The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=549-IKEA-considering-Oklahoma-City

The ultimate big box store?  
I'm not a fan of big-box stores, but it's safe to say that'd definitely be a win for OKC

From a retail perspective it makes way more sense for ikea to choose Tulsa. However ikea is not likely to choose Oklahoma at all and this all a rumor. DFW has 3 ikeas within a 3 hour drive for OKC and 4 hour for Tulsa in addition to KC 4 hours. It makes no business sense for ikea to build in Oklahoma. Before everyone yells at me, I was born and raised in Tulsa and lived in OKC for years. Now live in Texas. I am always rooting for Tulsa. OKC sucks. Lol

You have to wonder if the pull Tulsa receives from NW Arkansas will play any part in this (if actually true) and any future retail announcements.  People there historically have driven the 2 hours on Hwy 412 for shopping (less so now that they have a lot of the same stores) but definitely for concerts and also for Southwest flights from TIA.  NW Ark. is a metro of 525,000 with a moderate growth rate and decent average incomes due to the Wal-Mart/Tyson corporate HQ's.  Combine that with Tulsa's CSA population and that's 1.7 million, and probably around 2 million with the rest of NE Oklahoma included.

I don't believe this rumor. Ikea has stopped/canceled four planned expansions in the last few months in metros larger than Oklahoma City saying they are changing their focus from suburban areas and want to focus on stores in urban centers and online sales. They canceled planned stores in Raleigh-Durham, Nashville and one Glendale, AZ, which would have been a second Phoenix store and IKEA ended negations for a Cleveland area store. What's more, tariffs are hitting retail construction hard.

North Oklahoma City is in no way an "urban center" and OKC doesn't have the retail market of any of those cities. It makes no sense.

I'm not buying that they want to build in "urban centers."  They have been extraordinarily successful with their current model, massive big box in the suburbs with an ocean of parking.  They won't get that in urban centers.  Urban dwellers will go to IKEA as a destination.  That northern part of OKC fits perfectly with what they've been doing.  If they are not building there it would likely be because it's not a big enough metro and statistics probably show that Oklahomans for the most part will go to Dallas or Kansas City for IKEA.  No real need to build in OKC or Tulsa.

Quote from: DowntownDan on October 08, 2018, 03:40:02 PM
I'm not buying that they want to build in "urban centers."  They have been extraordinarily successful with their current model, massive big box in the suburbs with an ocean of parking.  They won't get that in urban centers.  Urban dwellers will go to IKEA as a destination.  That northern part of OKC fits perfectly with what they've been doing.  If they are not building there it would likely be because it's not a big enough metro and statistics probably show that Oklahomans for the most part will go to Dallas or Kansas City for IKEA.  No real need to build in OKC or Tulsa.

I'm not making this up. City Centers is where they are going:

Quote
Last year, Ikea saw a 40 percent drop in U.K. profits, prompting the Swedish retailer to rethink its strategy. Instead of building big-box hubs on the outskirts of cities (the company has pulled the plug on what would have been the second largest Ikea location in the U.K.), Ikea will begin rolling out a series of smaller retail experiences in the heart of urban centers

https://www.curbed.com/2018/7/25/17611610/ikea-small-format-stores-london-uk

And they aren't doing that well:

Quote
Despite its fervent fan base, the company has seen declines in revenue growth and net income in recent years. Sales increased by more than 8% in 2015 and 2016, but fell short of 4% growth in the most recent two years, according to IBISWorld. Meanwhile, net income fell by more than 40% in the last fiscal year.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/06/01/ikea-axes-three-new-u-s-stores-looks-beef-up-online-sales/662598002/

And this:

Quote
IKEA said pulling out of the the Cary location was not about any deficiencies in the town, but was part of a corporate strategy to curtail some of its expansion projects and focus on other initiatives.

"Over the last year, IKEA U.S. has been on a journey to expand our multi-channel shopping experience with new retail locations, enhanced technology and greater accessibility to meet today's customers where they are in today's fast-changing retail environment," Ikea said in a statement to The News & Observer. "As part of this journey, we have challenged ourselves to re-evaluate some of our upcoming expansion projects. While this is an extremely difficult decision, we will not be moving forward with our plans to build a store in Cary, N.C. We appreciate the outpouring of support and excitement that our fans have expressed, and we are disappointed that we will not be able to physically join the vibrant Cary community. "

A spokeswoman said the company wasn't in a position to disclose whether other expansion projects will proceed or not, some of which are already under development. Last year, Ikea announced it would open stores in Nashville and in Glendale, Arizona, in 2020.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article211750844.html

And Nashville and Glendale ALSO were canceled, with the same quote:
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/2018/05/25/ikea-cancels-plans-build-glendale-store/646669002/
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2018/05/31/antioch-nashville-plans-move-past-ikea-loss-business/655317002/

And stopped negotiations with a suburban Cleveland site:
https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2018/09/14/that-garfield-heights-ikea-aint-happening

IKEA has changed what they have been doing. North Oklahoma City is the old model.

I like Ikea and have used it probably more than most Oklahomans and I get the hype. However, they've made it where shipping is pretty affordable (Was ~$9 for my last online order and ~$90 when I ordered a pallet or two of cabinets). What's so great about having an international company move in and siphon profits from Oklahoma to another country? Sure the alternatives are probably Target/Amazon/Walmart but at least those are American companies.

I get having one a bit closer would be more convenient for Oklahomans, but with the new shipping rates, it's much easier to order online. If you go into an Ikea, you're bound to buy more than you planned and get some things you don't really need. That's how they thrive. It can be a retail boost for the area, but I've been to a couple Ikeas that were basically parking lot ghost towns with basically nothing else close enough to benefit (and besides, it takes so long, it's a 1-stop trip for the majority of people going there).

Ikea was really great 8+ years ago when there really wasn't much competition in terms of prices and especially style, but other places have really upped their game along with online options driving down prices/styles available. Plus the Ikea-look is pretty recognizable and not so great or cutting edge anymore. Basically make anything into almost perfect square shapes or add clean radii on edges. Modern!

IKEA also caters to many college students. OKC is very centrally located with 3 of the state's largest universities (OU, OSU, UCO) close; also it's close enough to serve Tulsa.  Now this is by no means a done deal.   As one poster mentioned; they (IKEA) have been known to not follow through or abandoned interest.

Either city (Tulsa or Oklahoma City) would be situated for one city to pull customers from the other;  location probably will be a factor IF IKEA locates in Oklahoma. 

Quote from: Laramie on October 09, 2018, 02:51:49 PM
IKEA also caters to many college students. OKC is very centrally located with 3 of the state's largest universities (OU, OSU, UCO) close; also it's close enough to serve Tulsa.  Now this is by no means a done deal.   As one poster mentioned; they (IKEA) have been known to not follow through or abandoned interest.

Either city (Tulsa or Oklahoma City) would be situated for one city to pull customers from the other;  location probably will be a factor IF IKEA locates in Oklahoma. 

Ikea caters mostly to young professional, 20-something to 30-somethings, and young families. Their customer base is mostly 22-34 year olds. I don't think being close to colleges is that important as college students have far less disposable income and much lower need for furniture than young professionals. Tulsa and OKC are likely pretty even in terms of number 22-34 year olds within a 2 hour drive. OKC metro will have significantly more but Tulsa is much better situated to service NWA (including UofA) plus ORU, TU, RSU, NSU's, OSU's, et al and is the home metro of a large number of OU students too. They definitely need that group to be customers after graduation but Tulsa seems to cover a bit more ground regionally.

Based on Ikea cutting back and boost in online supply, I don't see them adding a location in Oklahoma. There's always a rumor about this place going in that place (See the Google Fiber rumors coming to Oklahoma).

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 09, 2018, 03:35:04 PM
Ikea caters mostly to young professional, 20-something to 30-somethings, and young families. Their customer base is mostly 22-34 year olds. I don't think being close to colleges is that important as college students have far less disposable income and much lower need for furniture than young professionals. Tulsa and OKC are likely pretty even in terms of number 22-34 year olds within a 2 hour drive. OKC metro will have significantly more but Tulsa is much better situated to service NWA (including UofA) plus ORU, TU, RSU, NSU's, OSU's, et al and is the home metro of a large number of OU students too. They definitely need that group to be customers after graduation but Tulsa seems to cover a bit more ground regionally.

Based on Ikea cutting back and boost in online supply, I don't see them adding a location in Oklahoma. There's always a rumor about this place going in that place (See the Google Fiber rumors coming to Oklahoma).

We can all make a case for IKEA to be in either city.  Right now their eyes are on OKC.  I'm not a fan of online purchases for certain items--it makes a great difference when you visit the showrooms, see, feel, smell & touch the products you plan to purchase--that's the old school in me.

Tulsa is poised for growth; possesses many quality retail stores.   OKC lately has an influx of retail & distribution planned or currently under construction; the difference, OKC's growth rate has made it attractive to many establishments that chose Tulsa and bypassed OKC earlier.

The Memorial Road corridor in far north area of OKC continues to be the focus of many big-box retailers and new-to-market chains.

I moved back to OKC from the Metroplex (DFW) in the late 90s, my visits to Tulsa (son lives in & loves T-town) have always been pleasant.  Tulsa is on the verge with a lot of impressive progress; however if you haven't been to OKC of late it's a totally different place than the late 80s & early 90s. OKC's central location and access from I-35/I-40 (Americas crossroads) has been a plus for a city positioned near Wichita & Tulsa.  Oklahoma City is undergoing a complete $1.2 general obligation bonds/MAPS initative package to upgrade/replace roads, bridges, parks, Hall of Fame Stadium, Chesapeake Energy Arena; this is exclusive of the current $777 million of MAPS III projects under construction which includes a new convention center, downtown park,  Streetcar and Riversport Rapids rafting facility.  You'll see a $2 billion economic boost ($987 bonds/$240 million MAPS initiative) that doesn't include private development planned.

Again, IKEA is considering OKC; you bet they didn't overlook Tulsa.

Quote from: Laramie on October 10, 2018, 01:33:05 PM

Again, IKEA is considering OKC; you bet they didn't overlook Tulsa.

They aren't considering OKC: http://www.oudaily.com/news/ikea-calls-report-they-are-coming-to-okc-area-purely/article_c8d150a4-c7eb-11e8-a929-63fdd13877e5.html (http://www.oudaily.com/news/ikea-calls-report-they-are-coming-to-okc-area-purely/article_c8d150a4-c7eb-11e8-a929-63fdd13877e5.html)

Quotea representative of the Swedish-based chain has refuted this claim.

They aren't considering either place, but most all arguments for OKC Ikea location make as much/more sense when applied to Tulsa. OKC isn't close to any major metro areas that aren't also close to Tulsa (For example, Wichita is about as far from Tulsa/OKC) while Tulsa also has NW Arkansas and it's nearly 1 million inhabitants, not to mention SW Missouri that's far more populated than western Oklahoma. There are around 3.5 million within 2.5 hour drive of Tulsa compared to about 2.2 million for OKC.

OKCTalk forum has a 'Tulsa & suburbs development' thread.   Would be nice if any TulsaNow posters could contribute to this thread so as to keep us informed of the many projects planned for the Tulsa community.

OKCTalk (Tulsa & Suburbs):  http://www.okctalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=154 (http://www.okctalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=154)


Tulsa & Oklahoma City are our state's two major MSAs, it's exciting to see all the growth planned; also equally disappointing to see the projects and developments that didn't mature to full fruition.

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 10, 2018, 02:19:32 PM
They aren't considering OKC: http://www.oudaily.com/news/ikea-calls-report-they-are-coming-to-okc-area-purely/article_c8d150a4-c7eb-11e8-a929-63fdd13877e5.html (http://www.oudaily.com/news/ikea-calls-report-they-are-coming-to-okc-area-purely/article_c8d150a4-c7eb-11e8-a929-63fdd13877e5.html)


They aren't considering either place, but most all arguments for OKC Ikea location make as much/more sense when applied to Tulsa. OKC isn't close to any major metro areas that aren't also close to Tulsa (For example, Wichita is about as far from Tulsa/OKC) while Tulsa also has NW Arkansas and it's nearly 1 million inhabitants, not to mention SW Missouri that's far more populated than western Oklahoma. There are around 3.5 million within 2.5 hour drive of Tulsa compared to about 2.2 million for OKC.

Thanks for the updated info & source; the source cited sounds very credible, another disappointment...

Quote from: Laramie on October 10, 2018, 02:41:53 PM
OKCTalk forum has a 'Tulsa & suburbs development' thread.   Would be nice if any TulsaNow posters could contribute to this thread so as to keep us informed of the many projects planned for the Tulsa community.

OKCTalk (Tulsa & Suburbs):  http://www.okctalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=154 (http://www.okctalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=154)

Tulsa & Oklahoma City are our state's two major MSAs, it's exciting to see all the growth planned; also equally disappointing to see the projects and developments that didn't mature to full fruition.

Thanks for sharing that! Didn't realize there was a board about Tulsa developments over there. Good to see that some in OKC are informed about Tulsa developments. There was a lot of chatter about how much better and more advanced OKC is when the "Ikea to OKC" rumor started (i.e: https://old.reddit.com/r/oklahoma/comments/9lcx5e/ikea_considering_oklahoma_city/e765878/ (https://old.reddit.com/r/oklahoma/comments/9lcx5e/ikea_considering_oklahoma_city/e765878/)) and seems like most in OKC don't understand what all is going on in Tulsa (We had CostCo yeard before OKC is getting one, Tulsa has an Urban Outfitters, had uber/lyft first and has a Trader Joe's. The recently completed Gathering Place is the best most-expensive city park in the United States.).

Tulsa was behind in the urban revival it was late to add taxes to pay for improvements and also because most of Tulsa's midtown areas (Like Maple Ridge, Brookside, Florence Park, Yorktown, Utica Square, Cherry Street, Ranch Acres, Bryan Mahr, etc) were thriving throughout its history so there was nothing to renew. OKC's urban core was pretty much gutted economically for several decades so it had nowhere to go but up with ample cheap land/houses for developers. Commercial/Industrial land in the core of Tulsa remained pretty pricey and industry continued pretty thoroughly in a lot of the run down neighborhoods (although housing in a few inner-city neighborhoods got really cheap for a while). Now its especially tough to buy anything except at the "developer price".

OKC was smart getting a head start in urban development but Tulsa has definitely caught up with better more complete urban districts that are surrounded by very nice housing. OKC has nice urban areas too and larger more-developed downtown. Tulsa has nothing like Bricktown, but has nicer high-end urban districts thanks to rich folk sticking around since the homes were first built (Cherry Street, Utica Square, Maple Ridge/Brookside). Compare the Tulsa Arts District to Bricktown to see the difference between Tulsa and OKC overall (Generic/Corporate/kitschy/Family-friendly/suburban vs Unique/Organic/Improvised/Artsy/local). Both are nice and I know OKC has plenty of more artsy areas like Paseo, but so does Tulsa (Pearl and Whittier Districts). I've been to OKC a number of times throughout my life. Cool to see the changes, but also glad that Tulsa is holding its own now so that there's not as much of a need to go visit OKC.

Quote
IKEA product placement specialist, has informed The Daily in an email that though IKEA is always looking for new opportunities to expand, they have not announced plans for a store in Oklahoma City and that it is "purely speculation."

That sounds less like a denial and more like a  "we haven't announced anything yet".

the quote is definitely not a "IKEA has no plans to enter the OKC market" level refutation

and "product placement specialist"??

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 10, 2018, 03:23:51 PM
Thanks for sharing that! Didn't realize there was a board about Tulsa developments over there. Good to see that some in OKC are informed about Tulsa developments. There was a lot of chatter about how much better and more advanced OKC is when the "Ikea to OKC" rumor started (i.e: https://old.reddit.com/r/oklahoma/comments/9lcx5e/ikea_considering_oklahoma_city/e765878/ (https://old.reddit.com/r/oklahoma/comments/9lcx5e/ikea_considering_oklahoma_city/e765878/)) and seems like most in OKC don't understand what all is going on in Tulsa (We had CostCo yeard before OKC is getting one, Tulsa has an Urban Outfitters, had uber/lyft first and has a Trader Joe's. The recently completed Gathering Place is the best most-expensive city park in the United States.).

Tulsa was behind in the urban revival it was late to add taxes to pay for improvements and also because most of Tulsa's midtown areas (Like Maple Ridge, Brookside, Florence Park, Yorktown, Utica Square, Cherry Street, Ranch Acres, Bryan Mahr, etc) were thriving throughout its history so there was nothing to renew. OKC's urban core was pretty much gutted economically for several decades so it had nowhere to go but up with ample cheap land/houses for developers. Commercial/Industrial land in the core of Tulsa remained pretty pricey and industry continued pretty thoroughly in a lot of the run down neighborhoods (although housing in a few inner-city neighborhoods got really cheap for a while). Now its especially tough to buy anything except at the "developer price".

OKC was smart getting a head start in urban development but Tulsa has definitely caught up with better more complete urban districts that are surrounded by very nice housing. OKC has nice urban areas too and larger more-developed downtown. Tulsa has nothing like Bricktown, but has nicer high-end urban districts thanks to rich folk sticking around since the homes were first built (Cherry Street, Utica Square, Maple Ridge/Brookside). Compare the Tulsa Arts District to Bricktown to see the difference between Tulsa and OKC overall (Generic/Corporate/kitschy/Family-friendly/suburban vs Unique/Organic/Improvised/Artsy/local). Both are nice and I know OKC has plenty of more artsy areas like Paseo, but so does Tulsa (Pearl and Whittier Districts). I've been to OKC a number of times throughout my life. Cool to see the changes, but also glad that Tulsa is holding its own now so that there's not as much of a need to go visit OKC.

Oh so true!  

What results in the success in all of the developments in both our major cities; we become victims of successful progress.  You are spot on about the inexpensive land that laid barren for decades in OKC; development helped to spur more development.

Brighter days are ahead for OKC-TUL; moderate growth does give us ample time to do strategic planning not brought on by hast.  It does give you a chance to re-calibrate.

Tulsa Vision 2025 & OKC MAPS & general obligation bonds are voter approved initiatives that will reap future benefits for both cities.  

Costco was actually looking at OKC first.  Also, Lyft and Uber where in OKC first.  Not that it matters, but when you state such false hoods and then compare everything in Tulsa to Bricktown, you look like an idiot not mentioning Midtown OKC, Uptown, Automobile Alley, The Plaza and Western Ave.   I live in Tulsa and spend a lot of time in OKC and you are coming off dumb.   We should be spending more time focusing on population growth, sales tax growth, and attracting large employers like OKC instead of wondering why a larger city may  get an IKEA first.  We worry to much about losing our self perceived cool factor that we forget about the real important things that create a vibrant city.   What will attract sales tax growth, population growth and large employers?   We need to get our head of the sand and work harder to compete with OKC.   Sadly,  We are still pretty far behind.  What would we do with out Mr. Kaiser?  He has single handily been responsible for a significant portion of investment in this city (Guthrie Green, Brady District, Gathering Place and Etc.).  All of us need to do more to make this city where OTHERS want to live.  Who gives a crap about IKEA?  How about a temporary tax for city schools and public transportation?  How about a dedicated funding source for police and fire?  How about funding a new convention center and attracting a convention hotel?  How about a dedicated funding source for our aging zoo?  Think big!

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on October 11, 2018, 01:44:19 AM
Costco was actually looking at OKC first.  Also, Lyft and Uber where in OKC first.  Not that it matters, but when you state such false hoods and then compare everything in Tulsa to Bricktown, you look like an idiot not mentioning Midtown OKC, Uptown, Automobile Alley, The Plaza and Western Ave. 

Who cares if Costco considered OKC first? They built in Tulsa years prior. Uber was in Tulsa first, in early 2014. It came to OKC later in 2014.


I didn't compare "everything" in Tulsa to Bricktown. I compared the largest urban district in each city to each other. I know of those other districts in OKC and I've been to all of them multiple times. I specifically mentioned OKC has plenty of other urban/arts districts. I didn't mention Blue Dome, SOBO, East Village or Deco Districts in Tulsa either.

The residential areas around the core OKC districts aren't quite as nice or filled in as Tulsa's Brookside or Cherry Street. OKC had much more severe white-flight and they didn't maintain the city core as much in earlier decades so it was much more ripe for rebuilding and they have done that pretty well, but plenty of junky houses and empty lots in their core urban areas. Mesta Park is an exception and Midtown had huge improvements the last decade and is really filling in.

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on October 11, 2018, 01:44:19 AM
Costco was actually looking at OKC first.  Also, Lyft and Uber where in OKC first.  Not that it matters, but when you state such false hoods and then compare everything in Tulsa to Bricktown, you look like an idiot not mentioning Midtown OKC, Uptown, Automobile Alley, The Plaza and Western Ave.   I live in Tulsa and spend a lot of time in OKC and you are coming off dumb.   We should be spending more time focusing on population growth, sales tax growth, and attracting large employers like OKC instead of wondering why a larger city may  get an IKEA first.  We worry to much about losing our self perceived cool factor that we forget about the real important things that create a vibrant city.   What will attract sales tax growth, population growth and large employers?   We need to get our head of the sand and work harder to compete with OKC.   Sadly,  We are still pretty far behind.  What would we do with out Mr. Kaiser?  He has single handily been responsible for a significant portion of investment in this city (Guthrie Green, Brady District, Gathering Place and Etc.).  All of us need to do more to make this city where OTHERS want to live.  Who gives a crap about IKEA?  How about a temporary tax for city schools and public transportation?  How about a dedicated funding source for police and fire?  How about funding a new convention center and attracting a convention hotel?  How about a dedicated funding source for our aging zoo?  Think big!

Your first post and you have called a long-time member of the forum an idiot and dumb. Please be more respectful.

m

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on October 11, 2018, 01:44:19 AM
How about a temporary tax for city schools and public transportation?  How about a dedicated funding source for police and fire?  How about funding a new convention center and attracting a convention hotel?  How about a dedicated funding source for our aging zoo?  Think big!

Some of these items were part of the latest Vision Tulsa sales tax extension.  And the convention center has been expanded and renovated, including a current project to replace the arena.  A convention hotel is planned as part of the Arena District master plan.

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on October 11, 2018, 01:44:19 AM
Costco was actually looking at OKC first.  Also, Lyft and Uber where in OKC first.  Not that it matters, but when you state such false hoods and then compare everything in Tulsa to Bricktown, you look like an idiot not mentioning Midtown OKC, Uptown, Automobile Alley, The Plaza and Western Ave.   I live in Tulsa and spend a lot of time in OKC and you are coming off dumb.   We should be spending more time focusing on population growth, sales tax growth, and attracting large employers like OKC instead of wondering why a larger city may  get an IKEA first.  We worry to much about losing our self perceived cool factor that we forget about the real important things that create a vibrant city.   What will attract sales tax growth, population growth and large employers?   We need to get our head of the sand and work harder to compete with OKC.   Sadly,  We are still pretty far behind.  What would we do with out Mr. Kaiser?  He has single handily been responsible for a significant portion of investment in this city (Guthrie Green, Brady District, Gathering Place and Etc.).  All of us need to do more to make this city where OTHERS want to live.  Who gives a crap about IKEA?  How about a temporary tax for city schools and public transportation?  How about a dedicated funding source for police and fire?  How about funding a new convention center and attracting a convention hotel?  How about a dedicated funding source for our aging zoo?  Think big!

Awesome first post.

I'm not buying you live in Tulsa. The ONE post that gets you to register an account is this Ikea thread? And you know nothing about Tulsa? See, two years ago the last Vision Tulsa vote and other recent bond issues have addressed basically every point you bring up.

First, Tulsa schools are not in the physical condition that OKC schools were/are as there have been regular bond issues to address building needs. The last one three years ago was almost a half billion dollar bond issue.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/education/tulsa-voters-approve-record-setting-school-bond-package/article_310450cd-146c-58f1-bc07-af723480ef0b.html
https://www.tulsaschools.org/connect-with-us/partner-with-us/bond-status-bids-proposals

I wish the Vision plan had more for public transportation, but it did start a permanent tax for public transit and funds a BRT line along Peoria and a transit hub.
https://ktul.com/news/local/new-bus-rapid-transit-service-coming-to-peoria-avenue

The Vision plan had a very large permanent tax for police and fire, more than $250 million, and adds 225 police and fire personnel
https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-vision-tax-working-as-tulsa-police-fire/article_aba6c883-efe2-5411-89cf-7382882fb78a.html

The last Vision plan also included  renovations to the convention center, on top of funds from Vision 2025. With $55 million from Vision the city has started removing the old arena and will be replacing it with new 40,000 square foot ballroom and new three story entrance to the convention center. This work goes with all the Vision 2025 work on the convention center from 10 years ago. Tulsa doesn't need a "new" convention center. As for a hotel, the convention center already has a convention hotel (The DoubleTree) along with two other onsite hotels (aLoft and Best Western). Those three hotels have 700 rooms and already exist. And plans have been floated THIS WEEK for another larger convention hotel as part of a huge new plan for the area around the arena. It's been all over the news, and talked about here. Funny how you missed that but got outraged over an IKEA post that is nonsense anyway. There is no IKEA going to either city. 
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/million-overhaul-of-cox-business-center-to-begin-this-week/article_42819c32-1457-59be-8b70-a671d1bf4a0f.html
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/final-public-meeting-on-arena-district-master-plan-set-for/article_bc40eb80-3859-5eb2-bddd-03cb9e2f1e7e.html

Didn't intended to ruffle feathers.  I had a little Vino last night and went "hard" in the paint.   I am from OKC originally but lived here for 12 years 2001-2013 before my job took me back to OKC in 2013 and I am now back again as of June of this year.   I have read this thread since 2008 and OKC Talk as well but never post.  I do spend a lot of time in OKC and have close friends and family in both towns.  I LOVE both cities very much.   This thread hit me the wrong way as I was just recently speaking about this with some of my Tulsa associates in the film industry and we were having a lively discussion.   

Several of my hipster Tulsa friends were hung up on the  psychological impact of having IKEA in OKC but not Tulsa.  My point was it shouldn't matter either way.  Both cities should focus on creating a vibrant city where we retain our local talent and ATTRACT others to live here.  My definition of a vibrant city has a lot more to do with the three points I tried to make (sales tax growth, population growth,  and employer attraction/growth) than perception.  I believe we have a long way to go to narrow the gap with OKC in this regard. 

I work in commercial finance across the state and it frustrates me that lots of Tulsans I encounter are caught up with perception.  Both cities are great.  Let's appreciate them both.   

I apologize TulsaGoldenHurriCAN for insulting you and anyone else.  I will not type and drink the next time.

I might also add that Pete at OKC Talk has been highly accurate with his reporting and I believe IKEA is in talks with OKC Regarding the Chisholm Creek location.   However, it is a long way away from abeing a done deal.  Just consider the initial long term talks with Costco back in 2012-2013.   I will also note I have first hand knowledge that IKEA has been sniffing around OKC for several years and prior to the Chisholm Creek site they were looking at an urban site in OKC.

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on October 11, 2018, 04:35:24 PM
I might also add that Pete at OKC Talk has been highly accurate with his reporting and I believe IKEA is in talks with OKC Regarding the Chisholm Creek location.   However, it is a long way away from abeing a done deal.  Just consider the initial long term talks with Costco back in 2012-2013.   I will also note I have first hand knowledge that IKEA has been sniffing around OKC for several years and prior to the Chisholm Creek site they were looking at an urban site in OKC.

Sounds like Chisholm Creek might be wanting to try to create interest in Ikea, but it certainly doesn't seem like Ikea is interested in the United States, much less OKC. Ikea's new US stores announced for 2018:

Dublin, CA (Bay Area) Would be a third store in a metro area of 8.6 million - Not canceled but also not started
Ft Worth - Would be a third store in a metro of 7.4 million - Canceled
Glendale, AZ (Phoenix) Would be a second store in a metro of 4.5 million - Canceled
Cleveland - Would be first store in a metro of 3.5 million - Canceled
Broomfield, CO (Denver) Would be a second store in a metro of 3.3 million - Indefinitely delayed
Cary, ND (Raleigh-Durham) Would be first store in a metro of 2.1 million - Canceled
Nashville - Would be first store in a metro of 1.9 million - Canceled


The ONLY store they seem to be moving forward with in the US that wasn't already under construction as of May 2018 is the East Bay store in Dublin, CA, which has also not started construction.

They have nothing else announced for the US. At all. They list no US stores on their website as coming soon.

Ikea's corporate newsfeed for new US locations before 2018 posted regularly multiple times a month. They have two posts in all of 2018 and nothing since May.

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/about_ikea/newsroom/expansion_plans?pageNumber=2

Color me skeptical because Ikea certainly doesn't seem to be expanding the United States. They have canceled stores in much larger, wealthier and faster growing metros than Tulsa (1.1 million) or OKC (1.4 million).

Why do I get the feeling that this is gonna be the same kind of "all hype, no substance" thing as when Krispy Kreme came to town??   

I looked at all the pics of the Renton, WA store...I guess I don't appreciate "just stuff" as much as many do.

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on October 11, 2018, 04:35:24 PM
I might also add that Pete at OKC Talk has been highly accurate with his reporting and I believe IKEA is in talks with OKC Regarding the Chisholm Creek location.   However, it is a long way away from abeing a done deal.  Just consider the initial long term talks with Costco back in 2012-2013.   I will also note I have first hand knowledge that IKEA has been sniffing around OKC for several years and prior to the Chisholm Creek site they were looking at an urban site in OKC.

I may have to go to OKC Talk...they have "Eric"...  seems like a person in search of enlightenment.

And GaryOKC6... flat out lying, so I know he is a Trump Minion.   Saying his 401k has nearly doubled since Trump took office.   If it was strictly Amazon or Tesla, maybe yeah.  But no 401 is gonna have just those two options.  

Could be interesting as much time as I spend there.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 11, 2018, 09:11:15 PM

I may have to go to OKC Talk...they have "Eric"...  seems like a person in search of enlightenment.

And GaryOKC6... flat out lying, so I know he is a Trump Minion.   Saying his 401k has nearly doubled since Trump took office.   If it was strictly Amazon or Tesla, maybe yeah.  But no 401 is gonna have just those two options.  

Could be interesting as much time as I spend there.

Heironymouspasparagus you know "Eric" well, he's known as "erfalf" over here.

Swake - Not to be a d**k, but you are incorrect.  Uber was in OKC first.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/technology/app-based-ride-service-uber-arrives-in-tulsa/article_40026e93-3a86-5928-8320-7611e4a06771.html

https://newsok.com/article/3895606/get-app-y-new-uber-car-service-arrives-in-oklahoma-city


Lyft launches at same time in both cities.

https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/24/lyft-24-new-cities/

https://newsok.com/article/4568534/lyft-joins-uber-in-oklahoma-city-as-officials-consider-regulating-ridesharing

TIME OUT:

From Mayor Holt on Twitter:   https://twitter.com/davidfholt/status/1050408576982880257

https://youtu.be/iEw1E_UtjjE

Welcome your ideas...

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on October 12, 2018, 10:11:10 AM
Swake - Not to be a d**k, but you are incorrect.  Uber was in OKC first.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/technology/app-based-ride-service-uber-arrives-in-tulsa/article_40026e93-3a86-5928-8320-7611e4a06771.html

https://newsok.com/article/3895606/get-app-y-new-uber-car-service-arrives-in-oklahoma-city


Lyft launches at same time in both cities.

https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/24/lyft-24-new-cities/

https://newsok.com/article/4568534/lyft-joins-uber-in-oklahoma-city-as-officials-consider-regulating-ridesharing

Not to be a "d**k", but when did I mention Uber at all?

