The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Probably the most dramatic development growth in Tulsa appears to be happening on 11st Street between Peoria and Harvard Avenues.
Between Peoria and Utica nearly every available building is either occupied or is in the process of being rehab for occupancy. There is a pet groomer, a studio, retail shops etc.
East of Lewis there is the Campbell, coffee shops, lofts.

If you haven't taken route 66 in a while, drive by and take a gander.

Especially nice to see the stretch between Utica and Peoria getting a facelift.

Quote from: carltonplace on February 16, 2016, 09:32:37 AM
Probably the most dramatic development growth in Tulsa appears to be happening on 11st Street between Peoria and Harvard Avenues.
Between Peoria and Utica nearly every available building is either occupied or is in the process of being rehab for occupancy. There is a pet groomer, a studio, retail shops etc.
East of Lewis there is the Campbell, coffee shops, lofts.

If you haven't taken route 66 in a while, drive by and take a gander.

It really is nice to see the development along 11th. The Renaissance Neighborhood Association played a big part and was instrumental in saving the Campbell Hotel and renovating it. 918 Coffee and Capps are excellent additions (918 is an awesome place. I wasn't a big fan of their coffee at first, but has been good recently). Capps makes some tasty fall-off-the-bone ribs and great spicy sauce. Renaissance Brewery is under construction at 13th and Lewis. A lot is going on along Lewis, west of TU.

It will take time but this area is up and coming. If it becomes more uniformly nice, it will bridge the gap from downtown to TU and help Cherry St expand north and Pearl District go East. I am hoping the Rapit Transit helps make 11th more desirable also.

I drive by almost every day, especially now with the BA under construction.  It'll be a pretty dramatic change when the current projects are complete.

Agreed. And TYPros is hoping to bring some more attention to the progress with this year's StreetCred program being based at 11th and Lewis. For those who have not checked out the area recently, come join the fun on April 30.

Details from FB:

STREET CReD: 66
April 30 | 11am-4pm
Along Route 66(11th Street) between Delaware and Lewis

Presented by Fowler Toyota of Tulsa, Street CReD: 66 is under way. In its sixth iteration, TYPros takes on yet another audacious approach to community redevelopment. This year's event pays homage to its Urbanists roots, reimagining an iconic corridor of our city.

Tulsa's Young Professionals announced plans for Street Cred: 66, the latest installment of the organization's annual community redevelopment initiative. Building on successful past events, including efforts in the Pearl District and Tulsa's urban core, TYPros will take on its most geographically ambitious Street Cred this spring, scheduled for Saturday, April 30.

New to this year's event, TYPros will work with the City of Tulsa to close the two outermost lanes of 11th Street between Delaware and Peoria for the week leading up to Street Cred in order to demonstrate a number of multimodal transit options. These temporary simulations of existing transportation plans awaiting implementation include the east-­‐west Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) line and bike lanes called for by the GO Plan.

"The iconic backdrop of Route 66 gives this year's Street Cred an opportunity to connect our city's past with its future potential," said Daniel Regan, 2016 chair of TYPros. "Our members passionately care about increasing the number of transit options in Tulsa. It's essential for Tulsa to develop in a more mutlimodal, pedestrian-­‐ friendly way. Street Cred affords our organization the chance to make that case very practically along a key thoroughfare running through the heart of the city."

In addition to transportation programming, Street Cred: 66 will incorporate a number of other Mother Road motifs, including a car show and Route 66 museum.

"There's an organic revitalization underway along 11th Street," said Regan. "Our hope is that Street Cred: 66 calls attention to these existing efforts, demonstrating the continued potential along Tulsa's stretch of America's Main Street."

https://www.facebook.com/events/1536701603296346/

TyPros will then claim responsibility for it all.

Quote from: davideinstein on April 21, 2016, 05:16:07 PM
TyPros will then claim responsibility for it all.

Well if you are referring to the Street CreD event, it is their deal. So yeah, they can lay claim to that.

Quote from: Conan71 on April 21, 2016, 05:19:31 PM
Well if you are referring to the Street CreD event, it is their deal. So yeah, they can lay claim to that.

I'm being snide about there already being development on 11th happening.

In case you didn't get to the end of the blockquote, here is what TYPros Chair Daniel Regan is saying:

"There's an organic revitalization underway along 11th Street," said Regan. "Our hope is that Street Cred: 66 calls attention to these existing efforts, demonstrating the continued potential along Tulsa's stretch of America's Main Street."

One of the activities planned is a scavenger hunt to encourage attendees to visit many of the currently existing (and often new) locales on the strip.

http://typros.org/streetcred66

Quote from: davideinstein on April 21, 2016, 05:26:22 PM
I'm being snide about there already being development on 11th happening.

I will agree with the general distain for TYPro's, but I will say StreetCred is one of the few things they do right. They really were a key player in bringing attention to 6th Street as The Phoenix was about to open. They also helped put a spotlight on the TowneWest area that helped lead to some renovations to properties out there. I will be very interested to see how they set up to "showcase" the BRT line.

11th Street is just begging for a road diet. I wish they would do a campaign with StreetCred to raise funds to repaint this street and add on street parking and bring it down to 2 traffic lanes until the BRT line starts. Adding on street parking would do wonders to making this section feel more welcoming and help accessibility to a lot of these new businesses opening up.

TYPros will be narrowing it to 2 lanes for a week leading up to the event next Saturday as a demonstration of what alternatives exist.

"In 2016, Street Cred: 66 is all about multimodal transportation. New to this year's event, TYPros will work with the City of Tulsa to close the two outermost lanes of 11th Street between Delaware and Peoria for the week leading up to the annual Saturday event in order to demonstrate a number of multimodal transit options. These temporary simulations of existing transportation plans awaiting implementation include the east-west Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) line and bike lanes called for by the GO Plan."

http://typros.org/streetcred66

Quote from: LandArchPoke on April 23, 2016, 10:29:22 AM
I will agree with the general distain for TYPro's, but I will say StreetCred is one of the few things they do right. They really were a key player in bringing attention to 6th Street as The Phoenix was about to open. They also helped put a spotlight on the TowneWest area that helped lead to some renovations to properties out there. I will be very interested to see how they set up to "showcase" the BRT line.

11th Street is just begging for a road diet. I wish they would do a campaign with StreetCred to raise funds to repaint this street and add on street parking and bring it down to 2 traffic lanes until the BRT line starts. Adding on street parking would do wonders to making this section feel more welcoming and help accessibility to a lot of these new businesses opening up.

It's perfect for two traffic lanes and bike lanes on each side as well.

Cherry Street needs to have its lanes reduced, sidewalks widened, trees planted, and bike lanes installed.  When the rest of the roads are functioning properly, Cherry Street can handle less traffic volume.

Quote from: Dspike on April 22, 2016, 09:20:53 AM
In case you didn't get to the end of the blockquote, here is what TYPros Chair Daniel Regan is saying:

"There's an organic revitalization underway along 11th Street," said Regan. "Our hope is that Street Cred: 66 calls attention to these existing efforts, demonstrating the continued potential along Tulsa's stretch of America's Main Street."

One of the activities planned is a scavenger hunt to encourage attendees to visit many of the currently existing (and often new) locales on the strip.

http://typros.org/streetcred66

I have really like the StreetCred events! The south downtown one had info about several neat things going on (bicycle rental kiosks - which is now happening) and a design contest for parking lots (for which the Boston Mixed-Use sports complex was designed - they have TCC approval and are pursuing funding). I think it has the potential help get things going a bit by bringing people with a passion for urban revitalization together. If nothing else, it is a neat fun event where you can learn what's going on.

Quote from: DowntownDan on April 24, 2016, 04:51:49 PM
Cherry Street needs to have its lanes reduced, sidewalks widened, trees planted, and bike lanes installed.  When the rest of the roads are functioning properly, Cherry Street can handle less traffic volume.

I'm not sure how you could reduce the lanes much further.  As it is now, you have angled parking on the north side and parallel on the south and two lanes for passage.  Unless you are talking about removing street-side parking, there's no way you could insert bike lanes.  The on-street parking is pretty much needed.  With a 25 MPH speed limit, I don't really get the point of bike lanes on the Utica to Peoria stretch anyhow.  Just pedal along in the car lane and annoy the people behind you.

Here's something I do not understand why Tulsa does not do a better job of enforcing, especially in pedestrian corridors like Cherry Street:  utilizing crosswalk yield signs "Yield To Pedestrians In Crosswalk State Law".  They use them in Jenks and I'm thinking I've seen them in downtown BA.  Most drivers just whiz through the clearly-marked Cherry St. crosswalks when people are trying to cross.

Quote from: Conan71 on April 25, 2016, 09:13:49 AM
I'm not sure how you could reduce the lanes much further.  As it is now, you have angled parking on the north side and parallel on the south and two lanes for passage.  Unless you are talking about removing street-side parking, there's no way you could insert bike lanes.  The on-street parking is pretty much needed.  With a 25 MPH speed limit, I don't really get the point of bike lanes on the Utica to Peoria stretch anyhow.  Just pedal along in the car lane and annoy the people behind you.

Here's something I do not understand why Tulsa does not do a better job of enforcing, especially in pedestrian corridors like Cherry Street:  utilizing crosswalk yield signs "Yield To Pedestrians In Crosswalk State Law".  They use them in Jenks and I'm thinking I've seen them in downtown BA.  Most drivers just whiz through the clearly-marked Cherry St. crosswalks when people are trying to cross.

I get the drivers behind me really mad because I stop for every pedestrian or person trying to open a car door.

Tulsa World covered the lane closures for the TYPros Street Cred today:

"Work will start Monday to close the outer lanes of 11th Street between Peoria and Delaware avenues for a temporary demonstration of "multi-modal transportation options," including bike lanes and a Bus Rapid Transit line.

Tulsa Young Professionals will work with city officials and Tulsa Transit to show ways that 11th Street could be permanently changed in the future to improve access for bicycles, pedestrians and buses. The lanes will be closed from Tuesday through Saturday, when the TyPro's annual StreetCred festival will include a pop-up Route 66 Museum, a food truck court and bike rentals."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/columnists/michaeloverall/streetcred-to-close-lanes-on-th-street-between-peoria-and/article_b1560327-485f-5981-8df1-7b12392d7fcc.html

Hope y'all can come out and support this effort at envisioning a more urban 11th Street corridor.

Lanes are closed. Looks awkward because you need a turn lane for traffic flow reasons.

I haven't checked it out myself, but I see TYPros had a bike event on the "bike lanes" yesterday before the storms rolled in:

QuoteWith orange cones blocking the outer lanes of East 11th Street this week to create temporary bike lanes, the Tulsa's Young Professionals group hopes to prove that permanent lanes would be a viable option along historic Route 66 and other major thoroughfares across the city.

But the lanes prove nothing by themselves. They need cyclists.

So local elementary schools helpfully provided more than 100 riders Tuesday morning, when bus loads of students rode from Peoria Avenue to the University of Tulsa, about 1.5 miles. The experiment, officials said, not only gave the children a fun way to exercise but demonstrated how the bike lanes could handle a large volume of riders without disrupting motor vehicle traffic.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/education/young-students-help-prove-that-bike-lanes-work-along-tulsa/article_f67a6084-adde-5e51-babf-dc7ca233c6af.html

Bus Rapid Transit is absolute money in Austin. Used it all day today. If we could make 11th Street even a slight bit like South Congress then we are heading in the right direction.

BRT if done right will be huge for both the 11th St and Peoria corridors.  Austin has a good system, Cleveland too as do several other cities.  Protected stops and signs announcing the next arriving buses are a must.  Streetcar would be the best but maybe that is a future phase.

Speaking of 11th st development:

Fuel 66 food truck park planned on Route 66

QuoteHistoric Route 66 will have a new food truck court this fall, thanks to a collaboration between a few Tulsa restaurateurs and organizations.
Fuel 66 food court and beirgarten is expected to open on the northwest corner of 11th Street and Atlanta Avenue, just east of Lewis Avenue.
The announcement of the new food court was made in partnership with the Street Cred: 66 block party event set from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m Saturday,  according to a news release.
Plans for Fuel 66 include food trucks, a pet-friendly space with a full-service bar, patio seating and a large biergarten, which will open to visitors 21 and older after 9 p.m. The food court will feature space for six food trucks, said J.L. Lewis, operating partner of Fuel 66.
"We'll have the ability to pull one or two food trucks up to the covered patios so we can serve food and drinks through winter," said Lewis, adding that the owners plan to keep the park open year round.
"Route 66 is one of Tulsa's greatest assets, and we want to restore the spirit of entrepreneurship that made the Mother Road great to 11th Street. We are excited to partner with experts in the food truck and bar restaurant scene to build a thriving space along Route 66 in Tulsa," said Chris W. Ellison, Fuel 66 partner.
Fuel 66 is a collaboration with Tulsa restaurateurs and Route 66 developers, including J.L. Lewis, former owner of Leon's On The Restless Ribbon; Chad Wilcox and Robert Carnoske, owners of MASA and MASA food truck, and Chris and Elizabeth Ellison, of the Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/food/fuel-food-truck-park-planned-on-route/article_34ee51b4-a18f-53c3-a37a-a0d7231bee73.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/food/fuel-food-truck-park-planned-on-route/article_34ee51b4-a18f-53c3-a37a-a0d7231bee73.html)

This place was opened for a couple TU football games last year. It was nice and I hope it stays up and going. Although it does have nearby competition with the Park in the Pearl. Hopefully this helps both places become more popular lunch and dinner hubs.

Oh yeah, I can see how this is going to be a big hit with 11th Street motorists - all of them taxpayers and willing to vent to their city counselors about the use of their tax dollars. Remember, motorists vote too. Traffic west of Bama Pie was backed up for at least half a mile as someone tried in vain to make a left turn. That half mile was not an exaggeration.

This is a half-asked solution to a non-existent problem. I've been along 11th both yesterday and today without seeing one bicyclist. Not. One. Bicyclist.



(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SyOgVsSE_WquhNohzM_QeAhotIgyCqo9I_PdcFLnoNJuR8Lh-s6Cysb-UJa9ocEccNW1ZKeGEL9_pTtt-uSYzAwg29EUlNZaJDZahh3xIBMdRdiAYP0TrANh2j62Hve9rn2TNorUihzW8cyOe9Pkx111Ipp-rIWsJmBDrxstk1p9Nph9D0up32YLqxA8GquLwLJq00cLxsxsySfBkBroTuaxme04jLPTqbQEsg1cg6GNgJiymppxd-O8UyWpw91x9S_ZHFmrE_QnBDOzKHb_khIlxrXD66hCQrjMwYVEbCfPa26_20DFIohK7mTbRQw9V5vFaD0z4DBOdtRwQs30nP70XTLmMnp_Xd8HieANpEfQd5bP6brYomo06j6V5qhPjh1lJI3RMiSB08aInulnlz2fI2c01KPcddOXueEX3u7VsOsRqG4MqkjGOO35AxJAIm6et30oZ8g0v3dJd9lvw0RNbN46HbJbgo2MM7UVTK0UFk0zfaNAiVFZF8xm4lovDlUT1CRXNsURsOj5du0FqAC_hY5BdlKE67PFzM2AkE2PS0j9Z32uCVWLeuMO_jBTwbnilw=w664-h499-no)

Quote from: Ed W on April 29, 2016, 03:00:30 PM
This is a half-asked solution to a non-existent problem. I've been along 11th both yesterday and today without seeing one bicyclist. Not. One. Bicyclist.

This is supposed to be a "solution" to any problem. It is trying something different to see how it goes.

And what time were you down 11th? If it was during business hours, I would suspect you wouldnt find many cyclists. Also - other than us "urbanists," who really knows that there is a bike lane open there? I don't think I've seen mention of it on any of the cycling forums or facebook groups. It takes a while for people to realize there are amenities to be utilized. Even if they are perfect for them. The existing bike route from Delaware to downtown goes down 3rd.

I rode 36th from Yale to Riverside yesterday, down the riverside trail and back again. I bet I passed (or they passed me...) at least 2 dozen cyclists on 36th. Considering I was on 36th for a total of 30 minutes and that half again that number were likely traveling along with me (and hence we didn't pass), that's a decent number of people.  Cyclists are tax payers who vote too. Actually, marketing research indicates the average cyclists is more educated, wealthier, and more likely to vote than the average citizen.  And, shockingly, cyclists in Tulsa are also almost all motorists who pay taxes and vote.

I plan on riding this stretch of 11th tomorrow, mostly to say I did. But the picture you posted surely isn't inviting to me as a cycling. It looks like I will have to watch for random cones placed oddly, guard myself against right turners at every intersection (instead of just going through on green), and it looks like up ahead there are sections that just aren't protected at all. I'm all for trying new things. I'm glad they did it, even if all it teaches us is that it doesn't work.

But on that, I reserve my opinion.

Quote from: cannon_fodder on April 29, 2016, 03:14:25 PM
This is supposed to be a "solution" to any problem. It is trying something different to see how it goes.

And what time were you down 11th? If it was during business hours, I would suspect you wouldnt find many cyclists. Also - other than us "urbanists," who really knows that there is a bike lane open there? I don't think I've seen mention of it on any of the cycling forums or facebook groups. It takes a while for people to realize there are amenities to be utilized. Even if they are perfect for them. The existing bike route from Delaware to downtown goes down 3rd.

I rode 36th from Yale to Riverside yesterday, down the riverside trail and back again. I bet I passed (or they passed me...) at least 2 dozen cyclists on 36th. Considering I was on 36th for a total of 30 minutes and that half again that number were likely traveling along with me (and hence we didn't pass), that's a decent number of people.  Cyclists are tax payers who vote too. Actually, marketing research indicates the average cyclists is more educated, wealthier, and more likely to vote than the average citizen.  And, shockingly, cyclists in Tulsa are also almost all motorists who pay taxes and vote.

I plan on riding this stretch of 11th tomorrow, mostly to say I did. But the picture you posted surely isn't inviting to me as a cycling. It looks like I will have to watch for random cones placed oddly, guard myself against right turners at every intersection (instead of just going through on green), and it looks like up ahead there are sections that just aren't protected at all. I'm all for trying new things. I'm glad they did it, even if all it teaches us is that it doesn't work.

But on that, I reserve my opinion.

Yeah, well, you should have to buy a tag for your bike and insurance too!

Quote from: Ed W on April 29, 2016, 03:00:30 PM
Oh yeah, I can see how this is going to be a big hit with 11th Street motorists - all of them taxpayers and willing to vent to their city counselors about the use of their tax dollars. Remember, motorists vote too. Traffic west of Bama Pie was backed up for at least half a mile as someone tried in vain to make a left turn. That half mile was not an exaggeration.

This is a half-asked solution to a non-existent problem. I've been along 11th both yesterday and today without seeing one bicyclist. Not. One. Bicyclist.



(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SyOgVsSE_WquhNohzM_QeAhotIgyCqo9I_PdcFLnoNJuR8Lh-s6Cysb-UJa9ocEccNW1ZKeGEL9_pTtt-uSYzAwg29EUlNZaJDZahh3xIBMdRdiAYP0TrANh2j62Hve9rn2TNorUihzW8cyOe9Pkx111Ipp-rIWsJmBDrxstk1p9Nph9D0up32YLqxA8GquLwLJq00cLxsxsySfBkBroTuaxme04jLPTqbQEsg1cg6GNgJiymppxd-O8UyWpw91x9S_ZHFmrE_QnBDOzKHb_khIlxrXD66hCQrjMwYVEbCfPa26_20DFIohK7mTbRQw9V5vFaD0z4DBOdtRwQs30nP70XTLmMnp_Xd8HieANpEfQd5bP6brYomo06j6V5qhPjh1lJI3RMiSB08aInulnlz2fI2c01KPcddOXueEX3u7VsOsRqG4MqkjGOO35AxJAIm6et30oZ8g0v3dJd9lvw0RNbN46HbJbgo2MM7UVTK0UFk0zfaNAiVFZF8xm4lovDlUT1CRXNsURsOj5du0FqAC_hY5BdlKE67PFzM2AkE2PS0j9Z32uCVWLeuMO_jBTwbnilw=w664-h499-no)

Because the set up isn't safe. If they had protected bike lanes with a turning lane built in then it would be used and ridership would grow annually. Proven fact this would happen.

Does 11th really need bike lanes?  Honest question.  I would rather see dedicated lanes for BRT and then have protected east-west bike lanes on 13th (figuring out how to bridge the gap at Lewis) and especially 6th.  Enhance the existing bike route on 3rd.  Connect them all north-south at Utica, Delaware and Pittsburg.

Quote from: SXSW on April 29, 2016, 08:20:40 PM
Does 11th really need bike lanes?  Honest question.  I would rather see dedicated lanes for BRT and then have protected east-west bike lanes on 13th (figuring out how to bridge the gap at Lewis) and especially 6th.  Enhance the existing bike route on 3rd.  Connect them all north-south at Utica, Delaware and Pittsburg.

Yes.

We would do bike delivery at our 11th Street location if there were bike lanes and I would use it often on the weekends. 3rd/4th needs to expand from Yale to Downtown too.

Tulsa seems bent on adopting the same plans as many other American cities, plans that are often poorly implemented leading to facilities that are rarely maintained. So be it. I once read a complaint from a well-channeled bicycle rider who bemoaned not being able to get from A to B because there were no bike lanes connecting the two. These facilities foster dependency both for the facilities themselves and the entities that advocate them.

But the is another way, a "radical" way that was briefly promoted here in Tulsa, then quickly discarded for more conventional thinking. You can read about it.

http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/ (http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/)

http://cyclingsavvy.org (http://cyclingsavvy.org)

Quote from: Ed W on April 30, 2016, 02:08:56 PM
Tulsa seems bent on adopting the same plans as many other American cities, plans that are often poorly implemented leading to facilities that are rarely maintained. So be it. I once read a complaint from a well-channeled bicycle rider who bemoaned not being able to get from A to B because there were no bike lanes connecting the two. These facilities foster dependency both for the facilities themselves and the entities that advocate them.

But the is another way, a "radical" way that was briefly promoted here in Tulsa, then quickly discarded for more conventional thinking. You can read about it.

http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/ (http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/)

http://cyclingsavvy.org (http://cyclingsavvy.org)

Doesn't fit with the militant cyclist theme, "We must have protected lanes, and traffic laws don't apply to us"

Quote from: SXSW on April 29, 2016, 08:20:40 PM
Does 11th really need bike lanes?  Honest question.  I would rather see dedicated lanes for BRT and then have protected east-west bike lanes on 13th (figuring out how to bridge the gap at Lewis) and especially 6th.  Enhance the existing bike route on 3rd.  Connect them all north-south at Utica, Delaware and Pittsburg.

We rode this west-bound on our trip to the Cherry St. farmer's market this morning.  In addition to the cones, they did put out signage in an attempt to make motorists more cyclist aware like yielding their right turn to cyclists in the cycling lane.

All-in-all, I applaud what TyPros have done with this and they had a really good presence on the NW corner of 11th & Lewis.

I'm not a huge fan of "protected" bike lanes as I think they give less experienced cyclists a false sense of security, especially when you have cross streets every 1/10 of a mile. 

I didn't see any dumbass moves while we were on 11th, but did have a couple of drivers decide it was perfectly legal to pull left of us at stop signs today, instead of waiting their turn behind and another dickweed who saw fit to pass all four of us in the blind S curve off the NE corner of the old Eisenhower school.

There is a general disregard for traffic laws by motorists AND cyclists which keep protected bike lanes from being the "safe" zone they are purported to be.

As far as dedicated lanes on 13th, 6th, & 3rd/4th- entirely unnecessary, those are really wide roads with limited traffic.

I'm not sure there is Right of Way for both BRT and bike lanes on 11th. Unless they plan to run busses mixed with traffic? Which kind of isn't BRT... I kind of thought that was the point of the 11th Street route was for it to have its own lanes? Maybe I am wrong in that assumption.

A lot of the traffic issues this weekend really were just because there weren't left turn lanes at some of the lights. A road diet on 11th would work just fine and not have a huge traffic impact as long as a few left turn lanes were added in certain spots. Frankly, like I had said before, I wish we could extended this pilot project for a few months with some paint. Turn the right lanes into street parking and add bike lanes. This entire corridor would feel dramatically different. Same way the Cherry Street did when the parking was changed.

Quote from: LandArchPoke on April 30, 2016, 08:27:58 PM
I'm not sure there is Right of Way for both BRT and bike lanes on 11th. Unless they plan to run busses mixed with traffic? Which kind of isn't BRT... I kind of thought that was the point of the 11th Street route was for it to have its own lanes? Maybe I am wrong in that assumption.

A lot of the traffic issues this weekend really were just because there weren't left turn lanes at some of the lights. A road diet on 11th would work just fine and not have a huge traffic impact as long as a few left turn lanes were added in certain spots. Frankly, like I had said before, I wish we could extended this pilot project for a few months with some paint. Turn the right lanes into street parking and add bike lanes. This entire corridor would feel dramatically different. Same way the Cherry Street did when the parking was changed.

It's not true BRT without dedicated traffic lanes.  Is that really what it is or watered-down "BRT" which is really just "enhanced bus". 

11th should have true BRT.  Peoria could get away with just enhanced bus IMO though BRT on both would be awesome.

Well, we voted to fund full blown BRT so that better happen.

I know Peoria is going to be modified BRT due to right of way issues. There's no way to accommodate both Bike Lanes and lane dedicated BRT along 11th, so it's kind of one or the other. I want to see lane dedicated BRT on 11th, and not modified BRT. If it is, then there better be road diets done with on street parking and bike lanes up and down 11th.

This was a neat event! Quite a few groups and lot of people worked hard on this. It was neat to see some of the existing, in-process and upcoming developments:

* Fuel 66 Food Truck Park (Had plans on display - Park will utilize existing structure to create bar with enclosable covered patio and 6 spots for food trucks). Plan is to be open year-round.

* Renaissance Brewery (Will be ~7,000 ft2 including a couple apartments, taproom with food service and events center)

* Kathy Taylor's foundation set-up a pop-up Route-66 museum at 11th & Lewis promoting the permanent museum to be built on Riverside

* Kathy Taylor's foundation purchased the lots across the street (including the former Tulsa Gamma Ray) and have demolished them with plans to build some sort of more urban development.

* A lot of buildings are being redone from Peoria to Rockford. That stretch up to St Louis is starting to look pretty sharp. Could this potentially become sort of a 2nd Cherry St?

* Kitchen 66 has some tasty food startups and will soon have a walk-up market downtown.

* 11th st felt very lively with bicyclers, trolleys, city buses and a steady amount of visitors going from one stop to another. It was a sneak peak of what 11th might be like if it were more urban with a better concentration of places.

Perhaps they could match what they've done on Cherry St (Diagonal parking/2-lane) on 11th from Peoria to St Louis. That strip has real potential to be a neat little urban area. The other/main part of the Pearl District is 2-lane with street parking. It at least should traffic down enough to notice the more pedestrian-friendly places and could make bicycling there feel better.

