The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

RiverParks eliminates Oktoberfest committees, will stop sale of pitchers


continued.. (http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/riverparks-eliminates-oktoberfest-committees-will-/nZFKS/)

This is considered one of the best Oktoberfest celebrations in the country.  It seems that the flaw has been in marketing and not content.  Can TulsaNow save this great event?

Well there goes another once great Tulsa event.......

So the response to lower revenues is to do away with the most popular item of the entire festival?  Makes sense.  They better rethink that and let it go on as it has.

I wonder if ABLE had anything to do with this......

read the article, they did.

Ah, just skimmed over it.  Thanks.  Reading some of the comments on the article (it's funny now how the rhetoric is scaled back now that people are required to use their real names on there) it wasn't abundantly clear.

I don't think marketing or content is the problem. It seems to be well attended and popular even to outsiders. The real issue here is administration. Whether the promoters' model is flawed and can never work as RPA alleges (worked for 30 yrs!) or whether RPA simply wants to bring it in house for control and liability limitations which is what defines an authority anyway.

The fest will do well regardless. And if it doesn't it will resurface somewhere else. I would be more concerned about how the volunteers feel they've been mistreated and how Hohulski feels railroaded. Tonya Carriger btw is only the pr person. She didn't make these decisions.

I think you are making a "Smoot" point

http://www.sadtrombone.com/?play=true

What office is he going for?

IMO beer drinkers are becoming more sophisiticated but OctoberFest is not keeping pace (yes I've been hit in the head by the flying pennies...but still). Choices at OF are still fairly limited even though other Tulsa  beer garden type events are gaining in popularity.

Whatever it is he should never be elected.

You make a good point.  Basically anything at Octoberfest is at Fassler Hall or McNellie's now.  It isn't anything special to get that beer on draft any more.  I understand why they think the no pitchers is a good idea.  Basically if you are pretty trashed and your last purchased drink is a pitcher or a 16 oz more than likely you will drink it.  So people that should have quit one drink before are drinking a whole pitcher instead of 16 oz.  Its the LAST pitcher that is the problem not the first.  So stopping pitchers at a certain time of the night would cover everybodies interests.

He is devious enough to be a good politician. I bet he could "out-Sally" Ms Kern.  Just the kind of politician Okies like.

So according to people who know things about liqour.  There is a law that states that a person can only purchase 2 drinks at a time of strong beer.  So technically I think they have been breaking the law in the past.  Its supposed to be the same for bars.  They should only sell you 2 drinks at a time.

On another note.  The last IRS documents vailable for Oktoberfest shows that after their year where they lost $60k they made $303k profit.  It was about 20% profit.  Also the River Parks management change happend over a year ago.

*EDIT* somebody just called ABLE and they said that is how RPA wants to run it this year (no pitchers)

I'm guessing the year they lost money was likely the year the storm tore the tents down and hurt some people.  Am I correct in that assumption?

No that was 2007 I think.  Their sales were up about 300-400k from the 2010.  They could have invested more money into the festival for tents, etc.  I didn't pay attention.

I'm curious how Oktoberfest has ever lost money considering they make you purchase tickets so they can control the cash at a single point and considering how absurd the beer prices are.  Unless they pay their committee members for set up and teardown, what are the expenses aside from tent rental and maybe table/chair rental?  The GA Society has several trailers of items they own and store the other 50 weeks out of the year when they aren't in set up, festival, or tear-down mode.  Event staffing, I do believe, is 100% volunteer other than security.

Just because they lost money for the year doesn't mean their festival lost money. The board didn't take money.  Maybe they prepaid something the next year out?  Their fiscal year goes until March I believe.

I know that they have at least one full-time year round staff member.  I don't know why, but they do.

https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2012_07_EO/73-1154567_990_201203.pdf (https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2012_07_EO/73-1154567_990_201203.pdf)
This is their last financial statement.  They had been paying somebody 60k a year to run it.  I don't think they show up in the latest statement.

