St has been removed. The entire site is an eye sore... on one of Tulsa's premier streets. Hope it's reworked here soon!
(http://www.bughaus.com/Tulsanow/5sbycy.jpg)
;D
The gas station on the corner of 15th and Utica has been torn down... not sure what the plan is for the site, but they've gone pretty quickly on the tear down.
The CVS announcement of closing 900 stores makes me wonder about that location. I know it's close to the hospitals, but it has always been pretty empty when I've gone by (admittedly I only go by occasionally at night).
Weird that this area isn't more of a target for major development. Would be a great place for a hotel and chain restaurants if nothing else. Highway + hospitals + cherry street should make it as prime real estate for business as any place in the metro.
The Peoria bridge over Crow Creek will be rebuilt over the next several months. In addition to a new bridge it will have wider sidewalks on each side. Not sure if it includes any kind of pedestrian underpass
https://www.newson6.com/story/619bc84b730b3b0bf29cf153/lane-closure-begin-ahead-of-repair-project-on-south-peoria-ave-bridge-over-crow-creek (https://www.newson6.com/story/619bc84b730b3b0bf29cf153/lane-closure-begin-ahead-of-repair-project-on-south-peoria-ave-bridge-over-crow-creek)
Quote from: shavethewhales on November 22, 2021, 11:00:53 AM
The CVS announcement of closing 900 stores makes me wonder about that location. I know it's close to the hospitals, but it has always been pretty empty when I've gone by (admittedly I only go by occasionally at night).
Weird that this area isn't more of a target for major development. Would be a great place for a hotel and chain restaurants if nothing else. Highway + hospitals + cherry street should make it as prime real estate for business as any place in the metro.
This is why parking requirements are such a ridiculous thing - CVS/Walgreens get grouped in with other retail and pharmacies never have 'rush' periods outside of the drive throughs maybe after 5pm. Even the highest grossing CVS/Walgreen's probably don't need more than 15-20 parking spaces during the busier time periods, yet on a prime corner in Tulsa they built 50+ spaces that are 80-90% empty 100% of the time. Generally with pharmacies its a steady business through most of the day and so while they don't ever look 'busy' they have a continuous stream of customers pretty much all day long that spend 5-10 minutes in the store maximum.
Reason this area hasn't seen more redevelopment is mainly Bumgarner, he's being a speculator versus and active developer. He's content knocking down structures to reduce his property tax bill and just sitting on the land knowing that each year it just becomes more valuable. We shouldn't allow developers to reduce their tax burden by knocking down properties like this - main reason why we have so many parking lots downtown too with no rush to redevelop.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on November 28, 2021, 01:47:43 PM
This is why parking requirements are such a ridiculous thing - CVS/Walgreens get grouped in with other retail and pharmacies never have 'rush' periods outside of the drive throughs maybe after 5pm. Even the highest grossing CVS/Walgreen's probably don't need more than 15-20 parking spaces during the busier time periods, yet on a prime corner in Tulsa they built 50+ spaces that are 80-90% empty 100% of the time. Generally with pharmacies its a steady business through most of the day and so while they don't ever look 'busy' they have a continuous stream of customers pretty much all day long that spend 5-10 minutes in the store maximum.
Reason this area hasn't seen more redevelopment is mainly Bumgarner, he's being a speculator versus and active developer. He's content knocking down structures to reduce his property tax bill and just sitting on the land knowing that each year it just becomes more valuable. We shouldn't allow developers to reduce their tax burden by knocking down properties like this - main reason why we have so many parking lots downtown too with no rush to redevelop.
Is there a way to combat this? As in do other cities have a mechanism that prevents demolition to reduce property taxes?
Quote from: SXSW on November 28, 2021, 04:00:26 PM
Is there a way to combat this? As in do other cities have a mechanism that prevents demolition to reduce property taxes?
There's been places that have looked into specific land taxes to combat that in urban areas of cities, but generally developers and property owners have too much local power - I can't really think of anywhere that has passed anything that has been successful in combating this.
It could be as simple as locking assessments even if structures are demolished if the structures are not considered a hazard instead of establishing some sort of extra 'vacant land' tax. So then there'd be less reason to remove structures because they would not get any benefits on property taxes. Not sure if something like that would ever get much consideration from city officials though even if it's in the best interest of everyone. Letting speculators remove things from our tax base while sitting on appreciating land is kind of ridiculous to me. The county assessors could also start doing a better job at assessing land much closer to market value too after structures are removed, generally vacant land is one of the most under appraised type of property anywhere in the US by local assessor offices.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on November 28, 2021, 04:18:57 PM
There's been places that have looked into specific land taxes to combat that in urban areas of cities, but generally developers and property owners have too much local power - I can't really think of anywhere that has passed anything that has been successful in combating this.
It could be as simple as locking assessments even if structures are demolished if the structures are not considered a hazard instead of establishing some sort of extra 'vacant land' tax. So then there'd be less reason to remove structures because they would not get any benefits on property taxes. Not sure if something like that would ever get much consideration from city officials though even if it's in the best interest of everyone. Letting speculators remove things from our tax base while sitting on appreciating land is kind of ridiculous to me. The county assessors could also start doing a better job at assessing land much closer to market value too after structures are removed, generally vacant land is one of the most under appraised type of property anywhere in the US by local assessor offices.
Probably won't fly but.... consider lots with torn down buildings more valuable than before since now anything could be built without the expense of catching up to building codes and not doing the demolition which has already been done. Zone to permit parking garages but not surface-only parking.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 28, 2021, 10:30:52 PM
Probably won't fly but.... consider lots with torn down buildings more valuable than before since now anything could be built without the expense of catching up to building codes and not doing the demolition which has already been done. Zone to permit parking garages but not surface-only parking.
Blake tried that back years ago downtown. Downtown might as well not even have zoning because you can pretty much do anything you want anywhere. There's a lot of good to that but some bad - which is why you've seen things like Jackson Technical building a suburban style development. Blake tried to do an overlay downtown that would require buildings to be placed along the street to avoid things like that and I think he wanted to try to put a demolition component into it where it would make it really hard to knock down any of the buildings left. It got the typical response from so many developers here who don't understand how this would actually be preserving their investments downtown and make them more valuable. He got ran over and the overlay never made it past initial discussions. Typical "Constitution tells me I can do what I want" "Freedom!" "Property rights!" that kind of BS from a small few that were willing to sue over anything the city wanted to do. The same mentality of folks who just threw a fit over the overlay in Riverview, Tracy Park, Owen Park, etc. they just switch the argument to whatever suits the 'NO' position at that time.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on November 29, 2021, 10:28:30 AM
Blake tried that back years ago downtown. Downtown might as well not even have zoning because you can pretty much do anything you want anywhere. There's a lot of good to that but some bad - which is why you've seen things like Jackson Technical building a suburban style development. Blake tried to do an overlay downtown that would require buildings to be placed along the street to avoid things like that and I think he wanted to try to put a demolition component into it where it would make it really hard to knock down any of the buildings left. It got the typical response from so many developers here who don't understand how this would actually be preserving their investments downtown and make them more valuable. He got ran over and the overlay never made it past initial discussions. Typical "Constitution tells me I can do what I want" "Freedom!" "Property rights!" that kind of BS from a small few that were willing to sue over anything the city wanted to do. The same mentality of folks who just threw a fit over the overlay in Riverview, Tracy Park, Owen Park, etc. they just switch the argument to whatever suits the 'NO' position at that time.
I remember some of that now that you jogged my memory. Thanks for the details.
I would think something like. . . you cannot issue demolition permits until construction permits have been issued. There has to be an executable plan in place before something gets demolished. Doubt that would fly, but something to consider.
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on December 01, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
I would think something like. . . you cannot issue demolition permits until construction permits have been issued. There has to be an executable plan in place before something gets demolished. Doubt that would fly, but something to consider.
Mr. Suburbia here agrees for urban applications. We have the technology to build to Art Deco styles but not the desire or financing. :-(
I think Art Deco is far prettier than most of the modern blah stuff I've seen. But then, I'm an old guy.
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on December 01, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
I would think something like. . . you cannot issue demolition permits until construction permits have been issued. There has to be an executable plan in place before something gets demolished. Doubt that would fly, but something to consider.
Or a tax penalty on undeveloped land in certain districts. Plot X with Building Y - tax is $2000 / year. Plot X after building Y torn down - tax is $4000 / year with a caveat that you can't just throw a mobile home on something and call it developed. Or alternately - tax breaks for maintaining buildings. It's all only ever about the money for developers no matter what any of them say and it's the only way to steer them in any direction. When the tax is less on land with no building than it is with a building (esp if the building on the property will require so much money to make it usable again) then goodbye building. The city really can't tell people what to do creatively, aesthetically or otherwise - there's always a way around it but they can control these things from the money angle which is what they should be doing.