Although, bicycling down Cherry St is kind of nerve wracking as cars try to pass you and cars pulling out can't see you.

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on April 29, 2016, 01:17:10 PM
Speaking of 11th st development:

Fuel 66 food truck park planned on Route 66http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/food/fuel-food-truck-park-planned-on-route/article_34ee51b4-a18f-53c3-a37a-a0d7231bee73.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/food/fuel-food-truck-park-planned-on-route/article_34ee51b4-a18f-53c3-a37a-a0d7231bee73.html)

This place was opened for a couple TU football games last year. It was nice and I hope it stays up and going. Although it does have nearby competition with the Park in the Pearl. Hopefully this helps both places become more popular lunch and dinner hubs.

I hope the Park in the Pearl makes it too.  Fuel 66 is going to get all the media attention. I feel like they will have different clientele though.

Quote from: CharlieSheen on May 02, 2016, 01:46:28 PM
I hope the Park in the Pearl makes it too.  Fuel 66 is going to get all the media attention.

I hope so too! Seems to have great crowds some days and then empty on others. The view of downtown from there is really nice.

Someone asked them about the Park in the Pearl. The odd/inconsistent hours, no permanent bathrooms and seasonal operation (it STILL isn't open), makes the Fuel 66 concept doable even though they're only a couple miles away.

Has anyone been to the Truck Yard in Dallas? They only have 3 food trucks there yet they are consistently busy and packed on weekends. What sets them apart? The atmosphere which feels very authentic like an Americana movie set from some 80's movie about a kids hideout tree-house in a junk yard. It is a classic patio with a distinguished comfortable atmosphere. It has an indoor bar with good local/craft brews, big garage doors so it's like being outside and a massive patio around it (Dogs were allowed). They also have a built-in food place with excellent philly steaks. Perhaps you need a permanent bar/restaurant pressense to go along with the  food trucks which aren't quite as reliable.

It seems like it is less about having tons of food trucks and more about making a neat atmosphere and having a few really good food options. Ultimately people want to hang out outside and have a beer and food without the formality of going to a restaurant.

7 million people vs 1 million people sets them apart a lot.

One possible issue with narrowing use of 11th is there is a major hospital in that corridor, there would have to be reliable re-routing for ambulances to get to the ER at Hillcrest if they are coming east or west on 11th with a critical patient

Quote from: CharlieSheen on May 02, 2016, 02:21:51 PM
7 million people vs 1 million people sets them apart a lot.

With 7 million people comes tremendous amount of competition and very high real estate. There are tons of cool looking places with extravagant patios in Dallas which are empty most of the time (even several highly rated places nearby always had a tiny fraction of the crowd). The Truck Yard is nicely placed in one of the more urban districts (similar to Cherry St). It is a completely unique place and would be a big draw in any city in the region.

Speaking of food trucks, I'd love to see the event in K-W Square at 1st & Lewis more than once a year.  The public parking lot is perfect for it.  I'd be grateful for even once a month.

QuoteLobeck Taylor Family Foundation announces plans for $5.5 million Mother Road Market

Start with a sliver of historic Route 66, add dashes of homegrown edibles and entrepreneurship, and one has the ingredients for the Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation's newest venture.

Celebrating its 20th anniversary as a nonprofit, LTFF announced plans Wednesday to develop the $5.5 million Mother Road Market at its headquarters at 1124 S. Lewis Ave. Billed as a vibrant community space, it will feature 26,000 square feet and 17 curated shops designed to bridge the next step for graduates of Kitchen 66, a food incubator founded by LTFF.

Local pizzeria Andolini's will be anchor tenant of the Market, which will be a renovation of the 1939 Scrivner-Stevens Grocery building.

"These food hall and public markets are popping up all over the United States," LTFF CEO Elizabeth Ellison said in an interview earlier this week.

"We are really unique because we are a nonprofit that is operating it. It gives us the added ability to infuse community programming and business assistance into the market.

"I love the idea of educating the community about our food system — not just how food is grown but why it matters that restaurant A uses farm B to supply their food, and here's why it's better for our entire community if we try to do that. And by the way, let's talk about why it's important to eat fruits and vegetables and how to prepare them a way that's cost-effective and healthier for you and your family."

Officials made the announcement at a news conference Wednesday at Fuel 66, a nearby food truck court on 11th Street.

Sixteen rentable shops at Mother Road Market will be 320 square feet each, with another space about 640 square feet. Also, Kitchen 66 will carve out 3,440 square feet in the new facility for its commercial kitchen, as well as for a general store and demonstration kitchen.

"To me, the Market is just the logical next step for supporting those food entrepreneurs and really showcasing what they have to offer," Ellison said. "Oklahoma is known as an agricultural state ... but we also have this value add of bringing these amazing food businesses who are using these local ingredients and getting to know our farmers and then making this incredible food. Everybody wins.

"We're just trying to minimize the risk of starting a brick-and-mortar business. In our view, the Kitchen 66 graduates would take the shorter-term leases in the shops and then either move to a permanent location or decide that they are going to open a food truck or open a bigger, brick-and-mortar business."

Other amenities of the Market will include a bar, a 640-square-foot space to house restaurant pop-ups, an indoor-outdoor seating area and children's activities.

Selser Schaefer Architects is designing Mother Road Market, and Fox + Allen Realty will handle the leasing. The project is expected to be completed by late spring 2018.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/smallbusiness/lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-announces-plans-for-million-mother-road/article_4e06e93e-06dd-5707-b6de-29425616e4b7.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/smallbusiness/lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-announces-plans-for-million-mother-road/article_4e06e93e-06dd-5707-b6de-29425616e4b7.html)

this sounds great, but is it meant to be more a farmer's market kind of space or touristy/restaurant space?

Quote from: swake on July 26, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
this sounds great, but is it meant to be more a farmer's market kind of space or touristy/restaurant space?

There's a place that sounds like this in Little Rock by the Clinton Library.  I like the idea, but I'm wondering if this is putting the cart before horse?  There's really no destination nearby to attract people; but I sure hope this would serve as destination to spur other development.

A year round permanent farmers market will succeed. Vendors and customers will appreciate the regularity of open every day with the feel of all local and fresh.

Quote from: Markk on July 26, 2017, 07:22:35 PM
There's a place that sounds like this in Little Rock by the Clinton Library.  I like the idea, but I'm wondering if this is putting the cart before horse?  There's really no destination nearby to attract people; but I sure hope this would serve as destination to spur other development.

Between this and Renaissance Brewery, it will be a pretty nice jump-start for the area.

Quote from: Conan71 on July 26, 2017, 11:14:11 PM
Between this and Renaissance Brewery, it will be a pretty nice jump-start for the area.

There's also Fuel 66 which has really grown to be a destination place with big crowds pretty often along with 918 Coffee which is a nice coffee place and then Starship. There's quite a lot of traffic and business going on along 11th street around there. That particular building hasn't had lots of traffic simply because it has been headquarters for the Loebuck Taylor Foundation which is funding this.

Quote from: Markk on July 26, 2017, 07:22:35 PM
There's a place that sounds like this in Little Rock by the Clinton Library.  I like the idea, but I'm wondering if this is putting the cart before horse?  There's really no destination nearby to attract people; but I sure hope this would serve as destination to spur other development.

This area isn't that remote. It is 3-4 blocks from Reasors at 15th and a block from Perry's Deli & Meats (and a bunch of stuff down that direction like the booming Whittier District) and close to Marshall Brewery and another brewery or two going in. It is also in the highest populated zip code in Oklahoma (74104). Renaissance neighborhood is full of the kinds of people who like and support these kinds of developments. The neighborhood association was founded to purchase Campbell Hotel to save it and they have helped to spurn lots of growth along 11th street. There's also the welding school which brings in constant traffic and the Hookah lounge which helps with late night food crowd.

The LTFF is also planning a mixed-use urban development right across the street all the way from the brewery to Advance Auto. They razed the buildings last year but still haven't started construction. I hope that is still in the cards and that this farmers market is in addition to those plans.

If that gets built along with the farmers market "mall", it will completely change that street and help build more of a bridge between Cherry St and TU.

LA has a "Grand Central Market" with lots of small kiosks of different vendors which is really neat that was put in a seedy area of downtown and has seemingly thrived. I think this could do very well with the support of LTFF and some time to pick up.

This area could become a real lunchtime destination: Mother Road Market, Fuel 66, Route 66 BBQ, Dena's Lebanese, La Flama, Hong Kong Chinese, Rosay's Wings. That is a nice varied assortment including several highly-rated places.

The concept is almost identical to the Dallas Farmer's market, specifically, the part called "The Market", which is exactly like this, small kiosks for local restaurants/food service.  It is next door to "The Shed" which is their permanent open air farmer's market.  The shed has been around for decades but The Market is new and part of the larger rebranding of the farmer's market area.  I didn't see a true farmer's market component to this plan, but maybe it will include some kiosks that are for purchasing produce.  I love this idea and would love to see that intersection come together, including better use of the creepy maniquin building.

And while it is a few years off, these developments will be right on the 11th Street Bus Rapid Transit line. So TU to Mother Road Market to Soul City to downtown will be even more connected. If it is all successful, you could see a growth in the Cherry Street style replace-one-dilapidated-home-with-4-townhomes near 11th street.

Quote from: DowntownDan on July 27, 2017, 11:59:30 AM
The concept is almost identical to the Dallas Farmer's market, specifically, the part called "The Market", which is exactly like this, small kiosks for local restaurants/food service.  It is next door to "The Shed" which is their permanent open air farmer's market.  The shed has been around for decades but The Market is new and part of the larger rebranding of the farmer's market area.  I didn't see a true farmer's market component to this plan, but maybe it will include some kiosks that are for purchasing produce.  I love this idea and would love to see that intersection come together, including better use of the creepy maniquin building.

OKC has a farmers market which also has an antique mall and a lot of potential to be a really neat place:
https://www.facebook.com/OKCFarmersPublicMarket/ (https://www.facebook.com/OKCFarmersPublicMarket/)
http://okcfarmersmarket.com/the-antique-mall/ (http://okcfarmersmarket.com/the-antique-mall/)

The renderings make it look like it will have some grocery kiosks.

Leave the mannequin building alone! That place is just part of the fabric of Tulsa and somehow just keeps on existing.

Quote from: Dspike on July 27, 2017, 12:38:51 PM
And while it is a few years off, these developments will be right on the 11th Street Bus Rapid Transit line. So TU to Mother Road Market to Soul City to downtown will be even more connected. If it is all successful, you could see a growth in the Cherry Street style replace-one-dilapidated-home-with-4-townhomes near 11th street.

Have you been to the neighborhood SE of 11th and Lewis, lately? That is the Renaissance Neighborhood. In the past it was a mixed bag, with the east side much nicer (East of Delaware) while the west side was pretty shabby. Over the last 10 years, the section west of Delaware has really come on line. There are very few "dilapidated" homes in Renaissance any more. The worst of them are the duplexes that fill a couple streets near the new brewery, but those just need updated, not demolished. The potential profits from  updating a house around there makes renting a tougher choice.

There are very few homes I would want to be demolished around there as so many have great bones in the 1920's English Cottage Revival style along with bungalows. The 1940's-50's homes along Delaware Place across from the school could use demolish/replacement or big updates, but as a whole the neighborhood is pretty awesome now with homes commonly going for $200k-$300k or more. That's a price point that just doesn't exist in the neighborhoods north or west of there (or NW in Whittier).

Unless you're talking about demolishing the ransacked houses north of 11th which is already being done by TU, Capital Homes, GKFF and others as they have a big neighborhood plan for that area with several huge developments planned and in process.

QuoteEleventh Street flexing its development muscle

More than 28 properties along 11th Street have been redeveloped in the past decade.

Based in Dallas with stores in Big D and Kansas City, Missouri, Josey Records was seeking a new location to hawk its nostalgia.

Eleventh Street in Tulsa fit the profile.

"This little strip right here opened up and they jumped on it," Josey Records manager Josh Norrid said of company founders Luke Sardello and Waric Cameron. "They thought it was a perfect spot because it is close enough to downtown where the folks there can shop here."

In March, Josey Records opened a 2,500-square-foot store at 1020 S. Rockford Ave.

"People are getting used to us being here and as people are moving to the area, we're seeing more people who are walking through the area, walking their dogs or popping in with their kids," Norrid said. "People seem to be digging it. I think we're going to be here for a long time. As long as this area keeps growing, our business is going to be good."

And growing, the corridor is.

"I do think that you're going to see good infill in that area from say Peoria (Avenue) to Yale (Avenue)," said Jim Stephens, managing broker of JPS Commercial Real Estate.

From Harvard Avenue to the Inner Dispersal Loop, 28 properties along 11th Street (also known as Route 66) have been redeveloped in the past decade, with about half of those being transformed in the past five years, said Bob Pielsticker, first vice president of CBRE, a worldwide commercial real estate company with an office in Tulsa.

The uptick is due in part to rates in the city's core. Pielsticker noted Tulsa Regional Chamber CEO Mike Neal's mentioning that $1.5 billion worth of redevelopment has gone into the Brady District.

"Those values have really increased downtown," Pielsticker said. "That pushes tenants to the east, where it's cheaper to rent space or buy a building."

That trickle-down effect radiates from the established Cherry Street district along 15th Street to lesser developed spokes such as 11th, Sixth and Third streets, he said.

"Most of the investment is local," Pielsticker said. "That's what is attractive about the redevelopment. You don't have national chains — close to TU you do with the fast food — but most of the buildings that have been redeveloped are tenants that have taken advantage of the lower-lease threshold on 11th Street versus Cherry Street. So your furniture (stores), your designers have moved off Cherry Street down to 11th Street.

"A lot of the buildings that have been renovated have small boutiques, insurance, dog training ... and then the designers have moved in. Fuel 66 is a neat concept. You are just getting some smaller investment, and it's unique local development."

Last month, the Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation announced plans to develop the $5.5 million, 26,000-square-foot Mother Road Market at 11th Street and Lewis Avenue. More intimate footprints in recent years have involved businesses such as Soul City, 918 Coffee, Lola's Gypsy Caravan and Spirit Ranch Dog Training.

Fuel 66, a food truck court with an indoor bar, opened last fall on 11th Street just east of Lewis Avenue. Robert Carnoske, co-owner of the Masa food truck, is among the collaborators in the Fuel 66 project.

"Shortly after we moved in, they put together that Route 66 Commission," he said. "We knew a lot of that was coming. Being there between TU and downtown, it was kind of a natural spot to be for us.

"Kendall Whittier has been super excited, too. We're technically in the Kendall Whittier neighborhood, just on that north side of 11th Street. Just south of that is the Renaissance neighborhood. You have the new Renaissance Brewery going in and that neighborhood has always been strong. The neighbors walk over all the time. I'd say we have been well-received."

Working on some co-branding opportunities with the University of Tulsa, Fuel 66 added a misting system a few weeks ago and is preparing to work on an enclosure for the patio for winter, Carnoske said.

"You have a lot of transients up and down that street," he said. "But with us being there, it helps alleviate some of that worry just because we're there all the time."

In a talk to the University of Tulsa's Friends of Finance in March, local developer/entrepreneur Elliot Nelson said an area of the city with "untapped potential" is 11th Street between TU and downtown "because there are a lot of storefronts we can create some density there and create a lot of street-front activity that's not possible in other parts of town."

A transportation improvement could hasten that sort of development.

Funded by the Tulsa Vision permanent transit tax that voters approved in April 2016, the Route 66 Bus Rapid Transit Line is being planned as a system that will follow 11th and 21st Streets and go from the Denver Avenue Station at Fourth Street in downtown Tulsa to 145th East Avenue at the Eastgate Metroplex. Its development will piggyback the recently announced Peoria Avenue BRT scheduled to launch in 2019.

Pielsticker envisions sustained success for the 11th Street corridor, given some caveats.

"If we improve the walkability and the bike routes, then you'll see more people out there," he says. "But there's still more work to occur.

"I'm not sure the city can drive a lot of the growth. I think it's going to be internal. I think it's going to be local. The values are going to increase in the area, and as long as it's a secure area to be in at night, you're going to continue to see redevelopment in the area."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/eleventh-street-flexing-its-development-muscle/article_6e04e45b-0b9b-52da-b07c-a5f6778480e9.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/eleventh-street-flexing-its-development-muscle/article_6e04e45b-0b9b-52da-b07c-a5f6778480e9.html)

QuoteMother Road Market announces four new tenants

Businesses are Bakeshop, Big Dipper Creamery, Bodhi's Bowl and The Wurst

Four new tenants for the Mother Road Market have been announced by the Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation.

Tulsa food businesses Bakeshop, Big Dipper Creamery, Bodhi's Bowl and The Wurst — all of which are graduates of the Kitchen 66 Launch Program — have confirmed plans to open 320-square-foot shops in Mother Road Market by late spring.

These newly announced restaurant concepts will join anchor tenant Andolini's, which is developing a new concept for the space while keeping its other Tulsa locations open.

"Mother Road Market is thrilled to roll out this new wave of confirmed tenants for Tulsa's first food hall," said Shanese Slaton, project manager. "These tenants have been selected because of their unique, diverse, delicious concepts — and we can't wait for the community to be able to sample all of these different cuisines under one roof."

Mother Road Market is expected to be completed by late spring in the historic 1939 Scrivner-Stevens Grocery building at 11th Street and Lewis Avenue and will include 17 small shops.

Bakeshop is a small-batch artisan baking company specializing in surprising, creative versions of baking classics, including long-fermented sourdough bread and savory granola. Big Dipper Creamery is a popular mobile cart featuring locally-made, small-batch ice cream with fresh ingredients and adventurous flavors.

Bodhi's Bowl is a fast-casual concept featuring authentic, gourmet rice-based bowls, without the cost or inconvenience of a full-service restaurant. The Wurst is a popular mobile cart featuring bratwurst made locally by Siegi's and then soaked in beer and butter before being fried on a flat griddle.

"We are thrilled to be able to open our first brick-and-mortar location, alongside other food businesses that we love and are inspired by," said Morgan Barkley, Emily Landry and Emily Price of Bakeshop.

"We can't wait to be able to consistently provide our customers with super fresh sourdough breads, creative pastries and our flavorful cafe menu. It's an exciting moment in Tulsa's food scene, and we are proud to be a part of it."

James Wagner, chef at Bodhi's Bowl, said that "without question, I am looking forward to being a part of something much bigger than just Bodhi's Bowl. The Mother Road Market will be a community of entrepreneurs coming together under one roof to bring businesses and attractions to Route 66. Bodhi's Bowl is looking very forward to being a part of that movement."

"We're excited to have a local spot for everyone to be able to enjoy our ice cream, and we can't wait to be a part of the Mother Road Market community. We're hoping to build a company that's fun to work for, collaborate with, and support. Being a part of the Mother Road Market will help us actualize that dream," said Samantha Cooper of Big Dipper Creamery.

Bakeshop and Bodhi's Bowl serve breakfast and lunch on most Mondays and Wednesdays at the Kitchen 66 Café. Visit kitchen66tulsa.com for the full schedule.

Kitchen 66, Tulsa's food incubator and a nonprofit program of the Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation, will also expand its affordable commercial kitchen space offerings in the Mother Road Market, boasting 2,800 square feet. Kitchen 66 has now served more than 75 food entrepreneurs, hailing from more than 10 different countries, with more than 50 percent of Kitchen 66 businesses being women-owned.

"Kitchen 66 is so excited for the opportunity that Mother Road Market brings for these four companies, but this announcement is also huge for the future of Kitchen 66 as an incubator," said Adele Beasley, Kitchen 66 program director.

"Seeing these companies graduate the Kitchen 66 Launch Program and then move on to secure shops in Mother Road Market proves that aspiring food entrepreneurs have not only the resources to bring their ideas to life here but also have the resources to then scale meaningful food businesses for Tulsa."

The overall estimated economic impact for the first year of Mother Road Market is $23 million.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/mother-road-market-announces-four-new-tenants/article_7f7f770a-f3e1-5456-96bf-226155cb97df.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/mother-road-market-announces-four-new-tenants/article_7f7f770a-f3e1-5456-96bf-226155cb97df.html)

QuoteSourdough bread and other goodies to be staples at Bakeshop

Bakery scheduled to open in June at Mother Road Market

To its aproned creators, Bakeshop is less about the work and more about the fun.

"It's been a great time," pastry chef Morgan Barkley said of the venture, which this month became one of four businesses to land a space in Mother Road Market. "If nothing else, we're just nibbling together all day, cracking jokes. Usually, we're really happy with how it turns out."

Said Bakeshop bread baker Emily Price: "We're just making food that we want to eat. So far, other people seem to want to eat it, too."

Price's wife, Emily Landry, is the administrative and marketing arm of Bakeshop, a graduate of the Kitchen 66 Launch Program that is scheduled to move into its 320-square-foot shop in June.

A project of the Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation, the $5.5 million Mother Road Market at 11th Street and Lewis Avenue will feature 17 small shops in 27,000 square feet of community space. It also will offer a bar, a demonstration kitchen for cooking classes, an indoor/outdoor seating area with views of downtown Tulsa and children's play areas.

"We really started with the sourdough bread and a small business concept, which was getting sourdough bread to people," Landry said. "Then we had to think about how do we do that in the long term and make that sustainable and build that out.

"Something that is a cross between a cafe and a bakery is really what worked out for us. So the Market is a really good fit in terms of having that space, having that market atmosphere."

The principals at Bakeshop have a combined 20 years experience baking and cooking in restaurants in places such as Tulsa, Sedona, Arizona, San Francisco and New Orleans, as well as in their home kitchens. Barkley and Price worked in the kitchen at Stonehorse Cafe in Utica Square.

"We realized that we really enjoyed baking together," Barkley said. "That was the best part of our day, being able to hang out and bake stuff."

Price said she and Barkley make "classic baked goods with sort of a savory twist." Barkley likened the menu to "bread plus."

"So, it's different things that go with bread or simple meals that bread would kind of complement. Sometimes, just a salad for dinner sounds a little bit boring, but if you had fresh, buttered bread, you knock it up a little bit."

Bring an appetite, they say, if you want one of their grilled cheese sandwiches. They also bake a cookie made from the spent grain at Heirloom Rustic Ales.

On Wednesdays, Bakeshop takes over Kitchen 66 Cafe, serving breakfast and lunch.

"We've been kind of blown away with the response we've gotten in terms of the people who come out and come back out," Landry said. "It's been a much higher volume that we expected."

Bakeshop wants to foster that same kind of customer satisfaction on 11th Street.

"We're really interested in being part of a community and bringing people together, literally breaking bread," Barkley said. "Something about the Mother Road that we really like is that there are going to be other businesses in there doing other things, and hopefully our products will complement theirs — and likewise."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/sourdough-bread-and-other-goodies-to-be-staples-at-bakeshop/article_86ea1e07-de81-5f57-aaad-3f7b0e077cf2.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/sourdough-bread-and-other-goodies-to-be-staples-at-bakeshop/article_86ea1e07-de81-5f57-aaad-3f7b0e077cf2.html)

These food halls have been a hit in other cities so this will be an exciting development at 11th & Lewis.  And Renaissance Brewery is across the street.

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 27, 2017, 01:09:37 PM
Have you been to the neighborhood SE of 11th and Lewis, lately? That is the Renaissance Neighborhood. In the past it was a mixed bag, with the east side much nicer (East of Delaware) while the west side was pretty shabby. Over the last 10 years, the section west of Delaware has really come on line. There are very few "dilapidated" homes in Renaissance any more. The worst of them are the duplexes that fill a couple streets near the new brewery, but those just need updated, not demolished. The potential profits from  updating a house around there makes renting a tougher choice.

There are very few homes I would want to be demolished around there as so many have great bones in the 1920's English Cottage Revival style along with bungalows. The 1940's-50's homes along Delaware Place across from the school could use demolish/replacement or big updates, but as a whole the neighborhood is pretty awesome now with homes commonly going for $200k-$300k or more. That's a price point that just doesn't exist in the neighborhoods north or west of there (or NW in Whittier).

Unless you're talking about demolishing the ransacked houses north of 11th which is already being done by TU, Capital Homes, GKFF and others as they have a big neighborhood plan for that area with several huge developments planned and in process.

There are still some "dilapidated" homes in NW Renaissance, but not as many as several years ago.  Forrest Orchard has some but generally the neighborhoods south of 11th are pretty stable.  North of 11th is different story and will take many years to gentrify but it's definitely starting.

QuoteMetropolis, a new Andolini's creation, will debut in Mother Road Market

Andolini's two spaces in Mother Road Market will include a new restaurant concept from Andolini's called Metropolis, it was announced Thursday.

Metropolis will serve Italian and American sandwiches and frankfurters, drawing inspiration from the classic foods of some of America's most popular cities.

"We searched for the right ingredients, methods and history behind iconic foods like the Chicago Beef or New York Sabrett hot dogs and the 'Pittsburgh Sandwich,'" Mike Bausch, owner of Andolini's Pizzeria, said in a statement.



"We're going to be making those kinds of foods exactly the way they're made in their city of origin. People who know us for making gelato just like they do in Italy, or for making a pizza 100 percent worth eating — those people aren't going to be disappointed when we take on sandwiches and frankfurters."

Andolini's on the Mother Road, which will serve primarily pizza, will be its other offering in Mother Road Market, a 27,000-square-foot food hall under construction at 11th Street and Lewis Avenue. Developed by the Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation, the $5.5 million market is expected to open in late summer.

"We think people who are traveling down Route 66 and stop at the Mother Road Market to eat will find an amazing selection, and we want their experience at Mother Road Market to build a good impression of our city," Bausch said. "We're looking forward to being a part of that."

Established in 2005 by brothers Mike and Jim Bausch, Andolini's operates two locations in Tulsa and restaurants in Owasso, Broken Arrow and Jenks.

"Andolini's has become one the most popular restaurants in the Tulsa metro over the past thirteen years," Elizabeth Frame Ellison, CEO of Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation, said in a statement. "In its heyday, Route 66 was a place to experience the flavor of different communities while traveling along the mother road, and Metropolis will encapsulate this experience by giving customers well known street food items from around the country!

"We are thrilled that the Bausch family has chosen Mother Road Market as the ideal location to launch this brand new concept. Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation strives to support innovation and experimentation, so it is great to see Andolini's not only serving their tried and true favorites, but also giving the community something completely new and different within Mother Road Market."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/metropolis-a-new-andolini-s-creation-will-debut-in-mother/article_5f9f8c31-a673-5e4d-a5c9-030a5194397f.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/metropolis-a-new-andolini-s-creation-will-debut-in-mother/article_5f9f8c31-a673-5e4d-a5c9-030a5194397f.html)

Quote from: SXSW on January 31, 2018, 12:08:59 PM
These food halls have been a hit in other cities so this will be an exciting development at 11th & Lewis.  And Renaissance Brewery is across the street.