Quote from: swake on October 12, 2018, 10:29:44 AM
Not to be a "d**k", but when did I mention Uber at all?

Going forward, can we begin all our posts with "not to be a d**k"?

Rename it "Tulsa-not-to-be-a-d**k-Now"

Quote from: Townsend on October 12, 2018, 11:08:58 AM
Going forward, can we begin all our posts with "not to be a d**k"?

Rename it "Tulsa-not-to-be-a-d**k-Now"

It's probably about as polite as you can possibly expect in the age of Trump.

Swake - Apologies.   It was Hurricane that mentioned Uber.   

For the record, I am a Democrat😀

Quote from: swake on October 11, 2018, 10:09:07 PM
Heironymouspasparagus you know "Eric" well, he's known as "erfalf" over here.

Ahhhh...  alrighty, then... let the games begin!  Maybe I should get a different name there.  Something a little easier to type in every time I sign on! 

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on October 12, 2018, 02:30:31 PM
Swake - Apologies.   It was Hurricane that mentioned Uber.   

For the record, I am a Democrat😀

So, not a member of any organized political party, huh??

Quote from: Townsend on October 12, 2018, 11:08:58 AM
Going forward, can we begin all our posts with "not to be a d**k"?

Rename it "Tulsa-not-to-be-a-d**k-Now"

Ok, so I need some clarification...if I say that at beginning of posts, can I actually still be one like Trump is/does all the time??

Whether or not the IKEA rumor is dead; we have seen some recent companies/corporations land in midtown--north of DT.  One in particular, Global Payments (Atlanta) cited the Streetcar route and YMCA Parking Garage (pic, bottom left) as reasons for expansion/relocation of its North American HQ to OKC.  

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/heartland072718d.jpg)

They plan to bring 345 - 600+ jobs to the area with an average salary $59,172; some of these jobs will include relocations from Atlanta.  Oklahoma City council did approve $1 million in incentives to support construction.

Don't know the impact of our recent liquor laws or medical marijuana; however some think it's an attitude shift in Oklahoma that will eventually benefit TULSA-OKC.

Payment processor firm could bring more than 600 jobs to planned downtown OKC office:  https://newsok.com/article/5596196/payment-processor-firm-to-bring-more-than-600-jobs-to-planned-downtown-okc-office (https://newsok.com/article/5596196/payment-processor-firm-to-bring-more-than-600-jobs-to-planned-downtown-okc-office)

Heartland headquarters incentives deal advances in Oklahoma City Council:  https://newsok.com/article/5607958/heartland-headquarters-incentives-deal-advances-in-oklahoma-city-council (https://newsok.com/article/5607958/heartland-headquarters-incentives-deal-advances-in-oklahoma-city-council)

OKC:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVc4pgBGO28 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVc4pgBGO28)

One thing I am very thankful for is our push to get pedestrian friendly/transit friendly development in our core.  Don't always get it as the rules are so lax, but we have been getting a decent amount nonetheless.  Seems more OKC developments in their core don't "get it", but thats just armchair prognosticating.  We may go down to OKC this Saturday to take a gander and see what they are up to down the pike lol.

Quote from: TheArtist on October 18, 2018, 08:30:50 AM
One thing I am very thankful for is our push to get pedestrian friendly/transit friendly development in our core.  Don't always get it as the rules are so lax, but we have been getting a decent amount nonetheless.  Seems more OKC developments in their core don't "get it", but thats just armchair prognosticating.  We may go down to OKC this Saturday to take a gander and see what they are up to down the pike lol.

They are about to start their streetcar train service. That's WAY beyond anything we are doing. "Bus Rapid Transit" in a few years doesn't cut it.

Quote from: swake on October 18, 2018, 09:27:03 AM
They are about to start their streetcar train service. That's WAY beyond anything we are doing. "Bus Rapid Transit" in a few years doesn't cut it.

Bus Rapid Transit, if done right with set schedules, covered stops and high frequency, can be more effective than a streetcar.  Especially for a long distance inter-city route like Peoria.  That being said I think we should look at what OKC (and Kansas City) have done with a streetcar and see if we can do something similar that connects the downtown districts and also to TU.  I'm in OKC every few months and have been impressed by the new developments that have been spurred along the line. 

Anyways this thread is about IKEA..

Bus Rapid Transit will be a plus for Tulsa.  It will be a success.   Hope Tulsa eventually bring its own streetcar system to downtown.  You have a beautiful/clean downtown; the streetcar would cater to tourists; especially convention attendees.  

Oklahoma City Streetcar system will serve 3 areas covering 6.9 miles, Downtown, Midtown (4.9 mile loop) & Bricktown (2.0 mile loop); the 6.9 miles of streetcar link interconnects.  Our biggest snag with the streetcar will be the underground tunnel--Metro Concourse which stretches throughout 20 blocks downtown, it covers 1 mile:  http://downtownokc.com/underground/ (http://downtownokc.com/underground/)

Tour of the OKC MAPS III streetcar route:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD7cyPMq18s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD7cyPMq18s)

Oklahoma City 3D Fly-Through  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVgYJoEP36Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVgYJoEP36Q)

There are many exciting developments under construction in OKC's new convention district with the 72 acre $131 million DT Scissortail Park, New Convention Center & 605 room Omni Hotel and the 133 room Fairfield Inn & Suites by Tulsa developer Andy Pratel has topped off at 5 stories next to the convention center.  http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=38017&page=10 (http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=38017&page=10).

The Convention Center District comprised of $288 million convention center, $40 million 550 space parking garage, $131 million downtown park, $240 million Omni & $80 million Fairfield INN hotels will infuse $860 million into the new district.

MAPS 3 Oklahoma City Streetcar Progress Update – July 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gJKRIt15hU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gJKRIt15hU)

Oklahoma City's Bricktown District:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU3uO_1P6mg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU3uO_1P6mg)

Blah, blah, blah, blah, OKC, blah, blah, blah, OKC, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, OKC...  ::)

An Atlanta-based technology service company is seeking financial incentives to aid in bringing up to 150 jobs to Oklahoma City.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rural2.jpg)


Rural Sourcing, Inc. currently has 420 employees and is rapidly growing. It has targeted OKC for an expansion office and plans to add 150 new jobs over the next three years.

The average first-year wage is estimated at $68,614, according to documents appearing on the agenda for next Tuesday's Economic Development Trust meeting.

The offices would be located in the Plow Building, a recently restored five-story building at 29 E. Reno Ave. in Bricktown. Formerly abandoned, the Plow was thoroughly renovated by local developer Richard McKown and with this latest deal is approaching full capacity.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rural1.jpg)

Rural Sourcing specializes in domestically outsourced software development and support. In addition to their Atlanta headquarters, the have offices in Albuquerque, New Mexico; Mobile, Alabama; and Jonesboro, Arkansas.

A memo to the trust from city manager Jim Couch indicates the Chamber of Commerce has been working with the company since July and that Rural Sourcing reviewed 50 mid-size cities and considered factors such as access to IT talent, cost of living, quality of life and economic incentives.

It is estimated that the financial impact would be $122.5 million over the first seven years.

The company plans to invest $500,000 in leasehold improvements and $1 million in furniture and equipment over the next three years.

The trust is being asked to approve a resolution that would be the first step in allocating $450,000 in incentives in general obligation limited tax bond proceeds. Ultimately, city council would have to provide final approval.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rural3.jpg)

via OKCTalk:  Tech company to bring 150 jobs to Bricktown - Published on 09-14-2018 10:00 AM


Published: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 By: Steve Lackmeyer Source: NewsOK

Rural Sourcing, a software development company, is set to start hiring for its proposed new location in Bricktown later this year with plans to staff up to 150 people or more after three years.

Tre Sasser, chief financial officer at the Atlanta-based company, said Oklahoma City prevailed over 49 other cities considered for the company's fifth development center.

"I'm incredibly excited by the prospect of coming to Oklahoma City," Sasser said Tuesday during a presentation to the Oklahoma City Economic Development Trust. "We believe it's the right combination of high-tech talent, low cost of living and quality of life to get us started."  https://www.greateroklahomacity.com/news/2018/09/19/newsok/rural-sourcing-aims-to-compete-against-world-from-bricktown/ (https://www.greateroklahomacity.com/news/2018/09/19/newsok/rural-sourcing-aims-to-compete-against-world-from-bricktown/)

The company will be on the Oklahoma City Streetcar Bricktown loop west of the Bricktown Ballpark.

Quote from: AngieB on October 18, 2018, 01:58:44 PM
Blah, blah, blah, blah, OKC, blah, blah, blah, OKC, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, OKC...  ::)

No kidding...!!   We just opened Gathering Place.  I haven't stopped in yet, but have driven by and it looks impressive.  OKC doesn't have that.  Or anything really like it...

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 18, 2018, 06:15:41 PM

No kidding...!!   We just opened Gathering Place.  I haven't stopped in yet, but have driven by and it looks impressive.  OKC doesn't have that.  Or anything really like it...

Right? They had to *make* a river. IMO, OKC doesn't have anything over Tulsa other than having the Thunder.

I don't think Laramie is trying to make this into an OKC vs. Tulsa thing. Just showcasing some interesting OKC developments in lieu of this IKEA thing that may or may not happen.

My suggestion: move this thread and rename it OKC Developments.

Quote from: shavethewhales on October 19, 2018, 10:53:59 AM
I don't think Laramie is trying to make this into an OKC vs. Tulsa thing. Just showcasing some interesting OKC developments in lieu of this IKEA thing that may or may not happen.

My suggestion: move this thread and rename it OKC Developments.

Thank you, savethewhales

Just happy to see both cities showing a lot of progress of late with bright futures ahead.  

Tulsa's Gathering Place is every bit of 1st class, big league and second-to-none among any city park you will see in North America. The Jenks' Aquarium have us rethinking what we can do with our OKC Zoo Aquarium.  Our Zoo is funded by a dedicated 1/8 cent permanent sales tax for capital improvements; they have managed the money well for 28 years ($6-$12 million annually since 1990) with a number of new exhibits--total transformation. OKC Zoo: https://www.okczoo.org/ (https://www.okczoo.org/)

Both cities have MSA that exceed 1 million with urban/metro population growth; most U.S. cities are not seeing a growth in both urban & metro populations.

Tulsa has three 500 room hotels;  all primed for conventions.  OKC demolished a 25 story 600 room historic and vacant Biltmore in 1977.  In 1975, 2 years after we built the Myriad Convention Center we only had one 395 room DT first class hotel; couldn't book conventions because we didn't have the hotel room accommodations.

Those of you who are old enough to remember the 70s-80s decades, Oklahoma City was the pits; undoubtedly the biggest, nastiest, raggediest town in the U.S.  1993 MAPS initiative was our revitalization--it saved our city.   Progress for Oklahoma's two largest cities is great for Oklahoma; it creates competition between both cities--that's great.    

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 18, 2018, 06:15:41 PM

No kidding...!!   We just opened Gathering Place.  I haven't stopped in yet, but have driven by and it looks impressive.  OKC doesn't have that.  Or anything really like it...

Hey now we do have a $132 million park currently being built downtown that will connect downtown to the river. It won't be as nice as the gathering place (that's what twice the money gets you), but it will still be a nice park and will have the advantage of being located downtown which will help it spur more urban development than the gathering place will. It will also be bordered by the new Omni and Convention Center. Two different types of parks both with their own advantages.

https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/projects/downtown-public-park

Quote from: PhiAlpha on October 21, 2018, 06:05:52 PM
Hey now we do have a $132 million park currently being built downtown that will connect downtown to the river. It won't be as nice as the gathering place (that's what twice the money gets you), but it will still be a nice park and will have the advantage of being located downtown which will help it spur more urban development than the gathering place will. It will also be bordered by the new Omni and Convention Center. Two different types of parks both with their own advantages.

https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/projects/downtown-public-park

Yeah...they have some very cool stuff there...but it's still OKC.  Just a flat place on the prairie.  Overall, not even close to Northeast OK in interest, beauty, or quality of life.  (I have spent the majority of my time for the last 11+ years "living" in OKC area.  Oh, yeah - almost forgot - they have North Pole City...that is cooler than any store in Tulsa area!!  Like a very small 'Decorators Warehouse' from Arlington, TX.)

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 21, 2018, 07:13:40 PM

Yeah...they have some very cool stuff there...but it's still OKC.  Just a flat place on the prairie.  Overall, not even close to Northeast OK in interest, beauty, or quality of life.  (I have spent the majority of my time for the last 11+ years "living" in OKC area.  Oh, yeah - almost forgot - they have North Pole City...that is cooler than any store in Tulsa area!!  Like a very small 'Decorators Warehouse' from Arlington, TX.)

That's your opinion. I've lived it both, the quantity of life and amenities are almost identical.

Quote from: PhiAlpha on October 21, 2018, 08:14:59 PM
That's your opinion. I've lived it both, the quantity of life and amenities are almost identical.

We'll agree to disagree then.  I spent every weekend in the OKC metro while I was married (in laws) and while there were things to do, it reminded me of a ghost town.  Spread out way too much.  If I recall, at one point OKC was the largest city in the country.  In regards to land area, not population obviously.

Quote from: Hoss on October 22, 2018, 07:13:13 AM
We'll agree to disagree then.  I spent every weekend in the OKC metro while I was married (in laws) and while there were things to do, it reminded me of a ghost town.  Spread out way too much.  If I recall, at one point OKC was the largest city in the country.  In regards to land area, not population obviously.

Not sure where you were spending your time or when you were spending it here, but I live in downtown OKC and spend most of my time in Tulsa around downtown/midtown. Your experience does not reflect what I've seen between both cities. I have noticed that for the most part, people like the city they grew up in more than the other. I've also noticed, at least among my friends or people I've met in both cities, that Tulsans tend to compare Tulsa to OKC A LOT, often taking shots at OKC when I mention I'm from here or in general conversations, while for the most part people in OKC all but forget that Tulsa exists. I'm obviously not one of those people since I spend a lot of time between the two and enjoy what both have to offer but the inferiority complex or competition that Tulsans seem to have with OKC has always been comical to me. This thread is a good example lol.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 11, 2018, 09:11:15 PM

I may have to go to OKC Talk...they have "Eric"...  seems like a person in search of enlightenment.

And GaryOKC6... flat out lying, so I know he is a Trump Minion.   Saying his 401k has nearly doubled since Trump took office.   If it was strictly Amazon or Tesla, maybe yeah.  But no 401 is gonna have just those two options.  

Could be interesting as much time as I spend there.

Your characterization of OKCTalk is interesting lol. Though in seriousness I try to follow Tulsa developments and I wish this site was half of what Pete's built in OKCTalk. He has threads or articles on every development, restaurant, retail venue, etc in any stage of planning or construction througout OKC. Over the last few years, I've seen construction sites in downtown Tulsa and have spent a decent amount of time here trying to figure out what was being built but often have had to look elsewhere. I've honestly had better luck getting info from OKCTalk's Tulsa thread. Even my friends that are involved in TYPros or generally try to follow development in both cities have had similar criticisms. Tulsa has a lot of developments to keep up with now, TulsaNow needs to step up its game!

Quote from: PhiAlpha on October 21, 2018, 06:05:52 PM
Hey now we do have a $132 million park currently being built downtown that will connect downtown to the river. It won't be as nice as the gathering place (that's what twice the money gets you),

That project sounds really cool! The Gathering Place was a $465 million project btw so about triple the investment. A big difference being that it's a bit outside downtown rather than connecting downtown to the river. OKC has done a good job putting nice parks in the downtown, especially with the botanical gardens.

Quote from: PhiAlpha on October 21, 2018, 08:14:59 PM
That's your opinion. I've lived it both, the quantity of life and amenities are almost identical.

So have I.   Yeah, the quantity is probably almost identical.  It's quality and/or ambience' of surrounding area that is dramatically different...

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 22, 2018, 08:49:03 AM
That project sounds really cool! The Gathering Place was a $465 million project btw so about triple the investment. A big difference being that it's a bit outside downtown rather than connecting downtown to the river. OKC has done a good job putting nice parks in the downtown, especially with the botanical gardens.

I hope ours ends up even a third as nice as the gathering place. I've already been a few times and it's impressive!

Really wish we had a Kaiser like person dumping money into our projects. Aubrey McClendon was similar for awhile but he couldn't come close to George Kaiser. Our park was completley privately funded. The rest of the $777 million raised for MAPS was spent on the convention center across the street, white water facility, street car, various trail improvements throughout the city and other projects.

Quote from: PhiAlpha on October 22, 2018, 08:46:57 AM
Your characterization of OKCTalk is interesting lol. Though in seriousness I try to follow Tulsa developments and I wish this site was half of what Pete's built in OKCTalk. He has threads or articles on every development, restaurant, retail venue, etc in any stage of planning or construction througout OKC. Over the last few years, I've seen construction sites in downtown Tulsa and have spent a decent amount of time here trying to figure out what was being built but often have had to look elsewhere. I've honestly had better luck getting info from OKCTalk's Tulsa thread. Even my friends that are involved in TYPros or generally try to follow development in both cities have had similar criticisms. Tulsa has a lot of developments to keep up with now, TulsaNow needs to step up its game!

I wasn't characterizing OKCTalk.  

Seems like an interesting site, and I said I may well have to sign up to contribute there, too.  Am interested in seeing what Pete is up to.  Wonder if he will approve me to join.??

I WAS specifically talking about two participants there.  Different thing from OKCTalk...

TulsaNow does need to upgrade in at least one area - this forum in particular - it doesn't have https: security.  I don't know anything about the running of this show, but get the feel that it is volunteers with limited budget and IT support...??  Nice little place to come visit.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 22, 2018, 08:52:35 AM


So have I.   Yeah, the quantity is probably almost identical.  It's quality and/or ambience' of surrounding area that is dramatically different...

Yes Tulsa has slightly more topography and i agree that overall its prettier but it's not like you're living in Yellowstone or something. The nice historic neighborhoods (heritage hills, Mesta Park, Crownheights, Edgemere Park, Nichols Hills, etc) all look about the same to me, have big nice old trees and rolling hills just like all of Tulsa's nice areas. Same for both cities' nicer suburbs like Norman and Edmond vs Owasso, Jenks, and BA. I would say South Tulsa has a big leg up on the suburban parts of OKC.

Quote from: PhiAlpha on October 22, 2018, 08:17:23 AM
Not sure where you were spending your time or when you were spending it here, but I live in downtown OKC and spend most of my time in Tulsa around downtown/midtown. Your experience does not reflect what I've seen between both cities. I have noticed that for the most part, people like the city they grew up in more than the other. I've also noticed, at least among my friends or people I've met in both cities, that Tulsans tend to compare Tulsa to OKC A LOT, often taking shots at OKC when I mention I'm from here or in general conversations, while for the most part people in OKC all but forget that Tulsa exists. I'm obviously not one of those people since I spend a lot of time between the two and enjoy what both have to offer but the inferiority complex or competition that Tulsans seem to have with OKC has always been comical to me. This thread is a good example lol.

Oh, the old "I don't even think of you at all" quip... what a burn!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlOSdRMSG_k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlOSdRMSG_k)

That doesn't seem to be true at all. I know plenty of people who moved to Tulsa from OKC and vice versa. Most people make it back to where they were born regardless, but anyone in OKC who says they don't know of the only other large metro in the state is not well educated and/or terribly untraveled. It's like comparing Dallas to Fort Worth or San Antonio vs Austin. It would be weird to live in one and not think of the other or have any opinion. Anyone who knows about or has been to Tulsa area know it's far more beautiful than OKC in terms of natural beauty and parks in general and also known for better music and art scene. Tulsans compare what Tulsa has vs NW Arkansas a lot (maybe just as much as OKC) and Missouri and Dallas area and KC. There's plenty of ways Tulsa can be better and plenty of things that make it better than other places.

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 22, 2018, 09:08:32 AM
Oh, the old "I don't even think of you at all" quip... what a burn!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlOSdRMSG_k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlOSdRMSG_k)

That doesn't seem to be true at all. I know plenty of people who moved to Tulsa from OKC and vice versa. Most people make it back to where they were born regardless, but anyone in OKC who says they don't know of the only other large metro in the state is not well educated and/or terribly untraveled. It's like comparing Dallas to Fort Worth or San Antonio vs Austin. It would be weird to live in one and not think of the other or have any opinion. Anyone who knows about or has been to Tulsa area know it's far more beautiful than OKC in terms of natural beauty and parks in general and also known for better music and art scene. Tulsans compare what Tulsa has vs NW Arkansas a lot (maybe just as much as OKC) and Missouri and Dallas area and KC. There's plenty of ways Tulsa can be better and plenty of things that make it better than other places.

That was obviously an exaggeration everyone knows that Tulsa is there but in my experience people in OKC just don't talk about or compare OKC to Tulsa near as much as people in Tulsa do. Definitely don't hear people flying in with the type of derogatory comments I hear from people in Tulsa. It's almost comical how people in Tulsa will make some type of put down comment about OKC the second you introduce yourself as being from OKC. I just haven't noticed that as much the other way around. Granted those are my experiences vs what I've witnessed when Tulsans talk about Tulsa around people from OKC but it is what it is. It just always seems like a competition that one side really cares about while the other side doesn't. I guess best way to say it is that I haven't noticed the level of smugness in OKC when comparing the two that I do in Tulsa.

Quote from: PhiAlpha on October 22, 2018, 09:02:40 AM
Yes Tulsa has slightly more topography and i agree that overall its prettier but it's not like you're living in Yellowstone or something. The nice historic neighborhoods (heritage hills, Mesta Park, Crownheights, Edgemere Park, Nichols Hills, etc) all look about the same to me, have big nice old trees and rolling hills just like all of Tulsa's nice areas. Same for both cities' nicer suburbs like Norman and Edmond vs Owasso, Jenks, and BA. I would say South Tulsa has a big leg up on the suburban parts of OKC.

NE OK...not quite the Yellowstone of OK, but it is the Great Smoky Mtn's of OK.   OKC is the Kansas of Oklahoma...

ALL the Big Lakes (if one is into water based entertainment), scenic drives, cute little novelties - largest totem pole, blue whale, etc.  (Yeah, OKC has a round barn nearby.)  Woolaroc, Tallgrass Prairie, most religious cult headquarters.  Better amusement parks - well until the cult sold it a few weeks ago...

Almost "Portland-esque" in it's ambience'...   JK.!

Quote from: PhiAlpha on October 22, 2018, 08:46:57 AM
Your characterization of OKCTalk is interesting lol. Though in seriousness I try to follow Tulsa developments and I wish this site was half of what Pete's built in OKCTalk. He has threads or articles on every development, restaurant, retail venue, etc in any stage of planning or construction througout OKC.

Pete does a good job with OKCTalk, if he created a similar forum for Tulsa I'm sure it would be a hit.  Pete needs to find a Tulsa version of himself to run it though lol.  In the meantime he should take his drone up the turnpike and give us some aerials of the Gathering Place and new developments downtown!

Quote from: PhiAlpha on October 22, 2018, 08:17:23 AM

I've also noticed, at least among my friends or people I've met in both cities, that Tulsans tend to compare Tulsa to OKC A LOT, often taking shots at OKC when I mention I'm from here or in general conversations, while for the most part people in OKC all but forget that Tulsa exists. I'm obviously not one of those people since I spend a lot of time between the two and enjoy what both have to offer but the inferiority complex or competition that Tulsans seem to have with OKC has always been comical to me. This thread is a good example lol.

You are sure right about that!!  I have commented on it in the past - Tulsa does seem to have this "little brother" syndrome going on, when in reality, there is nothing here to feel inferior about.!  Compared to OKC or any other city and metro area this size in the middle of the country!  Well, except for maybe some of the politicians we elect.  But then OKC does outdo us on batsh$t crazy on that one - think Sally Kern, etc - but only by a hair!  We got Nathan Dahm and Billy-Bob-Markwayne Mullins in this area.  And Robert Millar leftovers (Elohim City)...

Quote from: PhiAlpha on October 22, 2018, 09:02:40 AM
Yes Tulsa has slightly more topography and i agree that overall its prettier but it's not like you're living in Yellowstone or something. The nice historic neighborhoods (heritage hills, Mesta Park, Crownheights, Edgemere Park, Nichols Hills, etc) all look about the same to me, have big nice old trees and rolling hills just like all of Tulsa's nice areas. Same for both cities' nicer suburbs like Norman and Edmond vs Owasso, Jenks, and BA. I would say South Tulsa has a big leg up on the suburban parts of OKC.

OKC has nicer suburbs overall and white flight was much more dramatic there pushing the money out to the suburbs much more drastically. Tulsa has nice neighborhoods from just south of downtown with a nice large midtown area with a solid stretch of mostly nice neighborhoods all the way to the next Suburb, Bixby/Jenks. That "corridor" has much higher higher education attainment than the rest of Oklahoma. In OKC, the higher educated parts are pushed out to Edmond mostly.

Tulsa: (https://i.redd.it/zzpife58gwrz.png)

OKC: (https://i.redd.it/hv8xijubyorz.png) Notice the massive core from middle/south OKC where bachelor degree rates are 0-9.9%...

You can "see" these maps in action when you drive through those areas and how OKC shifted away from its core more. Tulsa is lucky to have solid continuity between nice neighborhoods with pretty good public school districts and downtown all the way to beyond South Tulsa.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 22, 2018, 09:00:33 AM

I wasn't characterizing OKCTalk.  

Seems like an interesting site, and I said I may well have to sign up to contribute there, too.  Am interested in seeing what Pete is up to.  Wonder if he will approve me to join.??

I WAS specifically talking about two participants there.  Different thing from OKCTalk...

TulsaNow does need to upgrade in at least one area - this forum in particular - it doesn't have https: security.  I don't know anything about the running of this show, but get the feel that it is volunteers with limited budget and IT support...??  Nice little place to come visit

He'd approve you?  There are a number of posters from TulsaNow on the OKCTalk forum--all are welcome.  Pete has his share of opposition posters, he respects you and your position if you disagree with his views.

Again, OKCTalk has a special tread devoted to Tulsa.  It helps to know what both cities are doing because much of what affects Oklahoma happens in Tulsa & Oklahoma City.  PhiApha speaks with knowledge, we've had our disagreements; however I've always respected him because he's armed with knowledge--never half cocked.

I applaud 'The Gathering Place,' it's a well planned blue print and investment for Tulsa; a community that supported this project from the generosity of its donors.  George Kaiser loves Tulsa & Oklahoma.  He's one of 7 NBA Thunder ownership, Oklahoma's first major league sport.

Would love to see a coming together of our two largest communities.  We have much to gain working together; learning from each other.  Let's dispense with the bashing & snide remarks; growth, developments & gains are a win-win for Oklahoma.

Would love to see some form of rapid transit between our cities.  Potential game-changer for development that could be shared 45 miles from each city to the mid point of the Turner Turnpike.

Quote from: Laramie on October 22, 2018, 12:10:45 PM

Would love to see some form of rapid transit between our cities.  Potential game-changer for development that could be shared 45 miles from each city to the mid point of the Turner Turnpike.

That would be exciting but it might be tough to persuade the turnpike authority and the towns in between.

Quote from: Laramie on October 22, 2018, 12:10:45 PM

Would love to see some form of rapid transit between our cities.  Potential game-changer for development that could be shared 45 miles from each city to the mid point of the Turner Turnpike.

Wasn't that the purpose of the Tanger Outlet Mall that was in Stroud? I think I went there twice in 1992/93 and never went back. The prices didn't justify the drive, and I don't remember how well it was doing before the storm leveled it in 1999.

Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 22, 2018, 02:19:45 PM
Wasn't that the purpose of the Tanger Outlet Mall that was in Stroud? I think I went there twice in 1992/93 and never went back. The prices didn't justify the drive, and I don't remember how well it was doing before the storm leveled it in 1999.

Tanger Outlet Mall did well; the out-of-state owners chose not to rebuild following the May 3, 1999 super tornado.

Oklahoma City built its outlet mall in 2011; 395,000 sq., ft., under roof--twice the size of Tanger.  The quality of items are great for the brands and prices.  Seems to be going great.

Whenever in Texas, I visited the outlet malls in Gainesville & Denton; they don't seem to be as lucrative as they once were; probably on life support as they are more trending toward mixed-use.   The big Grapevine Mall attracted many of the locals from the outlets.

Not so sure malls are the future as mega companies like Amazon & Walmart expand on-line sales with amazing profits.

Quote from: Laramie on October 22, 2018, 03:01:20 PM
Tanger Outlet Mall did well; the out-of-state owners chose not to rebuild following the May 3, 1999 super tornado.

Oklahoma City built its outlet mall in 2011; 395,000 sq., ft., under roof--twice the size of Tanger.  The quality of items are great for the brands and prices.  Seems to be going great.


Not so sure malls are the future as mega companies like Amazon & Walmart expand on-line sales with amazing profits.

Most outlet items are made-for-outlets. Usually completely separate supply chain from regular brand and usually made to be sold at the exact "discounted prices" you pay.

Surprisingly, Amazon hasn't been very profitable until just this year when they made record $2 billion in 2Q on $51 billion revenue,  but previously were barely making any profit in comparison to the massive revenue. 2 day shipping is expensive and everything is going back into making it the largest retail company on earth (So real profitability is probably yet to be realized).

The end game is when Amazon will have majority control on retail and be able to really start finding their own high-profitability niches and controlling prices in those markets (Sort of like Luxottica did with eye glasses). Then they could be extremely profitable and profits could be in the tens of billions per quarter (in theory). WalMart had just about gotten to that level of profitability in some regards when Amazon and other online retailers pushed the envelope (Walmart was making ~$16B/yr profit on ~$180B market cap). Now Amazon is the big guy (with $874 billion market cap!) and Walmart isn't even that close with a still-ludicrous $284 billion market cap.

Agree 100%

Amazon's in a position to profit from the retail market.  I'm of the old school value--it hasn't changed.  My purchases are driven by the senses (taste, sight, touch, smell, and sound); therefore I prefer not to purchase online because of unknown risks.  

Tulsa & Oklahoma City were among the cities to submit bids for Amazon's 2nd HQ.

New Amazon fulfillment center to create 1,500 jobs in Oklahoma, officials say:  https://kfor.com/2018/05/28/new-amazon-fulfillment-center-to-create-1500-jobs-in-oklahoma-officials-say/ (https://kfor.com/2018/05/28/new-amazon-fulfillment-center-to-create-1500-jobs-in-oklahoma-officials-say/)

QuoteThe facility is expected to be more than 2.5 million square feet and will be located near the Will Rogers World Airport on the east side of the property between 59th St. and 104th St.

There is an Oklahoma City  Amazon delivery warehouse center at 4401 E Hefner.   OKC will possess two Amazon properties.

Tulsa will have a similar 1,500 job Amazon facility:  https://kfor.com/2018/06/09/amazon-announces-plan-to-open-second-fulfillment-center-in-oklahoma/ (https://kfor.com/2018/06/09/amazon-announces-plan-to-open-second-fulfillment-center-in-oklahoma/)

Those bids submitted for Amazon's 2nd HQ may have paid dividends for many cities throughout the United States.

Lariat Landing is a 2,000 acre development track on the 8,000 acres where OKC's Will Rogers World Airport (WRWA) is located.  The airport will complete almost $200 million in expansion from 2000 come 2020; increase in passengers (arrivals/departure) with future terminals designed to eventually handle more flights.

