The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Figured I would start a new topic, the other ones were a little dated.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/05/07/hertz-headquarters-relocate-lee-county/2140561/


Sent from a friend at DTG

All HQ employees in Park
Ridge (other than those employees remaining in New Jersey) and all HQ employees
in Tulsa who are in departments that are moving to Florida and who will be staying
with the company moving forward, will be offered roles in Florida and provided
relocation assistance. Employees who are not able to, or decide not to relocate, and
who do not leave the company for other reasons, will be able to stay in their current
roles until the new HQ is completed and will be given severance consistent with our
existing policies.

Hertz Corporation to relocate Dollar Thrifty headquarters to Estero, Florida from Tulsa, Oklahoma

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/hertz-corporation-to-relocate-dollar-thrifty-headquarters-to-estero-florida-from-tulsa-oklahoma (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/hertz-corporation-to-relocate-dollar-thrifty-headquarters-to-estero-florida-from-tulsa-oklahoma)

It always seemed obvious Dollar-Thrifty would move out of Tulsa after the sale.  Interesting that Hertz is now moving the whole operation to sunny (and state income tax free) Florida.

Apparently they are leaving their IT and call center here.

For now

I guarantee you the income tax issue was nowhere near the top of the list!  It's the Naples area!!!  That's all it needs!

Has anyone heard how St. John becoming part of this larger hospital group is going to affect their hospitals and non medical staff?

Unless something has developed in the last few weeks I'm not aware of, should be business as usual.  The last news piece I can find on the alignment with Ascension is Sept. 5, 2012.  I do work with all of SJMC's facilities and nothing has changed at least in building operations and no one has mentioned to me that there are major changes coming.  Operations, housekeeping, and engineering are usually the first areas you will see major changes in a merger.  Capital projects are moving forward as usual, and if anything there's been some lateral moves within the organization which have improved the employment situation of a few employees I work with on a regular basis.

To my knowledge Ascension is not like Columbia HCA or HealthSouth which has a tendency to move long-term facility personnel out in favor of bringing in cost-cutters who have zero appreciation for the existing employment culture within a facility. 

Good to know. I've been told by my friends who work there, 2 nurses, 1 business office employee and 1 IT employee, that they aren't hearing anything and that a lot of the non medical staff are nervous.

Now THAT is a drift!!

I thought I was ok at it, but I tip my hat to the masters!!

So what is the opinion that the Tulsa Chamber will come out about any of this in a press release about DTG

They already did.  It was in Tulsa World same day as announcement.

Corporate handouts are out of control.  Tax breaks.  Job incentives.  Business incentives.  Loan subsidies.  Bailouts.  And constructed new corporate headquarters.  From Citgo to Waterloo Industries... we bribe companies to come here (or to the region) and then the incentives expire and they get bribed to go somewhere else. 

I can't blame the corporations, they exist to make money.  Period.  That is their duty to their shareholders.  Cities/regions are just playing the game - many places don't have a lot to offer business so they throw money at them.  When those places throw money at them everywhere else is pressured to throw money in.  Play the game.

I'd be in a favor of changing the rules.  Taking tax payer money and giving it to a corporation is NOT GOOD for most citizens.  It is good for the few citizens who get jobs out of the deal, but it doesn't help most citizens.  It surely isn't good for companies who have been in the area for a long time and are force to help fund competing businesses (or if not competing, at least help fund someone else's business).  It rewards established companies - to the necessary detriment of competing up and coming companies (read it is anti-competitive).

At the moment, Tulsa is trying to play the game.  We are bidding for companies to move here by utilizing incentives.  TIF, quality jobs, infrastructure, land, and other things.  We also advertise how "business friendly" we are and how low our wages are.  The selling points of the chamber are "we will bribe you as much as possible,"  "we change laws to favor companies over citizens," and "our people are poor."  I think that is the wrong tactic.

Focus on QUALITY OF LIFE.  If educated, motivated, and happy people want to live here... then employers who crave quality workers will want to locate here.  If drawing in new business is based on bribes and working for cheap - we will never get ahead of the curve.  It is a race to the bottom as we have to bribe companies more and have to relay more on low wage workers to tax to get the money to bribe them with.  Quality of life people.  We need people to want to live here - to get companies that want to be here.

If enough Hertz employees in New York would have said, "sure, Tulsa sounds neat" . . . we would have at least been in the discussion.  If countless oil company executives couldn't ever think of moving from Tulsa to Houston, more would have stayed.  The oil around here is drying up.  What we have to sell is our city and our people.  Lets make that work for us.