Really weird.  They spent $14,285 more on from 2010 to 2011.  Their profit increased by $366,401.  That is all listed as "festival operations" so it doesn't look like they sold assets with a huge profit.  Looks pretty bad on the people running it when you don't pay a directory and your profit from any previous year goes up about 600%.  I've been goign through some of their older 990's and they seem to be between -60k to +50k.  Of course they were paying the director 60k.  So they got rid of the director and then profit goes crazy.

edit: previous years document.  https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2012_01_EO/73-1154567_990_201012.pdf (https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2012_01_EO/73-1154567_990_201012.pdf)

RPA has been trying to come up with the funds after OF struggled. However, they didn't have control over how the festival was run. ABLE won't let volunteers drink anymore which is a big problem. Also giving all the volunteers front row parking is probably a bad idea too. If you do pitchers it makes it harder to control who drinks as well since you have to keep it away from those under 21 and volunteers.

Their sales will vary widely because they don't carry insurance and attendance and beer sales will vary widely based on weather, not just marketing. Also, I don't think they have a lot in the bank to carry them over the bad years.

RPA wants OF to be a stable, profitable operation that isn't shut down by Able and it seems that was not possible with the current setup.

Simple, 2010 total revenues were $1.15m vs. $1.53 in 2011.  What's odd about that is it almost implies that their "nut" is around $1.2m which doesn't make much sense if you consider beer would be a variable cost, unless they are spending $500K+ or so a year on Port-a-Johns, stage equipment, tents, site rental, and security.  Maybe I assume that people spend far more on beer or other liquid refreshments than they really do.

It would be interesting to look at what the weather was like those two years and see if there was quite a bit of rain during 2010 since all revenue would be generated from sponsorships, front gate admission, and ticket sales.  Also remember, they will not redeem your tickets for cash, so there's some tickets which go un-redeemed which are nothing but pure profit if it wasn't spent at the beer counter or with a food vendor.

Popular.
Profitable.
Gaining national attention.

So change it drastically?  That's dumb.

There has not been a significant problem with underage drinking.  Killing pitchers will not help (I can drink from your cup as easily as your pitcher.

Beer gardens?  Fine, put one in.  There are small quiet tents.  There are large dancing tents.  This is not a mutually exclusive proposition.  

If RiverParks doesn't want to be associated with a crazy beer fest - running Oktoberfest was a stupid decision.

You can buy pitchers of strong beer at bars.  The bartender sometimes asks how many cups and you tell him a number and get cups.  How is this different?  I know some people buy pitchers just for themselves but whenever I go the group takes turns buying pitchers for the group.  Also, I don't recall any significant problems with drunks.  That has always surprised me.  With all of the drinking going on you might expect more problems.  I see worse drunk behaviour at a bar on Friday night than I do at Octoberfest.

Two things catch my attention.

Don't they pay rent for the use of the facilities? All other users surely have. And, no insurance? You mean OF doesn't insure? RPA has always required that along with them being added to the policy. I was told RPA has paid off big in previous years on such things as someone tripping over an electric cord. They don't take those chances anymore.

Lastly, the ticket system was changed due to shrinkage. Accountability is a problem with festivals and they are into control.

I stopped going when they started charging admission to cover their losses.

I believe if you only ask for one glass they are supposed to turn you down on buying a pitcher.

Yep, which is why you always say two.  Or that your group already has glasses and its your turn to purchase a round.  Which is true for me and my group at Oktoberfest every year.  I'm just not getting what the problem with pichers is.  If it really is a law its stupid like the rest of our ancient liquor laws.

From their facebook page:


I guess I don't really have a problem with this.  Pichers were easier for sharing rounds and it may mean more trips to the beer stand but not as bad as having to refill a 16 ouncer over and over again which is what I was afraid of.  I never understood people who buy their own picher anyways.  By the time its half way through it starts getting warm.  I don't know of anyone who can drink 64 ounces of heavy german beer fast enough that it stays cold without getting stumbling drunk quickly.  That takes the whole fun out of the event.

