The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

So I have no link or anything, but a friend said she heard from an engineer friend that Ikea and Costco are going in at 145th & the Creek.  Seems a little south for that, you'd think by the Bass Pro Shop, or where the Target etc is in north BA would be more likely, but it could grow South BA significantly if true.  It's total gossip, but I thought I would throw it out there and see if anyone had heard anything.

A local Ikea?  Seems too good to be true.

Costco has already stated that they wouldn't locate a store here until the arcane alcohol laws (no ABLE -- pun intended -- to sell strong beer or wine in grocery stores) were altered.  Unless they've retracted from that.  That was the last I heard about Costco in Oklahoma.

They'd know of a coming change way before we would.  Maybe it bodes well for a change in the future and we can be welcomed into the 1940's by the other wet states.

I had a friend who said Tulsa could support an IKEA and COSTCO and Three Sam's clubs......oh wait....

Am I the only person that thinks that IKEA is awful?  The girlfriends I have had over the last decade or so seem to go nuts for it, but it just seems like particle board crap that's just slightly better designed.

  

Is there that much growth in the Tulsa area?  I mean I know Ikea can pull from a wide area, heck it would likely pull from OKC to Arkansas, but still their demographic seems to be younger people/couples, apartment dwellers, and urbanites. I havent been out that direction much lately but it seems as if new growth in the Tulsa area is fairly stagnant with the exception of perhaps the Tulsa Hills area, Downtown, and south Memorial corridor.  

If there's no IKEA in OKC, then there won't be one in Tulsa.  

EDIT:  not because OKC is super-awesome but because its demographics are better.

Not necessarily.  A place like IKEA appeals to wide areas, sort of like outlet malls.  An IKEA in Tulsa would probably take into account the NorthWest Arkansas market, making it overall larger than in OKC, which is really just OKC and its suburbs. 

Not that it would happen, because I would not expect an IKEA anywhere in our area.  Just saying if they really were looking at this state, Tulsa would be just as attractive to them, if not moreso, than OKC on the basis of the NWA market.

Hey, we got Whole Paycheck before OK Shitty did.

I suspect IKEA looks at zip codes of their mail order and in-store customers.  If a higher percentage were from the 741 zip code prefix rather than 731, Tulsa gets IKEA, not OKC.

IKEA no....the other one, yes.

But that's all i can disclose....for now.

I guess I should clarify . . . what I really meant was that I don't see Oklahoma getting an IKEA.  Especially when there are larger metros around the country that don't have one, I can't see OK being a target for that specific chain.  


EDIT:  According to the IKEA website, San Antonio, KC, St. Louis, New Orleans -- none of these have IKEAs, and all (IMO) have much bigger metro and regional draws than we do. 

Well, if your choice is between the poorly designed particle board crap that both falls apart nearly immediately and looks like crap and slightly better designed particle board crap that doesn't immediately fall apart and looks somewhat better, which are you going to pick? (Me, I'd rather have furniture not made out of plywood and particle board, at least when I can afford it)

I like the kitchen cabinets that IKEA sells.

Plastic - insist on genuine plastic.
 
 :D

You can have particle board covered by Real 'Murican fake wood veneer a la Wal Mart, or you can have particle board covered by the social democratic pastels of the Swedish flag. 

Ok I am going to show my ignorance here. What the hell is IKEA ? and more importantly. Why do I want one ?
Even in my advancing age. I see no reason to travel 100 plus miles to shop at a "Bass Pro" But I hear they are shopping destinations and people plan trips around that.
I don't even go to the one we have here. But I must be missing something because they built two huge Hotels right next to it. And if you mention ours. People ask. Have you been to the one in Springfield ? Uh..no why would I ?
I never went to the Tanger Outlet Mall when it was open, and never saw a need to drive 50 plus miles to buy scratch and dent drills and other items for just under cost.
So somewhere I must have missed the bass boat on this lifestyle.

DB, google it.

  I love Ikea.  We got some of these cabinets there for the Art Deco Museum.  They look very nice, were very easy to put together, and I challenge you to find anything else like them in that price range.  Quite the bargain. http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10119206/?cid=en%3Epc%3Ego%3Eproducts_search 

I did. And people will drive from Arkansas to shop here if we get one ?

Yes.  And Kansas, and Missouri and OKC.

Their kitchen cabinet systems appear pretty well-engineered and furniture I’ve seen from there, while not easily mistaken for high end quality still isn’t that bad.

I was about to post the same thing.

We particularly tend to get more "upscale" chains first.  The recent opening of Anthropologie in Utica Square is a good example.  Of course, we also had Wild Oats/Whole Foods for years before they opened a store in OKC.

Yes they will.  Before all the new stuff was built in NWA because of Walmart they all used to come over here to shop.  It was not uncommon to see a bunch of Arkansas plates in Utica Square on any day. 