This is not to say we can't offer economic incentives.  But they need to be smart (TIF/infrastructure), targeted (higher wage, committed to stay, fits out strengths well), and followed up on (if you do not live up to your promises, we get our money back). 

Only in 'Hijacked America' is that their only reason to exist!  Read some Peter Drucker for the REAL reasons in depth.  Sound bite version - they are a tool created by the state for the benefit of society.  Period.  Stockholders are AT BEST an equal partner in that joint venture!  (IF corporations are not a tool to leverage the effort of a society, for the benefit of that society, then there is really no other valid reason for their existence....my quote.)


Quick quote about Drucker - and the book quoted is excellent, if anyone has the attention span necessary to read anything more than a graphic novel;

Drucker taught that management is “a liberal art,” and he infused his management advice with interdisciplinary lessons from history, sociology, psychology, philosophy, culture and religion.  He also believed strongly that all institutions, including those in the private sector, have a responsibility to the whole of society. “The fact is,” Drucker wrote in his 1973 Management: Tasks, Responsibilities, Practices, “that in modern society there is no other leadership group but managers. If the managers of our major institutions, and especially of business, do not take responsibility for the common good, no one else can or will.”



Here is a little 'starter kit' for Peter Drucker.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Drucker

I could probably look this up, but I figure some you already have this info or know where to get it.  What large companies, if any, have ever relocated their headquarters to Tulsa (or even OK) due to quality of life reasons?  Or broaden the question in general, and are there any that have moved their HQ's here for any reason? 

I like Tulsa, and OK in general (I took my screen name "rebound" , because I moved back here after several years in other states).  But I was born in OK and so my sense of home is here.  If I were a business started here I might have that same sense of home and stay here as well.  But whether business or personal, I can't see an out-of-state entity moving here only for "quality of life".  Tulsa is good, but not unique enough to create a major draw. 

They got a nice piece of land in a great area!
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/8734779901_b76c7919f0_z.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7291/8735898582_ff5b6e255e_z.jpg)

About 10% unemployment in the area.
Cost of living index is below the national average at 94.2.

There is 0% state income tax for individuals and 5.5% for corps, as well as only 6% sales tax.

So the move would save them about $50,000,000 a year.  They could finance a really nice campus, and do a lot of expansion with that money.  Can't fault them.  I doubt any form of corporate welfare would be necessary, or would overcome the tax, employment, and lifestyle advantages that already exist.  I suspect all that Gov. Scott had to do is send a Google Earth snapshot of the available property with a note that said "lets talk."

Maybe this is Florida's payback for Lobeck's move of Vanguard from Florida to Tulsa.  ;-)

And it's west Florida!!    Yay!!

Has anyone asked queen Kathy what she would have done or could possibly do to enhance Hertz to move more jobs from OKC to Tulsa...

Rename the state "Florida"...but then she would have to deliver beach....

Hertz to close Tulsa Service Center, 80 employees to be laid of

(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/cb/ecb120ba-84dd-5276-b146-6ec1d053f070/5401292c5c484.image.jpg?resize=300%2C225)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/transportation/hertz-to-close-tulsa-service-center-employees-to-be-laid/article_4eeb2ea3-9513-54e3-b3f0-ee0ec2caee45.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/transportation/hertz-to-close-tulsa-service-center-employees-to-be-laid/article_4eeb2ea3-9513-54e3-b3f0-ee0ec2caee45.html)

They treat employees a lot better than what Cities Service did back in the 70's. No help whatsoever when layoffs occurred. There was a severance but certainly no where near a year and no retraining programs or job help. Just close that Credit Union account and don't take any pencils!

I remember applying at Blue Cross/Shield later where the personnel lady told me she had heard Cities had gotten rid of their dead wood. COT told me those Cities people were top drawer, but never hired any of us. Nice.

Don't ever think those were the "good old days".

added: upon reflection I realize how cynical, angry and hostile I still am over the trauma of losing my first real job due to energy cycles I had no control over. I'm sure there are fine people with BC/BS and the city. If you come upon someone who recently was laid off in this industry or whose company got bought or downsized etc., show as much compassion and insight as you can muster. It ranks right up there with divorce, death of a family member and bankruptcy. Actually my life is better for having endured all of those but I didn't think so at the time.

According to NewsOK, Hertz has told their OKC center to brace for 255 layoffs.

Wish I knew what we could do to retain corporate headquarters. Really bad run under Dewey.  Mostly not his fault of course, but still...