Quote from: Laramie on October 22, 2018, 12:10:45 PM

Would love to see some form of rapid transit between our cities.  Potential game-changer for development that could be shared 45 miles from each city to the mid point of the Turner Turnpike.

Would love to have a train!   Would be absolute perfection for my travels...

How Amazon's new Oklahoma City delivery station will impact your future deliveries:  https://kfor.com/2018/10/23/how-amazons-new-oklahoma-city-delivery-station-will-impact-your-future-deliveries/ (https://kfor.com/2018/10/23/how-amazons-new-oklahoma-city-delivery-station-will-impact-your-future-deliveries/)

QuoteAmazon's footprint in Oklahoma City started last year with a sortation facility. Next year, they'll open a fulfillment center in Oklahoma City and one in Tulsa - a complex process.

"Fulfillment center is our first line, and then we do sortation, and then we go to our delivery centers but we get fed not just from the local fulfillment center. We'll be fed from all over the United States," said Deliver Station Manager Paul Munter.

Quote from: PhiAlpha on October 22, 2018, 09:13:29 AM
That was obviously an exaggeration everyone knows that Tulsa is there but in my experience people in OKC just don't talk about or compare OKC to Tulsa near as much as people in Tulsa do. Definitely don't hear people flying in with the type of derogatory comments I hear from people in Tulsa. It's almost comical how people in Tulsa will make some type of put down comment about OKC the second you introduce yourself as being from OKC. I just haven't noticed that as much the other way around. Granted those are my experiences vs what I've witnessed when Tulsans talk about Tulsa around people from OKC but it is what it is. It just always seems like a competition that one side really cares about while the other side doesn't. I guess best way to say it is that I haven't noticed the level of smugness in OKC when comparing the two that I do in Tulsa.

I think some of that is, well if your on the "good side" of things then you don't notice what the other persons problems are and why they are complaining, because it doesn't  affect you.  You can go about your business all happy and carefree then wonder why that other guy is complaining, but not really care or have to listen.  

Tulsa has often gotten the short side of the stick on many things where as OKC and environs got the good stuff.  When your here you see, feel and remember the effects.  Why would anyone in OKC feel the negative effects of something that hurt Tulsa?  

-OKC, nearby and easy access to large publicly funded Universities.  (Downtown OKC to downtown Norman is the same distance from downtown Tulsa to downtown Broken Arrow)  Year after year after decade after decade, that has an effect.  Positive for OKC, negative for Tulsa.  Also huge funding for Stillwater, which is a difficult commute for someone with a career and or family.   Things are better now, but when I was getting out of high school, the choice was pretty much expensive TU or leave the area. Had many friends back in the day who looked at Tulsa as a possible place to move, but couldn't for they couldn't further their careers for the educational offerings weren't available to do so. The politics (which is located in OKC) have always seemed to work against Tulsa having a live on campus type, publicly funded university nearby. Year after year, decade after decade, even for generations, OKC has had an advantage Tulsa has lacked and fought so hard to fix. Small things add up over time, positively, and negatively.

-I live by the small new OU Tulsa campus at 41st and Yale.  Remember a while back when some funding was "allocated" for some diabetes focused medical/research facilities for Tulsa and OKC.  I remember it because I saw how OKC was so proudly showing off the rendering of the 100 million dollar facility they were getting for their medical park and touting how many jobs it would bring, research grants, federal funding, research spin off, people it would employ, secondary impact to nearby restaurants etc.  Then I saw Tulsa's "fair share" (The Tulsa region has higher incidences of diabetes and thus more need for such a facility.) our "fair share" was 10 million dollars.  We got to look at this meager little add on to an existing building.  

But again, why would anyone from OKC notice that? Feel that? Be upset by that? Why would they even care? It really is perfectly reasonable and understandable that you wouldn't.  

-Oh, then there was the Native American Museum debacle.  In a nutshell...The OKC politicians convinced Tulsa (and I don't know why we fall for this every time) that "If you all help us and vote for this funding and let us have the first batch of money, then you can have some money for yours with the second batch."  We go with it. You get your money. Then when its time to get the money for our museum. Ooops there is a snag, we are going to have to vote again.  We vote yes, the OKC politicians vote no.  We got screwed again.  The people YOU in OKC voted for, screwed us over.  Honestly I blame our politicians for falling for that old ruse again and again, just as much as yours for being a bunch of lying crooks lol.  (The other version is "Oops we did have the money then for us, but now times are tough and there isn't any for Tulsa's turn (roads, infrastructure, etc.).)

-Then of course by having the Capital there you all get all kinds of economic advantages and perks we do not. We send our tax dollars there, you siphon off a bit to pay for people to shuffle paper and then send "some" of what we sent back. (government jobs and buildings in OKC aren't free I suppose) Plus whenever we want to conduct government type things (heck to even start a business) we HAVE to go down to OKC, you don't have to come here. We have to spend money there, to dine, get gas, perhaps stay, pay whatever it is we are going to pay, etc. Thats another small economic advantage you get that we don't.

-Just as a side note, noticed on some of those research facilities and even educational buildings that they had the names of some prominent, wealthy Tulsa donors on them (even saw how wealthy Tulsans help the arts in OKC).  Good to know that we have such giving people in Tulsa, those things help you all a lot.  But we also notice that the balance of philanthropy pretty much goes one way down the turnpike.  Many wealthy OKC people giving to Museums and arts in Tulsa? Schools & Universities? Hospitals and research facilities?  Hmm? Bet you never even thought about it.

- Oh and speaking of buildings, that Capitol building.  Kind of an expensive project. I remember when we were fighting to keep the historic tax credit thing alive to help us begin to fix up some of the great old buildings in our downtown like the art deco Tulsa Club.  The folks in OKC were threatening to take it away saying it cost to much money.  Besides as your conservative politicians put it, "The state should not be in the business of preserving art/architecture/history." those things aren't important functions for government.  Unless of course its the marbled walls they sit their butts in every day.  It would have been a lot more fiscally conservative to build a new modern office building to house whats in that Capitol building.  But again, its easy to be a strict conservative if its something that doesn't affect you. I guarantee you I will get more benefit from the Tulsa Club building being turned into a beautiful, functioning, historic building than I will benefit from the millions going into the Capitol building.  And in order to get the tax credits you had to prove that the taxes and economics gained by the restoration would be greater than the cost and what would happen if it were not. You have to prove it would "make a return on the investment".  I wish they would have done the same math with the Capitol building. We saved the tax credits this go round, but it was quite a fight.

Anywhoo, could go on and on.  And I know it probably again sounds like "Oh, those people in Tulsa sure do whine a lot." But when your here, you see it in the papers. When your in OKC, you don't see the negative things, don't feel them, don't remember them.  Quite the contrary, you probably don't see the benefits you have for they are not even really benefits to you, but every day, thats the way it is stuff.  But those little "plusses" add up year after year, decade after decade. They can give you the little extra boost and security to say, vote for a nice MAPS program or two as a for instance.  We will go down to OKC, send busloads of people to fight for things we want for "our fair share" and, we see it in the papers, I bet most times you likely don't.  And you certainly don't see it when we lose the fight. And you don't get how it feels when we see you "win something" we were fighting for, and lost.  

And you probably have no idea it even happens.  Except, you do notice, for some odd, unfathomable reason, those Tulsa people sure to pick on OKC a lot. You do notice that and have no idea why? It's so strange isn't it? It's probably for no good reason right? Just something the water perhaps.  

The Artist - Wow.  Interesting take that I will put more thought into, but for God's sake please learn to separate the city of OKC, citizens of OKC and the politicians at the Capital that represent all 77 counties.  Your simple take that it is any person from OKC's cross to bare for all the wrongs in this state is laughable.   Maybe you should brand each OKC citizen with a scarlet OKC tattoo.  More to come later....

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on October 24, 2018, 07:27:05 AM
The Artist - Wow.  Interesting take that I will put more thought into, but for God's sake please learn to separate the city of OKC, citizens of OKC and the politicians at the Capital that represent all 77 counties.  Your simple take that it is any person from OKC's cross to bare for all the wrongs in this state is laughable.   Maybe you should brand each OKC citizen with a scarlet OKC tattoo.  More to come later....

That's not a bad idea, actually...

Quote from: TheArtist on October 23, 2018, 11:35:58 PM
I think some of that is, well if your on the "good side" of things then you don't notice what the other persons problems are and why they are complaining, because it doesn't  affect you.  You can go about your business all happy and carefree then wonder why that other guy is complaining, but not really care or have to listen.  

Tulsa has often gotten the short side of the stick on many things where as OKC and environs got the good stuff.  When your here you see, feel and remember the effects.  Why would anyone in OKC feel the negative effects of something that hurt Tulsa?  

That makes sense. It is frustrating how OKC does get a lot more of the focus of the state government, but the same can be said of all the ~70 counties and hundreds of cities and towns not included in the OKC metro. Oklahoma government is focused on OKC first and Tulsa 2nd. But then there's dozens of decent sized cities and towns left out even more so, along with the tribes, all neglected behind OKC as well.

It's not just OKC politicians screwing over Tulsa. They're screwing over the entire state. Tulsa has enough of its own accomplishment to make up for that (our average incomes are higher than OKC and we more than hold our own weight compared to similar sized metros) and a more significant record of philanthropy that has been huge in shaping what Tulsa is.

Our city is still the core of our metro with the vast majority of wealth and high income jobs in it. OKC's wealthiest and highest income earners moved to suburbs (See the maps I posted showing OKC's brain drain above), leaving the city-itself in a worse state overall than Tulsa as evidenced by their public schools which are even worse than Tulsa public schools and making private schools more of a "necessity" there for higher income earners, further depleting funds from public schools along with depleting personal wealth.

I wonder if Mick Cornett losing had to do with him being the OKC mayor. The Tulsa metro (which typically decides winner for governor primaries in Oklahoma) completely rejected him and many cited not wanting an OKC-centric governor.

Quote from: TheArtist on October 23, 2018, 11:35:58 PM
I think some of that is, well if your on the "good side" of things then you don't notice what the other persons problems are and why they are complaining, because it doesn't  affect you.  You can go about your business all happy and carefree then wonder why that other guy is complaining, but not really care or have to listen.  

Tulsa has often gotten the short side of the stick on many things where as OKC and environs got the good stuff.  When your here you see, feel and remember the effects.  Why would anyone in OKC feel the negative effects of something that hurt Tulsa?  

-OKC, nearby and easy access to large publicly funded Universities.  (Downtown OKC to downtown Norman is the same distance from downtown Tulsa to downtown Broken Arrow)  Year after year after decade after decade, that has an effect.  Positive for OKC, negative for Tulsa.  Also huge funding for Stillwater, which is a difficult commute for someone with a career and or family.   Things are better now, but when I was getting out of high school, the choice was pretty much expensive TU or leave the area. Had many friends back in the day who looked at Tulsa as a possible place to move, but couldn't for they couldn't further their careers for the educational offerings weren't available to do so. The politics (which is located in OKC) have always seemed to work against Tulsa having a live on campus type, publicly funded university nearby. Year after year, decade after decade, even for generations, OKC has had an advantage Tulsa has lacked and fought so hard to fix. Small things add up over time, positively, and negatively.

-I live by the small new OU Tulsa campus at 41st and Yale.  Remember a while back when some funding was "allocated" for some diabetes focused medical/research facilities for Tulsa and OKC.  I remember it because I saw how OKC was so proudly showing off the rendering of the 100 million dollar facility they were getting for their medical park and touting how many jobs it would bring, research grants, federal funding, research spin off, people it would employ, secondary impact to nearby restaurants etc.  Then I saw Tulsa's "fair share" (The Tulsa region has higher incidences of diabetes and thus more need for such a facility.) our "fair share" was 10 million dollars.  We got to look at this meager little add on to an existing building.  

But again, why would anyone from OKC notice that? Feel that? Be upset by that? Why would they even care? It really is perfectly reasonable and understandable that you wouldn't.  

-Oh, then there was the Native American Museum debacle.  In a nutshell...The OKC politicians convinced Tulsa (and I don't know why we fall for this every time) that "If you all help us and vote for this funding and let us have the first batch of money, then you can have some money for yours with the second batch."  We go with it. You get your money. Then when its time to get the money for our museum. Ooops there is a snag, we are going to have to vote again.  We vote yes, the OKC politicians vote no.  We got screwed again.  The people YOU in OKC voted for, screwed us over.  Honestly I blame our politicians for falling for that old ruse again and again, just as much as yours for being a bunch of lying crooks lol.  (The other version is "Oops we did have the money then for us, but now times are tough and there isn't any for Tulsa's turn (roads, infrastructure, etc.).)

-Then of course by having the Capital there you all get all kinds of economic advantages and perks we do not. We send our tax dollars there, you siphon off a bit to pay for people to shuffle paper and then send "some" of what we sent back. (government jobs and buildings in OKC aren't free I suppose) Plus whenever we want to conduct government type things (heck to even start a business) we HAVE to go down to OKC, you don't have to come here. We have to spend money there, to dine, get gas, perhaps stay, pay whatever it is we are going to pay, etc. Thats another small economic advantage you get that we don't.

-Just as a side note, noticed on some of those research facilities and even educational buildings that they had the names of some prominent, wealthy Tulsa donors on them (even saw how wealthy Tulsans help the arts in OKC).  Good to know that we have such giving people in Tulsa, those things help you all a lot.  But we also notice that the balance of philanthropy pretty much goes one way down the turnpike.  Many wealthy OKC people giving to Museums and arts in Tulsa? Schools & Universities? Hospitals and research facilities?  Hmm? Bet you never even thought about it.

- Oh and speaking of buildings, that Capitol building.  Kind of an expensive project. I remember when we were fighting to keep the historic tax credit thing alive to help us begin to fix up some of the great old buildings in our downtown like the art deco Tulsa Club.  The folks in OKC were threatening to take it away saying it cost to much money.  Besides as your conservative politicians put it, "The state should not be in the business of preserving art/architecture/history." those things aren't important functions for government.  Unless of course its the marbled walls they sit their butts in every day.  It would have been a lot more fiscally conservative to build a new modern office building to house whats in that Capitol building.  But again, its easy to be a strict conservative if its something that doesn't affect you. I guarantee you I will get more benefit from the Tulsa Club building being turned into a beautiful, functioning, historic building than I will benefit from the millions going into the Capitol building.  And in order to get the tax credits you had to prove that the taxes and economics gained by the restoration would be greater than the cost and what would happen if it were not. You have to prove it would "make a return on the investment".  I wish they would have done the same math with the Capitol building. We saved the tax credits this go round, but it was quite a fight.

Anywhoo, could go on and on.  And I know it probably again sounds like "Oh, those people in Tulsa sure do whine a lot." But when your here, you see it in the papers. When your in OKC, you don't see the negative things, don't feel them, don't remember them.  Quite the contrary, you probably don't see the benefits you have for they are not even really benefits to you, but every day, thats the way it is stuff.  But those little "plusses" add up year after year, decade after decade. They can give you the little extra boost and security to say, vote for a nice MAPS program or two as a for instance.  We will go down to OKC, send busloads of people to fight for things we want for "our fair share" and, we see it in the papers, I bet most times you likely don't.  And you certainly don't see it when we lose the fight. And you don't get how it feels when we see you "win something" we were fighting for, and lost.  

And you probably have no idea it even happens.  Except, you do notice, for some odd, unfathomable reason, those Tulsa people sure to pick on OKC a lot. You do notice that and have no idea why? It's so strange isn't it? It's probably for no good reason right? Just something the water perhaps.  

Sounds like a lot of searching for reasons to be upset but all are understandable complaints I guess. Having said that, as someone else mentioned, it sounds like most of your issue is with the state government being here and feeling slighted because of decisions that the state government has made in favor of OKC over Tulsa. You do realize that members from all 77 counties vote on all the government slights you're complaining about, right? It sounds like Tulsa's reps need to do a better job of whipping the votes for funding and projects that benefit the NE part of the state. Though the derogatory comments from Tulsans are never anyone complaining about state funding and most of the time don't come from people that would even seem to know the history behind that issue. It's always petty surface stuff like: "I'm from OKC" "Oh, Tulsa is so much better, OKC sucks." Like Okay, thanks for your opinion that I didn't ask for.

Can't say much about access to public universities. That just is what it is, they were built where they were and that isn't going to change.

On the diabetes center, Harold Hamm donated a large sum of money for that facility and has always been more tied to OKC and Enid than Tulsa. It makes sense that it would be located on the largest and most well established research/medical campus in the state and closer to the University that supports that research center. Tulsa's OU Campus was relatively new back then and is only now starting to come into it's own. Why would they choose to build a large diabetes research center at a fledgling OU campus, 100 plus miles away from the main university over a well established research and university medical campus with multiple hospitals that's 20 minutes from OU in Norman? I could see being upset about the state funding disparity between the two cities (which I've heard mentioned a lot by people in Tulsa but have never actually seen it quantified). but it just doesn't even make sense to be holding an apparent grudge about the main Diabetes Center being located here. Did anyone promise Tulsa that they would get an equal share of the funding for that? How much of the funding came from the state vs. donations?

The Native American Museum has been a nightmare, but again, that location and funding was approved by representative from throughout the state, not just OKC. I don't know if the politicians were to blame for the construction funding debacle or the poor planning but correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the next vote for funding (was it for the Pop Culture Museum?) come during/after the 2008 recession? That sounds more like bad fortune than anyone being lying crooks. At any rate, that museum was a state sponsored mess and the city itself didn't have anything to do with it. It finally does have a path to completion now that the city got more involved and helped create a partnership with the Chickasaw Nation.

On the Tulsa donors, honestly, Tulsa seems to have more large private donors and philanthropists than OKC does (at least currently). You don't see anyone like George Kaiser donating hundreds of millions of dollars to anything here.  Aubrey McClendon did a lot of work to improve the community but that all started dying down when natural gas prices cratered. It's not really surprising that OKC area private donors don't support much up the Turnpike because they don't do that much around OKC.

Yeah I get that the capital is located here, but that's been the case for 108 years now. Yes, to conduct state business, you must come to the state capital. Those are small economic advantages, sure, but there's no OKC boogieman that said "Screw Tulsa, it sucks! Everyone must come here to do everything!" It just is what it is.

On the historic preservation tax credits, I don't think most of the OKLAHOMA CITY representatives were against them. If you haven't noticed, we do a bunch of historic renovations down here as well and just began one of the most expensive historic renovation projects in state history at the First National Center downtown (likely over $200 million). It definitely was not just Tulsa representatives fighting to keep the tax credits, unless that's just what you want to believe https://newsok.com/article/5593267/historic-tax-credits-now-deemed-safe-threats-put-first-national-redevelopment-at-risk (https://newsok.com/article/5593267/historic-tax-credits-now-deemed-safe-threats-put-first-national-redevelopment-at-risk). I remember specifically several OKC representatives on both sides politically fighting to keep the historic tax credits in place because projects like the First National Center, the Skirvin a while ago, and other smaller historic projects wouldn't be viable without them. Here is some info on the First National Renovation. I don't think many outside of OKC are aware of it but the Great Banking Hall is probably one of the coolest public spaces in the state. https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/okc-landmark-first-national-center-faces-a-bright-future/Content?oid=2979744 (https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/okc-landmark-first-national-center-faces-a-bright-future/Content?oid=2979744)
http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=375-Tour-of-First-National-Center-reveals-more-details-on-redevelopment (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=375-Tour-of-First-National-Center-reveals-more-details-on-redevelopment)
(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fnc032018.jpg)

As far as the capital goes, I think that renovation goes well beyond any ROI metrics. It looks terrible for the state as a whole if its capital building is literally falling down. Sorry it's not in Tulsa, but regardless I know several people involved with that renovation and to say that it needed it badly is a massive understatement.

Of course we realize that we have those advantages. We also have a population size advantage. And I do keep up to a point with the "wins/losses" at the state level due to a few of my friends in Tulsa being involved at the state level though recently I haven't seen much to support the disparity you suggest outside of the Native American Center disaster. I guess your post does do a good job of explaining the inferiority complex that is probably the reason behind most of the comments that I hear from Tulsans though I would guess that most of the people I hear that type of derogatory crap from are mostly unaware of any of the issues you mentioned. Tulsa has a lot of advantages over OKC though like natural beauty, more architecture saved from Urban Renewal, better large private community donors, a better river (that Tulsa's leadership has taken way too long to dam and develop, glad that's finally happening), smaller city area, less white flight and urban decay to claw back from, etc... so it isn't exactly a completely uneven playing field.

At any rate, Tulsa's biggest disadvantage over the last few decades has been self-inflicted through ineffective/poor city leadership paired with an ineffective type of city government and too much division between different parts of Tulsa to get anything passed. You mention the MAPS programs, none of which have passed because of some "extra boost" or "security" provided by the state government help. The original MAPS passed because OKC sucked so much and was in such desperate need of a spark that the citizens voted to pass it. It literally happened because of the lack of security people felt with the situation here and the feeling that we had basically hit rock bottom in 1993 (though little did anyone know at the time that the real rock bottom would come two years later) and desperately needed to do something to right the ship. It had everything to do with effective city leadership paired with a great sales job that made the entire city (or at least 52% of it) believe that the proposed projects would improve the city and it is what has directly led to the prosperity OKC is experiencing now. That success has led to the next three MAPS votes to pass. Those projects are the reason we have the Thunder and have spurred over $7 Billion in private development in the core and elsewhere. The MAPS 3 projects like the new convention center, park, river improvements, streetcar and white water facility will spur more economic development. With effective city leadership, Tulsa could've had the same success with city projects like MAPS and it could've helped Tulsa retain the clear advantages it had over OKC in the 1990s that have all but evaporated. The mayor centric, partisan style of city government (as opposed to City Council/City Manager, non-partisan) has held Tulsa back, especially with the repeated election of people like Dewey Bartlett and Kathy Taylor. It took years to get Vision 2025 passed. The Arkansas River still doesn't have water in it consistently (I know it's finally happening soon) and if Tulsa had dammed it like we did ours through MAPS in the early 2000s, it could've ended up being the Olympic rowing destination that our tiny river has become. Comparing CITY politics between Tulsa and OKC over the last three decades has been mind blowing and the advantage has tilled clearly in OKC's favor. Fortunately it seems like you all finally elected a forward thinking mayor that can actually move the city forward in Bynum.

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 24, 2018, 01:49:23 PM
That makes sense. It is frustrating how OKC does get a lot more of the focus of the state government, but the same can be said of all the ~70 counties and hundreds of cities and towns not included in the OKC metro. Oklahoma government is focused on OKC first and Tulsa 2nd. But then there's dozens of decent sized cities and towns left out even more so, along with the tribes, all neglected behind OKC as well.

It's not just OKC politicians screwing over Tulsa. They're screwing over the entire state. Tulsa has enough of its own accomplishment to make up for that (our average incomes are higher than OKC and we more than hold our own weight compared to similar sized metros) and a more significant record of philanthropy that has been huge in shaping what Tulsa is.

Our city is still the core of our metro with the vast majority of wealth and high income jobs in it. OKC's wealthiest and highest income earners moved to suburbs (See the maps I posted showing OKC's brain drain above), leaving the city-itself in a worse state overall than Tulsa as evidenced by their public schools which are even worse than Tulsa public schools and making private schools more of a "necessity" there for higher income earners, further depleting funds from public schools along with depleting personal wealth.

I wonder if Mick Cornett losing had to do with him being the OKC mayor. The Tulsa metro (which typically decides winner for governor primaries in Oklahoma) completely rejected him and many cited not wanting an OKC-centric governor.

I wouldn't single out OKC politicians for screwing over the entire state. There are plenty of other politicians from the Tulsa Metro and elsewhere in the state that vote here and share just as much responsibility.

I think Cornett being the former Mayor of OKC had something to do with him losing support to Stitt in the Tulsa area but the overall loss had everything to do with him being the more moderate choice. Most of Lamb's voters shifted their support to the next most conservative in the group which is Stitt. Given what has happened in OKC while he was the mayor, you'd think his record as the mayor here would've been a great reason to support him (though admittedly, in a city manager style of government, he wasn't anywhere near the only influence on the city's success by design).

Our city is still the core of the metro too as far as high-income jobs are concerned but yes you are correct that a lot of the wealth lives in the suburbs. Having said that, the balance is starting to very slowly shift back to the city. There have also always been pockets of wealth similar to Midtown Tulsa in the core of OKC (Nichols Hills, Crown Heights, Heritage Hills, Edgemere, etc) and similar to South Tulsa on the North and Northwest parts of the city limits.

Quote from: TheArtist on October 23, 2018, 11:35:58 PM


-Oh, then there was the Native American Museum debacle.  In a nutshell...The OKC politicians convinced Tulsa (and I don't know why we fall for this every time) that "If you all help us and vote for this funding and let us have the first batch of money, then you can have some money for yours with the second batch."  We go with it. You get your money. Then when its time to get the money for our museum. Ooops there is a snag, we are going to have to vote again.  We vote yes, the OKC politicians vote no.  We got screwed again.  The people YOU in OKC voted for, screwed us over.  Honestly I blame our politicians for falling for that old ruse again and again, just as much as yours for being a bunch of lying crooks lol.  (The other version is "Oops we did have the money then for us, but now times are tough and there isn't any for Tulsa's turn (roads, infrastructure, etc.).)

The Native American Museum being places in the OKC makes no sense historically and it was put in a place with no tribal jurisdiction. It would make far more sense to put it in tribal territory and closer to the tribes with the largest population. Seems like the ideal spot would be near the intersection of Osage, Creek and Cherokee (i.e. NW of downtown Tulsa) or somewhere like Muskogee or Eufala that are right by the intersection of the 3 largest tribal nations by population.

Maybe that's why they had so much trouble getting donors and having to get the state to bail out the mismanaged and exorbitantly costly project multiple times. I'm guessing Cherokee and Creek nations would pay quite a bit for a Native American Museum which their citizens could actually visit on a regular basis.

BTW, The Native American Museum in DC is a pretty low-effort museum with very few artifacts/exhibits and was a complete let down. They had better temporary display on South American natives than the permanent exhibits for North American tribes!

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 24, 2018, 03:11:25 PM
The Native American Museum being places in the OKC makes no sense historically and it was put in a place with no tribal jurisdiction. It would make far more sense to put it in tribal territory and closer to the tribes with the largest population. Seems like the ideal spot would be near the intersection of Osage, Creek and Cherokee (i.e. NW of downtown Tulsa) or somewhere like Muskogee or Eufala that are right by the intersection of the 3 largest tribal nations by population.

Maybe that's why they had so much trouble getting donors and having to get the state to bail out the mismanaged and exorbitantly costly project multiple times. I'm guessing Cherokee and Creek nations would pay quite a bit for a Native American Museum which their citizens could actually visit on a regular basis.

BTW, The Native American Museum in DC is a pretty low-effort museum with very few artifacts/exhibits and was a complete let down. They had better temporary display on South American natives than the permanent exhibits for North American tribes!

Yeah I would agree that Tulsa might be a better location for it due to being on actual tribal land. Though the point could also be made that since the OKC area is part of the unassigned lands and thus not part of an area with any specific tribal affiliation but in the center of all the tribes original lands in the state, that it makes more since to put a museum representing all tribes in the state here rather than within a specific tribes jurisdiction or closer to only the tribes on the northeast part of the state.

Also part of the problem with getting other tribe's financial support has been that most of them are building tribe specific museums and cultural centers within their own jurisdictions.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Okterritory.png/1920px-Okterritory.png)

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on October 24, 2018, 07:27:05 AM
The Artist - Wow.  Interesting take that I will put more thought into, but for God's sake please learn to separate the city of OKC, citizens of OKC and the politicians at the Capital that represent all 77 counties.  Your simple take that it is any person from OKC's cross to bare for all the wrongs in this state is laughable.   Maybe you should brand each OKC citizen with a scarlet OKC tattoo.  More to come later....

It's more NE Oklahoma - Green Country - vs the 'west' side.  North south line going through Stillwater from KS to I-40 an East West from I-40 intersection to AR.  It is a lot like the 'alliances' seen on 'Big Brother' - the rest of the state DOES 'gang up' on northeast OK and we DO get the short end of the stick way too often.  

Some of this goes back more than half a century, and anyone driving out of Tulsa experiences it - turnpikes.  I-35 is free.  I-40 is free.  That is how they keep support of all the people in the 'west' who go along with this - they also get the benefit of free interstates.

Another old one - old highway 33, now made into 412 east out of Tulsa.  Probably the single deadliest road in this state and one of the last to get straightened and improved.  (Highway 169 north to KS was improved a couple of times over the decades over that road.)  Probably one of the biggest reasons was the business the road brought from northwest AR to Tulsa area - that would give Tulsa area a boost that OKC couldn't get.  So finally after all the overlooks and slights and flat out ignoring what was actually the best thing for the state, 412 got improved.  Into - you guessed it - another turnpike!  Of course.  Literally done only as part of the "deal" to put a 2 lane turnpike from nowhere to nowhere - the Chickasaw turnpike -for some "good ole boy" buddy!  1988 - 1991.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 24, 2018, 04:46:52 PM


It's more NE Oklahoma - Green Country - vs the 'west' side.  North south line going through Stillwater from KS to I-40 an East West from I-40 intersection to AR.  It is a lot like the 'alliances' seen on 'Big Brother' - the rest of the state DOES 'gang up' on northeast OK and we DO get the short end of the stick way too often.  

Some of this goes back more than half a century, and anyone driving out of Tulsa experiences it - turnpikes.  I-35 is free.  I-40 is free.  That is how they keep support of all the people in the 'west' who go along with this - they also get the benefit of free interstates.

Another old one - old highway 33, now made into 412 east out of Tulsa.  Probably the single deadliest road in this state and one of the last to get straightened and improved.  (Highway 169 north to KS was improved a couple of times over the decades over that road.)  Probably one of the biggest reasons was the business the road brought from northwest AR to Tulsa area - that would give Tulsa area a boost that OKC couldn't get.  So finally after all the overlooks and slights and flat out ignoring what was actually the best thing for the state, 412 got improved.  Into - you guessed it - another turnpike!  Of course.  Literally done only as part of the "deal" to put a 2 lane turnpike from nowhere to nowhere - the Chickasaw turnpike -for some "good ole boy" buddy!  1988 - 1991.

On this we agree. When I moved out of Tulsa in 1998 one of things people asked what was something that I don't miss that and I said "Having to pay to leave and get back into Tulsa on a toll road. No matter where I wanted to go, you have to pay both directions for major roads, while in OKC you can go east or west, or north or south and not have to pay."

And HWY 412 should have been named the "Sam Walton Turnpike". That was the worst stretch of road when it was HWY 33 in Oklahoma even in the daytime.

(https://freepressokc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/DSC_0070.jpg)

I remember the Great Banking Hall at First National as a teen.  Neat place, where my mother would give me hundreds of dollars to deposit there; then take checks to pay the utilities for water (city), electric (OG&E) and natural gas (ONG).   It was a relief to get that money deposited in the bank.  Use to ride the 1st East 4th bus (old Douglass High School) from 6th & Stonewall to main street downtown.  

She entrusted us with major household responsibilities.  Taught us first & foremost to pay the bills at the beginning of the month.   Use to keep the money bag hidden on me until I entered 1st National and took the escalators to the Great Banking Hall.  Valued experience growing up with this major responsibility.  'Bring back the deposit receipt...'   My favorite reward; you may stop by Rothchilds' to get you some new shoes and H.L. Greens for lunch; Blacks & Hispanics (I'm mixed) were allowed to eat at the counters back then; following 60s desegregation. It made me feel big time.