The problem with the pitchers is everyone knows you send one guy with an ID to buy the pitcher then share with the under 21's. The second problem is you tend to finish the pitcher cause its so expensive. I've never seen so many drunks in one place in my life and I drive a party bus. Corporate night should be filmed and redistributed to all sponsor employees so they can see who they work for and with. Years ago the company I worked for sponsored and in return had a banner put at the top of the tent (barely visible) so I got to visit on Corporate night and check on our investment. Frankly, it was an embarrassment. We never did it again.

I'm no prude but,....oh, the humanity.... :D

Back in the nineties when I worked at an establishment literally walking distance from the park (north of Rodgers Litho at 23rd and Jackson), we always shut the shop down at 2pm and we all went to Corporate night.  I agree.  I've never seen so many drunk people in one place at one time...well, except for Mardi Gras in New Orleans.

I hate to inform them but acrylic is plastic.

I don't think I could even drink that much Millercoorsbud Lite that fast. 

Just for reference, 1 litre = 33.8 oz (approx). 

In my youth I could down one of those in about 8 seconds.  Not now.

Not me.  I was never a speed drinker.  I was in it for the long haul.   ;D

It would seem our city leaders could direct TPD to limit cooperation with a low-accountability agency bent on the destruction of our tourism economy, but apparently the lure of overtime trumps that.

De-funding ABLE should be a chamber priority.

Me and about five buddies of mine perfected the art of 'shotgunning' tallboys, or the big quart cans.  However you usually wound up wearing at least a third of it.

Beer is a variable cost, not fixed. You pay for what you consume.

The insurance comment was festival insurance, not liability. It covers you from losing 1.2Million in case the festivals tanks one year.

Seems like you have a really good grasp of the event, financials, and other details. What are the fixed costs to run the event?  Seems like they were doing middling profit at $1.1 to !.2 Mil total revenue reflected on financials from '06 or '07 through '11.  Suddenly they raked in over $300K with $1.5 mil in one year.

Seems like you are a little defensive regarding RPA and this event.  For disclosure sake, are you now an RPA board member or helping put this together or simply taking the defense due to your involvement with Mayfest?  Not trying to pick a fight, simply asking for full disclosure sake as you seem a little defensive on RPA's behalf. 

Me too. I "was" a start to finish kinda guy. Still an a**hole no matter how I got there.  ::)

I have no involvement in the event but I don't have a problem with the change.  I've dumped too many pitchers of beer at the end of the night because our group was ready to go and didn't want to speed drink half a pitcher of Warsteiner.

My understanding from talking to someone involved with another festival is they believe the lines will move faster because filling 16oz & 1L cups goes a lot faster than filling two 64 oz pitchers.  I also understand the law is two drinks, but it doesn't limit the size.

Last year we went just for the people watching.  It was state fair quality viewing.

But when you are 20 to 22 years old with a bunch of your friends, you tend to be a 'little' competitive.   ;D

http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/riverparks-eliminates-oktoberfest-committees-will-/nZFKS/

My two cents. . .

After working the board for several festivals across the state, and helping to develop a couple right here in Tulsa, I can tell you that when you break the organization, for whatever reason, the festival is over.  It takes far more than a small group meeting once a month to pull off a festival of this magnitude and make it profitable.

PR, sponsorship, and volunteer recruitment & management are 99% of the battle.  To bring this all together by October, they should have most of the larger sponsorships sold by NOW!  Through this press, RiverParks may lose much of the festival's momentum, and it will take significant additional investment to gain a portion of it back.  I wish them the best, but it's going to be an uphill climb.  They will need a passionate and dedicated staff willing to take this on as more than a diversion.  