When my wife and I travel, one of the best/most memorable experiences is going to the various food halls/mini-markets/food courts that are full of local vendors and local cuisine. In LA, there's Grand Central Market downtown and "The Original Farms Market" at the Grove. In NYC, there's Chelsea Market. Dallas has the Truck Yard and the Rustic. KC has the River Market. OKC is opening something like this by the Farmers Public Market (might already be open).

The article talks about the traveling aspect:

Quote"We think people who are traveling down Route 66 and stop at the Mother Road Market to eat will find an amazing selection, and we want their experience at Mother Road Market to build a good impression of our city," Bausch said. "We're looking forward to being a part of that."

Quote"In its heyday, Route 66 was a place to experience the flavor of different communities while traveling along the mother road, and Metropolis will encapsulate this experience by giving customers well known street food items from around the country!

I think this development is especially smart considering fast-casual dining experience is a trend that is on the uptick and better fits modern economics. The future of dining is collectives that offer many different food options in a nice/trendy environment that is more self-serve (so you can save time waiting, save money not having to tip as much and I can serve myself better and faster anyways!). Cheaper rent for restaurants, easier/smaller footprint for them to open and close. The whole place can do a better job absorbing losses and also benefit from overflow of very popular places.

I would eat at certain sit down restaurants more frequently if I had the option to order it and eat it there in a nice environment and self-serve. Fat Guys, Lone Wolf and Coney Islander have that down! If only I could do that at Dilly Diner, Kilkennies or Laffa (sure you can get to-go, but the atmosphere there is part of the experience!). After tip, dinners at those places end up being ~$30-$40 for 2 which makes it a bit  more of a rarity/special occasion place in my mind. If it were self serve, I could get the same food for closer to a much more palatable (pun intended) $20-$30.

Lone Wolf was founded on making very nice almost fine dining cuisine at fast-casual pricing. It is tremendous food for a great price considering a sit-down-restaurant serving that food would cost maybe double.

QuoteEdiblend Superfood Cafe to open a kiosk at Mother Road Market

Mother Road Market has added another business to its 27,000-square-foot food hall under construction near 11th Street and Lewis Avenue.

Ediblend Superfood Café is a fresh kiosk that features grab-and-go, blends, salads, breakfast items and snacks. Owned by sisters Piper Kacere and Amy Murray, it has been in business since 2014.

"Our mission is to help our clients believe they can live a healthy lifestyle, empower them to make good choices and transform them with superfoods that will nourish from the inside out," the siblings said in a statement.


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"As native Tulsans, we care about the health of our community. With the addition of the ediblend fresh kiosk at the Mother Road Market, we'll be providing plant-based, whole food options so Tulsans and tourists alike can have a healthy choice at their disposal."

It joins previously announced tenants Andolini's on the Mother Road, Bakeshop, Big Dipper Creamery, Bodhi's Bowl, Metropolis, OKCookieMomster and The Wurst at the food hall. Ediblend will continue to operate its locations at Utica Square and 10115 S. Sheridan Road.

Mother Road Market is scheduled to open in late summer.

"Mother Road Market is proud to welcome another thriving women-owned business to our tenant mix," Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation CEO Elizabeth Frame Ellison said in a statement. "Ediblend's raw, vegan menu has been a favorite of our team since they brought samples to judges during their pitch at the Tulsa Startup Series in 2014.

"We are thrilled to work with this incredible company again to offer our customers a healthy, vegan and raw meal or snack."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/ediblend-superfood-cafe-to-open-a-kiosk-at-mother-road/article_e02c94a7-a7c3-51e8-901b-97a76c800869.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/ediblend-superfood-cafe-to-open-a-kiosk-at-mother-road/article_e02c94a7-a7c3-51e8-901b-97a76c800869.html)

QuoteIt (Ediblend) joins previously announced tenants Andolini's on the Mother Road, Bakeshop, Big Dipper Creamery, Bodhi's Bowl, Metropolis, OKCookieMomster and The Wurst at the food hall. Ediblend will continue to operate its locations at Utica Square and 10115 S. Sheridan Road.

Looks like at least 8 of the up to 17 vendors are picked out. Good mix of options so far.

QuoteMother Road Market adds a pair of tenants
Mother Road Market has announced two new tenants to its food hall concept near Route 66.

The Nest will open a second location, expanding on its array of local, vintage, chic and unique home and lifestyle products. Radish, a brand-new concept to Tulsa, will enable patrons to experience a Mediterranean-inspired, Okie rotisserie kitchen, creating a new food genre affectionately titled "midwesterranean."


A nonprofit development of the Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation, Mother Road Market will feature 320-square-foot shop models that allow entrepreneurs to test their latest concepts. It is scheduled to open late this summer at 11th Street and Lewis Avenue.

Owned by Allan Suzor with Nathan Lane, The Nest will focus on offering kitchen products and gift items. Customers will also be able to purchase Tulsa's favorite candles, poured just blocks away at its original location, The Nest on Cherry Street.

"We're most excited to be at Mother Road Market for the food and a sense of community that comes with a development like this," Suzor said in a statement. "To watch businesses grow and thrive and be part of that on the ground floor will be amazing. We're excited to be surrounded by great people like the Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation and innovative programs like Kitchen 66."

Owned by Cherokee Nation members Seth Smith, the head chef, and his wife, Melissa, Radish promises a menu of mindfully sourced meats, wraps, sandwiches and healthy gourmet salads and sides. A former executive chef at Philbrook Museum of Art, Seth Smith trained at Le Cordon Bleu in London.

"We just love food and believe healthy, wholesome eating should be fresh, fun and delicious," he said in a statement. "We can't wait to introduce Tulsa to our 'midwesterranean' menu, and Mother Road Market was the perfect place to launch this new concept."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/smallbusiness/mother-road-market-adds-a-pair-of-tenants/article_cc1b713b-36da-5fd1-9375-f547fe8173a9.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/smallbusiness/mother-road-market-adds-a-pair-of-tenants/article_cc1b713b-36da-5fd1-9375-f547fe8173a9.html)

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on May 02, 2018, 11:49:40 AM

QuoteIt (Ediblend) joins previously announced tenants Andolini's on the Mother Road, Bakeshop, Big Dipper Creamery, Bodhi's Bowl, Metropolis, OKCookieMomster and The Wurst at the food hall. Ediblend will continue to operate its locations at Utica Square and 10115 S. Sheridan Road.

Looks like at least 8 of the up to 17 vendors are picked out. Good mix of options so far.

Now 10 of 17 chosen. This is sounding like it could grow into a legitimate "modern food court" which could have enough places with cult-followings to keep a steady stream of customers.

I was initially worried that it would be a bunch of shops with very limited appeal like a doggy treat bakery, specialty soda shop or salt-spice shop (all things I've seen go through Kitchen 66). It looks like it's going to be lots of good-sounding interesting novel food places with a few shops with (potentially) decent/varied inventory. Nest is great so I'd expect the kitchen-themed version to be done well also.

From what I've heard the "market hall" is the first phase of an eventually larger future mixed-use residential and office development at 11th & Lewis.  Not sure how far along that is but that's the end goal.  That whole area right there has a ton of potential for redevelopment on both sides of the tracks west of Lewis.

Quote from: SXSW on May 10, 2018, 12:11:52 PM
From what I've heard the "market hall" is the first phase of an eventually larger future mixed-use residential and office development at 11th & Lewis.  Not sure how far along that is but that's the end goal.  That whole area right there has a ton of potential for redevelopment on both sides of the tracks west of Lewis.

Is that why Taylor was attempting to place a farmers market there on Saturdays?

Quote from: SXSW on May 10, 2018, 12:11:52 PM
From what I've heard the "market hall" is the first phase of an eventually larger future mixed-use residential and office development at 11th & Lewis.  Not sure how far along that is but that's the end goal.  That whole area right there has a ton of potential for redevelopment on both sides of the tracks west of Lewis.

That sounds great! I hope this goes well enough to help fund the future developments. I knew there was something planned across the street next to Renaissance but didn't know details. Originally it was going to be the Mother Road Market, but apparently construction costs forced them to use the existing building instead. It looks like they are already advertising leasing for the commercial space in the empty lots, so might not be too far down the road (pun intended).

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on May 11, 2018, 11:36:20 AM
That sounds great! I hope this goes well enough to help fund the future developments. I knew there was something planned across the street next to Renaissance but didn't know details. Originally it was going to be the Mother Road Market, but apparently construction costs forced them to use the existing building instead. It looks like they are already advertising leasing for the commercial space in the empty lots, so might not be too far down the road (pun intended).

I just hope they don't do pad sites but instead keep it an urban mixed-use development with retail fronting 11th and offices or apartments above, and maybe an interior courtyard for outdoor seating that connects to Mother Road Market.  Something like Backyard on Blake in Denver would work well here:

(http://s22409.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/backyard-on-blake_courtesy-mainspring-developers.jpg)

Quote from: SXSW on May 11, 2018, 11:59:49 AM
I just hope they don't do pad sites but instead keep it an urban mixed-use development with retail fronting 11th and offices or apartments above, and maybe an interior courtyard for outdoor seating that connects to Mother Road Market.  Something like Backyard on Blake in Denver would work well here:

That looks great. I hope they incorporate that building on corner if it's the SW corner being developed. The blank/bulldozed lots are fronting Lewis between auto store and the brewery. I hope they can create some way for pedestrians to cross more safely to the market. Either a new pedestrian-only stoplight or preferably a bridge of some sort would be nice.

QuoteTrenchers among new tenants announced at Mother Road Market

Three more Tulsa businesses have signed leases with Mother Road Market, a 27,000-square-foot food hall being built near the corner of 11th Street and Lewis Avenue.

They are Mythic Press, A New Leaf and Trenchers Delicatessen. Mother Road Market, which has announced 12 of its 17 tenants, is expected to be completed in August.

Mythic Press is an apparel and merchandise cart with Tulsa-themed and Route 66 merchandise. Owned by Cole Cunningham and Hershel Self, it began by focusing on corporate and event branding through screen printing, embroidery and promotional products at its main location just blocks from Mother Road Market.

"All of our items offered at Mother Road Market will be designed and produced locally at our shop just blocks down the street on Route 66," Cunningham said in a statement. "We're really excited to be engaged and involved in our community through Mother Road Market and to be able to get that real-time feedback from customers on our products."

A New Leaf is a nonprofit organization that provides individuals with developmental disabilities life skills, marketable job training through horticultural therapy, community-based vocational placement and residential services to increase their independence. The additional retail space in MRM will offer items such as floral arrangements, produce and planters.

"We are very excited to allow our clients to have even more exposure to the community," Kevin Harper, director of marketing and business development, said in a statement. "The Mother Road Market is an amazing way for us to display the items our clients grow and create while educating the community about who we are."

Owned by Zach and Melinda Curren, Trenchers Delicatessen's second Tulsa venue will be called Trenchers Crustacean Station. It plans to serve year-round lobster rolls, chocolate-covered ice cream sandwiches and blackberry-flavored Clearly Canadian. Zach Curren brings a wealth of food industry experience to the table.

"The restaurant industry is the only job I've ever had, going back as early as high school," he said in a statement. "I worked for my dad for many years at T2, Local Table, Biga and Bodean, then started doing pastries for my wife at Shades of Brown. Later I was asked to design a menu for Chimera and ultimately opened Trenchers Delicatessen in 2013. I love to cook and want people to enjoy our food."

I'm not sure if anyone else cares but pretty exciting to me and many others in surrounding neighborhoods that this Mother Road Market is shaping up to be a really great collective with almost all tenants announced. And the August open date sounds pretty great.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/trenchers-among-new-tenants-announced-at-mother-road-market/article_18079e14-0ab3-5da6-bcd3-e80c45dde610.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/trenchers-among-new-tenants-announced-at-mother-road-market/article_18079e14-0ab3-5da6-bcd3-e80c45dde610.html)

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on April 26, 2018, 11:47:25 AM
When my wife and I travel, one of the best/most memorable experiences is going to the various food halls/mini-markets/food courts that are full of local vendors and local cuisine. In LA, there's Grand Central Market downtown and "The Original Farms Market" at the Grove. In NYC, there's Chelsea Market. Dallas has the Truck Yard and the Rustic. KC has the River Market. OKC is opening something like this by the Farmers Public Market (might already be open).

The article talks about the traveling aspect:

Milwaukee has a very nice Public Market place.  Some really good food!!

Quote
Kitchen 66 to open a general store in Mother Road Market

Kitchen 66, Tulsa's kickstart kitchen, will open a general store as part of its new commercial space inside the upcoming Mother Road Market, it was announced Tuesday.

A program of the Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation, Kitchen 66 also is partnering with Tulsa Farmers' Market for a "farm stand" section within the general store.

Mother Road Market is a 27,000-square-foot food hall scheduled to open in August at 1124 S. Lewis Ave. Tuesday marked the grand opening of Kitchen 66's new 2,800 square-foot commercial kitchen at that location.


The Kitchen 66 General Store, which also will open in August, will offer a curated mix of packaged products, swag items and household goods, integrating products made by Kitchen 66's own entrepreneurs with products from other Oklahoma makers.

Kitchen 66 members Cooktime with Remmi, Okie Dough and Baby D's Bee Sting, as well as Oklahoma-based Elevate Candles and Happenstance Coffee, will be among the contributors to the general store.

The Tulsa Farmers' Market will operate the Farm Stand, providing locally grown, farm-to-table produce, meat and dairy.

Also announced Tuesday was the Beta Year Impact Report, authored by Natalie Deuschle, LTFF director of grants and impact.

It showed that from January 2016 to July 2017, Kitchen 66 added $164,160 in goods and services to the Tulsa area. It also indicated that 50 percent of beta year entrepreneurs were female, 47 percent were people of color and 16 percent were at or below the poverty line.

Since 2016, Kitchen 66 has offered affordable access to commercial kitchen space, business training programs and sales opportunities to food entrepreneurs.

Kitchen 66 will also operate an additional space in Mother Road Market for the Takeover Café. The model was made popular at the former Sun Building location. Kitchen 66 members can sign up to takeover the shop for breakfast or lunch and practice running the front and back of the house, gaining valuable customer feedback.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/kitchen-to-open-a-general-store-in-mother-road-market/article_7f470fc7-e9e0-541a-8285-b30c20253494.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/kitchen-to-open-a-general-store-in-mother-road-market/article_7f470fc7-e9e0-541a-8285-b30c20253494.html)

So that looks like 14 of 17 new tenants are now announced. Only 2 more months. I hope the road is completed by then. I also hope they add a pedestrian crosswalk with button-push cross-light so neighbors and those at the developments across the street can safely cross.

QuotePhoto gallery: Tour Kitchen 66 in the new Mother Road Market

http://www.tulsaworld.com/photovideo/slideshows/photo-gallery-tour-kitchen-in-the-new-mother-road-market/collection_b82fa44d-e954-590b-b5fa-59a6b44d8864.html#1 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/photovideo/slideshows/photo-gallery-tour-kitchen-in-the-new-mother-road-market/collection_b82fa44d-e954-590b-b5fa-59a6b44d8864.html#1)

It also shows a sneak peak of the Mother Road Market. Quite a few pics showing the layout and booths which have been framed out and some drywall up.

QuoteSouthern-style eatery from Lone Wolf founders, plus Mexican concept added to Mother Road Market

Two more businesses have found homes in Mother Road Market, Tulsa's new food hall being erected at 1124 S. Lewis Ave.

They are Chicken and the Wolf, from the creators and Lone Wolf Banh Mi, and & Tacos, a concept from the owners of food truck Pollo Al Carbon. Mother Road Market, a 27,000-square-foot food hall with about 20 businesses, is expected to open in August.

Owned by Philip and Danielle Phillips, Chicken and the Wolf will feature Nashville-style hot and buttermilk fried chicken sandwiches, hot chicken fries and Southern sides, including house-made pickles and sauces. The business will use antibiotic-free and hormone-free chicken.


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The Phillipses have been working in the Tulsa food scene for the last fifteen years and in 2012 founded Lone Wolf Banh Mi, whose locations will all remain open.

"We are stoked to be part of one of the most progressive local food ideas ever in Mother Road Market," Philip Phillips said in a statement. "It's a place that we will want to bring our kids and friends, and we are honored to be able to contribute to this experience.

"We are progressive in our view of food, and Mother Road Market falls right in line with what we want to see in our great and growing hometown of Tulsa."

Mario Mazedo and Daniel Ruiz are fronting & Tacos, which will focus heavily on Mexican street food.

"I have been in the food business for 10 years, and I am passionate about bringing flavors from my hometown of Nuevo Leon, Mexico, to Tulsa," Mazedo said in a statement. "The thing I love most about my business is the experience of sharing these tastes from my old home to my new home."

One space remains in Mother Road Market and that tenant is expected to be announced soon. Previously announced tenants include Andolini's Pizzeria, Ediblend, Kitchen 66 General Store + Farm Stand by Tulsa Farmers' Market,  Oklahoma Joe's and Trenchers Crustacean Station.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/smallbusiness/southern-style-eatery-from-lone-wolf-founders-plus-mexican-concept/article_d5eab218-e47c-5c44-9bd7-6b9580cfb049.html#tncms-source=article-nav-next (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/smallbusiness/southern-style-eatery-from-lone-wolf-founders-plus-mexican-concept/article_d5eab218-e47c-5c44-9bd7-6b9580cfb049.html#tncms-source=article-nav-next)

If I've done my math right, Chicken and the Wolf and "& Tacos" make it 16 of 17 vendors announced. Pretty cool how fast they've moved.

I think they should have some sort of beer/beverage stand like they have at Fuel 66 with a wide selection of local beers and maybe wine also.

Would be neat to have one common fountain drink/condiment area where drink profits are shared (or used to help pay everyone's overhead).

Opening date announced!

QuoteFoodie haven: Mother Road Market to open Nov. 2

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/foodie-haven-mother-road-market-to-open-nov/article_a7a88336-670c-5fac-8f45-0861fb7fe3dd.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/foodie-haven-mother-road-market-to-open-nov/article_a7a88336-670c-5fac-8f45-0861fb7fe3dd.html)

QuoteSee who's going into Mother Road Market when it opens Nov. 2

https://www.tulsaworld.com/photovideo/slideshows/see-who-s-going-into-mother-road-market-when-it/collection_9be5f7a8-d220-5f1a-8b68-e2631c9cab60.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/photovideo/slideshows/see-who-s-going-into-mother-road-market-when-it/collection_9be5f7a8-d220-5f1a-8b68-e2631c9cab60.html)

Let's see if they can get a pedestrian crossing at 13th so residents and brewery visitors can cross more safely.

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 21, 2018, 01:51:11 PM
If I've done my math right, Chicken and the Wolf and "& Tacos" make it 16 of 17 vendors announced. Pretty cool how fast they've moved.

I think they should have some sort of beer/beverage stand like they have at Fuel 66 with a wide selection of local beers and maybe wine also.

Would be neat to have one common fountain drink/condiment area where drink profits are shared (or used to help pay everyone's overhead).

Article says there will be ~20 total vendors/shops.

Mother Road will operate "Kitchen 66 Takeover Cafe" (Where startup aspiring restaurateurs can practice running a real restaurant) and Kitchen 66 General Store there. There will also be a 9-hole Route-66 themed mini golf course.

There will also be a common bar serving coffee/drinks which can be carried throughout food hall. Photos show the dock area on west side that looks like it could house quite a large patio area (maybe mini-golf will be there too).

Sounds like they're doing this right, making it a destination and going over-the-top in terms of what you'd expect from a food hall.

Quote
Let's see if they can get a pedestrian crossing at 13th so residents and brewery visitors can cross more safely.

You mean at 12th?  Isn't most of the parking across Lewis north of Renaissance Brewery? 

Looking forward to Mother Road Market finally opening, and for future phases around the building at 11th & Lewis

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/59653c9ef7e0ab450708da5c/59690ad2e6f2e17468e2b4db/59775fccd1758e6e542bce13/1527091310240/image004.png?format=1000w)

Quote from: SXSW on October 11, 2018, 10:06:23 PM
You mean at 12th?  Isn't most of the parking across Lewis north of Renaissance Brewery? 

Yes I meant 12th.

Quote from: SXSW on October 12, 2018, 04:49:51 PM
Looking forward to Mother Road Market finally opening, and for future phases around the building at 11th & Lewis

Have you heard anything about the other phases planned? I remember hearing about mixed use development the LTFF had planned for the lots they bulldozed north of the brewery. They recently demolished the old welding building on the NW corner of 11th and Lewis. Wondering if that's all going to remain empty lots for the foreseeable future.

The Welding School still owns that lot at NW corner of 11th and Lewis. Not sure what they have planned for that. I hope it's more than just leaving it empty indefinitely. The previous building there appeared decent for a welding school, better than empty lots at least.

All the lots around the Mother Road Market are owned by "1124 SOUTH LEWIS AVE LLC" and the empty lots on the east side are owned by "FERNWEH SHOPS LLC". A search of that brings up this listing for commercial retail space available: http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1115-1121-S-Lewis-Ave-Tulsa-OK/4345689/ (http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1115-1121-S-Lewis-Ave-Tulsa-OK/4345689/)

(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/bl6jEsJvyg04D5KwoeCo_d82-zPlnWJN70t6RYNT_zM/112/image.jpg)

(https://images4.loopnet.com/i2/cyevVC-qYDHpMoAuSfRcFpWnMnzkfA-h2a3iZC4ODKc/112/image.jpg)

(https://images2.loopnet.com/i2/sk19FCcYrUOE_FSU9gUC0_IPr9i7U5YAbkZ0EV_rz_U/112/image.jpg)

Street-fronted development with limited rear parking. Seems like it'll add life to that stretch. Not the greatest looking or most unique development but looks like it matches the brewery and Mother Road Market pretty well and a huge improvement over what was there (some unsightly old industrial buildings). It will accommodate up to 9 tenants.

I'm wondering if they're foreseeing a path of tenants from Mother Road Market to across the street if they get to that level. I'd guess the rent needs to be pretty affordable for that spot (Listing says ~$18/ft2/year which sounds pretty good), or at least for a while. It's just out of convenience range for a lot of TU students since they've become a residential campus, but very convenient for midtowners in a spot that's sort of out of sight for most right now, especially considering there's no exit to it or visibility from the BA. Maybe the Mother Road Market will "activate" that area. Years ago it was rumored these lots were owned by LTFF and were slated to become the Mother Road Market and a mixed use development. Apparently they have reduced it to just retail/commercial which is a shame because residential would add a nice component to the area and help diversify to keep it feasible. A multi-story building would be a lot better use of the space.

Overall this is good news for Renaissance residents. Awesome to see the stretches around Renaissance go from pretty bleak and unused to what is planned now. 

^ I had figured they were going to just do parking north of Renaissance Brewery so that's good news that more retail is planned.  Hopefully they can expand all the way to the corner of 11th & Lewis. 

Lots of good happenings all along this corridor.  It will take time for it be a cohesive urban district but it's moving in the right direction.  If only we could get a BRT or even better streetcar line running down this stretch between downtown and TU that would probably accelerate development and connect the different pieces (Meadow Gold District, Hillcrest, Terrace Drive/11th & Lewis and Renaissance/TU).

More info on proposed additional developments at 11th & Lewis:

QuoteIt is a scraped lot now at 11th and Lewis, but developers are eying it for 5,000 square feet of commercial space, three to four stories of apartments, townhouses, and a multilevel parking garage.

QuoteThe Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation has pledged several million dollars up front to get moving on things like improving traffic congestion, sidewalks, and crosswalks.

"The city still makes all the design decisions with the hope that they will get reimbursed through the TIF," said Ellison.

"Having a foundation willing to front the project, we haven't seen this before and this is a really exciting thing for Route 66," said Ewing.

It isn't just potential for shopping or apartment developments in the area.  The Renaissance neighborhood is there, as well.

"It is right by TU.  Seems like an ideal place to live to me," Ellison said.  "The city is talking about bus rapid transit so, in theory, you could be a one-car or no-car family if you work downtown."

http://www.newson6.com/story/39290190/new-development-project-in-the-works-near-11th-lewis-in-tulsa (http://www.newson6.com/story/39290190/new-development-project-in-the-works-near-11th-lewis-in-tulsa)

Quote from: SXSW on October 15, 2018, 05:54:16 PM
More info on proposed additional developments at 11th & Lewis:

http://www.newson6.com/story/39290190/new-development-project-in-the-works-near-11th-lewis-in-tulsa (http://www.newson6.com/story/39290190/new-development-project-in-the-works-near-11th-lewis-in-tulsa)

Nice! Good to see that's in the cards still. Not sure why the renderings only show 1-level. Maybe that's just 1 option while they see what they can get in terms of a TIFF... Maybe they can use that as leverage. The single-level retail-only for no TIFF or 3/4-story mixed-use and retail if they can get a TIFF. Smart if it works and probably win-win for the area.

Businesses in that area have been experiencing a lot of vandalism, trash cans dumped out, aggressive panhandling, etc. These issues need to be addressed by TPD or it will hinder growth.

Renderings of the Center for Individuals with Physical Challenges expansion under construction at 11th & Utica

(http://www.tulsacenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/expansion2.jpg)

(http://www.tulsacenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/expansion4.jpg)

We drove by there a couple weeks ago and saw it in process.  Nice!!

I saw this new listing for a new build retail development where there was an empty parking lot just south of where Retro Den is at 1232 S Harvard:
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1232-S-Harvard-Ave-Tulsa-OK/11306537/#

(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/R9xGbJfLncXFc1Ay6p2B4O1Fd6kKZIKEunM6mf8TGkw/112/image.jpg)

Looks to be about 5,600 sq feet and up to 4/5 units. That's good news for the area.  There's already a retail strip across the road and already a decent amount of varied retail on that stretch. The area has a walkscore of 72 which is high for Tulsa. Would be good if they could create a place to draw students out a bit more from TU, an easy walk away from the Bucaneer lounge!

I always thought that lot was such and awkward and expensive waste of land. I've never seen it used except for TU games. The Prosperity Bank lot is ridiculous, taking up 20 lots. I've never seen it more than half full except for TU games. You could put in 6 home lots or a mixed-use development there and still have plenty of parking.

I've parked in that lot during TU games for years. I would selfishly kind of hate to see it developed.

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 23, 2018, 11:42:11 AM
I saw this new listing for a new build retail development where there was an empty parking lot just south of where Retro Den is at 1232 S Harvard:
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1232-S-Harvard-Ave-Tulsa-OK/11306537/#

(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/R9xGbJfLncXFc1Ay6p2B4O1Fd6kKZIKEunM6mf8TGkw/112/image.jpg)

Looks to be about 5,600 sq feet and up to 4/5 units. That's good news for the area.  There's already a retail strip across the road and already a decent amount of varied retail on that stretch. The area has a walkscore of 72 which is high for Tulsa. Would be good if they could create a place to draw students out a bit more from TU, an easy walk away from the Bucaneer lounge!