I repeat my rant above by reference. Without raising our quality of life, companies will always move on to cities with greener pastures. Be that more bribes (economic incentives), more educated workforce, or simply a higher standard of living. Our primary draw at the moment is a qualified workforce in the oil and gas arena and a lot of other people that will work for cheap.

Mid-sized cities will always struggle to keep very large national company HQ's, unless they are the hub for a particular industry.  Tulsa is an oil and gas hub but even then you may lose a HQ to a merger or consolidation (see Williams).  The best thing you can do is continue to make quality of life better than comparable cities as well as education and infrastructure.  The state regulatory environment (low taxes, regulation, "business friendly", etc) plays a role but not the extent that many believe.

 I'm a strong believer as many of you know of building up our higher education options as that is direct link to increasing the high-paying sector of the workforce.  A more educated workforce creates opportunities in industries like tech and advanced manufacturing.  The absolute key is building a larger and more independent 4 year university.  The Tulsa campuses of OSU and OU should both be much larger and less tied to their flagships, especially OSU with its downtown location which could be the state's only true urban research university.  TU also plays a major role and should be larger and more integrated; they should aspire to be more like a TCU or Vanderbilt both private universities that are major job creators. 

Just an observation, isn't "professional service" putting polish on "call center employee" to make it look better? Think you might need to look at who's getting the CoC to push "professional services" as the key industry for NE Oklahoma.

Invest in education and quality of life.  Don't waste millions trying to lure large corporations from out of town. Work to keep the young folks around and foster entrepreneurship.  These are pretty simple, proven methods for increasing local jobs.  Entrepreneurs build companies in the city where they live, they aren't shopping for giveaways in far off places.

No, that would also include IT, HR and Accounting.

Yes, and you can include mechanic, the dry cleaners, Macy's distribution center and janitorial companies as well. But the point is, and a drum beat often heard on this site is "Why do we have all these call center jobs an why can't we attract higher education to Tulsa, and why can't we get major corporations to move hear and attract more highly educated people here" when it sounds like the CoC is selling office space for more call center jobs.

They can wear Jorts on Friday in FLA......

Sort of contradictory there.  Dewey is not very supportive of "quality of life initiatives" when it comes to urban transit, infrastructure, development, etc.  His positions on Visions renewal, Turkey Mountain, REI, zoning, etc, is the tip off.  He's caught in the old way of thinking that is making our competitor cities much more attractive.

Dooey's idea of a competitor city is BA or Jenks.  He's not really thinking of Denver, Portland, Nashville...heck, even Little Rock... as a competitor city.  Brain's six sizes too small to consider it.

My opinion: your competitor cities are the places your kids move to when they're old enough to leave town.

Don't make me defend a politician! But to be fair, it seems doubtful that the Mayor's actions influence any of the recent decisions. Perhaps if he was radically proactive on quality of life issues, his positive influence could have prevented the moves - but nothing indicates that. Rather it was a long process of falling behind, or at very least not getting ahead that brought us to our current station.

But it is fair to say that his "pro business" stance certainly didn't sway them.

Well the Anne and Henry Zarrow Foundation has placed a silver lining on the property.

The property has been purchased with plans to house nonprofit service providers.

So, a suggestion. Make sure the complex is on a regular bus line. Purchase the adjacent apartment complex and convert it into housing for the homeless. Services, housing and transit all in one location to try to get homeless people back on their feet.   

Portland, OR.  Eugene, OR.  Sacramento.  Las Vegas.  Seattle.  Knoxville.  Minneapolis.  St Louis - the 'flyer' of the bunch...no idea what was in their minds!

Vegas? Whatever were they thinking? The rest of the list makes sense, even St. Louis. My daughter lives in Portland. But Vegas is the least authentic place on earth.

I thought that too when it first happened.  Not a place I would be interested in at all.  But they landed in Henderson, so kinda away from the worst of it, and moderate on housing costs.  There is a 5 year plan so don't expect to be there too long.  They have easy access to a massive amount of entertainment options - have become little "social butterflies".  And it is warmer there now than here...mostly.  

Good jobs in technical fields.  Short term, it kinda does make sense for them.

Last weekend, just strolling around before a show they were going to they saw Rob Schneider (comedian) - he was just walking around - chatted for a moment, and got a selfy.  They see "stars" regularly - both in shows and on the street.  Not a big thing in my world, but kind of exciting for younger people, I guess...  They have enough contact to have understood for a long time that 'stars' are just regular people that others are willing to spend money to see, so they are pretty well grounded.


I still wonder about the St Louis contingent....