All of that aside, it seems that the fiefdom known as ABLE is getting more bold.

 

I don't know much about how these things are organized, but from the outside looking in, it looks like the only major change is the picher thing.  Yeah, some are upset about it, but I really don't think it will keep people away.  If your decision to go or not is based on the difference between a 64 ounce picher and a 33 ounce stein, you might have a drinking problem.  Otherwise, the beer will still flow, the food will still be great, and the music will still be fun.  The only thing that might be a problem is if they decide to jack up prices significantly on the beer.  A picher of the good stuff was already pretty expensive, $19 or $20 I recall.  So a stein with roughly half the volume should be $10 or no more than $12.  If they want to charge $15 or more they are asking for trouble.  I go to Oktoberfest already expecting to pay a whole lot for beer.  A significant price hike might be a problem.  The price of the stein will also be a factor.  If you want $5 entrance fee, plus parking, plus another $20 just for a stein to fill with beer, it's another pricing problem that might affect attendance.

I too am curious. Rent and beer can be fixed costs or variable costs depending on the arrangement. If its a percentage lease then its technically a fixed cost that varies with sales and may not be easily predicted. Do they or do they not pay for leasing the facilities? That would have an impact on profitability.

I think lots of people would agree with you.

That's some pretty silly reasoning.  It only works if you make the assumption that you will be replacing each sold pitcher with one and only one 16 oz or 1L cup.  (I guess, technically, the line might move faster but it will be an equivalent amount (or more) longer as well.)

I am in agreement with you here (cats are kissing dogs as we write). This is not really about beer and pitchers. Those decisions are defensible and responsible.

Organization and volunteer participation are key for non profit festivals. They seem to have irritated Hohulski and some other board people and judging by the TW comments they've alienated a lot of long term volunteers. They also disbanded the previous volunteer organization a few years ago that helped put on events which rankled some people. Much of this comes from consultant recommendations. Please note, tenants don't last long over there. OF and the rowing crew are the only two over 3 years. Festivals come and go. They prefer to deal with corporates, fellow government entities and big name donors.

I doubt ABLE is the impetus for these moves. This is about control, image and risk aversion which are all principal elements of running an authority.
They're doing what they think they are supposed to do.

I know Tonja, but have nothing to do with Oktoberfest. I don't know Riverparks financials, but I do know enough about many of the parties involved to surmise what is going on.

They probably are doing what they are supposed to do.  Unfortunately, it may be totally unrelated to a successful event.


I've never been to OF since I would need to drive home.  Those prices are enough to keep me away regardless of driving or not.

There are always power struggles in these things.  Every board I've been involved with fell into the 70/30 rule.  70% of the people involved are just there to "be involved", and 30% actually do the work.  

There are two situations that cause these things to fall apart.  Either someone in the 70% mounts a challenge and changes the rules to make their mark (pissing off those who actually do the work), or those that do the work get tired of carrying water for an increasing number of "VIP" slackers.

We've actually told groups that they need to get smaller to be more profitable.  If something used to work in the past, and is failing now, look at what was changed and change it back!  New ideas are not always good ones.

They alienated a lot of long term volunteers when they said volunteers weren't allowed to drink.

Good insights. I actually appeared before one of these OF committees with a proposal. I saw that 70/30 in action. In the end it was one very powerful person who held sway and for all the wrong reasons. The others just knelt down. Speaking up would have meant defending their position and backing it up with action. My assumptions of demand for my feature were proven correct and I made some money. But had they not covered for another feature I would have made a lot of money.

Understand this, OF generates lots of money and at that time there was very little accountability. That affected visible profitability. I hope its changed in that respec

And carry guns, get freebies from vendors and generally act very VIP. There are always some like that though.

What they Think they are supposed to do. That's where the rub is.

