The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Michael Overall: Tulsa isn't so jealous of OKC anymore
Posted: Monday, June 2, 2014 12:00 am | Updated: 9:57 am, Mon Jun 2, 2014.
By Michael Overall World Staff Writer


While we never liked to admit it, Tulsa used to be a little jealous of Oklahoma City and the way it actually had a downtown.

Technically, of course, we had one, too. But it was just kind of sitting here collecting dust. And Tulsans who didn’t have to work downtown weren’t entirely sure where it was.

Meanwhile, downtown Oklahoma City had Bricktown, a ballpark, the Myriad Gardens and real live human beings walking around, even after dark.

Like any good rivalry, one team’s success pushed the other side to get better. And downtown Tulsa probably wouldn’t be what it is now if downtown Oklahoma City hadn’t been what it was 10 or 15 years ago.
Now, however, I think we can stop taking our inspiration from the other end of the Turner Turnpike.

In recent years, while we’ve been reinvigorating and beautifying our downtown with the BOK Center, the Guthrie Green and ONEOK Field, Oklahoma City has been making a few changes to its downtown, too.

First came that glorified ditch in Bricktown, where tourists are supposed to be impressed by a boat ride that takes them a block and a half.

It was the most ridiculous thing in town until a giant, metal chicken claw showed up near a pedestrian bridge, dangling precariously over the eastbound lanes of Interstate 40.

I’m not sure exactly what it is, but one theory is that a tornado blew over a cellphone tower. And instead of cleaning it up, officials decided to call it “public art.”

But that’s not even the ugliest part of downtown Oklahoma City anymore. The skyline is dominated — no, not just dominated; overwhelmed — by the 844-foot Devon Tower.

An eyesore for miles around, it’s the prairie’s most conspicuous display of overcompensation, making every other building look like it came from a toy train set.

Some people in Tulsa would like to see a new skyscraper replace the vast parking lots that stretch across the south side of downtown. But honestly, if the new structure is going to look like Mordor, I’d rather keep the parking crater.
At least you can’t see it from the suburbs.

My family spent Memorial Day weekend in Oklahoma City, where we took advantage of the fine dining, world-class museums and, most importantly, the outlet mall.

Michael Overall 918-581-8383
michael.overall@tulsaworld.com

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/columnists/michaeloverall/michael-overall-tulsa-isn-t-so-jealous-of-okc-anymore/article_1335a05b-a29e-54b4-9201-4747ac1a74b1.html

Anyone else cringe reading the above?  Disgusting for a local "reporter" to take such a jab at OKC when inter-city relations are actually improving.

That "article" is beyond stupid. The World is really sinking.

Having the disdain for the city down the turnpike I do, I chuckled a little at this.   :P

However I do agree that it seems a little juvenile.

Still didn't stop me from chuckling however.  Maybe that makes me juvenile.

The reporter is a good guy who gets to write a personal column every once in a while. The management of the paper likes their workers to be real people instead of reporters sometimes.

Some of the reporters are funny. Mostly, they get to write for them, not for their bosses.

Methinks the reporter doth protest too much

 I decided to cancel my subscription when I read one of their editors describe the current OK legislature as inept and infantile but ssid the democrats were no better. He gave no examples. Dem legislation is ignored. We are basically a one party state but it's still our fault too?

That kind of editorial writing is lazy and  political.

Tulsa>Okc

We should never consider Tulsa "second class" to OKC.  OKC has some good stuff - he even mentioned museums - and is interesting to visit.  They have a Del Taco and we don't!!  We have a much nicer "ambience" overall.  They can keep their basketball - it still doesn't trump Tulsa's 'everything else'!

He certainly overdid it (maybe he has been reading my posts and taking inspiration...??  Another "earworm" moment.).  The single biggest problem with OKC is not what they are doing or not doing downtown, but the legislature which just happens to be located there.


If he wants to compare ridiculous "public art" - the claw...then he needs to drive the Creek Turnpike and see that mess of concrete stuff on the noise abatement wall.  It is just a giant clump of "stuff" with no apparent 'design' or coherence.  It is way to busy to sort out what is obviously an attempt to get all of Oklahoma's historical culture into one place as possible.  Didn't work very well.

