The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Cast your ballots.

A. Mayfest
B. Blue Dome
C. HopJam

Without going to all three can't really rate.

I think Hop Jam didn't expect the crowd they would get.

Agree.

How many days did Hop Jam run?

And, FWIW, I’d be happy to see the BDAF move to it’s own weekend, it seems to have no problem standing on it’s own now and it’s one additional festival weekend for Tulsans to enjoy.

I think it's easier for them, because they don't need to promote anything.  They just need to show up on the underbelly of Mayfest and put up a sign or two.  Mayfest spends tens of thousands of sponsorship dollars on advertising that brings the traffic to Blue Dome.  The example exists in nature.

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I honestly can’t think of any Mayfest ads I heard unless they were buys around weather forecasts on the radio “Looks like a great weekend to get out to Mayfest...".  They get enough media attention starting a week or two out as it is I never have trouble figuring out when it is.

Who shoved that up your donkey so you could pull it out today?

I like that they created synergy between two areas of downtown.  Was nice to see that many people walking over such a large area.  But I can see the argument for having them be on different weekends as well.

What struck me though is now that I have spent more time in other cities around the world, what I saw during Mayfest/Blue Dome, the busy streets, the vendors and food, music, etc. would just be another average day.  What we saw this past weekend shouldn't be anything special, it should be the way downtown is most days… except busier with more people  and on more streets than just a few.

That's what it could be like if we develop our core well.  Every day would be a festival day full of energy, life and interesting things to see and do.  Regardless of whether you want to live in the midst of it, or out in the quiet burbs and occasionally come in to enjoy it.  

What can be difficult in our current stage of development is when there is a festival in one part of downtown, the other areas may be quieter than usual.  I know during the Friday and Saturday of last years  Center of the Universe Festival, we were as dead as if it had been a Sunday downtown. 80,000 people downtown, but you could hear crickets chirping on our side lol.  Btw, just signed up to be a vendor at this years festival.  

Even Mayfest doesn't do much for us, though everyone is only one block over lol.  Our sales are only a little bit more than an average Friday-Saturday would be for this time of year, however we are consoled that we do get a lot more people in the shop, aka a lot more people discovering us so it is good advertising. (had numerous people say our shop was the neatest thing they found at Mayfest  ;D )    But, we would much rather Mayfest be where it is versus moving to the Brady Arts, for then it would not even be similar sales, but would be another dead weekend that would hurt us (there are only so many weekends in a year).  Also have noticed that sales the days before festivals are slower than average.  For instance this Wednesday was super dead and that is usually a decent day for us.  Will have to run the numbers to see if the festival over all is a plus or not.  Likely a wash to small decline for the week, but getting better exposure for the long run.

First Fridays also hurt our sales, and now that the East End is doing Second Saturdays, that too is starting to decrease sales during that weekend.  I keep thinking that the Deco District needs to do something once a month as well.  Wonder if it would be better to tag onto First Friday's and or Second Saturdays or do a different day entirely?  Whatever it is you do it takes a lot of extra work, coordination with other shops/restaurants, and promoting to pull it off well.  

I could be wrong.  I was under the impression they sold sponsorships and had hundreds of thousands of guides printed.

Was the printing free?

Did Blue Dome pay for a sponsorship?

You're wrong.

Thanks for telling everybody what it is really like owning a store downtown.  Lots of people think that if its open and downtown that it has to work or the owner is just doing something horribly wrong.  You are doing things right and its going but it would be better with more support from people who love downtown.  But it isn't all sunshine and rainbows downtown like so many on here want to believe. I think the downtown stores are a great place to get unique gifts for birthday and christmas.  Everybody needs to shop downtown for their gifts so stores can thrive.  Get more inventory, move to larger buildings, etc.

So Mayfest and/or its sponsors did not print these and hand them out?
http://tulsamayfest.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/2014_Event_Guide_V.3.pdf

. . .and people who came downtown specifically for Mayfest did not venture over to Blue Dome?

Did Blue Dome or their sponsors, spend any money promoting their event in the media?

Perhaps I am wrong and all of the people who came downtown for the Blue Dome Festival wandered over to Mayfest (of which they would had no idea about)?

Why so antagonistic?

Mayfest is a great event, and over the years others have found a way to latch onto it, in less than a constructive way.  Blue Dome contributes nothing to Mayfest, on the contrary it detracts from it.  Of course they are free to hold their festival on the same day, but they shouldn't pretend that they are not riding on another's coattails.

Why did you just make crap up?


Where did you find that information?


Where did you find that information?

