The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Good watch below, video made by the BOK Center: This is Tulsa Time

https://vimeo.com/158688160 (https://vimeo.com/158688160)

I think there's something very great going on in Tulsa with finally embracing a lot of our musical & cultural heritage. I can't wait to see what GKFF/Gilcrease/TU come up with for the Bob Dylan Archives. With that, OKPOP, the Woody Guthrie Center, Brady Theater, Cain's, and Guthrie Green all in a few blocks of each other the Brady District really is going to become something incredibly unique and special.
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From Bob Wills to Bob Dylan: Tulsa positions itself as major league in music
http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/music/from-bob-wills-to-bob-dylan-tulsa-positions-itself-as/article_bbb78324-0712-5dbb-99ec-3a92f5f2143e.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/music/from-bob-wills-to-bob-dylan-tulsa-positions-itself-as/article_bbb78324-0712-5dbb-99ec-3a92f5f2143e.html)

From Wills to Dylan, city has iconic connections

“It was sleeping for a while. It has always been a music town. It never stopped and came back all of a sudden. ... It has always been here. It was sleeping for a few years, and now it’s waking up, I think.” Jamie Oldaker
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Music city: Tulsa leaders aim to make the city a destination for music lovers
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/offbeat/music-city-tulsa-leaders-aim-to-make-the-city-a/article_38a50b21-1125-5493-b74b-b6ffce6e187d.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/offbeat/music-city-tulsa-leaders-aim-to-make-the-city-a/article_38a50b21-1125-5493-b74b-b6ffce6e187d.html)

Tulsa’s legendary music history sustains its creative energy and influence.

Like a steady drum beat shaking the rafters at Cain’s Ballroom, there’s momentum building in Tulsa. And city leaders feel the wood floor shaking under their feet, basking in its joyful noise. With the announcement this month that the Bob Dylan Archives are coming to Tulsa due to a partnership between the University of Tulsa and the George Kaiser Family Foundation, people around the world are taking notice of what is happening for this blossoming music city.

“We got it,” said Abby Kurin, director of the Tulsa Office of Film, Music, Arts and Culture. “We have the history. We have the music scene right now. Then you add in the Woody Guthrie Center, the Bob Dylan Archives, and OKPOP museum — it’s all of those items that continue to put Tulsa on the map.”

As these pieces come online, with Dylan’s archives making their way here over the next two years and groundbreaking on the OKPOP museum expected in 2017, Tulsa leaders hope to position the city as a destination for music scholars, historians and fans from across the world.

With the BOK Center, Cain’s Ballroom and Brady Theater, as well as smaller venues that highlight locals like The Shrine and The Colony, Tulsa can be the next great music city, as long as it stays true to itself, experts say.

“I think the momentum is just getting started,” said Jeff Nickler, general manager of SMG Tulsa, which manages the BOK Center. “It seems like finally instead of inventing something new for Tulsa to promote, we decided to promote the assets we have had all along, which is our musical heritage and our musical talent here. And across the board, people are recognizing that.”

A new hub for music scholars

With the announcement in 2011 that the George Kaiser Family Foundation was purchasing the archives of Woody Guthrie and moving them to Tulsa, to be housed in a new center dedicated to his legacy, the city’s music future wasn’t clear.

The Brady District was still a scattering of empty warehouses, though work was well underway to transform the neighborhood north of downtown, which would change Tulsa.

But Ken Levit, executive director of the George Kaiser Family Foundation, along with many community partners, had big ideas.

“We wanted it to energize music and culture generally in our Tulsa area,” Levit said. “I don’t think there was ever a big plan to do other archives, really. Our foundation is at a stage where we can seize opportunities when they come about. I think it was in the back of our minds that things like this would emerge.

“And lo and behold it did when people from the Dylan archive contacted us,” Levit said.

Add in the Phil Ochs archive that was donated to the Woody Guthrie Center and the organizations that have seen the successful care and display of Guthrie’s work, and Tulsa’s legacy as a music town has gotten some serious credentials. The Woody Guthrie Center was the second designated Grammy Museum Affiliate in the world.

Tulsa is now home to the actual notebooks and papers that Oklahoma-native Guthrie used to write some of the most iconic songs in the country’s songbook. “This Land is Your Land” is handwritten on a piece of notebook paper, and is stored here in Tulsa.

Having that actual, physical material is an automatic draw to even casual fans. And to see it, to study it, they have to be here.

“I’ve learned there’s something powerful about having the original source material physically here that reverberates and has a power to make things happen, which is a little bit surprising,” Levit said. “If we just had a Woody Guthrie Center here, it wouldn’t be the same without the original materials here. There’s something about the magnetic effect of having the source materials here that artists and students and scholars can come and touch and be inspired by.”

Fans of Bob Dylan from around the world will come here to see some of the 6,000 pieces of work in his archives, which is being collected, digitized and stored at the Helmerich Center for American Research at Gilcrease Museum until a more permanent space can be established in the Brady Arts District.

For a city on track to become a music-lover’s destination, it’s an enormous draw.

“I think Woody got a lot of attention for sure and was noticed and has a very dedicated following,” Levit said.

“Dylan has been a little bit of a different experience because of the global interest in him.” Levit said. “I was probably somewhat taken aback by just the magnitude of the response and how overwhelming it is. The number of people who posted about wanting to move to Tulsa, it is rather stunning.”