Ikea would amazing to get in the Tulsa area. One less reason to have to go to Dallas.

I'll actually add a bit to that. . .

It's not better demographics, it's broader demographics.

The range between wealth and poverty is broad and there are very few economic gaps.  The racial make-up is representative of the entire united states if taken as a whole (percentages).  They population age is also well distributed.

Basically, we are one of the best places to do product placement and marketing studies because of our representation ($hitstorm from the Tulsa haters in 3...2...1).

In demographic studies, what you are looking for is a micro-population representative of your target market.  If your target market is the entire United States, Tulsa is an excellent study to represent that.

Example:  Dave & Buster's

Well there were lots of Dave & Busters before Tulsa.  We were supposed to be a test for the "smaller version," and I think that would be a success if they hadn't plopped it down behind a strip center, off the highway, in the middle of "I don't want to go there" land.

It seems to do a pretty good business unless I just happen to only go there when they're busy. Granted, I do only go when there's some way I can get free/cheap gameplay. Their sliders are pretty tasty, though.

But my point was D&B was here before OKC.

Wasn't Tulsa a test market for MTV and McDonalds?

Directv also in 1993.

Burger King back in the mid 80's tested mini burgers similar to White Castles burgers.

Tulsa was also a test market for Crystal Clear Pepsi. Sorry about that, America.

W

and peanut butter M&M's


Stillwater had "Dr Slice"

I asked some BA officials and they say there has been no contact with IKEA

So costco appears to be true?

Wouldn't hold my breath on that one, especially given the caveat they made.  If I'm not mistaken, that was reported in the Jokelahoman last year or maybe even before (about their desire to open one only if the wine/strong beer laws were changed)?

Wow, what the Hell were we thinking?

How is that business doing?  I haven't been.  I went to one in Dallas, and it was okay, mostly because I enjoyed the shuffleboard setup they had.  I've heard the Tulsa version doesn't have it.  I also have no desire to fight South Tulsa crowds.  If I want to drink a beer and play a video game, I'll go to the Max.

I went once before it opened.

I suggest The Max as well.

If there is no Ikea in St. Louis or Kansas City. why would there be one here. People in Stl. have to go to Chicago to get cheap yet attractive Swedish designed Chinese crap.

No seriously, IKEA is absolute crap.  Lets not wish for it the same way we dont wish for a cloud of mustard gas.

Edit: I've got to quit drunk TNF-ing

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20120403_16_0_OKLAHO234892

OKLAHOMA CITY - A group has filed an initiative petition that could lead to wine sales in some Oklahoma retail outlets.


The petition filed by Oklahomans for Modern Laws would allow counties of 50,000 people or more to vote on whether to approve wine sales in retail outlets of at least 25,000 square feet.

Sound like Costco?

sorry to be late to the party, but that area has been on planning for significant development for a while now.  Last I talked to BA mayor, and it must have been at least a year ago, big development plans, with what he could only say was going to be a "very well known/name recognition anchor"...for what that's worth...if the one dude says Ikea is off the list, fine, but I don't see Costco being the big draw this guy intimated either. :idk: They are widening all major access to that point.

Either way I think they are still on the right path....the Bass Pro area, whatever you want to call it, is kind of stale, and I don't think expansion could possibly justify the rent. I mean, what you got? B.A., North B.A., "New Tulsa" (lol)...Coweta?

The Creek loop there will have access to all of BA, Bixby, Jenks, Glenpool and Sapulpa...Glenpool alone putting in what? 6 new elementary schools?  By the time this development is complete, all those elementary kidz gonna be sucking of Mom and Dad's wallet for some prime, prime, disposable dollars.

Saw a headline today that Sam's is building a fourth area location in Owasso.  Are they trying to pre-empt a move by Costco maybe?  I have no idea.  Just curious.

From what I remember, Ikea only tends to go to markets with a population in excess of 3-4M? 

As for the pepsi thing, Tulsa is (was?) one of the few markets in the nation were Pepsi dominates Coke.  So I imagine this was a good test base, until we screwed up that crystal pepsi thing.

Yeah, but we seem to be leading on crystal meth.

They require a region with greater than 3MM and the region has to be the same media market.  So, unless they compromise you couldn't include OKC in a Tulsa store's region.

exaclty why we know our bucking soda pop.

I too heard something big is planned in that area and I know the mayor has been saying for over a year that the anchor tenant will bring over 1 million people per year.  Last I heard was groundbreaking this summer.  Costco and IKEA would be great a great addition to Tulsa, and Oklahoma in general.