I spent 28 hours at Mayfest and went to Blue Dome three times. I like them both.

They are different.

Mayfest is exposing Tulsans to fine art, showcasing two stages of youth performers and a big Kidzone, holding four different indoor galleries including the very best artists in Tulsa, and paying money to bring national acts to play a free show to the public.

Blue Dome is about up-and-coming artists. There is more extremes in art and entrepreneur spirit found in that festival and the feel is more bohemian and hip. It is not intended to be a family festival or a corporate sponsor thing. It is intended to be fun and is more about people than art.

They can co-exist.  
  

So, you are saying no one paid for guides to be printed and handed out?

I found it on the Mayfest website.  Allow me to quote:

The Mayfest Event Guide is a free publication that is available to over 350,000 attendees and visiting artists over the
four-day festival. The 2014 Guide will be available both online at www.tulsamayfest.org and in print. Premium
placement for your advertisement on relevant festival information pages will be available for a $50 fee.

In 2011, they only spent about $17k on advertising.   (Some was probably donated for free.)

http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/731/731279685/731279685_201207_990O.pdf

So that made you say:



Where does it say that?

Mayfest does have an impressive list of sponsors.  I would assume there is a promotional budget of some sort, correct?

What’s the point in sniping at each other?

Yes. Mayfest does have an advertising budget. Yes, Mayfest puts out brochures, has billboards, posters, social media, etc.

Mayfest also works the free media well. It comes from having a savvy staff and well-connected volunteers.

I have been involved with Mayfest for 26 years. I currently serve on the board of directors. I have brought many of my friends in and they are very involved in the festival and most of us were there for 30 plus hours in four days.

I don't do it because I love art. I do it because I love downtown.

His tendency to post crap gets a bit out of hand sometimes.

I have posted nothing that is not supported by Mayfest's own documentation.  Do you wish to continue with your challenge?

How is it supported?

It says "available to" not "We printed"

Where does it say Mayfest spent tens of thousands of dollars on advertising?

Damn Gaspar, your political posts are jacked up enough.  Don't post misinformation about something that is good for the city.

 :-[

What?  Dad slapped mom at the dinner table?

3,500 guides. So only like 90% off

There are billboards, ads in every paper, posters on almost every downtown business and flyers at every hotel and airport.

While your snarkishness provides a nice diversion and endless giggles, it detracts from the conversation.

A few things, and then I'm done with you.

First, when you represent circulation rates when selling advertising or sponsorships it is unethical and there are indeed legal repercussions to misrepresent.  So if Mayfest says they make printed festival guides with the sponsor's advertisements available, your answer in support of Mayfest should be "yes they do."   You certainly would not want to imply that they do not make a printed guide available in sufficient quantities to satisfy the demand of festival goers.

Second, I love Mayfest, it is one of my favorite Tulsa traditions.  I think, and have thought for some time, that it is rather sleazy that Blue Dome opted to take advantage of Mayfest publicity to promote their own festival.  I have been to the Blue Dome festival several times and heard performers and others badmouthing Mayfest.  I have even seen signs for food and drink that say stuff like "Cheaper than Mayfest."  The BD festival is in no way complementary to Mayfest.  It has become Mayfest light.  Less artsy and more hipster, which is fine if you like that sort of thing.

Third, I have done, organized, and sat on the board of several festivals for almost a decade.  I am aware of how much money, time, energy and in-kind effort it takes to promote a successful event. If you wish to challenge the amount of money, both event and sponsor paid, spent on advertising for Mayfest, I'm sure we can get that number for you.  You have made a very silly series of challenges here that detract from the subject simply because you enjoy challenging the poster.   I'm sorry I have this effect on you.

Now. Back on task.  As we can see from some of the other posters, BD's festival has and continues to bleed Mayfest for vendors and public attention.  The sentiment is that Mayfest has become too expensive for some of the vendors and BD is offering better pricing and increasing traffic. It seems that Mayfest may need to become more competitive.

Even if I see a billboard, it’s probably something I expect to see this time of year so it goes in one eye and out the other.  ;)

Your conversation was dishonest.

Who's this "we"?  Are you associated with Mayfest?

Never mind.  I'm through with you.

I went to all three fests on Sunday along with the market at Guthrie Green and the Driller's game.

I like Mayfest a lot, but I give an edge to the BDAF because of the reasons that RM cited, it's more bohemian, it feels more organic and local, lots of local food trucks and you can get a beer that is not 3.2

If I had been a visitor to Tulsa for the first time this weekend I would have been blown away by all of the activity downtown. Heck, even as a lifelong resident I was blown away.