I always thought that lot was such and awkward and expensive waste of land. I've never seen it used except for TU games. The Prosperity Bank lot is ridiculous, taking up 20 lots. I've never seen it more than half full except for TU games. You could put in 6 home lots or a mixed-use development there and still have plenty of parking.

That's a narrow strip between the houses and Harvard, will this front the sidewalk with parking behind?

Outdoor patio at Mother Road Market with a skyline view

(https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44758936_2135891516661436_6191983659776475136_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fapa1-2.fna&oh=b6a3037c9a56ad7edc00181589c01579&oe=5C3E8F4A)

Quote from: SXSW on October 24, 2018, 01:36:34 PM
Outdoor patio at Mother Road Market with a skyline view

Wow! That's looking awesome! Thanks for the sneak peak!

I was hoping they'd utilize that entire covered area for a patio. That could be the best patio in Tulsa. Definitely a top-notch outdoor area which looks like it's in similar vein to what they did at Fuel 66. Seems like a big key to have that these days, especially in a food-court type place. On Saturdays, parents want to take their kids to enjoy outside. If you can eat and enjoy some leisure time outside, all the better.

Beautiful view of the Tulsa Skyline, simply awesome!  My son who lives in Tulsa loves to remind me; now dad, there's a skyline.  He loves the blaze of the refineries.

That's the difference where I'll give Tulsa's downtown skyline the edge over OKC's; the beautiful lighted towers, they highlight & reflect the downtown towers.  Oklahoma City's underground Metro Concourse killed its street life.  

The OKC downtown at night looks dark and dead.

11th & Utica?

I dated a young lady in Tulsa back in the late 70s; IIRC she took me to a small bar over near what use to be a closed Safeway grocery store on somewhere on Utica called Friends; great time we had watching the female impersonators; nearly died with laughter when one of the guy impersonators performed with what appeared to be a crystal chandelier hat covering his/her head. We had a very enjoyable night back then.

Mother Road Market is now open

http://www.newson6.com/story/39405117/tulsas-mother-road-market-to-open-today (http://www.newson6.com/story/39405117/tulsas-mother-road-market-to-open-today)

Quote from: SXSW on November 02, 2018, 02:20:23 PM
Mother Road Market is now open

http://www.newson6.com/story/39405117/tulsas-mother-road-market-to-open-today (http://www.newson6.com/story/39405117/tulsas-mother-road-market-to-open-today)

It is really well done! It is as nice as any of the similar places I've been to around the country like City Market in KC, Central Market in LA or Chelsea Market in NYC. Smaller than those maybe but seems perfectly large for what Tulsa's market should demand. More options than a typical food court in a mall and the options are much better quality.

I wasn't sure how big each "kiosk" would be or if some would feel sort of dinky, but most are pretty sizable with a few small carts on one side. Patio is awesome and will be fun for kids.

They did this right. It's an experience being there and I expect it'll be well supported for a while, although weekday evenings could be tough and I'd expect weekends will likely be crowded which will make parking a trick.

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on November 02, 2018, 02:55:49 PM
It is really well done! It is as nice as any of the similar places I've been to around the country like City Market in KC, Central Market in LA or Chelsea Market in NYC. Smaller than those maybe but seems perfectly large for what Tulsa's market should demand. More options than a typical food court in a mall and the options are much better quality.

I wasn't sure how big each "kiosk" would be or if some would feel sort of dinky, but most are pretty sizable with a few small carts on one side. Patio is awesome and will be fun for kids.

They did this right. It's an experience being there and I expect it'll be well supported for a while, although weekday evenings could be tough and I'd expect weekends will likely be crowded which will make parking a trick.

One here and one downtown is probably about right.  Interested to see what future phases around the market look like, especially the proposed retail project across Lewis and the lots fronting 11th (not sure if they are currently owned by Lobeck-Taylor or not though).  Lobeck-Taylor Foundation could do to 11th what GKFF has done to downtown and the river corridor.

One thing I noticed on a particularly busy day last week was that a lot of people park on the lot at the NW corner of 11th & Lewis and walk over.  Is that owned by the Lobeck-Taylor Foundation?  It's not really a parking lot but rather the old slab for the warehouse that used to be there.  Hoping for future phases that incorporate this lot, the buildings along 11th just to the north and the proposed development to the east (adjacent to Renaissance Brewery).

Yes the Lobeck-Taylor Foundation or affiliates own most of the properties around the 11th and Lewis intersection including that giant empty lot on the NW corner that they are using for temporary parking as well as Fuel 66 east of the intersection and the land N of Renaissance Brewery that a retail strip center is planned.  The proposed TIF for the area will benefit this area and their properties immensely (not passing judgement - just stating the obvious). 

QuoteMother Road Market is creating booming business on Route 66

It is not La Boqueria in Barcelona or the Fulton Fish Market in New York City. The Mother Road Market — Tulsa's new food, farm and retail hall — is a unique space adapting the traditional market to northeastern Oklahoma.

It is not near an ocean, but some of the nation's most fertile farm land is within minutes of midtown Tulsa.

"We are in a very rich area for home-grown farm products, innovative chefs and entrepreneurs," said Jeff Thompson, general manager of the Mother Road Market. "Tulsa has long been known as an every-man city. We've been used as a test market for many years.



Tulsa World journalism makes a difference. Be part of the story. Join us. Start a digital subscription for only 99¢.

"So if this concept works anywhere, it should be here. So far, so good."

The Mother Road Market, developed by the Lobeck Taylor Family Foundation, has been a hub of activity since it opened at 11th Street and Lewis Avenue.

Tulsans have embraced the idea of a food hall, with 15 food options and five retail spaces, on a piece of historic Route 66 that is undergoing a renaissance.

"When you see pictures of Seattle, one of the iconic scenes is Pike Place Market," said Thompson. "Because of where we are located, right on Route 66, I believe we have a chance to be an iconic location on one of the most famous roads in the world."

Like most food hall markets, the days start early and at a frenetic pace.

Bakers start working at 4 a.m. By 7 a.m., locally grown produce and other farm products start arriving for the Farm Stand, a small farm-to-market space that works with 27 local farmers.

"Everything is grown in Oklahoma, most of it very close to Tulsa," said Penni Shelton, coordinator of the Farm Stand. "We like to say everything in our space tastes like Oklahoma because all of it — 100 percent — is grown in this area.

"So far, it has far exceeded everything we thought possible. We have so many farmers that want to be a part of it, but we have limited space. But, no question, this has been as popular — actually much more popular — than we expected."

If you think the Mother Road Market is busy at lunchtime on Saturday, try it any morning around 9 a.m. before the doors open at 10 a.m.

Deliveries are being made to all of the 15 food stands. Farmers are bringing locally produced milk, cheese and meat to the Farm Stand.

"This place will change with the seasons," said Thompson. "No question, when it comes to the spring and we start getting some of the locally grown vegetables and fruits, it will change.

"This market will continue to evolve. It will change. Some things will work better than others. That's typical of a market like this."

Any of the famous markets change through the seasons and as the tastes of a region change. The Ferry Building in San Francisco remains extremely popular, but it is different now than it was five years ago.

Currently, there is a waiting list of entrepreneurs/chefs wanting space at Mother Road Market.

"It is sort of like putting together a rock band," said Thompson. "You go out and get a drummer and a guitar player and singer. They all might be great individually. But you have to see how those people fit together to make beautiful music.

"Right now we're seeing how all of these individual food and retail stands work together."

So far, fantastic.

Thompson said the sales volume at the market has exceeded all estimates by more than 170 percent.

"In many cases, it is double what we've expected," said Thompson. "So we are still kind of feeling our way through this. We're doing what we can to make adjustments and make this the best experience possible."

Thompson said Mother Road Market did a lot of research before deciding on what type of businesses and foods would work best for Tulsa.

"We certainly looked at a lot of other markets, but every city is different," said Thompson. "The good news is that I believe we got it right in a lot of ways. When we were planning for this market, we had more than 5,000 followers on Facebook, so we got a lot of feedback from people in what they wanted.

"We have a good mix of iconic Tulsa brands like Oklahoma Joe's Barbecue and Andolini's Sliced to new Tulsa-born ideas such as Bodhi's Bowl and Chicken and the Wolf."

A handful of food stands, including Big Dipper Creamery, are operated by entrepreneurs from the Kitchen 66 Launch Program, a food business incubator in Tulsa.

Bodhi's Bowl is a food stall that's gone from idea to actual business thanks to Mother Road Market.

"One of the great things about this market is all of the energy created here," said James Wegner, chef and owner of Bodhi's Bowl. "When I get here in the morning, it is a hive of activity. ... All of the people that work here are arriving to prep for the day. You've got all of the deliveries being made to the various restaurants. And I'm right across the hall from the Farm Stand, and you see the local farmers bringing in their products. It is a very cool place early in the morning."

Thompson said he can't estimate how many people are visiting Mother Road Market.

Obviously, anyone who has been to the market on Saturday mornings, with the winter farmers market in the parking lot on the west side, knows there is a traffic jam in every direction getting to 11th and Lewis.

"We estimated we needed about 600 customers a day to support everything we have here," said Thompson. "I don't have any specific numbers, but I can assure you we're doing far more than that every day.

"This is a unique space for Tulsa. We think people have embraced this idea, and we expect Route 66 visitors to make this a must-stop on the trip from Chicago to Los Angeles. We'll continue to change and evolve.

"The idea for this market has added another jewel for Tulsa just like Gathering Place. It is another cool thing to do and a reason to stop and spend some time here."

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/columnists/johnklein/john-klein-mother-road-market-is-creating-booming-business-on/article_c3104e6e-dc07-5eb3-b0c0-1124d64c30c1.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/columnists/johnklein/john-klein-mother-road-market-is-creating-booming-business-on/article_c3104e6e-dc07-5eb3-b0c0-1124d64c30c1.html)

I've been a couple times and when it's busy on weekends the staff has had trouble keeping up with trash, cleaning tables, etc  Hopefully as they figure out the busy times (they even said this is way more popular than they originally envisioned) they can get better.  

TW article about Aaron Meeks' latest project at 11th & Quaker: https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/michael-overall-tulsa-developer-remembers-route-the-way-it-used/article_74945e65-ebb6-51c5-9e53-2c8e98dd8ffc.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/michael-overall-tulsa-developer-remembers-route-the-way-it-used/article_74945e65-ebb6-51c5-9e53-2c8e98dd8ffc.html)

Anyone else really want to see the structure under the Meadow Gold sign get closed in and become an actual building?  That would make such a cool gift shop or small cafe/coffee shop.

Quote from: SXSW on February 04, 2019, 09:27:23 AM
TW article about Aaron Meeks' latest project at 11th & Quaker: https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/michael-overall-tulsa-developer-remembers-route-the-way-it-used/article_74945e65-ebb6-51c5-9e53-2c8e98dd8ffc.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/michael-overall-tulsa-developer-remembers-route-the-way-it-used/article_74945e65-ebb6-51c5-9e53-2c8e98dd8ffc.html)

Anyone else really want to see the structure under the Meadow Gold sign get closed in and become an actual building?  That would make such a cool gift shop or small cafe/coffee shop.

It could go any number of directions, including moving it back to the original location.

Quote from: patric on February 04, 2019, 01:49:34 PM
It could go any number of directions, including moving it back to the original location.

11th & Lewis?  I don't see it going anywhere especially since they have created a district around its name.  I'm sure Kathy Taylor and the creators of Mother Road Market wished it was still over there..

A few years ago there would've been no momentum to do anything but as the area comes back to life it looks more and more out of place for it to just be a structure and not a functional building.

Quote from: SXSW on February 04, 2019, 04:09:52 PM
11th & Lewis?  I don't see it going anywhere especially since they have created a district around its name.  I'm sure Kathy Taylor and the creators of Mother Road Market wished it was still over there..

A few years ago there would've been no momentum to do anything but as the area comes back to life it looks more and more out of place for it to just be a structure and not a functional building.

Not really, it's very reminiscent of the SE corner of Admiral & Lewis and to me, is sort of a gateway.

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/88/7880baca-0627-5334-8d1f-076c51b4e6e1/5249c0ae58d4a.image.jpg?resize=660%2C420)

There's construction at 10th and Peoria, just north of the old auto repair shop on the corner. Anyone know what's going in?

Quote from: DowntownDan on February 07, 2019, 08:52:54 AM
There's construction at 10th and Peoria, just north of the old auto repair shop on the corner. Anyone know what's going in?

I checked the permits site, and this is all it said:

"New 11k sqft Health Center and associated parking lot."


**Edited to thank Cannon for the instructions and links on how to do this.  It only took a few minutes:

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21758.msg328687#msg328687 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21758.msg328687#msg328687)

Quote from: SXSW on February 04, 2019, 09:27:23 AM
TW article about Aaron Meeks' latest project at 11th & Quaker: https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/michael-overall-tulsa-developer-remembers-route-the-way-it-used/article_74945e65-ebb6-51c5-9e53-2c8e98dd8ffc.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/michael-overall-tulsa-developer-remembers-route-the-way-it-used/article_74945e65-ebb6-51c5-9e53-2c8e98dd8ffc.html)

Aside from the bluish LED "wall pack" glare bombs security lights not conforming to zoning code, they just scream "high crime area"

There are so many new developments nearby that actually "get it" when it comes to warm, inviting lighting that isnt glary, so its a shame to see someone drop the ball.

In my mind "mixed-use" implies different types of use, and often means incorporating retail with residential. This just looks like a nicer than average strip mall. I think Lobeck Taylor has residential plans on that corner as a whole but this particular development doesn't strike me as "mixed-use."

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/million-mixed-use-development-going-up-east-of-mother-road/article_96c20fc7-fa34-5027-88de-3494905d3eef.html?fbclid=IwAR2I7jzk4j_BkOMjB9hK1DMFktWrZ2hIboojWVhTdsXdwycSfZIkaW6HjSA

Quote from: DowntownDan on February 25, 2019, 11:08:55 AM
In my mind "mixed-use" implies different types of use, and often means incorporating retail with residential. This just looks like a nicer than average strip mall. I think Lobeck Taylor has residential plans on that corner as a whole but this particular development doesn't strike me as "mixed-use."

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/million-mixed-use-development-going-up-east-of-mother-road/article_96c20fc7-fa34-5027-88de-3494905d3eef.html?fbclid=IwAR2I7jzk4j_BkOMjB9hK1DMFktWrZ2hIboojWVhTdsXdwycSfZIkaW6HjSA

Yeah not very mixed-use.  Hopefully whatever goes in at the corner has a residential component. 

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/bb/5bb6a4ac-fc2b-506d-9ae0-7b03f202a65f/5c741a6ca3abe.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C561)

Where a building contains more than one occupancy group it is technically considered Mixed Use. It's a hot term these days. Everybody's doin' it.  ;)

At least it's to the sidewalk with parking in the back. I guess that's the best we can hope for in Tulsa these days.

Agreed. W Design is doing the project. They have a good crew over there. I think they'll do it right. If there is to be lots of development over there in the near future. I think it would be wise for the city of Tulsa to examine doing a pedestrian bridge at that intersection of Lewis and 11th. More foot traffic means it's even more dangerous for pedestrians crossing the streets there. That intersession was not designed for the amount of foot traffic it has currently. 11th street is basically a walkers highway. Somebody is going to get ran over bad eventually.

It could be a cool bridge. Kind of like a gateway to downtown Tulsa on R66. Maybe some neon thrown in there somewhere. Could even have a design competition and make it fun. 

They already are reducing it to two lanes nearby, I assume as a traffic calming measure. They just need very wide, well painted, well lit crosswalks at the 11th and Lewis, with automatic walking signals. There are ways to make it safe for pedestrians.

Quote from: DowntownDan on February 26, 2019, 02:14:02 PM
They already are reducing it to two lanes nearby, I assume as a traffic calming measure. They just need very wide, well painted, well lit crosswalks at the 11th and Lewis, with automatic walking signals. There are ways to make it safe for pedestrians.

That's the approach the city should take, as the area redevelops and you have more sidewalk-fronting buildings it will naturally calm traffic along with the wider sidewalks and on-street parking.  No need for a pedestrian bridge. 

My first thought was "How is this 5 million dollars?" Seems awfully high unless the land was pretty expensive and or it includes the restaurant build out etc.  Usually a strip mall type development is one of the cheapest means of building. I would have thought 2.5 mill would be expensive, but 5, egads.

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 15, 2018, 11:14:49 AM
The Welding School still owns that lot at NW corner of 11th and Lewis. Not sure what they have planned for that. I hope it's more than just leaving it empty indefinitely. The previous building there appeared decent for a welding school, better than empty lots at least.

All the lots around the Mother Road Market are owned by "1124 SOUTH LEWIS AVE LLC" and the empty lots on the east side are owned by "FERNWEH SHOPS LLC". A search of that brings up this listing for commercial retail space available: http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1115-1121-S-Lewis-Ave-Tulsa-OK/4345689/ (http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1115-1121-S-Lewis-Ave-Tulsa-OK/4345689/)

(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/bl6jEsJvyg04D5KwoeCo_d82-zPlnWJN70t6RYNT_zM/112/image.jpg)

(https://images4.loopnet.com/i2/cyevVC-qYDHpMoAuSfRcFpWnMnzkfA-h2a3iZC4ODKc/112/image.jpg)

(https://images2.loopnet.com/i2/sk19FCcYrUOE_FSU9gUC0_IPr9i7U5YAbkZ0EV_rz_U/112/image.jpg)

Street-fronted development with limited rear parking. Seems like it'll add life to that stretch. Not the greatest looking or most unique development but looks like it matches the brewery and Mother Road Market pretty well and a huge improvement over what was there (some unsightly old industrial buildings). It will accommodate up to 9 tenants.

^ These images show the layout. Looks like it is for sure just a 1-story development. Not mixed use in spirit and maybe not even techinically (Maybe the zoning will be MX so they felt free to use that phrase incorrectly). They should've really tried to add at least 2nd floor apartments/office space. This is great to have these empty lots redeveloped, and it'll change the area drastically, but it seems short-sighted to make it single story retail development. It does look way better than most strip malls.

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 15, 2018, 11:22:02 AM
I'm wondering if they're foreseeing a path of tenants from Mother Road Market to across the street if they get to that level. I'd guess the rent needs to be pretty affordable for that spot (Listing says ~$18/ft2/year which sounds pretty good), or at least for a while. It's just out of convenience range for a lot of TU students since they've become a residential campus, but very convenient for midtowners in a spot that's sort of out of sight for most right now, especially considering there's no exit to it or visibility from the BA. Maybe the Mother Road Market will "activate" that area. Years ago it was rumored these lots were owned by LTFF and were slated to become the Mother Road Market and a mixed use development. Apparently they have reduced it to just retail/commercial which is a shame because residential would add a nice component to the area and help diversify to keep it feasible. A multi-story building would be a lot better use of the space.

Overall this is good news for Renaissance residents. Awesome to see the stretches around Renaissance go from pretty bleak and unused to what is planned now. 

To answer my own question from last year, since this project is now confirmed to not be part of LTFF, My guess is that the "Mixed Use" development they had in the works will be on the empty lot on the NW corner of 11th and Lewis. That would be an ideal spot for a large 4-5 story mixed use building. I think that might be the grand goal of all of this for all the players working on this, from the Fuel 66 Food Truck park, to the Mother Road Market and now this... It's setting the stage for a big increase in demand for urban style residential in the area rather than just duplexes and houses.

I like the design and the use of brick.  It looks like it will be a mirror image of the Mother Road Market across the street.

"Mixed use" seems like the new "sustainable" - a phrase that has come to mean nothing but gives people the warm fuzzies.  I'm not sure 2nd floor apartments that close to Lewis would be desirable.  Even with it down to 2 lanes, that stretch of Lewis carries a lot of traffic.  Moreover, if a second floor was added for residential or commercial, wouldn't that require more parking than can fit on this lot? 

Quote from: TheArtist on February 27, 2019, 09:09:51 AM
My first thought was "How is this 5 million dollars?" Seems awfully high unless the land was pretty expensive and or it includes the restaurant build out etc.  Usually a strip mall type development is one of the cheapest means of building. I would have thought 2.5 mill would be expensive, but 5, egads.

You're right that it should cost closer to $2.5 million. I'm guessing the article is wrong or that there's a 2nd floor not described in the plans.

For $5 mil, there is no way they could even afford to pay the mortgage at the rents they are charging ($18/sf/yr) unless it was heavily and I mean heavily subsidized by someone like LKFF (which it stated publicly that this isn't connected to them). They'd need around $33 just to break even.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1115-1121-S-Lewis-Ave-Tulsa-OK/4345689/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1115-1121-S-Lewis-Ave-Tulsa-OK/4345689/)

I'm guessing the original plan was for 2 stories and they went with a more realistic single story (which could be due to parking as others mentioned) but the developer that gave the scoop to the World accidentally gave the original proposed budget.


Hats off to them though: They just officially announced and are already not only moving dirt, but pouring foundations. This is still far better than a typical retail strip and goes into an area that needs all the momentum it can get. Fingers crossed that the building will be built with the ability to add a 2nd floor in case they can add more office or kitchen space, or even a rooftop patio add on.

Looking forward to seeing the eventual plans for the SW and NW corners of 11th & Lewis.  That is owned by LTFF and from what I've heard they want the development there to be truly "mixed-use".  Eventually the Advance Auto Parts at the SE corner could be redeveloped and then you really would have a mini-District in itself along 11th.  Lots of opportunity to continue this further east toward TU and create a "Campus Corner" type setting.

Quote from: SXSW on February 28, 2019, 08:08:47 PM
Looking forward to seeing the eventual plans for the SW and NW corners of 11th & Lewis.  That is owned by LTFF and from what I've heard they want the development there to be truly "mixed-use".  Eventually the Advance Auto Parts at the SE corner could be redeveloped and then you really would have a mini-District in itself along 11th.  Lots of opportunity to continue this further east toward TU and create a "Campus Corner" type setting.

That would be really cool for TU students and the surrounding neighborhoods. It has been a long time coming and still ways to go, but nice to see the gears moving to transform Lewis and 11th around here. The ultimate goal of those communities, the Pearl/Whittier-Districts, city leaders like Kathy Taylor has been to promote growth and safe neighborhoods in that area to link TU to downtown.

Imagine that stretch with lots of mixed use housing (Like at 6th and Lewis, where TU is starting on the next big phase) and all renovated homes along those stretches. That'll help make Tulsa a very competitive and much more urbanized place to live. No need to kick anyone out. Just fix places up and get them looking nice and residents often follow suit, especially with some help as they've done NE of 11th and Lewis, repainting most of those houses.

Development planned for the SW corner of 11th & Lewis adjacent to Mother Road Market.  This has been rumored for awhile.  
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/b8/0b81f331-00e0-58e6-ba76-2e8c3af889ab/5d03b7686a31b.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675)

I've heard they (Lobeck-Taylor) also want to redevelop the site to the north (NW corner of 11th & Lewis) into more a mixed-use development with residential. 

Is the Union Pacific/BNSF line in that area still used? If not it would be so cool to see that corridor converted to commuter rail. The NW corner of 11th and Lewis would make a great location for a station.

Quote from: ELG4America on June 14, 2019, 02:23:49 PM
Is the Union Pacific/BNSF line in that area still used? If not it would be so cool to see that corridor converted to commuter rail. The NW corner of 11th and Lewis would make a great location for a station.

Are you talking about the rail line crossing Lewis and 11th? It is still used. It is pretty bad spot to cross such a busy couple of roads as it causes delays around rush hour pretty regularly.

That would be cool to have commuter rail or some sort of reliable transportation. The BART line will at least stop at this intersection and be an easy ride to downtown. This area will be some of the best for living without a car.

Quote from: SXSW on June 14, 2019, 12:39:18 PM
Development planned for the SW corner of 11th & Lewis adjacent to Mother Road Market.  This has been rumored for awhile.  
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/b8/0b81f331-00e0-58e6-ba76-2e8c3af889ab/5d03b7686a31b.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675)

I've heard they (Lobeck-Taylor) also want to redevelop the site to the north (NW corner of 11th & Lewis) into more a mixed-use development with residential. 

Here's a linke to article in TW:
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-to-build-retail-complex-to-complement/article_207cbae6-94a7-5372-a27f-1e9afd1ef2af.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-to-build-retail-complex-to-complement/article_207cbae6-94a7-5372-a27f-1e9afd1ef2af.html)

Quote from: ELG4America on June 14, 2019, 02:23:49 PM
Is the Union Pacific/BNSF line in that area still used? If not it would be so cool to see that corridor converted to commuter rail. The NW corner of 11th and Lewis would make a great location for a station.

Any future commuter rail on that corridor would likely have a stop here.  We're basically building a transit-oriented development without the transit.   :)

It will have the 11th BRT though. 

Quote from: SXSW on June 15, 2019, 10:06:26 AM
Any future commuter rail on that corridor would likely have a stop here.  We're basically building a transit-oriented development without the transit.   :)

It will have the 11th BRT though. 

Does anyone know if the railroad right of way is wide enough to double track? 

I know that would be expensive but it could be an option.

Quote from: Red Arrow on June 15, 2019, 11:44:36 AM
Does anyone know if the railroad right of way is wide enough to double track? 

I know that would be expensive but it could be an option.

It doesn't look like it.  I think you would have to either share the ROW with the freight line or rebuild the highway.  When Denver built it's SE light rail extension in the mid-2000's they built a rail ROW as part of the highway expansion.  It runs on the side of the highway and goes below-grade where the highway goes below-grade, which allows stations to be placed next to parking garages.  If you had the light rail down the center how would you access the stations?

Quote from: SXSW on June 16, 2019, 03:26:32 PM
It doesn't look like it.  I think you would have to either share the ROW with the freight line or rebuild the highway.  When Denver built it's SE light rail extension in the mid-2000's they built a rail ROW as part of the highway expansion.  It runs on the side of the highway and goes below-grade where the highway goes below-grade, which allows stations to be placed next to parking garages.  If you had the light rail down the center how would you access the stations?

When I compared it to the double track trolley from where I grew up, the freight line here looks as wide or wider in most spots than the trolley line.  I was thinking of move the freight line to one side and put light rail on the other, not light rail down the center.  The trolley line was built in the early 1900s.  Right of way regulations are probably tougher now.

https://goo.gl/maps/GDPMfrU9M72eNTNz5

(https://wcipeg.com/problem/images/pipe/pipe.png)

Light rail along this corridor is part of the long-range transportation plan.  All it will take is a city leader to advance it as part of a future transportation bond and/or tax package. 

Quote from: SXSW on June 17, 2019, 11:29:06 AM
Light rail along this corridor is part of the long-range transportation plan.  All it will take is a city leader to advance it as part of a future transportation bond and/or tax package. 

Where can one find this long-range transportation plan?

