07/13/2012
About a week ago I heard a blurb on a local TV station about an Amusement Park on the west side of the Arkansas River between 23rd St. and 11th Street.
Dewey was talking about a new River Plan on a film clip
What is going on now????
Are they going to put The Indian statue there????
Gigantic wind driven ferris wheel for entertainment will serve as a dual purpose to generate power for the plant next door and serve as a reminder that the city is doing something to lower the ozone.
this is all that i could find that was done recently (nothing about an amusement park in this one, though):
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/City-of-Tulsa-aims-to-develop-Arkansas-River
City of Tulsa aims to develop Arkansas River
Posted: 07/04/2012
By: Marla Carter
TULSA - For Tom Dittus, owning Blue Rose Cafe along the Arkansas River is a dream come true.
"I really do have a great gig," Dittus said.
He's got a busy lunch rush, a scenic view and a great location along the river, but getting a spot at 18th and Riverside wasn't easy.
"It was a very competitive process because there were 12 groups," said Dittus.
Fast forward a year and a half and Blue Rose is going strong.
"We would welcome some company down here absolutely," said Dittus.
Doing so has been a mission of the city's for a while, especially in the Festival Park area on the west side of the river.
"Initially, we attempted to get the private sector to give us some ideas on what they thought could be used for that area," said Mayor Dewey Bartlett.
But a weakened economy put that project on the back burner.
"They had other commitments -- financial commitments -- they didn't feel like they could afford another one," Bartlett.
Still, city leaders haven't given up. Now, they're starting again by hiring a firm to come up with a river master plan.
"See what they would recommend what we do regarding planning," said Bartlett. "Set some areas aside for a variety of purposes, whether it's residential or commercial or amusement related."
Under one condition, that is.
"Festival Park, River Parks, that that they be left alone. We don't want those negatively impacted," said Bartlett.
You'll also see upgrades to the river trails on south Riverside and on the west side of the river.
Another possible improvement, "River Parks is working closely with the county's consultant engineers to renovate Zink Dam," said Matt Meyer, with the Tulsa River Parks.
Meyer said that would depend on state funding.
Plus, there are big plans for the area between 26th and 31st on Riverside. The George Kaiser Foundation plans to turn the area into a park of sorts.
It has had several meetings seeking public input before releasing any final plans. It's called the Gathering Place.
The project could come in at $150 million.
"It's very well thought out, very amazing and to be mostly privately funded, so that's even more exciting," Meyer said.
Look for the Gathering Place to break ground in 2014.
So from better trails, more parks and more places to dine and visit, it looks like the plans for river development are starting to flow in.
The mayor has also formed a river task force. It's made up of people with all different backgrounds and areas of expertise.
He's hoping they'll give him some good recommendations by the end of the year.
Another river task force. I wonder over the last thirty years how much money has been spent on river planning?
And how many "studies" has the city commissioned?
And how many of those commissioned were friends of the Mayors?
We need to quit studying and either build or not.
Soccer guy has an idea... ;D
http://www.morganswonderland.com/attractions/park-attractions
(http://www.morganswonderland.com/images/Morgan%20Photos%201/Aerial_View.jpg)
Quote from: OwenParkPhil on July 14, 2012, 07:45:58 AM
Another river task force. I wonder over the last thirty years how much money has been spent on river planning?
And how many "studies" has the city commissioned?
And how many of those commissioned were friends of the Mayors?
We need to quit studying and either build or not.
Seriously.
We were talking about that here at work last week.
I would bet upwards of 30 million has been spent on those studies.
Someone is getting rich and favors are being exchanged.
Quote from: Weatherdemon on July 16, 2012, 08:19:44 AM
Seriously.
We were talking about that here at work last week.
I would bet upwards of 30 million has been spent on those studies.
Someone is getting rich and favors are being exchanged.
___________________________________________________________________________________
It is the Romanic dreamer of a river flowing through the cities busy eating district. The dream has an abrupt awaking when we analyze the provision of nature to construct an open sewer in the mid-continent basin of the Aransas of which the little muddy is.
The continuous study of the converting the little muddy in a clear water jewel is being done with by the overburdened tax structure of debit spending. The money is coming partly from the sales taxes on the children and the aged food that has number one priority on their resources. We are not creating industry jobs needed but creating jobs with the meager life saving of the aged through a runaway taxing structure.
The Mississippi is muddy. The Arkansas is sandy. It does make a difference.