I read this story as an attempt at humor that missed the intended mark.  OKC has a lot of good things going on.  Unfortunately, Tulsans and the rest of the state are paying for a lot of it.

I've noticed a little more editorializing in what I could consider news stories lately.  Use of adjectives in places where none is needed to convey the event or act but an descriptor is used to cast an opinion on them.

Personally, I find Tulsa superior.  If I wanted to live in OKC, I would.  I just don't know what is accomplished by publishing this piece.

It's the Faux News effect - if everyone doesn't keep up with their extremism, they are afraid they will lose market share.  As has happened at the oversensationalism of the  Weather Channel - they have become totally un-watchable due to the clowns who now own it!!  Geez what a mess they are!!  (Blackstone and Bain with a dash of NBC....explains it all.)



And you are right about Tulsa.  It is superior.

Yes, OKC can't help that it's so butt ugly, bless it's heart.  It's not at all right to be so insensitive like that in the local paper.

Downtown isn't too bad.  The rest of it though..

Its what you might call a "value" town. The pay scales seem higher. The housing costs are lower. The arts and entertainment offerings are varied and high level. Two large universities are nearby and it boasts the highest rated public high school in the state. Its a good value for one who doesn't prize black dirt, hills, a classier downtown and casinos surrounding us. Our suburbs are a wash with theirs. They have better highways. They have the Thunder we have the BOK arena. They have to deal with bumpkin legislators. We have Mark Wayne.

Most ratings of the "City" seem to underscore those attributes.

No doubt about it though, we are the little brother and we act like it.

 

OKC is light years ahead of Tulsa still to this day. And I love Tulsa, but that's a reality.

The Downtown area in OKC is way, way better kept than Tulsa. We have more history in our architecture, but they match or top us at just about everything else. We like to talk about Downtown, but outside of the Brady we really haven't backed up that talk.

Have you been there?  Light years???

Most of the year I spend more than half my time in the OKC metro area down through Norman...and if you go to Penn Square, well ya got another mall....  Downtown is ok and there is always some stuff going on, but when you get past basketball (OKC) and baseball (Tulsa), one really doesn't have that much more over the other.  Different but similar.  No light years at all.

H, how many tour buses and school activity buses do you see visiting from OKC or central OK in Tulsa? Few. On the other hand OKC has lots of tour buses visiting from this area. That is a true indicator of which area offers more. They aren't light years ahead, but they are ahead in many categories.

I tire of hearing about their muddy ditch. We have one too and have steadfastly refused to fill it for decades.

I've lived in both cities.  There are good and bad parts of each one.  Tulsa is a prettier place overall and has better recreation opportunities, and OKC has nothing quite like our midtown area with Utica Square.  Their downtown overall is more developed but Tulsa's is catching up fast.  Tulsa has had superior neighborhood districts in Cherry St and Brookside and OKC is now developing similar areas like Plaza, Uptown and Midtown that are pretty cool.  OKC has a huge advantage in having OU in its backyard, and a significant government/military presence.  Leadership in OKC has generally been more progressive and growth-oriented.

Not many at either end...most of my turnpike travels are later in the day, so I usually see buses on the road and there are often several heading both directions....don't see them every trip, but maybe 1/2 of the time.

They are ahead in some things (I think I have at least implied that if not stated it) - they have Cattleman's Steakhouse and Del Taco.  Plus some pretty cool museums.  But we have a lot of stuff, too.  We don't need to duplicate - we should innovate!  But then we got Dewey....we could do SOOO much better!


I don't really care about the ditches at either end.  The OK river through downtown OKC is kind of contrived and "forced"....it is nice to walk along it once in a while just as a relaxing wind down, Myriad is also good for that.  On the other end, Woodward Park is magnificent, even if the city of Tulsa can't seem to get the restroom act together in that park.  They have been truly disgusting every time I have been there - yesterday being the most recent visit!!    Geez...can't we clean that thing up once in a while??  Let's spend a little of those big tax receipts we are getting to maybe even rebuild the things!

I bet we make big points impressing out of town visitors with those!

I did get some nice pictures of the gardens, though, so that at least helps a little bit!