Quote from: Red Arrow on June 16, 2019, 06:20:27 PM
When I compared it to the double track trolley from where I grew up, the freight line here looks as wide or wider in most spots than the trolley line.  I was thinking of move the freight line to one side and put light rail on the other, not light rail down the center.  The trolley line was built in the early 1900s.  Right of way regulations are probably tougher now.

https://goo.gl/maps/GDPMfrU9M72eNTNz5

An elevated train above the Broken Arrow Expressway/UP-BNSF Line would allow us to use existing right of way on an already developed corridor (avoiding nimbys.)

3 Downtown stops, BOK Center (End of line - near Elwood) Union Station (main downtown station)  McNellies/OneOK Field (Small stop near Greenwood,) 1 Pearl District stop (near 6th and Utica.) Then stops at the major intersections with Lewis, 21st, Yale, Sheridan, 41st and Memorial, 71st/Kenosha (near Rhema,) and a large Downtown BA Station near the Performing Arts Center for the end of line. That's 10 stops along a ~14 mile route.

Cost: Estimate $100mil/mile (high end of the $15-$100mil average cost per mile in the US) plus an average of $25mil per station comes to a project cost of $1.65 billion. For cost comparison the I-40 relocation project in OKC had a final budget of $557 million for 5 miles (not sure whether they finished at, above or below budget) Tulsa Vision 2025 raised $662 Million between 2003 and 2015.

Benefit: Create mass transit "spine" through the most densely populated section of the metro. Feeder bus and trolley routes could extend the reach deep into nearby neighborhoods. Would encourage medium and high density walkable development in numerous neighborhoods. With an average end to end speed including stops of 30 MPH service would take 28 minutes (this is 10 - 1 minute stops plus average speed of 46.66 MPH on the track.) Express trains running Union Station to BA Main with no stops could travel as fast as 55 mph average or about 15 minutes station to station. I believe 6 trains would equate to roughly 1 train each direction at every station every 15 minutes plus an express running each direction about once every 30-45 minutes. Increases in land value near stations plus reductions in recurring road maintenance could offset or significantly defray construction cost over a 30-50 year life. In such a scenario fares need only cover operating cost and recurring maintenance.

Quote from: Oil Capital on June 17, 2019, 11:53:06 AM
Where can one find this long-range transportation plan?

http://www.incog.org/Transportation/FastForward/Final_Report_10-13-2011.pdf (http://www.incog.org/Transportation/FastForward/Final_Report_10-13-2011.pdf)

Quote from: SXSW on June 17, 2019, 02:56:03 PM
http://www.incog.org/Transportation/FastForward/Final_Report_10-13-2011.pdf (http://www.incog.org/Transportation/FastForward/Final_Report_10-13-2011.pdf)

Wow, has it really been almost 8 years since FastForward?  I attended a couple of the presentations.

Quote from: SXSW on June 17, 2019, 02:56:03 PM
http://www.incog.org/Transportation/FastForward/Final_Report_10-13-2011.pdf (http://www.incog.org/Transportation/FastForward/Final_Report_10-13-2011.pdf)

Thank you.   But I don't find anything in there about Light Rail on the 11th Street corridor.  It shows Historic Street Car running on the 11th Street Corridor from Peoria to Harvard.

Quote from: Red Arrow on June 16, 2019, 06:20:27 PM
When I compared it to the double track trolley from where I grew up, the freight line here looks as wide or wider in most spots than the trolley line.  I was thinking of move the freight line to one side and put light rail on the other, not light rail down the center.  The trolley line was built in the early 1900s.  Right of way regulations are probably tougher now.
https://goo.gl/maps/GDPMfrU9M72eNTNz5

What if it were a really short side-track, just long enough for commuter cars?  The at-grade crossings on 11th and Lewis would remain the same.

https://goo.gl/maps/kKa5LETQREraNH326

Quote from: Oil Capital on June 17, 2019, 05:18:45 PM
Thank you.   But I don't find anything in there about Light Rail on the 11th Street corridor.  It shows Historic Street Car running on the 11th Street Corridor from Peoria to Harvard.

Correct, the most recent posts have been about 11th & Lewis being a transit-oriented development around a future rail station.  11th Street will be getting BRT after Peoria.

Quote from: SXSW on June 17, 2019, 07:31:40 PM
Correct, the most recent posts have been about 11th & Lewis being a transit-oriented development around a future rail station.  11th Street will be getting BRT after Peoria.

So, when you said "Light rail along this corridor is part of the long-range transportation plan" . . . ?

Quote from: Oil Capital on June 17, 2019, 09:48:24 PM
So, when you said "Light rail along this corridor is part of the long-range transportation plan" . . . ?

The existing rail corridor that runs from downtown Tulsa to Broken Arrow

Quote from: SXSW on June 17, 2019, 10:00:36 PM
The existing rail corridor that runs from downtown Tulsa to Broken Arrow

For the record, there is no light rail planned for that corridor either.

Quote from: Oil Capital on June 18, 2019, 09:13:40 AM
For the record, there is no light rail planned for that corridor either.

Envisioned but no, not planned.

Light rail would be awesome, but very expensive initial setup. As ELG4America, so are streets, but for some reason our society can't fathom spending that much money on something that isn't a highway.

Maybe the best public transportation option we have will be self-driving electric vehicles. Whenever that becomes an option, city leaders need to be on the forefront of bringing those here (as do citizens). Imagine having a fleet of self-driving and self-recharging vehicles that are available on demand any time of day. That should bring transportation costs down so that those who have no vehicle can have a safe reliable (and should be more affordable) way to get around. Driverless cars could further save by having users schedule ahead of time so that an electric van/bus could pickup multiple people headed the same way. Uber has had car-share/carpool option in some cities for years (but not typically worth the savings vs time lost). You take out the top cost of that service (the driver) and it becomes more economically feasible.

It's not a perfect solution, but it would be a massive step towards a less-car-centric society. However, self-driving cars could also have a reverse effect of making people not care about living towards the center because you don't have to do the driving, you can just nap or watch videos during the commute. But I think that long-term, the cost of transportation will still play enough of a factor to keep living close to downtown desirable. If carbon credits become a thing, it will be a massive boost for urban and carless living (and sadly, that might be the best solution the government can come up with to reduce climate change - as increasing taxes are the gov't fix-all).

Made an account to get in on this conversation (a quality rail system in Tulsa is my ultimate pipe dream)

>Maybe the best public transportation option we have will be self-driving electric vehicles.

I could've sworn that was in discussion before the Gathering Place was open, I remember talk of self driving vehicles with a consistent route between Philbrook and the park.

Quote from: 918superboy on June 19, 2019, 10:49:14 AM
Made an account to get in on this conversation (a quality rail system in Tulsa is my ultimate pipe dream)

>Maybe the best public transportation option we have will be self-driving electric vehicles.

I could've sworn that was in discussion before the Gathering Place was open, I remember talk of self driving vehicles with a consistent route between Philbrook and the park.

I had forgotten about that^ plan but now that you say it I do remember them talking about small autonomous vehicles that would make a short loop.

The INCOG report that SXSW posted has some pretty interesting details. I noted on page 55 that only 36% of respondents in a large survey agreed with the statement "We shouldn't invest in public transportation because we need to spend resources on higher priorities." Seems to indicate that a far more aggressive mass transit push would be greeted favorably by a majority of the public. Page 114 shows the cost estimates for various modes of transportation in Tulsa. Specifically note the $15-30 million estimate for commuter rail on existing track (excluding right of way costs.) That would suggest we could get the downtown to BA line up and running for between $225 million and $450 million. If the line spurred development similar to the last 10 years of development in the [Brady] Arts District we could expect $1-2 Billion in private investment over roughly 10 years.

Bringing things back around to 11th street. I believe that high quality transit is the key to this becoming a major development corridor. The problem is that TU was built too far (2 miles) from Downtown for it to be an easy walk and develop residences and retail in between. If it were closer we would have seen organic development similar to (for example) Fayetteville, AR. While 11th St. does not currently have overwhelming traffic if all development in this area remains car dependent the corridor either will not develop significantly or will be choked by traffic increases.

I don't think the distance of TU from downtown is a big issue.  If anything it provides an eastern anchor for development along the corridor.  I'd love to see more of the mixed-use developments popping up around 11th & Lewis move eastward past Delaware.  Maybe TU could even partner with private developers to build a more pedestrian-friendly streetscape from Delaware to Harvard.

Quote from: ELG4America on June 20, 2019, 10:36:43 AM


Bringing things back around to 11th street. I believe that high quality transit is the key to this becoming a major development corridor. The problem is that TU was built too far (2 miles) from Downtown for it to be an easy walk and develop residences and retail in between. If it were closer we would have seen organic development similar to (for example) Fayetteville, AR. While 11th St. does not currently have overwhelming traffic if all development in this area remains car dependent the corridor either will not develop significantly or will be choked by traffic increases.

I don't think TU has enough students to make an impact even remotely close to what UA and its 27,000 students do to the small town of Fayetteville.

I remember going to a place across from TU after schools started back up and I asked if they had a big boost from school being back in session and they not only hadn't noticed any uptick, they had forgotten TU was even back in session. There's just so few students compared to the population of the Tulsa area. TU students do go to the food places along there (especially QT), but other than that they tend to stick to the campus.

You need far more students to effectively alter a city so that that companies can start building developments to cater to students. You can't with 4,000 seasonal students, of which 80% live on campus (So a market of about 800 students who might need housing in a city of 400,000 compared to 6,000 or so in Fayetteville city of 86,000). TU students do already patronize the downtown living options pretty well as they have done over the years. It's still a small blip compared to everyone else.

Based on the impending university apocalypse, I don't see OSU Tulsa giving downtown much of a boost either. Tulsa just has to develop on its own with little to no help from the state government or universities. It's basically up to GKFF and the corporations already working and building there.

Quote from: 918superboy on June 19, 2019, 10:49:14 AM
Made an account to get in on this conversation (a quality rail system in Tulsa is my ultimate pipe dream)

>Maybe the best public transportation option we have will be self-driving electric vehicles.

I could've sworn that was in discussion before the Gathering Place was open, I remember talk of self driving vehicles with a consistent route between Philbrook and the park.

Welcome to the board!

I hope they fulfill that option with self-driving shuttles between parking lots and other prime spots. It'll probably be a big expense up front, with charging stations and the initial offerings of new tech always being priced so high. However, the cities that jump on it early will reap big rewards.

With easily rentable/hail-able bicycles, scooters, self-driving cabs/shuttles/buses, it could finally make mass transit a realistic option for most people. Bus routes will still need to be expanded and cabs will probably remain a premium option, but still a big boost from where we are now.

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 24, 2019, 01:56:34 PM
Based on the impending university apocalypse, I don't see OSU Tulsa giving downtown much of a boost either. Tulsa just has to develop on its own with little to no help from the state government or universities. It's basically up to GKFF and the corporations already working and building there.

I still have hope for OSU-Tulsa.  Even with the issues they have with the undergraduate course monopoly at TCC and Langston it still could serve as the primary graduate and research center for the OSU system.  They sit in an enviable position next to one of the fastest growing urban districts in the region.  I feel like OSU (and to an extent OU) are the final missing pieces that city and philanthropic leaders like GKFF need to target to really grow the Tulsa area.  Quality of life improvements have been a huge focus, rightfully so, but now it's up to companies expanding their workforce and that ties back to providing qualified employees.  The local universities are the logical next step in that equation.

Quote from: SXSW on June 24, 2019, 03:58:24 PM
I still have hope for OSU-Tulsa.  Even with the issues they have with the undergraduate course monopoly at TCC and Langston it still could serve as the primary graduate and research center for the OSU system.  They sit in an enviable position next to one of the fastest growing urban districts in the region.  I feel like OSU (and to an extent OU) are the final missing pieces that city and philanthropic leaders like GKFF need to target to really grow the Tulsa area.  Quality of life improvements have been a huge focus, rightfully so, but now it's up to companies expanding their workforce and that ties back to providing qualified employees.  The local universities are the logical next step in that equation.

One thing I've been thinking about recently is the possible correlation between Oklahoma's 'brain drain' and the locations of our major universities. Across the country places where graduates want to be after they graduate are also the places where they chose to attend college in the first place. Places like Austin, TX (UT) Nashville, TN (Vanderbilt) or Washington DC (Georgetown, Howard, etc.) are chosen as their college destination both for the excellent university as well as the prospect of an exciting city for life after college. When a student chooses OU or OSU, I'm not convinced they are making the same calculation. With no aspersions intended toward Norman and Stillwater, they are not super exciting vibrant cities with enormous potential for vast numbers of graduates to stay long term. Perhaps one of Oklahoma's greatest mistakes was not siting its premier Universities in its premier city. I know this will come off as Tulsa-is-the-greatest-ism but the locations that were chosen are pretty mystifying in hindsight.

The question the arises, what do we do to fix it? My answer is that we have to address the undergraduate degree granting issues. OU and OSU Tulsa need to be allowed to have full degree programs in Tulsa. It is ludicrous at this point. Second the city needs to orient itself to be and enjoyable place to be a student and a young adult. Much of that is already happening and likely won't proceed further without an influx of students. Third we need to work to provide housing that is desirable and affordable in the districts young people want to live, like the 11th St area that is the subject of this thread.

Quote from: 918superboy on June 19, 2019, 10:49:14 AM
Made an account to get in on this conversation (a quality rail system in Tulsa is my ultimate pipe dream)

>Maybe the best public transportation option we have will be self-driving electric vehicles.

I could've sworn that was in discussion before the Gathering Place was open, I remember talk of self driving vehicles with a consistent route between Philbrook and the park.

Greetings and salivations!   Welcome to the board!

Enjoy!

I like the IUPUI model but we already lost that chance by having OSU and OU with campuses several miles apart. Plus the acronym would be weird. IUPUI is known as "OO-EE-POO-EE.".  How would one pronounce OUOSUT?  "WEE-WEE-SUT?

What would make sense to me is a merger between OSU-Tulsa and TCC (at least the downtown campus). Build some housing on both ends. Freshman and sophomore classes housed at TCC (south campus), junior senior and graduate programs at OSU-Tulsa (north or Greenwood campus). Build some housing at both ends. Shuttle busses between campuses (or dare I dream a streetcar?) with emphasis on walking/biking/scooting because it's no much more than a mile.

Quote from: ELG4America on June 24, 2019, 05:46:06 PM
One thing I've been thinking about recently is the possible correlation between Oklahoma's 'brain drain' and the locations of our major universities. Across the country places where graduates want to be after they graduate are also the places where they chose to attend college in the first place. Places like Austin, TX (UT) Nashville, TN (Vanderbilt) or Washington DC (Georgetown, Howard, etc.) are chosen as their college destination both for the excellent university as well as the prospect of an exciting city for life after college. When a student chooses OU or OSU, I'm not convinced they are making the same calculation. With no aspersions intended toward Norman and Stillwater, they are not super exciting vibrant cities with enormous potential for vast numbers of graduates to stay long term. Perhaps one of Oklahoma's greatest mistakes was not siting its premier Universities in its premier city. I know this will come off as Tulsa-is-the-greatest-ism but the locations that were chosen are pretty mystifying in hindsight.

The question the arises, what do we do to fix it? My answer is that we have to address the undergraduate degree granting issues. OU and OSU Tulsa need to be allowed to have full degree programs in Tulsa. It is ludicrous at this point. Second the city needs to orient itself to be and enjoyable place to be a student and a young adult. Much of that is already happening and likely won't proceed further without an influx of students. Third we need to work to provide housing that is desirable and affordable in the districts young people want to live, like the 11th St area that is the subject of this thread.

You're spot on with this, students don't pick OSU or OU to stay in Stillwater or Norman. OU has a bit of an advantage in that it's not a far leap to move north to OKC after school but Stillwater is an hour-ish away from OKC and Tulsa.

To the other common talking points everyone focuses on is undergraduate programs in Tulsa due to the various political BS over the years. However, if you look at the demographics, Tulsa doesn't have a problem with attracting people with bachelor degrees. Where Tulsa has a particular problem demographic wise and why we fail to compete in gaining traction for relocating company's is advanced degrees (master's, etc.). We should focus 100% of our focus on building up OSU, OU in Tulsa for grow graduate programs. Where a large portion of brain drain happens is when people decide to go for advanced degrees, they typically work or are doing research at the same time and flock to larger cities like Austin, Nashville, San Fran, DC, Boston, etc.

The role TCC plays and it's ability to transfer credits really give's Tulsa a 4-year type of ability, it's just more fragmented. If we wanted to create the atmosphere of a 4-year undergrad campus, then sell the TCC Metro Campus and build a few TCC buildings on the OSU campus, and a few on the OU campus and bam - 4 year university set up and you're creating better synergy by combining all levels of undergraduate students but allowing the current administrative set up to still exist instead of trying to fight it. TCC students go to class in the TCC buildings on those campuses and when they transfer they're still essentially on the same campus. This would make student housing more desirable to build and increase student density on these campus' which would facility better private development around them.

OSU and OU frankly aren't living up to their potential in terms of advanced education programs compared to other universities - just use Oregon as an example with how many graduate students there are between UO, OSU, and Portland State & University. They do a great job at pulling students up from California like we can from Texas and down from Washington and Oregon has a similar population size to Oklahoma. The ability to pull in people seeking education is what helped create the Portland of today and why it's so desirable for many.

The most educated cities are the one's thriving, and the mid-size cities that have lots of advanced degree options (Nashville, Austin, Columbus, Denver, Portland, etc.) have been the one's to see booming population growth because companies have flocked to these cities for talent. Tulsa's key to ever breaking out of our current mold is to facility growth in OU, OSU, TU, etc. in advanced degrees that aren't currently being offered in Tulsa and are huge money makers currently in Stillwater, Norman like undergrad programs are and that would have considerably less political fight and resistance than continuing to fight over why we don't have a full four-year undergrad campus - which is really not as big of an impediment to job growth in Tulsa as many think. Our lack of advanced degree options and population with them has been.     

Quote from: DowntownDan on August 08, 2019, 10:33:06 AM
I like the IUPUI model but we already lost that chance by having OSU and OU with campuses several miles apart. Plus the acronym would be weird. IUPUI is known as "OO-EE-POO-EE.".  How would one pronounce OUOSUT?  "WEE-WEE-SUT?

What would make sense to me is a merger between OSU-Tulsa and TCC (at least the downtown campus). Build some housing on both ends. Freshman and sophomore classes housed at TCC (south campus), junior senior and graduate programs at OSU-Tulsa (north or Greenwood campus). Build some housing at both ends. Shuttle busses between campuses (or dare I dream a streetcar?) with emphasis on walking/biking/scooting because it's no much more than a mile.

That is the most logical solution and I've been pushing this notion for 30+ years.  The Board of Regents will never allow this to happen, which is very unfortunate.  Tulsa is one of the largest metro areas in the country without a major public four-plus year university.

To further the point someone else was making about destination cities when people choose a school is looking at the great medical community in Albuquerque where we've got the UNM med school.  I don't personally care for ABQ but a lot of students choose to stay there or scatter into nearby areas because of the lifestyle and close proximity to all sorts of outdoor adventure.

Quote from: LandArchPoke on August 08, 2019, 12:21:12 PM

OSU and OU frankly aren't living up to their potential in terms of advanced education programs compared to other universities - just use Oregon as an example with how many graduate students there are between UO, OSU, and Portland State & University. They do a great job at pulling students up from California like we can from Texas and down from Washington and Oregon has a similar population size to Oklahoma. The ability to pull in people seeking education is what helped create the Portland of today and why it's so desirable for many.

The most educated cities are the one's thriving, and the mid-size cities that have lots of advanced degree options (Nashville, Austin, Columbus, Denver, Portland, etc.) have been the one's to see booming population growth because companies have flocked to these cities for talent. Tulsa's key to ever breaking out of our current mold is to facility growth in OU, OSU, TU, etc. in advanced degrees that aren't currently being offered in Tulsa and are huge money makers currently in Stillwater, Norman like undergrad programs are and that would have considerably less political fight and resistance than continuing to fight over why we don't have a full four-year undergrad campus - which is really not as big of an impediment to job growth in Tulsa as many think. Our lack of advanced degree options and population with them has been.      

Oregon has a draw all right - not sure I understand it, but one of the kids went there after OSU for MS degree several years ago.  Launched her career like a rocket!   Til then, had been piddling around with the typical O & G circle of employers in the OK/TX/NM/CO areas.  Now, has been to several different companies, couple different coasts, several industries, latest is putting her into VP position mid next year.  

I started the 'push' of pressure a couple years ago for the next new manufacturing plant they build away from Palo Alto.  Can't hurt to try.  But I heard exactly the same thing I have heard from a dozen or more other people - "Nobody wants to come to Tulsa as a destination..."   From a kid born and raised here!  She understands...   For conventions, conferences, high level executive meetings, etc.   Would be great for us - foot in the door of high end biomedical equipment world.  

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-announces-four-tenants-for-shops-at-mother-road-market

QuoteIn Spring 2020, customers will be able to shop at these new exciting concepts (alphabetical order):

Eleanor's Bookshop, owned by Kelsey and Matt McAfee: Founded by two Tulsa teachers, Eleanor's Bookshop is a children's and young adult bookstore with a mission to foster a lifelong love of reading in young people. To learn more, visit www.eleanorsbookshop.com, and follow on Instagram/Facebook at @eleanorsbookshop.

Felizsta, owned by Jason and Lizette Corcoran: Felizsta is a new expression from the two words "Feliz" and "Fiesta" translating into "Happy Party!" Felizsta is a modern, sophisticated, fun shop that celebrates Latin American food, design and culture; with an emphasis on authentic Mexican cookies. Felizsta is also a graduate of the Kitchen 66 Launch Program, another program of LTFF. To learn more, visit www.felizsta.com, and follow on Instagram/Facebook @felizsta.  

Graham Collective, owned by Dalton and Makaela Graham: Graham Collective is a local wellness and lifestyle shop that focuses on affordable clean beauty, organic skincare, and nontoxic living. To learn more, visit www.grahamcollectivetulsa.com, and follow on Instagram at @graham_collective and Facebook at @grahamcollective.

Oklahoma Distilling Co. | Cocktail Co., owned by Hunter Stone Gambill: Tulsa's premier bartending supply store and bottle shop with a tasting bar featuring independent spirits and wine from boutique producers. Staffed by mixologists and sommeliers, Cocktail Co. will offer fun, educational events, as well as assistance in selecting the right libations for any occasion. To learn more, visit www.okdistilling.com and follow on Instagram at @cocktailco and Facebook at @cocktailcotulsa.

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/59653c9ef7e0ab450708da5c/1572532426062-UQL7SW99VQPB7YWNHZ40/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kEWYf2FsS2cPO8fKb3ynG5tZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZamWLI2zvYWH8K3-s_4yszcp2ryTI0HqTOaaUohrI8PIXkH9MO3hVnXFxVw94kQvFLNKOVN3KfcjO2s7ZPCwuGgKMshLAGzx4R3EDFOm1kBS/Shops+at+Mother+Road+Market?format=2500w)

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/59653c9ef7e0ab450708da5c/1560440721770-C779APJQV8ZOVX3ENWXT/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kFJqRZaYTi76lFe_ueP8TDEUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYxCRW4BPu10St3TBAUQYVKcgJQx82ABouG8VXGcEaOv8WlA92u7Sh9ltWdRF9uKPvpDn2RZtDysSRWyJFMv44f-/Shops_at_MRM-8.jpg)

Is it just me, or is that image potato?

Quote from: BKDotCom on November 01, 2019, 08:58:56 PM
Is it just me, or is that image potato?

It looks fine to me.

Quote from: brettakins on November 01, 2019, 01:53:39 PM
https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-announces-four-tenants-for-shops-at-mother-road-market

Did Mother Road Market boot Sooner Tamale Company because their logo has a cartoon character making the "OK" hand sign?

In a statement on the Kitchen 66 Facebook page, Kitchen 66 wrote that the program was "made aware of one of our kitchen members making comments that do not align with our core values. As we have discussed (www.kitchen66tulsa.com/equity), our commitment to antiracism is unwavering. We do not tolerate discrimination of any kind in our workspaces or beyond, and we stand, and act, against racism. The Sooner Tamale Company will no longer be a part of the Kitchen 66 program."
https://www.krmg.com/news/local/tulsa-tamale-business-forced-out-kitchen-66-after-facebook-flap/7GXQJ7NHMJC3ZENH5N2ICPKEX4/

Quote from: patric on August 14, 2020, 10:53:02 AM
Did Mother Road Market boot Sooner Tamale Company because their logo has a cartoon character making the "OK" hand sign?

In a statement on the Kitchen 66 Facebook page, Kitchen 66 wrote that the program was "made aware of one of our kitchen members making comments that do not align with our core values. As we have discussed (www.kitchen66tulsa.com/equity), our commitment to antiracism is unwavering. We do not tolerate discrimination of any kind in our workspaces or beyond, and we stand, and act, against racism. The Sooner Tamale Company will no longer be a part of the Kitchen 66 program."
https://www.krmg.com/news/local/tulsa-tamale-business-forced-out-kitchen-66-after-facebook-flap/7GXQJ7NHMJC3ZENH5N2ICPKEX4/

Yes, the okay hand gesture is now a form of white supremacist  hate speech.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764728163/the-ok-hand-gesture-is-now-listed-as-a-symbol-of-hate (https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764728163/the-ok-hand-gesture-is-now-listed-as-a-symbol-of-hate)

Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 14, 2020, 11:09:48 AM
Yes, the okay hand gesture is now a form of white supremacist  hate speech.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764728163/the-ok-hand-gesture-is-now-listed-as-a-symbol-of-hate (https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764728163/the-ok-hand-gesture-is-now-listed-as-a-symbol-of-hate)

The whole "okay sign is white supremacy" is literally derived from an internet meme making fun of idiots who claim the most trivial things, such as emojis, are racist. Now dumb-donkey media outlets have slowly picked up on it and claimed it to be racist, so even more idiots now think white supremacists actually use the okay symbol.

Hugely ironic that a meme to make fun of these people has actually convinced them it's a white supremacist symbol. Not sure if it's funny or depressing.

Quote from: Rattle Trap on August 14, 2020, 03:09:02 PM
The whole "okay sign is white supremacy" is literally derived from an internet meme making fun of idiots who claim the most trivial things, such as emojis, are racist. Now dumb-donkey media outlets have slowly picked up on it and claimed it to be racist, so even more idiots now think white supremacists actually use the okay symbol.

Hugely ironic that a meme to make fun of these people has actually convinced them it's a white supremacist symbol. Not sure if it's funny or depressing.

Even a joke can turn into something literal. I'm not here to debate that though and trying to make it about that as the reason they kicked him out is gaslighting the situation. Kitchen66 is a non-profit, run by the Taylor Foundation and others. Look at the dude's conduct online and how he spoke to people and acted. He was/is a complete a**hole. Generally, when you're working in common area spaces these are not the types of people who thrive and conductive to creating great environments for others. I would imagine he was given a last warning of sorts and this last hissy fit online resulted in it being time to part ways.