Quote from: tulsabug on December 02, 2021, 07:47:00 AM
Or a tax penalty on undeveloped land in certain districts. Plot X with Building Y - tax is $2000 / year. Plot X after building Y torn down - tax is $4000 / year with a caveat that you can't just throw a mobile home on something and call it developed. Or alternately - tax breaks for maintaining buildings. It's all only ever about the money for developers no matter what any of them say and it's the only way to steer them in any direction. When the tax is less on land with no building than it is with a building (esp if the building on the property will require so much money to make it usable again) then goodbye building. The city really can't tell people what to do creatively, aesthetically or otherwise - there's always a way around it but they can control these things from the money angle which is what they should be doing.
Just screaming "government overreach" if certain elements were trying to do that....
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on December 02, 2021, 09:55:41 AM
Just screaming "government overreach" if certain elements were trying to do that....
Then call them fines instead of taxes. The city, county, and state all the time add fines and licenses and such to this and that or make changes to existing fines and costs without any political uprising plus fines don't require any kind of vote. All the increases and changes for car tags and so on never even make the news. Have you tried getting a Title 42 on an old car lately? Tons of changes there making it extremely expensive and complicated and no one stormed the Capitol. Heck - simply make demolition permits of any building over 20 years old more expensive. The point is it's about the money - arguing aesthetics with developers gets nowhere. Arguing future value of something means nothing. They'll go in whatever direction their balance sheet looks the best - full stop.
Quote from: tulsabug on December 02, 2021, 11:44:38 AM
Then call them fines instead of taxes. The city, county, and state all the time add fines and licenses and such to this and that or make changes to existing fines and costs without any political uprising plus fines don't require any kind of vote. All the increases and changes for car tags and so on never even make the news. Have you tried getting a Title 42 on an old car lately? Tons of changes there making it extremely expensive and complicated and no one stormed the Capitol. Heck - simply make demolition permits of any building over 20 years old more expensive. The point is it's about the money - arguing aesthetics with developers gets nowhere. Arguing future value of something means nothing. They'll go in whatever direction their balance sheet looks the best - full stop.
Never have....the old car title thing....
I have the title to my old car, but it has dropped off the system and the process description the tag agent told me sounds painful. Learned never to let the tag lapse by 29 years again!
There was a beautiful old Victorian style house on Utica many years ago at 14th Pl. Couple of them actually. It was torn down in 'anticipation' of "something big gonna happen here" mind set. I have been in that house many times in ages long past, and it was a crime to tear it down as far as I am concerned. The people who did that should still be paying for that nonsense!
But at least there is a Cirque Coffee next to where it was, so there is that.... Nothing against them, I am sure they are good people. Just not a pretty building!
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on December 02, 2021, 08:37:42 PM
Never have....the old car title thing....
I have the title to my old car, but it has dropped off the system and the process description the tag agent told me sounds painful. Learned never to let the tag lapse by 29 years again!
I believe you will have a difficult time doing anything without a current title/registration. A friend has an old motorcycle with a similar situation that he cannot do anything with.
I have an old (1981) car that I bought brand-new but haven't driven in MANY years. I have kept the registration current (Black-tag, no insurance) to avoid problems when I finally decide it doesn't need to hide the trash cans anymore. It's still sitting on inflated tires. I wouldn't trust the tires to do more than move the car to a haul-away trailer though.
Quote from: Red Arrow on December 03, 2021, 01:38:28 AM
I believe you will have a difficult time doing anything without a current title/registration. A friend has an old motorcycle with a similar situation that he cannot do anything with.
I have an old (1981) car that I bought brand-new but haven't driven in MANY years. I have kept the registration current (Black-tag, no insurance) to avoid problems when I finally decide it doesn't need to hide the trash cans anymore. It's still sitting on inflated tires. I wouldn't trust the tires to do more than move the car to a haul-away trailer though.
It's not really a big deal but it's not as easy as it used to be. If you were the last titled owner then you can file for a lost title or do the abandoned vehicle thing. They take time and a little money but no big deal. A title 42 now really requires you petition the court to force the DMV to issue you a title - there are a few people who are doing this professionally as they figured out the bureaucracy of it - seems to run about $400 or so. The real bottom line is all these things used to be cheap to do but new fines and fees have made them a cash cow for the state and none of that required a vote by the people. The city can easily do these things in regard to buildings and since the current approach of zoning isn't working then they should try it. I know contractors here in town - they say the same thing - you can do whatever you want as far as construction goes and it's usually cheaper to pay a fine than it is to get permission. Maybe they should take notes from the health department - they don't screw around when it comes to permits, enforcement, and fines. Go build an unapproved commercial kitchen - see how fast they fine you and make you tear it down.
Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on October 26, 2021, 10:40:36 AM
In other BREAKING NEWS: The Burnt out shed next to the Subway on Cherry St has been removed. The entire site is an eye sore... on one of Tulsa's premier streets. Hope it's reworked here soon!
Hearing it will be a brunch restaurant called Hatch. They have this location and one in Jenks listed as coming soon on their website.
https://hatchearlymoodfood.com/ (https://hatchearlymoodfood.com/)
Very cool, Hatch will do extremely well there. It's unbelievably popular in OKC.
Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on December 12, 2021, 11:02:19 AM
Very cool, Hatch will do extremely well there. It's unbelievably popular in OKC.
Hatch is also opening a Jenks location that is further along. They are affiliated with Sidecar (same owner). There is also a steakhouse and bar called The Hemingway that is planned for the 1515 building. I don't know when they plan to open though.
https://www.thehemingway1515.com/ (https://www.thehemingway1515.com/)
What do we need to do get some decent Indian food in Midtown? I think we're good with steakhouses, pizza and tacos. ;)
I agree, could use a few more unique options.... The Hemingway sounds very intriguing.
Remodeling going on inside the Cherry Street Salata. Any news?
I liked the concept but their location was a huge waste of space.
Quote from: patric on December 24, 2021, 01:44:15 PM
Remodeling going on inside the Cherry Street Salata. Any news?
I liked the concept but their location was a huge waste of space.
I thought their was a sign there for IV Nutrition, a place where you can get a saline IV, for, you know, athletes, and not drunks.
Quote from: DowntownDan on December 27, 2021, 02:09:40 PM
I thought their was a sign there for IV Nutrition, a place where you can get a saline IV, for, you know, athletes, and not drunks.
I guess if your not shy about needles you might not care about getting a venipuncture in an Amsterdam-ish storefront instead of a medical office.
Its a shame they couldnt keep one Salata open but its not their fault, restaurants have been dropping like flies this month.
Quote from: patric on December 29, 2021, 10:38:29 AM
I guess if your not shy about needles you might not care about getting a venipuncture in an Amsterdam-ish storefront instead of a medical office.
Its a shame they couldnt keep one Salata open but its not their fault, restaurants have been dropping like flies this month.
Salata just picked a dumb location given how much of their business is driven by the lunch crowd, add in COVID with office employees largely working from home and there was no chance of it surviving given the rental rates on Cherry Street. They would have likely survived downtown or in another area that was slightly less expensive rent wise.
So the gas station and other building they tore down on the NW corner of 15th and Utica is being sodded, so no immediate plans, just a bigger vacant lot in a key location. My guess is most of it was just to tear down that wall where homeless people sometimes gathered for shade. Disappointing in so many ways.
Quote from: DowntownDan on February 14, 2022, 03:31:14 PM
So the gas station and other building they tore down on the NW corner of 15th and Utica is being sodded, so no immediate plans, just a bigger vacant lot in a key location. My guess is most of it was just to tear down that wall where homeless people sometimes gathered for shade. Disappointing in so many ways.
I'm still hearing this will be an office building at the Utica corner with apartments on Troost. Currently the developer, BAM Properties, is looking to find an anchor tenant and secure financing. The portion closer to 14th will be built in a later phase.
Reddit says that Hatch pulled out of the Subway cherry street location
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Seems so since there's been no progress still. Just about impossible to start a restaurant these days with costs and staffing issues all over the place. McNellies had to close down one to open their new Red Light Chicken place.
Quote from: BKDotCom on June 09, 2022, 12:00:24 PM
Reddit says that Hatch pulled out of the Subway cherry street location
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bummer that would've been great at that location. Maybe the group that owns Nola's/Kilkenny's (Watershed) or the one that owns Roosevelt's would be interested in doing something here. It seems like restaurant groups can shed a lot of the inherent risk opening up a new concept.
Quote from: BKDotCom on June 09, 2022, 12:00:24 PM
Reddit says that Hatch pulled out of the Subway cherry street location
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dang. That's the biggest eyesore in all of Tulsa.
Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on June 09, 2022, 01:17:56 PM
Dang. That's the biggest eyesore in all of Tulsa.
After the entirety of Garnett, all the empty car lots on 11th, & the 244 corridor.
Quote from: BKDotCom on June 09, 2022, 12:00:24 PM
Reddit says that Hatch pulled out of the Subway cherry street location
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I heard today they are still proceeding and it will be a 3 story building with Hatch as one of the tenants.
Getting the sinking suspicion that Prosperity Bank is building a standard drive-through bank on the corner of 21st and Utica. Really hope I'm proved wrong, as it could be a really cool corner.
Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on August 25, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
Getting the sinking suspicion that Prosperity Bank is building a standard drive-through bank on the corner of 21st and Utica. Really hope I'm proved wrong, as it could be a really cool corner.
Oh c'mon now - there is nothing cooler than a bank with a drive-thru (as us cool kids like to spell it). I mean - I don't know what you do for fun but making a deposit using a pneumatic tube is pretty much the highlight of my week. ;D
Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on August 25, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
Getting the sinking suspicion that Prosperity Bank is building a standard drive-through bank on the corner of 21st and Utica. Really hope I'm proved wrong, as it could be a really cool corner.
It is, you won't be proved wrong. I've seen the renderings and it's really disappointing especially given it's prime corner location in Utica Square. Another reason why I wish we had areas in town that required design review and more strict building standards.
Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on August 25, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
Getting the sinking suspicion that Prosperity Bank is building a standard drive-through bank on the corner of 21st and Utica. Really hope I'm proved wrong, as it could be a really cool corner.
Truly unfortunate. Blank slate to create a defining corner to mirror Utica Place and they build a one-story drive-through bank. Prosperity could've easily moved into a multi-story building and incorporated the drive-through. Demand for boutique office space in Midtown is strong enough to do another Utica East type development here. This is one of the best corners in all of Tulsa, eventually this will be replaced with a higher and better use.
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/d7/7d7735dc-baa5-11ec-9ace-074832aa98ec/6255ebd2cc803.image.jpg?resize=1024%2C512)
Well on the bright side (?) at least it's not another faux Spanish villa development. I just wish they had been more realistic with the rendering and incorporated some St John's employees standing outside of it smoking.
Also - from a roofing perspective - what a terrible design. One big dead valley - good luck with that.
The biscuit place in the old Qdoba spot has already closed. Tried it once and liked it just never really thought of it, plus our house is more obsessesed with bagels. Seems like it was open only a few months. And it's a chain.
Foxy tacos still seems to be kicking despite what I hear are pretty universal bad reviews. I went once and didn't love or hate it, which I guess is equivalent of a bad review since I haven't really thought to go back. Velvet Taco is pretty good, though I wish they had demolished the LJS and built something nicer there. I'll probably go there again sometime soon.
Quote from: DowntownDan on August 31, 2022, 11:19:18 AM
The biscuit place in the old Qdoba spot has already closed. Tried it once and liked it just never really thought of it, plus our house is more obsessesed with bagels. Seems like it was open only a few months. And it's a chain.
Foxy tacos still seems to be kicking despite what I hear are pretty universal bad reviews. I went once and didn't love or hate it, which I guess is equivalent of a bad review since I haven't really thought to go back. Velvet Taco is pretty good, though I wish they had demolished the LJS and built something nicer there. I'll probably go there again sometime soon.
I'm hearing the old Qdoba/Rise Biscuits will be a Summer Moon, a coffee shop chain out of Austin that has recently moved into OKC and Fayetteville. https://summermooncoffee.com/ (https://summermooncoffee.com/)
Foxy Tacos would be a great spot for something better than Foxy Tacos. Arguably one of the better patios on Cherry Street.
No word on when The Hemingway is opening. The same group is also opening The Bellview at 1336 E 15th by Nola's. They are also building out a space at 15th & Quaker and have a planned restaurant at 2nd & Kenosha downtown.
Quote from: SXSW on August 31, 2022, 02:48:55 PM
I'm hearing the old Qdoba/Rise Biscuits will be a Summer Moon, a coffee shop chain out of Austin that has recently moved into OKC and Fayetteville. https://summermooncoffee.com/ (https://summermooncoffee.com/)
Foxy Tacos would be a great spot for something better than Foxy Tacos. Arguably one of the better patios on Cherry Street.
No word on when The Hemingway is opening. The same group is also opening The Bellview at 1336 E 15th by Nola's. They are also building out a space at 15th & Quaker and have a planned restaurant at 2nd & Kenosha downtown.
I was shocked when Crushed Red tore out the bar on the patio. It was literally the only reason I went to Full Moon a few times (only for brunch since the regular menu wasn't good in my opinion). What a colossally stupid move. Foxy utlizes it much better but their food is mediocre. I'll give it another try soon, I know things sometimes improve over time with new concepts. Their track record is pretty good overall.
I haven't heard any news about Hatch on Cherry Street. This article indicates there will be three new restaurants opening in 2023 but doesn't mention Tulsa
https://kfor.com/news/local/hatch-to-open-3-new-locations-across-oklahoma/amp/ (https://kfor.com/news/local/hatch-to-open-3-new-locations-across-oklahoma/amp/)
Construction has started on Summer Moon coffee in the old Rise space next to Drybar. I've heard they will take over the entire patio out front for outdoor seating. Hoping they have Tacodeli tacos like the ones in central TX
So apparently the Brothers Houligans on 15th is closing down as a property developer offered to buy the building from them? News articles say they're planning to develop office space in the area. Seems like a weird place for that being right by the highway, but not in a convenience access way - more of an "oh crap - that was a big donkey truck going by" way. Wonder if the same ones are going to buy the old McKee building or what exactly is going on.
Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere else on here - I looked around but couldn't find anything.
https://www.newson6.com/story/63beb2d0dd97b50729738012/brothers-houligan-announces-closure-of-15th-street-location-
I was blown away by the office thing. 21st and the BA has quite a bit of empty office space I think, so I can't imagine that there's that much demand for this area. There is a coworking space in that area. Maybe they really needed some extra square footage?
It's odd, but if they bought out the neighboring buildings as well then it isn't a bad spot for a high profile office building. There's an on ramp to the highway behind Reasor's, and an off ramp just to the south. Its close to cherry st, mother road market, and downtown. Great visibility for any brand that wants to be visible there.
Probably going to be something smaller scale though. I think the main reason the Brothers Houligan closed is because the restaurant industry is in dire straits right now with food costs, inflation, and people are probably starting to cut back. It's especially hard for casual places that are supposed to be cheaper. I don't even eat fast food nearly as much anymore because it's so damn expensive. Might as well spend a few bucks more and get a real meal if I'm going out.
Quote from: shavethewhales on January 12, 2023, 11:29:19 AM
It's odd, but if they bought out the neighboring buildings as well then it isn't a bad spot for a high profile office building. There's an on ramp to the highway behind Reasor's, and an off ramp just to the south. Its close to cherry st, mother road market, and downtown. Great visibility for any brand that wants to be visible there.
Probably going to be something smaller scale though. I think the main reason the Brothers Houligan closed is because the restaurant industry is in dire straits right now with food costs, inflation, and people are probably starting to cut back. It's especially hard for casual places that are supposed to be cheaper. I don't even eat fast food nearly as much anymore because it's so damn expensive. Might as well spend a few bucks more and get a real meal if I'm going out.
Houligans' official story is their business is fine, but they were approached with an offer they couldn't refuse for the building. I guess we'll see when the assessor's office updates their records how believable that is. I can't say I ever saw the building going up for sale anywhere so it's possible.
The McKee building next to Houligans sold back in 2020 to a cluster of LLCs which appear to be local realtors (well - one of the LLCs appears to be - couldn't find much info on the other ones). I know when we were buying our building, our broker mentioned he and another broker had bought several buildings to speculate on - seems like a lucrative side hustle. I would think expanding the McKee building outwards over Houligans would be a better move and more in fitting with the area than building something new and tall there, especially with the limited footprint.
Quote from: tulsabug on January 13, 2023, 09:05:34 AM
Houligans' official story is their business is fine, but they were approached with an offer they couldn't refuse for the building. I guess we'll see when the assessor's office updates their records how believable that is. I can't say I ever saw the building going up for sale anywhere so it's possible.
The McKee building next to Houligans sold back in 2020 to a cluster of LLCs which appear to be local realtors (well - one of the LLCs appears to be - couldn't find much info on the other ones). I know when we were buying our building, our broker mentioned he and another broker had bought several buildings to speculate on - seems like a lucrative side hustle. I would think expanding the McKee building outwards over Houligans would be a better move and more in fitting with the area than building something new and tall there, especially with the limited footprint.