While a space for Dylan near Guthrie in the Brady Arts District is in the works, other projects in the works are coming to give even more context to Tulsa’s musical past. The Oklahoma Museum of Popular Culture is on the way, and with it the story of Oklahoma in music, movies, television and more. Thanks to a bond issue signed by Gov. Mary Fallin last year, OKPOP will launch forward the notion of Tulsa as the culture center of Oklahoma.

“But I think if you really look at why OKPOP is in Tulsa, it makes perfect sense,” said Jeff Moore, director of the OKPOP Museum. “If you look at Tulsa as a music city, now it’s a big deal with Woody Guthrie and Bob Dylan, and the collections coming with the POP, Leon Russell and all those stories.”

The museum, which is close to finalizing the selection of an architecture firm with a goal of breaking ground in summer 2017, will also have collections from the likes of Roy Clark, The GAP Band, Kristin Chenoweth and JJ Cale. It will take the threads of these different musicians and weave them together into a pattern of context for Oklahoma’s vast cultural influence.

Drawing people to Tulsa for those experiences is just part of the overall goal of making Tulsa a destination. A big part is nurturing the musicians already here.

Building up the scene

From Bob Wills to John Fullbright, musicians in Tulsa have shaped the music scene here to fit the time and the people. The blues and country roots morphed into a rock adolescence, nurturing talent all along the way.

Now, the city seems to be taking advantage of having that community and helping to build it up even further.

In the side bar of Cain’s Ballroom last month, the Tulsa Office of Film, Music, Arts and Culture hosted its next series of panel discussions on how to succeed in music, with tips from local leaders in the scene. It was a standing-room-only event.

Kurin, one of the event’s organizers, said the interest in that speaks to the strength of Tulsa’s creative community combined with its desire to build itself up.
“I think Tulsa has an incredible entrepreneurial spirit,” Kurin said. “What I feel like we always try to convey is our filmmakers, musicians and artists are still entrepreneurs. That’s their startup. That’s the thing about Tulsa: You really can craft what you’re trying to do here.”

One of the city’s arguably most successful musical startups called the Brady Arts District home when there was little else there.

The Tulsa-natives Hanson got their start at Mayfest and have for more than a decade established Tulsa as their home base.

They have taken their music around the world, but have expanded to beer, music festivals, art and more. They see a spirit in Tulsa that is found in few other places, with a class of creative people who are making their own way, but doing it together as a community.

“The word scene is important because that’s just a collection of people,” said Taylor Hanson in a recent interview from their studio in the Brady Arts District. “That collection of people colliding together creates opportunity. But it never happens on accident.”

Tulsa has dozens of music venues, many of them with packed schedules featuring local musicians every night of the week. In order for them to succeed and break out of Tulsa, they need more support and resources. The music business is just that: Business. It takes recording studios, management, engineers, more support throughout the industry for it to grow.

“I think deciding to say it’s worthy of investment in and it’s worthy of treating it like this is a real industry. This is a real thing that involves people’s businesses and talents and resources,” Hanson said. “We need to be able to keep talented people and get talented people to say, ‘Tulsa. I want to be there.’ ”

Tulsa: A music destination

If people want to make Tulsa a music destination, the BOK Center has shown its place as one of the anchors. Nickler said that 41 percent of ticket buyers are from outside the Tulsa metro area.

“Before we opened our doors, people said it would never work,” Nickler said. “It’s hard to find one of those naysayers now.”

In the more than eight years since opening, the BOK Center has brought iconic musicians to Tulsa, several of them choosing Tulsa over bigger markets. Tulsa is considered an “A” market now, Nickler said. But to get there, they stand on the shoulders of those who came before them.

“When we go out and pursue shows and talk to agents and promoters and really tout Tulsa as a music destination, we tout our musical heritage and our places like Cain’s that have built a wonderful destination here,” Nickler said.

Dylan and OKPOP will only continue that momentum. It’s a momentum that’s taken a while to build up steam, though.

“When New York is taking notice, when .L.A. is taking notice, when Nashville is taking notice, that’s a good thing,” Moore said. “Now we need to recognize that and say, ‘This is our DNA.’ ”

As the drumbeat continues to get louder and louder, local leaders hope to grow in a way that maintains Tulsa’s identity. Nowhere else can someone see the stage Bob Wills made famous. Or sit in the small bar where the iconic Tom Skinner held court and mentored generations of musicians for years at The Colony. Or throw out a blanket on the Guthrie Green while a parade of local and national talent entertain families on a spring day.

“We’re our own place,” Kurin said. “Tulsa is not the next Nashville. We’re not the next Austin. While we have mad respect for those institutions, we’re our own thing. We’re creating something that’s going to be recognized for decades to come.”

Jerry Wofford 918-581-8346
jerry.wofford@tulsaworld.com

The Brady is competing but outside of that it's no different than Oklahoma City. Kudos to the people that are putting in an effort though, because it's a lot better than it used to be.

Thanks for the cold water.  Not sure if you were talking about The Brady Theater or The Brady District.  Assuming you are talking the Theater, I think it is a really cool venue with a ton of history.  It could use some sprucing up.  However, I think the Cains is the one of the best venue's in the country ... most everyone that performs there says something similar.  It is considerably different than anything in OKC. 