Quote from: LandArchPoke on August 14, 2020, 03:35:01 PM
Even a joke can turn into something literal. I'm not here to debate that though and trying to make it about that as the reason they kicked him out is gaslighting the situation. Kitchen66 is a non-profit, run by the Taylor Foundation and others. Look at the dude's conduct online and how he spoke to people and acted. He was/is a complete a**hole. Generally, when you're working in common area spaces these are not the types of people who thrive and conductive to creating great environments for others. I would imagine he was given a last warning of sorts and this last hissy fit online resulted in it being time to part ways.

Has something like this happened more than once? Or was this a the first time? I can't seem to find any other stories about the business other than how they got their start. If he has conducted himself this way before and was warned about it, then it would seem justifiable.

To be honest, I'd hate to be a business owner these days. You can get attacked and raked over the coals on social media and if you don't do it right in trying to defend yourself and your business, you can get crucified and not just on social media.

Quote from: Rattle Trap on August 14, 2020, 03:09:02 PM
The whole "okay sign is white supremacy" is literally derived from an internet meme making fun of idiots who claim the most trivial things, such as emojis, are racist. Now dumb-donkey media outlets have slowly picked up on it and claimed it to be racist, so even more idiots now think white supremacists actually use the okay symbol.

Hugely ironic that a meme to make fun of these people has actually convinced them it's a white supremacist symbol. Not sure if it's funny or depressing.

I find it depressing. When a fictional joke becomes a mainstream fact and the ADL outlaws it without fact checking, you are one step close to censorship.

The "perfect" hand sign as a White Supremacy signal comes from the 3 Percenters racist anti-government militia group, usually with three fingers turned down or sideways, the three fingers for "three".

Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 14, 2020, 04:22:01 PM
Has something like this happened more than once? Or was this a the first time? I can't seem to find any other stories about the business other than how they got their start. If he has conducted himself this way before and was warned about it, then it would seem justifiable.

To be honest, I'd hate to be a business owner these days. You can get attacked and raked over the coals on social media and if you don't do it right in trying to defend yourself and your business, you can get crucified and not just on social media.

They didn't get the boot for the okay hand sign.. they got the boot it for being complete asshats.  Someone questioned why their tamales were $20 / dozen and they went off on a rant about "liberal cancel culture bs" atc.   Perhaps they should have simply said they're 1/2lb tamales made with high-quality ingredients.   

Quote from: BKDotCom on August 14, 2020, 04:48:59 PM
They didn't get the boot for the okay hand sign.. they got the boot it for being complete asshats.  Someone questioned why their tamales were $20 / dozen and they went off on a rant about "liberal cancel culture bs" atc.   Perhaps they should have simply said they're 1/2lb tamales made with high-quality ingredients.   

You are probably right, but the kitchen cited a different reason in their public announcement:

"Our commitment to antiracism is unwavering. We do not tolerate discrimination of any kind in our workspaces or beyond, and we stand, and act, against racism."

and KRMG tied it to the cartoon character in the sombrero making the gesture.  As for the origin of the hoax to asociate the OK symbol to white supremacy:

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/114482325/   NSFW

Quote from: patric on August 14, 2020, 07:35:15 PM
You are probably right, but the kitchen cited a different reason in their public announcement:

"Our commitment to antiracism is unwavering. We do not tolerate discrimination of any kind in our workspaces or beyond, and we stand, and act, against racism."

and KRMG tied it to the cartoon character in the sombrero making the gesture.  As for the origin of the hoax to asociate the OK symbol to white supremacy:

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/114482325/   NSFW

He also made comments about how his tamales aren't made in your basement and don't contain "dog hair and cockroaches like yours". It was more about who he made those remarks to that were interpreted as racist. Hints their statement. It was after this that people started looking at their logo and it looked to be a pattern of a racist white dude, that maybe the logo was making that sign for a reason.

They did not kick him out for the logo. It was entirely for the commentary he has made to people that was deemed as inappropriate and borderline racist. As a nonprofit, Kitchen66 likely didn't feel like it was worth keeping them around. There's plenty of other people who would gladly take their spot that aren't going to be a public relations nightmare.

I've read the back and forth comments, and yes they're definitely inappropriate, I just can't make the leap to racism. Any basement can have dog hair, cockroaches, rat crap etc in them regardless of who you are.

Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 16, 2020, 02:44:52 PM
I've read the back and forth comments, and yes they're definitely inappropriate, I just can't make the leap to racism. Any basement can have dog hair, cockroaches, rat crap etc in them regardless of who you are.

I can. It's not a leap. The replies were to a person with the last name of 'Martinez' and they're implying since he has a Latino name he's dirty and is probably chopping up the neighborhood dogs for the "meat" but don't worry - us white folks can do it right since we're not savages. They wouldn't have said that if Jim Smith had asked about prices. The logo is not only a really bad amateurish design but also massively tone-deaf. Best to avoid minefields in business as best as one can and possible racist hand-signs and stereotypical giant sombreros and giant mustaches are just asking for a push-back.

Quote from: tulsabug on August 16, 2020, 07:55:20 PM
I can. It's not a leap. The replies were to a person with the last name of 'Martinez' and they're implying since he has a Latino name he's dirty and is probably chopping up the neighborhood dogs for the "meat" but don't worry - us white folks can do it right since we're not savages. They wouldn't have said that if Jim Smith had asked about prices. The logo is not only a really bad amateurish design but also massively tone-deaf. Best to avoid minefields in business as best as one can and possible racist hand-signs and stereotypical giant sombreros and giant mustaches are just asking for a push-back.

Agreed. It's also not the only a**hole moment from this guy either. If you say boo to him he accuses you of liberal cancel culture and to leave his small business alone, seems to have some major anger issues. As I had mentioned earlier, this wasn't his first instance and this one just happened to come off racist to many people and blew up online. Kitchen 66 doesn't have to let people who violate their ethics codes (which can include just being a jerk and unprofessional, even if you don't think what he said was racist). They had to agree to these terms to use the facility, and thus the facility can terminate their agreement to use the facility if they deem it worthy. Regardless of wether you can prove it was with an intent of being racist or not.

I think many people seem to think that freedom of speech means you can say whatever offensive thing you want and people are just supposed to take it. You can say whatever you want, but does not mean you are free from the repercussions of your speech. Which can mean a range of things from losing customers as a business, slander if you make something up and publicize it, etc. I don't get how people don't understand this concept. Most American's are entitled though and the stupid one's don't understand how laws/agreements work and go "but the constitution says freedom of speech!!!"

I have a deep respect and understanding of freedom of speech both as a personal right and in journalism. Most of it I learned when taking journalism in high school 40+ years ago. One of the best teachers I ever had, earned her Masters in Journalism and English from TU, and both she and her husband worked for the Tulsa World and other Tulsa media outlets.

https://ninde.com/tribute/details/1078/Marilee-Chambers/obituary.html (https://ninde.com/tribute/details/1078/Marilee-Chambers/obituary.html)

Quote from: LandArchPoke on August 16, 2020, 11:06:13 PM
Agreed. It's also not the only a**hole moment from this guy either. If you say boo to him he accuses you of liberal cancel culture and to leave his small business alone, seems to have some major anger issues. As I had mentioned earlier, this wasn't his first instance and this one just happened to come off racist to many people and blew up online. Kitchen 66 doesn't have to let people who violate their ethics codes (which can include just being a jerk and unprofessional, even if you don't think what he said was racist). They had to agree to these terms to use the facility, and thus the facility can terminate their agreement to use the facility if they deem it worthy. Regardless of wether you can prove it was with an intent of being racist or not.

I think many people seem to think that freedom of speech means you can say whatever offensive thing you want and people are just supposed to take it. You can say whatever you want, but does not mean you are free from the repercussions of your speech. Which can mean a range of things from losing customers as a business, slander if you make something up and publicize it, etc. I don't get how people don't understand this concept. Most American's are entitled though and the stupid one's don't understand how laws/agreements work and go "but the constitution says freedom of speech!!!"

The important thing many people forget about our constitutionally protected freedoms is they are protection from the Federal government making laws infringing on said rights - it does not mean a business or a landlord or whoever has to allow it. This is why guitar stores can prohibit you from playing "Stairway to Heaven" and it's totally legal.

The other thing is many people have a misunderstanding of what being a racist is. It doesn't necessarily mean you're heading to cross-burning with a bunch of guys in pointy white hoods. It also doesn't mean it's intentional. I think with these two it's not necessarily intentional only because they're incredible un-self-aware. As a business owner it's always best to stop, step back, count to 10, and look at your potential response to an issue with a calm head and empathy. This should be a learning experience for these two to reexamine who they are and become a better version of themselves because of it. That being said, reading the whole back and forth really was just like watching an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm - they just kept getting more and more tone deaf and the ending of "I have Latino relatives" just made me wince.

From Mother Road Market's Facebook page.  So glad to see this corner redeveloped, wish we could get some trees along the streetscape but that can hopefully come later and involve a more comprehesive streetscape/pedestrian improvements along Lewis from 13th up to 1st and all along 11th between Peoria and Harvard.

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/118651229_2647053575545225_9170350057700247418_n.png?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=kEcHk5VWGPwAX9H45k-&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=36eac8cf36903c63a0b9d46b122b9929&oe=5F76E7F2)

The 11th & Lewis Mixed-use development is supposed to break ground in Q1 or Q2 2021. Financing is in place I believe so it's a matter of getting construction docs and permits ready.

251 units, rents will range from low $1,100 per month for the smallest one bedroom to over $2,500 per month for the largest two bedroom units and three bedroom units. Rooftop deck for the apartment complex facing downtown. 2 story Route 66 Museum on the corner of Lewis & 11th still similar size that was mentioned prior. 

Architecture firm: https://www.hcm2.com/studios/housing-mixed-use/

Not sure if these are the renderings that have been posted but I think these more closely resemble what is planned to be built and looks like the courtyard area is going to be more open to the street which is a good thing versus some of the other renderings I've seen where it's more closed off.

(https://i.ibb.co/s3jMVzc/Route66-1.png"%20alt="Route66-1"%20border="0"></a>)

(https://i.ibb.co/8Bzpv8X/Route66-2.png"%20alt="Route66-2"%20border="0"></a>)

Absolute game changer for this part of town.  This area along with the stretch of 11th between Peoria and Utica have seen a lot of positive changes.  Hopefully the "gaps" in between them are next between Utica and the tracks, and also the stretch next to TU.

I give it a B-   

1. Having the museum on the corner, while great to have the museum, will create a dead zone there.  As designed, and that could change, only once in a blue moon would anyone be standing out in front of it there, otherwise "boring looking dead zone with no pedestrians". Especially with the lot of trees and grass behind it going up Lewis.  But if they want any potential retail corridor to end in this area and keep it quiet and residential, that will work.

2. I get the covered area will be great for "showing cars, festivals, etc." but the majority/rest of the time it again "pushes the lively pedestrian streetscape" further back from the sidewalk. Giving up one thing, for another.  Will have to see how it plays out in real life.  If they are able to bring any new development on the opposite side of the street up to the sidewalk, that might help, but even there, I wouldn't put my retail business there as the risk is the street will often feel too quiet and thus not as attractive as say the core of Brookside or Cherry Street. 

It's a good development in a way, but not good if the intent is to create a lively pedestrian corridor up and down Lewis "fail" up and down 11th, "ok-ish".

Quote from: LandArchPoke on December 21, 2020, 05:57:54 PM
The 11th & Lewis Mixed-use development is supposed to break ground in Q1 or Q2 2021. Financing is in place I believe so it's a matter of getting construction docs and permits ready.

251 units, rents will range from low $1,100 per month for the smallest one bedroom to over $2,500 per month for the largest two bedroom units and three bedroom units. Rooftop deck for the apartment complex facing downtown. 2 story Route 66 Museum on the corner of Lewis & 11th still similar size that was mentioned prior. 

Architecture firm: https://www.hcm2.com/studios/housing-mixed-use/

Not sure if these are the renderings that have been posted but I think these more closely resemble what is planned to be built and looks like the courtyard area is going to be more open to the street which is a good thing versus some of the other renderings I've seen where it's more closed off.

(https://i.ibb.co/s3jMVzc/Route66-1.png"%20alt="Route66-1"%20border="0"></a>)

(https://i.ibb.co/8Bzpv8X/Route66-2.png"%20alt="Route66-2"%20border="0"></a>)

Where did you find the renderings--is that public yet? 

Quote from: TheArtist on December 22, 2020, 10:41:09 AM
I give it a B-   
It's a good development in a way, but not good if the intent is to create a lively pedestrian corridor up and down Lewis "fail" up and down 11th, "ok-ish".

In fairness, the museum is celebrating a highway....

Does this mean the Route 66 Museum originally planned for SW Blvd & Riverside won't be happening?  I personally liked that concept and location next to the Avery Bridge.  I wonder what happens to that site now?

Quote from: SXSW on December 22, 2020, 11:50:29 PM
Does this mean the Route 66 Museum originally planned for SW Blvd & Riverside won't be happening?  I personally liked that concept and location next to the Avery Bridge.  I wonder what happens to that site now?

Though I have great respect for the folks wanting the museum on Riverside, I do think that having one here is better.  I no longer have a shop in the Mother Road Market, but this will be great for all those local shops and restaurants in the area. Spending money to build a museum on SW Blvd & Riverside would benefit no one really. There is only so much money out there to do these things and you know people like me who are pushing to build something great, to grow our dreams and make the city better.... would really appreciate the money being spent in ways that can have synergies with what we are working on as well. 

Been keeping tabs on what other areas along Route 66 are planning, including some pretty impressive resort type developments.  The competition is going to be tough.

What places are people going to drive past and point.
What places will people stop, get out of their cars, take a quick photo and then leave to make it to their hotel destination? (you can only do so much in a day)
What places will people decide to stay for several hours or even stay the night?
What places will people decide to stay for a few days?


The last 2 are what I would like to see Tulsa aim for.   If we spread things out too much and don't have one or two great stops where people can stay for several hours (see some sights, shop, eat, see some more sights) then we will continue to be the first two.

And we need to think about this in terms of competing sites up and down Route 66 that will be saying (Stay here! we have all of this!)

Santa Fe is a great example of a place along Route 66 where you can stay the night and spend a day or even two, seeing lots of sights, shopping and dining in their downtown and arts district which you can take in entirely on foot once you get to your hotel.

Quote from: SXSW on December 22, 2020, 11:50:29 PM
Does this mean the Route 66 Museum originally planned for SW Blvd & Riverside won't be happening?  I personally liked that concept and location next to the Avery Bridge.  I wonder what happens to that site now?

To date the level of private fund raising necessary to augment the Vision 2025 necessary for that concept has not been successful.

Quote from: Vision 2025 on December 23, 2020, 10:34:12 AM
To date the level of private fund raising necessary to augment the Vision 2025 necessary for that concept has not been successful.

I guess I wonder what happens to that site if the museum goes in at 11th & Lewis?  It's a great site for...something other than an empty lot at the western gateway to downtown.

Heard this week that the mixed-use development at 11th & Lewis is moving through the city approvals process and should start construction this fall. 

Also Wildflower Cafe is now open in the old Corner Cafe spot at 11th & Peoria.

The city really needs to come up with a master plan for redoing 11th Street from downtown to at least Yale as all this new infill is really going to up the traffic level. At the very least lower the bike lanes from 2 to 1 and integrate that into the sidewalk and with a physical curb to separate it from the street - then add a consistent suicide lane to Yale or Sheridan. The bike lanes are a confusing mess for motorists (based on the number of cars I see using them as turning lanes or just, y'know, lanes), not really being used my bicyclists, and have really caused a lot of backed up traffic. I'm all for a bike lane and I'm all for the new development (my wife and I have had a business on 11th since 97) - but this half-assed approach to the street is silly. This is Route 66 - the street IS the attraction and it should be presented in a much better way, both functionally and aesthetically.

Separated bike lanes like this would be much better and much safer for bikers and motorists.
(https://azmag.gov/portals/0/Images/AT/Separated-bike-lane-with-curb-median-street-buffer.jpg)

Completely agree on the 11th St streetscape from downtown to Yale.  A rebuild of the sidewalks, better integration of the bike lanes and the future BRT stops and more street trees.  It's great to see this corridor getting some attention now the city needs to step up with some improvements.

Quote from: SXSW on May 21, 2021, 11:31:48 AM
Completely agree on the 11th St streetscape from downtown to Yale.  A rebuild of the sidewalks, better integration of the bike lanes and the future BRT stops and more street trees.  It's great to see this corridor getting some attention now the city needs to step up with some improvements.

Maybe even real, steel wheel on steel track, electric powered trolleys on 11th instead of the BRT.

Quote from: SXSW on May 19, 2021, 03:30:06 PM
Heard this week that the mixed-use development at 11th & Lewis is moving through the city approvals process and should start construction this fall. 

Also Wildflower Cafe is now open in the old Corner Cafe spot at 11th & Peoria.

I'm like 90% sure the Route 66 museum has been cut out of this project too - anyone else heard anything similar? The newer rendering look amazing though, if they actually build it to what it looks like now it will be one of the nicest apartment projects in Tulsa design wise. Will make most of the ARG projects in downtown look like cheap ****.

Quote from: tulsabug on May 21, 2021, 06:18:02 AM
The city really needs to come up with a master plan for redoing 11th Street from downtown to at least Yale as all this new infill is really going to up the traffic level. At the very least lower the bike lanes from 2 to 1 and integrate that into the sidewalk and with a physical curb to separate it from the street - then add a consistent suicide lane to Yale or Sheridan. The bike lanes are a confusing mess for motorists (based on the number of cars I see using them as turning lanes or just, y'know, lanes), not really being used my bicyclists, and have really caused a lot of backed up traffic. I'm all for a bike lane and I'm all for the new development (my wife and I have had a business on 11th since 97) - but this half-assed approach to the street is silly. This is Route 66 - the street IS the attraction and it should be presented in a much better way, both functionally and aesthetically.

Separated bike lanes like this would be much better and much safer for bikers and motorists.

The above project will start a 'masterplan' for streetscape along 11th Street. Similar to what was done with Guthrie Green, where it set streetscaping standards for the Arts District and as projects were completed they adopted those standards. Unfortunately I don't think it will be done in large portions anytime soon.

The road diet that was done was critical to the area though and is at least slowing traffic down. Even if some idiots don't understand that the bike lines are not parking or loading areas. It's far far better than what was there. You don't build or make bike lines with the assumption that right away there will be thousands of bikers. They are slowing building around a vast network around the core that in years down the road will actually make the city more livable and offer people who live in these areas alternatives to driving. Cities like Portland didn't become a bike city overnight, they built out the infrastructure for it and people adopted that lifestyle because they had the option to do so. The same hopefully will happen here when they've been able to do more road diets. Slowing cars done is actually vital to making businesses along this corridor more successful. Having a car drive 25 mph by your building is 20x better than 40mph, it increases visibility and makes the area seem safer and 'busier' which are beneficial to retail businesses.

Maybe something as simple as large planters could help a lot and be a temporary fix especially for the part between Hillcrest and Peoria until better streetscaping can be done. Here's an example of planters used: https://www.universitycity.org/streetscapeimprovements

That was the biggest failure of the Cherry Street rebuild is there were not permanent planter beds or vegetation added anywhere - just adding flowers and native grasses that are low maintenance in the bump out areas would have made a huge difference in making the street feel a lot better. This would be easy to implement on 11th Street now in just planter boxes for example in many areas that could be made permanent down the road. 
 

^ Planter boxes would be easy to add along the new Cherry Street streetscape. 

The above development, plus the big mixed use development on the NE corner of 11th and Lewis, will dramatically change the area.

Quote from: LandArchPoke on May 23, 2021, 02:45:40 PM
I'm like 90% sure the Route 66 museum has been cut out of this project too - anyone else heard anything similar? The newer rendering look amazing though, if they actually build it to what it looks like now it will be one of the nicest apartment projects in Tulsa design wise. Will make most of the ARG projects in downtown look like cheap ****.

The above project will start a 'masterplan' for streetscape along 11th Street. Similar to what was done with Guthrie Green, where it set streetscaping standards for the Arts District and as projects were completed they adopted those standards. Unfortunately I don't think it will be done in large portions anytime soon.

The road diet that was done was critical to the area though and is at least slowing traffic down. Even if some idiots don't understand that the bike lines are not parking or loading areas. It's far far better than what was there. You don't build or make bike lines with the assumption that right away there will be thousands of bikers. They are slowing building around a vast network around the core that in years down the road will actually make the city more livable and offer people who live in these areas alternatives to driving. Cities like Portland didn't become a bike city overnight, they built out the infrastructure for it and people adopted that lifestyle because they had the option to do so. The same hopefully will happen here when they've been able to do more road diets. Slowing cars done is actually vital to making businesses along this corridor more successful. Having a car drive 25 mph by your building is 20x better than 40mph, it increases visibility and makes the area seem safer and 'busier' which are beneficial to retail businesses.

Maybe something as simple as large planters could help a lot and be a temporary fix especially for the part between Hillcrest and Peoria until better streetscaping can be done. Here's an example of planters used: https://www.universitycity.org/streetscapeimprovements

That was the biggest failure of the Cherry Street rebuild is there were not permanent planter beds or vegetation added anywhere - just adding flowers and native grasses that are low maintenance in the bump out areas would have made a huge difference in making the street feel a lot better. This would be easy to implement on 11th Street now in just planter boxes for example in many areas that could be made permanent down the road. 
 

Are there renderings newer than the ones posted above? If so, where might I find them?

Quote from: LandArchPoke on May 23, 2021, 02:45:40 PM
The road diet that was done was critical to the area though and is at least slowing traffic down. Even if some idiots don't understand that the bike lines are not parking or loading areas. It's far far better than what was there. You don't build or make bike lines with the assumption that right away there will be thousands of bikers. They are slowing building around a vast network around the core that in years down the road will actually make the city more livable and offer people who live in these areas alternatives to driving. Cities like Portland didn't become a bike city overnight, they built out the infrastructure for it and people adopted that lifestyle because they had the option to do so. The same hopefully will happen here when they've been able to do more road diets. Slowing cars done is actually vital to making businesses along this corridor more successful. Having a car drive 25 mph by your building is 20x better than 40mph, it increases visibility and makes the area seem safer and 'busier' which are beneficial to retail businesses. 

There is a big difference between slowing traffic down and traffic congestion which increases pollution and drives people away from an area. And that being said what 11th is now is people speeding from one backup at an intersection to another - I see that all day until rush hour hits where it then turns into silly backups at most intersections. 11th is used by a lot of downtown workers to get to 244 I assume to avoid the IDL downtown so when they all head home the Yale intersection turns into a cluster. We're three blocks down from 11th and Yale and every weekday the traffic will backup sometimes six blocks down from the intersection. Because of there not being a right-hand turning lane at the intersection any longer people have a choice of waiting and waiting and waiting or avoiding the light by turning down Winston and hitting Yale from 12th. This is causing undue traffic in the neighborhoods where there are a lot of people who like to walk, and since there are no sidewalks they now get to avoid an increase of cars in the street.

I'm all for the road diet on 11th but just painting some lines and saying "ta-da - we have bike lanes" is not the right way to do it and other cities, like Portland and New York have figured this out. You are not going to make Tulsa into a bicycling Mecca unless you make the bike lanes safe and what the city has wasted money on so far is the exact opposite - it's almost designed to fail. I mean, I really don't expect any less from the city but it just seems like the bike lanes they put in were nothing more than lip-service to the road diet crowd to shut them up.

As far as cars slowing down being beneficial to business - I totally agree BUT without easy access to a business (ie - a turning lane) you aren't going to get great results. And why not lower the speed limit on the street? Seems like a no-brainer and one they did on 15th.

Again, I'm on your side on this but I don't think it was done right, isn't going to get the desired results because of that, and has created new problems that aren't being addressed.

Quote from: TheArtist on May 24, 2021, 09:40:47 AM
The above development, plus the big mixed use development on the NE corner of 11th and Lewis, will dramatically change the area.

Ooh, what development is this?  Do tell.  I have not heard anything about any development on the northeast side of the intersection. 

Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on May 24, 2021, 05:12:02 PM
Ooh, what development is this?  Do tell.  I have not heard anything about any development on the northeast side of the intersection. 

I'm interested in this too.  That would be quite the transformation for this area and a catalyst for further infill toward TU and filling in the gaps between Utica and Lewis

Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on May 24, 2021, 05:12:02 PM
Ooh, what development is this?  Do tell.  I have not heard anything about any development on the northeast side of the intersection. 

The old Hawk Dairy has been bought by Ferguson Property Group. Same developer that will be doing the Lobeck Taylor apartment complex across Lewis.

The historic dairy will be retail/restaurant on first floor with apartments above. There will be new construction attached to the north and east of the dairy building. Total will be 85 market-rate apartments. Supposed to start in late fall of this year and take 12 months. I haven't yet seen renderings but hearing good things.

The car lot on the corner of the intersection and Perry's meat market remain in private hands. The owners will not sell. So Ferguson is moving forward without them.

Quote from: Tulsan on May 24, 2021, 08:00:37 PM
The car lot on the corner of the intersection and Perry's meat market remain in private hands. The owners will not sell. So Ferguson is moving forward without them.

It would be a shame if Perry's Meat Market went away for apartments.  It's a bit far for me at 111th S and Memorial but I occasionally get to their other location at 81st & Sheridan.

Quote from: Red Arrow on May 24, 2021, 08:29:23 PM
It would be a shame if Perry's Meat Market went away for apartments.  It's a bit far for me at 111th S and Memorial but I occasionally get to their other location at 81st & Sheridan.

I think they would have gotten favorable rent in the new retail space... but I understand not wanting to move.  (Have you been to this location recently? It's ... not high end.) I was more surprised the KC Motorsports lot owners didn't sell, but apparently they get decent income from the current operation. Still, you'd think if the price was right they'd sell. Price must not have been right.

Quote from: Tulsan on May 24, 2021, 08:52:44 PM
I think they would have gotten favorable rent in the new retail space... but I understand not wanting to move.  (Have you been to this location recently? It's ... not high end.) I was more surprised the KC Motorsports lot owners didn't sell, but apparently they get decent income from the current operation. Still, you'd think if the price was right they'd sell. Price must not have been right.

No, I have not been there recently.

How do you post photos/renderings here?

Quote from: Tulsan on May 24, 2021, 08:52:44 PM
I think they would have gotten favorable rent in the new retail space... but I understand not wanting to move.  (Have you been to this location recently? It's ... not high end.) I was more surprised the KC Motorsports lot owners didn't sell, but apparently they get decent income from the current operation. Still, you'd think if the price was right they'd sell. Price must not have been right.

Likely waiting until they redevelop the Hawk Dairy and build the apartments across the street then can get a lot more $$$.  This could be a cool spot for a beer garden if someone wanted to repurpose the building and do something like what Elliot Nelson has done at 1st & Elgin with the trees and outdoor seating.