Successful events, operated by others are what they are supposed to do. That's why they don't operate the restaurant. Their mission is to increase the activity and improvement of the river area for all the taxpayers. The people's assets are supposed to be safeguarded and increased in value and utility. Unfortunately,authorities like the now revitalized Economic Development Authority who suddenly sees the value of not fighting land sale and development within the Brady and its resulting explosion of lofts and hotels, has been the norm rather than the exception imo.

Are you say new lofts and hotels in the Brady District is a good or bad thing?  I can't tell if you think the EDA has changed for the better or worse.

Sorry, that was a wordy, poorly constructed sentence. Surprised RA didn't call me on that. :)

I think its a great thing. Too long in coming. The EDA spokesman was quoted in the newspaper recently when the new lofts by the stadium were announced, that they had changed their thinking. Sure, now that the ball is rolling.

It is very unclear to me under what authority RPA is operating in running a festival like OF.  Is putting on cultural heritage festivals really how RPA should be allocating its (presumably) limited resources?  This story that OF organizers asked RPA to take it over when they lost money in 2010 doesn’t make sense to me – and I assume there is a lot of backstory to which I am not privy.  Does that mean RPA covered the loss?  If so, where did the money come from to do so?  Does RPA assume the risk of any future losses?  What about profit, where does the money go?

My firm quit attending Corporate Night a long time ago when it was wall-to-wall drunkenness.  I have only attended OF sporadically since – mainly because I often have other things going on and dealing with parking/shuttle bus hassles, waiting in long lines to overpay for a limited selection of good beer, and seeing grownups do the “chicken dance” for the umpteenth time doesn’t do it for me.

I’m glad OF has been such a success and I hope it continues.  However, I question whether it can flourish while being run by a public body like RPA.

I generally move on from "a wordy, poorly constructed sentence", especially at work where I don't have time to spend deciphering it.   ;D

Using a wrong word that sounds the same (there, their....) or mistakes such as were/we're will usually catch my attention.  Sometimes the post makes sense if read "aloud" even if it is total garbage as written.  Obvious typos and local slang don't bother me.  That little poem about spell checker should be the TNF theme.

Edit:
your/you're  (also "yore", but no one around here uses that word)

If an Engineer (me) can find your grammar mistakes, you need help.
 

After reading all of the posts here, and the fact that I have not lived in Tulsa for some time, I remember that OF was a volunteer event that was held on the west bank which is/was owned by RPA since the inception of the event. I went to OF several times from '84 to the last time I went in '97, and the event was always well run, and I actually was happy when they went to the ticket system. I never thought of it as a "drunk fest" and as others here have mentioned that on any given Friday or Saturday night (actually any night) at any bar in Tulsa there is more crap that goes on there than at OF. From what I have read here, OF had a loss of $60k in 2010, (and with some festivals, this can happen anytime for any number of reasons) and it seems this was their biggest loss, and they asked for help from RPA. It just sounds like to me, that RPA has taken over, and if they are part of the city, it could explain why ABLE is involved and the sweeping changes.

I worked for a time at Saied Music, and remember that some of the German Bands came in to buy things for their instruments that they needed, and they talked about how they loved coming to Tulsa for OF because it was so popular and how they were received. It would be a shame for OF to become diluted like it sounds it may be, to see something grow to recognition, only to be gutted.

Just my $.02 and thoughts.

I'm happy that the RPA is trying to add some class to what should be an urbane and sedate affair. The Bacchanal has gone on for far too long. This is a festival to celebrate October after all.

(http://pool.theinfosphere.org/images/2/29/Countess_von_Luftballon.png)

"LIKE"   Anytime a Futurama reference actually works, we should all take a moment to appreciate it.  I'm with Fry on this one...

For reference, RPA doesn't own either the West Bank or the Oktoberfest. It is public land administered by an authority because there were bigger plans for it than city park land, and RPA leases their use to OF which is a non profit. We really don't want a public authority owning a festival or any other business on public lands. It is unwise. Think about the Airport Authority owning airplanes and competing with private entities. If they have in fact taken it over because of financial difficulties then we should all be protesting vigorously. That would be no different than bailing out banks and automakers. If they fail, then so be it. That's our business system.