Are we concerned that the Center of the Universe festival's (possibly permanent) hiatus will hurt this trend? Not trying to throw cold water on anything. I want to see the music scene boiling over, just trying to figure out where we need to turn up the heat.

Lol...Wut....??

The video is cool and there is some cool stuff going on in Tulsa.  But unless and until the politicians in OKC become reasonable, we're not going to attract or retain young people  We just aren't.  When I attend national conferences and tell people I'm from Tulsa, they usually ask about the latest ridiculous thing the state legislature tried to pull that made national headlines.  There are good people doing good thing to make us competitive with Denver and Nashville and even Austin for young folks, but we'll always be held back when the politicians do embarrassing stuff constantly, the most glaring of which is the current budget crisis and schools.  I'm still in the "young professional" demographic and I have kids.  I'm constantly forced to consider moving to a place that actually values their schools and aren't stuck on economic ideologies that just aren't working.  I'm also sick of having to defend this place when I travel based on the latest headlines.  I've been able to say that a bunch of people think its ridiculous and we're trying to organize to vote the clowns out, but it seems we're still such a minority that the same people keep winning elections and ruining the reputation of the state.

The problem with COTU is simple:

The promoters want to bring in headliner acts with a music budget in the $500,000 to $1,000,000 range.  They simply cannot sell enough tickets or for the sort of price that will make that feasible without heavy sponsorship.  Moving to a larger venue may or may not solve their problem if they want more notable and more expensive acts.  They seem to think it will make a difference for some reason.  Rocklahoma appears to have been a huge success, so much they have a permanent venue out in Pryor with improvements on it.  It might also be that their band mix generally consists of known quantities, not a mix of indies and headliners.  So they can charge more for tickets.

Personally, I do not believe you need national headliners for a downtown music festival.  D-Fest started out as an indie festival and went bust when they started trying to bring in expensive national acts.  Same thing with COTU. You can find plenty of really good regional and newer acts who play really good music and just want an audience to play in front of.  I have promoted smaller music events in the 18th & Boston area and made them profitable for the charities we were raising funds for.  I’ve never attempted to promote a multiple day music festival so there could be all sorts of issues I’m not aware of.

If you are doing a festival which consists of 95 indie or regional bands and five really expensive headliners, you will get your donkey handed to you financially.  The perceived ticket value with that many indies is a whole lot less than it is for strictly five nationally-known headliner type acts.

My personal opinion is, the failure of D-Fest and now COTU is totally self-inflicted by overly-ambitious promoters who could do quite well with lesser-known talent.  Lesser known doesn’t necessarily mean a bad musical experience, either.

JMO, YMMV.

Too Hot....!!!

I was talking about the district.

Talk to your friends/family ALL the time.  Be relentless - never let up on them.  For every 100 people you know, 60 to 70 of them are voting this way!

In the meantime, Missouri is the closest state that still shows symptoms of caring about their kids education.  And Arkansas a little bit....

Tulsa has the structure in place to become the closest rival to Nashville.   Just how much music will you see recorded in Tulsa depends on the recording venues and their attractiveness to the aspiring artists.

Situated in the heart of country music in a state known for many legendary artists; Tulsa offers a refreshing alternative to city like Nashville  that has reached it saturation point.

I've always thought of Tulsa as an arts & music town. That is what the city has been doing well for many years and there is a significant history there.  I am glad to see more attention given to this from outside of the state.

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We have had and presumably still have recording studios here.  Leon Russell even had the church studios many years ago.  Old local group - David Dover Band - did some recording here at times.  One of the kids even recorded a couple of records in town a long time ago.  Don't know how many are left, but there has to be something going on...

Steve Ripley had Church Studios for awhile and I believe most, if not all, of The Tractors material was recorded.  I think he’s now recording out of a studio on his land up north of Stillwater.  I’m pretty sure the Hansons record at 3CG down in the Brady District.  There’s Drapp Studios on W. 51st between Union & 33rd.  The studio at Leon’s old lake retreat on Grand Lake has been renovated by some noted musicians.  The compound itself has belonged to a Tulsa Chiropractor since the early 1990’s who is also a musician and huge Leon fan.

With digital recording, studio design takes somewhat of a back seat.  Proper studios do still exist, but the acoustic design is not near as important as it was when everything was done on analog equipment.  There have been hits literally recorded in the musician’s living room in recent times.

Nice piece on Church Studio from a few years ago:

http://www.tulsapeople.com/Tulsa-People/September-2013/A-sanctuary-of-sound/

KOSU, NPR had Don White on this evening and they were talking about the old days of Tulsa music.  JJ Cale, David Teagarden (sp?), etc.  Played a song from an album of his that had Eric Clapton on it.  Good show.

OK, I may have to make my first trip to the Woody Guthrie Center now. An exhibit featuring Stevie Ray Vaughan is opening tomorrow.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/offbeat/stevie-ray-vaughan-the-focus-of-latest-woody-guthrie-center/article_1ef4fb0e-6a9d-5500-ba98-97522cab028e.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/offbeat/stevie-ray-vaughan-the-focus-of-latest-woody-guthrie-center/article_1ef4fb0e-6a9d-5500-ba98-97522cab028e.html)

Yep, not going to miss that exhibit.  I’m a huge SRV fan.