The beer should have been 3.2 or its illegal unless the area is 21 and over.

Mayfest hurts sales for sure for us as well. But it's a cornerstone of history in Downtown so you deal with it.

Mayfest has become more than just Mayfest. And I think that's a good thing. Three festivals, Bedlam baseball and thousands walking around hurts no one in the long run.

We went to all three festivals this weekend. I thought all seemed to be a raging success. We spent Friday and Saturday at BDAF and Mayfest and Sunday at all three.

Mayfest - probably catered least to my group IMO. We walked around a bit (and bought some artwork from John Bramblitt that is just stunning), but the bands and beer prices weren't for us. We looked for some bars to hang out in and enjoy the Mayfest crowds, but the only one that was available was Daily Grill (and the booze there is just as pricey). Buying tickets is also a pain and deterrent. On Friday night, we gave up on the food vendors and went to White Flag for a delicious Selma Hayek burger.

BDAF - we liked a bit of the wares at this festival and got a few things over here as well (less art, more goods like t-shirts, jewelry). The food trucks are fun, but our faves always seemed to be out of food or had a line out the wazoo. We ended up sitting outside at Rusty Crane instead. 

HopJam - I foresee this festival getting better with time. They definitely seemed overwhelmed by the response in the beer zone. We never even went inside because the lines were so long, and the area was so cramped. The bands we saw were all fantastic, and the crowd for the show was a great mix of all ages. We were there for all the bands except Hanson. (We tried to stay for a few songs but couldn't hear the music over the girls singing along. :D)We spent most of the day bouncing between sitting on the patio at Bar 46 and watching the bands with some more moderately priced 3.2+ beer from Bar 46.

Overall, I would definitely attend all three festivals again next year. I'd like to see Mayfest direct more of a budget toward some bigger name bands in the future to draw more of a crowd, but that's just where my group's particular priorities lie. A lot of people I know are under the impression that Mayfest is more for the older set and skip over it when making plans.

FYI, the headline bands for the last 2 years have been aimed squarely at people in their 20's. All new/up & coming national acts.

That being said, Mayfest is on an incredibly small budget. The Center of the universe festival gets much better artists but they have 3x the budget. Mayfest has a higher attendance and open longer so it has much higher overhead. Not counting providing all of the infrastructure for the artist and vendors, the kidzone with kids activities and giveaways, galleries for different classes of artists with cash awards, etc. So only a small percentage is available to pay the musicians. Imagine how small the budget is, then divide by about half. Mayfest does a lot with a tiny amount of cash. Also keep in mind that DTU used to run Mayfest, and the festival kept going when that organization and it's people and money went away.

As far as the tickets, it is a bit of a pain, but overall most people are fine with it and at the end of the festival you can be comfortable knowing that sales taxes are paid on your purchases and that vendor didn't just get in their truck and drive back to Missouri or Louisiana with 100% of their profits.

Do the artists with higher end pieces have to be paid with tickets or do they take cards or cash?

I recall in the early 1990’s they brought in a guy that had a bigger vision for Mayfest.  They moved it down to the Brady District and had many big name music acts, a couple we saw were Ray Charles and Chuck Berry.  People complained that the festival kind of lost it’s soul due to it being directed into more of a music festival than an arts festival.  A little Googling reveals this:


IIRC, Kraizer moved to Tulsa to take the directorship and he was seen as somewhat of an interloper.  I’m glad it moved back to the Main Mall area and resumed it’s original purpose.

I remember that well. Kraiser was a dictator, not a director. But that is when it started to lose, as you say, "its original purpose" imo. Beer and fair food became its most notable raison d'tre. It has never regained that original flavor of a small, offbeat diversion for downtown workers and likely never will. BD comes close but more resembles a small town garage sale. (ducking the bricks and stones....). I love it, but it is what it is.

Everyone I know involved in those years shows PTSD signs when asked about it.

As I recall, when the BDAF started the Blue Dome consisted of only a few bars and restaurants.  Makes sense that they would try to piggy back onto Mayfest to bring some attention to what was a new neighborhood.  Now that the Blue Dome and the BDAF have grown and matured significantly from those early days, it could probably stand on its own, but I don’t really see why it should break up its productive relationship with Mayfest.

I doubt there are many people who are drawn downtown by Mayfest only to get captured by BDAF instead.  The overlapping events help make downtown the place to be that weekend and, as a result, it is most likely beneficial to both.

I find the “art” for the targeted markets at each festival to be quite different and I doubt one festival takes many merchandise sales from the other.

That’s been more or less my opinion on it, they have different appeal.  I guess one could argue that there may be patrons who bypass Mayfest completely who might go if BDAF were on a different weekend.