As far as drunks I have a solid point of reference. As someone who is often out on Friday and Saturday nights, sober, visiting these clubs and restaurants you speak of, no, there is no comparison. OF is a drunkfest. Because of good security, it doesn't have much trouble with criminal behavior like fights, and public urination etc. but many more drunks per square foot than anywhere I have served. I also operated a water ferry back and forth across the river carrying patrons one year. Solid port to starboard drunks who peed in the river and stiffed me on fares.

I enjoyed OF from its inception on the east bank where it was much more family and narrowly focused as a German fall celebration. I even enjoyed it on the west bank for a few years until it became focused on beer and started to look more like the Tulsa State Fair. It is due some change as the young people who once stumbled around drunk are now pushing strollers and sheparding toddlers.

Thanks, my memory is rather fuzzy at times, and I could not remember how RPA was set up. It was my understanding from the article that they had asked RPA for help after a bad year in 2010, and I was taking it from the article that RPA was now running OF. Will go back and reread it. Thanks for the comparison to the Airport Authority scenario, I kind of thought of it being similar to that.

Now that the ABLE goons are involved, I'm not going. Fark those farking farks.

I'll just get a personal keg of Warsteiner and stay at home chicken-dancing on the dining room table.

Or as I like to call it, "typical Wednesday night".   (http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys%20Holidays/bth_SmileyOktoberfest02.gif)

Went to Oktoberfest last night.  Spent $24 and received a nice acrylic stein to keep plus they filled it up twice.  A few more bucks than the popular pitcher but I have a nice stein I'll actually use again.  Two liters is about 5-6 beers so at $4-5 a pop not too bad on a per beer basis.  Seeing everyone walking around with their steins is a nice sight.  I say prost to the Oktoberfest planners!

MC and I went.  The requisite brat burger and reuben sandwich and four pints of beer tabbed out at $40.  Not bad for a festival.  By far, the liter is a better deal as premium beers are $7/pint (and it looks more like a 12oz pint) and it's $10 to refill a stein.

I considered a stein but with Marshall's having four new varieties brewed exclusively for Oktoberfest, I hated to be married to a liter of any of them for fear of not getting to try them all. 

I'd had the dunkel when it was available as a limited release a few months back- maybe the best brew he's done in my book.

They also brought an altbier which pays homage to earlier style German ale making, a Kolsch, and a single malt/single hop called the "onesie" which also pays homage to Eric's daughter who turns one on Saturday.

The Kolsch was the only one I didn't get to try as I kept myself to a three pint limit and MC only wanted a pint of dunkel.

We did notice there doesn't seem to be as many artists or craft vendors this year as in years past.  Seemed like maybe a few more carnival rides.

AAck!  Brat was meant to be a sausage... feed the burgers to the ABLE trolls under the bridge.

It is a sausage, just in patty form!  ;D

They are advertised as 16 oz.  Was that not the case?  On a per oz basis they are about 40% more than doing the one liter, but your variety is less.

It takes about a 16 oz glass to hold a 12 oz beer + the head.

Oktoberfest needs some beer pouring volunteers I hear.

I would say something like 80% or more of the people I saw were carrying steins, so I'd say it was a good move. My money mainly went to Helmut's.
 
I haven't been in years so I can't really compare to last year. I did think people actually sat on benches instead of just standing on the benches, standing on tables, standing in every single walkway...

Preliminary attendance numbers were around 65,000 for the weekend so the changes didn't seem to keep many people away.  I think most liked the new steins.  

