The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Maybe other cities have this issue, but I've noticed that Tulsa seems to have collectively developed the mentality that when the light turns yellow, 1-3 cars are supposed to make a left turn. I've almost been hit a few times as the intersection isn't even clear yet when they head into the intersection. Anyone else notice this? The real danger is that at the end of a light cycle, traffic going straight is generally people already in motion, whereas left turners are generally taking off from a stop.

I'm wondering if a proposal could be made that the left turn lanes turn red in advance of the straight-through lanes.

Used to be I’d see a red light runner once a week or so.

Now I just expect to see it at every stop light or every other.  Our enforcement sucks.

Since it is legal for the first car to pull into the intersection on a green to wait to turn left, it is also legal for that car to "run" the red light and turn left to clear the intersection.

Making the left turn light turn red sooner wouldn't help unless we make it illegal for one to pull into the intersection to wait for a break in traffic.

As far as I'm aware, it is not legal to enter an intersection if you can't clear it.

Unless the law has changed, I remember explicitly being told my my driver's ed instructor and reading in the manual that the first car can legally pull into the intersection. I believe all other cars have to be behind the white line, however.

FWIW, I regularly do this, and have done it in front of police officers and not been pulled over. If I'm wrong, I'd love for someone to correct me if they can find the official wording. I've always been under the impression that this was legal.

Maybe it has changed, but about a decade ago I was ticketed at Sheridan and 244 for doing just that. The cop had no sympathy that I was the only car that made it through the light. If you can't pass through you must no enter the intersection.

However, now I spend much time driving through the city with my job. Many of the lights do turn red and have a several second lapse before the green lights activate from the other lanes. In effect, for a few seconds traffic is stopped in all four directions.

The result is that multiple cars are now running those reds.

The handbook (http://www.dps.state.ok.us/dls/pub/ODM.pdf) doesn't really cover it

It sure looks legal to me...   

http://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/17866/Title37_000.pdf

606(a)

Vehicular traffic facing the green signal shall proceed right, left or straight through, unless a sign at such place prohibits any such movements; provided that the right-of-way shall be yielded to other vehicles or pedestrians lawfully in the intersection or signalized location, and a vehicle which enters on a green signal may complete such movement with safety even after the yellow or red signals appear.

Cool, so show this to the cop then tell him to cram it.

I wish I could find him but he's likely retired!

So it seems legal, but I still think it's courting disaster and encouraging red-light running. Thoughts?

Idiot short left turn arrows encourage red-light running as much as anything, especially after waiting at some of Tulsa's long lights.  Long lights can be beneficial by reducing the number of start/stop cycles.

Getting drivers to start moving before the car in front of them clears the intersection would get more cars through a signal cycle. 

My sister was taught in Driver's Ed to wait 5 seconds after the car in front of her starts moving before she starts.  Seems excessive to me since normal following is 2 to 3 seconds.

Being paid overtime to sit in court when a citizen contests a bad ticket doesnt do much to discourage bad tickets.

People need to take public safety seriously & stop being so damn greedy & selfish.

Look at these statistics. Tulsa is on this list twice!

According to State Farm Insurance Company, the top 10 most dangerous traffic intersections in the United States are:
10. Sacramento, California. Fair Oaks Boulevard and Howe Avenue.
9. Metairie, Lousiana. Clearview Parkway and Veterans Memorial Boulevard.
8. Plano, Texas. State Highway 121 and Preston Road.
7. Phoenix, Arizona. 19th Avenue and Northern Avenue.
6. Tulsa, Oklahoma. 71st Street and Memorial Drive.
5. Tulsa, Oklahoma. 51st Street and Memorial Drive.
4. Phoenix, Arizona. 7th Street and Bell Road.
3. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Grand Avenue and Roosevelt Boulevard.
2. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Red Lion Road and Roosevelt Boulevard.
1. Pembroke Pines, Florida. Flamingo Road and Pines Boulevard.


 :-[ (http://www.amazon.com/?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&linkCode=ur2&tag=debcuseff-20&linkId=MWHZFRUYQN3KKOHM)  >:(

They actually changed the light cycle at 71st and memorial so you can't really turn left on yellow/red without getting hit.

Dude, that was from back at least 2001.  http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/east/2001/06/28/12403.htm

Just do whatever you think you can get away with.......

I remember hearing the COP making a statement XMAS 2014 that the police were going to crack down on drivers that entered the intersection in the designated left turn lane without the appropriate protected left green arrow.

Oddly specific, probably driven by a grant.
This may have been one:  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/drivers-in-tulsa-be-warned-a-police-crackdown-is-underway/article_52aec132-4e01-532c-b023-43d195cd8c3f.html?mode=story

Tulsa City Ordinance Title 37 Section 606(A)... a vehicle which enters on a green signal may complete such movement with safety even after the yellow or red signals appear.
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/82082/title_37_s20_corr.pdf

There may be a distinction there. If you thought the intersection was clear enough and you had time to exit before the lights turn yellow/red, then obviously you should be able to continue even though the light turns. However, those who enter the intersection and "park" there waiting for an opportunity have not just entered. They are gambling that even if no else makes it, they will.

 That is really pretty dangerous considering that traffic coming from adjacent streets may be moving when they arrive at the intersection and never see you in time. Of course these days you must assume two or three cars are going to run the red anyway.

If you had the chance, how would you re-write the ordinance to reflect that?

"I know a bad turn when I see it"

Perhaps by defining more clearly what "entering" means and when you may enter? Or enumerating the time in seconds. Lots of people will wait till the light is about to turn yellow and enter with the idea of turning on the yellow. Of course the opposing traffic intends to run that yellow and the red.

Some ideas:
1. Make the left turn lane turn red before straight
2. No left on green in major intersections 7am-7pm
3. Make it illegal to enter an intersection in which you cannot currently clear

Some intersections are left turn last.  I really don't understand the timing of some of the lights on Memorial south of 91st.
Many intersections are already marked left on arrow only.  I believe 71st & Memorial is one of them.
Good on the surface but without an arrow, there may never be an opportunity to turn left at some of the intersections I must traverse.