The building next door that sold was pretty much fully leased too, that realtor group officed in that building so that's why they bought it. I would bet they are the ones who are buying the Houligans building.
I wonder if they'd be interested in opening a new site somewhere on 11th or in the Pearl where rents are a bit cheaper and would still give them a midtown/downtown location. I've never ate there but they seemed to have had a pretty solid following and I saw a lot of Midtown people complaining and saying they won't drive south to the other location.
I could see a higher end office building doing well here - most of the offices along 21st and 15th are pretty outdated and tired. I bet they would snag a couple of medical tenants too, especially ones geared more toward cosmetic or dentist type practices.
I don't know how they'd get much more on there though unless they demo all the buildings and just scrap the site and start over. You'd have to add parking and there's not a lot of space with the existing buildings to add a parking structure in the back either.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on January 13, 2023, 11:31:13 AM
The building next door that sold was pretty much fully leased too, that realtor group officed in that building so that's why they bought it. I would bet they are the ones who are buying the Houligans building.
I wonder if they'd be interested in opening a new site somewhere on 11th or in the Pearl where rents are a bit cheaper and would still give them a midtown/downtown location. I've never ate there but they seemed to have had a pretty solid following and I saw a lot of Midtown people complaining and saying they won't drive south to the other location.
I could see a higher end office building doing well here - most of the offices along 21st and 15th are pretty outdated and tired. I bet they would snag a couple of medical tenants too, especially ones geared more toward cosmetic or dentist type practices.
I don't know how they'd get much more on there though unless they demo all the buildings and just scrap the site and start over. You'd have to add parking and there's not a lot of space with the existing buildings to add a parking structure in the back either.
There's a great place for an office building on 15th right over at Utica. Already razed and everything.
Quote from: swake on January 13, 2023, 12:29:53 PM
There's a great place for an office building on 15th right over at Utica. Already razed and everything.
Only problem is the guy that owns that property haha
Frankly, that site would be much better as a mixed use project. Retail, hotel, multifamily. A giant office building there isn't the best use of that corner. We don't need a repeat of the other three corners.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on January 13, 2023, 11:31:13 AM
I wonder if they'd be interested in opening a new site somewhere on 11th or in the Pearl where rents are a bit cheaper and would still give them a midtown/downtown location. I've never ate there but they seemed to have had a pretty solid following and I saw a lot of Midtown people complaining and saying they won't drive south to the other location.
The other location lacks the charm of the 15th street location, which carried over somewhat from when it was a neighborhood pub called K.L. Snoozers. Im not sure you could recapture that essence now, given the resident clientele of the QT that opened up a few doors down.
Quote from: patric on January 13, 2023, 08:04:48 PM
The other location lacks the charm of the 15th street location, which carried over somewhat from when it was a neighborhood pub called K.L. Snoozers. Im not sure you could recapture that essence now, given the resident clientele of the QT that opened up a few doors down.
How much of the charm is the location, building or some combination. I'm sure the appearance of an old building could be duplicated, building codes permitting, although it would probably be more expensive than a modern appearance.
This quaint little structure is now rubble: https://goo.gl/maps/oA4Nc9u2MZD2NLvBA
Kind of sad since it looked like something a creative individual could have had fun with.
Quote from: patric on January 27, 2023, 03:19:12 PM
This quaint little structure is now rubble: https://goo.gl/maps/oA4Nc9u2MZD2NLvBA
Kind of sad since it looked like something a creative individual could have had fun with.
That is sad. Too bad it couldn't be (or wasn't) relocated somewhere else.
Quote from: patric on January 27, 2023, 03:19:12 PM
This quaint little structure is now rubble: https://goo.gl/maps/oA4Nc9u2MZD2NLvBA
Kind of sad since it looked like something a creative individual could have had fun with.
The building next to it has had all it's nice original brick painted over by probably the same idiots who tore the little building down. Painting brick doesn't fix issues with the bricks or mortar, it makes them worse and accelerates deterioration - plus it looks like $hit. The "developers" in this town are just the biggest morons.
Quote from: tulsabug on January 28, 2023, 08:02:36 AM
The building next to it has had all it's nice original brick painted over by probably the same idiots who tore the little building down. Painting brick doesn't fix issues with the bricks or mortar, it makes them worse and accelerates deterioration - plus it looks like $hit. The "developers" in this town are just the biggest morons.
While many are... I do wonder if some of this boils down to things like parking minimums. If a developer wants to redevelop the other building it might have been necessary to demo the other for parking. I don't agree with it, but a lot of times you have to deal with what our terrible zoning code requires.
Some of it boils down to greed, other issues. Demoing buildings reduces your property taxes if you're just a speculator.
I do wish parking minimums, etc. would just go away. So many cities have done this and as much development that's happened downtown - not having parking minimums has been extremely beneficials. It makes buildings shared parking easier to do between developments/neighborhoods versus everyone having to try and do things on site.
15th Street is such a glaring bad example of trying to do urban corridors with "modern" zoning requirements.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on January 28, 2023, 12:46:17 PM
While many are... I do wonder if some of this boils down to things like parking minimums. If a developer wants to redevelop the other building it might have been necessary to demo the other for parking. I don't agree with it, but a lot of times you have to deal with what our terrible zoning code requires.
Some of it boils down to greed, other issues. Demoing buildings reduces your property taxes if you're just a speculator.
I do wish parking minimums, etc. would just go away. So many cities have done this and as much development that's happened downtown - not having parking minimums has been extremely beneficials. It makes buildings shared parking easier to do between developments/neighborhoods versus everyone having to try and do things on site.
15th Street is such a glaring bad example of trying to do urban corridors with "modern" zoning requirements.
Will the Planitulsa updates solve some of these issues for areas like Cherry Street and Brookside?
Quote from: SXSW on January 29, 2023, 04:12:39 PM
Will the Planitulsa updates solve some of these issues for areas like Cherry Street and Brookside?
I don't think it will - I am planning to push some of the councilors about parking issues this year.
I've been told the Planitulsa update will have some revisions to parking minimums but not much. Really on the main urban corridors (15th, 11th, 6th, 3rd, Utica, Peoria, etc.) there really should just be zero. Or at least say if you're building is under 10,000 sq. ft. you have no parking requirements. Something like that would help a lot for smaller infill projects.
Cherry Street's parking should never be replicated. We can't continue to have to tear down residential to facilitate commercial parking requirements. It would have been better for the city to come in an build a common parking structure somewhere that everyone could have shared instead of what has happened but requiring on site parking like they have will never allow for stuff like that to happen.
My fear is that 11th Street will end up just like Cherry Street where the more infill that happens the more and more it will eat into the residential on the north/south sides of the street to meet parking requirements. Cherry Street has probably lost at least 50 housing units over the years that have been replaced by surface parking.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on January 13, 2023, 12:43:50 PM
Only problem is the guy that owns that property haha
Frankly, that site would be much better as a mixed use project. Retail, hotel, multifamily. A giant office building there isn't the best use of that corner. We don't need a repeat of the other three corners.
Well whatever he has planned (I have no inside info), it can now go forward. Chelsea Gallery is selling and being torn down this summer.
https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/framing-store-on-cherry-street-will-close-at-end-of-may/article_768d3c52-bea1-11ed-8f89-5f0c5a822e54.html
Renderings of the new ice skating facility at the Promenade are up. And the website says opening in "Fall 2023." Looks pretty nice.
https://westreeticecenter.com/
The old Border's on 21st and the BA has a sign out for redevelopment but I can't read it from the street. Anyone know what's going there?
Quote from: DowntownDan on March 21, 2023, 11:23:56 AM
The old Border's on 21st and the BA has a sign out for redevelopment but I can't read it from the street. Anyone know what's going there?
Self-storage. I heard Fresh Market was interested but it was too large of a space compared to the old Borders at 81st & Yale.
Ugh, how much crap do people need? Every time I see yet another storage place open up it reminds me of George Carlin's bit about stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLoge6QzcGY&t=1s
Quote from: DowntownDan on March 21, 2023, 12:14:59 PM
Ugh, how much crap do people need? Every time I see yet another storage place open up it reminds me of George Carlin's bit about stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLoge6QzcGY&t=1s
They stay full and it's a less-risky place for people to park their money, similar to car washes.
Quote from: DowntownDan on March 21, 2023, 12:14:59 PM
Ugh, how much crap do people need?
Enough that 2 days after trash day you don't say I wish I'd kept that.
;D
Quote from: tulsabug on January 13, 2023, 09:05:34 AM
Houligans' official story is their business is fine, but they were approached with an offer they couldn't refuse for the building. I guess we'll see when the assessor's office updates their records how believable that is. I can't say I ever saw the building going up for sale anywhere so it's possible.