Then you just need Lobeck Taylor or someone else to redevelop Advance Auto Parts on the SE corner which would tie into their retail development directly to the south.  Critical mass in an area that 5 years ago was a desolate wasteland.

Quote from: Urban Enthusiast on May 24, 2021, 05:12:02 PM
Ooh, what development is this?  Do tell.  I have not heard anything about any development on the northeast side of the intersection. 

Sorry I deleted the email that had the renderings lol.  If I recall correctly it looked like there were one or two 5 story buildings to the east of the Hawk Dairy building along 11th street, and one to the north on Lewis.  Possible retail on the ground floor and living above.

Quote from: DowntownDan on May 24, 2021, 10:15:56 AM
Are there renderings newer than the ones posted above? If so, where might I find them?

None that I can share right now - I haven't seen the newer ones floating around anywhere else yet. It looks nice though, more brick and has more of a loft style look. It looks a lot like this project in Dallas: https://www.noveldeepellum.com/gallery

Quote from: tulsabug on May 24, 2021, 10:43:22 AM
There is a big difference between slowing traffic down and traffic congestion which increases pollution and drives people away from an area. And that being said what 11th is now is people speeding from one backup at an intersection to another - I see that all day until rush hour hits where it then turns into silly backups at most intersections. 11th is used by a lot of downtown workers to get to 244 I assume to avoid the IDL downtown so when they all head home the Yale intersection turns into a cluster. We're three blocks down from 11th and Yale and every weekday the traffic will backup sometimes six blocks down from the intersection. Because of there not being a right-hand turning lane at the intersection any longer people have a choice of waiting and waiting and waiting or avoiding the light by turning down Winston and hitting Yale from 12th. This is causing undue traffic in the neighborhoods where there are a lot of people who like to walk, and since there are no sidewalks they now get to avoid an increase of cars in the street.

I'm all for the road diet on 11th but just painting some lines and saying "ta-da - we have bike lanes" is not the right way to do it and other cities, like Portland and New York have figured this out. You are not going to make Tulsa into a bicycling Mecca unless you make the bike lanes safe and what the city has wasted money on so far is the exact opposite - it's almost designed to fail. I mean, I really don't expect any less from the city but it just seems like the bike lanes they put in were nothing more than lip-service to the road diet crowd to shut them up.

As far as cars slowing down being beneficial to business - I totally agree BUT without easy access to a business (ie - a turning lane) you aren't going to get great results. And why not lower the speed limit on the street? Seems like a no-brainer and one they did on 15th.

Again, I'm on your side on this but I don't think it was done right, isn't going to get the desired results because of that, and has created new problems that aren't being addressed.

Frankly I've never seen a single example of where congestion drives people away. If that was the case Austin (especially areas like SoCo, Rainey Street, 6th, etc.) NYC, DC, LA, etc. would be vast wastelands by now. Every successful commercial corridor has congestion, it's just the reality of it. When a commercial area has no traffic congestion, it's usually a very bad sign. I'm also not sure why anyone would use 11th street to get out of downtown to avoid I-244, there is zero congestion on 244 out of downtown or on the streets downtown to get to 244 via Cincinnati or Detroit. Maybe you are seeing the effects of people leaving Hillcrest and other businesses?

Now, I agree the road diets completed need to be upgraded eventually. Something as simple as planter boxes that help separate the bike lanes and make them safer could be easy fixes but would likely have to be done by the businesses along the corridor themselves at the moment. The city doesn't have a lot of money to play with right now for upgrading the bike lanes to full separation yet. It will likely have to wait for the next bond issue for them to set aside money to make some of these road diets more permanent and safer. What they've done so far is still 100x better than having it stay as a 4 lane road that was unnecessary for the amount of traffic 11th and others handle. We can't design cities around the fact that someone might have to wait 1 or 2 cycles of a light at a particular intersection during rush hour. That's what we've done before and that's one of the reasons why many of these urban corridors died, we made it too easy for people to blow right past businesses which in turn creates an unpleasant environment for people. The unnecessary fear of 'congestion' and building roads in the urban core to 'fix' that problems ends up resulting in businesses moving to the suburbs anyways because when you design the urban core to make it easy to escape everyone eventually will and has. Adding turn lanes at specific intersections might be needed at some point but in general they are a complete waste of space outside of being on signaled intersections. That space would be better used for on street parking or expanded sidewalks. 

The problem with speed limit reductions is people don't pay attention to them and they drive as fast as the road allows them to feel safe - Cherry Street tried that too and failed a long time ago. Narrower roads make people drive slower, bigger lanes make people think it's a freeway - Cherry Street really started to change when they added more parking and narrowed the lanes just with paint years ago and that was when traffic began to slow down and it became less dangerous. Then finally years and years later it moved along to the recent improvements which are more permeant. Brookside is another good example, traffic moves much slower between 33rd to 35th than between 41st and 36th - has nothing to do with anything other than the width of the lanes - they shrink dramatically and people don't feel like they can drive 40 mph anymore and that's a good thing for that particular area.

Just keep in mind that the road diets being done are mostly in a temporary format, most of the planning documents state for various improvements to be made but it's better to start doing it then just leave it however it was, and then work to make incremental improvements with better barriers, landscaping, etc. down the line as funding is available. Portland and NYC started much of their bike infrastructure the same way Tulsa is doing now, with just some paint. They are decades ahead of us and now in general when they expand biking infrastructure it's usually not just paint it's full on separated lanes, etc. and they have gone back and improved corridors that were temporary to begin with to improve them. Someday Tulsa will get there (hopefully) but everyone has to start somewhere. It is much easier to make a 'temporary' solution like repainting the street permanent than it is to take say the old format and go from it directly into permanent (this is well documented in planning circles too and why the city is taking this route - it creates far less NIMBY issues). This does actually allow the planning department to observe too what works and what might not before you invest the money into full upgrades to the corridors.

Quote from: tulsabug on May 24, 2021, 10:43:22 AM

I'm all for the road diet on 11th but just painting some lines and saying "ta-da - we have bike lanes" is not the right way to do it and other cities, like Portland and New York have figured this out. You are not going to make Tulsa into a bicycling Mecca unless you make the bike lanes safe and what the city has wasted money on so far is the exact opposite - it's almost designed to fail. I mean, I really don't expect any less from the city but it just seems like the bike lanes they put in were nothing more than lip-service to the road diet crowd to shut them up.

The 11th St. re-stripes were funded by INCOG as part of the GO plan. There's an 11th St. TIF that will fund new pedestrian improvements and its being prefunded by Lobeck Taylor. "Market District" sidewalk replacement/enhancement should be starting soon. In addition, the Improve Out Tulsa bonds are funding rebuild of 11th almost the entire street over the next few years.

My point is... there are a lot of resources lined up for Rte 66. There's a chance to really get it right.

Quote from: Tulsan on May 26, 2021, 10:35:13 AM
The 11th St. re-stripes were funded by INCOG as part of the GO plan. There's an 11th St. TIF that will fund new pedestrian improvements and its being prefunded by Lobeck Taylor. "Market District" sidewalk replacement/enhancement should be starting soon. In addition, the Improve Out Tulsa bonds are funding rebuild of 11th almost the entire street over the next few years.

My point is... there are a lot of resources lined up for Rte 66. There's a chance to really get it right.

I didn't realize Improve Our Tulsa had an 11th Street rebuild in it. Any idea if that will incorporate the new streetscaping plans being implemented by that TIF. My understanding was they would only be prefunding the portion around that intersection - any additional streetscaping would come as money is collected from the TIF, so it'd likely be several years down the road before any TIF money would be available to be spent along the rest of the corridor. It's really one of the more bizarre TIF's I've seen created. I'm not sure why they didn't just make the TIF capture area for the entire portion of the spending zone that was created which is usually how it's done.

Would make little sense for the Improve Our Tulsa funds to rebuild the street and just repaint everything then a few years later come back and redo it again with streetscaping. Hopefully they can figure out a way to get most of it done at the same time to make better efficiency of the funds.

Quote from: LandArchPoke on May 26, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
I didn't realize Improve Our Tulsa had an 11th Street rebuild in it. Any idea if that will incorporate the new streetscaping plans being implemented by that TIF. My understanding was they would only be prefunding the portion around that intersection - any additional streetscaping would come as money is collected from the TIF, so it'd likely be several years down the road before any TIF money would be available to be spent along the rest of the corridor. It's really one of the more bizarre TIF's I've seen created. I'm not sure why they didn't just make the TIF capture area for the entire portion of the spending zone that was created which is usually how it's done.

Would make little sense for the Improve Our Tulsa funds to rebuild the street and just repaint everything then a few years later come back and redo it again with streetscaping. Hopefully they can figure out a way to get most of it done at the same time to make better efficiency of the funds.

Yeah the Lewis-Harvard mile is slated for 2022 but they're so behind it'll be 2023. Utica to Lewis is like the year after that I think. I don't know about streetscape, but they'll certainly follow Complete Streets for this round and also re-do any curbs/sidewalks that don't meet ADA. Lobeck Taylor seems to have a good feel for how CoT functions (no surprise) so it's a decent bet that it'll be done right.

Quote from: Tulsan on May 26, 2021, 10:52:57 AM
Yeah the Lewis-Harvard mile is slated for 2022 but they're so behind it'll be 2023. Utica to Lewis is like the year after that I think. I don't know about streetscape, but they'll certainly follow Complete Streets for this round and also re-do any curbs/sidewalks that don't meet ADA. Lobeck Taylor seems to have a good feel for how CoT functions (no surprise) so it's a decent bet that it'll be done right.

Will they do Utica to Peoria last?  That's another emerging area that ties into other improvements being made along Peoria north of 15th to 3rd

Quote from: SXSW on May 26, 2021, 11:37:44 AM
Will they do Utica to Peoria last?  That's another emerging area that ties into other improvements being made along Peoria north of 15th to 3rd

The city just finished that stretch of the street last month. No streetscaping yet, although that will be funded through the TIF. Also the intersection at 11th & Peoria and Peoria from 1st all the way to 49th is on the docket to be rebuilt using bond funding and following the Complete Streets manual over the next several years.

Quote from: LandArchPoke on May 25, 2021, 03:03:04 PM
None that I can share right now - I haven't seen the newer ones floating around anywhere else yet. It looks nice though, more brick and has more of a loft style look. It looks a lot like this project in Dallas: https://www.noveldeepellum.com/gallery

Frankly I've never seen a single example of where congestion drives people away. If that was the case Austin (especially areas like SoCo, Rainey Street, 6th, etc.) NYC, DC, LA, etc. would be vast wastelands by now. Every successful commercial corridor has congestion, it's just the reality of it. When a commercial area has no traffic congestion, it's usually a very bad sign. I'm also not sure why anyone would use 11th street to get out of downtown to avoid I-244, there is zero congestion on 244 out of downtown or on the streets downtown to get to 244 via Cincinnati or Detroit. Maybe you are seeing the effects of people leaving Hillcrest and other businesses?

I think congested traffic does drive people away, at least those which don't like spending their lives sitting in traffic. My wife and I have a real aversion to hitting places when we know traffic or parking is going to be a nightmare. However we do have friends who really seem to enjoy going to the most congested places in town or wait in line at restaurants for an hour or so for a table so I guess to each their own.

Quote from: LandArchPoke
Now, I agree the road diets completed need to be upgraded eventually. Something as simple as planter boxes that help separate the bike lanes and make them safer could be easy fixes but would likely have to be done by the businesses along the corridor themselves at the moment. The city doesn't have a lot of money to play with right now for upgrading the bike lanes to full separation yet. It will likely have to wait for the next bond issue for them to set aside money to make some of these road diets more permanent and safer. What they've done so far is still 100x better than having it stay as a 4 lane road that was unnecessary for the amount of traffic 11th and others handle. We can't design cities around the fact that someone might have to wait 1 or 2 cycles of a light at a particular intersection during rush hour. That's what we've done before and that's one of the reasons why many of these urban corridors died, we made it too easy for people to blow right past businesses which in turn creates an unpleasant environment for people. The unnecessary fear of 'congestion' and building roads in the urban core to 'fix' that problems ends up resulting in businesses moving to the suburbs anyways because when you design the urban core to make it easy to escape everyone eventually will and has. Adding turn lanes at specific intersections might be needed at some point but in general they are a complete waste of space outside of being on signaled intersections. That space would be better used for on street parking or expanded sidewalks. 

And I agree - highways are what killed Route 66 and a good chunk of America in the first place. I just think the city could have made the road diet on 11th street safer and more effective by doing sidewalk - lane - turning lane - lane - curb - bike lane - sidewalk instead of just shoehorning in two very unsafe bike lanes. Would that have really cost that much more money? Maybe a simple letter to business and house owners along 11th street asking what they need out of the street instead of just throwing something out there that seems like it was done without any thought. As a side note, one long turning lane down 11th would be useful for the multiple ambulances that fly down the road every day at a high rate of speed (and the cops too who regularly push 70-80).

Quote from: LandArchPoke
The problem with speed limit reductions is people don't pay attention to them and they drive as fast as the road allows them to feel safe - Cherry Street tried that too and failed a long time ago. Narrower roads make people drive slower, bigger lanes make people think it's a freeway - Cherry Street really started to change when they added more parking and narrowed the lanes just with paint years ago and that was when traffic began to slow down and it became less dangerous. Then finally years and years later it moved along to the recent improvements which are more permeant. Brookside is another good example, traffic moves much slower between 33rd to 35th than between 41st and 36th - has nothing to do with anything other than the width of the lanes - they shrink dramatically and people don't feel like they can drive 40 mph anymore and that's a good thing for that particular area.

I agree - I just think it can't hurt to knock the speed limit down 5mph and add more speed limit signs on 11th since there are very few (but we did gain 5000 bike lane signs!). You don't need to get everyone to follow the speed limit when it's only a two lane road - just one car really and everyone behind them can just stew.

Quote from: LandArchPoke
Just keep in mind that the road diets being done are mostly in a temporary format, most of the planning documents state for various improvements to be made but it's better to start doing it then just leave it however it was, and then work to make incremental improvements with better barriers, landscaping, etc. down the line as funding is available. Portland and NYC started much of their bike infrastructure the same way Tulsa is doing now, with just some paint. They are decades ahead of us and now in general when they expand biking infrastructure it's usually not just paint it's full on separated lanes, etc. and they have gone back and improved corridors that were temporary to begin with to improve them. Someday Tulsa will get there (hopefully) but everyone has to start somewhere. It is much easier to make a 'temporary' solution like repainting the street permanent than it is to take say the old format and go from it directly into permanent (this is well documented in planning circles too and why the city is taking this route - it creates far less NIMBY issues). This does actually allow the planning department to observe too what works and what might not before you invest the money into full upgrades to the corridors.

Sure but do you think they needed to start all the way at the same square one that cities like Portland and New York have figured out doesn't work and just kills bicyclists? I think a semi-permanent separation like Jersey barriers would work fine - not permanent, probably already on-hand and cheap to buy if not. And it would only need to be on one side since there is no need for bike lanes on both sides of the road until bike traffic increases enough to need that. I'm also worried the city isn't going to revisit this, which is their usual MO. Heck - in some areas the new paint lines are already fading out since they were done on decomposing asphalt and on the drainage slope of the road.

Quote from: Tulsan on May 24, 2021, 08:00:37 PM
The old Hawk Dairy has been bought by Ferguson Property Group. Same developer that will be doing the Lobeck Taylor apartment complex across Lewis.

The historic dairy will be retail/restaurant on first floor with apartments above. There will be new construction attached to the north and east of the dairy building. Total will be 85 market-rate apartments. Supposed to start in late fall of this year and take 12 months. I haven't yet seen renderings but hearing good things.

The car lot on the corner of the intersection and Perry's meat market remain in private hands. The owners will not sell. So Ferguson is moving forward without them.

This is exciting! I'm so glad the Hawk Dairy is going to have a new lease on life! Would have been a great building for the Route 66 Museum but as long as it stays in existence I'm happy.

Market District streetscaping plan revealed. Should be nice, especially when the other corners get developed.

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/city-lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-unveils-significant-improvements-to-tulsa-market-district

77 Trees is the best news out of that article... wish they would've done that on Cherry St. Oh well!

Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on July 14, 2021, 02:46:43 PM
77 Trees is the best news out of that article... wish they would've done that on Cherry St. Oh well!

I think they should do something like this on Cherry Street - recently seen in Denver:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KoMjdBn4-MNaJbBLJN-UzwH3L1ayiwpDiwKxUsvnWqPQ7GwcaE_oq-8uct203fg7Eaag5oWMssu9L7TZ5WPeNL1ZhNpVspLwRoCXrN6aWqdwePog570WefzSuXfh6k8_EKf_0W224OUO7SzYluxa-4IEPlAdyGUwxC1AY4_a09nmWPiY2uUDu1r0ptAGFl7SrNL07vvS7qY6BEzJgVtBiFrXNHzyM9mseo2Q4zK0YvdzuBkS2mMRyTSxfcWXVmgKh8BnSpzBkbLe2no5PpBeW0EHG_3wlDiHvRyU4UPsdCAUjT-mh-cPyGvW5fzcMfGsDd_7DLxrF4vTLRIwBKJUEjhfSDJQQGzTC9pFfIMnLllKyhi6vhn-3_sOrzxcjE2j9se49nLuUeOzxL5a8PSF24pZBAjae87oJzXDPSKYzRkdm90wVHKqGn71ctUIAfxgX2f7EM5r3RIrgj4GFHGdYvzqWQJWUKYjcgWwnJE1FXUItxRcz61VnpqIT2wMw3Th29tk1xrEDroyriuOrEZEjbSDVIEantILJjG4We3K7T8LOVZcO3nvBVPgqSzqvTWgnBdtZcIWYAVE-T6spjhWMO_mD4NfB7driaKnejU6eJyWQJCjIfLoKrsomLobTCzioS74iGiluWbzA_2cxkBY2fB_QUTqjMUJGpMahh1zWY2VSyL6uIHE64zMo3Td11dlVwNb-ttRYnEsKSCdazfn4Us=w1292-h970-no?authuser=0)

Meh. Let me know if half those trees are still there in five years. Planters look nice in renderings, but rarely translate well in real life. They fall apart/don't get maintained, and are generally in the way of everything. Not that planters are bad or anything, and I welcome more trees, but I don't see anything radical here to get excited about. I think I'm most appreciative of the sewer and water lines that will be replaced.  ::)

Quote from: shavethewhales on July 14, 2021, 04:42:10 PM
Meh. Let me know if half those trees are still there in five years. Planters look nice in renderings, but rarely translate well in real life. They fall apart/don't get maintained, and are generally in the way of everything. Not that planters are bad or anything, and I welcome more trees, but I don't see anything radical here to get excited about. I think I'm most appreciative of the sewer and water lines that will be replaced.  ::)

The planters on 15th beside the Expo have been decently maintained enough over the years and still look nice. However, I'm a bit worried about all those trees hiding people crossing the street. In a perfect world they'd use the crosswalks but I'm sure they're going to instead hide near trees and then dart out in front of cars and with the amount of traffic in that area it's gonna be a bit dangerous.

Street trees are only really designed to live 5-15 years, so I think a bit of "they will be dead in 5 years" is a bit of people not understanding what they are there for. We recently worked with a city on a system of underground root chambers to increase that longevity, but they are expensive and then trees get bigger, which apparently is not what city maintenance people would want.

And as for congestion, I think the 71st street corridor proves that people will sit in their car and wait if the stores draw them there. It doesn't even require fancy stores and local restaurants. My MIL would wait in traffic for 30 minutes for DSW then wait for a table for 45 minutes to get to the cheesecake factory.

Quote from: Tulsan on May 24, 2021, 08:00:37 PM
The old Hawk Dairy has been bought by Ferguson Property Group. Same developer that will be doing the Lobeck Taylor apartment complex across Lewis.

The historic dairy will be retail/restaurant on first floor with apartments above. There will be new construction attached to the north and east of the dairy building. Total will be 85 market-rate apartments. Supposed to start in late fall of this year and take 12 months. I haven't yet seen renderings but hearing good things.

The car lot on the corner of the intersection and Perry's meat market remain in private hands. The owners will not sell. So Ferguson is moving forward without them.

Here's a rendering of the Hawk Dairy development - about 100 units.  They're starting soon.

(https://i.imgur.com/DRXOwEG.jpg)

Quote from: Tulsan on July 15, 2021, 09:56:50 PM
Here's a rendering of the Hawk Dairy development - about 100 units.  They're starting soon.

(https://i.imgur.com/DRXOwEG.jpg)

I grew up in Tulsa and never knew that was a dairy. I just remember as a store fixture sales business back in the 70's.

Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 15, 2021, 10:15:41 PM
I grew up in Tulsa and never knew that was a dairy. I just remember as a store fixture sales business back in the 70's.

Cool story I was told at a charity event partially sponsored by the Borden's incarnation of the downtown dairy that is closing.  It was around the time the Meadow Gold neon sign was moved from the current rooftop of a Mother Road Market building to its current perch at 11th & Peoria.  The Borden guys told me the story.  Hawk was the locally owned dairy in the 40s, 50s, etc. - I believe they had another building on the east side of the lot of the existing building which was taken down and is now a parking lot.  Ann's Bakery had a Hawk's ice cream freezer in its lobby until it closed.  So, back to the story ----  back in the day, the battle was on between Meadow Gold and Hawk for market supremacy.  It was a blood sport.  Meadow Gold was part of a big national company.  The upstairs  window of Mr. Hawk's office looked out over the intersection of 11th & Lewis.  To get under his skin, the corporate office at Meadow Gold rented the roof top of the building across the street and installed that massive landmark neon sign/clock.  So, every time Mr. Hawk looked out his window, he saw Meadow Gold flashing back at him.  I think of this story every time I drive by the Blue Bell plant in Broken Arrow and see the Braum's in front of it!   

This and the project at the NW corner of 11th & Lewis with the streetscape work will really transform this part of the city. 

Quote from: TulsaBeMore on July 16, 2021, 01:39:42 AM

So, every time Mr. Hawk looked out his window, he saw Meadow Gold flashing back at him.  I think of this story every time I drive by the Blue Bell plant in Broken Arrow and see the Braum's in front of it!   

That is probably the single biggest reason I don't buy Blue Bell products.  Management so inept and incompetent as to let something like that slip through does not need my business!   Well, that plus all the e coli stuff in past years....

https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-city-jumpstart-tulsa-market-district-improvements-along-route-66/article_a9a329d4-e3de-11eb-bc97-bfa56a63252c.html

Looks like more money is pouring in to 11th & Lewis from the Lobeck's. This is a good thing. Hoping that northwest corner can start turning dirt soon on SOMETHING. Last I heard it was going to be recommended as a new site for the Route 66 interactive museum. Anyone hearing more on this?

Pretty sure someone mentioned that the route 66 museum has been canceled.

That hawk dairy development looks fantastic. 100 units is a big boost to the area in addition to the other project. I had expected something much smaller. I guess developers see the gold rush finally. In ten years I expect there will be many of these types of developments between TU and downtown.

Quote from: bacjz00 on July 23, 2021, 11:29:03 AM
https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-city-jumpstart-tulsa-market-district-improvements-along-route-66/article_a9a329d4-e3de-11eb-bc97-bfa56a63252c.html

Looks like more money is pouring in to 11th & Lewis from the Lobeck's. This is a good thing. Hoping that northwest corner can start turning dirt soon on SOMETHING. Last I heard it was going to be recommended as a new site for the Route 66 interactive museum. Anyone hearing more on this?

It's a massive mixed-use development with apartments and retail

(https://i.ibb.co/s3jMVzc/Route66-1.png%22%20alt=%22Route66-1%22%20border=%220%22%3E%3C/a%3E)

Quote from: TulsaBeMore on July 16, 2021, 01:39:42 AM
Cool story I was told at a charity event partially sponsored by the Borden's incarnation of the downtown dairy that is closing.  It was around the time the Meadow Gold neon sign was moved from the current rooftop of a Mother Road Market building to its current perch at 11th & Peoria.  The Borden guys told me the story.  Hawk was the locally owned dairy in the 40s, 50s, etc. - I believe they had another building on the east side of the lot of the existing building which was taken down and is now a parking lot.  Ann's Bakery had a Hawk's ice cream freezer in its lobby until it closed.  So, back to the story ----  back in the day, the battle was on between Meadow Gold and Hawk for market supremacy.  It was a blood sport.  Meadow Gold was part of a big national company.  The upstairs  window of Mr. Hawk's office looked out over the intersection of 11th & Lewis.  To get under his skin, the corporate office at Meadow Gold rented the roof top of the building across the street and installed that massive landmark neon sign/clock.  So, every time Mr. Hawk looked out his window, he saw Meadow Gold flashing back at him.  I think of this story every time I drive by the Blue Bell plant in Broken Arrow and see the Braum's in front of it!   

Our neighbor owned the building that the Meadow Gold sign was on originally. When Chris Nikel was on 11th and Lewis they wanted to expand their lot across the street so they bought the building, let the sign be moved, tore the cool old original brick building down and then proceeded to move to Broken Arrow. In memoriam, here's the sign on it's original building that so pissed off Mr. Hawk  ;D

(https://digitalcollections.tulsalibrary.org/digital/api/singleitem/image/p15020coll1/10524/default.jpg)

Quote from: Tulsan on July 15, 2021, 09:56:50 PM
Here's a rendering of the Hawk Dairy development - about 100 units.  They're starting soon.

(https://i.imgur.com/DRXOwEG.jpg)

Can't wait for this! Ironically the rendering shows no bike lanes just as the city has decided to remove four miles of bike lanes on Pine. Hmmmmmmm.

Quote from: tulsabug on July 24, 2021, 08:16:35 AM
Can't wait for this! Ironically the rendering shows no bike lanes just as the city has decided to remove four miles of bike lanes on Pine. Hmmmmmmm.

Pine doesn't make as much sense for bike lanes.  11th, on the other hand, does so I doubt they're going anywhere.  As it builds up they'll be used more.

I could be wrong... but seems like things are starting to pop off a bit for Tulsa. So many cool projects in the work. If we could just land a big non O&G company we'd really be running.

Quote from: tulsabug on July 24, 2021, 08:16:35 AM
Can't wait for this! Ironically the rendering shows no bike lanes just as the city has decided to remove four miles of bike lanes on Pine. Hmmmmmmm.

Oddly enough, the bike lanes are only being removed at the intersection. Doesn't make any sense, I saw a few drawings that still have them east and west of the Lewis intersection but that it becomes a sharrow at the intersection. Not very safe. I'm glad the city has added bike lanes but they really are failing in the public outreach part. Having a turn lane the entire way is just dumb too, it'd be better if that space was used for on street parking and then a dedicated bike lane on the other side of the parking spaces.