Quote from: AquaMan on July 25, 2012, 07:03:46 PM
The Mississippi is muddy. The Arkansas is sandy. It does make a difference.
The Arkansas is also salty. Look out for sharks.
Seriously though, does sand like that present in the Arkansas fall out of suspension easier than mud?
Quote from: Red Arrow on July 25, 2012, 08:43:22 PM
The Arkansas is also salty. Look out for sharks.
Seriously though, does sand like that present in the Arkansas fall out of suspension easier than mud?
Its only salty below the confluence of the Cimarron and Arkansas where Keystone Lake is formed. The Cimarron is salty because of its tributary, Salt Creek (though oil men assert its because of the numerous old wells along the Cimarron).
The difference the sand makes is that it tends to cleanse the river through filtering. The Arkansas above Tulsa is often clear enough that you can see down 3 feet and always clear the closer you get to the dam because the sand is coarser in that area. I would suspect that the finer sand found around Jenks and Bixby, and the flatter nature of the geography in those areas, keep it in suspension longer.
There are fresh water sharks aren't there?
Here is a dumb question. And I usually have many. How far out from the mouth of the Mississippi River flowing into the Ocean does the fresh water go before being consumed into salt water?
And do salt water fish close to the mouth of any fresh water river get caught in fresh water or vice versa.
And no I am not smarter than a 5th grader. ;D
Quote from: DolfanBob on July 26, 2012, 08:56:16 AM
Here is a dumb question. And I usually have many. How far out from the mouth of the Mississippi River flowing into the Ocean does the fresh water go before being consumed into salt water?
And do salt water fish close to the mouth of any fresh water river get caught in fresh water or vice versa.
And no I am not smarter than a 5th grader. ;D
I'll give you a layman's understanding but I bet there is a marine biologist among our fold. Or, take a trip to the Aquarium.
As large as it is, the quantity of water coming out of the Mississippi is dwarfed by the Gulf. The water is dissipated pretty quickly unless the tide is low. The fish that inhabit those areas have adapted to low or varying salt content or are able to survive in either environment. The Chesapeake bay is a good example of that. So are the swamps/wetlands along the Gulf. Sometimes saltwater fish will get trapped in freshwater areas either through confusion, sickness, , hurricanes, flooding or whatever. They can't survive long as their food supply and support system is lacking.
The Arkansas has freshwater sturgeon that adapted to the lower salt content.
That makes complete sense. Thanks AquaMan.
Quote from: Weatherdemon on July 16, 2012, 08:19:44 AM
Seriously.
We were talking about that here at work last week.
I would bet upwards of 30 million has been spent on those studies.
Someone is getting rich and favors are being exchanged.
If there is business and government involved there will always be favors exchanged and funny money activity. That said, these studies seem to be legit from my experience. The environment along the river and the plans for exploiting its nature are always changing. For instance, the amount of sand in the river has dramatically decreased over the last two decades due to flooding, dredging and the nature of dam releases. Some of those studies were for particular proposals and are either proprietary, outdated or unrelated to current proposals. You won't find the owners of the Channels proposal willing to freely share the studies they paid for nor are they particularly useful for a downstream proposal for a whitewater park imo.
The Corps requires a study for any change that impacts the river. The EPA may also require a study if it impacts the surrounding area. Its a waste of time and resources to not include those costs early in the process.
I don't see anyone getting rich from any river development efforts so far. The positioning of the players is creating a sort of push/pull process that keeps everything at pretty much status quo. The real flashy development is going to be the Gathering Space and the Whitewater park at 31st and Riverside. That is going to provide the re-invigorating of the whole process. Of course that means more controversy as well. The forces against any development are as resolute as those who want to harness the economics of the area while retaining its natural attractiveness.
Quote from: AquaMan on July 26, 2012, 09:17:25 AM
I'll give you a layman's understanding but I bet there is a marine biologist among our fold. Or, take a trip to the Aquarium.
As large as it is, the quantity of water coming out of the Mississippi is dwarfed by the Gulf. The water is dissipated pretty quickly unless the tide is low. The fish that inhabit those areas have adapted to low or varying salt content or are able to survive in either environment. The Chesapeake bay is a good example of that. So are the swamps/wetlands along the Gulf. Sometimes saltwater fish will get trapped in freshwater areas either through confusion, sickness, , hurricanes, flooding or whatever. They can't survive long as their food supply and support system is lacking.
The Arkansas has freshwater sturgeon that adapted to the lower salt content.