I was recently in Denver when the Great American Beer Festival was going on which also coincided with their Oktoberfest celebration downtown.  It got me thinking that Tulsa should expand its Oktoberfest to be more of a beer festival (more than it already is) along with the traditional food, rides, music, crafts and the chicken dance.  It could be a celebration of fall and good beer, and highlight local breweries.  :)

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/14228877_BG2.jpg)

Well done ^

A Smoot Fest!  Oh, wait..what?

Oh Spiteful One, Show me who to smoot, and he shall be smooten!

I volunteered for 7 years at Tulsa Oktoberfest but didn't this year because of the changes. My girlfriend and I decided to go on Friday and it was the worst attendance I have ever seen. No lines for anything. It was rainy but I have been there many years with rain and long lines. Several places closed early due to lack of volunteers. They should have locked in all the volunteers they needed by August but instead they were still begging for volunteers during the festival. I didn't see one person I had volunteered with before.  I heard the Riverparks Authority threw out anyone that didn't like the way they did things and treated long term volunteers like first timers.  I heard that attendance was better on Saturday with long lines for beer due to an extreme lack of volunteers. I also heard they were out of the best German beers. On positive notes, I did like the option to get the "Autobahn Pass" that you can purchase online to make it faster to get in but it wasn't needed with the lack of lines. I also loved the special Marshall's beers that were offered at the Fassler Hall tent. I missed the pitchers but the steins aren't terrible. Getting asked for ID every time was annoying. If it keeps going like this year, I suspect the festival will shrink in size or maybe move somewhere else. I spoke to some people at Fassler Hall that wished they would move it there and take over the blue dome district.

Your interpretations of things are the complete opposite of what I observed and from those I know who attended.  Saturday was very busy.  Lines were full.  Tents were full.  People liked the steins.  Everyone I saw was having a terrific time.  If lack of volunteers was a problem they can fix it over the next year.  All the volunteers I know had no complaints either.  If some people stayed away because they wanted pichers instead of steins, that's a pretty stupid reason to stop attending.

Those that stayed away because they have to drink beer from a 72oz pitcher are the ones that I would rather avoid anyway.

I took my sons Saturday late afternoon.  It was a great afternoon to be outside and I was surprised at how well behaved the crowds were over prior years.

Volunteers aren't allowed to drink freely anymore so volunteers dropped like flies.

Wife and I used to volunteer every year for over 10 years.  Never really saw it as volunteerism as that we typically drank the equivalent of a typical wage.

Why the big jump in Public Drunk arrests this year?

Last year it was something like _zero_

Complaints maybe?  Last year seemed particularly bad with the state fair crowd stumbling around like idiots.

As far as Octoberfest being "in trouble" it was extraordinarily busy this year so I'm guessing it's doing just fine.  I wouldn't mind if they charged even more though and priced out some of the bad crowd referenced above and shortening the lines a bit for the good beer.

We attended Saturday evening.  I would say it was overcrowded.  We were on site for about ninety minutes, took forty-five to get a liter of strong beer and we didn't even finish them because the crowds were overwhelming.  It took over thirty minutes to get on a shuttle at Fassler Hall.  All in all not the best experience.  I've talked to several people that feel the same way.  I would suggest they look at capping tickets or raising the entry fee.

Im also hearing police said someone pulled a gun on them, but saw nothing in the Whirled.

Will the new redesign and parking help with some of the issues that happened this year?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/river-west-festival-park-redesign-to-begin-in-november/article_13ff90e4-2dc8-5d72-93cc-c60a9139e581.html

Eight total arrests for public drunk.  I’m surprised it’s not higher.

MC and I usually go on Saturday afternoon, like around 2pm and stay until 5’ish and get the hell out before amateur hour begins.


http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/teen-arrested-oktoberfest/nhnGh/

Is the drop-of point really a quarter mile away this year?

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/oktoberfest-goers-opt-out-driving/nn8hW/

What are we trying to encourage/discourage?

I think the road by the park is closed.

Inaugural Smoot Pedestrian DUI Check Point. Gotta keep the sidewalks safe.