That's awesome. I'll drop by for sure.

Yeah but does Tulsa want to be an "industry" city like Nashville, or a creative incubator, like Austin was 25-30 years ago?  I think the latter.

There may not be a difference to some, but to me there is a big difference.  Nashville is basically a country music assembly line, versus what used to happen in Austin, which was a breeding ground for interesting artists spanning many genres.

Not likely to happen anytime soon....Garth and Trisha just finished their self-imposed exile to Owasso and returned to Nashville.  If Tulsa area was going to 'boom' music-wise, it has had many opportunities in the past that just didn't quite reach critical mass.  This moment is another one of those.

As discussed, Nashville is an industry town. Much like L.A. Most Country music is recorded in Nashville, most everything else is recorded in LA. Of course there is a ton of other places for this or that, more and more home studios. NYC obviously has a couple famous studios as do locations around the world. But LA and Nashville are music industry towns. You go there to "make it."

But most of those acts don't originate from LA or Nashville. I'd argue they don't even get their fair share of recording artists coming from there (excepting rap music from LA).  Austin, Seattle, and yes, Tulsa have far more recording artists per capita than Nashville or LA.  For the size and economics of the town, Tulsa is a disproportional force in the music world. Clearly we aren't "the" force and we are somewhat under the radar - but I certainly think it is an angle we can grow, play up, and gain attention from.

Austin is played out. Seattle peaked in the 90s. Lets take their place.

Describing Nashville as an "industry town" is simplistic to an extreme. Nashville's arts scene is much more than a place where country artists go to record. While it is true that most recording of country and Christian music occurs in Nashville, if the overall arts scene is considered, it is one of the most vibrant arts communities in the country. By mere coincidence I happened onto a report done by SMU's National Center for Arts Research that ranked large and medium/small communities according to arts providers (independent artists, arts and culture employment numbers, and arts organizations), arts dollars (program revenue, contributed revenue, total expenses, and compensation of staff and artists), and public support (state, local, and federal government support for arts programs). Nashville was ranked 2nd nationally, behind Washington, DC, but ahead of NYC. Austin made the list for the first time, ranking 18th, just ahead of Kansas City. Anyone in the top 20 isn't doing badly at all, but Nashville is on a roll. I have friends working in the (non-country) music business there, and they describe the scene as amazing.

Nashville is unique and many of the factors that led to its cultural preeminence don't apply here, but it is a very good example of a city leveraging its position in a specific genre to promote growth overall.

Coincidentally, the Tennessee Performing Arts Center is a virtual clone of Tulsa's PAC. The Nashville Symphony gave up on trying to make the lousy acoustics of the Andrew Jackson Hall work and built their own symphony hall, the Schermerhorn Symphony Center. The problem with the TPAC wasn't its size, it was its design. Chapman Music Hall in Tulsa and Andrew Jackson Hall in Nashville are very flexible spaces with many moving parts, but no configuration allows sound to project from the stage to the audience.

The summary for Nashville follows:

#2  Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro-Franklin, TN (pop. 1,792,649) Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro-Franklin, TN,
has long been known for its expansive music scene, but the emergence of world-class visual
arts and performing arts options has put Nashville – Music City – on the map as an artistic and
culturally rich destination. Nashville claims to be the largest songwriter community in the world,
with a strong presence of Americana-focused artisans and artists. There is robust public support
for the arts at the local level, and individual philanthropists have helped propel growth of
some of the larger cultural institutions in the last decade. To attract and nurture emerging artists in
all genres, Nashville leaders recently pooled funds to create Periscope, a six-week artist boot camp
that provides artists with pre-IPO startup training. Music and recording activity in Nashville exceeds
the level found in 99% of other communities. The Frist Center for the Visual Arts is the anchor for a rapidly expanding
visual arts scene. The Tennessee Performing Arts Center and the Schermerhorn Symphony Center are main
performing arts venues. Nashville is in the top 5% of all cities on the Arts Dollars, Arts Providers and Government
Support measures.

The entire report can be read here: http://www.smu.edu/~/media/Site/Meadows/NCAR/NCARWhitePaper-ArtsVibrancyIndexII (http://www.smu.edu/~/media/Site/Meadows/NCAR/NCARWhitePaper-ArtsVibrancyIndexII)

Describing LA as in "industry town" is simplistic to an extreme too. I was trying to differentiate them from creative centers that are not also the hub for the recording industry. I don't think we can steal the recording industry from Nashville or LA, but I think we can be on the map as a creative place that supports music and the arts, and draw in both creative people and people who want to enjoy their work product.

Random note: if you haven't popped into Soul City to have a bite, a beer and some live local music, you should.  I caught Mark Gibson there a couple weeks ago. (Speaking of incredible local talent.)  Felt like I was in Austin.  Very cool place!  Great vibe.  (And delicious bison tacos!)

Tulsa has an incredibly rich music history, but if you don’t know where to look for it nor were into our history, you wouldn’t know it existed.

