The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Just ran across this while looking for something else.

I bet this bit really pissed the OKC folks off:

Tulsa also has more of a big-city feel than Oklahoma City, Webb said.

“It seems more like the Dallas or Austin areas of Texas — more cosmopolitan, less rural,” he said.

Link (http://newsok.com/why-some-major-retailers-pick-tulsa-over-oklahoma-city/article/5380820/?page=2)

Reading some of the comments is hilarious.  They seem to think that because they have an NBA basketball team, it automatically makes them 'more cosmopolitan'.

They wouldn't have an NBA team without Hurricane Katrina.

Heh....Here's a gem.....

http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/best-trips-2015/#/canal-bricktown-oklahoma-city_85215_600x450.jpg

Their downtown is nicer (for now at least) and they have more people.  Their sprawl is worse than ours, but their suburbanites seem to like their OKC core better than Tulsa suburbanites who complain constantly about parking, or crime, or whatever other nonesense they can come up with for why they hate our urban core.  Having the Thunder downtown and the whole city's support of them kind of seems to bring them together.  We don't have that unfortunately.  I'd say OKC has a closer resemblance to Dallas, and Tulsa has a closer resemblance to Austin.  Both are pretty loose comparisons though.

Well, looking at that article then saw this article.... OKC getting H&M. http://newsok.com/article/5440355?slideout=1  Would much much rather have had an H&M here in Tulsa than an Urban Outfitters.  Sucks they got one of those first. Sad that it is in a mall, just doesn't seem right.   Course would still rather go to London to shop at the ones there.  ;D

We are getting an H&M.....

Where.....?

H&M is a discount retailer specializing in cheaply made euro fashion knock offs. My daughter loves the place, but I fail to see anything special about it. A mall is exactly where it should be located, it would be downright depressing if that was to go into Utica.

Why on earth get a cheap T-shirt or sweats from Wallyworld and look like a bum when you can get cheap everyday clothes that look stylish? Thats the point.  Look nice everyday for almost nothing.  Spend the good money for the quality clothes for when it matters.  Perhaps thats the difference between what I see when I go to bigger cities, or to Europe, and are far more likely to see everyday people, looking a whole lot nicer than the average person walking around here.  

And hey, I always get compliments on the clothes I get there. "Nice Jacket! Where did you get it?" Suit type jackets with a modern look and tailored cut for us slim people versus the usual box type you find at the mall, and for only 40-50 bucks. Get a season or two out of them and your doing great.  What I mostly like about them is their clothes fit me.  I don't care if something is expensive or cheap, if it has a nice look and fits my tall skinny butt I am all about it lol. We went to the mall last week, went into numerous stores.  Spent hours looking and looking and looking. Didn't find one single pair of 29W-34L jeans, pants, etc. Nada. Sucks.  And I don't starve myself into a grumpily little turd to have a slender waist and then look like I am wearing a freaking mumu!  :P I want Jackets and shirts that fit.  H&M fits, and if I get paint on something, which is inevitable. No big deal. Didn't cost anything anyway.  

Again, why on earth get a cheap T-shirt, sweats or jeans from Wallyworld and look like a bum when you can get cheap stylish clothes for everyday that look great instead?

One of the things I like about Oklahoma is being able to wear jeans and a T-shirt without being arrested by the style police.  I don't wear ripped up trashed out stuff although that seems to be the style for some. FWIW, I buy my T-shirts a JC Penney's when they are on sale and get my 569 Levi's where I can when they are on sale if they have some reasonably decent colors. I don't know why they don't make the 569s in plain old indigo blue.  In cooler weather I add a long sleeve heavy weave cotton shirt.


I don't care to wear the "stylish" look. It's not me.  I'm happy in jeans and a T-shirt.

You're under arrest, you have the right to remain silent, anything you wear can and will be used against you in the court of public opinion...

Catch me if you can.   ;D

That's fine and I am glad you find it valuable for you, but it's still just a discount store.

I've always thought that Tulsa "feels" more like a Midwestern city like KC while OKC is decidedly a southwestern city.

Tulsa has always seemed like Omaha or a smaller and less run down Kansas City while OKC is a much smaller and more run down Dallas.

Tulsa benefits because its a much more compact city.  Retailers like a high level of income within a concentrated area and that's easy in Tulsa.  In OKC, it's more difficult because there are numerous wealthy enclaves scattered throughout the sprawl.  The money is here, but its a hard sell to retailers when it doesn't fit into their usual formula for deciding locations.  Tulsa also is a larger retail market despite being a smaller metropolitan area due to the fact eastern Oklahoma is much more populated than western Oklahoma.  I also think Tulsa avoid's some of the negative Oklahoma stereotypes that get associated with OKC for better or for worse.

I doubt "big city feel" has much to do with it since Costco is going into Wichita and that has way less "big city feel" than Tulsa or OKC.

By what measure is the Tulsa retail market larger than OKC's?  