The McKee building next to Houligans sold back in 2020 to a cluster of LLCs which appear to be local realtors (well - one of the LLCs appears to be - couldn't find much info on the other ones). I know when we were buying our building, our broker mentioned he and another broker had bought several buildings to speculate on - seems like a lucrative side hustle. I would think expanding the McKee building outwards over Houligans would be a better move and more in fitting with the area than building something new and tall there, especially with the limited footprint.
Houlligans' / Snoozers was bulldozed today, so we may soon see. https://goo.gl/maps/wo2Qih7ckfriCVRB8
Quote from: SXSW on March 21, 2023, 12:20:58 PM
They stay full and it's a less-risky place for people to park their money, similar to car washes.
Breaking Bad reference...well done.
Quote from: patric on May 02, 2023, 03:15:00 PM
Houligan's was razed? Oh hell, my GF is gonna be mad...she lives pretty close and would go there pretty frequently. Looks like she'll have to go to 51st and Yale for that.
EDIT: Yep, I found it on the TW. They had also changed the name of the 15th Street location last time I went. Wasn't a big change, but enough to notice it for those of us that went semi-regularly. I remember when they had one out at 61st and Mingo for a time.
Snoozers. There's a name I hadn't thought of in a while. Spent many a Friday or Saturday night there back in 81/82.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 03, 2023, 09:56:26 AM
Snoozers. There's a name I hadn't thought of in a while. Spent many a Friday or Saturday night there back in 81/82.
https://www.fox23.com/news/bros-houligan-demolition-underway-in-midtown-tulsa/article_018c0694-f397-5e5d-bd61-1350458eb238.html
Quote from: patric on May 03, 2023, 07:53:05 PM
https://www.fox23.com/news/bros-houligan-demolition-underway-in-midtown-tulsa/article_018c0694-f397-5e5d-bd61-1350458eb238.html
IIRC, KL Snoozers was gutted by a fire before it became Bros. Houligan. I went to Houligan's the first time in 1992 and looking around, and the waitress looked at me and said something to the effect of "You must have come here when it was Snoozers. It was one of the first bars I went to as well."
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 03, 2023, 09:56:26 AM
Snoozers. There's a name I hadn't thought of in a while. Spent many a Friday or Saturday night there back in 81/82.
(https://i.imgflip.com/7kn24o.jpg)
/ sorry - couldn't resist
// if only I'd posted this on May 4th
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 03, 2023, 11:57:31 PM
IIRC, KL Snoozers was gutted by a fire before it became Bros. Houligan. I went to Houligan's the first time in 1992 and looking around, and the waitress looked at me and said something to the effect of "You must have come here when it was Snoozers. It was one of the first bars I went to as well."
Seth, the owner, named the bar after his cat. He didnt have insurance when the fire destroyed his business.
It was a very "walkable" neighborhood establishment.
Quote from: tulsabug on May 05, 2023, 06:28:29 AM
(https://i.imgflip.com/7kn24o.jpg)
/ sorry - couldn't resist
// if only I'd posted this on May 4th
It's like when Night Trips used to be Molly Murphy's. I remember doing my graduation dinner at Molly Murphy's.
Quote from: Hoss on May 08, 2023, 10:54:24 AM
It's like when Night Trips used to be Molly Murphy's. I remember doing my graduation dinner at Molly Murphy's.
I went to highschool with some friends that worked at Molly's. I think I ate at the one in Tulsa twice, and the one in OKC maybe two or three times. Never asked where the bathroom was, did not want to be part of the "Potty Train". There was another place like Molly's called Bobby McGees that I went to in Arlington near Six Flags. The food was okay but the night club at McGees was a lot of fun.
Quote from: patric on May 05, 2023, 10:02:47 AM
Seth, the owner, named the bar after his cat. He didnt have insurance when the fire destroyed his business.
It was a very "walkable" neighborhood establishment.
Wasn't Impressions just up the street from there? I seem to remember going there and then walking over to Snoozers afterwards.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 08, 2023, 06:29:40 PM
Wasn't Impressions just up the street from there? I seem to remember going there and then walking over to Snoozers afterwards.
Impressions had a distinctive solar roof on the NE corner of 15th & Lewis, where a lube shop is now, and a theater across the street. How far that intersection has fallen in the years.
Quote from: patric on May 09, 2023, 09:49:52 AM
Impressions had a distinctive solar roof on the NE corner of 15th & Lewis, where a lube shop is now, and a theater across the street. How far that intersection has fallen in the years.
I remember going to see some movie as a kid and sitting in the balcony at the Delman.
http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/8848 (http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/8848)
(http://photos.cinematreasures.org/production/photos/389696/1667322668/large.jpg?1667322668)
It's been interesting watching the redevelopment of 15th even before I moved. Utica to Peoria they did a good job, Harvard to the BA looks to be coming along, Utica meh, Lewis just looks like crap.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 08, 2023, 06:27:31 PM
I went to highschool with some friends that worked at Molly's. I think I ate at the one in Tulsa twice, and the one in OKC maybe two or three times. Never asked where the bathroom was, did not want to be part of the "Potty Train". There was another place like Molly's called Bobby McGees that I went to in Arlington near Six Flags. The food was okay but the night club at McGees was a lot of fun.
Yep, you always made sure you 'do your business' before you get there, lest you get embarrassed when you ask...
The old Subway shop on Cherry Street, which has stood abandoned since it was severely damaged in a fire in 2019, was recently leveled, leading to speculation that construction might soon begin on the Hatch Early Mood Food location, which has been rumored to be what will ultimately occupy that space.
Hatch Early Mood Food is one of the restaurants created by the Oklahoma City-based Provision Concepts, which also operates the Sidecar Barley & Wine Bar. Last year, the company opened both a Sidecar and a Hatch Early Mood Food in the top and ground floors, respectively, of the Village on Main, 161 S. Riverside Drive, in Jenks, as well as opening a Sidecar at the top level of the 1515 Lofts, 1515 E. 15th St.
Jeff Dixon, founder and CEO of Provision Concepts, said in an email, "We have been in discussions with the land owner of this site, but there have been no (letters of intent) or leases inked."
https://tulsaworld.com/life-entertainment/local/food-drink/cherry-street-subway-razed-hatch-early-mood-food-considered-at-site-for-new-location/article_61d1d466-15d7-11ee-8f8d-afba09c37591.html
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 09, 2023, 11:21:41 AM
I remember going to see some movie as a kid and sitting in the balcony at the Delman.
http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/8848 (http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/8848)
(http://photos.cinematreasures.org/production/photos/389696/1667322668/large.jpg?1667322668)
It's been interesting watching the redevelopment of 15th even before I moved. Utica to Peoria they did a good job, Harvard to the BA looks to be coming along, Utica meh, Lewis just looks like crap.
Used to go there quite a bit to see movies when young. There was a lingerie store next door, Massad's, and around the corner to north in same building was a small decrepit bar that became a biker bar over time. One of those sawdust on the floor to soak up all the blood type bars. (East of the intersection was another biker bar for a while called "Snakepit". Lived up to its name!)
And the first house north of that strip center was an old, old house that has been torn down now, right about where My Dentist is now. American Theater Company people rented it and lived there for a while. Some great parties in a beautiful old house! Also, one guy rented the little 'house' behind Starship for a while. Maybe a 10'x10' living room. Could get a lot of people in there for movie nights!
I noticed Foxy Tacos has closed on Cherry Street. I never liked their food and thought it was a waste of space. Great location and outdoor patio, interested to see what new concept goes in there.
That's unfortunate. I never made it to Foxy, mostly because they opened at the same time as Velvet and I went there. I heard most people didn't like them as much as velvet, so bad timing and location for them unfortunately. Probably would have been a big hit in most other places around town.
Quote from: shavethewhales on July 08, 2023, 12:01:02 AM
That's unfortunate. I never made it to Foxy, mostly because they opened at the same time as Velvet and I went there. I heard most people didn't like them as much as velvet, so bad timing and location for them unfortunately. Probably would have been a big hit in most other places around town.
I didn't think it was very good and they never fully utilized the nice outdoor patio they have on the east side. It could be one of the better patios in Tulsa with a better concept.
1525 Cherry Street LLC is the building owner. I wonder if that is entity owned by Chandler Hospitality?
Foxy wasn't good and it took them forever to at least try to make the deck useful. Did the restaurant owners pay for the work on the deck? I always hated that they got rid of the center bar. I wasn't a fan of Full Moon's menu, but I liked that deck.
Quote from: shavethewhales on July 08, 2023, 12:01:02 AM
That's unfortunate. I never made it to Foxy, mostly because they opened at the same time as Velvet and I went there.
I thought Foxy had been open at least a year before Velvet opened?
