The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

The Press Club pushed three or four tables together to accommodate all of us, nearly every seat taken by somebody born and raised in Tulsa or somebody who has lived here long enough to qualify for honorary lifetime status. The age demographic skewed a little toward the “young professional” crowd, but with a few gray hairs spread around, too — most notably on my own head.

After a few minutes of small talk, somebody mentioned house hunting, which naturally prompted a question about what neighborhoods were being considered.

“I’d like to stay in South Midtown,” the house hunter said, mentioning a few specific possibilities that were all south of 51st Street.

“Excuse me,” I interrupted. “Did you mean to say south of Midtown?”

No, she insisted. South Midtown.

So I asked these friends and acquaintances of mine how many of them were familiar with such a place and where I could find it. Roughly half of them had never heard of it before, while the other half declared that there is indeed a part of Tulsa known as South Midtown. A couple of them even claimed to live there, although the boundaries seemed rather vague.

After listening to them try to describe it for a while, I proposed defining it as “pretty much any part of South Tulsa developed before 2005.”

“Well,” one of them objected, “maybe before 1995. It’s hard to say.”

This was actually the second time within a week that I had heard someone use the term South Midtown, the first coming with directions to a business near 81st Street and Yale Avenue. Of course, being the Midtown snob that I am — is Midtown snob redundant? — I assumed this was just a business trying to appropriate some caché, the way places on South Peoria Avenue stretch the definition of Brookside.

But maybe there’s something to this South Midtown thing after all. As suburban development inches ever closer to the Red River, the older parts of South Tulsa are taking on a unique character of their own, still not as traditional or as walkable as parts of Midtown itself, but not as squeaky clean and spread-out as the newest subdivisions along 121st Street, either. The architecture and development patterns are recognizably late 20th century, not early 21st. And over time, that difference is only going to become more noticeable.

As a human body grows, cells split and divide. So, too, a city. What we might be witnessing here is the emergence of two distinct areas where there used to be only one — South Midtown and New South Tulsa. Or maybe we should call them South Midtown and North Plano.

No Midtown Past 51st....Or Yale....

No Midtown Past 51st....Or Yale....

Although White City is just east of Yale and is one of the definitive classic Tudor/bungalow-style brick house neighborhoods with a pond.

Although White City is just east of Yale and is one of the definitive classic Tudor/bungalow-style brick house neighborhoods with a pond.

South Midtown sounds needy and desperate as if they need validation to live in South Tulsa. Either own where you live or move to midtown.

South Midtown sounds needy and desperate as if they need validation to live in South Tulsa. Either own where you live or move to midtown.

On a similar note, I saw a Tulsa World article about an event which occurred at 71st and Peoria, which TW called "west Tulsa"...

East of Yale is not  Midtown. Definitely not the portion south of 15th. South of 15th the houses are known for their mid-century modern styling, large single story floor plans, and were sold as "suburban style living" back in the day. It was constructed to be an alternative to midtown.

Even between Yale and Harvard, calling it midtown is a bit of a stretch. There are pockets that certainly are midtown (between I-244 and 15th, for example) but many areas that are not (between 36th and 41st). I live near 31st and Harvard, but comparing that "midtown" to Maple Ridge or 21st and Lewis...  I'd say the classic midtown ends at Harvard and ends at 41st as the southern most edge. "Expanded" midtown ends at Yale and ends at 51st. I refuse to call anything south of 51st midtown. East of Yale is very dubious, Sheridan gets ridiculous.

"South Midtown" to me means Brookside.  ;D

I can't tell what makes you guys so sure of what and where the "real" midtown is but I will note that you are using period of time and architecture as the main criteria. That makes your designations arguable. You can find mixtures of style and age all over town in pockets as the city grew in spastic spurts.

When those areas around 41st & Harvard and 51st and Yale were developed they were considered east and south. In the late fifties, 51st and Yale was the edge of town and the only expressways available were I-44 and the "Bee-line". It took a lot of time to go from downtown to 51st and Harvard to visit Southern Hills. Now, you can get anywhere in town in about 15 minutes or less using one of the expressways surrounding the city, I-44, I-244, 51/64, 169, Creek and 75. The grid system for neighborhoods ended about the time Ranch Acres and Southern Hills began.

Its easier to determine "old Tulsa" by those two criteria. It seems to me, midtown is anything inside that circle of expressways. That area offers lots of different styles and ages.

It is what you want it to be I guess.

My neighborhood is called Southside. It includes Lee school at 21st and Cincinnati. It was developed around 1910. So am I living in old South Tulsa?

Cars were pretty ubiquitous when most of the area was developed though.

Uptown is the area between SoBo (18th & Boston) and the IDL.

Midtown = (N) Downtown/I-244, (S) I-44, (E) Sheridan, (W) the Arkansas River

Honestly the best name for south Tulsa between I-44 and the Creek is Uptown.  Downtown > Midtown > Uptown 
It even reflects the topography of that area.  :P

Growing up we called the area south of the Creek "Deep South Tulsa"

You can't just change an unofficial name that was given by the citizens and has been there for decades.

It would be like North Tulsa deciding, "we don't like that name! We are going to start calling it South Owasso or Upper Downtown!" It just wouldn't work.

It happens all the time. Didn't they do that with the Rose District in Broken Arrow? NoMa (North of Massachusetts Avenue) in DC was invented out of whole cloth a few years ago and now everyone uses it. Sometimes it's realtors, sometimes it's business improvement districts, sometimes it's the internet. But it happens and sometimes they stick.

Those examples you listed are giving new names to unnamed places. If anything, parts of south Tulsa should do that if they have enough of a uniqueness to warrant it, not reuse labels from existing areas in town.

I tell people that I live in Lower Midtown,  51st and Yale is the closest major intersection. They all just laugh. 

I said that in reference to an area the size of south Tulsa from I44 to creek turnpike which makes up a huge portion of Tulsa. There is not enough solidarity in that large of an area to do something like that. That's why I used north Tulsa as an example: People won't suddenly start calling it Upper Downtown or Upper Midtown just because a few people would prefer that.

Plus I said "you can't just change an unofficial name that was given by the citizens and has been there for decades". Those examples you listed are giving new names to unnamed places. If anything, parts of south Tulsa should do that if they have enough of a uniqueness to warrant it, not reuse labels from existing areas in town.

Stop trying to make Fetch happen.  It's not going to happen!

On that same note, "South Midtown" could be referred to as "the 9th", or Nines, Niner, D9, the Dry Ninth ward...

http://maps.cityoftulsa.org/citycouncil/ (http://maps.cityoftulsa.org/citycouncil/)

(I suppose this is a bit like being a trans person who's trapped in the wrong body....)

White City??!!

That’s just racist!

Conan?

Uptown is the area between SoBo (18th & Boston) and the IDL.

Back when I was a "real" midtown person, the only reason I traveled this far south was to visit my folks and to eat at India Palace, which is so good I overlook the fact that you need a visa and passport to go there.

Which doesn't make sense.  Why would uptown be between downtown and midtown?  That neighborhood is Riverview with just the part along Boston considered by some as Sobo/South Boston.

I'm not advocating changing south Tulsa's name just stating what would make the most sense if applying NYC logic to downtown-midtown-uptown naming conventions.  OKC has fairly recently renamed the area directly north of its downtown to midtown roughly around 13th St (which is a much smaller area than midtown in Tulsa) and then the commercial corridor along 23rd is uptown.  That make sense if not slightly contrived.  But uptown in Riverview is dumb.