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/20509024_BG3.jpg)

They have a pay to park across from the festival entry on Jackson but I'm not sure how traffic is getting access to it. 

As far as patric’s comment about the 1/4 mile walk, I believe that is the drop point GAST was using for years with the shuttles when they were still in charge of the event.  No big deal for anyone preparing to spend a few hours walking around the venue. 

Come out to the weiner dog races today, mein frau and myself will be there helping out.  We are really liking the new layout after the makeover of RWFP. 

Prost!

Actually, I've had several friends arrested for public intox while walking home from Oktoberfest. They lived on the east bank of the river and walked home - there used to be an exit from the festival towards the pedestrian bridge.  As a crowd flowed from the festival an officer stepped in front, an officer stepped behind and a group of 15-20 people were then breathalyzed and anyone over .08 was arrested for public intox and taken to David L. Moss.

I bailed a couple of them out for $200 each. A week later they plead No Contest to a misdemeanor and were fined $75, being issued a refund for the $200 in bail they spent. I figure booking costs and transport is probably $500 per person...for a net loss of $425 each.

But hey, you stopped a drunk from walking home! Thank god for that.
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The DUI checkpoint on the 21st Street Bridge this year stopped 273 vehicles.  It netted 9 arrests for DUI. Statistically, maybe half of those will actually be convicted of DUI. For a 1.5% "success rate." The other 98.5% of citizens stopped without suspicion will not be convicted. 

Search everyone, 4th Amendment be damned, and we might catch 2% for something!

Again: DUI is bad. I never drive after more than 1 drink. I took the shuttle from Oktoberfest and caught an Uber from the shuttle drop. No reason everyone else couldn't follow a similar path.

But DUI checkpoints are very dubious 4th Amendment searches IMO.
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Oktoberfest was awesome again this year. My fears of Riverparks taking over and the loss of the pitcher were unfounded. Its expensive if you want to drink a lot... but no one has to drink a lot anyway. The festival continues to improve.

Good times had by all.

What year was that CF? I always walk home from Octoberfest and other west festival park fests. I had no inclination that I could be impeded from walking home after having a couple beers at a fest.

2006 or so.

And yes, you can absolutely be stopped for "suspicion of public intox." If an officer says you were acting drunk, the stop will stand up. If you are leaving Oktoberfest after a few liters of beer... you are probably legally drunk.

To be fair, I haven't heard of such shenanigans since that time. So hopefully there was a reason and my friends just got caught up in the middle of a pack that was targeted for a reason. Or... TPD just felt like they needed to make more arrests at Oktoberfest.

You aren't getting a P.I. unless you are doing stupid s.hit.....

Absolutely incorrect.   Public Intoxication is a catch-all that requires no evidence whatsoever.

The need to fulfill a performance goal to collect the promised grant money (that pays overtime) factors in more often than we care to imagine.

Dingus....I know....They don't give them out for people walking down the street...Please dont let your hate for cops get in the way of your comprehension.....But I know it will.....

Hi. My name is cannon_fodder, and I can tell you several stories of people who got a Pubilc Intox for walking down the street. People I would trust at their word on anything... let alone a lame story about getting arrested.  If they were lying, they would have made it much more dramatic and fun. Plus, the police reports all supported their stories.

GENERALLY, you are correct. It is a huge waste of time. One guy was stopped because he was in a "black" neighborhood and was accused of buying drugs, having no drugs they arrested him for public intox. The other guy was walking home from Oktoberfest in a group of people - at the hearing there was 6-8 from the same group (they didn't all know each other). A third was a TU student walking home from the Buckaneer Bar, I'm sure he was loaded... but none were charged or accused of public urination, vandalism, or noncompliance. Actually, the arrest report in the one I actually looked into stated the guy was "polite and compliant."

In my college town, the police would pick up drunks and drive them back to their dorms if they saw you walking home. It was a way of supporting kids who choose NOT to drive drunk.