The year was 1990. I was volunteer chair that year. It was the first time I really volunteered for more than a beer booth shift or two.

We did everything wrong that year. First of all, we moved a successful art festival to a new venue for the sole reason to add big stages and make the main stage a ticketed act each night. Moving killed the booth artists. It turned out that most of patrons were downtown business people who liked buying and taking right to the office. People didn't want to walk around with expensive art or go put it in the car in what was then not the safest neighborhood. Going from a free festival to a ticketed festival each night also didn't pay off. People just stood outside the fence.

Secondly, we made the festival ten days long. It turns out that people only go to Mayfest once and we were hoping people would hang out every night. We doubled our crowds, but the crowd size each day was dramatically lower. The weekends were great, but nobody was around during the week. As volunteer chair, I had to fill way more shifts than I had volunteers. I begged every one I knew to work double shifts. I will owe favors till death for it.

Finally, Al Kraizer was a piece of work. Parking a truck in front of a restaurant was a dick move, and he thought he was in charge of everything.  He also hired a bunch of friends to work as street performers. One I particularly remember was a guy who break-danced to a boom box in the middle of intersections. Al gave the guy a hotel room for ten days and way too much money to do something already out-of-style and not very artsy.

Fort Worth, Texas has a Mayfest the first week of May along the banks of the Trinity River. It's one of the best Mayfest events I ever been to. A radio & TV station do a tug of war across the Trinity River, I dunno if they still do that or not. I have never been to Tulsa's Mayfest.

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I absolutely understand the budget is very small. I also would not want the music to overtake the "original purpose" of the festival. That being said, I would respectfully disagree with the statement that the headliners the past couple years have been up-and-comers. To wit, my classmates and I listened to Bob Schneider in high school and college about 10-15 years ago. I like Bob Schneider, but he's no up-and-coming, new act. Another example from this year's festival, Black Joe Lewis, was a big hit a several years ago - maybe 5-6? - at SXSW. The rest of the bands on the Williams Stage were locals from what I watched. Don't get me wrong, I personally like the headliners; I'm just saying that it's hard to bring in new/younger people or any kind of new audience if you don't have at least one slightly more attention-grabbing name. If Mayfest doesn't have the objective to grow in size at all, then this approach works great. Having attended the festival my whole life, it seems as though the attendance and luster of it just isn't quite what it used to be.

I'm also biased against the whole opening 5th and Main to traffic again though, so maybe my memories are slightly more lustrous because of my missing the gigantic fountain area in the square.  ;D


The big ticket items aren't purchased with tickets (artwork, pottery, etc.), so I'm not convinced of the sales tax argument. Everyone I know thinks the tickets are a huge pain and will go elsewhere to get drinks/food to avoid the overpriced hassle. Again, just my anecdotal experience over many years of attendance.

Could not agree more. In the past two months I’ve been to OKC and Fayetteville and both just seem to blow Tulsa out of the water.  :( OKC had much more interesting boutique shopping in walkable areas (such as Plenty Mercantile) and Fayetteville had a farmers market on just a normal Saturday that was far superior to any in Tulsa, as much as I hate to say it.  Tulsa is definitely moving in the right direction but it seems to flatter itself with comparisons to Austin and Portland, OKC, etc imo and not realize just how far behind those cities it is.

It really does seem like OKC is growing much faster and is becoming the city of choice in Oklahoma while "T" Towne gets  left behind in the dust. They are really taking care of business in OKC. I heard the unemployment rate is around 3% and jobs go begging for employees. Everything we do here in "T" Towne  OKC is already one step ahead of  us. The OKC Marathon is even starting to get national attention. OKC has built one heck of a nifty system of jogging trails, they  run half marathon races  on the Lake Hefner Trail ... Tulsa needs to get it's rump in gear. OKC now has the states tallest skyscraper, something like 900' or 1000' tall. I'm telling ya Tulsa is becoming 2nd fiddle fast. :-\

Maybe we need to steal their Thunder?

I go there a lot. It seems like a totally different animal than Tulsa. We don't need to emulate them, we need to play up our own stuff. Like Blue Dome, Brady, Cherry, Brookside and the River. But mostly we need better paying jobs for the mainstream of the city.

Tulsa has always been second fiddle. They spent $95 Million on a tribal museum when the tribes don't even seem to want it, and are thinking about spending another $40M on it, finishing it at close to 3x budget. OKC was jealous of Tulsa's river development opportunities so they built a river of their own while denying us even basic funds to do dam repairs on ours.