Here are the retail number for the two metro areas for this year, according to the Center for Economic & Management Research at OU's Price College of Business:

Date    Area    TOTAL
RETAIL TRADE
OKC (Metro population:  1,336,767)
1/2015    OKLAHOMA CITY MSA    $1,182,220,332   $884.39 per capita
2/2015    OKLAHOMA CITY MSA    $1,158,902,885
3/2015    OKLAHOMA CITY MSA    $1,181,098,101
4/2015    OKLAHOMA CITY MSA    $1,180,700,354
5/2015    OKLAHOMA CITY MSA    $1,228,299,725
6/2015    OKLAHOMA CITY MSA    $1,226,039,917   $917.17 per capita

Tulsa (Metro population:  969,224)
1/2015    TULSA MSA    $824,431,172   $850.61 per capita
2/2015    TULSA MSA    $809,453,506
3/2015    TULSA MSA    $835,862,202
4/2015    TULSA MSA    $826,969,855
5/2015    TULSA MSA    $851,818,521
6/2015    TULSA MSA    $849,340,048   $904.30 per capita

http://origins.ou.edu/ (http://origins.ou.edu/)  http://www.ou.edu/content/price/centersresearch/cemr/cemr_data.html (http://www.ou.edu/content/price/centersresearch/cemr/cemr_data.html)

Tulsa>Okc.....

That equation can't be denied. It's simple math.
Tulsa > OKC = suck it.

Went to H&M in Manhattan a couple of years ago.  Thought it was awful.  Think of Forever 21 for a slightly older demo.

If Tulsa’s demographics and economics are on the radar list of “cool” retailers, we really should have no problem dictating to those developers better construction principles we should expect from their developments in Tulsa rather than settling for more layup concrete dreck and an over-abundance of surface parking.

But we don't.  Without some major changes, we won't.

If we could elect an administration with some real vision rather than troglodytes we’d be all good.

Well yeah...but how will that get done?

Jesus, Simonson is still in a position of power.

Tulsa's trade area is larger.  Eastern Oklahoma is much more populated than western Oklahoma.  That matters for destination retailers like Costco.  Second, Tulsa's wealth is concentrated while OKC's is spread out in different pockets across the metro.  It doesn't matter if there really is more wealth in OKC, retailers look for concentrated wealth.  Tulsa has it and OKC doesn't.

I kind of have to call BS on the COSTCO comments, where they open stores based on population density and wealth/population is not true. As an example, there is a COSTCO in Roseburg Oregon which has a population of 22,000 people, and Douglas County has a population of  106,000. Taking into account the surrounding counties, you are still looking at less than 500,000 people. If you want an affluent county, you can go to Monterey County, in California where the two largest areas are Monterey and Salinas, (picture Monterey as Tulsa without the bay, and Salinas is McAlester including a state prison) with a total of 456,000 people they have two COSTCO's, one in Monterey and one in Salinas, they are roughly 20 miles apart, and just north of there in Santa Cruz and Santa Cruz County which is 262,000 people there is a COSTCO there as well.

The problem with getting a COSTCO in Oklahoma has been they have their own vineyard and winery and sell their private label wines in their stores. In Oregon this is not a problem as they can sell wine and real beer in their stores while liquor is sold in state stores, and in other states like California and Arizona state laws allow the sale of wine, real beer, and liquor in grocery style stores.

Also in Oregon, there are COSTCO locations in Medford, Eugene/Springfield, Albany, Salem, and Bend which most of these are somewhat smaller areas than the Tulsa metro area. Sorry, I did not include the Portland/Vancouver area that people love to compare Tulsa to, there are seven COSTCO locations.

Someone told me Trader Joe’s is working around our laws by having a liquor store built adjacent to their new market which can sell Three Buck Chuck.  At least, that’s what I’ve heard.  Seems COSTCO could do the same thing.

Didn't I read here sometime  ago that COSTCO was going to do something similar?

What I heard was they contracted with a local person to "own" the liquor store attached to Costco.

Maybe that was it, anything to protect the children from seeing such evil and vile things.

Yea, you don't want children seeing food.  Food addictions and abuse kill about 8 times more people in Oklahoma than alcohol does, not to mention blindness, amputations, and other debilitations it causes.  Best to ban it and keep it out of sight.  That liberal cry for "education and responsible, healthy eating" crap is absurd.  Families are being destroyed and children right now are being harmed by food abuse.  We have got to have stricter laws keeping it away from people.

Forgive me William, I should have said I was being snarky and sarcastic. But what you said reminds me of back in the early 80's when Tulsa Cable had the "Escapade" channel and then the "Playboy Channel" there as a group called "The Green Country Society for Decency" that wanted Tulsa Cable to not carry those channels, and the one woman that seemed to be in any interview was the same woman complaining about the strip clubs that were at 21st & Hwy 169 that could not say the word "condom" to save her life. She called them "comderums" and claimed people were "doing things" in her front yard, and leaving them in the street.

Oh, I got ya.  I was adding to the snark.  ;)