Anyone have any renderings of what will replace the demolished Subway at 15th & Rockford? I've heard Hatch is still planned for the ground floor with office space above, not sure if that has changed.
So, this building (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1405333,-95.9680781,3a,49.7y,328.76h,94.78t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stX6VgkwYpjMysA07GJd9bg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DtX6VgkwYpjMysA07GJd9bg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D319.05087%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) on the northeast corner of 15th and Troost just got torn down. Does anybody know what might be in the works for that whole stretch along 15th from Troost to Utica?
I think the frame shop finally sold too, so that entire lot will be open. If it's anything like what they're doing on the other side of the BA, you could probably fit 3-4 massive drive thru chain restaurants. Tulsans love massive drive thru chain restaurants, so that's my guess. Nobody will listen to calls for something better.
Quote from: DowntownDan on August 18, 2023, 12:35:59 PM
Tulsans love massive drive thru chain restaurants, so that's my guess.
Massive drive thru chain restaurants provide a vital service to the healthcare industry by serving food with excessive salt and saturated fats.
;D
Quote from: DowntownDan on August 18, 2023, 12:35:59 PM
I think the frame shop finally sold too, so that entire lot will be open. If it's anything like what they're doing on the other side of the BA, you could probably fit 3-4 massive drive thru chain restaurants. Tulsans love massive drive thru chain restaurants, so that's my guess. Nobody will listen to calls for something better.
Chris Bumgarner owns this entire block. I've talked to him and the plan is to do a mixed-use development similar to Utica Place but with office and apartments along 15th and a hotel along 14th. Cirque could move into the ground floor of the development or move their container to another location.
Quote from: SXSW on August 18, 2023, 03:24:34 PM
Chris Bumgarner owns this entire block. I've talked to him and the plan is to do a mixed-use development similar to Utica Place but with office and apartments along 15th and a hotel along 14th. Cirque could move into the ground floor of the development or move their container to another location.
All gone now, nothing left.
I cant imagine anyone short of a crooked politician wanting salty chicken so bad...
Quote from: patric on August 19, 2023, 08:02:34 PM
I cant imagine anyone short of a crooked politician wanting salty chicken so bad...
Uh... maybe most the population of the USA.
Sorry (well, maybe not really) for the attitude but I am sodium sensitive for my blood pressure. I cannot understand the desire for excessive salt in everything other than being a relative to the salt monster in the original Star Trek series.
I understand moisture control in cooking etc but really, an entire day's worth of sodium in less than a serving of almost anything at almost any restaurant?
Quote from: DowntownDan on August 18, 2023, 12:35:59 PM
I think the frame shop finally sold too, so that entire lot will be open. If it's anything like what they're doing on the other side of the BA, you could probably fit 3-4 massive drive thru chain restaurants. Tulsans love massive drive thru chain restaurants, so that's my guess. Nobody will listen to calls for something better.
I'm personally hoping for a Walgreens to give the CVS some competition.
While we are rightfully suspicious of the developer and Tulsa's inclination towards car-based development, this area is so valuable and dense that it would be crazy if they only put in a few drive-throughs. The ROI is there for a large mixed use development. Could still fit in a drive-through somewhere!
I'm surprised they haven't developed the parking in front of Nola's yet. Just need to figure out where to put a public parking garage I guess.
Quote from: shavethewhales on August 21, 2023, 09:35:08 AM
While we are rightfully suspicious of the developer and Tulsa's inclination towards car-based development, this area is so valuable and dense that it would be crazy if they only put in a few drive-throughs. The ROI is there for a large mixed use development. Could still fit in a drive-through somewhere!
I'm surprised they haven't developed the parking in front of Nola's yet. Just need to figure out where to put a public parking garage I guess.
15th & Utica will be a dense, urban mixed-use development. Now when it will actually be built is another story. ;)
Agree on Lincoln Plaza. I believe the owner is in California though so a local group would likely have to buy the center to redevelop those lots. And would likely need a big incentive from the city to defray parking costs and/or build a public garage like what the city is doing at Boulder & Cameron. It's one of the best development sites in Tulsa outside of 21st & Utica.
Rendering for the new development at 15th & Rockford. Hatch on the ground floor and Riserva Tapas on the 2nd and 3rd floors
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/2f/42f93ccc-7276-11ee-a7ef-a397d9ce5eb8/6537cf1133cd9.image.jpg)
Quote from: SXSW on October 24, 2023, 02:09:21 PM
Rendering for the new development at 15th & Rockford. Hatch on the ground floor and Riserva Tapas on the 2nd and 3rd floors
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/2f/42f93ccc-7276-11ee-a7ef-a397d9ce5eb8/6537cf1133cd9.image.jpg)
Looks really good. But is it better than a burned out Subway?
Quote from: swake on October 24, 2023, 04:04:58 PM
Looks really good. But is it better than a burned out Subway?
Better than a gravel lot? Yes (Burned out Subway has been gone for a while)
Assuming this gets built hopefully the old Lucky's building is next to be razed and redeveloped. It's such a sad little empty retail strip with just the liquor store operating. Something like this or the Roosevelt's building would be much better.
Quote from: SXSW on October 25, 2023, 03:46:46 PM
Assuming this gets built hopefully the old Lucky's building is next to be razed and redeveloped. It's such a sad little empty retail strip with just the liquor store operating. Something like this or the Roosevelt's building would be much better.
I wonder if that's WHY it's empty. Waiting for leases to run out. I don't recall a for lease sign there.
I'm seriously curious why anyone would participate in PlanIt Tulsa and the like when neither developers, TMAPC, or City Council give it any weight whatsoever. The Utica Corridor Small Area Plan is very specific that drive thru restaurants do not fit that particular area of town. And yet, TMAPC and City Council unanimously approve Chick-fil-A right in the middle of that corridor. I heard a City Councilor say there was no "legal basis" for denying it, which means that the plans are entirely meaningless in their minds. I think a City Councilor has every right to deny a drive thru restaurant when the citizens of that area said very specifically in a very detailed planning document that it was not wanted. It's not like the city is prohibiting fast food drive thrus, they are literally everywhere in the city. It's this one midtown corridor with some of the only relative density in the city that the people said to avoid this particular type of development. Yet, unanimous, with only a few delays to pretend they're giving the people a chance. I don't understand. I'll never participate in those planning sessions ever again, they aren't worth the paper they are printed on to the people who make decision.
Quote from: DowntownDan on October 27, 2023, 09:06:33 AM
I'm seriously curious why anyone would participate in PlanIt Tulsa and the like when neither developers, TMAPC, or City Council give it any weight whatsoever. The Utica Corridor Small Area Plan is very specific that drive thru restaurants do not fit that particular area of town. And yet, TMAPC and City Council unanimously approve Chick-fil-A right in the middle of that corridor. I heard a City Councilor say there was no "legal basis" for denying it, which means that the plans are entirely meaningless in their minds. I think a City Councilor has every right to deny a drive thru restaurant when the citizens of that area said very specifically in a very detailed planning document that it was not wanted. It's not like the city is prohibiting fast food drive thrus, they are literally everywhere in the city. It's this one midtown corridor with some of the only relative density in the city that the people said to avoid this particular type of development. Yet, unanimous, with only a few delays to pretend they're giving the people a chance. I don't understand. I'll never participate in those planning sessions ever again, they aren't worth the paper they are printed on to the people who make decision.
Good point.
Quote from: TheArtist on October 27, 2023, 11:55:31 PM
Good point.
So is the Neighborhood Conditions Index (NCI) intended to replace the Small Area Plans that we are apparently devaluing?
https://tulsaplanning.org/neighborhoods/nci/
Summer Moon coffee on Cherry Street needs to move or go with app based pre-orders like Cirque. Most mornings there is at least one car in line sticking out and blocking traffic.
Not sure its current status but this is a cool adaptive reuse project planned for 5th & Peoria
(https://www.freesearchitecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/5-Peoria-001.jpg)
Hole Mole is moving into the Foxy Taco space. That will allow them to have lunch during the week and brunch on weekends. Hopefully they take better advantage of that great patio space than the previous tenants. Bramble will remain at 6th & Peoria.
I never like the food at Full Moon but they at least made the patio useful. The pizza place wasted the heck out of that space.
I've noticed that the Indian Health Care Resource Center of Tulsa has started their phase 2 expansion. I just wish they didn't close part of 5th Place to make this happen.
Article (https://www.ihcrc.org/future-expansion)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/adb321_447e571a4d244c0da24883b4c97f92be~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_490,h_866,al_t,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/adb321_447e571a4d244c0da24883b4c97f92be~mv2.jpg)
Quote from: SXSW on October 24, 2023, 02:09:21 PM
Rendering for the new development at 15th & Rockford. Hatch on the ground floor and Riserva Tapas on the 2nd and 3rd floors
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/2f/42f93ccc-7276-11ee-a7ef-a397d9ce5eb8/6537cf1133cd9.image.jpg)
Work has definitely commenced on this project.