Here is some intersting info on this subject, and this involves more than just COSTCO, and it was a move to privatize the sale of spirits, wine, and real beer, and take some of the regulation away from the state of Washington (home of COSTCO) and the initiative passed last year to get the state out of the sale of spirits and wine from "state stores" (which Oregon still has, and when I lived in Arizona, it was a free market enviroment). This was the step forward for WA to allow the market to drive the sales, and from my expirience in AZ and now OR, you don't see the evil MD20/20, Olde English 800, and various "cheap wine and liquors" sold in general retail outlets. In AZ the only places you saw the cheap liquor was the $1.00 bin of mini-bottles in the liquor department, and now for me after 8 months in Oregon, I have yet to see the evil beverages that people associated with ABLE claim to be the "root of all evil".

Funny thing, I drove past a liquor store in Coos Bay today and they were getting their delivery, and the truck delivering was a COSTCO truck.

http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/committee.phtml?c=9690 (http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/committee.phtml?c=9690)

http://factson1183.com/?utm_source=GDN&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=Yes1183Target (http://factson1183.com/?utm_source=GDN&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=Yes1183Target)

If you've seen some of the asinine things they do as far as regulating events, you'd likely agree with the assessment of ABLE.

I've hated ABLE since before I voted for liquor by the drink in 1984, and working as a bartender in 88/89 and having to deal with thier Gestapo attitude.

But the Austin TX MSA is less than 2 million but they have a store in Round Rock.

Interesting.  When I lived in Welches in the 80s the grocery stores like the Hoodland Thriftway had wine and beer sales.  I remember stopping off at  Fred Meyers in Gresham for a pack of Mickey's Big Mouths for the drive up the mountain. And then there was the iconic commercials for Rrrraaaaiiiiinnnnniiiiiiiieeeerrrr Bbbbbeeeerrrrr.   Loved those shots of the motorcycle heading up the side of Mt Rainier.  But that was a long time ago.    It would be nice if we could at least have beer and wine sales in the grocery stores.   Most of the stuff I buy would probably not be available in the grocery so I would still be spending time and money in Ranch Acres and Parkhill.   From my last trip to Texas and paying attention,  the selection at Tom Thumb and Albertson's was pretty lacking.   Lots of cheap stuff.  Cheap at least to me.  When I am down there I still go to Majestic unless I can find what I want at Central Market.   

Thought this was timely:

Welcome to Ikea-land: Furniture giant begins urban planning project
Published Sunday, Apr. 01, 2012 8:02PM EDT
LONDON— There are feelings you get when you enter an Ikea store. The vertiginous experience of getting lost in their craftily designed labyrinth. The surprise of wandering into something you hadn’t intended to buy. The discomfiting almost-warmth of a fake apartment. The faintly reassuring sense that your children and your car are in someone else’s hands. Then the odd realization that you’re really inside a high-security structure on the distant edge of town.
...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/welcome-to-ikea-land-furniture-giant-begins-urban-planning-project/article2388705/singlepage/#articlecontent (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/welcome-to-ikea-land-furniture-giant-begins-urban-planning-project/article2388705/singlepage/#articlecontent)

IKEA is NOT coming here.

Ikea is coming to Kansas City, so now we have two within 250 miles.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/27/3836143/ikea-to-announce-plans-store.html

 And just to further cement the notion that we're not getting one:
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/print-edition/2012/07/20/ikea-may-be-coming-to-merriam-village.html?page=all

Agreed they won't be coming to Tulsa any time soon.  But the 2 Million cutoff apparently refers to Consolidated Statistical Area populations, not metropolitan area populations.  There is an Ikea in Charlotte, NC, metropolitan population 1,758,038.

Wow, Charlotte is just like us but conservative.

Update on rumors of Costco coming to Tulsa area in the Tulsa World.  Interesting what this might do to efforts to change liquor laws.

Costco move into Tulsa remains just rumor

By Staff Reports and The Oklahoman
Published: 1/15/2013  2:27 AM
Last Modified: 1/15/2013  7:05 AM

Reports of Costco coming to Tulsa appear to be premature.

A deal reportedly is in the works for a Costco Wholesale Warehouse store to be built southwest of 101st Street and Memorial Drive. However, no agreement has been signed, according to commercial realty insiders.

Jared Andresen, managing director of the Grubb & Ellis/Levy Beffort office in Tulsa, said that while neither he nor his office are involved with Costco, he had heard that the company hasn't come close to any finalized agreement with any local landowners.

But he said he had heard the company is very interested.

"From what I understand, that is going to happen with or without a change in liquor laws," Andresen said.

Various officials had assumed that laws preventing the sale of alcohol beyond low-point beer in grocery stores would prevent the retailer from locating in Oklahoma. However, Costco Wholesale Corp. does operate stores in states with similar restrictions on grocery store alcohol sales, such as Maryland.

Costco, based in Issaquah, Wash., had no comment. Chairman and co-founder Jeff Brotman, who handles media inquiries, was unavailable, said Jennifer Spadafora, executive assistant. She said in an email: "Our corporate policy is to not comment on specific markets."