Wasn't until the 90s that I realize Oklahoma's banking debacles.  First National was taken over by First Interstate (Los Angeles); then by Boatman's (St. Louis).  Continued banking there after mother's death.  Often walked up those escalators after the bank closed.  They had a sign at the top of the escalators, KEEP OUT.  There were always uninvited guests visiting the Great Banking Hall reminiscing about the activities and traffic that had long since passed.

Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 24, 2018, 06:08:47 PM
On this we agree. When I moved out of Tulsa in 1998 one of things people asked what was something that I don't miss that and I said "Having to pay to leave and get back into Tulsa on a toll road. No matter where I wanted to go, you have to pay both directions for major roads, while in OKC you can go east or west, or north or south and not have to pay."

And HWY 412 should have been named the "Sam Walton Turnpike". That was the worst stretch of road when it was HWY 33 in Oklahoma even in the daytime.

Never could figure out why Tulsa metro was a nest of turnpike toll roads.  Turner, Cimarron, Creek, Will Rogers, Muskogee...

The Turner Turnpike was never meant to be a long standing toll road, it was suppose to pay for itself then become part of the interstate system of highways; however it's the Turnpike Authority's cash cow.

Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 24, 2018, 06:08:47 PM
On this we agree. When I moved out of Tulsa in 1998 one of things people asked what was something that I don't miss that and I said "Having to pay to leave and get back into Tulsa on a toll road. No matter where I wanted to go, you have to pay both directions for major roads, while in OKC you can go east or west, or north or south and not have to pay."

And HWY 412 should have been named the "Sam Walton Turnpike". That was the worst stretch of road when it was HWY 33 in Oklahoma even in the daytime.

412.
It is the Dan P Holmes Memorial Expressway.  He was a local insurance guy lobbied for years to get that abomination fixed - I remember seeing his commercials a LOT!  The 'west' specifically and carefully waited until after he died - 5 years after - before even considering fixing that mess.  And even then, they had to get their 'token' 2 lane turnpike to nowhere.  33 was worst road in state that depended so much on heavy truck traffic and lots of auto traffic.

OK politics are vile.   Elsewhere, much earlier, I described how the whole "scratch my back, I'll scratch yours..." system works in this state - from the 70's.  But maintained intact today.  Used to be you only got a set of carport plans for your $20,000-30,000 "consulting fee".  Don't know what you get today...  Another tax cut, probably.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 24, 2018, 07:27:03 PM

412.
It is the Dan P Holmes Memorial Expressway.  He was a local insurance guy lobbied for years to get that abomination fixed - I remember seeing his commercials a LOT!  The 'west' specifically and carefully waited until after he died - 5 years after - before even considering fixing that mess.  And even then, they had to get their 'token' 2 lane turnpike to nowhere.  33 was worst road in state that depended so much on heavy truck traffic and lots of auto traffic.

OK politics are vile.   Elsewhere, much earlier, I described how the whole "scratch my back, I'll scratch yours..." system works in this state - from the 70's.  But maintained intact today.  Used to be you only got a set of carport plans for your $20,000-30,000 "consulting fee".  Don't know what you get today...  Another tax cut, probably.

Thank you, Dan P. Holmes, couldn't remember the name. When I was growing up in Tulsa (1963-1998) there was Will Rogers, Turner, H.E. Bailey, Cimarron, Indian Nations, and Muskogee turnpikes. Five of them surrounded Tulsa. In the 90's, the Dan P. Holmes and Creek Turnpikes were added to NE Oklahoma, and the Kilpatrick was added to OKC. So that made Tulsa 7, OKC 3. So Tulsa, as usual took it in the shorts for turnpike fees while OKC skated along.

This goes back to the whole Tulsa vs. OKC argument, and while I'm not calling people out specifically, I'm not surprised by the arrogance and snobbery that still continues today by people from OKC. Most of it comes off as a backhanded compliment.

I may disagree on things with people from Tulsa, but I'll sit down and have dinner and drinks with them, people at the intersection of I=35 and I-40, probably not.

Just this former Tulsan's opinion.

Understand the grave concerns and the detrimental affect the unfair raw deals Tulsa has received from the State of Oklahoma in the past.  

Where do we go forward; how do we right those wrongs?  

I'm a forum guest; viewed many posts with legitimate concerns about how badly Tulsa was treated; admitting it was done to Tulsa time and time again.  

Is it fair to continue to bash OKC for past transgressions or to bash either city; no more fair than to bash Tulsa for the race riots of the 1920s.  How far must we go back; it's time to move forward; our history can't be changed or rectified; there is no remedy.

Talked to my ancestors on the family's black side who were promised 40 acres and a mule--what could we do with 40 acres now other than pay taxes on the land; only God knows what anyone would have need of a mule--it certainly can't produce more mules.  Brood about the past; focus that energy toward the stars.

Let us move on and highlight the developments our cities chart for tomorrow; make Tulsa & OKC a place of promise for our children's future and level the playing field.  

Quote from: Laramie on October 25, 2018, 02:18:18 PM
Understand the grave concerns and the detrimental affect the unfair raw deals Tulsa has received from the State of Oklahoma in the past.  

Where do we go forward; how do we right those wrongs?  

I'm a forum guest; viewed many posts with legitimate concerns about how badly Tulsa was treated; admitting it was done to Tulsa time and time again.  

Is it fair to continue to bash OKC for past transgressions or to bash either city; no more fair than to bash Tulsa for the race riots of the 1920s.  How far must we go back; it's time to move forward; our history can't be changed or rectified; there is no remedy.

Talked to my ancestors on the family's black side who were promised 40 acres and a mule--what could we do with 40 acres now other than pay taxes on the land; only God knows what anyone would have need of a mule--it certainly can't produce more mules.  Brood about the past; focus that energy toward the stars.

Let us move on and highlight the developments our cities chart for tomorrow; make Tulsa & OKC a place of promise for our children's future and level the playing field.  

A LOT can be done on much less than 40 acres!!

Have friends who have made livings on 1/2 to 3 acres - and not growing marijuana, either!   Just can't do it with corn, soybeans, wheat, or cattle.   There are a lot of other things can be raised and grown on small plots that can do very well.

And Rogers County taxes on that 40 acres are about $85 a year... not great, but not onerous.  Bare land, AG zoned.  Don't know about Tulsa Cty.




As for how far to go back - good general question, for the entire gamut of human endeavor.  Israelis go back 2,000 years, but expect Palestinians to NOT go back even 80 years.  Right wingers go back to Clinton, but expect lefties not to go back to Bush or even Trump 5 days ago.  And most "originalists" pretty much wallow in the last 240 years - since 1776, but expect the black people and indigenous people to "get over it" - "it" being the last 400+ years...   As always, he who kills the most gets to write the history books.

The main point is - and always has been - to KNOW and UNDERSTAND history so there is at least a chance of doing better.  We, on the other, regress.  And still do pretty much nothing to level the playing field.  No meaningful change will occur until we follow the original plan... Oklahoma and Sequoyah.  Two state solution.  We would have been right at the edge.   Oh, and guess who opposed that to begin with - Republicontins, of course.

I feel like we have begun "turning the corner" so to speak.  Just hope we keep it up.  I think the "One Voice" initiative in which the Tulsa area unites around a few ideas and pushes and pushes and pushes for them, is a good start.  We just need to keep at it.

I can also like the general Republican "Less government and what government there is, closer to the people." ideals.  If they just really meant that, but at least we can push for it or call them out when they get hypocritical.  I would love to see the state cut taxes and allow cities, counties etc. to have more power to tax or do more with the taxes they already can levy (pay teachers more for instance).

There seems to be a dual path that has emerged in Tulsa.  1. The above, being more organized and weakening/working to get more power from the State. 2. Just forgetting about the State all together and doing our own thing via philanthropy, teaming up with local businesses, local organizations, etc. Just pretend like the State doesn't exist and rock and roll!

I created the gateway for the grand opening of the Gathering Place and was there behind the scenes to open the gates. I thought it was interesting watching the body language of the different dignitaries there that day. Kaiser was enjoying himself and had throngs of smiling people around him. Mary Fallin kind of stood around practically alone looking like she would have rather been anywhere else but there.  One of the greatest city parks in the nation and we were like, "Yea, this is what we did and can do on our own. What are you even doing here?"

Quote from: TheArtist on October 25, 2018, 09:38:36 PM


I created the gateway for the grand opening of the Gathering Place and was there behind the scenes to open the gates. I thought it was interesting watching the body language of the different dignitaries there that day. Kaiser was enjoying himself and had throngs of smiling people around him. Mary Fallin kind of stood around practically alone looking like she would have rather been anywhere else but there.  One of the greatest city parks in the nation and we were like, "Yea, this is what we did and can do on our own. What are you even doing here?"

Sounds a bit awkward. I can't imagine a less popular place for her to be!

And don't forget Mary Fallin, the most unpopular governor in the country, represented Oklahoma City's district in the state house before she got into state-wide offices. Might've been why Tulsa nominated a Tulsan over OKC's mayor this time around.


That was an awesome gate! Great job with the design that fit the styling of the park perfectly. I wish it was a permanent gate.

IMO the country is getting tired of the current political climate.   The non career inexperienced politicians who come in don't know enough (especially those who have never held any government office) to avoid the early pitfalls.

We are in a time of challenge for National, State & Local governments.   In Mary Fallin's case, she wasn't dealt the best hand; there weren't any choices she made that would have produced good results--choose the lesser of evils.

Our state & cities will rebound; our biggest challenge will be the management of decisions while the economic climate is good.

As a former teacher,  AFT union rep, junior college instructor & public school administrator, Oklahoma has always put teacher pay on the back burner.  This isn't a result of the last decade--goes back to the mid 70s.

If you plan to enter the teaching field (many intrinsic rewards) make sure you join an organization (OEA, AFT) with professional liability insurance benefits.   They're many quicksand pits; regardless of your good intentions could backfire and end your career.

Quote from: Laramie on October 27, 2018, 02:09:15 PM
As a former teacher,  AFT union rep, junior college instructor & public school administrator, Oklahoma has always put teacher pay on the back burner.  This isn't a result of the last decade--goes back to the mid 70s.

If you plan to enter the teaching field (many intrinsic rewards) make sure you join an organization (OEA, AFT) with professional liability insurance benefits.   They're many quicksand pits; regardless of your good intentions could backfire and end your career.

Hostility to education in Oklahoma is a lot older than that. It was written into the state constitution. Remember the only bond issues that require a 60% supermajority are ones for education.

Quote from: swake on October 27, 2018, 02:40:45 PM
Hostility to education in Oklahoma is a lot older than that. It was written into the state constitution. Remember the only bond issues that require a 60% supermajority are ones for education.

Far more of a concern is that some school districts aren't passing millage levies anymore since most of the children in the property areas affected do not have children in the schools.

Oklahoma City Streetcar testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ur9rZwQeIg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ur9rZwQeIg)

Quote from: Laramie on October 27, 2018, 05:49:46 PM
Oklahoma City Streetcar testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ur9rZwQeIg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ur9rZwQeIg)

That looks just great, really a home run for OKC. I hope people in Tulsa are very jealous and demand something even better.

Quote from: swake on October 27, 2018, 08:10:32 PM
That looks just great, really a home run for OKC. I hope people in Tulsa are very jealous and demand something even better.

Don't think it's a matter of jealousy. Tulsa has some hilly areas that remind me of San Fransisco, just not sure what areas would benefit from streetcar transit.  Your downtown street foot traffic wasn't destroyed by an underground concourse. 

A Tulsa modern streetcar system would IMHO be a success.

Scissortail Park construction Downtown OKC:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBytF3D0KeQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBytF3D0KeQ)

(https://www.thelostogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/mapspark.jpg) (https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/sky-dance-bridge-1508865505.jpg?resize=980:*)
The $132 million downtown park will cover 70+ acres with a lower part of the park that will cross I-40 connected by the Skydance Pedestrian Bridge.

(http://www.sweetpeaces.info/wp-content/uploads/myriad-botanical-gardens-history-myriad-botanical-gardens.jpg)
Myriad Botanical Gardens north of $132 million Scissortail Park & west of the new $288 million convention center.

(https://s21406.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/cvb_16.jpg)
Construction has begun on the  605 room Omni hotel with the convention center also under construction in the background. The $241 million project is a public-private partnership between Omni & the City. Oklahoma City wiil pay $85 million of the construction costs thru bonds paid of in 25 years.

There will be a enormous revitalization of both Oklahoma City & Tulsa over the next 10 years.  OKC passed $800 million in bonds that will replace & repair roads, streets, drainage & bridges over the next 10 years.

Quote from: Laramie on October 27, 2018, 09:25:06 PM
Don't think it's a matter of jealousy. Tulsa has some hilly areas that remind me of San Fransisco, just not sure what areas would benefit from streetcar transit.  Your downtown street foot traffic wasn't destroyed by an underground concourse.  

A Tulsa modern streetcar system would IMHO be a success.

I'm not saying that  jealousy is part of anything yet. I'm hoping that there will be some jealousy once the system is up and running. Jealousy can be a powerful motivator. Tulsa tried for 10 years to get a new arena and voted new arenas down in 97 and 2000. Then The Ford Center opened in 2002 and suddenly Tulsa had to have an even better arena and in 2003 the vote for what became the BOK Center passed with 62% of the vote.

I expect that transit will be similar.

Each city pushes the other to be better, it's a good thing.

Quote from: swake on October 28, 2018, 05:20:58 PM
I'm not saying that  jealousy is part of anything yet. I'm hoping that there will be some jealousy once the system is up and running. Jealousy can be a powerful motivator. Tulsa tried for 10 years to get a new arena and voted new arenas down in 97 and 2000. Then The Ford Center opened in 2002 and suddenly Tulsa had to have an even better arena and in 2003 the vote for what became the BOK Center passed with 62% of the vote.

I expect that transit will be similar.

Each city pushes the other to be better, it's a good thing.

Exactly, and I hope the OKC streetcar is a success and we can find a way to do something similar in Tulsa.  I like Bynum overall but he isn't a transit advocate and we need one in the mayor's office to get a project like that off the ground.

The Gathering Place absolutely had an impact on OKC wanting and now building a comparable urban park (Scissortail).  OKC also didn't have a RiverParks system so they built one basically from scratch and have done some things I wish we could be doing more of with our river (river cruises, dams with locks, boathouses, zipline, river rafting course, etc)

Quote from: Laramie on October 28, 2018, 04:37:57 PM
Scissortail Park construction Downtown OKC:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBytF3D0KeQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBytF3D0KeQ)

(https://www.thelostogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/mapspark.jpg) (https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/sky-dance-bridge-1508865505.jpg?resize=980:*)
The $132 million downtown park will cover 70+ acres with a lower part of the park that will cross I-40 connected by the Skydance Pedestrian Bridge.

(http://www.sweetpeaces.info/wp-content/uploads/myriad-botanical-gardens-history-myriad-botanical-gardens.jpg)
Myriad Botanical Gardens north of $132 million Scissortail Park & west of the new $288 million convention center.

(https://s21406.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/cvb_16.jpg)
Construction has begun on the  605 room Omni hotel with the convention center also under construction in the background. The $241 million project is a public-private partnership between Omni & the City. Oklahoma City wiil pay $85 million of the construction costs thru bonds paid of in 25 years.

There will be a enormous revitalization of both Oklahoma City & Tulsa over the next 10 years.  OKC passed $800 million in bonds that will replace & repair roads, streets, drainage & bridges over the next 10 years.

As for the new hotel and convention center. It looks very nice, but that's a ton of money be spent there. It seems to me that there will be a lot of lost opportunity with what that money could have been spent on. I'm not sure that spending huge dollars on convention faculties makes sense outside just a handful of cities.

The big shows go to the major tourist cities and there is zero way that Oklahoma City, or any similar city, can compete with places like Vegas, Orlando, Chicago and San Francisco. It's not an insult, it's just the truth. Even the Dallas-Ft Worth area, an "alpha" world city, struggles to attract conventions and they have 8 million people and one of the world's busiest and best connected airports. I hope it works, but OKC is gambling with a ton of public money.

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-ceo/2017/october/dallas-fort-worth-convention-center-hotel-growth/

Definitely a huge gamble; not to mention the $40 million 865 space parking garage & 500 slots allotted for surface parking will provide 1,365 parking spaces.   Someone forgot to include parking for the convention center & Omni hotel. There will be projected contingency fund money left over from MAP III imitative since sales tax collections are up.

OKC will pay $85 million & Omni will provide $157 million on the hotel.  Omni will have 605 rooms and Tulsa developer Andy Pratel's 133 room Fairfield Inn & Suites (under construction) will account for 735 rooms for the new convention center.   Omni did receive some perks; the Cox Convention Center can't be used as the city's primary convention center.

They did plan for expansion of the new convention center & hotel.   Omni will have 1st rights if a hotel is built on the current 4-square block Cox Convention Center (Old Myriad) site.  The Chesapeake Energy Arena can't expand its premium suites & seating; therefore MAP 4 initiative may include a new NBA arena once the Cox CC arena is demolished.

You could see $500 million to $700 million on a new NBA arena; not to mention the $100 million to $300 million the Thunder would be asked to partner with the city for a new venue.

Quote from: Laramie on October 28, 2018, 06:42:01 PM
You could see $500 million to $700 million on a new NBA arena; not to mention the $100 million to $300 million the Thunder would be asked to partner with the city for a new venue.

Why? What possible benefit could there be to the city to replace the perfectly serviceable and in very good condition newish current arena? I don't buy that idea that you can't add suites and do the Thunder actually make much money on the cheap seats? the only seats that a new arena could give you would be the cheapest ones at the very top, so who cares? For $500 million?

I get the 'Peake isn't the most attractive building, but it's certainly not ugly and it's in good shape and plenty large. Didn't OKC just spend $100 million or something to redo it and make it more attractive? It's ended up kind of an architectural hodgepodge but it's fine, it's quite nice on the inside, isn't that what matters? Madison Square Garden is downright ugly and I don't hear anyone wanting to replace it. I wouldn't think that the best use of that kind of money would be a new arena.

OKC just needs to take the lesson that aesthetics matter, so for the next project stop building cheap and utilitarian the first time. $500 million is an amount that do great things for OKC to make the city better for its residents. Replacing the arena with a showplace so it looks slightly better on a couple of exterior shots during games on TNT moves that needle very little.

Quote from: swake on October 28, 2018, 07:22:34 PM
Why? What possible benefit could there be to the city to replace the perfectly serviceable and in very good condition newish current arena? I don't buy that idea that you can't add suites and do the Thunder actually make much money on the cheap seats? the only seats that a new arena could give you would be the cheapest ones at the very top, so who cares? For $500 million?

I get the 'Peake isn't the most attractive building, but it's certainly not ugly and it's in good shape and plenty large. Didn't OKC just spend $100 million or something to redo it and make it more attractive? It's ended up kind of an architectural hodgepodge but it's fine, it's quite nice on the inside, isn't that what matters? Madison Square Garden is downright ugly and I don't hear anyone wanting to replace it. I wouldn't think that the best use of that kind of money would be a new arena.

OKC just needs to take the lesson that aesthetics matter, so for the next project stop building cheap and utilitarian the first time. $500 million is an amount that do great things for OKC to make the city better for its residents. Replacing the arena with a showplace so it looks slightly better on a couple of exterior shots during games on TNT moves that needle very little.

Oklahoma Thunder: "We need a new arena, the facilities inside do not meet the standard of other newer arenas. Build it or we will leave."

This is typical with pro sports. The Arizona Diamondbacks threatened to leave if improvements were not made to their now 20 year old stadium.

Quotehe Arizona Diamondbacks can leave Chase Field and end the team's 20-year residence at the downtown Phoenix stadium as early as 2022, Maricopa County leaders decided Wednesday.

The county Board of Supervisors passed the agreement 4-1 a week after making the deal public, ending a longstanding lawsuit. It allows the team to immediately start looking for another home in exchange for dropping its demand for the county to pay up to $187 million in stadium upgrades.

Under the agreement, if the Diamondbacks found a new location in Maricopa County, the team could leave Chase Field without penalty in 2022, five years earlier than the team's current contract.

A new stadium built on tribal land, an idea that has been rumored, would have to charge the same taxes as currently charged at Chase Field, according to the agreement.

If the Diamondbacks left Arizona after 2022, the team would have to pay penalties of between $5 million and $25 million.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2018/05/09/diamondbacks-allowed-seek-alternatives-chase-field/597057002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2018/05/09/diamondbacks-allowed-seek-alternatives-chase-field/597057002/)

Per the streetcar and such. 

I think the most important thing is creating pedestrian lively, transit/cycle friendly areas.   You could create a super wonderful core without any streetcars.  You can create some wonderfully attractive, lively and walkable areas that would allow you to have everything you need within easy walking/biking distance.  Throw in some busses and you can be great.  Throw in Uber and cycling and you got it.  I have been to other cities around the world that have areas larger than our downtown and mid-town that don't have streetcars or subways in them but (have them nearby to other parts of the city or to other cities) are fantastic, classic pedestrian and transit centric cities/areas. 

We either need to focus on zoning and or educating (educating our population/developers, architects, people at city hall, etc.) on good urban design and make that our development religion.
I think this is already an area where we are doing better than OKC (mostly because we have a decent amount of people that "get it") and if we keep up heading in that direction, someday all those little "small pieces" will mesh together into something really great.

I used to love the idea of a streetcar or trolley but now I have gotten to the point where I can see we don't really need that. From one end of downtown to another is an easy walk (or scooter lol) so no need for a trolley there really.  We get people all the time into DECOPOLIS in the heart of downtown from Europe and when I tell them about Cherry Street for instance and how far it is they are like "Oh, no problem, we will just walk there."  And like I said, I have now traveled enough to see that from Downtown to Brookside to Cherry Street and Utica Square, TU, etc. all of that is so close together and if developed right we can really connect them better as well. 

Quote from: TheArtist on October 28, 2018, 09:05:13 PM
Per the streetcar and such. 

I think the most important thing is creating pedestrian lively, transit/cycle friendly areas.   You could create a super wonderful core without any streetcars.  You can create some wonderfully attractive, lively and walkable areas that would allow you to have everything you need within easy walking/biking distance.  Throw in some busses and you can be great.  Throw in Uber and cycling and you got it.  I have been to other cities around the world that have areas larger than our downtown and mid-town that don't have streetcars or subways in them but (have them nearby to other parts of the city or to other cities) are fantastic, classic pedestrian and transit centric cities/areas. 

We either need to focus on zoning and or educating (educating our population/developers, architects, people at city hall, etc.) on good urban design and make that our development religion.
I think this is already an area where we are doing better than OKC (mostly because we have a decent amount of people that "get it") and if we keep up heading in that direction, someday all those little "small pieces" will mesh together into something really great.

I used to love the idea of a streetcar or trolley but now I have gotten to the point where I can see we don't really need that. From one end of downtown to another is an easy walk (or scooter lol) so no need for a trolley there really.  We get people all the time into DECOPOLIS in the heart of downtown from Europe and when I tell them about Cherry Street for instance and how far it is they are like "Oh, no problem, we will just walk there."  And like I said, I have now traveled enough to see that from Downtown to Brookside to Cherry Street and Utica Square, TU, etc. all of that is so close together and if developed right we can really connect them better as well. 

The thing about rail is it creates denser development. When planning a new rail system you need to mix between connecting existing places to create demand and then traveling past empty land for development. Rail through its very presence encourages dense infill. Oklahoma City is doing a good job of this. I would traffic calm Cheyenne and 4th, remove three lanes of car traffic from each for dedicated rail and run it north to Pine, south to 15th and east to TU and west across the river to the OSU Health Sciences Center.

SXSW - OKC has planned the park since the 2005 "Core to Shore" feasibility study.  The park was fully conceptulized in 2007 and placed on the Maps 3 ballot in fall of 2009.  The Gathering Place had  ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with the planning of this park.  The MAPS process dictates the money must be collected prior to the project starting and the park was always intended to start in 2018 with completion of phase 1 in 2019 and phase 2 in 2020.  The Gathering Place was announced in 2012.

https://okcommerce.gov/newpioneer/oklahomas-metro-areas-adding-quality-of-life-amenities/

Lots of misinformation on this forum.

Laramie-  You should know better as you frequent OKC Talk.  There is absolutely zero chance of a arena for the Thunder being included in the MAPS 4 initiative.  The Peake is very nice on the interior.  Also,  the Thunder, Chamber and Council have not even mentioned it. 

Expect MAPS 4 to include a new arena in the fair grounds to replace the existing arena and extensions for the street car, regional transit and public education.

More misinformation

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on October 28, 2018, 10:50:08 PM
SXSW - OKC has planned the park since the 2005 "Core to Shore" feasibility study.  The park was fully conceptulized in 2007 and placed on the Maps 3 ballot in fall of 2009.  The Gathering Place had  ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with the planning of this park.  The MAPS process dictates the money must be collected prior to the project starting and the park was always intended to start in 2018 with completion of phase 1 in 2019 and phase 2 in 2020.  The Gathering Place was announced in 2012.

https://okcommerce.gov/newpioneer/oklahomas-metro-areas-adding-quality-of-life-amenities/

Lots of misinformation on this forum.

Maybe not but the design for Scissortail Park wasn't finalized until 2013.  And there was this article in the Daily Oklahoman lamenting how OKC's park would be nowhere near as nice as the Gathering Place: https://newsok.com/article/3924209/who-is-excited-about-the-future-core-to-shore-park (https://newsok.com/article/3924209/who-is-excited-about-the-future-core-to-shore-park)

Again, the park was being planned and conceptualized as early as 2005.  OKC can lament all they want but that is what you get when you spend 132 million versus 465 million.  The Gathering Place had absolutely ZERO to do with Scissortail Parks design or planning.

I believe the MAPS park serves a completely different purpose than the Gathering Place.  The MAPS park will not be as highly programmed as The Gathering Place.   The MAPS park is intended to spur more development around the park ala Central Park in NYC.  The key will be the "Strawberry Fields" development to the west of the park and future development in and around the lower section of the park.  Strawberry Fields has already accumulated over 50 million worth of property to the west of the park and are planning a massive mixed use development.  Which is where IKEA was originally sniffing around.  Also, there has been a substantial amount of land acquisition around the lower section of the park.  Expect a lot of infill with dense development in the next 10-15 years.

Quote from: TheArtist on October 28, 2018, 09:05:13 PM
Per the streetcar and such. 
We get people all the time into DECOPOLIS in the heart of downtown from Europe and when I tell them about Cherry Street for instance and how far it is they are like "Oh, no problem, we will just walk there."  

Americans don't walk.  I think a downtown circulator will be necessary for OKC to Tulsa rail success regardless of whether the circulator is rail or rubber tires. I would like (real) trolleys or light rail to connect the various hot spots in Tulsa but it's beyond my capability to predict if it would be a financial success. Maybe we just need to to it as a social service.

The MAPS park is intended to attract and spur more development that will ultimately add more residents to the core.  OKC has a lot of neglected property in the core ripe for redevelopment.  They are doing a good job with redevelopment and infill but the market has to catch up to accelerate the growth.  Inner city schools are still a huge impediment for many to relocate in the core and that fact has kept for sale residential development from exploding.  However, this park and additional public investment will soon accelerate the pace of redevelopment.

The streetcars were among our visions with MAPS I; we didn't get the federal grant needed to help plan the 1st streetcar; Salt Lake City got that money for their streetcar roll out for their winter Olympic games.

We went with the Vintage Rubber bus tire trolleys for downtown.  They were unpopular; we were hyped for the streetcar which had we gotten--expansion talk would be the topic of conversation now.  Also who knows, maybe we weren't ready for the streetcar and it would have failed.  Will admit that OKC officials have learned from early MAPS 1, 2 and Hoops initiatives.

OKC is a victim of its own success.  The popularity of future MAPS initiatives are being questioned.  Instead of having multiple projects on MAPS for which the initiative became so popular because most voted yes because they had a project they liked on the ballot, we are now IMHO seeing people who don't want certain items on there--they are threatening to vote no.  Might be just a few disgruntled voters.

IMO, I still say Tulsa is ripe for a streetcar.  Light rail tracks now run $13 million or more per linear mile--it's not going to get any cheaper in price.  I sense some posters don't want a streetcar because OKC has one.  The streetcar will be a great item for downtown transit.  Everyone knows how difficult it is to get around downtown once you park.  Tulsa could use a streetcar; build one for Tulsa--not because you want OKC to be envious.   OKC didn't have Tulsa in mind when we voted for MAPS in the 90s.  We saw a big old raggedy, ugly town getting uglier by the degrees--losing tons of young professionals to Texas along with Fortune 500/1000 companies.  We have a lot to do in OKC. It's a balancing act between needs & some wants like the streetcar which many here consider more of a novelty item.

Quote from: Laramie on October 29, 2018, 10:31:07 AM
The streetcars were among our visions with MAPS I; we didn't get the federal grant needed to help plan the 1st streetcar; Salt Lake City got that money for their streetcar roll out for their winter Olympic games.

We went with the Vintage Rubber bus tire trolleys for downtown.  They were unpopular; we were hyped for the streetcar which had we gotten--expansion talk would be the topic of conversation now.  Also who knows, maybe we weren't ready for the streetcar and it would have failed.  Will admit that OKC officials have learned from early MAPS 1, 2 and Hoops initiatives.

OKC is a victim of its own success.  The popularity of future MAPS initiatives are being questioned.  Instead of having multiple projects on MAPS for which the initiative became so popular because most voted yes because they had a project they liked on the ballot, we are now IMHO seeing people who don't want certain items on there--they are threatening to vote no.  Might be just a few disgruntled voters.

IMO, I still say Tulsa is ripe for a streetcar.  Light rail tracks now run $13 million or more per linear mile--it's not going to get any cheaper in price.  I sense some posters don't want a streetcar because OKC has one.  The streetcar will be a great item for downtown transit.  Everyone knows how difficult it is to get around downtown once you park.  Tulsa could use a streetcar; build one for Tulsa--not because you want OKC to be envious.   OKC didn't have Tulsa in mind when we voted for MAPS in the 90s.  We saw a big old raggedy, ugly town getting uglier by the degrees--losing tons of young professionals to Texas along with Fortune 500/1000 companies.  We have a lot to do in OKC. It's a balancing act between needs & some wants like the streetcar which many here consider more of a novelty item.

When the Boulder Ave. bridge was rebuilt in 2013 it was designed for future fixed-rail streetcars which would be a major additional cost after-the-fact.  I imagine city leaders want to see how the OKC streetcar does and use that as a case study to plan a  downtown Tulsa circulator.  If you connected the Arts District to Blue Dome to the Arena District (Brady/Archer couplet, Detroit/Cincinnati couplet, 3rd/4th couplet and Boulder) you would have about a 2 mile system so ~$30 million for what would could eventually be extended south to Riverview/Cherry Street/Gathering Place and east to TU along a revitalized 11th St/Rt 66.

OKC streetcars cost $5 million each, our contractor was Brookville, PA.  Think we have six streetcars (2 each, Redbud, Bermuda Green & Clear Sky Blue) for a 6 plus miles of track that covers Downtown-Midtown 4.9 miles and the 2 mile Bricktown loop.  Expensive and risky investment for a streetcar system in the core.

Oklahoma City Streetcar:  https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/projects/modern-streetcar-transit (https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/projects/modern-streetcar-transit)

We anticipate a successful a rollout. Tentative costs to ride the cars will be  Measures will address concerns to deal with vagrants who board the streetcars as with the buses who use them as an all day ride & shelter.