  I do think OKC has done some things right.  But I do think Tulsa still has the potential to be something really great if we could get our act together.  Their city leadership with our city… that might have been a superb combo.  We had and have all the right pieces, just not the leadership to move us forward.

Here soon our downtown, and nearby areas, will have enough new people living in it, enough of the right kind of progress going on, and new businesses in it that "get it" that we will be able to band together and finally "let the old guard have it" to get the things we want.  I have hope, I KNOW, we are going to be great again, even if it takes a while and I have to do it myself lol.

Another thing to consider when comparing OKC to Tulsa, it's more accurate to compare OKC to Tulsa County and nearby suburbs.  Tulsa County is still smaller than OKC proper.  Look at all the things within Tulsa county and right nearby, the oft overlooked but beautiful downtown Sapulpa with its blocks of old historic buildings, neat little downtown Sand Springs, revitalizing Jenks area, downtown Broken Arrow Rose District and the area around it's Bass Pro, all the growth going on in Owasso, still improving Cherry Streets and Brookside, Whittier Square, Utica Square, Guthrie Green and the Brady Arts District, some great lakes really quite near downtown, etc. etc.

 

OKC City Limits: 621 sq mi - 610,613 population
Tulsa County: 587 sq mi - 622,409 population

“The Ditch” that Overall was referring to was the canal.   I think it’s a neat feature though we’ve never ridden on one of the boats.

As far as what they did with the “Oklahoma” River to the south of Downtown, it’s nothing short of brilliant.  Olympians now train there for rowing and kayaking.  It’s not as aesthetically pleasing as Tulsa’s Riverparks but in terms of recreational utilization it’s a home run and it’s use is not restricted only to athletes.

Aside from all that, Tulsa has Burnco BBQ and Marshall’s Brewery. 

Battle over.  We win.

They still have Cattleman's.  Battle won, but war not quite over....but we are close to winning!

Cattlemen’s is consistently good, but there is nothing that compelling about it other than it’s been there since Jesus was teaching carpentry.

Plenty of places in Tulsa to get a great country breakfast or steak without driving to OKC.  One restaurant I will drive to the area for is Green Chile Kitchen on Route 66 in Yukon.  You can’t get anything like it in Tulsa.

We had a 24 hour mountain bike race in Palo Duro Canyon this last weekend south of Amarillo.  We started to go to Big Texan after the awards ceremony on Sunday but it looked way too packed and I wanted to get home after 48 hours with no sleep and feeling physically punished.  Anyone ever eat there?  Some of our teammates thought it was pretty good, but then again they had the same sleep deprivation issues we had so it could have been Alpo for all I know.

It's been about five years or so since i went (friend of mine and I flew when he got his instrument certificate so we flew a 172 with an IFR flight plan out there) but I have been.  It was good, but I've had as good in town and in state.  It's gimmicky, with its all you can eat challenge.  That's what gives it notoriety, I think.

Haven't been since the 60's (a few times back then...never tried to get the free steak - a man's gotta know his limitations).  It's one of those places where everyone should go at least once just to cross it off the bucket list, but then you really don't need to bother again....it was edible every time I went, but Cattleman's is close by.  Plus, I have the home restaurant which is where I would rather do steak anyway.   And SWMBO has never been satisfied with any steakhouse we have ever gone to - I spoiled her very badly many decades ago....

MC has the same problem.

For a city defined by sprawl, my experience is that those living in OKC's burbs and within city limits but far from downtown don't seem to have the hostility towards downtown and actually support downtown development.  It seems that in Tulsa, South Tulsans and Tulsa suburbanites have a serious hostility towards our downtown.  It really holds us back in my opinion and is a reason why downtown development is progressing slower than it could if the entire community recognized downtown as the heart of the area and the billboard, if you will, of the city.

http://www.thelostogle.com/2014/06/03/this-writer-for-the-tulsa-world-doesnt-like-oklahoma-city/#more-45124

Not all.  My wife and I work DT while living in extreme South Tulsa.  My neighbors on both sides work DT.  We all frequent DT for entertainment when we're able.

I believe there are a lot more Southies supporting DT's improvement than there are Downtowners and mid-towners giving a rat'sass about anything near my home.

South Tulsa can rot and die, Southie.

Love,
Midtowner

Your mother, White Sugar.

Squeezes,

Southie