The eventual location of one of the popular membership warehouse clubs in Oklahoma is a foregone conclusion among commercial property development experts.

Costco is among a list of big-name retailers that are "kicking the tires and searching for locations" here - others include Cabella's, Nordstrom Rack, Von Maur and Ruth's Chris - according to Price Edwards & Co.

"While Costco is one of the more exciting retailers on the ... list, it appears that they may be passing on Oklahoma City for now," Price Edwards said in its just-released 2012 Year-End Retail Market Summary. "They've secured a site on South Memorial in Tulsa for their first Oklahoma store and may see how that store does first."

Some Costco fans also assume a deal is done or inevitable. There is a Facebook page titled Bring Costco to Tulsa.

"Costco is planning to build in Tulsa. Higher numbers on this page will hopefully compel them to build in Tulsa sooner," the page founder said in a post on Christmas Day.

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=53&articleid=20130115_53_E1_Report221472

106th and Memorial, but at this time there is no firm deal.

Tire kicking Sam's. I give this a 50/50 chance at this point.

I am really surprised to see a hearsay story based on a FB page as a TW headline.

I think they've given up on OKChitty.

At least they put the word "rumor" in the headline.  I thought the most interesting part was about OKC being left out for now.  Then again, as of now, so are we.

Makes me wonder if this will be a 'mini' Costco, much like Dave and Busters did in Tulsa when they passed initially on the OKC market.  Just to test the waters.

But I wouldn't hold my breath, unless Costco has capitulated to the liquor reform.  I'd be a little disappointed if they did.

Wake up, Oklah...errr.....ABLE.

I cannot imagine in any reality based scenario how market for one type of product would make a retail store of that scale forgo putting a store here if the rest of the economics pointed to a viable result.  That would be incredibly stupid, and I haven't really seen anything stupid out of Costco yet.  It could happen, but hasn't yet.

When they think they can do the business level at the margins they determine is necessary, they will be here quickly.  Liquor or not.

Just what I wanted  ....  more traffic on Memorial.  Put it somewhere else.

There's a big empty development at 121st & Memorial... ;)

That's even worse.   Ack!

That's also some low ground there.  I wouldn't build there with your money.

500 year.

That article was published in The Oklahoman the day before.  It was entirely written by The Oklahoman's staff.

Something to finally back up the rumors:

Costco looking for Tulsa location

By ROBERT EVATT World Business Writer | 0 comments

Costco, Gander Mountain and Container Store are among the brands that are actively looking to establish their first locations in the Tulsa area, said Ben Ganzkow of CB Richard Ellis/Oklahoma.

Ganzkow, speaking at the annual Tulsa Trends conference put on by the Tulsa branch of national commercial real estate organization NAIOP, cited the brands as part of his presentation on retail real estate.

Past rumors suggested Costco would come to the 101st Street and Memorial Drive area, though Jared Andresen, managing director of the Newmark Grubb/Levy Strange Beffort office in Tulsa, said in January that the company had yet to finalize a location.

When asked whether the company has plans for the Tulsa area, a Costco representative provided a standard quote from Jeff Brotman, co-founder and chairman: "Our policy is to not comment on specific markets."

Ganzkow said he expects vacancies to continue to gradually drop from its current level of 12.68 percent thanks to an improving economy and relatively little new constructio.

"We’re really putting a dent in our inventory," he said.

The two major new retail projects under development include the Vineyard on Memorial, due to be finished by the end of this year at 106th Street and Memorial Drive, and Yale Village, which has just wrapped up construction at Yale Avenue and 91st Street and will be the home of a new Whole Foods.

He did note several big box stores are getting new tenants, including Conn’s at a former Sports Authority near 71st Street and U.S. 169, Natural Grocers moving into a former Linens & Things near 71st and Mingo Road, Andrews Lighting at the former 71st Street location of Circuit City, and Tile Shop in the former 41st Street location of Circuit City.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/costco-looking-for-tulsa-location/article_7676a9de-3ce1-11e3-b8ea-0019bb30f31a.html

I've heard multiple times recently that the development, though not much of one with a Jiffy Lube, two banks and a failed steakhouse, on the NW corner of Memorial and 121st is a location that Cabella's has shown an interest in. Also heard that one of the hospital systems, no idea which one, had looked at the land on the other, South, side of 121st for a hospital.

Andrews lighting already built a new location on Garnett, moved, then the building went through a major remodel and it reopened as an Ashley Furniture Home Store.

Just gonna leave this here:
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/city-hopes-retail-incentive-policy-attracts-big-box-stores

I wonder how Dick's is doing?  I love that place, but I have a rather terminal fishing addiction that puts me in there at least once a week (71st store).  I am typically only one of two or three customers in the whole place!

Gander Mountain is very similar, at least from the outdoor sporting aspect.  I'm not sure if the demand exists??