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on February 27, 2024, 05:17:47 PM
Work has definitely commenced on this project.
I drive by every day and it looks like they are putting in deep reinforced concrete piers into the ground. I didn't expect that would be needed for a three story structure. Is there something unique to the soil on Cherry Street for buildings over one story?
Quote from: DowntownDan on February 28, 2024, 01:26:29 PM
I drive by every day and it looks like they are putting in deep reinforced concrete piers into the ground. I didn't expect that would be needed for a three story structure. Is there something unique to the soil on Cherry Street for buildings over one story?
I know the groundwater is really shallow in that area. They had to install a permanent dewatering system in the 1515 basement where Hemingway is located.
Good to see more vertical infill on Cherry St
Quote from: SXSW on February 28, 2024, 08:30:01 PM
I know the groundwater is really shallow in that area. They had to install a permanent dewatering system in the 1515 basement where Hemingway is located.
Good to see more vertical infill on Cherry St
I agree! I hope something vertical and pushed up to the sidewalk will eventually replace the building where Cherry Street Wine and Spirits (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1405809,-95.9705271,3a,66.7y,180.24h,92.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOm7IWhpHUMpK0vAeFdA-1g!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DOm7IWhpHUMpK0vAeFdA-1g%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D251.28604%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) is.
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on February 29, 2024, 05:07:28 PM
I agree! I hope something vertical and pushed up to the sidewalk will eventually replace the building where Cherry Street Wine and Spirits (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1405809,-95.9705271,3a,66.7y,180.24h,92.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOm7IWhpHUMpK0vAeFdA-1g!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DOm7IWhpHUMpK0vAeFdA-1g%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D251.28604%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) is.
Considering Lucky's has been empty for how many years now and the only income-producing business still there is the liquor store I would think the current owner would need to sell for anything to happen.
Back in the mid to late 90's I remember going to an Italian place where Lucky's was. The person I went with raved about their calamari and she said it was the best in town.
It was like eating batter fried rubber bands.
Lofi pizza concept to replace Prairie Fire Pie at 15th & Peoria. Aiming for a late March opening. Ava June, a French brasserie concept, will replace Palace Cafe later this summer.
So with those two places plus Hatch, Riserva Tapas and Hole Mole there are going to be several new eateries opening on Cherry St this year.
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on February 27, 2024, 05:17:47 PM
Work has definitely commenced on this project.
Are you trying to replace single family housing with multi family housing? You probably don't realize how high rents are today.
Quote from: Tulsadude on March 01, 2024, 03:37:14 PM
Are you trying to replace single family housing with multi family housing? You probably don't realize how high rents are today.
What? This isn't housing. And it's replacing the Subway store that burned down.
Quote from: swake on March 01, 2024, 04:58:15 PM
What? This isn't housing. And it's replacing the Subway store that burned down.
What is the second floor for?
Quote from: Tulsadude on March 01, 2024, 07:20:22 PM
What is the second floor for?
This was talked about on the previous page post 707.
QuoteRendering for the new development at 15th & Rockford. Hatch on the ground floor and Riserva Tapas on the 2nd and 3rd floors
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=17044.msg339566#msg339566 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=17044.msg339566#msg339566)
Does anyone know what is going on with the Super 11 at 18th and Cincinnati? It's boarded up. Prior to boarding up, they were closed and had a cardboard / sharpie sign noting something about construction. Also on the window was a TPD posting from 5/10/23 about unauthorized trespassing which I assume may have been there all along and I just never noticed it.
Quote from: midtownlifer on March 04, 2024, 11:44:16 AM
Does anyone know what is going on with the Super 11 at 18th and Cincinnati? It's boarded up. Prior to boarding up, they were closed and had a cardboard / sharpie sign noting something about construction. Also on the window was a TPD posting from 5/10/23 about unauthorized trespassing which I assume may have been there all along and I just never noticed it.
The owners of Phoenix Cleaners own this property and are planning a mixed-use development there.
(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/IN1jR6ujr-LetqTDDxtoWTzUCs4ItLXX5p7a7HEJsL8/110/129-E-18th-St-Tulsa-OK-Image2-1-1-Large.jpg)
(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/dMqEOY_YwZNP8iRawn0tfaeglxthvOr0tP9y8ZngoYA/116/129-E-18th-St-Tulsa-OK-Floor-Plan-Pic-5-LargeHighDefinition.jpg)
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/129-E-18th-St-Tulsa-OK/29937800/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/129-E-18th-St-Tulsa-OK/29937800/)
Quote from: SXSW on March 04, 2024, 01:52:02 PM
The owners of Phoenix Cleaners own this property and are planning a mixed-use development there.
That area is starting to pick up steam. There's also the development across the street and a bit down Cincinnati. I can't remember the details of it, but I know it's been discussed on here.
Quote from: LandArchPoke on October 25, 2021, 11:35:30 AM
New project that has passed council:
Small building rehab into retail at 18th & Cincinnati - nice looking project
http://www.tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/cases/Z-7626.pdf
(https://i.ibb.co/zJW804Y/18th-Cinci-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/QD2Lr3x/18th-Cinci-2.jpg)
Ah, this is it. Elliot Nelson is involved. From what I gather.
Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on March 04, 2024, 05:34:41 PM
Ah, this is it. Elliot Nelson is involved. From what I gather.
It's a cute project and I'm glad they're doing something with those old buildings, but I can't imagine what businesses are possibly going to be able to survive there as that's been a poor location for retail since it was originally built waaaay back when. Maybe a location for realtors or something? Doubtful anything retail can last there. It would be cool making the old gas station look like it did in the 20s but be set up for EV chargers now.
^This project has already been completed. There are two McNellie's Group businesses that anchor it. I've been to Bishop Quigley a couple times now and it had a decent crowd both times. Seems to already be a favorite of the neighborhood. It's a bit more high class than Mercury Lounge, lol. There's still one space open for rent. Will be curious to see if they can fill it.
That Phoenix Cleaners development is surprising, but awesome. I agree that the retail tenant space will have trouble though, even with the added traffic to the area.
Quote from: shavethewhales on March 05, 2024, 09:13:58 AM
^This project has already been completed. There are two McNellie's Group businesses that anchor it. I've been to Bishop Quigley a couple times now and it had a decent crowd both times. Seems to already be a favorite of the neighborhood. It's a bit more high class than Mercury Lounge, lol. There's still one space open for rent. Will be curious to see if they can fill it.
That Phoenix Cleaners development is surprising, but awesome. I agree that the retail tenant space will have trouble though, even with the added traffic to the area.
There is critical mass building in the 18th & Boston area, which is great to see since it's one of the few (only?) neighborhood commercial districts in Tulsa not connected to an arterial street. It seems like a good time to revive the Knoll at Maple Ridge with a local brewery/outdoor seating along the MV trail
(https://ktul.com/resources/media2/16x9/full/1190/center/80/921bbafe-3ce4-4d67-818c-acb909f4ca98-largeScale_KnollatMapleRidgedevelopment.JPG)
I would love to see that development by the running trail. It reminds me of Katy Trail Icehouse in uptown Dallas.
Quote from: DowntownDan on March 05, 2024, 10:07:25 AM
I would love to see that development by the running trail. It reminds me of Katy Trail Icehouse in uptown Dallas.
Yes! Tulsa needs more trail-centric developments. NWA has several of these too.
Totally agree about the 18th corridor. It's a really interesting little area. It makes you feel like you are in-the-know like a lot of cool areas in cities like St. Louis. 18th has so much potential running through old Maple Ridge through underdeveloped parts of Downtown/Uptown, clipping Riverview and ending at the Riverparks. Enhancing the trail connection in that area is a place the city should splash some money.
Maple Ridge Grocer is the other restaurant in that new development. It's really good.
Quote from: ELG4America on March 12, 2024, 10:39:20 PM
Totally agree about the 18th corridor. It's a really interesting little area. It makes you feel like you are in-the-know like a lot of cool areas in cities like St. Louis. 18th has so much potential running through old Maple Ridge through underdeveloped parts of Downtown/Uptown, clipping Riverview and ending at the Riverparks. Enhancing the trail connection in that area is a place the city should splash some money.
Maple Ridge Grocer is the other restaurant in that new development. It's really good.
A coworker of mine was talking about that place the other day. He really likes it. I'll have to check it out sometime.
Quote from: SXSW on March 04, 2024, 01:52:02 PM
The owners of Phoenix Cleaners own this property and are planning a mixed-use development there.