Leon Russell is probably the most influential songwriter and producer to come out of this area.  As a studio musician in LA in the 1960’s, he literally played on 100’s of singles and albums.  The list of artists who recorded at Russell's Church Studio and Shelter Studio on Grand Lake is legendary:

George Harrison, Ringo Starr, Bill Wyman, Charlie Watts, Steve Winwood, Eric Clapton, JJ Cale, Phoebe Snow, Tom Petty, Joe Cocker, etc.  His record label was known for discovering up and coming acts, along with Petty, Shelter records released Bob Marley’s first single, and discovered local acts The GAP Band and Dwight Twilley.

Jerry Lynn Williams, a songwriter who wrote for Clapton, Bonnie Raitt, BB King, Clint Black, Delbert McClinton, Stevie Ray Vaughan and others lived down near Haskell and maintained a studio there.  Word was Clapton traveled to Williams’ place quite often.  

Clapton also worked with Tulsa musicians Carl Radle, JJ Cale (wrote Cocaine), Jamie Oldaker, and Rocky Frisco.

David Teegarden played for Bob Seger’s Silver Bullet Band for years.

There’s many lesser-known Tulsa artists who have made it on a national scale as session and/or touring backing musicians.

I haven’t even started in on the Tulsa area’s contributions to country music.  Jim Halsey has managed many of the top country music acts of the last 40 years from Tulsa.  Roy Clark lives in Tulsa near Utica Square.

I’ve also not counted later popular acts like Hanson or David Cook who came out of the area.

Tulsa is a known quantity within the American music scene.  It simply doesn’t have the popular buzz Austin does.

Tulsa has always been a really good arts town, I think we are all a bit to close to it to realize how great we’ve had it with the arts.  I still recall what Al Hirt said the last time he played in Tulsa at the Brady Theater with the Tulsa Symphonia.  He was lamenting the recent demise of the symphony in New Orleans and begged those in attendance to continue to support the arts in Tulsa because cities larger than ourselves were taking theirs for granted.

There happens to be an act playing tonight that I hear is pretty entertaining!

I'm in Austin this week and Tulsa has about 30 years to catch up on. Sucks.

Tulsa has always had a vibrant music scene.  You realize people from ATX probably travel to Nashville or LA and say the same thing you just did, right?  It’s all in perspective.

Personally, I can’t stand all the traffic in ATX.  Are they gaining on managing it better through the I-35 corridor?

Haven't been on 35, but it was backed up when I saw it today. Mopac is an issue currently because of construction. They are building protected bike lanes all over Downtown, the bus system is fantastic (in particular the BRT) and it looks like they are extending the light rail.

Disagree with you on what people from Austin say. I wasn't impressed with Nashville and feel like they try mimicking Austin. When I'm here it's all about seeing live music. In Tulsa, a few shows every year. It's really not the impressive besides the Brady.

Austin has the HUGE advantage that is the University of Texas, Texas State, and St. Edward's pumping the region with 80,000+ college students who do things like go to shows, support a gazillion bars, become hipsters who support an alternative music scene, and in some cases actually become the musicians.  It's really tough to replicate that unless we could convince some of our philanthropic benefactors to found universities and then sit back and wait 100 years.

Also big plus in having Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, et. all decide Austin was dope in the 70s and set up shop there. 

I lived in Austin 2010-2013 and can verify that it is indeed awesome (although unfortunately some of the chillest hippie cowboy spots are being pushed out).  When I first moved there my office building downtown was surrounded on three sides by surface parking lots.  By the time I left all three had skyscrapers going up on them.

They also put water in their river - which is really not much more than a glorified creek in its natural state - several decades ago and its now the city's #1 natural amenity. 

Agree on UT being a huge advantage.

Hey we're working on that (finally).

Ever go to any shows at The Cain’s, Vanguard, Merc, Unit D, etc.?

If all you focus on are acts large enough for the Brady, BOK, or The Joint you are missing out on a lot of Tulsa’s music scene.

U Texas is an amazing asset in terms of fresh faces, young people, talent, jobs, tourism, and cash. It also gets to suck down tens of thousands of state jobs (*cough* like OKC *cough*). Downtown Austin is amazing. The river area is cool. A few of the hill country suburbs are neat. But outside of those areas, it is rapidly becoming just another big city.

A one bedroom apartment within 10 miles of UT (which includes all of downtown) rents for an average of $1207 per month. In Tulsa, that number is $637.

Austin was rated the 4th most congested city in America. Slightly better than San Francisco, and slightly more congested than NY. The city simply wasn't built for the growth it experienced and did not plan ahead (my relatives in Austin were upset a decade ago when they voted down light rail, now it is back on the ballot with twice the timetable and ten times the price tag).

As a result, if you don't want to live in a $1200/month one bedroom in the cool part of time, average commutes have crept north of 30 minutes in most areas.

As a result of all of this, the vibe that made the city an awesome music destination has started to choke out. The starving artist can't live in the center of Austin anymore. 6th Street is so popular many of the venues barely have to pay musicians who are trying to catch on.

This, of course, isn't all bad news for Austin. Its growing pains. But while Tulsa can't and shouldn't strive to be Austin, the growing pains in Austin are an opportunity to cities like Tulsa that aren't "it" yet. And we should capitalize on that to the best of our ability.
- - - -

DavidEinstein:

There is live music 7 days a week within a few miles of downtown.