They’ve got a lot of stiff competition, so sales can be a bit flaccid after a major rush.

http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=downer&play=true

I've shopped Dick's a couple of times, and haven't been able to find a reason to go back regularly.  Unless the item is on sale, I can almost always get it for the same or lower price somewhere else.  I also fish a lot, and for common tackle, etc, Academy is generally cheaper.  For things that Academy doesn't handle, I go to Bass Pro.   I've always thought of Gander Mountain as "Bass Pro Light", so not sure how they will fare in this market, either.  Now if a Cabelas were to come in, I think they could give Bass Pro a real run for their money.

I went there once - haven't been inspired to go back yet.  Kind of sad, 'cause I like the idea of going there...just haven't been motivated to do it.

I think they took a lot of flack over their position on rifles after the Newtown shooting.   It was more convenient than Academy, but I haven't been back since they took that stance.

This?
Dick's Sporting Goods Halts Sale Of Semi-Automatic Rifles, Guns Near Newtown In Wake Of Shooting  (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/dicks-sporting-goods-halts-sale-semi-automatic-rifles-guns-newtown-shooting_n_2321928.html)

FIFY.

Dicks

I agree.  The Cabelas brand clothing and shoes are of much higher quality than the cheap RedHead Bass Pro crap!

Some of the Red Head stuff isn't too bad. At least until recently.

3 years ago I bought some Red Head cargo pants and they have held up great. Bought some last year that already fell apart. Admittedly I wear them while hiking so they do get some rough treatment at times, especially on the Appalachian Trail and in Wyoming, but the older ones still look good and are holding their own.

The Red Head shoes will destroy your feet.  They are made of Chinese crap.

I tried some on once. I can't imagine wearing them as a daily driver.

This is great! Hopefully they will build new ones with giant parking lots instead of going into all of the empty big box stores that are scattered around!

Growth for growth's sake...rather than getting a clue.   Gotta get me more volume in a box!!


If for some unknowable reason, the state was able to grow 300%, bring in lots of new industry - even partially fill Mid-America Industrial Park - where is all the infrastructure going to come from?  We have almost doubled our population in the last 30 years or so, and even when I-44 here and I-40 in OKC get completed, we will STILL be 20 + years behind just on road construction - not to mention everything else that has fallen so horribly behind!!  And if 2011 and 2012 showed nothing else, do we not, even now, start to understand how close to the edge we are on available water?   If we triple everything, that becomes a serious mega-problem!

We are in luck. Unlike many other cities, our problems can all be solved with money, and not really even (a lot) more money, just more effective use of the money we're already spending. There are plenty of locations we could get more water from, for example. We could spend what we're probably going to spend on yet another streets package on trolley lines and have 15 miles of double track line, the equipment, stations, and the rest in a couple of years.

Many other cities don't have that luxury. They have no more sources of water, there is no place for them to put a train or a new highway, they have no more easily developed land. They don't have active and involved non-profits spending gobs of money making their cities better places to live. They don't have the massive momentum that we have in turning parts of this city into a place that attracts young people. We have so much going for us, but we seem content to not use (much) public money to help that process any further along. We'd rather, as a whole, build more roads and bribe a few more retailers into town with their competitors' tax money.

All that other stuff is easy, like you said.  Except for the water.  Most of future growth is going to be in Tulsa and/or OKC and suburbs of each.  And water here - going to 3 times what we need now??   I just can't see where it would come from.  We are all surface water supplies, and those were merely adequate through 2011-2012.  And central OK was in a huge mess...from Edmond down to Norman, they were scrambling big time, and those two years drought really wasn't the kind of stress that tripling the population/business etc would be.  Plus Texas is suing us to get some of ours...they have been denied so far.

Central OK, water needs to more than double in next 50 years.  By 2030, needs will exceed water supplies.  By 2020, transport facilities will be overextended.

http://www.okc.gov/utilities/rrwss/index.html

Gonna take a whole lot more than the kind of leadership we have had in recent years for us to grow even 50% from here....

Almost forgot...Norman has had to shut down about 1/3 of their wells due to excess arsenic (greater than the old 50 standard).  They get most of it from Lake DirtyBird....er, uh, Lake Thunderbird now.  Tastes muddy a lot of the time.

Whoahh there...   Who has "almost doubled [their] population in the last 30 years or so..."??

City of Tulsa population:
1950    182,740       28.5%
1960    261,685       43.2%
1970    331,638       26.7%
1980    360,919       8.8%
1990    367,302       1.8%
2000    393,049       7.0%
2010    391,906       −0.3%
Est. 2012    393,987       

The City of Tulsa has doubled its population in the last 55 years or so, not 30.  In the past 30 years or so (32 years to be precise), Tulsa's population has increased only 9.2%

Tulsa Metropolitan Area population:

1960    503,090       
1970    574,229       14.1%
1980    711,652       23.9%
1990    761,019       6.9%
2000    859,532       12.9%
2010    937,478       9.1%
Est. 2012    951,880       1.5%

The Tulsa metro area has almost doubled its population in the past 50 years or so, not 30.  In the past 32 years, the metro population has increased 33.8%.