(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/IN1jR6ujr-LetqTDDxtoWTzUCs4ItLXX5p7a7HEJsL8/110/129-E-18th-St-Tulsa-OK-Image2-1-1-Large.jpg)
(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/dMqEOY_YwZNP8iRawn0tfaeglxthvOr0tP9y8ZngoYA/116/129-E-18th-St-Tulsa-OK-Floor-Plan-Pic-5-LargeHighDefinition.jpg)
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/129-E-18th-St-Tulsa-OK/29937800/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/129-E-18th-St-Tulsa-OK/29937800/)
I really like the fact that they are keeping that Art Deco appearance of the building.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 18, 2024, 11:20:16 PM
I really like the fact that they are keeping that Art Deco appearance of the building.
Yeah you don't see Neo-Art Deco very often
Quote from: SXSW on March 19, 2024, 01:40:49 PM
Yeah you don't see Neo-Art Deco very often
There used to be a few homes in the area between Lewis and Utica and from Monte Casino to 31st that were built in that style, but the last couple of times I've been back I don't even recognize that area.
Does anyone know when the City plans to replant the rose bushes in Woodward Park? I went by there today and it was completely barren. I know they a disease wiped them out a few years ago. Sad to see it in this condition, it used to be beautiful with tons of roses and several fountains.
Quote from: SXSW on March 31, 2024, 11:05:15 PM
Does anyone know when the City plans to replant the rose bushes in Woodward Park? I went by there today and it was completely barren. I know they a disease wiped them out a few years ago. Sad to see it in this condition, it used to be beautiful with tons of roses and several fountains.
I've heard that they would have to replace all of the soil in the beds if they wanted to plant roses again. I'm not sure if that is true or not, but that would be an expensive proposition. I guess it was a major outbreak of Rose Rosette Disease.
Saw bulldozers clearing the lot at the end of Utica at 41st street. any idea what the plans are?
That's residential, right?
Quote from: DowntownDan on April 23, 2024, 10:36:48 AM
That's residential, right?
Didnt see any notice of rezoning so dont know... I thought that area had historical significance.
There is largish mobile crane up at the former Cherry Street Subway (Surely it has another name) project. Seems a little oversized for a 2+ story project. I'm a layperson on construction matters, though.
Additionally, There was what appeared to be utility work closer to utica where the Phillips station used to be. Is this a step towards the rumored project there?
Quote from: Jacobei on April 27, 2024, 03:04:00 PM
There is largish mobile crane up at the former Cherry Street Subway (Surely it has another name) project. Seems a little oversized for a 2+ story project. I'm a layperson on construction matters, though.
Additionally, There was what appeared to be utility work closer to utica where the Phillips station used to be. Is this a step towards the rumored project there?
They need the crane to erect the steel structure.
Not sure if that utility work is related to the Bumgarner project at Utica. I do know this a Legacy project for them and will be worth the wait once built.
Just did a quick count. There are a total of 6 backhoes of varying sizes at the site. Doesn't look like a full steam ahead yet, and there is still yet to be construction fencing. However, it's more motion than the site has seen in a long time.
I also have little knowledge of construction techniques, and don't really know why a three story building needs so much work. Before the huge crane, they installed what appeared to be deep concrete piers for the foundation. I don't recall either being necessary for the Roosevelts or Hemmingway buildings.
The work by the Bumgarner lot started further east on 15th street at Xanthus. I think it might be related to the storm sewer because my neighborhood has had basement flooding issues and they've been out there on and off for a few years.
Drove by the Hatch location. The Steel structure is up... it's much taller than I expected. Its going to significantly change the feel of Cherry St.
Now if Only the city would buy the lots for hideaway and turn it into multistory parking before the businesses flatten more housing like behind Roosevelt's and Hemingway.
Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on May 01, 2024, 09:08:55 PM
Drove by the Hatch location. The Steel structure is up... it's much taller than I expected. Its going to significantly change the feel of Cherry St.
I drove by this morning and was shocked to see the steel structure already up. I'm with you, it's much taller than I expected. I like how Cherry Streets is feeling more and more urban.
The picture looks like two stories and a third deck floor, but the steel going up looks like 4 floors.
Just some observations I have about Cherry Street and the new developments, coming from someone who hung out on occasion at Black Forest back in the early 80's, shopped at Sound Warehouse when it was on the north east corner of 15th and Peoria, and Mi Cocina was still a Piggly Wiggly. I remember the battle between the home owners that lived where the BA is and the the battle over where the south east corner of the IDL is. IIRC one of the biggest opponents was Vince Sposato who was the Streets Commissioner in the 60's and 70's.
Before I moved away in 1998 it was really good to see that area coming back to life and I liked the character that it had. There was a lot going on, but it had that neighborhood feel. In the times that I have been back since 2017, to me it seems to have lost some of that feel, and the newer 3 and 4 story buildings just don't fit to me. I know that where Smoke is, is an original building, and yes the Subway building wasn't really anything special, but another 3 or 4 story just looks out of place. It's also my feeling about the area of 33rd and Peoria where the BOk building is that there have been 4 to 5 story buildings proposed. To me it just doesn't fit.
I guess just being a curmudgeon, it just seems to have lost something to me.
The lack of landscaping during the Cherry Street street scape project completed a couple years ago continues to be a huge missed opportunity. Maybe they could add some raised planters in some areas but it would need to be a coordinated effort by the local business org.
Quote from: DowntownDan on April 23, 2024, 10:36:48 AM
That's residential, right?
Its a huge footprint. Im understanding it was the site of Tulsa's first post office?
Quote from: patric on May 05, 2024, 10:25:40 AM
Its a huge footprint. Im understanding it was the site of Tulsa's first post office?
I think that honor goes to the corner of E. 41st. and Troost Ave.
Quote from: Jacobei on May 01, 2024, 10:19:00 PM
Now if Only the city would buy the lots for hideaway and turn it into multistory parking before the businesses flatten more housing like behind Roosevelt's and Hemingway.
I've always thought the parking lots in front of Nola's/Chimi's would be a good location for a public parking garage with residential wrapping it and ground floor retail on 15th.
Quote from: SXSW on May 05, 2024, 06:03:11 PM
I've always thought the parking lots in front of Nola's/Chimi's would be a good location for a public parking garage with residential wrapping it and ground floor retail on 15th.
I can kind of see that, it might work, but I think it would tend to hide the businesses behind it, and make the front of those businesses less attractive. The front of Jason's and Chimi's would be facing a parking garage, it would be like being in a place downtown and your view faces the alley instead of the arterial street.
Looking at Google Maps, there are a couple of places that you could build a two story parking garage along the stretch from St. Louis to Quaker, but I can see the problem being the light pollution from a two story garage with the nearby residences.
The first near 15th & Quaker
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TJNW3Z6/0/FTM39wqj3xs3k4PgVKMDNf56RWhhX3pxwCzRbpnXp/M/i-TJNW3Z6-M.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-pzBLsP/i-TJNW3Z6/A)
The second near 15th and St. Louis
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DLRn8tW/1/SGPcndBxJJ25cp2WJGr5rwZzVRCtskQ7XXpdtzdB/M/i-DLRn8tW-M.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-pzBLsP/i-DLRn8tW/A)
Just thoughts. I remember dating someone that lived in a building either on Rockford or Quincy in an old two story duplex that faced east and had the alley on the west, when the Petroleum Club caught fire. We sat on a patio watching it happen.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on May 06, 2024, 03:45:52 AM
Looking at Google Maps, there are a couple of places that you could build a two story parking garage along the stretch from St. Louis to Quaker, but I can see the problem being the light pollution from a two story garage with the nearby residences.
Good shielding (eliminating the direct line-of-sight to the light source) is good practice, but that becomes harder to do when the source is greatly elevated.
Color makes a big difference because our eyes are much more sensitive to blue and green at night.
If you think PSO's bad choice of LED color is more "penetrating" than the amber hues we had before, its not your imagination.
Fortunately, amber and warm-white LEDs are just as energy efficient now as the blue-rich ones were 20 years ago when the DOE wrote the specs that PSO uses today. Maybe some thoughtful architects and planners can help the private sector set the curve.
Cheevers, a well-known bistro in OKC, is opening a Tulsa location on Cherry Street. It will go in the vacant Q Clothier and have an outdoor patio space next to Grassroots Larder.
Good Egg Dining Group, which owns Cheevers, also owns several other OKC restaurants including some of my personal favorites like Red Prime and Kitchen 324. I've been told they are planning to open 4 concepts in Tulsa within the next 1-2 years. I know for a fact they are actively looking at locations downtown and 18th & Boston.
Quote from: patric on April 22, 2024, 08:08:06 PM
Saw bulldozers clearing the lot at the end of Utica at 41st street. any idea what the plans are?
Tennis courts for Steve Mitchell (Argonaut). He lives just across 41st.