Bull Sharks have adapted quite well and even prefer lower salinity at times. They have been found in the Mississippi River system as far north as St. Louis.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0719_050719_bullsharks_2.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0719_050719_bullsharks_2.html)
Quote from: AquaMan on July 26, 2012, 09:17:25 AM
The Chesapeake bay is a good example of that.
Our family kept our boat in the Chesapeake Bay when we lived back east. The bay was brackish as far north as Annapolis, MD. We were actually across the bay by Kent Island with the rest of the not so rich but I doubt very many here could find the Kent Narrows without Google Maps.
http://goo.gl/maps/GcVv
Quote from: AquaMan on July 26, 2012, 08:46:50 AM
Its only salty below the confluence of the Cimarron and Arkansas where Keystone Lake is formed. The Cimarron is salty because of its tributary, Salt Creek (though oil men assert its because of the numerous old wells along the Cimarron).
There are fresh water sharks aren't there?
What I heard years ago was that Lake Keystone was salty enough for sharks. I don't know if there are fresh water sharks.
I heard Kaiser stocked Keystone with sharks that have laser beams. He plans to release them down the river with his big gathering place project.
Quote from: rdj on July 27, 2012, 09:14:51 AM
I heard Kaiser stocked Keystone with sharks that have laser beams. He plans to release them down the river with his big gathering place project.
As long as some of them are hollowed out for kayaking I'm ok with it.
Quote from: rdj on July 27, 2012, 09:14:51 AM
I heard Kaiser stocked Keystone with sharks that have laser beams. He plans to release them down the river with his big gathering place project.
Shhhh. That's supposed to be eyes only.
Quote from: bacjz00 on July 26, 2012, 07:22:11 PM
Bull Sharks have adapted quite well and even prefer lower salinity at times. They have been found in the Mississippi River system as far north as St. Louis.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0719_050719_bullsharks_2.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0719_050719_bullsharks_2.html)
Check this out. Just what you were talking about.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2179904/Officials-clueless-bull-SHARK-turned-Alabama-lake.html
Quote from: DolfanBob on July 27, 2012, 02:44:34 PM
Check this out. Just what you were talking about.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2179904/Officials-clueless-bull-SHARK-turned-Alabama-lake.html
Those old enough to remember a fisherman/sports guy who did segments on Ch 6 way back in the 60s70s may remember the rumor that an alligator was residing in the Arkansas between the Dam and Tulsa. I believe his name was Joe Krieger or Mac Creagor? He moonlighted at LooBoyles department store which had a pretty good fishing department. It would have to have migrated up the Mississippi, but more likely would have been transported by human. After spending some time on the river it would have been believable back then. Seemed like there was more water.
Outside of the trails, we need to move on from the river. It's not the most desirable thing in the world.
what's with all those ponds? Are they detention ponds?
Nice to see this moving ahead....forward!
It seems so odd for the people to want to turn the river that decades ago was considered as a health problem jeopardizing those who would dare eat the fish taken from it into a “jewel of Baghdad“. Then too it was noted as a river of “quick sand” which swallowed up things that tried to navigate it before the 11 street bridge was built.
When a teenager, seining for bait, seined up a skull where the BA sewer disposal is before the river meandered to the north turning a 100 Acres in riverbed. We just examined it and tossed it back in the river.
Quote from: shadows on August 02, 2012, 02:13:06 PM
It seems so odd for the people to want to turn the river that decades ago was considered as a health problem jeopardizing those who would dare eat the fish taken from it into a "jewel of Baghdad". Then too it was noted as a river of "quick sand" which swallowed up things that tried to navigate it before the 11 street bridge was built.
When a teenager, seining for bait, seined up a skull where the BA sewer disposal is before the river meandered to the north turning a 100 Acres in riverbed. We just examined it and tossed it back in the river.
I believe there is a record of the incident.
(http://hoocher.com/Frans_Hals/Portrait_of_a_Man_Holding_a_Skull_ca_1611.jpg)
Quote from: Gaspar on August 03, 2012, 04:38:09 PM
I believe there is a record of the incident.
(http://hoocher.com/Frans_Hals/Portrait_of_a_Man_Holding_a_Skull_ca_1611.jpg)
I don't think that a skull being found in the river is tied to it being a health hazard but I know it used to be one.
Students in Jenks used to take samples every year and have them analyzed back in the 80-90's and it always turned up more raw sewage than what was allowed.
Granted, these samples were taken at 81st sreet about 7 blocks from the treatment facility at 71st.