He has a tendency to mistake his own opinion for fact.

Got me!  Couple things went wrong with that, leaving my 'guesstimate' way off.  Started with 1970 to the 2010 numbers on this page for the state population - not just Tulsa - the first lack of clarity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Oklahoma

Second fuzziness; went through the "ten, twenty, thirty" year thing in my mind and stopped before getting to 2010 (maybe said 30 twice?) - and then slipped a couple more years for the 2012 estimate of 3.814 million.  And when I did the guesstimate of doubling, I didn't use the calculator - should actually be 50% increase over those 40 years.  Playing fast a loose with the mental calculations...  I used the calculator today.


Which brings us up to date and back to the real point - and makes what I was saying even more problematic.  We as a state have grown about 50% in the last 40 years (is that better?).  And we now have water issues starting to poke through the curtain (allusion to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...").  As noted in a couple previous posts.

What would happen if we "got our way" and grew 300% in the next 40 years?  Or even just 100%??  The whole question and discussion of infrastructure of all types for this state is the 800 lb gorilla.  Couldn't find a comprehensive history of water usage for OK yet (still looking)...if anyone knows of one, would appreciate the link.  The results of the drought are still being felt here.

300% growth in 40 years would be an incredible mess, considering the "internecine warfare" we engage in in the state between different areas.  OKC will get the roads and big chunks of infrastructure, while at the same time suing the snot out of the Indians for the water in southeast OK.  Tulsa area will continue to suck hind **** for development of everything from education to roads to hat pins.  Texas will keep suing us to force us to sell them water, since they actually have been getting that mega-growth that we are lusting after.  And Arkansas just keeps on dumping their chicken carp on us. 

What I would like to do is get people to start to think about other approaches than standard "growth" tactics to help develop and improve the state related to incomes, standard of living, quality of life, education, healthcare, and yes - infrastructure, etc.  All the things we are #46 at in the nation.  First, we should stop the slipping of all those things, and reverse the trends/path we are on now.  It AIN'T gonna happen with "business as usual" method of just attracting some more call centers, big box stores, or ANY other minimum wage type businesses.  We are only a little under 4 million people, with amazing resources, people, and talent in the state...we should be as rich per capita as Dubai, or Kuwait.

In case there is lack of clarity up to this point - that previous paragraph has the big points I would like for readers to take away from this.

Don't get me wrong about big box stores - I would love to have a Costco here.  They pay noticeably better than the other big boxers, and treat employees noticeably better, according to all the surveys/studies.  It would be a breath of fresh air.  But they DID open their first store in a very much more progressive city and state - Seattle, WA, so I guess that would be expected more than something from Arkansas.  I put up the definition of "progress" elsewhere - good read for Oklahoman's of all ages.

But, good shot at trying to divert attention....will now work even harder to be more concise in the future.


As an aside, Texas population has gone from 11 million in 1970 to 25 million in 2010.  They passed our current population in 1910.  So if we really want to participate in the kind of action I keep hearing blathering about - the only rational choice would be to move to Texas - it's already happening there!
https://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/census.html

Awwwwww....how cute..!!!

I just came across this

Editor of Guns & Ammo forced out after publishing pro-regulation column
Jim Bequette issues apology, saying: 'I thought it would generate a healthy exchange of ideas on gun rights … I was wrong'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/07/editor-guns-ammo-regulation-column

Blowbama has his EPA goons closing the last lead smelter in the country at Herculaneum, MO.  After all those government agencies stocked up on billions of rounds of ammo....

Yeah, that will affect the price and reduce the already tight supply of bullets, but just wait till you buy a battery for your car!

I would definitely choose Costco over Sams but I'm not sure I'm willing to drive that far into South Tulsa hell for it.

Please stay away.  There is too much traffic already.  If people stop shopping along S. Memorial, maybe developers will go elsewhere.

You against progress now??


Luddite!

Not likley. 

In this reality, do unicorns fly or are the confined to the ground?

They are confined to the ground following a herd of turtles.
 
 ;D

I know but that is what I would like to happen. 

In the section between 111th and the turnpike I have been to very few places.  I have no idea why most of those stores have any business.  There is almost nothing I am interested in.

You have a pretty limited set of stores, dining and entertainment then.