Budget: $131 million
     
     Maintenance & storage facility:  $5.4 million
     6.9 miles tracks $57.2 million
     6 streetcars $30 million

IIRC the OKC streetcar system can be converted to run off-wire.

Tulsa could probably start up with a system that covers 4 plus miles; your districts are more closer than OKC's.  Would estimate initial cost to be $80 million - $100 million.

Interesting discussion yesterday with a friend who works in the medical equipment industry - Varian.  I have been "jawboning" two of their people I know for quite a while now to look at NE Oklahoma for a possible location to move manufacturing from high priced Bay Area CA.  Have gone through the entire list of pros/cons repeatedly with both, from technically trained workforce to lower cost of just about everything.  The type of places that might be considered would be Las Vegas.  Denver.  Atlanta.  Orlando.  Dallas/Ft Worth.  Not Oklahoma. 

And yesterday was the first time we have finally gotten to the true core of the matter - why they and other 'high value' equipment manufacturers will never move to Oklahoma.  I was literally told there is 'no draw there' - neither in OKC nor Tulsa areas.  By that, there is no high-end tourist type 'attraction' that would get their clients/customers interested in visiting the place for training, factory visits, etc.  Or even to get people to move here to work, if there were specific jobs that needed particular people.   I mentioned casinos but the counter was that Las Vegas has casinos....

If one of us gets an IKEA, that may all change - we might have a shot.!!


By the way, that is also why Amazon would never come here, too!

Quote from: Laramie on October 29, 2018, 10:31:07 AM
The streetcars were among our visions with MAPS I; we didn't get the federal grant needed to help plan the 1st streetcar; Salt Lake City got that money for their streetcar roll out for their winter Olympic games.

We went with the Vintage Rubber bus tire trolleys for downtown.  They were unpopular; we were hyped for the streetcar which had we gotten--expansion talk would be the topic of conversation now.  Also who knows, maybe we weren't ready for the streetcar and it would have failed.  Will admit that OKC officials have learned from early MAPS 1, 2 and Hoops initiatives.

OKC is a victim of its own success.  The popularity of future MAPS initiatives are being questioned.  Instead of having multiple projects on MAPS for which the initiative became so popular because most voted yes because they had a project they liked on the ballot, we are now IMHO seeing people who don't want certain items on there--they are threatening to vote no.  Might be just a few disgruntled voters.

IMO, I still say Tulsa is ripe for a streetcar.  Light rail tracks now run $13 million or more per linear mile--it's not going to get any cheaper in price.  I sense some posters don't want a streetcar because OKC has one.  The streetcar will be a great item for downtown transit.  Everyone knows how difficult it is to get around downtown once you park.  Tulsa could use a streetcar; build one for Tulsa--not because you want OKC to be envious.   OKC didn't have Tulsa in mind when we voted for MAPS in the 90s.  We saw a big old raggedy, ugly town getting uglier by the degrees--losing tons of young professionals to Texas along with Fortune 500/1000 companies.  We have a lot to do in OKC. It's a balancing act between needs & some wants like the streetcar which many here consider more of a novelty item.

I don't know who this "Everyone knows how difficult it is to get around downtown once you park." people are. Most people I know or have ever heard talk about downtown never mention that.

Quote from: Red Arrow on October 28, 2018, 11:52:13 PM
Americans don't walk.  I think a downtown circulator will be necessary for OKC to Tulsa rail success regardless of whether the circulator is rail or rubber tires. I would like (real) trolleys or light rail to connect the various hot spots in Tulsa but it's beyond my capability to predict if it would be a financial success. Maybe we just need to to it as a social service.

Americans will walk and do walk.  Ever been to Disney World or NYC?  I could also name a hundred other examples. Lots of people from our neck of the woods don't walk in Tulsa because...

1.  We haven't designed our city to be a place that is easy and comfortable to walk in.
2. We have instead designed a city that makes it easy and comfortable to get around in using a car, at the expense of the pedestrian.
3. Our culture is used to 1 & 2 so even in the small "starter pedestrian areas" we do have going people are idiots about them.

Quote from: swake on October 28, 2018, 10:06:29 PM
The thing about rail is it creates denser development. When planning a new rail system you need to mix between connecting existing places to create demand and then traveling past empty land for development. Rail through its very presence encourages dense infill. Oklahoma City is doing a good job of this. I would traffic calm Cheyenne and 4th, remove three lanes of car traffic from each for dedicated rail and run it north to Pine, south to 15th and east to TU and west across the river to the OSU Health Sciences Center.

You can have all the "denser development" in the world and it still be a miserable place I wouldn't want to live in.  

I still say, creating great places that people will want to walk and bike in is first and best priority.

I go to Dallas all the time and see density that we could only dream of. High-rises out the wazoo in some areas. Nobody walking, horrid experience. Even the areas around their transit stations seem fake and devoid of real urban life. Dallas is just a high-rise suburbia. Its not a real city. I know smaller cities than Tulsa that offer better, safer, more lively, enjoyable, more beautiful, attractive and competitive urban lifestyles.

Our zoning is mostly auto centric.  We have NO pedestrian/transit zoning anywhere in the city. None.  Zilch. 

We now have some areas that "allow" pedestrian/transit type developments to occur.  But any moron could see what might happen over time to these small islands of pedestrian/ transit "allowed" in an ocean only auto centric zoning. They will flounder and struggle. Tulsa has so much potential. If we do things right, we could be fantastic. We are not reaching our full potential and not going anywhere as fast as we could be.

Quote from: TheArtist on October 29, 2018, 09:55:41 PM
Americans will walk and do walk.  Ever been to Disney World or NYC?  I could also name a hundred other examples.

I agree Americans will walk around in the districts but I don't see Americans walking from the Blue Dome to Cherry St or a similar distance.
https://goo.gl/maps/yw3ZnjrSmhm

Been to Disney World, Disney Land and Universal Studios in FL. Lots of walking but it was, as I remember (long time ago), like walking around a district or maybe Blue Dome to the Arts District.

NYC was long ago too.  Our family went to the NYC Boat Show a few years. Dad had it all planned out.  Drive to the park and ride in NJ, take the bus to NYC, then I think the subway to the boat show.  I think we did walk to dinner since the cabs wouldn't take 5 (Mom, Dad, 3 kids).  I don't remember how we got back to the bus to get back to the park and ride.  I was in Chicago about 20 years ago for a trade show. Several of us took a cab to some bars.  I think we walked back to the hotel.  I had no idea of how to get from here to there so I followed the leader.

Quote from: Laramie on October 29, 2018, 02:54:05 PM
OKC streetcars cost $5 million each, our contractor was Brookville, PA. 

Streetcars last a lot longer than rubber tire buses.  I think streetcars average 30 years but SEPTA ran some early 1930s cars into the 70s.  I believe the 1940s cars ran to the mid 1980s.  Brookville has rebuilt several PCC trolleys with new running gear for San Francisco, Philadelphia and I think a few others.  https://www.brookvillecorp.com/streetcar-restoration.asp

QuoteIIRC the OKC streetcar system can be converted to run off-wire.

I think it can run for some distance off wire where the wire is impractical.

Quote from: Laramie on October 29, 2018, 10:31:07 AM
The streetcars were among our visions with MAPS I; we didn't get the federal grant needed to help plan the 1st streetcar; Salt Lake City got that money for their streetcar roll out for their winter Olympic games.

I believe even now OKC is footing the bill because you are using Girder Rail in the streets, which is the correct rail to use.  The last I saw, no Girder rail is made in the USA which means that you cannot use it if you get federal funding.  (Unless that has changed since I last looked a couple of years ago.)
http://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=%2fdl75omG&id=835136469A7FC50CA50952367528A1E4C4BE174B&thid=OIP._dl75omGdamYPsH9enbVagHaFj&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fmaxfaqs.files.wordpress.com%2f2010%2f10%2fimg_7868.jpg&exph=768&expw=1024&q=girder+rail&simid=607999477198489934&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0

QuoteWe went with the Vintage Rubber bus tire trolleys for downtown.  They were unpopular; we were hyped for the streetcar which had we gotten--expansion talk would be the topic of conversation now.  Also who knows, maybe we weren't ready for the streetcar and it would have failed.  Will admit that OKC officials have learned from early MAPS 1, 2 and Hoops initiatives.

Those buses are good for short term things like the shuttle to events like Octoberfest but rarely hold a ridership for continuous use.

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/large960_blur-c3f45bd2d7d3ba504fa14299191dd1f7.jpg)
Larentay Walker, one of the construction workers who installed the rail, signs a rail Thursday at NW 5 and Robinson in downtown Oklahoma City. From Staff Reports
Published: Fri, October 26, 2018 5:00 AM[Photos by Sarah Phipps, The Oklahoman]

QuoteThe Oklahoma City Liberty Streetcars offer seating for up to 30 passengers and the capacity to comfortably transport up to 100 passengers. Notably, the Liberty Streetcars feature more than 70 percent American content, meaning they would meet Buy America compliance if the project is awarded Federal funding in the future.

Brookville Equipment Corporation Delivers First of Seven Liberty Streetcars to Oklahoma City for MAPS 3 Modern Streetcar Program:  https://www.brookvillecorp.com/BROOKVILLE-Delivers-First-OKC-Liberty-Streetcar.asp?news=news-streetcar.asp (https://www.brookvillecorp.com/BROOKVILLE-Delivers-First-OKC-Liberty-Streetcar.asp?news=news-streetcar.asp)

(https://i2.wp.com/okiehomegirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Oklahoma-City-Streetcar.jpg?resize=1024%2C683)
Embark hosted a Oklahoma City Streetcar open house Monday, April 2, 2018:  http://okiehomegirl.com/oklahoma-city-streetcar-2/ (http://okiehomegirl.com/oklahoma-city-streetcar-2/)


For first 3 weeks, streetcar will be free:  https://newsok.com/article/5613926/for-first-3-weeks-streetcar-will-be-free (https://newsok.com/article/5613926/for-first-3-weeks-streetcar-will-be-free)

Oklahoma Streetcar (Youtube Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8gnRi-3QSA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8gnRi-3QSA)

Looks like the light rail cars we have.

(http://www.jtbell.net/transit/images/Phoenix/McDowell.jpg)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar110318.jpg)
Oklahoma City Streetcar maintenance & storage facility with the I-40 E/W Crosstown interstate upper left. Pic via OKCTalk Transportation, Streetcar thread.  11-04-2018

Quote from: Laramie on November 08, 2018, 01:32:28 PM
Oklahoma City Streetcar maintenance & storage facility with the I-40 E/W Crosstown interstate upper left. Pic via OKCTalk Transportation, Streetcar thread.  11-04-2018

what does this have to do with Ikea rumor? Can we please kill this thread or rename it OKC general discussion?

Entire thread created about an Ikea rumor that was completely false and turned into a OKC vs Tulsa debate and now a general OKC discussion.

QuoteAnd yesterday was the first time we have finally gotten to the true core of the matter - why they and other 'high value' equipment manufacturers will never move to Oklahoma.  I was literally told there is 'no draw there' - neither in OKC nor Tulsa areas.  By that, there is no high-end tourist type 'attraction' that would get their clients/customers interested in visiting the place for training, factory visits, etc.  Or even to get people to move here to work, if there were specific jobs that needed particular people.   I mentioned casinos but the counter was that Las Vegas has casinos....

It's always interesting to me when people from other states, especially coastal ones, think there's nothing going on here. I work for a company with a fairly large "temporary" office in Tulsa, where the majority of employees are from the Northeast. Most of them are completely surprised at how nice it is here and how it's really not that different form any larger city they're used to. If anything they comment how nice everyone is, how there's very little traffic, how it's a great place to raise their kids, and how they can still have plenty of entertainment and things to do like they would back home. Several of them have volunteered to stay when a permanent office is eventually built.

It's all part of the stereotypes and national narratives about "flyover country". Unfortunately, whether it's true or not, it keeps people uninterested in the city, state, and region. That's why I think there needs to be a constant effort to market the city to both people and companies and to push for things that bring consistent national attention to change the above mindset.

The IKEA rumor is not false.  IKEA has been inquiring into a site for OKC.  Fact.

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on November 09, 2018, 02:12:41 PM
The IKEA rumor is not false.  IKEA has been inquiring into a site for OKC.  Fact.

IKEA is not expanding the United States. All planned and prospective stores not already under construction as of mid 2018 were canceled. All of them.

Not going to argue.  There were discussions as far back as 2017 and they inquired about a site in DT OKC.  Apparently, another inquiry was made mid summer in North OKC at Chisholm Creek.  I never said it was for sure happening.  I simply confirmed they have been sniffing around.   Additionally, site selection can take a long time.  See the original Costco location in OKC 6 years ago.  I simply know they have inquired.  Fact.   Also, what if they shift away from a retail site to a centrally located distribution facility in OKC.  Possibly to facilitate the shift to e-commerce?  Possibly to support the 5 locations in Texas? Hmmm. I know a city with a recent Fed Ex expansion and Amazon expansion near an airport and major highways with a city and airport trust eagerly awaiting to incentivize new industrial development.   Hint.   Lariat Landing OKC.

http://www.furnituretoday.com/article/554086-ikeas-us-expansion-plans-shift/

The rumor is not false.  Inquiries were made.

Quote from: Rattle Trap on November 09, 2018, 02:06:43 PM
It's always interesting to me when people from other states, especially coastal ones, think there's nothing going on here. I work for a company with a fairly large "temporary" office in Tulsa, where the majority of employees are from the Northeast. Most of them are completely surprised at how nice it is here and how it's really not that different form any larger city they're used to. If anything they comment how nice everyone is, how there's very little traffic, how it's a great place to raise their kids, and how they can still have plenty of entertainment and things to do like they would back home. Several of them have volunteered to stay when a permanent office is eventually built.

It's all part of the stereotypes and national narratives about "flyover country". Unfortunately, whether it's true or not, it keeps people uninterested in the city, state, and region. That's why I think there needs to be a constant effort to market the city to both people and companies and to push for things that bring consistent national attention to change the above mindset.

At the same time this perception keeps growth in check and limits huge real estate price escalations like you see in the coastal and "hot" inland markets.  When once-sleepy inland cities like Austin and Nashville start becoming hot it's only a matter of time before we see the same thing happen in Tulsa. So enjoy it while it's still affordable and easy to get around.  :)

Construction has started on the expansion to Don E. Porter ASA Hall of Fame Stadium in the Oklahoma City Adventure District.

OKC Adventure District includes:   USA Softball Hall of Fame, Oklahoma City Zoo, Remington Park Racino, Science Museum Oklahoma, National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum and Oklahoma State Firefighters' Museum.

Here's some info on the new DT convention center:  MAPS 3 convention center to create a new skyline south of downtown OKC (2016-08-24): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtOx6hHaSZw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtOx6hHaSZw)

New convention center bid comes in $20 million below budget: https://freepressokc.com/new-convention-center-bid-comes-in-20-million-below-budget/index.html (https://freepressokc.com/new-convention-center-bid-comes-in-20-million-below-budget/index.html)

Quote"Once we get started with the Omni Hotel and the Convention Center there will be about $500 million of construction going on between those two projects, the new garage, the new park and the streetcar that comes right there at that corner," Todd said.

QuoteThe jobs come with an average $85,000 annual wage and an estimated economic impact of $116.7 million over the first seven years of the agreement. The estimated local sales and property taxes are expected to top $509,414 over the first five years and $173,558 annually from the sixth year forward.

Defense contractor set to add 130 jobs: https://www.oklahoman.com/defense-contractor-set-to-add-130-jobs-downtown-at-tinker-air-force-base/article/5614903 (https://www.oklahoman.com/defense-contractor-set-to-add-130-jobs-downtown-at-tinker-air-force-base/article/5614903)

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/large960_blur-c33f15a8eadddfa3accefa433c3603c6.jpg)
New arena proposed for Oklahoma City State Fair Park to replace the Jim Norick State Fair Arena: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=165&v=E7Jr2RKq4OY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=165&v=E7Jr2RKq4OY)

Fairgrounds of the future includes plan for new arena:  https://newsok.com/article/5516413/fairgrounds-of-the-future-includes-plan-for-new-arena (https://newsok.com/article/5516413/fairgrounds-of-the-future-includes-plan-for-new-arena)

Quote from: Laramie on November 14, 2018, 12:06:54 PM

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/large960_blur-c33f15a8eadddfa3accefa433c3603c6.jpg)
New arena proposed for Oklahoma City State Fair Park to replace the Jim Norick State Fair Arena: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=165&v=E7Jr2RKq4OY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=165&v=E7Jr2RKq4OY)

Why? What purpose will this arena serve? What problem does it solve that the current arena and Chesapeake can't?

Quote from: swake on November 14, 2018, 12:14:25 PM
Why? What purpose will this arena serve? What problem does it solve that the current arena and Chesapeake can't?

My question is WHY are will STILL talking about OKC? They have their own forum at http://www.okctalk.com

Quote from: AngieB on November 14, 2018, 12:24:05 PM
My question is WHY are will STILL talking about OKC? They have their own forum at http://www.okctalk.com

It's our "little brother" obsession...always trying to outdo bigger brother....

Quote from: AngieB on November 14, 2018, 12:24:05 PM
My question is WHY are will STILL talking about OKC? They have their own forum at http://www.okctalk.com

I'm okay with having an OKC development thread but not in the Development & New Business forum which should be about Tulsa.  Maybe call The Burbs subforum The Region and it can go in there.  Similar to how the Tulsa thread works on OKCTalk: http://www.okctalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=109 (http://www.okctalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=109)

Quote from: swake on November 14, 2018, 12:14:25 PM
Why? What purpose will this arena serve? What problem does it solve that the current arena and Chesapeake can't?

(http://fa2016.thedude.oucreate.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/img-Norrick-Arena-to-receive-million-dollar-face-lift-300x169.jpg) (http://fa2016.thedude.oucreate.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/2844-150x150.jpg) (http://www.mcdiamond.com/images/Arene%20Photo/okfair/l.jpg)

It will replace the aging State Fair Arena built in 1965.  There are some 15-20 horse events & shows are held annually; also the High School basketball playoffs (all classes except 6A), & state wrestling events are held.

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w620-7c21f0f16c6ffb6c4852222fd47be4f5.jpg) (http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUhHdnydG02-a29dxuQXST0IJETZduDW0pe6HwhoplAMYf6zU_kw)

Many new facilities to accommodate the horse show events and the new Bennett Events Center were constructed in the last few years.

Quote from: AngieB on November 14, 2018, 12:24:05 PM
My question is WHY are will STILL talking about OKC? They have their own forum at http://www.okctalk.com

We also have a Tulsa Development thread on OKCTalk.

Quote from: Laramie on November 14, 2018, 12:50:15 PM
(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w620-7c21f0f16c6ffb6c4852222fd47be4f5.jpg)

convenient parking!

Quote from: PhiAlpha on November 14, 2018, 03:11:20 PM
We also have a Tulsa Development thread on OKCTalk.

Perhaps we could create an area for OKC?
It'd serve a better purpose than our national politics forum

(https://photos.smugmug.com/USA/Oklahoma/Oklahoma-City/i-n8gjHc3/0/L/OKC-365-L.jpg)

Missed opportunity for Oklahoma City's Centennial Land Run Monument?

Oklahoma City Downtown Centennial Land Run Monument:  https://youtu.be/y6nNvaZerb4 (https://youtu.be/y6nNvaZerb4)

The Skydance Pedestrian Bride over I-40 just south of DT OKC cost $6.5 million to construct.  It is one of those structures shaped to resemble the state bird--the scissortail flycatcher.  The bridge highlighted by different color and color combinations, illuminates the skyline as drivers observe it from the 10 lane I-40 crosstown expressway.

Skydance Pedestrian Bride video presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJsGzhoQt0A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJsGzhoQt0A)

A $110 million multi-phase expansion and renovation project, designed by Atkins Benham Inc. and Gensler and built by Oscar J. Boldt Construction Company,[10] began in 2001.

In 2014, the Airport Trust selected Option 2a, which includes only the central terminal improvements. The $3.6M project will create a new central checkpoint in the center of the check-in hall. Two new greeter lobbies will be created where existing check points exist. The expansion will slightly reduce the space utilized by Sonic in the food court. The restrooms in the
area will also be relocated to the nearby Osage room. The Southwest ticket counters will be relocated further east.

In 2015 the airport trust agreed to proceed with the full construction of the East Concourse due to increased congestion in the existing West and Central concourses and passenger demand.

The new East expansion will also include an innovative view system composed of an elevated platform that will allow visitors to walk above the newly expanded East section and view down onto the concourse and the airside. Visitors would enter the elevated walkway in the terminal lobby non-secured side and there will also be a lounge.   This would give the terminal a final configuration with three concourses, East, West, and Central and would provide the airport with 30+ gates.  

Will Rogers World Airport terminal expansion gets final go-ahead:  https://newsok.com/article/5605696/airport-authority-gives-final-approval-to-plans-for-will-rogers-terminal-expansion. (https://newsok.com/article/5605696/airport-authority-gives-final-approval-to-plans-for-will-rogers-terminal-expansion.)

Blessed Stanley Rother shrine fundraising campaign surpasses initial goal:  https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/blessed-stanley-rother-shrine-fundraising-campaign-surpasses-initial-goal-86348 (https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/blessed-stanley-rother-shrine-fundraising-campaign-surpasses-initial-goal-86348)
The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Oklahoma City is a particular church of the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church in the midwestern region of the United States. Its ecclesiastical territory includes 46 counties in western Oklahoma. The Most Reverend Paul Stagg Coakley is the current archbishop. He is the metropolitan of the ecclesiastical province which includes the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City, the Diocese of Tulsa and the Diocese of Little Rock.

Quote from: Laramie on November 15, 2018, 08:56:15 PM

Father Rother Shine & 2,000-seat Roman Catholic Basilica will be built in South Oklahoma City

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960_blur-79414743cfc9282bca677ea1a04460a5.jpg)

The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Oklahoma City has chosen The Boldt Co. to serve as construction manager for the building of the Blessed Stanley Rother Shrine in Oklahoma City.

The shrine will be built on a former golf course at SE 89 between Shields Boulevard and Interstate 35. It will be the final resting place for Rother, an Okarche native who was killed in 1981 in Guatemala while serving the poor as a missionary priest. In 2016, Pope Francis declared Rother the first martyr for the Catholic Church in the United States.
In September 2017, during a Beatification Mass in downtown Oklahoma City, he became the first martyr and the first U.S.-born priest to be beatified — the last step before sainthood.

Groundbreaking on the 56-acre shrine complex is expected in early 2020 with completion by summer 2022.--Oklahoman, August 11, 2018

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uKY21eo1v0A/Uc2f3PTwOUI/AAAAAAAADJU/fQo7cUtbliA/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/STANLEY.jpg)
Blessed Father Stanley Rother

The shrine will include a 2,000-seat church, a 200-seat chapel, a museum and a pilgrim center, which will tell the story of Rother's life and martyrdom.
An event center and education building will be added in front of the main church.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/799/39571185420_8d426f2215_b.jpg)


The Boldt Co. will join design architects Franck and Lohsen, of Washington, D.C., and project architects ADG, of Oklahoma City.
The shrine will include a 2,000-seat church, a 200-seat chapel, a museum and a pilgrim center, which will tell the story of Rother's life and martyrdom.

"The committee found The Boldt Company leadership to be highly capable and good communicators with a deep understanding of the mission and purpose of the shrine," Molly Bernard, chairman of the shrine selection committee, said in a news release...

Blessed Stanley Rother shrine fundraising campaign surpasses initial goal:  https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/blessed-stanley-rother-shrine-fundraising-campaign-surpasses-initial-goal-86348 (https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/blessed-stanley-rother-shrine-fundraising-campaign-surpasses-initial-goal-86348)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Ecclesiastical_Province_of_Oklahoma_City_map.png)

The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Oklahoma City is a particular church of the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church in the midwestern region of the United States. Its ecclesiastical territory includes 46 counties in western Oklahoma. The Most Reverend Paul Stagg Coakley is the current archbishop. He is the metropolitan of the ecclesiastical province which includes the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City, the Diocese of Tulsa and the Diocese of Little Rock.

This looks incredible. Really awesome. Terrible location.

(https://www.cobases.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Tinker-AFB-Logistics-Center.jpg)

U.S. Air Force officials have selected Tinker Air Force Base to provide maintenance for the B-21 Raider once the bomber comes online in the mid 2020s, Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson announced Friday.

(https://www.chip.pl/uploads/2016/02/0000000000000e7HrwUMvpqqaXH2kA50.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds57A9Y4LxA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds57A9Y4LxA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z3P3et2-PU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z3P3et2-PU)

QuoteWilson said the Air Force hasn't determined how many jobs the new mission might create, but she expects it to be comparable to the KC-46A mission, which created about 1,350 jobs at the base. Wilson said she expected the base would need to expand its maintenance facilities to accommodate the new mission, although base officials have no plans to do so.

Oklahoman:  https://www.oklahoman.com/tinker-air-force-base-to-be-home-for-maintenance-of-new-stealth-bomber/article/5615270 (http://"https://www.oklahoman.com/tinker-air-force-base-to-be-home-for-maintenance-of-new-stealth-bomber/article/5615270")

Quote from: Laramie on November 17, 2018, 10:42:42 AM
(https://www.cobases.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Tinker-AFB-Logistics-Center.jpg)

U.S. Air Force officials have selected Tinker Air Force Base to provide maintenance for the B-21 Raider once the bomber comes online in the mid 2020s, Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson announced Friday.

(https://www.chip.pl/uploads/2016/02/0000000000000e7HrwUMvpqqaXH2kA50.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds57A9Y4LxA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds57A9Y4LxA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z3P3et2-PU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z3P3et2-PU)

Oklahoman:  https://www.oklahoman.com/tinker-air-force-base-to-be-home-for-maintenance-of-new-stealth-bomber/article/5615270 (http://"https://www.oklahoman.com/tinker-air-force-base-to-be-home-for-maintenance-of-new-stealth-bomber/article/5615270")

(https://media.makeameme.org/created/we-need-to-5bf05e.jpg)

B 21 RAIDER: WHY RUSSIA & CHINA SHOULD FEAR IT?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9OGaLxU7Ds&t=324s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9OGaLxU7Ds&t=324s)

Got to keep our opposition in check.  Hope we never have to use these planes to bomb any country; however if it keeps us safe--it accomplishes it purpose.

EMBARK officials prepare for beginning of streetcar system in downtown OKC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrmMHb88cAA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrmMHb88cAA)

Quote"With activities like paddling along the Oklahoma River to hiking in the Stinchcomb Wildlife Refuge, Oklahoma City is an exciting location for the co-op," Kristen Engels, REI retail director for the Southwest district, said in a statement. "We are excited to join this community and provide our 46,500 members in the state with quality gear and outdoor experiences."

REI Co-op to open first store in state in Oklahoma City: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/rei-co-op-to-open-first-store-in-state-in-oklahoma-city/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/business/rei-co-op-to-open-first-store-in-state-in-oklahoma-city/)

Eight-story condo project planned for Midtown:  http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=550-8-story-condo-project-planned-for-Midtown (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=550-8-story-condo-project-planned-for-Midtown)

(clockwise from top left) Uptown 23rd has become a bustling business district. // Steve Mason, Meg Salyer, and Mickey Clagg. // The Heart of Midtown // The Plaza District


A District Discussion   
The Pieces of Placemaking
By George Lang
Photos by Shannon Cornman:  https://www.405magazine.com/October-2016/A-District-Discussion/ (https://www.405magazine.com/October-2016/A-District-Discussion/)

Quote from: Laramie on November 17, 2018, 12:41:09 PM
B 21 RAIDER: WHY RUSSIA & CHINA SHOULD FEAR IT?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9OGaLxU7Ds&t=324s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9OGaLxU7Ds&t=324s)

Got to keep our opposition in check.  Hope we never have to use these planes to bomb any country; however if it keeps us safe--it accomplishes it purpose.

Corporate Welfare.  B-21... B-2 rev 0.1.

Does 2 things - puts on jamming for low frequency radar - can you spell retrofit??   Like we have done for decades...   This goes right back to WWII technology...what was that movie with Kirk Douglas where his aircraft carrier went back to Dec 7,1942?  And they had trouble flying slow enough to splash the Zeroes...?

But then I am biased, since I did some B-1 work in the past.   Nothing quite like a "Cessna 180" coming at you at 2,000+ mph to ruin your day!


Second, they are specifically designing in drone capability - autonomous flight mode.  War as video game.  

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on November 18, 2018, 05:54:36 PM

Corporate Welfare.  B-21... B-2 rev 0.1.

Does 2 things - puts on jamming for low frequency radar - can you spell retrofit??   Like we have done for decades...   This goes right back to WWII technology...what was that movie with Kirk Douglas where his aircraft carrier went back to Dec 7,1942?  And they had trouble flying slow enough to splash the Zeroes...?

But then I am biased, since I did some B-1 work in the past.   Nothing quite like a "Cessna 180" coming at you at 2,000+ mph to ruin your day!


Second, they are specifically designing in drone capability - autonomous flight mode.  War as video game.  

The Final Countdown and it was December 6, 1941 that they traveled back to.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080736/?ref_=nv_sr_1 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080736/?ref_=nv_sr_1)

Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 18, 2018, 06:24:01 PM
The Final Countdown and it was December 6, 1941 that they traveled back to.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080736/?ref_=nv_sr_1 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080736/?ref_=nv_sr_1)

Yeah...day before Pearl.  Pretty good movie...

Really liked that old yacht the Senator was tooling around on!

Quote from: Laramie on November 18, 2018, 04:51:04 PM

Midtown, Oklahoma City

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/e102.jpg)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/e100.jpg)

Eight-story condo project planned for Midtown:  http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=550-8-story-condo-project-planned-for-Midtown (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=550-8-story-condo-project-planned-for-Midtown)

(https://www.405magazine.com/Culture-04-OKC-New-District.jpg)

(clockwise from top left) Uptown 23rd has become a bustling business district. // Steve Mason, Meg Salyer, and Mickey Clagg. // The Heart of Midtown // The Plaza District


A District Discussion   
The Pieces of Placemaking
By George Lang
Photos by Shannon Cornman:  https://www.405magazine.com/October-2016/A-District-Discussion/ (https://www.405magazine.com/October-2016/A-District-Discussion/)

Are there many people up in arms about how un-pedestrian/transit friendly that condo complex is in OKC?

IMO, there will always be some dislike to any development you build; if it's more bike lanes--they interfere with traffic, if it's sidewalks people don't use the ones we have.  OKC has moved more toward walk-ability and pedestrian friendly with most developments especially inside the core (Downtown, Bricktown & Midtown) where OKC has had an enormous upswing in building apartments, condominiums & residential housing:

West Village Apartments: https://www.apartments.com/west-village-oklahoma-city-ok/kpjdgj9/ (https://www.apartments.com/west-village-oklahoma-city-ok/kpjdgj9/)
The Edge at Midtown: https://www.apartments.com/the-edge-at-midtown-oklahoma-city-ok/nqt3d3n/ (https://www.apartments.com/the-edge-at-midtown-oklahoma-city-ok/nqt3d3n/)
The Hill in Bricktown: https://www.highrises.com/oklahoma-city/the-hill-at-bricktown/ (https://www.highrises.com/oklahoma-city/the-hill-at-bricktown/)
The Lift:  https://www.apartments.com/lift-oklahoma-city-ok/qbds4gz/ (https://www.apartments.com/lift-oklahoma-city-ok/qbds4gz/)
The Metropolitan: https://metropolitanok.prospectportal.com/ (https://metropolitanok.prospectportal.com/)
The Steelyard: https://tour.steelyardokc.net/oklahoma-city-apartments-for-rent?gclid=Cj0KCQiA28nfBRCDARIsANc5BFC3H22OeKoSSbLHkZCRG488VAPFL54Rg-A6PQuva9qchBUVIK5kPVkaAq9aEALw_wcB (https://tour.steelyardokc.net/oklahoma-city-apartments-for-rent?gclid=Cj0KCQiA28nfBRCDARIsANc5BFC3H22OeKoSSbLHkZCRG488VAPFL54Rg-A6PQuva9qchBUVIK5kPVkaAq9aEALw_wcB)

The above is the bulk of the core's residential housing boom.  Now, it's very difficult to gauge how residents will take on the core flavor living until the street & infrastructure construction is complete.  Many of these dwellings are 80-90% leased or purchased before they're built.  