This weekend there is live music at:
The Colony
Guthrie Green
The Vanguard
Brady Theatre
River Spirit Casino
Cain's
The Woody Guthrie Center
The Shrine
Broken Arrow PAC
Mercury Lounge
Woody's (fka River's Edge)
Smitty's Tavern
Hunt Club
The VFW
Osage Casino
The JAzz Depot
The Tulsa PAC
Crow Creek
Baker St. Pub
Soul City


and at least a dozen other places I haven't heard of...

Colony, Soundpony, Guthrie Green.  These are some of the best places to see music in Tulsa.  The music may not be to your liking but Tulsa has a few things going for it...
 - National stopover spots like Cain's, Brady, and Soundpony (the indie up-and-comers stop by Soundpony almost every night of the week - they worked hard to make it a critical part of the indie circuit and now have to turn bands away).  
 - An active, collaborative music scene with dozens of excellent instrumentalists and songwriters.  What is unique about Tulsa is the collaborative spirit - musicians are constantly playing in each others bands and they have been doing so for years.  They are all getting better and better and some are starting to get national exposure.  This is how you create a sustainable music scene.
 - Dozens of great young punk/indie bands - so many young musicians making really creative music and playing constantly.  Again, it may not be your favorite music, but many of the best players in Tulsa (John Moreland) started in punk bands (some are still in punk bands).  
Tulsa has an amazing music scene and it's just getting better. It's getting attention regionally, nationally and (gradually) internationally.  
Austin is awesome, of course - Nashville is too.  Honestly, we will keep being Tulsa and that's a good thing. More and more people will notice and appreciate that we aren't Austin or Nashville. However, if we insist on being like Austin, let's shoot for Austin circa 1993.  

Local boy Paul Benjaman plays at the Colony most Sundays and is playing the Guthrie Green on Sunday May 8 (mothers day) and he is the opening act for JJ Grey and Mofro at the Cain's May 11.

Almost wrote that exact same thing a bit earlier.  I love Austin,  but the Austin in my mind is the one from about 20-25 years ago.  Less crowded, less expensive, a little more rough around the edges, and still weird.   It's still great, and it would be easy to chalk up my irritation with the current Austin as simply being 25 years older than I was back then, but when I get down there I'll still be at the Continental or Saxon Pub, or some other dive South of the river, until closing.   So I'm not dead yet.

I agree with the last several posts.  Tulsa has an incredible music scene, and it's growing all the time.   Anyone who doesn't see it simply isn't getting out in it.

And there’s this: the truly best acts out of Austin do tour through Tulsa.  The rest are pretty ubiquitous. 

Yes, I've seen all of the smaller acts in Tulsa for years. I appreciate it but regardless of what you all say about Austin changing (it's grown, those small venues are still there and artist don't buy houses they rent with friends) it will always have cultural, education and mindset advantages that Tulsa doesn't.

Anybody remember Keep Tulsa Lame? Funny mock ourselves and pointed out that we just need to be ourselves which I'd agree with. Regular Midwestern city with a few good local acts.

I just don't see how we will ever tap into that market. Dfest, failed. COUfest, failed. They evolved SXSW for the better in my opinion and they still also have more arts centric festivals like ACL, Fun Fun Fun, Old Settlers, Psych Fest, etc.

Recent acts out of Austin are Explosions in the Sky, LCD Soundsystem, Ghostland Observatory and a ton of other acts. I'm only comparing Austin because I'm visiting this week and I think it's the ultimate music destination to compare to, but I don't even think Tulsa is on the map regionally much less nationally right now.

The biggest issue is the cultural difference. Tulsa is bland outside of a small bubble and that doesn't attract musicians.

Will be interesting to see if Austin goes the way Nashville did.  They have become victim to their own success.  It's one of the "growth for growth's sake" happenings.

Nashville got all jammed up in the city center, all based around the Ryman Theater.  So they moved WAY out in the boonies.  It ain't the Grand Ole Opry to me anymore, but that move made it work and it has turned into an even bigger destination.

Now, will Austin music scene move out somewhere - maybe north to Round Rock, so DFW people can get there easier - and leave the city center as a quaint little remnant?  The old Ryman Theater is still chugging along, and that is the only area of town we visit when there - haven't even been out to see the 'new' Grand Ole Opry' (even though it has been since the early 70's).  Austin may also end up with the highly commercial 'out of town' version, with a smaller, more intimate, more interesting city core.



Which reminds me...I gotta get to Key West before the Green Parrot Bar loses its soul....

I was just in the "new" Grand Ole Opry. It is impressive, but in a Disney World kind of way. It is nothing to look at on the outside, and extremely "produced" on the inside. Like a movie set kind of way. Like it was made to look old, but is not actually old. It felt brand new yet it is really 42 years old. They have the medallion from the old Ryman in the center of the stage which is kind of cool, but how much history is a 3 foot circle of wood flooring really?

Now, on a side note, the hotel next door (Gaylord) is quit impressive. Out corporate gathering had an amazing time there.

The "odd" thing about that - makes ya wanna say, "huh...??" - is that the original Ryman only had a 30 year run as the Grand Ole Opry.  The new one has been around 30% - noticeably - longer.  Go figure...why the new one doesn't have the same "appeal" - even though it is thriving and appears to be going very strong? 