In that area you have:

Walmart
Spirit Bank Event Center
Genghis Gril
Jack in the box
Chic Fil A
Super Target
South of the Border
Taco Bueno
Starworld 20 Theater
Andy Frozen Custard
Sprouts Supermarket
Charlie's Chicken
Sonic
Carl's Jr
Pei Wei
Zoe's Kitchen
Einstein Bagels
Savastano's
Burger King
Starbucks
Braum's
Schlotsky's
Popeye's
Aldi's
Radio Shack
Q Cuts
Arby's
US Cellular
AT&T
CVS
Rex's Chicken
Three banks
Hotel
6-7 strip centers full of other local business such as paint stores, home improvement, insurance agents, eateries, etc.

I almost forgot...
My usual beer store is The Crossing at 101st next to what used to be the Albertson's/Food Pyramid store.  They have a good beer selection and have a couple of good beer gurus.  I/we also went to Pyramid for a different selection than WalMart, especially before Reasor's opened.  I did pop into Reasor's in Jenks occasionally when I was already at RVS.

Mom goes to Walgreen's but doesn't like them anywhere near as much as the May's/DrugMart/Drug Warehouse or whatever it was they bought out and shut down.  I get my prescriptions at WalMart. $10/90 days generic.

Still the Luddite!

Everyone wants jobs and development, but not in their neighborhood!  Goes to what I harp about concerning actual thought, planning, and consideration of what really is progress versus another big box...

Even I'm aware of the poorly kept secret concerning Cotsco's prospective South Tulsa plans.  Be patient, they are coming!  Same with TJ's.  The growth of both stores is still heavily tied to opening in new markets.

TJ's opened last year in Lexington, KY and Rochester, NY, my former cities of residence.  Cotsco is opening soon in Lexington, and announced an opening in Rochester next year.  The Lexington metro is exactly 1/2 the size of Tulsa's, so the fact that there are still untapped 1 million metro markets out there (in OKC and Tulsa) for both stores seems perplexing at this point and will no doubt be rectified.  I've read over and over that Oklahoma's liquor laws have often been cited as one the barriers that have kept stores from entering the market.  Perhaps this may not be as much of an issue as it has been made out to be.  Lexington and Rochester have their own forms of arcane and outdated alcohol laws similar to Oklahoma's, and TJ's successfully dealt with the challenges posed by those laws.  Cotsco will have successful workarounds as well.  Since wine and liquor cannot be sold inside grocery stores in both Lex and Roc, TJ's sells the wine in a separate enclosed area at the entrance.  I'll admit, I don't know how the state's low alcohol beer law can be handled.  I just hope that it won't be a showstopper for these stores to enter the local market going forward.

Both Tulsa and OKC will likely land these stores within months of another (just as other stores have done when opening in the state), using the neighboring market strategy when entering mid and smaller sized markets.  They do the same in KY (Louisville and Lexington) and upstate NY (Rochester, Buffalo, Syracuse, and Albany), and everyone brags and boasts about who got what first just like they do here!  Incidentally, Rochester is getting the first Sonic in NY and you bet it's a B*D!

Cotsco - South Tulsa, oh well makes sense...However, my preference is to see TJ's open in mid-town (or downtown) instead of south Tulsa, but I'd be happy wherever.  Although downtown might be perceived as a reach at the moment, TJ's in mid-town would be one of the very few niche chains that would be a nice add to B-side or Cherry St.  I'm sure they'd really like Utica Sq if they could get in there.

We know IKEA is not coming, but NBD!




 

In-N-Out may be coming soon too, FYI

I never saw what the big deal was about In-N-Out.  Went to one or two when I visited back in 2001 and wasn't really impressed.

Tried it in Dallas a couple of weeks ago, thought it was pretty good.

Not Fat Guys caliber, but beats every other burger I've had handed to me through a car window.

I would love to see an H&M (Would be nice to have a place where one could buy affordable and stylish clothes for normal built people in this city). and a Z Gallerie.   Both in downtown of course. 

So hopefully In and Out Burger (I've heard good things about em') is better than Five Guys and Smashburger.

Maybe H&M could land in DT or MT.  They closed 2 stores back home last year.  However, I saw at least 6 of them in downtown Karlsruhe, Germany last month.  Karlsruhe is about 300K pop, with an amazing walkable downtown that is probably between 2 and 3 miles long and many blocks wide with everything one could want.

Smashburger is a very low hurdle to clear.  We refer to it as Suckburger on TNF.

SaltBurger would also be correct.

Smashing is for Bruce Banner, not for Burgers.

Or sh!tburger, but I reserve that moniker for really crappy legislation.

In-n-out cuts their fries fresh for each batch.  They were actual potatoes just seconds before they hit the fryer.  Burgers are not bad, but their fries are awesome!

Don't know the legitimacy of this but I heard some of the big wigs from IKEA were in town recently for a meeting. Has anyone heard or know anything relating to that?