We do see the positive side of developments--it has clean up areas that were an eyesore and potential blight on the city.  The challenge will be how these developments are maintained in the next 5-15 years from now.   My brother retired; he loves the downtown living.  Midtown, St. Anthony Hospital (Saints) and the OU Health Science Centers areas are developing more connectivity with a high profile police presence.  

Big plans to attract, keep & maintain young professionals and retirees.

.

Quote from: Laramie on November 17, 2018, 12:41:09 PM
B 21 RAIDER: WHY RUSSIA & CHINA SHOULD FEAR IT?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9OGaLxU7Ds&t=324s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9OGaLxU7Ds&t=324s)

Got to keep our opposition in check.  Hope we never have to use these planes to bomb any country; however if it keeps us safe--it accomplishes it purpose.

More importantly it spends hundreds of billions we don't have so that we can continue to add to that $22 trillion in debt and ensure our grandchildrens' children will be enslaved to insurmountable debt via endless war. Genius way to make the Republican party the party of big spending and massive increases behind the guise of "national security" as we foot the defense bill for the rest of the First World.

You're delusional if you think we need these B21s to be "safe"...

Some state was going to get those B-21s.

Whether or not they raised the debt by increases in the military defense budget of which this money Tinker received could have gone to any AFB in the country was decided by a Republican controlled Congress along with a President who signed off on it.   I agree with you 100%; the fact is it was done--just glad Oklahoma was allotted some of these funds.

You do realize that much of the money the Federal Government budgets goes to stimulate the economy.  Oklahoma for the longest was a contribution state; we are now a recipient state in highway and military defense funds; meaning we are getting what we paid in and then some back.  The impact Oklahoma military bases have on the state's economy is tangible as well as intangible.

We're told of what a great economy we live in today; also the economy is fragile.  Debts continue to rise; therefore how sustainable is the economy or will it fizzle out into a recession.

You mentioned the debts that will be passed on to our grandchildren's childrens isn't anything to be ignored.  Some future administration will be burdened with getting controls on spending--the cuts within the next 20 years will come--our economy can't continue to consume this amount of debt and be sustainable without future consequences.  

Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on November 19, 2018, 09:21:30 AM
More importantly it spends hundreds of billions we don't have so that we can continue to add to that $22 trillion in debt and ensure our grandchildrens' children will be enslaved to insurmountable debt via endless war. Genius way to make the Republican party the party of big spending and massive increases behind the guise of "national security" as we foot the defense bill for the rest of the First World.

You're delusional if you think we need these B21s to be "safe"...

You're delusional if you don't think we need to continue upgrading our stealth bomber fleet to keep our advantage over the rest of the world.

Quote from: PhiAlpha on November 19, 2018, 12:58:17 PM
You're delusional if you don't think we need to continue upgrading our stealth bomber fleet to keep our advantage over the rest of the world.

We are outspending the next 8 or 9 top military spenders in the world combined! You're delusional if you think we need that much spending for security. The existential threat of "bad guys" around the world won't matter if those countries own our debt and hold major bargaining power over us (hint: many of them do, e.g. China). If the B21 is necessary, they should cut billions off of something else to make up for it. Instead congress just raises spending by billions.

With the economy being as good as it has been the last few years, the government should have had surpluses that we use to pay off some of that debt. It's the opposite. We are spending more than ever and assuring we will never get out of it.

Quote from: Laramie on November 19, 2018, 11:40:04 AM

You do realize that much of the money the Federal Government budgets goes to stimulate the economy.  Oklahoma for the longest was a contribution state; we are now a recipient state in highway and military defense funds; meaning we are getting what we paid in and then some back.  The impact Oklahoma military bases have on the state's economy is tangible as well as intangible.

Good for Oklahoma to be a beneficiary of this and you're right they'll build it somewhere so better here than other places, but bad for the US to borrow money we don't have to pay for something we don't need.

That has always been a big argument of big-government Republicans, that the federal government needs to overspend to stimulate the economy...  That is true during a down economy, but if the last few years weren't a good economy that should be paying back debt, then we will never have a good economy. Yes government spending is an important part of the overall economy, but there are limits to how large it can affordably be and you cannot borrow forever without consequences. Debt and war should be temporary, not founding ideologies like with neo-cons and apparently neo-libs also (https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/how-perpetual-war-became-us-ideology/238600/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/how-perpetual-war-became-us-ideology/238600/) https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy)).

Social Security is paying out more than it receives already and is on track to runout by 2034. Then the federal government will have to pay those pensions in cash or maybe open up volunteer stations to start turning baby boomers into Soylent. The politicians should volunteer first for marching us into this smile show.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/report-shows-social-security-will-pay-more-than-it-collects-this-year-060718.html (https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/report-shows-social-security-will-pay-more-than-it-collects-this-year-060718.html)

So congrats to Tinker for being the beneficiary of this, but hard for me to get excited about more federal government expansion.

I don't think big-government Republicans or most Democrats understand how truly dire the situation is. We have a $1 trillion annual deficit and within a decade, more than $900 billion in interest payments will be due annually, easily outpacing spending on most all other programs.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/25/business/economy/us-government-debt-interest.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/25/business/economy/us-government-debt-interest.html)

So we will be borrowing a trillion a year just to pay interest, stuck in a perpetual debt loop. Trump promised to fix the debt but he's made it much worse. Either we are intentionally being marched to an alarming financial crisis or politicians have no idea how economics work (current and previous admins).

You've preached to the choir & a former Alter Boy.  I'll genuflect to those comments anytime & anyplace.

Those of us who have paid into Social Security expect it to be solvent and available when we apply.  It's not like social security is some kind of welfare program.  Congress continues to pass tax breaks that benefit those making annual salaries of $200,000 or more annually and for the wealthiest of Americans and corporate America; then want to trim the budget on the backs of hardest working individuals & family.

Well anyway, gotta go so we may get back-on-topic.

Quote from: Laramie on November 19, 2018, 05:23:23 PM
Well anyway, gotta go so we may get back-on-topic.

IKEA rumor?

Quote from: BKDotCom on November 19, 2018, 07:52:33 PM
IKEA rumor?

Predict IKEA will revisit & negotiate with the OKC market.   The nearest stores are Dallas, Kansas City & Memphis more than 200-300-400 miles away respectively.  IKEA have penetrated all markets with 2 million+ MSA population or more.  They are now looking at markets below 1.5 million; Memphis has a store, their MSA is slightly smaller than OKC's.  OKC MSA has a faster growth rate than Memphis by +8.67.  

Just a matter of time...

       2017 Population estimates:
                                                               2017             2010
       41    Oklahoma City, OK MSA       1,383,737    1,252,987    +10.44%    
       42    Memphis, TN-MS-AR MSA    1,348,260    1,324,829    +1.77%    

Governor: Aerospace firm to create 350 jobs in Oklahoma: https://www.koco.com/article/aerospace-company-to-bring-aircraft-manufacturing-at-least-352-jobs-to-oklahoma/22725642 (https://www.koco.com/article/aerospace-company-to-bring-aircraft-manufacturing-at-least-352-jobs-to-oklahoma/22725642)

VSA working to create high-tech jobs and partnerships with area universities.  Valkyrie Systems Aerospace (VSA), a cutting-edge developer of manned/unmanned aerial platforms, is proud to announce an exciting partnership with the State of Oklahoma.

QuoteAn aerospace manufacturer that produces unmanned aircraft plans to locate its operations center in Oklahoma City and create more than 350 jobs over the next five years...

"Our talented workforce and low cost of doing business along with a good quality of life makes Oklahoma very attractive for growing companies like Valkyrie," Fallin said.

The Oklahoma Department of Commerce worked with Valkyrie for nine months to secure the project. Commerce officials said the company has been awarded a 21st Century Quality Jobs Program incentive contract, which is issued to qualifying businesses with a highly skilled, high-paid, knowledge-based workforce.

OKC continues to attract jobs to its metropolitan area. 

Quote from: Laramie on November 20, 2018, 01:09:02 AM
(https://www.suasnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Valkyrie-Guardian.jpg)

All bow before skynet

From the Oklahoma Gazette (November 18, 2018):

Banking on education
Oklahoma City Public Schools will renovate Central National Bank building for its new administration headquarters.
BY MIGUEL RIOS


(https://media2.fdncms.com/okgazette/imager/u/blog2x/5061359/615classen111718a.jpg)

Oklahoma City Public Schools will move their administration office to a building better-suited for its needs and services.

The school district is going forward with plans to renovate the old Central National Bank building on 615 N. Classen Ave. into its new headquarters.

"The past nine to 12 months, we've been working on plans to make sure it can house the 180 employees we need to move in there and still accommodate our needs as far as a board meeting space," said Scott Randall, OKCPS chief operations officer.

The project's bid will open late November or early December. It will then present it to the Board of Education Dec. 10 and make a recommendation on who should receive the construction contract, Randall said.

"From there, we're looking at about a 12-month construction period, so our goal is to be in the building in the winter of 2019," he said. "Ideally by December 2019, but maybe more like January 2020."

The three-story office will be called The Clara Luper Center for Educational Services, named after the civic leader who conducted sit-in protests that helped end segregation laws and policies in Oklahoma.

It will mark the first time the school district will have a building designed as an office space for its administrative services. Its previous building was a former school that was modified but never went through a full-scale renovation.

"For us to actually go into a building designed as an office building and is built for those purposes will make us more efficient and create a more collaborative environment for our team to work together," Randall said. "We're really excited for that."

The district also plans to build an addition to the north of the office to better serve the city.

"The new building will have a large auditorium that will serve our board for board meetings and will have a couple of conference rooms in it," Randall said. "We hope to be able to use that for not just board meetings but for professional development trainings in the district or other events where we need to bring together a large group."

The former bank's drive-thru structure still stands south of the building, across NW Fifth Street. It has gained some architectural acclaim for its mid-century design and unique wavy roof. The district hopes to avoid demolition, so Randall said it's looking for interested parties to acquire the structure or move the roof.

"We would like to see it preserved, but we also realize we can't have that as an ongoing maintenance issue and we do need the area for parking," he said. "We'll have to make a decision on that in the next four to six months. We'll need to bring that to some sort of conclusion, but a final decision has not been made about that."

The school district is also working with Oklahoma City Redevelopment Authority to find new use for their old office on 900 N. Klein Ave. The organization has conducted community meetings on the future of the building.

"They're working to put together packages so firms can begin to bid on that particular building, so we hope in the very near future the sale of the building will be completed and it begins to be used in a way that becomes a vital part of that community," he said.

The 96-year-old building was a former middle school. It served as the district's offices since 1955.

The Dec. 10 board meeting will be at 5:30 p.m. in the auditorium of Northeast Academy, 3100 N. Kelley Ave.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/615nclassen111818.jpg)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/615classen111418a.jpg)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/615classen111418c.jpg)

Quote from: BKDotCom on November 19, 2018, 07:52:33 PM
IKEA rumor?

QuoteAs Ikea eliminates a huge number of jobs, it also plans on opening up even more positions than it eliminates. The reorganization could lead to the creation of 11,500 new jobs as it expands into 30 new smaller-format stores in cities around the world, Ikea said. Ingka currently owns 367 Ikea stores and employs 160,000 people of Ikea's 208,000 global workforce.

Ikea's major reorganization: Smaller stores and 7,500 job cuts:  https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/business/ikea-layoffs/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/business/ikea-layoffs/index.html)

Quote from: Laramie on November 21, 2018, 02:03:06 PM
Ikea's major reorganization: Smaller stores and 7,500 job cuts:  https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/business/ikea-layoffs/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/business/ikea-layoffs/index.html)

Quote
The cuts will hit administrative and support jobs. Ikea said that fewer than 75 jobs will be eliminated in the United States.

Tuesday, November 27, 2018 | by The Oklahoman Editorial Board

AN announcement that Tinker Air Force Base will maintain the B-21 Raider once the bomber comes on line is good news for the base and another validation of central Oklahoma's longtime support of the base.

Tinker celebrated its 75th anniversary last year, a true milestone considering there was no guarantee it would get to 50 or 60. During the early 1990s, Tinker faced the threat of closure, or at least significant downsizing, as result of the Base Realignment and Closure Commission process, which weighed the viability of all U.S. bases.

The state's congressional delegation lobbied hard for Tinker, and so did the community. A nonprofit group led by a former Tinker commander even asked metro-area cities to assist financially in the preservation effort, based on how many of their residents worked at Tinker. In Midwest City, council members set up a fund that allowed residents to "overpay their water bill and designate the extra mount be given to the task force," a September 1994 story in The Daily Oklahoman noted.

Those efforts succeeded, allowing Tinker to prosper. Today, roughly 31,000 workers and their families are tied to Tinker, which has a $1.6 billion payroll. Lt. Gen. Lee Levy, former commander of the Air Force Sustainment Center at Tinker, would frequently note that the center is a $16 billion-a-year operation that would rank No. 116 if it were a Fortune 500 company.

Just two years ago, officials broke ground on a 158-acre KC-46 Sustainment Campus, on the site of what was once the BNSF Railway yard. That purchase, the result of an effort involving the Air Force, the city of Oklahoma City and Oklahoma County, will generate about 1,300 good-paying jobs maintaining the KC-46A Pegasus once that tanker begins flying.

Tinker is an important site with a strong record, something Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson noted earlier this month in naming the base to maintain the B-21 Raider.

"We made that decision because Tinker Air Force Base has the people and the experience and has shown its ability to provide sustainment to some of our most important aircraft," Wilson said.

The B-21, a long-range stealth bomber, is expected to be delivered midway through the next decade, and is meant to replace the B-1 Lancer and B-2 Spirit bombers. Wilson says she expects this project to translate into roughly the same number of jobs as the KC-46A mission.

Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Tulsa, perhaps the Senate's most hawkish member and a staunch defender of all of Oklahoma's military installation, says adding the B-21 to Tinker's maintenance roster "puts Oklahoma at the forefront of the next generation of military aircraft and solidifies Tinker's rightful place as the nation's premier air logistics facility."

Where the military is concerned, nothing is guaranteed. But Tinker is on solid footing, and news like that delivered by Wilson only underscores that.

Leaving a comment - Thank you for joining our conversation on Oklahoman.com. We allow comments on our stories using the Facebook commenting platform. It is our intention to facilitate a conversation around news and information on Oklahoman.com. However, we reserve the right to evaluate each article and use discretion regarding commenting. For more details, see the Oklahoman.com commenting policy.

If you prefer your thoughts to appear in The Oklahoman's Opinion section, we encourage you to submit a letter to the editor.

Man, they get all the nice tax revenues.

Not the biggest fan of the architecture but the fact they were able to build all of the West Village as a single development is impressive, and will definitely enhance that area.  I stayed at the Museum21c Hotel when I was down there for a wedding and really liked it along with the Jones Assembly restaurant/bar.  That whole area was a desolate wasteland a few years ago.  I hope our Santa Fe Square project is similar but with nicer-looking residential buildings.

Oklahoma City's transformation:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVc4pgBGO28 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVc4pgBGO28)

Quote from: Laramie on November 29, 2018, 09:31:10 PM

Winstar World Casino & Resort (World's Largest Casino):

117 miles south of Oklahoma City; 72 miles north of Dallas
(https://www.chickasaw.net/CMSPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=3f90ccee-f712-4645-83a2-c5599eb22893)

(https://www.winstarworldcasino.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/WS_Hotel_Page-Header_1500x350_2016.jpg)
1395 rooms on main casino complex (395 in Resort Tower, 500 in Pool Tower North, 500 in Pool Tower South)

(https://www.strombergarchitectural.com/images/stories/projects/winstar/parliament.jpg) (https://cdnssl-xxucvnztnfiuzqb5lc0.netdna-ssl.com/img/casinos/okWinstarCasinoPhoto.jpg)  (http://podtyazhki.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/winstar-convention-center-luxury-the-best-convention-center-in-north-texas-is-in-oklahoma-d-magazine-of-winstar-convention-center.jpg)

Winstar World Casino:  https://www.winstarworldcasino.com/winstar-world-casino-hotel/ (https://www.winstarworldcasino.com/winstar-world-casino-hotel/)

Winstar World Casino (Youtube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VArJ02VozSo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VArJ02VozSo)

Five biggest casinos in the United States (Youtube):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAFYKyl_HWI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAFYKyl_HWI)

I drove past there today, Winstar is better described as attached to Gainesville, TX than to OK which is, I think you said, 117 some odd miles from OKC.  That would be like Tulsa trying to claim the Choctaw casino in Durant.  Or the Indigo Sky in Wyandotte.  Or Buffalo Run in Miami.  Exactly how many casinos are there located in OKC?  Something else, I was wondering which tribe is associated with Winstar?  One never hears of any tribal association when it comes to Winstar.  Why is that? 

Quote from: joiei on December 01, 2018, 03:54:17 PM
  I drove past there today, Winstar is better described as attached to Gainesville, TX than to OK which is, I think you said, 117 some odd miles from OKC.  That would be like Tulsa trying to claim the Choctaw casino in Durant.  Or the Indigo Sky in Wyandotte.  Or Buffalo Run in Miami.  Exactly how many casinos are there located in OKC?  Something else, I was wondering which tribe is associated with Winstar?  One never hears of any tribal association when it comes to Winstar.  Why is that? 

Chickasaw Nation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinStar_World_Casino (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinStar_World_Casino)

Thanks. 

Oklahoma City Area Casinos:


Lucky Star Casino: LL Cool J - Hey Lover - Lucky Star Casino - El Reno, OK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qMPq1J5GLc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qMPq1J5GLc)

Grand Casino & Resort (Shawnee): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdIIgPoWcDw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdIIgPoWcDw)

Newcastle Casino: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WJ4AOqqAUo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WJ4AOqqAUo)

Remington Park - Oklahoma City's Adventure District - The Perfect Getaway:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy7xZCYP-qo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy7xZCYP-qo)

Riverwind Casino:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ7ta4LuOIc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ7ta4LuOIc)


Thunderbird Casinos in Norman & Shawnee - Come for Fun, Play to Win!:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCG1d1b-ngc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCG1d1b-ngc)

Oklahoma City area is saturated with casinos...

Forbes:  Oklahoma City's MAPS Is A Model Public Works Program:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbeyer/2016/12/16/oklahoma-citys-maps-is-a-model-public-works-program/#31d0a99b3ab8 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbeyer/2016/12/16/oklahoma-citys-maps-is-a-model-public-works-program/#31d0a99b3ab8)

MAPS III Projects:  https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/about-maps-3 (https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/about-maps-3)

Quick Facts

   Projects: Convention Center | Downtown Public Park | Modern Streetcar and Transit | Oklahoma State Fairgrounds Improvements | Senior Health & Wellness Centers | Oklahoma       River Improvements | Trails | Sidewalks

   Voter approved: Dec. 8, 2009
   Tax duration: April 2010 to December 2017
   Construction duration: 2012 to 2021 (scheduled)
   Total budget: $777 million

Quote from: joiei on December 01, 2018, 03:54:17 PM
  I drove past there today, Winstar is better described as attached to Gainesville, TX than to OK which is, I think you said, 117 some odd miles from OKC.  That would be like Tulsa trying to claim the Choctaw casino in Durant.  Or the Indigo Sky in Wyandotte.  Or Buffalo Run in Miami.  Exactly how many casinos are there located in OKC?  Something else, I was wondering which tribe is associated with Winstar?  One never hears of any tribal association when it comes to Winstar.  Why is that? 

Good point; glad you brought this to our attention.

Just want to clarify on the Winstar World Casino  thread; although it's not OKC stuff--it's inside Oklahoma; Dallas does claim that area as apart of the Combined Statistical Area (CMA)  7,846,293 which includes Durant, OK.  I have relatives in Dallas & Houston--they make the drive to Winstar. 

The Chickasaw tribe did capitalize on its location of its tribal land's proximity to the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex.

Also want to mention that the Chickasaw Tribe will be given 100 acres in the vicinity of Oklahoma City American Indian Cultural Center as apart of its agreement to complete its construction.   

AICCM:  https://www.chickasaw.tv/videos/the-vital-completion-of-the-american-indian-cultural-center-and-museum (https://www.chickasaw.tv/videos/the-vital-completion-of-the-american-indian-cultural-center-and-museum)



Tulsa World reports:  Indian Cultural Center construction to resume in Oklahoma City:  https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/indian-cultural-center-construction-to-resume-in-oklahoma-city/article_b170e07d-2b66-59df-afc9-7f234d9499ef.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/indian-cultural-center-construction-to-resume-in-oklahoma-city/article_b170e07d-2b66-59df-afc9-7f234d9499ef.html)

Quote from: Laramie on December 02, 2018, 03:55:04 PM
Good point; glad you brought this to our attention.

Just want to clarify on the Winstar World Casino  thread; although it's not OKC stuff--it's inside Oklahoma; Dallas does claim that area as apart of the Combined Statistical Area (CMA)  7,846,293 which includes Durant, OK.  I have relatives in Dallas & Houston--they make the drive to Winstar. 

The Chickasaw tribe did capitalize on its location of its tribal land's proximity to the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex.

Per Google, Oklahoma City to Winstar World Casino - 126 miles

Other Casinos closer to Oklahoma City than Winstar:

River Spirit/Margaritaville Casino - 107 miles
Hard Rock Tulsa - 118 miles
Osage Casino Tulsa - 110 miles

And basically all the other Tulsa area casinos.

Quote
Construction on the new OKC convention center & Omni conference hotel via

So that's what that is. I was driving back from Norman this morning and saw 3 tower cranes over there and couldn't figure out what that would be.

Quote from: swake on December 02, 2018, 04:58:48 PM
Per Google, Oklahoma City to Winstar World Casino - 126 miles

Other Casinos closer to Oklahoma City than Winstar:

River Spirit/Margaritaville Casino - 107 miles
Hard Rock Tulsa - 118 miles
Osage Casino Tulsa - 110 miles

And basically all the other Tulsa area casinos.

Interesting Swake that you mentioned the casinos in the Tulsa area; a friend of mind and his wife checked into the Hard Rock Hotel And Casino Tulsa thinking her meeting was there; instead it was at the River Spirit Casino Resort.  He and his wife experienced River Spirit Casino Resort & Hard Rock Hotel & Casino.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention112418a.jpg)

Quote from: Rattle Trap on December 02, 2018, 05:00:44 PM
So that's what that is. I was driving back from Norman this morning and saw 3 tower cranes over there and couldn't figure out what that would be.

Took my bike ride from that area this morning to the Lake Overholser bike trail (decided to return and climb back into bed); that area saturated with red clay and construction pains reminded me of a war zone.

(https://www.fezzari.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/peggydavis66-Oklahoma-City.jpg)

  The Best Bike Trails: The Oklahoma River Trail: https://www.fezzari.com/blog/2012/10/23/the-oklahoma-river-trail/ (https://www.fezzari.com/blog/2012/10/23/the-oklahoma-river-trail/)

Quote from: Laramie on December 02, 2018, 05:57:45 PM
(https://www.fezzari.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/peggydavis66-Oklahoma-City.jpg)

 The Best Bike Trails: The Oklahoma River Trail: https://www.fezzari.com/blog/2012/10/23/the-oklahoma-river-trail/ (https://www.fezzari.com/blog/2012/10/23/the-oklahoma-river-trail/)

I've ridden that trail, and several of the others in OKC.   OKC has a good, and growing, bike trail system with access from the OK river area all the way out to Overholser and (with a just a little street riding) all the way up to Hefner.   I think there are about 90 miles of dedicated bike trails/paths in the OKC area.  Good stuff.

Tulsa also has a very nice, and also growing, set of bike trails running from Bixby in the South, all along the river and the Creek Turnpike, out to Sand Springs and on up all the way to Skiatook.  Not sure on exact miles, but I know it is somewhere a little over 100 miles of dedicated bike lanes/trails.  Good Stuff.

The two major metro areas have active and growing biking communities, and it shows in the support by both cities.  This is one area where OK is above-average in the US, and as an avid cyclist myself, one thing I can brag about to others.

I've met people from outside the state who mentioned Tulsa Tough and the bike community when I mentioned I was from Tulsa. 

Quote from: swake on December 02, 2018, 04:58:48 PM
Per Google, Oklahoma City to Winstar World Casino - 126 miles

Other Casinos closer to Oklahoma City than Winstar:

River Spirit/Margaritaville Casino - 107 miles
Hard Rock Tulsa - 118 miles
Osage Casino Tulsa - 110 miles

And basically all the other Tulsa area casinos.

You forgot the ones that are actually in the OKC metro with distances from downtown:

Remington Park - OKC (7.8 miles), it's a racino so horse betting and slots only, no table games (the casino rules make no sense)
Riverwind - Norman (21.9 miles)
Newcastle - Newcastle (19 miles)
Grand Casino -  Shawnee (28.5 miles)
Lucky Star - Concho (35 miles)
Firelake - Shawnee (38 miles)

Quote from: SXSW on December 03, 2018, 11:00:45 AM
I've met people from outside the state who mentioned Tulsa Tough and the bike community when I mentioned I was from Tulsa. 

I hadn't heard of Tulsa Tough until a few years ago and have been at Cry Baby Hill every year since. It's a great event!

Quote from: PhiAlpha on December 03, 2018, 11:08:41 AM
I hadn't heard of Tulsa Tough until a few years ago and have been at Cry Baby Hill every year since. It's a great event!

The Tough is an awesome event.  It's on the Pro Road Tour, and by-far the biggest (in terms of prestige) in this part of the US.   

Hey Laramie,  what is your point on this last post?  Just rubbing it in that OU is near OKC and Tulsa doesn't have a major public university?   It's an active topic in other threads, I just don't know why you are posting these pics here?

Quote from: rebound on December 03, 2018, 02:38:31 PM
Hey Laramie,  what is your point on this last post?  Just rubbing it in that OU is near OKC and Tulsa doesn't have a major public university?   It's an active topic in other threads, I just don't know why you are posting these pics here?

He is just highlighting the inequities of left side vs right side of the state.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/03/ikea-moves-into-manhattan-with-its-first-city-center-store-in-2019.html

Interesting read.

From all Laramie's postings one would think he is in charge of the Chamber of Commerce or at least the Visitor's and Convention Bureau for that place at the other end of the turnpike. 

  Streetcar celebration:  https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/lifestyle/streetcar-celebration/?utm_source=ChamberT&utm_medium=Social&utm_term=IntVeloCity&utm_content=streetcar-12-4-18 (https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/lifestyle/streetcar-celebration/?utm_source=ChamberT&utm_medium=Social&utm_term=IntVeloCity&utm_content=streetcar-12-4-18)


Experienced another opportunity on Monday, December 2 to follow one of the Bermuda Green streetcars from Hudson Avenue north to Sheridan east toward Bricktown.

QuoteMark Dec. 14 on your calendars because it will be a historic day for our city as the Oklahoma City Streetcar officially opens for business. The celebration will start at 10 a.m. in the heart of downtown Oklahoma City at the Business District Platform in the plaza of Leadership Square...  ...The grand opening weekend will be full of live entertainment, special promotions and family activities. Also don't forget that the streetcar will be free through January 5!

There are planned developments being submitted to the city along the streetcar route;  many cities have seen recent developments planned along their streetcar routes.  Global Payments cited the streetcar route on Broadway Avenue and the YMCA parking garage as a reason they relocated some of their operations from Atlanta to OKC.

   Historic Oklahoma City site set for facelift: https://kfor.com/2018/12/04/historic-oklahoma-city-site-set-for-facelift/ (https://kfor.com/2018/12/04/historic-oklahoma-city-site-set-for-facelift/)

Quote from: joiei on December 03, 2018, 10:40:36 PM
From all Laramie's postings one would think he is in charge of the Chamber of Commerce or at least the Visitor's and Convention Bureau for that place at the other end of the turnpike. 

Ya gotta admit...showing some nice stuff, though!

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on December 04, 2018, 06:17:22 PM

Ya gotta admit...showing some nice stuff, though!

Very true. 

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/icons/maps3.png)

Quote"This is our time to write the next chapter in Oklahoma City's story," Holt said in a MAPS video posted on the city's website. "It is time to talk about MAPS 4 and dream big again."

Since October, Holt said he has received a little over 1,000 ideas from community members, and while an advisory board exists to review MAPS 3 projects, no such board has been created to assess ideas for MAPS 4 so far.  

Oklahoma Gazette - Drawing MAPS:   https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/drawing-maps/Content?oid=5220549 (https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/drawing-maps/Content?oid=5220549)

QuoteThe city's Better Streets, Safer City initiative launched in 2017 and the temporary sales tax incorporated through the project will expire in Spring 2020, Holt said.

"We'll dedicate 2019 to planning and 2020 to executing our plans," Holt said. "2020 is right around the corner."  

Professional Football Spring Leagues:

Freedom Football League - FFL -- has been created by former NFL players, including Ricky Williams, Terrell Owens and Simeon Rice, with the intention of "reimagining, rethinking, reinventing and reforming" the game...

FFL - Freedom Football League:  http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25470052/former-nfl-players-plan-launch-freedom-football-league (http://"http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25470052/former-nfl-players-plan-launch-freedom-football-league")

QuoteThe league did not say when it would begin play, though it did say the first 10 teams would be the San Diego Warriors, Oklahoma City Power, Portland Progress, Texas Revolution, Ohio Players, Florida Strong, Birmingham Kings, St. Louis Independence, Connecticut Underground and Oakland Panthers

Also there's the XFL, AAF

FFL:  http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25470052/former-nfl-players-plan-launch-freedom-football-league (http://"http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25470052/former-nfl-players-plan-launch-freedom-football-league")

Oklahoma City Bus Rapid Transit wins federal grant:

QuoteThe $14.3 million BUILD grant from the U.S. Department of Transportation was announced Thursday — along with grants to Tulsa and the Port of Muskogee — by Sen. Jim Inhofe.

The bus rapid transit line will go up N Classen Boulevard to the Northwest Expressway, then out the Northwest Expressway past Penn Square to Meridian Avenue.--Oklahoman, William Crum, 12/08/2018

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960_blur-c90a75663919512b489a29056ec603f0.jpg)
Oklahoma City this week was awarded a federal grant to develop a bus rapid transit line between downtown and the northwest side. [The Oklahoman archives

QuoteTransit Director Jason Ferbrache said the federal grant is to be matched with $10.8 million in bond funds and $2.2 million in sales tax proceeds, both approved by voters last year.