I was trying to figure that out from the rendering of the intersection.  Odd they didn't show the mixed-use project at the NW corner unless they are waiting to unveil that closer to when it is supposed to break ground later this year.  Wish they could bury the power lines but I know the costs to do that are really high

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/6b/c6b8866e-e4f0-11eb-a61b-c7401c3d2690/60ef61a237792.image.jpg?resize=1920%2C1080)

Quote from: SXSW on July 25, 2021, 11:56:34 AM
I was trying to figure that out from the rendering of the intersection.  Odd they didn't show the mixed-use project at the NW corner unless they are waiting to unveil that closer to when it is supposed to break ground later this year.  Wish they could bury the power lines but I know the costs to do that are really high

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/6b/c6b8866e-e4f0-11eb-a61b-c7401c3d2690/60ef61a237792.image.jpg?resize=1920%2C1080)

Those trees are really going to hide the little businesses on the corner pretty badly. Maybe instead of all the trees some nice Oklahoma wildflowers would work better (and look better).

The trees won't be that large for awhile, and the more trees the better in a pedestrian environment IMO

Quote from: bacjz00 on July 23, 2021, 11:29:03 AM
https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/lobeck-taylor-family-foundation-city-jumpstart-tulsa-market-district-improvements-along-route-66/article_a9a329d4-e3de-11eb-bc97-bfa56a63252c.html

Looks like more money is pouring in to 11th & Lewis from the Lobeck's. This is a good thing. Hoping that northwest corner can start turning dirt soon on SOMETHING. Last I heard it was going to be recommended as a new site for the Route 66 interactive museum. Anyone hearing more on this?

I'm hearing there should be a groundbreaking for this mixed-use project in a couple weeks.  All apartments and ground floor retail, the Route 66 museum will be in another location. 

https://www.newson6.com/story/6194f94d1d84990bfb87044d/tulsa-city-leaders-to-announce-60-million-noma-development-project?fbclid=IwAR0p4zThdXMhi5owy-O-RMRnCjDBB6HAZKo0awasiqNBLQ0NonGvxzOqDB0 (https://www.newson6.com/story/6194f94d1d84990bfb87044d/tulsa-city-leaders-to-announce-60-million-noma-development-project?fbclid=IwAR0p4zThdXMhi5owy-O-RMRnCjDBB6HAZKo0awasiqNBLQ0NonGvxzOqDB0)




https://ktul.com/news/local/groundbreaking-for-new-development-on-route-66-in-tulsa (https://ktul.com/news/local/groundbreaking-for-new-development-on-route-66-in-tulsa)

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/8b/68b021e4-4648-11ec-b81b-63e0e633ccd4/6192b1d6edb30.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675)
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/c7/6c7e5e6c-4648-11ec-924b-534f0aa19974/6192b1dd56375.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675)
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/df/6dfc0438-4648-11ec-b7be-3b32c03ef864/6192b1dfd0a07.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675)
(https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/C5622AQGsJTOTKlLN_Q/feedshare-shrink_2048_1536/0/1637186587704?e=1642032000&v=beta&t=h4nfEGBKgiY_8rmwrYKs4E27ypyxWrMva7iEbCfLre0)
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/c0/7c0f5fde-4648-11ec-b9e4-2fe4535f80b9/6192b1f773917.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675)

QuoteTULSA, Oklahoma - Mayor GT Bynum and other Tulsa City leaders will reveal plans on Wednesday for a new $60-million project along Route 66.
Developers are calling this project "NOMA", also known as North of Market, and it's expected to bring a lot of exciting things to the area like new apartments and restaurants.

The City of Tulsa and iTulsa will unveil the official plans for the project today at the groundbreaking ceremony at 11:30 a.m. Developers say the four-acre project will be at 11th and Lewis and includes luxury apartments, restaurants, retail space, and a neighborhood gathering space with benches and open areas for activities. The market district is currently getting a big facelift with new sidewalks, trees, and lights. The city says it expects this project to create additional opportunities for people to live and work along Route 66.

Developers have not released a construction timeline, but we do expect to hear more about that later this morning at the groundbreaking.

Huge project!

https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/officials-introduce-60-million-mixed-use-market-district-project/article_9cb8d4ee-43c9-11ec-872b-2f4dd5ad2416.html#tracking-source=home-breaking

(https://i.imgur.com/clGZml6.jpg)

Really like the quote about creating a neighborhood with walking at the forefront.

"The businesses in the area, they've all been struggling for years and they all need customers. So you add residential density. We want there to be walk-ability. We want more people in a dense area in a hub where you can have commercial offerings and public space and where you can co-mingle with the neighbors and really kind of create a neighborhood experience."

"Community spaces will include 11,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space, a central neighborhood gathering space complete with trees, native plantings and festive lighting, planned public art and added lighting and security for the area."

Game changing development for the 11th St/Route 66 corridor. 

I wish they'd do something like that at 14th and Utica, with a hotel added too.

Quote from: DowntownDan on November 17, 2021, 12:46:52 PM
I wish they'd do something like that at 14th and Utica, with a hotel added too.

Hotel and office along Utica and residential on Trenton with retail space fronting 15th would be amazing on this site.

Impressed by the design of the 11/Lewis project.  I believe the architect is out of Denver.

Agree, would like some brownstone or townhouse type residential. Not the ultra modern stuff to the west.

Love the scale, emphasis on walkability, and the courtyard. Not a big fan of where the architecture ended up. I liked the renderings from this summer when it still had the Route 66 museum better since it had more deco elements and a rooftop terrace. This design is more cookie-cutter modern. I feel like the SE corner now has an industrial vibe that isn't going to age well. Should have kept the art deco element.

Still though, tremendous project that will add a huge shot of vitality to the area. Combined with Hawk Dairy - that's a reasonable population base to support all those little local businesses that MRM is injecting into the area.

Quote from: shavethewhales on November 17, 2021, 02:10:30 PM
Love the scale, emphasis on walkability, and the courtyard. Not a big fan of where the architecture ended up. I liked the renderings from this summer when it still had the Route 66 museum better since it had more deco elements and a rooftop terrace. This design is more cookie-cutter modern. I feel like the SE corner now has an industrial vibe that isn't going to age well. Should have kept the art deco element.

Still though, tremendous project that will add a huge shot of vitality to the area. Combined with Hawk Dairy - that's a reasonable population base to support all those little local businesses that MRM is injecting into the area.

I'm glad money is being thrown at 11th street but I wish the result wasn't SoDoSoPa. The little Craftmans on 10th are really gonna bring that Kenny's house vibe now. The Lofts at NoMa... Welcome Home.

Quote from: tulsabug on November 18, 2021, 10:01:48 AM
I'm glad money is being thrown at 11th street but I wish the result wasn't SoDoSoPa. The little Craftmans on 10th are really gonna bring that Kenny's house vibe now. The Lofts at NoMa... Welcome Home.

I get that just about any and all branding is generally pretty dumb but it's relatively effective.

I'm just curious what you think should be done here? It's hard for me to find much wrong with this development. Even if some don't like the industrial architecture style I think we can all agree it's far beyond what you typically see many infill projects (way nicer looking exterior than Cosmopolitan, Enclave in Brookside, etc.). Just drive around places like Dallas and it's stucco, bland, POS mid-rises everywhere. Many of them built on corridors that could have retail and developers just put blank walls or walk up units on prime streets that kill an area of street life. They're building in street level retail here with a pretty nice looking courtyard that they are sacrificing revenue (that could be more apartments) in order to promote a better pedestrian experience on this corner.

It just seems there's never a winnable solution to anything with anyone sometimes. The lot stays vacant and people grumble, lot is proposed for redevelopment and people grumble about 'gentrification', etc. I assume you don't think the empty lot should stay so how does a developer propose something that is a win for you here? I'm not being sarcastic I'm really curious on what people think should happen in places like this - if there's something I'm missing. Some of the sentiment in Tulsa at the moment feels like getting whiplash because people are angry there's not investment in some neighborhoods and as soon as something is proposed it's a full on attack of you're trying to raise property values and improve the area how dare you! lol.

Quote from: LandArchPoke on November 18, 2021, 12:05:07 PM
I get that just about any and all branding is generally pretty dumb but it's relatively effective.

I'm just curious what you think should be done here? It's hard for me to find much wrong with this development. Even if some don't like the industrial architecture style I think we can all agree it's far beyond what you typically see many infill projects (way nicer looking exterior than Cosmopolitan, Enclave in Brookside, etc.). Just drive around places like Dallas and it's stucco, bland, POS mid-rises everywhere. Many of them built on corridors that could have retail and developers just put blank walls or walk up units on prime streets that kill an area of street life. They're building in street level retail here with a pretty nice looking courtyard that they are sacrificing revenue (that could be more apartments) in order to promote a better pedestrian experience on this corner.

It just seems there's never a winnable solution to anything with anyone sometimes. The lot stays vacant and people grumble, lot is proposed for redevelopment and people grumble about 'gentrification', etc. I assume you don't think the empty lot should stay so how does a developer propose something that is a win for you here? I'm not being sarcastic I'm really curious on what people think should happen in places like this - if there's something I'm missing. Some of the sentiment in Tulsa at the moment feels like getting whiplash because people are angry there's not investment in some neighborhoods and as soon as something is proposed it's a full on attack of you're trying to raise property values and improve the area how dare you! lol.

Tulsa just needs to stop trying to be Austin or Denver or Portland or anything other than Tulsa. A line of one story standalone zero-lot line retails or something like the retail area on 11th and Rockford would be more appropriate to the area and to Tulsa as a whole. Then the area behind it build some affordable new Craftsman-style houses to match what's on 10th. This way small business owners can OWN their buildings and not rent from some rich a$$hole and people can BUY an actual house (especially one that doesn't cost $500k) instead of also renting apartments from the same rich a$$holes.

South Park nailed it with the SoDoSoPa episode I was referring to. Here's a commercial from the episode about the gentrification lofts that go up next to Kenny's house:

https://youtu.be/eoUtoqeEw8U (https://youtu.be/eoUtoqeEw8U)

I'm all for building up an area but this sort of thing just adds to the growing wealth disparity problem and that's all developers seem to be doing now.

Quote from: tulsabug on November 18, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
Tulsa just needs to stop trying to be Austin or Denver or Portland or anything other than Tulsa. A line of one story standalone zero-lot line retails or something like the retail area on 11th and Rockford would be more appropriate to the area and to Tulsa as a whole. Then the area behind it build some affordable new Craftsman-style houses to match what's on 10th. This way small business owners can OWN their buildings and not rent from some rich a$$hole and people can BUY an actual house (especially one that doesn't cost $500k) instead of also renting apartments from the same rich a$$holes.

South Park nailed it with the SoDoSoPa episode I was referring to. Here's a commercial from the episode about the gentrification lofts that go up next to Kenny's house:

https://youtu.be/eoUtoqeEw8U (https://youtu.be/eoUtoqeEw8U)

I'm all for building up an area but this sort of thing just adds to the growing wealth disparity problem and that's all developers seem to be doing now.

I've seen the episode so I laughed when I read that. I totally get what you're saying. Some of what your complaint about really is more towards the inflexibility of our zoning and building codes. There's also very little control the city has exerted over form of development too. The few times they've tried advocates did a really poor job of supporting it and allowed NIMBYs to mow over the council. Blake tried to get an overlay placed over Midtown that would have done exactly what you are talking about to require context sensitive development throughout Midtown. The form based codes in the Pearl was another missed opportunity.

I do wish we had a lot more small scale infill along commercial corridors. Places where people can have a shop below and apartment above and not just rent it but own the space too. It's nearly impossible to build things like this with our parking requirements, lot requirements, etc. The recent neighborhood infill overlay hopefully will address this for straight up multifamily/residential small scale infill but they did nothing to solve the issues for commercial infill.

So until some of those things are fixed it's hard to fault developers who are only doing what they are allowed to do. Frankly, the city just needs to do away with lot size requirements and parking requirements near downtown and along commercial corridors and you'd see more stuff like this pop up but given the blow back to the recent infill overlay I don't think there's any appetite for something like that from the city for a long time.

We're still going to need developments like these though. The problem if we don't have a mix of some large scale stuff we will run into an affordability crisis (see San Francisco). Since this is on two major arterial streets and will have public parking available for Mother Road and other stuff around it I think long term this is probably the right development for that lot. What will probably happen is most lots along 11th will morph into these types of developments like SoCo/Lamar in Austin and you'll slowly lose what makes those areas special. I just don't think our city leadership is will to see how to avoid that which would be something like a form based code or overlay along 11th that would encourage small scale infill in more places by removing parking requirements, lot requirements, etc. and having some sort of plan that identifies specific areas where large scale infill is appropriate and lots where it's not so you can set expectations for developers and neighbors up front of what is expected.

Quote from: LandArchPoke on November 18, 2021, 01:31:51 PM
I've seen the episode so I laughed when I read that. I totally get what you're saying. Some of what your complaint about really is more towards the inflexibility of our zoning and building codes. There's also very little control the city has exerted over form of development too. The few times they've tried advocates did a really poor job of supporting it and allowed NIMBYs to mow over the council. Blake tried to get an overlay placed over Midtown that would have done exactly what you are talking about to require context sensitive development throughout Midtown. The form based codes in the Pearl was another missed opportunity.

I do wish we had a lot more small scale infill along commercial corridors. Places where people can have a shop below and apartment above and not just rent it but own the space too. It's nearly impossible to build things like this with our parking requirements, lot requirements, etc. The recent neighborhood infill overlay hopefully will address this for straight up multifamily/residential small scale infill but they did nothing to solve the issues for commercial infill.

So until some of those things are fixed it's hard to fault developers who are only doing what they are allowed to do. Frankly, the city just needs to do away with lot size requirements and parking requirements near downtown and along commercial corridors and you'd see more stuff like this pop up but given the blow back to the recent infill overlay I don't think there's any appetite for something like that from the city for a long time.

We're still going to need developments like these though. The problem if we don't have a mix of some large scale stuff we will run into an affordability crisis (see San Francisco). Since this is on two major arterial streets and will have public parking available for Mother Road and other stuff around it I think long term this is probably the right development for that lot. What will probably happen is most lots along 11th will morph into these types of developments like SoCo/Lamar in Austin and you'll slowly lose what makes those areas special. I just don't think our city leadership is will to see how to avoid that which would be something like a form based code or overlay along 11th that would encourage small scale infill in more places by removing parking requirements, lot requirements, etc. and having some sort of plan that identifies specific areas where large scale infill is appropriate and lots where it's not so you can set expectations for developers and neighbors up front of what is expected.

Ha! Clearly the developer of this either hasn't seen the episode or totally missed the point (like those twits who root for the Emperor in Star Wars).

I understand that the city's incredible lack of vision is the real problem here, due in many ways to our mayor though I won't bash him too bad as I understand he's handicapped having been born without a spine. So I'll drop my larger societal complaint which, admittedly, is a bit much to lay on the shoulders of one little development. That being said the developers still only managed to come up with a crap design that doesn't even remotely fit in  with the aesthetic of 11th street. I would think calling this "North of Market" would push it towards at least echoing the Mother Road building but I guess that was lost on the "architect from Denver" who clearly dragged out his legos for a design idea. And I thought the design of the "Fernweh Shops" was uninspired and out of place - no surprise it's coming from the same group. I'm glad this is happening overall and I agree with all of your points. Your insights into the nuts and bolts of how the bureaucracy of Tulsa zoning works is fascinating and much appreciated. In the end this development is better than an empty concrete lot but it's one massive missed opportunity to really do something special on 11th street and for Tulsa. I really hope the developers don't keep on this path.

Though Cars was a crap film - this is what 11th Street needs to be:
(http://www.bughaus.com/Tulsanow/cars.jpg)

As a fun piece of trivia, at the Cars Land in Disneyland these are the gas pumps:

(http://www.bughaus.com/Tulsanow/10357240635_4d5f30d857_b.jpg)

Quote from: tulsabug on November 19, 2021, 09:34:03 AM
As a fun piece of trivia, at the Cars Land in Disneyland these are the gas pumps:

(http://www.bughaus.com/Tulsanow/10357240635_4d5f30d857_b.jpg)

"Good old days" when gasoline had tetraETHYLlead to boost the octane rating.  Then came catalytic converters which required no-lead gas.  I don't wish for the lead to come back though.

Quote from: Red Arrow on November 19, 2021, 10:07:13 AM
"Good old days" when gasoline had tetraETHYLlead to boost the octane rating.  Then came catalytic converters which required no-lead gas.  I don't wish for the lead to come back though.

That lead is what gave us 2,000 mi oil change intervals, 10,000 mi spark plug replacements, and a lot of other excess maintenance issues.  Which we don't have today.

(https://imgur.com/ZRjFyNf.jpg)

(https://imgur.com/dvgbdFD.jpg)

NOMA is rising quickly. These photos are already a week old.

No progress started on the development at the old dairy across the street.

The construction sucks but will be worth it in the end I think. The faster the better and construction on this has seemingly gone pretty quick.

I wonder how long the Advanced Auto Parts will last at the SE corner of 11th & Lewis?  New development either completed, under construction or planned on all of the other corners.

Quote from: SXSW on April 19, 2022, 08:38:54 AM
I wonder how long the Advanced Auto Parts will last at the SE corner of 11th & Lewis?  New development either completed, under construction or planned on all of the other corners.

I think they can last as long as they want to. It's not a franchise or anything and I doubt Advanced is going to want to leave O'Reilly and Autozone unopposed in that area. Not sure about KC Motorsports but they own the land so they can sit on it as long as they want to. I do wonder about the various little stores at the Mother Road Shops - they don't have established clientele, are kind of little kitschy stores that aren't draws on their own, and are having to suffer from all the construction. I know one already closed and online it says Gambill's is temporarily closed.

I don't want to force anyone out of business, but hopefully KC Motorsports decides to sell. That land could be used in such a better way for the area. There's plenty of space in Tulsa for a used car lot.

That's a really small lot - what could feasibly go there? After buying the land, tearing down the existing building, and putting something else up it would need to generate some serious revenue to get it's investment of probably $1m-1.5m back. Maybe a very small dispensary (like we need another one of those).

Quote from: tulsabug on April 19, 2022, 11:22:11 AM
That's a really small lot - what could feasibly go there? After buying the land, tearing down the existing building, and putting something else up it would need to generate some serious revenue to get it's investment of probably $1m-1.5m back. Maybe a very small dispensary (like we need another one of those).

I assume it would be part of the development of the old building next door and/or combined with a purchase of the Perry's building. Even on its own its not that small a lot. There will be a lot of value there when the construction is done.

The Perry's property already sold to Lobeck. The KC Auto people have so far refused to sell to anyone.

Looking at the Perry's property - they sold for $225k in Dec and the city has now raised their valuation of the property from $206k to $450k. I'm not sure of the rationalization for that but if I owned the KC property which is valued around $225k at this point I wouldn't sell for less than $500k if not lots lots lots more. Seems like they're holding all the cards right now. Personally if it was me I'd rebuild it as a more modern building and keep selling high-end used cars there like this:
- (https://s3-media0.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/Yi4xfQY4At8YuJgRSGa7aQ/l.jpg)

However holdout properties have their own special kind of charm!

(https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ipMa03WNJgWQ/v0/-1x-1.jpg)

Quote from: SXSW on July 25, 2021, 11:56:34 AM
I was trying to figure that out from the rendering of the intersection.  Odd they didn't show the mixed-use project at the NW corner unless they are waiting to unveil that closer to when it is supposed to break ground later this year.  Wish they could bury the power lines but I know the costs to do that are really high

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/6b/c6b8866e-e4f0-11eb-a61b-c7401c3d2690/60ef61a237792.image.jpg?resize=1920%2C1080)

So driving through this area the other day I noticed the tree addition was eliminating the bike lane entirely - it looked like it was having the bike lane dead-end into a tree and then further down the road the bike lane was magically appearing again but no place specifically for bikes around the intersection other than spilling them into traffic. I guess the rendering shows that too to a degree. Seems like a really poor and dangerous design for a really busy intersection that has become absurdly congested as of late unless I'm missing something.

Did some Christmas shopping today at Decopolis, (@TheArtist)  :D, Buck Adams, and an art gallery. That little stretch has some great energy. There were a bunch of people walking around shopping. One of the shop owners told me that at least 2 restaurants are in the works near Ike's Chili and that Empire pizza is taking over the building across the street.

Quote from: tulsabug on September 17, 2022, 08:31:44 AM
So driving through this area the other day I noticed the tree addition was eliminating the bike lane entirely - it looked like it was having the bike lane dead-end into a tree and then further down the road the bike lane was magically appearing again but no place specifically for bikes around the intersection other than spilling them into traffic. I guess the rendering shows that too to a degree. Seems like a really poor and dangerous design for a really busy intersection that has become absurdly congested as of late unless I'm missing something.

I know you posted this a while back but you aren't missing anything - this design is just really stupid and how the city allowed them to get away with this is crazy. The bike lanes shouldn't abruptly end like they will and this is a nationally designated bike route too, so not sure how they were even able to do this. Don't get me wrong, the road diet and stuff is great and I personally don't see the increase in congestion as that bad. 2 lane roads and slow traffic is actually good for businesses and much safer than how it was before but the bike lanes, etc. ending like they will is going to get someone killed or injured. Especially in an area with increasing tourism and someone on a bird scooter is not going to be paying attention and the bike lane ends and bam right into a car.

Most likely everything that is done now is going to have to be torn up too because the city rubber stamped stuff without paying attention and whether this will come back to tax payers for the city's mistake in approving the plans, the contractor who is building it all, civil engineer who designed the plans, or Kathy Taylor's foundation who is doing the TIF funding - I don't know yet.

If you look at the new sidewalks that are done, most of them have multiple power poles, utility wires, etc. in the middle of them! Literally taking up the entire sidewalk. How this got through the city, civil engineers, and the contractor with not a single person questioning it blows my mind. Just about none of the designs meet ADA requirements and the sidewalks are essentially useless because in order to get around some of them you'd have to step off the sidewalk into the planter beds or other areas to get around various things blocking the entire sidewalk.

This entire street project has been a dumpster fire and people are going to be pissed when they find out there is going to be massive delays in it opening because of all of this. I wouldn't be surprised if some lawsuits start flying around and the entire thing just stays like this until they can settle who is going to pay for what to fix it. It's been very hush hush to try and keep it under the radar but it'll eventually get around more. I was just up there several times and walked around that area and it was a pancakes moment. I've seen a few others starting to mention it as well.

Question that should be asked too is why weren't these incorporated into the new funding to bury the utilities? Would have avoided this all together if they had just done it properly. Funny thing in the rendering even show the poles in the middle of the sidewalks - problem in real life is the poles are about as wide as the sidewalk - unlike the renderings which show plenty of sidewalk to each side.

Quote from: ComeOnBenjals on December 20, 2022, 03:45:00 PM
Did some Christmas shopping today at Decopolis, (@TheArtist)  :D, Buck Adams, and an art gallery. That little stretch has some great energy. There were a bunch of people walking around shopping. One of the shop owners told me that at least 2 restaurants are in the works near Ike's Chili and that Empire pizza is taking over the building across the street.

Thanks for shopping at DECOPOLIS and supporting local! Glad you enjoyed your visit!

Quote from: LandArchPoke on December 20, 2022, 06:11:03 PM
Question that should be asked too is why weren't these incorporated into the new funding to bury the utilities? Would have avoided this all together if they had just done it properly. Funny thing in the rendering even show the poles in the middle of the sidewalks - problem in real life is the poles are about as wide as the sidewalk - unlike the renderings which show plenty of sidewalk to each side.

Noticed this today.  The only thing I could think of is that they are expecting the utility poles to be buried and the sidewalk shouldn't have to "jog" around them if they eventually won't be there.  Not sure how you can open a sidewalk that doesn't meet ADA standards though?

Quote from: SXSW on December 21, 2022, 02:48:16 PM
Noticed this today.  The only thing I could think of is that they are expecting the utility poles to be buried and the sidewalk shouldn't have to "jog" around them if they eventually won't be there.  Not sure how you can open a sidewalk that doesn't meet ADA standards though?

It has to be one of three things:
1) They will be removed in the near future, like you mention.
2) They got an exemption of some sort since the electric poles are only on the north sidewalks and the south ones are free from obstructions (except for a few light poles, but they're more offset so there is probably 3ft of sidewalk on one side of them).
3) They hope no one narcs them out. I would assume since there is no Federal money in this project (that I know of), that there is no Federal oversight so unless someone reports it, ain't nothin' gonna happen.

Quote from: LandArchPoke on December 20, 2022, 06:11:03 PM
Question that should be asked too is why weren't these incorporated into the new funding to bury the utilities? Would have avoided this all together if they had just done it properly. Funny thing in the rendering even show the poles in the middle of the sidewalks - problem in real life is the poles are about as wide as the sidewalk - unlike the renderings which show plenty of sidewalk to each side.

Well - at least the renderings are ADA-compliant!  ;D

Quote from: tulsabug on December 23, 2022, 07:33:50 AM
Well - at least the renderings are ADA-compliant!  ;D

That's the important part.   ;D

This is an interesting concept for a sidewalk.  I do like that there will be a buffer zone between the street and sidewalk or maybe the sidewalk will be really wide.  I don't like the idea of someone tripping into traffic.  Maybe the utilities will be buried or moved to the space next to the street.

https://goo.gl/maps/9HFTTgWXFswz5QT9A

Quote from: tulsabug on December 23, 2022, 07:30:33 AM
It has to be one of three things:
1) They will be removed in the near future, like you mention.
2) They got an exemption of some sort since the electric poles are only on the north sidewalks and the south ones are free from obstructions (except for a few light poles, but they're more offset so there is probably 3ft of sidewalk on one side of them).
3) They hope no one narcs them out. I would assume since there is no Federal money in this project (that I know of), that there is no Federal oversight so unless someone reports it, ain't nothin' gonna happen.

Since this is TIF money I believe the city can be sued over it if it is not ADA compliant and probably LTFF too since they are the developer and fronting the TIF $$ - I don't think they can get by with if one side is ok and one isn't. ADA law is odd - there's so much of the city that doesn't even have sidewalks so in theory you'd think if the south side sidewalks are ok they'd be ok, but I don't think they can look at it that way.

From what I've been told is it's already been reported to the city, etc. so it will have to be addressed - question is who is going to be held responsible for the cost to fix it. Each party bares some responsibility for the mistake. It should have never been permitted and approved by the city, the civil engineer/designer should have never designed it/planned it that way, the contractor should have never installed it that way, and whoever is the inspectors with the city should have flagged this as an issue long before it got to where it is today when they started construction of it.

There's just so many questions here of how LTFF has been able to do what they've been able to do here and the city has just been like whatever you want you'll get with no questions asked (or apparent oversight lol). Don't get me wrong, everything they are doing I'm all for but I think they should have had push back on the abrupt ending of the bike lanes and obviously whoever was approving the engineering and permitting on this project at the city was asleep at the wheel and should be fired. This should have been a pretty easy catch to keep from happening.