Like so many things, people become enamored with the "feel" of a place, then once they go there, want to change it all.  Human nature.  Quirky, fun little places become victims of their own success.

Silver Dollar City  (Sammy Lane Resort, Branson !)
Gatlinburg, TN  (Dollywood....)
Austin



Little getaway streaming video - get the feel of the place in my ears, if I can't be immersed in it personally....
http://www.greenparrot.com/key-west-webcams/

I’m really glad I don’t have the same prescription vision as you do.  

The big reason DFest failed was loss of their signature sponsor. COTU failed because major sponsors never materialized.  Sadly, one of the two founders of that suffered a traumatic brain injury a couple of months ago and has a very long recovery ahead of him.  I’m less than optimistic this will re-appear in a larger venue as he was claiming it would in an interview a week or so before this accident happened.

Those are both events which, IMO, got much bigger than necessary and started to rely on larger national touring acts to try and get a bigger draw at the gate.  That, apparently, did not equate to financial solvency.  Those were not sustainable business models, they are not a reflection on Tulsa’s music scene, but what I’d consider poor business judgement by the promotors.  I also think the heat of July makes it a bad time to try and do any sort of outdoor festival on the concrete in Tulsa, that’s the main reason MC and I never went to COTU.  We are festival people but it’s just too hot to enjoy ourselves.

If someone could convince Peter Mayo or Chad Rogers (or both) to take the helm of a festival, I’d give it a much greater chance of success.  They regularly book music acts, know the industry, and most important- the economics of it.  Peter has been booking bands since 1977.

Completely false that Austin has become a victim of its own success. Last time I was here was in 2004 for ACL Festival and the city has actually gotten better. The public transit is better, the protected bike lanes are more prevalent, there are more music festivals/venues and it is so successful the only thing people from Tulsa can do is retort to the "it's not the same anymore" debate and fill in excuses for why we are so far behind. Just my $0.02

I agree, when another Tulsa music festival reappears let's not have it in the middle of summer.

Public transit in Austin is deplorable. Any other city Austin's size has considerably better transit, and for a city that is so 'alternative' and 'forward thinking' it sure isn't in many regards. Look at Portland, Salt Lake City, Denver, Charlotte, etc. all blow Austin out of the water when it comes to transit.

Now as far as our culture being a bland city - I think you need to cheer up a bit. A lot of it really has to do with point of view - if you go through life with the notion that the glass is half empty everything will seem negative, but a glass half full you'll see some of the better things. I'll admit, I used to have many of the same views about Tulsa, but I've really changed my mind set on the city over the last few years. There really is a lot to take advantage of here in terms of quality of life and that goes to entertainment from live music, festivals, sports, the general affordability of the city, and the ease of living here (when I was in DC the smallest task was a giant pain in the a**).

Compare Tulsa to Oklahoma City? If you really think we are less cultured than OKC from music to political thinking, there may not be much hope for ya (sorry). Things like when our council passed unanimously with no fight to adopt a fair housing policy that included LGBT. OKC? Well they almost voted it down, and passed 5-4 after a very public fight - that's just one minor example. Sally Kern is all I need to say when comparing the difference between OKC and Tulsa. What about Omaha, Little Rock, Des Moines, Wichita? For a city our size, we punch well above our weight in many areas. If you try to compare us to Denver, Portland, Austin of course Tulsa is many years behind, they are also metros that have generally been twice the size of Tulsa since the 20s so of course they have many things we don't. Comparing Tulsa to Austin is like trying to compare Austin to San Fran, NY, or somewhere much larger, it's not a similar comparison.

There's many distinct advantages Tulsa has in order for us to really become a draw for people. Not everyone wants to be in a large, very expensive city. That is how Austin became so popular in the first place.  It was seen as an affordable city that had more cultural than its peer cities, so people who were tired of paying $600-700k for a house in LA relocated. Austin is now morphing into the very thing many of those people relocated to get away from. Austin is experiencing many issues at the moment, and to say it's not is blatantly ignorant (sorry). The city has some of the worst mobility issues anywhere in North America, mainly because it is the most car dependent major city in Texas - yes even more than Dallas or Houston. It's affordability has vanished rapidly in the last 3-4 years, it's now one of the most expensive cities between the coasts, and has some of the fastest growing rents in North America. To live downtown really isn't possibly anymore unless you make over $120,000, so unless you work for Google good luck - you'll be living out in Georgetown and driving an hour + to get to all those cool bars downtown. Even many of their 'cool' areas are being over run by these high priced condos/apartments - case in point is Rainey Street. They've had several instances where music venues are being bulldozed to make way for new developments and replaced with Shack Shakes, etc too.

Now is it doom and gloom for Austin? Of course not, and Austin has gotten a lot more dense and has some very amazing urban projects going on currently and has some pretty amazing events like SXSW, races at CoA, etc. It has some very major glaring issues that could very well cause it to have an exodus of creatives just like you've seen in other high priced and inaccessible areas of the U.S. That presents major opportunities for cities like Tulsa that are seeing some very interesting growth in their art and music scenes. There's not another city our size who can claim comparable scenes with venues like the BOK, Cain's, Brady, Woody Guthrie Center, Bob Dylan Collection, AHHA, Philbrook, Gilcrease, The Gathering Place, Turkey Mountain, River Trails, etc... I don't think OKC, Des Moines, Omaha, Little Rock, Tucson, Albuquerque, Birmingham can compete with Tulsa in that regard and that's our true competition in terms of positioning ourself to become a 'it' city.