General obligation bond package:  The 10-year, $967 million bond package invests in streets, police and fire facilities, parks and other basic needs. It succeeds the 2007 bond program, which is almost complete.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention112418a.jpg)

Seeing those cranes stationed all around the construction of the convention center, Midtown Broadway, ASA Hall of Fame Stadium's upper deck expansion, OU Medical Center's new tower, and the future projects proposed near the Capital  reminds me of vultures eating away at the decay and dying.

It's also a grim reminder of what has happened to our historic venues.

Life in OKC is very difficult; especially if you have to navigate from one area of town to the other.  They have now started on some of the $1 billion streets & infrastructure bond projects passed in 2017:  https://www.okc.gov/Home/Components/News/News/2423/18 (https://www.okc.gov/Home/Components/News/News/2423/18)  


It's as though we are revisiting the toil and turmoil OKC experienced downtown with Devon Tower & Project 180 construction later followed by the streetcar once all of that was completed.

QuoteLife in OKC is very difficult; especially if you have to navigate from one area of town to the other.  They have now started on some of the $1 billion streets & infrastructure bond projects passed in 2017:  https://www.okc.gov/Home/Components/News/News/2423/18 


It's as though we are revisiting the toil and turmoil OKC experienced downtown with Devon Tower & Project 180 construction later followed by the streetcar once all of that was completed.

Yeah my wife is finishing up her last year at OU and I visit her every weekend. The drive on I35 from downtown to Norman is an absolute nightmare. Not to mention the stretch of I35 just before the Turner Turnpike exit near Frontier City, where they've had two of the three lanes blocked off for several months now for God knows what. OKC is a nice city, but the amount of traffic they have for their size is ridiculous and makes me never want to go back :o.

Quote from: Rattle Trap on December 11, 2018, 03:27:49 PM
Yeah my wife is finishing up her last year at OU and I visit her every weekend. The drive on I35 from downtown to Norman is an absolute nightmare. Not to mention the stretch of I35 just before the Turner Turnpike exit near Frontier City, where they've had two of the three lanes blocked off for several months now for God knows what. OKC is a nice city, but the amount of traffic they have for their size is ridiculous and makes me never want to go back :o.

I work alone; however you  :)  have experienced our growing pains.  8)

The federal government is paying for 90 percent of the current work, so it will not be affected by recent budget cuts from the state Legislature. In June, lawmakers decided to divert about $150 million in ODOT funding to help close a hole in next year's budget. Agency officials warned that delays in the department's eight-year construction plan are likely if those cuts hold. The department's long-term scheduling and budgeting process will be complete in October.--Oklahoma Journal Record--Brian Brus The Journal Record, August 7, 2017

Subsequent phases will cost about $97 million total. In 2019, I-235 will be reconstructed further north to NW 63rd Street. Also that year, flyover ramps and bridges will be built for northbound I-235 to westbound I-44 and eastbound I-44 to northbound Broadway Extension. And in 2020, westbound I-44 to northbound I-235 will be reconstructed. >:(

ODOT BNSF RAIL BRIDGE MOVE:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQAdbv02Kj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQAdbv02Kj8)


An abandoned railroad bridge is being eyed for conversion into a pedestrian crossing over the Oklahoma River as development continues along both the north and south shores:  https://newsok.com/article/5543026/proposal-suggests-oklahoma-river-pedestrian-bridge (https://newsok.com/article/5543026/proposal-suggests-oklahoma-river-pedestrian-bridge)

Oklahoma City passed the Better Streets, Safer City bond & MAPS initiative tax extension in September 2017.  Funds for this project were included in the 2017 General Obligation Bond election.  

Voters authorized city leaders to raise and spend an estimated $1.5 billion over the next decade for municipal needs—primarily public safety and streets—in the Sept. 12 election. Here are five takeaways from election day:  https://newsok.com/article/5564266/5-takeaways-from-oklahoma-citys-bond-sales-tax-election (https://newsok.com/article/5564266/5-takeaways-from-oklahoma-citys-bond-sales-tax-election)

Funding is in place for this project to come to fruition.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/heartland072718d.jpg)

Groundbreaking held for Oklahoma City new Heartland Headquarters (Global Payments, Atlanta):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvWEfSKaFiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvWEfSKaFiw)

That's a nice get for OKC and a good looking building.  We need more out-of-state companies expanding here. 

Quote from: SXSW on December 12, 2018, 11:19:11 AM
That's a nice get for OKC and a good looking building.  We need more out-of-state companies expanding here. 

You're going to see more companies expand and/or relocate into Oklahoma.  Oklahoma's Quality Jobs Program appears on the surface to be a big give-away.  The U.S. economy is ripe for corporate expansion--these companies are looking for greener pastures.

You will see Tulsa & Oklahoma City benefit from companies who want to expand their operations into other areas where you have two growing airports in Will Rogers World Airport (OKC) & Tulsa International (TUL); cities where you have clean air and a growing population of young & well-educated professionals.   

You don't have the crowded expressways/highways that you see in places like Atlanta, Dallas, Denver & Houston.  Yet, look for more investments by OKC-Tulsa in quality of life venues like The Gathering Place and Riversport Rapids; also in sports options.   I still say Tulsa is a better option for MLS soccer or NHL ice hockey than OKC in that you don't have an existing NBA franchise to compete for sports dollars.   A team in either city would be a big draw from the other; therefore you could make a case that OKC/Tulsa are one catchment area.  You would have 3,000-5,000 season ticket holders from OKC who would have no trouble taking the 91 mile Turner Turnpike drive.

Let's not forget about future  Passenger Rail between OKC-Tulsa under intense study:   https://www.normantranscript.com/news/passenger-rail-will-return-connecting-tulsa-to-okc/article_c99c53b2-763d-11e8-b116-ab1352191997.html (https://www.normantranscript.com/news/passenger-rail-will-return-connecting-tulsa-to-okc/article_c99c53b2-763d-11e8-b116-ab1352191997.html) 
http://www.newson6.com/story/38483798/kansas-rail-company-seeks-passenger-train-service-between-okc-tulsa (http://www.newson6.com/story/38483798/kansas-rail-company-seeks-passenger-train-service-between-okc-tulsa)

Quote from: Laramie on December 12, 2018, 01:11:55 PM
You would have 3,000-5,000 season ticket holders from OKC who would have no trouble taking the 91 mile Turner Turnpike drive.

Let's not forget about future  Passenger Rail between OKC-Tulsa under intense study:

A TUL to OKC maglev with affordable ticket prices seems about as likely as Tulsa getting any passenger rail on the promise it will become a reality if we bankroll OKC first.

I was down in OKC yesterday near the capitol and took the opportunity to drive down through the Midtown area, particularly the area along Broadway near 10th street.   I haven't been down there in quite a while, and have to say I was impressed.  There are several breweries within just a few blocks (most were closed when I was there, but I did bring back some great beers from Prairie that you can't get in Tulsa), and some really eclectic restaurants and stores.   I'm thinking it's worth a return trip when I have time to do a better tour of the area and hit all the breweries.  Overall, thumbs up.

I always enjoy visiting my tax dollars whenever I'm in that area.  ;D

Quote from: ELG4America on December 14, 2018, 09:21:54 AM
I always enjoy visiting my tax dollars whenever I'm in that area.  ;D

Right...... All of OKC owes Tulsans for everything.   Get off your cross for Christ's sake.

(https://i.imgur.com/D0yVmsi.jpg)

Streetcar rides are free today December 14 thru January 5 for the historic streetcar rollout:  https://www.oklahoman.com/hitting-the-rails-oklahoma-city-set-to-inaugurate-streetcar-service/article/5617688 (https://www.oklahoman.com/hitting-the-rails-oklahoma-city-set-to-inaugurate-streetcar-service/article/5617688)

QuoteAfter a rigorous safety review, two years of construction and six months of testing and training, the Oklahoma City Streetcar is set to announce, "All aboard."
...Transit officials prepared to accommodate 10,000 to 15,000 riders on opening day, based on averages in other cities, and up to 50,000 for the opening weekend.

Rides will be free the first three weeks.

Mayor Holt discusses the OKC streetcar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyqURy_wKeA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyqURy_wKeA)

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on December 14, 2018, 10:42:15 AM
Right...... All of OKC owes Tulsans for everything.   Get off your cross for Christ's sake.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/vk7VesvyZEwuI/giphy.gif)

Quote from: Laramie on December 18, 2018, 03:53:56 PM

AutoZone Mega hub facility to open in south Oklahoma City:

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/autozone081118.jpg)
Progress on the AutoZone Megahub facility, pic via OKCTalk Forum:  http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=463-AutoZone-to-open-first-OK-mega-hub-in-South-OKC (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=463-AutoZone-to-open-first-OK-mega-hub-in-South-OKC)

AutoZone has approximately 20 AutoZone Mega Hubs in the U.S.; this will be the first hub located in the State of Oklahoma constructed in Oklahoma City.

Oklahoma City is current home to an O'reilly-Ozark Automotive Warehouse

You just posted about a super sized AutoZone store?

Seriously?

Quote from: swake on December 18, 2018, 04:20:05 PM
You just posted about a super sized AutoZone store?

Seriously?

Distribution center.

The Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority is set to vote Wednesday on whether to choose Colony Partners to develop a mix of 138 apartments and 4,000 square feet of retail as part of its proposed $22 million "700 West" plan at NW 4 and Shartel Avenue.

QuoteThe proposal includes a mix of affordable and market rate housing, with rental rates starting at $675 a month for qualified tenants.

Quote from: Laramie on December 19, 2018, 10:42:45 AM

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960-42ed6e4c7ab2f7980b363b590fb626b6.jpg)

I have a few issues with this rendering.

apartment complex with the majority of the spaces empty?
Everyone drives Lambos and Porches?

They can afford their cars because the rent is so affordable.

Quote from: ELG4America on December 19, 2018, 02:11:28 PM
They can afford their cars because the rent is so affordable.

Good point, a hide-a-way for dead beat non paying child support dads who avoid paying the bills for perpetuating the population.  ;D

It's IMO just shows opportunity plan for development to recruit investors with emphasis on areas to develop potential structures with supported parking in areas suited to brace a particular enterprise.


There is a pdf file that corresponds with this.

Quote from: Laramie on December 20, 2018, 12:27:23 PM

Oklahoma City INVESTMENT PROSPECTUS A Platform for Action Plan: Opportunity Zone (OZ)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oppotunity1.jpg)

(https://www.tripsavvy.com/thmb/m1aG56E8r4UWIxWQ2JYTLKioZ4M=/950x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/high-angle-view-of-cityscape-against-sky-during-sunset-912958726-5b6df57ac9e77c005086b04d.jpg)

What is an opportunity zone: https://newsok.com/article/5610854/oklahoma-city-development-specialists-watching-opportunity-zones (https://newsok.com/article/5610854/oklahoma-city-development-specialists-watching-opportunity-zones)

It's IMO just shows opportunity plan for development to recruit investors with emphasis on areas to develop potential structures with supported parking in areas suited to brace a particular enterprise.


There is a pdf file that corresponds with this.

Yeah that's a horrible urban development plan, so hopefully it doesn't look anything like this when it's all finally developed.

Quote from: PhiAlpha on December 20, 2018, 04:28:05 PM
Yeah that's a horrible urban development plan, so hopefully it doesn't look anything like this when it's all finally developed.

The parking garage district!

Sounds nice.

Quote from: PhiAlpha on December 20, 2018, 04:28:05 PM
Yeah that's a horrible urban development plan, so hopefully it doesn't look anything like this when it's all finally developed.

Graphics aren't the best to be desired; however these are areas that are open for consideration.   It's more about the capital investments opportunities; hence OZ (opportunity zones).  My biggest surprise is the 4-square block area where the Cox Convention Center sits.   Omni's deal with OKC stipulates that the Cox cannot be used as the city's convention city and that if the Cox site is demolished and a hotel is planned for any part of those four square blocks,  Omni has the first rights to build on that site.

Many OKCTalk posters want the 4-square block site to be broken up to 4 blocks and returned to the original street grid.  The problem with returning it to the original grid is the underground parking which is slightly elevated above the original street grid.   This is the site they found the operations of the Chinese laundry & underground businesses that operated in the 1920s.

QuoteHundreds inhabit caverns
For decades, the existence of the subterranean Chinatown has been debated, despite Li's research and written records that seem to confirm its reality.

Unlocking the secrets of Oklahoma City's mysterious city: https://newsok.com/article/3069770/unlocking-the-secrets-of-oklahoma-citys-mysterious-city (https://newsok.com/article/3069770/unlocking-the-secrets-of-oklahoma-citys-mysterious-city)

QuoteBradley Wynn is an urban archaeologist. He's studied downtown Oklahoma City for years. He says in the corner of Robinson and Sheridan, where the Cox Convention Center now stands was a secret underground society for Chinese immigrants, afraid to spend too much time in public because of anti-Chinese sentiments."

Historians recall hidden "Chinese underground" under OKC streets https://okcfox.com/archive/historians-recall-hidden-chinese-underground-under-okc-streets (https://okcfox.com/archive/historians-recall-hidden-chinese-underground-under-okc-streets)

Quote from: swake on December 21, 2018, 11:06:01 AM
The parking garage district!

Sounds nice.

Swake it does sound nice.  Hopefully, there's more to the parking garage district.

OKC has put an added emphasis on parking.   Anytime you build a tower or development, you need to have the parking to support that development.   We've learned that parking garages aren't the most rosy structures--newest garages are being planned with a facade of somewhat that hides the rough look of most parking garages.

Whenever I have to park in downtown OKC the last of my concerns is how the garage looks.  It is what it is, a parking garage--it serves no other purpose unless you've added some retail storefront or lease space to the garage.

Oklahoma City's underground metro concourse despite its shelter advantages has virtually killed the downtown street life interaction you see in most downtowns.  Midtown & Bricktown does possess vibrant street lifes; those areas are why the initial 6.9 miles of streetcar rail loop exits.  Oklahoma City was very ambitious with the streetcar, OKC has 6.9 mile streetcar loop.  Dallas has a 2.45-mile; Kansas City 2 mile loop--both cites plan to expand their streetcar routes.

Metro underground concourse (The Underground):   http://downtownokc.com/underground/ (http://downtownokc.com/underground/)

If there is anywhere in OKC where you wouldn't need a bunch of parking garages it is in this area around Myriad Gardens.  There is a streetcar circulator already operating through there to connect it to the rest of downtown/Midtown/Bricktown.  There will likely be an extension to the OUHSC in the future to connect to jobs over there.  And you have Santa Fe Depot which will be the downtown transit hub for Amtrak (including the existing line to Ft Worth and future lines to Wichita and Tulsa) and commuter rail to Norman and Edmond.  You could actually live and/or work in this area without a car.

Quote from: SXSW on December 21, 2018, 04:14:56 PM
If there is anywhere in OKC where you wouldn't need a bunch of parking garages it is in this area around Myriad Gardens.  There is a streetcar circulator already operating through there to connect it to the rest of downtown/Midtown/Bricktown.  There will likely be an extension to the OUHSC in the future to connect to jobs over there.  And you have Santa Fe Depot which will be the downtown transit hub for Amtrak (including the existing line to Ft Worth and future lines to Wichita and Tulsa) and commuter rail to Norman and Edmond.  You could actually live and/or work in this area without a car.

My brother lives in Sycamore Square North condominiums he rarely dives his car.  He loves the downtown walk or ride his bike thru town. 

You mentioned the Amtrak or Eastern Flyer that will connect OKC to Tulsa it's doable.   

Quote from: Laramie on December 21, 2018, 08:42:11 PM
My brother lives in Sycamore Square North condominiums he rarely dives his car.  He loves the downtown walk or ride his bike thru town.  

You mentioned the Amtrak or Eastern Flyer that will connect OKC to Tulsa it's doable.  

I picked up from a Facebook post that the streetcar tracks are starting to cause issues with people on two wheels.  Someone ended up with pins in their ankle from taking a spill on their motorcycle on the tracks.  Quite likely a "Hold my beer and watch this" episode trying to straddle a rail, but be careful around them.

Quote from: Conan71 on December 21, 2018, 09:31:07 PM
I picked up from a Facebook post that the streetcar tracks are starting to cause issues with people on two wheels.  Someone ended up with pins in their ankle from taking a spill on their motorcycle on the tracks.  Quite likely a "Hold my beer and watch this" episode trying to straddle a rail, but be careful around them.

People on 2 wheels need to be aware of their surroundings.

Quote from: Red Arrow on December 21, 2018, 10:10:10 PM
People on 2 wheels need to be aware of their surroundings.

Indeed!

Quote from: Conan71 on December 22, 2018, 12:37:03 AM
Indeed!

Especially those on the wrong side of the road.  Gives all you responsible riders a bad name.

I rode the Rosebud Red streetcar yesterday; there were a group of what appeared to be 5 younger adults 16-22 years of age on the downtown bird scooters, one darted right in front of the streetcar near the downtown I-HOP as it was making its turn toward the Bricktown Ballpark. Thankfully, the streetcar was fully loaded moving about 10 mph;  these rail vehicles can't stop on a dime like regular cars.   The young man laughed as he slid to the side bounced over the curb and barely escaped a date with death.

The bird scooters will be a concern once the streetcars aren't at full capacity like the one we rode yesterday (Saturday, 12-22-18) that completed the full 6.9 mile loop.

Some Oklahoma City Construction updates:

Our city looks like a sea of cranes...

Monarch: among the many new structures rising in Midtown-Automobile Alley on the streetcar loop.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/monarch111718.jpg)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/monarch3.jpg)


Broadway Park:

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/broadwaypark092218.jpg)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/broadwaypark072618.jpg)

New critical data center for Oklahoma Gas & Electric.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oge122218a.jpg)
Replacement for the Gold facade building below that will become the new convention center garage.
(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention122218.jpg)

Pics via OKCTalk Oklahoma City Development Thread...

Can this thread get moved to another part of the forum?

Quote from: hello on January 02, 2019, 07:58:47 AM
Can this thread get moved to another part of the forum?

It's renamed OKC stuff....is there an "about OKC" topic that I have missed?

Quote from: hello on January 02, 2019, 07:58:47 AM
Can this thread get moved to another part of the forum?

Who cares man? I enjoy looking at what happens down the turnpike. This forum needs more posters like Laramie, who you know, actually post. It's activity is embarrassing when compared to okctalk.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 02, 2019, 07:49:22 PM

It's renamed OKC stuff....is there an "about OKC" topic that I have missed?

I don't know what you missed but this is the Tulsa Development part of the forum.

Quote from: hello on January 03, 2019, 07:50:50 AM
I don't know what you missed but this is the Tulsa Development part of the forum.

That was sardonic.


But there are some interesting pics coming through....

  
A long-delayed museum will resume construction this year.
By Miguel Rios:  https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/center-staged/Content?oid=5406462 (https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/center-staged/Content?oid=5406462)

The total construction budget is $37 million, Wilson said. The interiors of the building have not been constructed and some of the exteriors remain unfinished, so ADG is looking for companies that can fully complete the facility.

Located at the crossroads of America, where four interstate highways intersect, the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum is expected to be a world-class facility with hundreds of thousands of visitors a year.

The building was designed nearly 20 years ago, so Pepper Henry and his team looked at the design and made changes to modernize the facility and make it more efficient.

"We took a little time to kind of refresh the interior and rearrange some things to make the user experience much better and to help us on the operational side," he said.

Lighting systems were upgraded to LED lights, phone booths were removed and replaced with water bottle filler stations, and all major exhibits were moved to one area.

The Mezzanine Level gallery will be for changing and touring exhibitions. The first exhibition will be a 10-year loan from the Smithsonian Institution, which will essentially serve as a time capsule of 100-year-old native items.

"This will be the most important project I'll work on in my professional career because I'm a member of one of the tribes here in Oklahoma. I'm an enrolled member of the Kaw Nation; I'm also Muscogee Creek. Every one of us that works here is an enrolled member of a tribe in Oklahoma and this means so much to us because we're telling our story," he said. "I'll never have an experience like this anywhere else where this means so much personally."

Construction on the cultural center is set to resume sometime around March.

Please stop posting about OKC on a Tulsa forum.

Enough is enough.

If we are taking a poll, I vote that Laramie keep posting the OKC stuff in the thread now titled "OKC stuff."  I guess I don't see what the big deal is because I am not aware of any requirement to open threads, and this thread has been conveniently titled "OKC stuff," which takes about 98% of the mystery out of it.

I don't mind there being an OKC Development thread, maybe a mod can just change the name?  Keep all the OKC stuff in one spot though.

Quote from: SXSW on January 03, 2019, 04:31:52 PM
I don't mind there being an OKC Development thread, maybe a mod can just change the name?  Keep all the OKC stuff in one spot though.

I don't mind either.   But not in the "Talk about Tulsa > Development and New Business" subforum.

Hell, OKCtalk has Tulsa stuff separate.  Maybe have a section specifically for non Tulsa development?

I don't mind OKC stuff in here somewhere. But why does it have to be in the "Downtown Development Overview" thread? I agree with suggestions to keep it all in one OKC thread. I rarely make it over to OKCtalk so it's useful to have this here.

A few suggestions:

• Rename "The Burbs" to "Other Oklahoma localities"

   This thread would go here

• Combine "Restaurant Reviews" & "Other Local Reviews"
• Rename "Non-Tulsa Discussions" to "water cooler"
• Move "Local & State Politics" to "water cooler"
• REMOVE "National & International Politics"

Quote from: RecycleMichael on January 03, 2019, 02:25:44 PM
Please stop posting about OKC on a Tulsa forum.

Enough is enough.

If you don't want to see stuff about OKC, you could probably save yourself a lot of trouble by just avoiding a thread titled "OKC Stuff"...

Quote from: BKDotCom on January 04, 2019, 09:51:50 AM
A few suggestions:

• Rename "The Burbs" to "Other Oklahoma localities"

   This thread would go here

• Combine "Restaurant Reviews" & "Other Local Reviews"
• Rename "Non-Tulsa Discussions" to "water cooler"
• Move "Local & State Politics" to "water cooler"
• REMOVE "National & International Politics"

The Burbs isn't all bad...after all, OKC in reality is just a suburb of Tulsa!  Tulsa is the main, more important 'show'.   Quaint little bedroom community at the other end of the turnpike..l.

Oklahoma City Streetcars will be free to ride through Feb. 1, Embark transit said Friday.

Plans had been to collect the $1 fare beginning Sunday.


(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960_blur-19158c56cf3fc35cf000ae70f97d2131.jpg)
Saturday, January 5, 2019 | by William Crum/Oklahoman

Public possibilities

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960_blur-73be6ed31af06074950d091a02138a12.jpg)
A park and development over Interstate 235 between downtown and the Oklahoma Health Center is one of several "big sky" ideas that continues to be discussed by some civic leaders. [Rendering by Miles Associates Architects]

Q: In one of last year's chats, another reader asked about adding taller buildings to the skyline. I think your answer was to improve education and then we could expect half a dozen skyscrapers. What exactly would this look like? A: Start with the basics and go from there. It's 2019 and we should not accept any school not having a complete sidewalk connection to nearby neighborhoods. We should realize that there are forces out there who claim they are against more funding for schools because of perceived waste and I've seen and heard these same folks talking about how they really want to do away with public education.

Realize that and understand that's where they are coming from, right or wrong.


If we are to continue having a public school system, then make teacher salaries among the highest in the country to attract the best talent. Look at housing down payment assistance as a way to draw talent in the same way Tulsa is offering $10,000 per person to relocate to their city (hint: having a more targeting effort aimed at public school teachers will go a lot farther in impact).
Expand and improve after-school programs for kids. Get CareerTech to open visible branches at inner-city schools. Put your best people, your best resources, at the worst performing schools.

These efforts will attract the people who build cities.


Saturday, January 5, 2019 | by Steve Lackmeyer/Oklahoman https://www.oklahoman.com/potential-maps-4-projects-but-not-a-new-downtown-arena-emerging-with-vote-possible-next-winter/article/5619441 (https://www.oklahoman.com/potential-maps-4-projects-but-not-a-new-downtown-arena-emerging-with-vote-possible-next-winter/article/5619441)

I admire your spite

Oklahoma's two major metropolitan areas are on the verge of break-out; each city with its own identity. The Turner Turnpike is the fastest vehicle link between both cities.  There are preliminary plans to address the future of rail transit between both cities who have growth in suburbs like Broken Arrow, Jenks, Bixby, Owasso, Norman, Edmond, Moore & Midwest City.

We have two major growing airports in Will Rogers World & Tulsa International; this unites us closer together.

Our moderate growth gives us time to plan ahead for the future, make rationale decisions that will affect the future of our communities.

Oklahoma has the water resources in our lakes, streams, rivers & reservoirs that will make us attractive to corporations, companies & businesses looking to relocate in a state that provides an urban environment braced for families & young professionals.

Quote from: Laramie on January 05, 2019, 01:58:25 PM

Oklahoma has the water resources in our lakes, streams, rivers & reservoirs that will make us attractive to corporations, companies & businesses looking to relocate in a state that provides an urban environment braced for families & young professionals.

Maybe those water resources are why we have been in drought for so much of the last few years....we don't have water for "major expansion" of industry. 

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 06, 2019, 01:53:41 PM


Maybe those water resources are why we have been in drought for so much of the last few years....we don't have water for "major expansion" of industry. 

Not aware this was a problem.  Please name the project(s) in particular that wanted major expansion in Oklahoma where they cited a lack of water resources as a decision for major expansion?

Quote from: Laramie on January 06, 2019, 02:05:29 PM
Not aware this was a problem.  Please name the project(s) in particular that wanted major expansion in Oklahoma where they cited a lack of water resources as a decision for major expansion?

No specifics other than the general casting around looking for water that OKC is involved in.  In particular, trying to steal it from the Native Americans...again.  And the ongoing issues keeping the lakes full during the last few years.  The water for new industry comes from the same drought stricken places that agriculture and recreation are all vying for.  We can do some measured expansion, but if we "suddenly" - as in 10 or 15 years - doubled the industry (and accompanying population, infrastructure, and recreational needs) in this state, there would be issues.

We have doubled our population in the last 40 years or so (+/-) and water is available as needed now, but the 'cushion' is dramatically smaller than the past.

Add to the fact that groundwater is being contaminated at an increasing rate, there will be spot shortages.   Norman - gets about 40% of it's water from wells and they have had to shutdown at least 3 of their wells in just the last few years - arsenic and other contaminants.   One of the things in their 2060 plan is reuse of water.  Treat it, send it to homes, then gather it back through the sewer treatment plant and put it back into Lake Thunderbird to go through treatment/use again.   (Local nickname - Lake Dirtybird.)

This may be where you obtained the term steal; Oklahoma has water resources; thanks to the late Robert S. Kerr who served as U.S. Senator representing Oklahoma from 1949 to 1963.  One of his major projects:  The McClellan-Kerr Arkansas River Navigation System, a series of 18 locks and dams making the waterway navigable from the Tulsa Port of Catoosa to the Mississippi River.

Here are the alternatives; sell water to Oklahoma City or to Fort Worth-Arlington.


 

QuoteIt's worth noting that this debate has been ongoing since 2007, when Oklahoma City raised the prospect of appropriating water from Sardis Lake. Opponents all along have argued that solid scientific data has been lacking, or that city officials are looking to "steal" from those who live in the southeastern part of the state, where rivers and lakes are vital to tourism and economic development. This legal challenge is one more attempt to plug the future pipeline.

Another challenge to OKC water deal:  https://newsok.com/article/5577351/another-challenge-to-okc-water-deal (https://newsok.com/article/5577351/another-challenge-to-okc-water-deal)

Sardis Lake is located 5 miles north of Clayton, Oklahoma, along Oklahoma Highway 2 in Choctaw Country in southeastern Oklahoma. The lake covers 14,360 acres, with 117 miles of shoreline.

Quote"This is a major victory for Oklahoma, with all nine justices agreeing with our argument that Texas does not have the right to come into Oklahoma and take our water," Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt said. "This unanimous decision will affect all western states governed by multistate water compacts."

Supreme Court sides with Oklahoma in water fight  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/13/supreme-court-water-texas-oklahoma-compacts/2382849/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/13/supreme-court-water-texas-oklahoma-compacts/2382849/)

Do you realized that Oklahoma population in 1930 was 2.4 million; in 1960 it rose to 2.3 million.  It took Oklahoma 30 years to recover from the results of the Depression and the infamous Dust Bowl eras in which an estimated 400,000 people left the state.

More Oklahoma City Midtown development


Pics via OKCTalk development forum.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 07, 2019, 03:45:55 PM

No specifics other than the general casting around looking for water that OKC is involved in.  In particular, trying to steal it from the Native Americans...again.  And the ongoing issues keeping the lakes full during the last few years.  The water for new industry comes from the same drought stricken places that agriculture and recreation are all vying for.  We can do some measured expansion, but if we "suddenly" - as in 10 or 15 years - doubled the industry (and accompanying population, infrastructure, and recreational needs) in this state, there would be issues.

We have doubled our population in the last 40 years or so (+/-) and water is available as needed now, but the 'cushion' is dramatically smaller than the past.

Add to the fact that groundwater is being contaminated at an increasing rate, there will be spot shortages.   Norman - gets about 40% of it's water from wells and they have had to shutdown at least 3 of their wells in just the last few years - arsenic and other contaminants.   One of the things in their 2060 plan is reuse of water.  Treat it, send it to homes, then gather it back through the sewer treatment plant and put it back into Lake Thunderbird to go through treatment/use again.   (Local nickname - Lake Dirtybird.)

According to this USGS report, arsenic and hexavalent chromium are naturally occurring.  I'm not sure if you were insinuating that the ground water was being contaminated by industry or human activity.  Pretty fascinating read if you have not already. 

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2005/3111/

There is very little doubt that at least the western half of the United States is going to have to get its act together on water management and very soon.  We were within weeks of losing our water supply after the Ute Park Fire last summer.  Cimarroncita Reservoir on Philmont Scout Ranch is our primary water source which is all mountain-shed water.  It was about depleted before the monsoons finally came in mid-July due to the severe drought here last year.  With all the ash and other byproducts of the fire washing into the Cimarron River which is our secondary water source, releasing water from Eagle Nest Lake would have been of no benefit so we would have been seriously screwed had we not gotten the rains in July and August!

Much better winter so far with plenty of snow in the high country and down here as well.

Quote from: Laramie on January 08, 2019, 08:09:12 PM
More Oklahoma City Midtown development

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/towneplace010818a.jpg)

https://www.kriyahotels.com/our-hotels/

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/townplacesuites010819.jpg)

Pics via OKCTalk development forum.

Sorry Laramie, but that building is UGLY.  Is that the best the developers can come up with?  I don't see any retail on the ground floor to encourage locals. 

Quote from: Conan71 on January 08, 2019, 08:41:25 PM
According to this USGS report, arsenic and hexavalent chromium are naturally occurring.  I'm not sure if you were insinuating that the ground water was being contaminated by industry or human activity.  Pretty fascinating read if you have not already. 

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2005/3111/

There is very little doubt that at least the western half of the United States is going to have to get its act together on water management and very soon.  We were within weeks of losing our water supply after the Ute Park Fire last summer.  Cimarroncita Reservoir on Philmont Scout Ranch is our primary water source which is all mountain-shed water.  It was about depleted before the monsoons finally came in mid-July due to the severe drought here last year.  With all the ash and other byproducts of the fire washing into the Cimarron River which is our secondary water source, releasing water from Eagle Nest Lake would have been of no benefit so we would have been seriously screwed had we not gotten the rains in July and August!

Much better winter so far with plenty of snow in the high country and down here as well.