OKC is Dallas, Tulsa is Austin. Austin will never big bigger than Dallas, and will never have taller buildings or better funding.... but personally I can't stand Dallas.

And boom goes the dynamite. That's pretty well put. I can't stand OKC.  Closest I'll go to it is Stroud.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

OKC is flat and ugly.  Tulsa is voluptuous and curvy.  They are just jealous. 

I used to live in OKC.  My dog ran away one day, and a week later you could still see him on the horizon.

The beer scene is better in Tulsa than OKC.

Tulsa. The pretty Oklahoma City.  ;D

Coop and Mustang would probably disagree.

OKC *is* ugly and after about a few hours I think why am I visiting here again and am ready to go home. Tulsa is a far more beautiful city. I don't want Tulsa to BE OKC but I just wish we had more concentrated retail stores in our districts downtown.

Spent any time around the remodeled Myriad Gardens?  Plaza District?  Broadway aka Automobile Alley?  Deep Deuce? Plaza Court area?  Hudson & 8th?  Crown Heights?  Mesta Park & Heritage Hills?  All great areas that rival any public space, entertainment district  and historic neighborhood Tulsa has to offer.  Yes, parts of OKC resemble 'Merica's largest truck stop, but don't let your Green Country Glasses shade out the desirable parts of OKC that many Tulsans would feel right at home.

Not sure, how a thread about Tulsa's best downtown festival in one weekend turned into bashing OKC, but jeeze the little brother syndrome came out quick.

On the original topic, I'm not sure how'd I'd rank them.  They are all very different strokes for different folks.  Personally, I'd rather see this programming spread out on separate weekends rather than all lumped into one weekend but that is me.  Besides, the best downtown festival is really Tulsa Tough.  Nothing better than the Friday night crits under the lights in the Blue Dome District.

And Roughtail, Dead Armadillo (for now), Huebert’s, Anthem, Battered Boar, Bell Isle, Hicktown Brewery, and probably a few others I’m forgetting.

Is Mustang actually brewing in the OKC area now?

FWIW, my wife grew up in Midwest City.  She is eternally grateful we ended up in Tulsa and not OKC when we got married as was the original plan.  She likes the cycling scene better, Tulsa is prettier, and it doesn’t have quite the sprawl OKC metro does.

If you just sit around and count breweries then sure.  I didn't know companies constitute a scene.

How do you define it then since you made the initial comment about Tulsa having a superior beer scene?

I don’t see how the craft brew culture is any different there unless you are referring to some comments on the Oklahoma Craft Beer FB page in relation to participation in Craft Beer week in OKC.  They’ve got Tapwerks & McNellies as well as other places you can enjoy craft beer (some people seem to think Tapwerks is better than McNellies).  They have more breweries and brew pubs.  That would indicate to me that their scene is a little better established considering Tulsa hasn’t had a brew pub in 15+ years and we currently have two functioning breweries with two more to come that I know of.

There’s a few liquor stores I can think of that cater to the craft beer crowd pretty well there, that’s probably an area we do excel at as I can think of about six or seven really well-stocked stores with a great variety of craft brew.

Tulsa had a brew pub 2 years ago but it got shut down.  I'm basing it on what I hear from people who work in the beer industry in OKC and do events in Tulsa and OKC.  There are other little things like our homebrew club is 30 years old and theirs is 4.

Denver has a Coors Brewery, obviously they are superior.

I agree spreading them out would be better, mainly put Blue Dome in its own weekend.  MayFest and Hopjam could stay on the same weekend though.

Center of the Universe is better than any of the music festivals in OKC.  But Deadcenter is a better film festival than anything in Tulsa.  It's all good, as you can drive 90 min and go to their cool stuff and they can do the same for ours. 

So it’s purely subjective based on who you talk to.

I didn’t count Pi as a brew pub since that idiot managed to get locked down in less than, what, a couple of months?

Personally, I’d rather go to a tap room like McNellies rather than being served 3.2 stouts, porters, lagers, and ales.

Why have Hopjam on the same weekend as Mayfest but not the BDAF?  Seems like Hopjam did pretty well for a first time event and would not have trouble drawing people in without any other major festivals playing in the area that weekend.

Hopjam is a keynote event for "Hanson Fan Appreciation Weekend" which has been the same weekend as Mayfest every year for years. They do it the same weekend since Mayfest was their official debut. They also had their event spin up as Mayfest spins down to coordinate the two. Their music started at 5 while Mayfest ends at 6.

BDAF could stay on the same weekend or go. If they moved, then artists could do both. I just want the hatred on one or the other to end.