IKEA would be a retailer worth courting to an interesting location. They often build a typical box design with surface parking, but they have experience occupying different spaces AND don't rely on location for their draw. Perfect anchor for an area where you want more retail and it could go somewhere neat and underutilized.

BUT... if there were Ikea reps in town, it escaped the attention of the Bring Ikea to Tulsa facebook group, which appears fairly active:
https://www.facebook.com/Bring-IKEA-to-Tulsa-Oklahoma-117490988267894/

As of the middle of last year, Ikea told the Tulsa World that there were no plans to open in Oklahoma:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/retail-envy-what-popular-stores-would-you-like-to-see/article_6c1c7f15-9014-55ca-93fe-ff26b1a68e31.html


Fun fact of the day - within a 2 hour drive of Tulsa, there are more than 4 million people. Within a 2 hour drive of Oklahoma City, there are less than 3.5 million.

That and Tulsa is more middle distant between existing IKEA stores in Kansas City and Dallas.

Someone at work yesterday mentioned this. What they heard was that IKEA was looking at two locations. One was the SW corner of 121st & Memorial. The other was either the SE or SW corner of Hwy 75 & Hwy 67(151st South).

Neither seems ideal to me, but who knows?

I've never been to IKEA.  Do they normally go for the "away from everything" locations?

My wife is a fan and I have been to too many of them. They mostly are suburban, but not way out. They generally are right on major highways in major shopping areas. Some have structured parking.

I've never seen one as far off from a highway as 121st and Memorial or on a minor highway like US 75 out in Glenpool.

The only Ikea's I've seen are adjacent to major highways.  In Pittsburgh, it's off of I-376.  In Dallas it's at the intersection of two major toll roads.  There's also an IKEA in between Denver and Colorado Springs on I-25.  South of SLC there's one on I-15.  In Houston, it's just outside the 610 loop on I-10.  In St Louis, it's on I-64.

I can't name one that's not visible from a major highway.  This make sense b/c they don't deliver.  You have to show up there and buy stuff from the store.  So it's more convenient for people from out of town if you are located on an Interstate.

What were they saying about it? My experience was I overheard two people talking about their day and one mentioned he had just met with the Ikea people that had just flew into town and didn't want to butt in and start asking questions. Wish I stayed and got more information now.

Same for Phoenix, San Francisco, LA and San Diego all are next to interstate freeways in heavily populated suburban areas. The only rural, so to speak, location is their warehouse and distribution center in Wheeler Ridge, CA between LA and Bakersfield.

Ah...Maybe our Governor has worked out another distribution center for us to replace the oil and gas jobs.

Could be if the are looking to expand in the central US. Their other locations are on the coasts, an in the central US Oklahoma and Kansas does have good rail line freight yards and close proximity to I-35 & I-29 which links with most east/west interstates. This could lead to an IKEA in Oklahoma.

IKEA in NYC (Brooklyn)  may be the exception..   1 mile drive from highway.   It does have it's own ferry terminal though!
Google Map (https://www.google.com/maps/search/ikea/@40.6703046,-74.0153792,16z)

I didn't get in on the beginning of the conversation but it was one of those deals where someone I work with has a relative, I think it was a sister, who somehow knows a person involved in the location search. The discussion was going on in our break room when I walked in to put my lunch in the microwave. I asked what they were talking about, the person said Ikea was looking for a spot "around Tulsa" and when I asked where they mentioned the two locations I stated above.

Personally I don't get the love for Ikea. From what I have seen of their furniture it is barely a step above what you can buy at Target.

I love Ikea for my business.  Just last week I bought six metal and glass tables having two chairs each with wicker seats for $100 per table and chair set.  Best quality for the price I could find.  I needed cheap for the store but still something that was decently sturdy.  Hope to begin teaching art classes at DECOPOLIS next month kind of like Pinots Palette.   Found some great little store signage displays there that day as well and we have bought some display cabinets there for LOOK eyecare and eyewear.  I know lots of other businesses that also get things from Ikea for use in their stores. 

Ikea is great for the selection and price point. There is a lot of mediocre stuff most won't like, but for everyone, there is something there you will like at a price point you won't find anywhere else.

They have some awesome lamps and good rugs at great prices. The quality is typically a bit better than Target, but for significantly cheaper. They certain things that look very good at reasonable prices that are really expensive at other places. An example is their patio furniture. The patio furniture at Lowes, HD or Target is expensive and mostly doesn't look great. Ikea has sleek looking patio furniture for really cheap. Nice, Sturdy, fold-out chairs for $15. Entire sitting sofa/table sets for $300-$500 that look better than the $600-$800 sets at Lowes or HD.

To be honest, having them a few hours away almost makes it better for those who have it as it keeps the furniture from being too common so it looks new/fresh. If you do have Ikea, it can stand out as nice and unique (depending on what you get). If we had one, everyone would have a lot of the same items and it would certainly lose some appeal to me.