If you are really unhappy with the progress Tulsa has made in the last few year, do one thing: VOTE in June and make sure Dewey is not the mayor again. He has fought tooth and nail against transit and other things that would help push Tulsa into the next generation.

I can definitely agree with this.  Not sold on GT Bynum but anything is better than Dewey.  Progressive city leadership has been something Tulsa has really missed.

Catching up on this thread after a couple of days supporting out of town kids' sports, and an old James Mcmurtry tune keeps popping up in my head.   From "I'm Not From Here":

I'm not from here
but people tell me
it's not like it used to be
they say I should have been here
back about ten years
before it got ruined by folks like me


The song, if anyone's interested:  https://youtu.be/agVIN8UIRsg

Austin public transit is not deporable at all. We used it all week. It is much, much better than Charlotte. Do you people actually visit these towns you have opinions on?

EDIT: Sorry if that sounds prickish but I have experience on both systems recently. The bus system in Austin blows the one in Charlotte out of the water.

Ok, so when was the last time you were in Charlotte? Lets ignore the fact that comparing Austin to Portland, Salt Lake City, or Denver, Austin's system is deplorable.

Austin's "BRT" line you are talking about has a daily ridership of 9,554. Austin's commuter rail (which in my opinion sucks for a host of reason) has a daily ridership of 4,242. Charlotte's LRT line has a daily ridership of 15,800 carries, more than that BRT line and commuter rail line combined. That doesn't even take into account the new streetcar line in Charlotte or the expansions to the LRT systems they have planned. They also have a "BRT" line too called the Sprinter. The fact that Charlotte has a functioning LRT line, Streetcar, and BRT line puts it on a level way above Austin.

Charlotte also just was awarded $25 million to jumpstart Gateway Station from the Fed's. Their plans are to model it after Union Station in Denver: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article74368437.html (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article74368437.html)

Yes - I do visit all these cities, and I lived on the east coast in DC for several years. I also have spent the last 6 years of my life researching transit systems in North America and commercial real estate markets/development in these cities. I've even been in the WSJ talking about TOD and transit systems because of this research. Real estate and infrastructure are my big passions in life, so when I talk about it I'm not just shooting off the hip - it's generally an opinion thats based off personal experiences and facts. Maybe you had a bad experience with transit in Charlotte? But there's just no way to look at it and say Austin's transit system is even remotely in the same league - they can't even fund the idea of LRT or Streetcars in Austin, let alone have a regional plan for different mass transit routes. They are a decade behind Charlotte in transit planning and implementation.

I used to live in Austin and have taken the BRT and city bus several times.  Here's my take:

The Austin BRT works great if you are using it during off-peak hours.  On the weekends or after evening rush hour it zips you around fine.

The problem is that the BRT sits in the same mixed traffic as personal cars.  Anyone who has lived in Austin knows that the city has crushing, crippling rush hour traffic where it can take you an hour to go a few miles.  The bus crawls along at a snails pace just like a car.

Having lived in Chicago and Boston the MAIN benefit for choice transit commuters is avoiding horrific rush hour congestion.  In those cities even the rich take transit because it has dedicated right of ways and zips along pretty well while the roadways are crawling.  In Austin, the buses are in the same traffic as everyone else which pretty much eliminates their appeal for choice riders.  This is something Tulsa's new BRT system is going to have to grapple with and is the #1 reason why BRT, which is so great in theory, oftentimes underperforms in the United States.  Removing a lane of traffic for a dedicated busway is so politically untenable outside of Portland that BRT systems end up just becoming a fancy version of the regular bus. 

At the end of the day people make travel decisions based on microeconomics.  Make the cost of transit (time, not just $) less than the cost of driving.  If you're doing it with BRT then it means you really need to make them operate like trains with all the BRT bells and whistles that you very rarely see in the USA - prepaid boarding, attractive stations, dedicated right of ways, etc. 

I saw BRT in Mexico City and it had all of that.  It was petty amazing to see.  The bus pulled up and people exited/entered en masse, just like a subway car, and the bus was continuing on its way in 15-20 seconds.

LandArchPoke - I was in Charlotte earlier this year. I'm from North Carolina.

Maybe it's just a grass is always greener on the other side kind of thing since you grew up in NC? My statement above still stands in terms of my reasoning behind my statements.

Honestly might be a better discussion for another thread. I've used both public transit systems and from my experience Austin was much better. The big difference is the BRT in Austin is surrounded by a much better Metro Bus system and biking is much more prevalent in Austin.

12 years since you have been there....

And how can that possibly relate to anything going on today?  That's like saying there is nothing going on in downtown Tulsa - 'cause I was there in 2004....  improvements AND declines can be massive in 12 years.

I was in Austin in early 2000's, too - used rental car and spent most of time out in Round Rock.  It too has had huge changes in the time since. 

Growth for growth's sake - the very definition of cancer.

Because I returned there last week when I was posting in this thread...

Ahhh...and it was just as good as you remembered it?  (I definitely want to go back and visit just to see how things are now....)

Did you rent a car for transportation?   Or have your own?