They said small concentrations occur naturally, then skated all around other possible sources in that article.  But they did talk about creation of arsenic from oil getting into the aquifer near Bemidji, MN and elevating arsenic.  Would love to see what they have to say about that for Oklahoma, given the much more massive amount of oil spills and ground water contamination we have had for over 100 years.  NE OKlahoma has extreme difficulty getting a good drinkable water well - as I have been finding out in the last couple years - due to the omnipresent contamination by oil industry.  State water board has a map of all the water wells in the state and there aren't many that are viable close to Tulsa - especially in my area of interest near Oologah.

https://toxics.usgs.gov/highlights/2015-01-26-arsenic_plumes.html


And if one wants to go all "conspiracy theory"  on the topic, it really isn't that big a leap to get to where one may think that there are 'corporate water interests' that encourage the degradation of wells and surface water supplies so they can make big bucks selling you (anyone) a bottle of water.  Even better if you are forced into it, because they have the capital to invest in the process of making water "clean" and "safe".  Water will be much more lucrative than oil in the next few decades - you can see the work in process in Colorado for the last 100+ years...just try to buy some water rights there! 

Quote from: joiei on January 08, 2019, 09:19:23 PM
Sorry Laramie, but that building is UGLY.  Is that the best the developers can come up with?  I don't see any retail on the ground floor to encourage locals. 

It's beyond awful.

Quote from: swake on January 09, 2019, 11:55:16 AM
It's beyond awful.

LMAO, no need to apologize, it's dog pound ugly   ...glad you guys got a good laugh!   ;D

                                                          Oklahoma City Convention Center
                                                                  200,000-square-foot exhibit hall on the ground floor, divisible into four spaces
                                                                    30,000-square-foot ballroom, with a 10,000-square-foot pre-function space and a 4,000-square-foot balcony
                                                                    45,000 square feet of meeting space, which can be configured in up to 27 rooms.

                                                          Omni Convention Center Hotel
                                                                   605 guest rooms
                                                               50,000 square feet of ballroom and meeting space.
                                                                                                Fairfield Inn & Suites
                                                                                                       133 guest rooms    
                                                                                                       865 spaces.
                                                                                                       435-foot-long enclosed skyway is to connect the garage to the convention center.
                                                                                                       500 surface parking on the convention center complex
     

Quote from: swake on January 09, 2019, 11:55:16 AM
It's beyond awful.

No chance that passes Automobile Alley design review.  I am skeptical of the origins of the design slide.   I don't believe it was ever intended to represent the final design. I think it was a place holder in a presentation.  Also note they had the DT district name incorrect.   Midtown and not automobile alley.

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on January 09, 2019, 12:12:44 PM
No chance that passes Automobile Alley design review.  I am skeptical of the origins of the design slide.   I don't believe it was ever intended to represent the final design. I think it was a place holder in a presentation.  Also note they had the DT district name incorrect.   Midtown and not automobile alley.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/townplacesuites010819.jpg)

I hope it's a placeholder.  Just imagine if you were on the design & review committee--no you just didn't bring us some crap that looks like that.

The design & review committee will go into complete shock if this is ever presented before their committee.   :-[

  Oklahoma City convention center complex construction pic progress via OKCTalk forum:

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/omni010519b.jpg)

How did OKC end up with so much underutilized (or flat out empty) land between downtown and the river? I get the part cut off by the interstate, always harder to join developing areas when a physical barrier is in place. But downtown OKC has been in a 25+ year revival.  With the "old" convention center, the gardens, and the arena (which turned into an NBA arena), not too mention easy access to downtown and bricktown - it seemed ripe for incremental development projects. Heck, it seems that at some point it was razed - did an "urban renewal" plan fall flat (see, e.g., the empty lots north of 244 in downtown Tulsa)?

I'm not trying to be critical, God knows Tulsa has pockets we destroyed intentional, through policy, or through one quirk or another.  I've just always wondered as I drive through that area and then see all the other developments going on.  At least you are able to capitalize on the it for the current project!

The large area south of Bricktown is the CO OP site and was just recently cleared.   The other area south of Reno one block north and one block south of the old  I40 allighnment and all the way to the river was effectively killed off by the highway.   The density that was there prior to the highway was mostly cleared and turned into blighted industrial use.   It is being cleaned up and developers/investors have acquired enormous chunks of land.   However,  it is a slow process to develop with inflated land costs, competing infil developments still available in the core of DT and the ever changing retail environment.   There is also the "South OKC" perception problem similar to North Tulsa.   The area doesn't have any historic neighborhoods and is a clean slate for high quality single family development.  I truly believe this area is the perfect fit for infill similar to the Wheeler District that is being developed in OKC.   Hard to believe back in the day along the river there was a dense area with a zoo and golf course.   

https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/

The other issue was the impact of the failed Pei Plan, which cleared a significant amount of dense development throughout the core of DT OKC resulting in he loss of numerous Art Deco treasures in OKC.  It has taken 25 years of momentum to overcome the damage that was done.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk92/gandjdunlap/OKCdowntownaerial.jpg

https://goo.gl/images/fCnUAT

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Criterion_Theater_OKC_1929.jpg

https://newsok.com/article/5546732/im-pei-legacy-in-okc-mixed-on-his-100th-birthday

Truly incomprehensible what OKC destroyed for urban renewal in the 60's.   

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on January 09, 2019, 02:32:12 PM
The other issue was the impact of the failed Pei Plan, which cleared a significant amount of dense development throughout the core of DT OKC resulting in he loss of numerous Art Deco treasures in OKC.  It has taken 25 years of momentum to overcome the damage that was done.

(http://okcmod.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/8-pei-plan-model-panorama.jpg)
                            1960's Oklahoma City downtown Pei Plan
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Ieoh_Ming_Pei.jpg)

I.M. Pei (Chinese American Architect) introduced the Pei plan which included a downtown OKC Galleria shopping mall (retail) was killed by the Metro underground concourse.  Pei was very upset with the underground Metro-concourse because it killed the downtown street life.

University of Oklahoma and Oklahoma City Drone Video (4K)...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JNM09hPXL0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JNM09hPXL0)

Quote from: Tulsasooner78 on January 09, 2019, 02:37:09 PM
Truly incomprehensible what OKC destroyed for urban renewal in the 60's.  

                                             Yes, our city demolished some jewels.  There are relics of this structure throughout the core; God forgive them for they know not what they do...

Quote from: Laramie on January 09, 2019, 04:25:17 PM

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oAPmZVy9XCQ/VE6zD_kNORI/AAAAAAAAJ1o/U0YQrugQXC4/s1600/baum%2B1.jpg)
The Baum Building sat at the corner of Robinson and Grand (Sheridan) in downtown Oklahoma City. This was the work of Layton and Smith, the same firm that designed the Oklahoma State Capital building, and was completed in 1910. This structure was demolished in 1973 as part of the urban renewal movement.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fLzoJkAIR9g/VE6zGkJ-TlI/AAAAAAAAJ1w/fvipjcuEC1I/s1600/doge%2B1.jpg)
                                                The Infamous Baum Building

                                             Yes, our city demolished some jewels.  There are relics of this structure throughout the core; God forgive them for they know not what they do...

Your bottom photo there is the Doge Palace in Venice.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dwf85dKVAAA447Y?format=jpg&name=large

Quote from: swake on January 09, 2019, 05:34:17 PM
Your bottom photo there is the Doge Palace in Venice.

Oops, I pasted those pics  from a site which had the Baum Building at the top and the second pic at the bottom.  My badd, didn't take the time to read...

Just received news on the TownPlace Suites.  It has been modified for the design & review committee according to OKCTalk forum.

Looks a tab bit better:

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/towneplace011019.jpg)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/towneplace011019b.jpg)

It has been modified; horse shore shaped U; still  :D; this building if approved, will be east of the Heartland Payments HQ.

Specs:  
            9 stories
        160 rooms
        140 parking

TownPlace Suites & Heartland Payments plan to acquire spaces from the Gaylord Branch Downtown YMCA garage; both are on/near the streetcar route off Broadway.

Quote from: Laramie on January 10, 2019, 08:24:51 PM
Just received news on the TownPlace Suites.  It has been modified for the design & review committee according to OKCTalk forum.

Looks a tab bit better:

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/towneplace011019.jpg)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/towneplace011019b.jpg)

It has been modified; horse shore shaped U; still  :D; this building if approved, will be east of the Heartland Payments HQ.

Specs:  
            9 stories
        160 rooms
        140 parking

TownPlace Suites & Heartland Payments plan to acquire spaces from the Gaylord Branch Downtown YMCA garage; both are on/near the streetcar route off Broadway.

That's better?

Zero chance of design review approval

Quote from: swake on January 10, 2019, 08:31:52 PM
That's better?

Guys be nice, that's Cimarex's little sister.

One thing about the design & review committee; they are strictly an advisory group.  The council is under no obligation to take their recommendation; however, it's difficult to conceive that you would give a group this authority to make decisions and don't accept their recommendations.

Now the 1st rendering; again was DOG-POUND UGLY.   :-[   Forgive me guys, I can't stop laughing; especially Swake's comment 'That's better?'  ;D

The 2nd rendering IMO was better--however, we need to accept the decision of the design & review committee.  Afterall, if you're west of the TownePlace like Heartland Payments, you don't want a building next to yours that detracts from your beautiful glass structure.  

This isn't the case of two uglys side by side.   More like Glenda in the Wizard of Oz next to the wicked witch--you would have to be a desperate cock-hound to knock on the wicked witches' door.  ;)

Quote from: ELG4America on January 11, 2019, 01:23:16 PM
Guys be nice, that's Cimarex's little sister.

That design review committee needs lots and lots of photos of Cimarex. Both the before renderings and actual photos.

Future 'uncertain' for Jewel Box Theatre as church sale looms https://www.oklahoman.com/future-uncertain-for-jewel-box-theatre-as-church-sale-looms-theatrical-companys-longtime-production-director-is-leaving-at-mid-season/article/5619968 (https://www.oklahoman.com/future-uncertain-for-jewel-box-theatre-as-church-sale-looms-theatrical-companys-longtime-production-director-is-leaving-at-mid-season/article/5619968)

QuoteThe future of Oklahoma City's oldest continuously operating community theater is uncertain now that its longtime production director is leaving mid-season and the theatrical company's relationship with its sponsor church may be evolving.

Jewel Box Theatre has been an outreach of First Christian Church of Oklahoma City for decades, with productions performed on the in-the-round stage at the church, 3700 N Walker. The theater's current season is its 61st, but the church has been staging plays continuously for nearly a century under the Jewel Box moniker.

At the heart of the matter is the church's plan to sell its 31.8-acre property and iconic building at the corner of NW 36 and Walker Avenue. The property has been on the market since 2016.

Boeing delivers first of new tanker aircraft to Air Force: https://www.oklahoman.com/air-forces-latest-refueling-tanker-delivered-to-air-force/article/5619909 (https://www.oklahoman.com/air-forces-latest-refueling-tanker-delivered-to-air-force/article/5619909)

               (https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960_blur-d04b8347b1e88a8d7ec2268a8f2f720c.jpg)
KC-46A Pegasus taxis at Boeing Field after completing a test flight. Boeing has delivered the first of nearly 200 of the refueling craft to the U.S. Air Force ahead of its deployment to Oklahoma air bases. [Photo by Jack Money, The Oklahoman]

The Pegasus will be able to link with more than five dozen different airplanes, both combat and support, during midair refueling operations. During extensive flight testing, six KC-46 aircraft completed more than 3,800 flight hours and offloaded more than 4 million pounds of fuel.

Boeing operates an engineering capability center in Oklahoma City that serves the U.S. Air Force and other Boeing customers.

Monarch building construction update via OKCTalk forum.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/monarch4.jpg)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/monarch010519.jpg)
Notice all the construction canes throughout this area--all the way to the state capital building top background.

I'm really curious what will eventually happen to a carvana in ~15 years. I'm not sure if Carvana the company would be around or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if the building isn't a car selling facility in 10 years. They generally aren't place where you would expect a typical Hertz/Turo style operation. Do you think they could be converetd to office/retail?

Quote from: buffalodan on January 14, 2019, 09:47:45 AM
I'm really curious what will eventually happen to a carvana in ~15 years. I'm not sure if Carvana the company would be around or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if the building isn't a car selling facility in 10 years. They generally aren't place where you would expect a typical Hertz/Turo style operation. Do you think they could be converetd to office/retail?

Great question.  When I first heard of Carvana; my first thought, why do you need a car vending machine.  You can track the delivery then arrange to drive the vehicle off when you pick the thing up.   

As you mentioned; could they be converted to office/retail?   Probably the office pods of a massive car dealership if and when the delivery novelty wears off.  Just don't see this sustainable long term--because 'it's my car and I want it now...'

It's like seeing those new vehicles being delivered on the freight trains.  As children, we use to hunt pigeons & tadpolds near the OKC freight yards downtown; when we came across cars and cattle on freight trains and thought; man, if we can figure out how to get the car off the freight train; it would be easy to drive it off.  We gave up and kept catching pigeons & tadpoles--til that novelty wore off and mother put her foot down--either clean up after the pigeons/tadpoles or let them go.

Interview with Mayor David Holt:     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7dy4gjOxzc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7dy4gjOxzc)

QuoteThe mayor said he made no apology for the downtown focus of MAPS 1 and MAPS 3 but to the extent MAPS for Kids was about neighborhoods, "I believe that demand exists once again."

In his speech, Holt reviewed several dozen ideas for MAPS 4.

Falling into broad categories, among them were mobility, education, sports and entertainment facilities, economic development and job creation, social ills, and neighborhood enhancement.

Transit was citizens' No. 1 request in MAPS 3, he said, "and it is again in MAPS 4."

Improved bus service, including express buses, bus shelters and streetcar extensions are on the list.

Voters have consistently supported MAPS extensions and bond proposals for sidewalks but in a city spread across 621 square miles, Holt said, "there is still much to do."

QuoteSports and entertainment venues could be in the mix:

(https://www.mondodr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Energy-Arena-edit-696x522.jpg)

(https://www.nba.com/thunder/sites/thunder/files/styles/story_main_photo/public/st_practice_150409.jpg?itok=b_q8C51p)
• Upgrading Chesapeake Energy Arena and practice facilities for the Thunder are vital, Holt said.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/arena4.jpg)
New State Fair Arena

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/arena7.jpg)
New State Fair Arena

• A $96.6 million coliseum, designed for horse shows, is proposed to replace Fairgrounds Arena.

(https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/warehouse/v1.0/publiccontent/d1abd26c-2425-4f35-a5f2-44ce483cc893)
New multipurpose soccer & American football stadium

• A multipurpose stadium could become the home of the Energy soccer team, the mayor said.

Holt said the South Oklahoma City Chamber has floated the idea of an aerospace job training center.

Analysis: Plotting a new course for MAPS 4:  https://www.oklahoman.com/analysis-plotting-a-new-course-for-maps-4/article/5620675 (http://"https://www.oklahoman.com/analysis-plotting-a-new-course-for-maps-4/article/5620675")

Laramie,

What is going or what has already replaced the old race car track?

Parking

I'd love to see OKC get another hockey team (ECHL) and play in State Fair Arena.  Looks ideal for it.  Having the old Turnpike Rivalry back would help both fanbases.  I see alot of old Blazer fans at Oiler games right now.

Quote from: Conan71 on January 20, 2019, 11:31:31 PM
Laramie,

What is going or what has already replaced the old race car track?

As Tulsasooner78 mentioned--parking.    The old stock car races at the Grand Stands & Taft Stadium are a thing of the past.   Neighborhoods on N.W 10th & May (Grand Stands) and N.W. 23rd & May (Taft Stadium) complained of the constant noise those venues generated from the stock car events.

Quote from: Laramie on January 23, 2019, 12:15:31 PM


Oklahoma Gazette - New brews: https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/brewing-district/Content?oid=5524691 (https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/brewing-district/Content?oid=5524691)[/center]

Sounds suspicious....how could a Scotsman be angry while surrounded by his own brew?? 

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 23, 2019, 01:55:20 PM

Sounds suspicious....how could a Scotsman be angry while surrounded by his own brew?? 

My thoughts exactly.  This Welshman is always happy when surrounded with his brews.

Quote from: Conan71 on January 23, 2019, 11:05:16 PM
My thoughts exactly.  This Welshman is always happy when surrounded with his brews.

Oh, no...Welsh...?   My best friend's family is Welsh - Mom a war bride!  Still a bunch of them 'back home'.  And I did some tracking on my family - there were a couple of Welshmen hiding in the woodshed...!   (But mostly Irish.)

THAT explains a lot....!!  Lol...

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 24, 2019, 09:13:33 AM

Oh, no...Welsh...?   My best friend's family is Welsh - Mom a war bride!  Still a bunch of them 'back home'.  And I did some tracking on my family - there were a couple of Welshmen hiding in the woodshed...!   (But mostly Irish.)

THAT explains a lot....!!  Lol...

The primary rules of being a Welshman:

-No vowels.  Ever.  We can't be seen as compromising like the Poles who allow the occasional vowel between their "Z's" and "Y's".
-Short, wide, webbed feet.  We taught ducks to walk.
-Must be shorter than 5 feet tall.  Allows us to walk in many interesting places and hide in any beer vat.
-Yes, we are still arguing that J.R.R. Tolkien ripped off our kind when he wrote "The Hobbit" from nodding off in a Welsh pub one day
-Welsh rarebit (i.e. rabbit) did not come from Wales, it was actually St. Peter's way to get the misbehaving Welshmen out of Heaven, to wit:

"There is no evidence that the Welsh actually originated Welsh rabbit, although they have always had a reputation for being passionately fond of it (a fourteenth-century text tells the tale that the Welsh people in heaven were being troublesome, and in order to get rid of them St Peter went outside the Pearly Gates and shouted 'Caws pobi' (Welsh for 'toasted cheese')—whereupon all the Welsh rushed out and the gates were shut on them)."

That's us in a nutshell.  Toasted cheese and beer.  We love it!

Quote from: Conan71 on January 25, 2019, 11:49:23 PM
The primary rules of being a Welshman:

-No vowels.  Ever.  We can't be seen as compromising like the Poles who allow the occasional vowel between their "Z's" and "Y's".
-Short, wide, webbed feet.  We taught ducks to walk.
-Must be shorter than 5 feet tall.  Allows us to walk in many interesting places and hide in any beer vat.
-Yes, we are still arguing that J.R.R. Tolkien ripped off our kind when he wrote "The Hobbit" from nodding off in a Welsh pub one day
-Welsh rarebit (i.e. rabbit) did not come from Wales, it was actually St. Peter's way to get the misbehaving Welshmen out of Heaven, to wit:

"There is no evidence that the Welsh actually originated Welsh rabbit, although they have always had a reputation for being passionately fond of it (a fourteenth-century text tells the tale that the Welsh people in heaven were being troublesome, and in order to get rid of them St Peter went outside the Pearly Gates and shouted 'Caws pobi' (Welsh for 'toasted cheese')—whereupon all the Welsh rushed out and the gates were shut on them)."

That's us in a nutshell.  Toasted cheese and beer.  We love it!

No kidding!!  Friend is short, married a tall woman and had tall kids...interesting family photos...

What's to argue about - there is no doubt of Tolkien's inspiration!

Mom was wonderful person!  Second home - got fed twice each day - there and at regular home!   And always lots of Coca-Cola which we never got at home!

You guys are hilarious...

Col. Kenyon K. Bell gives briefing about current construction progress of the maintenance facility at Tinker Air Force Base that will support the Air Force's new tanker, the Boeing KC-46 Pegasus. Two hangars are visible behind Bell, the 72nd Air Base Wing Commander at Tinker. [Photos by Jim Beckel, The Oklahoman]

QuoteConstruction workers first broke ground on the new series of hangars in 2016. The base now provides Oklahoma with an economic impact of more than $4 billion, and is the largest single-site employer in the state.

"You think about adding 1,300 jobs to that, it is going to only increase the economic impact we have on our local community," said Bell.

Saturday, January 26, 2019 | by Dale Denwalt:  https://www.oklahoman.com/first-hangars-for-air-forces-new-kc-46-tanker-almost-complete/article/5621260 (https://www.oklahoman.com/first-hangars-for-air-forces-new-kc-46-tanker-almost-complete/article/5621260)

The first KC-46 Pegasus has been delivered to the U.S. Air Force from its manufacturer Boeing just as the first of 14 maintenance hangars for the aircraft are nearing completion at Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma City.

Quote from: buffalodan on January 14, 2019, 09:47:45 AM
I'm really curious what will eventually happen to a carvana in ~15 years. I'm not sure if Carvana the company would be around or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if the building isn't a car selling facility in 10 years. They generally aren't place where you would expect a typical Hertz/Turo style operation. Do you think they could be converetd to office/retail?

The actual office area of  Carvana location is about the size of a QT, the tower portion with the cars in it, each floor is under 450sqft. They really are not that big that you could convert it into something else if the fail as a car vending machine.

Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 27, 2019, 07:06:06 AM
The actual office area of  Carvana location is about the size of a QT, the tower portion with the cars in it, each floor is under 450sqft. They really are not that big that you could convert it into something else if the fail as a car vending machine.

Agree 100%--you've done some research.

Are they actually a car vending machine.   Don't claim to know all the 'ins and outs' about Carvana; maybe it's a vending machine or maybe not.  Have no idea what these glass encased cubicles will cost to build or if they could be scrapped.  They do look impressive, IMO with little knowledge of how they work, let alone how they could be repurposed.

Some information about Carvana; it costs $5 million to build each vending machine.

QuoteThe company, formed in 2012, entered its first market in January 2013. As of Dec. 31 it had sold 71,900 vehicles, generating $1.4 billion in revenue, the company said in its 2017 annual financial report.

But Carvana has yet to turn a profit, and as of Dec. 31 its accumulated losses totaled $316.9 million.

Carvana building automotive 'vending machine' in Indianapolis:  https://www.ibj.com/blogs/19-property-lines/post/69941-carvana-building-automotive-vending-machine-in-indianapolis (https://www.ibj.com/blogs/19-property-lines/post/69941-carvana-building-automotive-vending-machine-in-indianapolis)

I recall my marketing professor at the University of Central Oklahoma saying, "if it doesn't work in New York, Los Angeles or Chicago market it in Oklahoma City; if it doesn't work there, take it off the market."

There's one that I drive by frequently that's on Scottsdale Road at the 202 Freeway. I drove around it one day and someone was getting their car out of the building, and I just kind of chuckled about the whole thing.

I guess the idea works for those that don't want the whole hassle of going to a dealership because they're to busy binge watching Portlandia.

I did do a little research on the vehicles that they sell, I'm looking for something right now but not in a hurry to buy, and priced cars they had in inventory with similar cars through other dealers including Carmax and private sales, and Carvana was easily $1500.00 to $3500.00 above everyone else. I guess I'm just a cranky old fart that still wants to go look at, test drive and checkout the vehicle I'm going to buy before paying for it. With Carvana you don't get to actually see and touch the car until you've paid for it and taken delivery. You then have seven days to return it if you don't like it. Reviews I've read are mixed, but it's just not the way I want to buy a used car.

https://goo.gl/maps/N9UtBKN6dGo (https://goo.gl/maps/N9UtBKN6dGo)

Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 27, 2019, 01:04:13 PM
Carvana was easily $1500.00 to $3500.00 above everyone else.

Of course they are. They have to pay for the stupid gimmick car vending machine towers.

Quote from: swake on January 27, 2019, 01:26:41 PM
Of course they are. They have to pay for the stupid gimmick car vending machine towers.

(http://memecrunch.com/meme/AW8Q7/no-way/image.jpg)

No kidding. I figured that out in the first five minutes of my research and I have an education from Tulsa Public Schools.

Prefer slightly used cars; something broken in with less than 50,000 miles in the 20115-17 range.  Have purchased brand new vehicles before; however, the insurance (full coverage) will cost you extra buck$ a month--not to mention if you've had any citations on your record.  

Plus you need 'uninsured motorist' in Oklahoma because our state has a high rate of drivers who don't have any insurance whatsoever. Oklahoma loves to compete with Texas:

QuoteTexas continues to have the highest uninsured rate of 17.3 percent, followed by 14.2 percent in Oklahoma, while Massachusetts has the lowest uninsured rate at 2.8 percent. Six states—Hawaii, Iowa, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Rhode Island, and Vermont—and DC have uninsured rates at or below 5 percent.  Sep 13, 2018

As far as a dealership like Carvana, they have a good selection of certified vehicles under warranty--just don't have extra money to donate to their collection plate.

Quote from: Laramie on January 28, 2019, 07:19:28 PM
Prefer slightly used cars; something broken in with less than 50,000 miles in the 20115-17 range.  Have purchased brand new vehicles before; however, the insurance (full coverage) will cost you extra buck$ a month--not to mention if you've had any citations on your record.

If "you" buy any kind of performance car, it's nice to know the car's history of abuse or lack of abuse.  New is more expensive but if you keep it forever it's not so bad. 

QuotePlus you need 'uninsured motorist' in Oklahoma because our state has a high rate of drivers who don't have any insurance whatsoever.

I believe "uninsured motorist" insurance only covers medical expenses.  It won't fix your car.

Quote from: Red Arrow on January 28, 2019, 09:21:04 PM
If "you" buy any kind of performance car, it's nice to know the car's history of abuse or lack of abuse.  New is more expensive but if you keep it forever it's not so bad. 

I believe "uninsured motorist" insurance only covers medical expenses.  It won't fix your car.

It only covers medical expenses of passengers in your car that do not have medical insurance and only in an accident that you are not at fault for and if the other driver has no/insufficient insurance. It's basically pointless.

Quote from: Laramie on January 28, 2019, 07:19:28 PM

Prefer slightly used cars; something broken in with less than 50,000 miles in the 20115-17 range.  Have purchased brand new vehicles before; however, the insurance (full coverage) will cost you extra buck$ a month--not to mention if you've had any citations on your record.  

What is your transportation goal?  Minimize cost per mile?  Maximize the good feels of driving newer car?  Minimum maintenance?   Your goal is pretty good, but if you look for something north of 50k and under 100k, you can save many thousands of upfront cost with little or no additional cost per mile.  And with today's cars, generally get something that will last a long time, if you want to hang on for a while.  Well, except for Dodge cars...Dodge cars are gonna drain you!  They have been Fiat for quite a while now, and everything that goes along with that...

Quote from: swake on January 28, 2019, 09:46:08 PM

It only covers medical expenses of passengers in your car that do not have medical insurance and only in an accident that you are not at fault for and if the other driver has no/insufficient insurance. It's basically pointless.

Thanks for the information Red Arrow & Swake--did confirm this IMO too--to be pointless.   Plan to replace one of my current vehicles next year; my current insurer will attempt to add uninsured motorist;  they ask you to sign that you refused 'uninsured motorist.' 

Skirvin ghost tales may get a Hollywood treatment:

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960_blur-4067e4c135f06b9a0e5e406c795e87be.jpg)

The Skirvin Hilton Hotel and Effie, the fabled ghost who supposedly haunts the historic landmark, may soon be featured a Hollywood movie based on tales told by NBA players who say they've had encounters with the tragic and sometimes amorous apparition...

...We were quite aware of Effie, who legend says was a former maid impregnated by the hotelier and oil wildcatter W.B. Skirvin and then locked in the room on the 10th floor until she gave birth.

ESPN and Variety reported Monday afternoon the hotel will get the Hollywood spotlight with Imagine Entertainment announcing it has optioned an upcoming Players' Tribune oral history article on the Skirvin with the movie set to star Kyrie Irving of the Boston Celtics and "Uncle Drew" fame.

The reports do not indicate whether the studio will be filming at the historic hotel, but based on past response by the hotel's current owners, Marcus Hotels and Resorts, film crews may find themselves unwelcome guests.

Once the baby was born, the tale goes, Effie jumped, baby in her arms, to her death.

Repeat after me: It never happened.


Skirvin ghost tales may get a Hollywood treatment: https://www.oklahoman.com/skirvin-ghost-tales-may-get-a-hollywood-treatment/article/5621437 (https://www.oklahoman.com/skirvin-ghost-tales-may-get-a-hollywood-treatment/article/5621437)

Quote from: Laramie on January 29, 2019, 05:35:09 PM

Oklahoma City's Historic Skirvin Hotel

Skirvin ghost tales may get a Hollywood treatment:

(http://myimages.bravenet.com/121/813/779/TomNancyHeatherxxSmallx.JPG)

Quote from: Laramie on January 29, 2019, 05:25:20 PM
Thanks for the information Red Arrow & Swake--did confirm this IMO too--to be pointless.   Plan to replace one of my current vehicles next year; my current insurer will attempt to add uninsured motorist;  they ask you to sign that you refused 'uninsured motorist.'

They all require that - state law.

According to my insurance people...

Plans to redevelop 16 plus acres near The Penn Square Mall area at Penn Avenue & N.W. Highway:

Tulsa developer Ryan McNeill has big plans ($15 million investment) for Penn Central: http://www.news9.com/story/38791234/retail-project-to-transform-nw-okc-neighborhood (http://www.news9.com/story/38791234/retail-project-to-transform-nw-okc-neighborhood)

(http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15156&d=1550363552)


Progress on the 605 room Omni Hotel on the new OKC Convention Center Complex south of The Peake across Oklahoma City Boulevard.

Oklahoma City Ideas 4 MAPS are being submitted:


Analysis: Plotting a new course for MAPS 4:  https://www.oklahoman.com/analysis-plotting-a-new-course-for-maps-4/article/5620675 (https://www.oklahoman.com/analysis-plotting-a-new-course-for-maps-4/article/5620675)

The new Oklahoma City convention center & 605-room Omni Hotel (4-star hotel) and the 133 room Fairfield Inn & Suites will make 738 rooms available on the convention center site for OKC convention goers.  Plans are currently being made to book future conventions for the city.

Other ideas being submitted include:  Streetcar expansion to OU Health Science Center (Northeast from downtown)...  ...also to Capitol Hill area south and the Asian & Paseo District's north.

(https://img.evbuc.com/https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.evbuc.com%2Fimages%2F51938048%2F155649405031%2F1%2Foriginal.jpg?h=200&w=450&auto=compress&rect=0%2C401%2C540%2C270&s=0a2b76a260eb71ce13626a87bf6007ba)

... Bricktown Canal extension toward west Lower Bricktown to the Steelyard area.

MAPS III initiative expires April 1, 2020; therefore an extension vote would occur in September 2019 or February-March 2020.   Mayor David Holt is soliciting Ideas 4 MAPS extension.
OKC will not be able to use the current Cox Convention Center (formerly Myriad Convention Center) b/c of the agreement with the Omni--Cox CC can no longer be used for conventions.  There will be plans to demolish the CC--salvage the underground parking and possible bring the 4 square blocks back to the original street grid if feasible.

.

An Ideas for MAPS 4 one & a half-mile Bricktown Canal extension thru the Coop Mill parcel to the convention center complex would allow for more development along the canal and enhance the convention center complex.

An extension of the canal is a project that could be considered for MAPS 4 Ideas. It would probably cost twice as much to add one & a half miles to expand the canal. OKC spent $13 million for the current mile long Bricktown Canal. We could build some residential high rise and mix-use office along this portion of the canal thru the Coop Mill to the new convention center complex.

Note: The area along the Rock Climbing Silo underneath the elevated portion of the Shields Bypass toward the new convention center complex where the Fairfield Inn & Suites by Marriott have topped out a 5 stories.

An extension would have to go under the current Shield's Boulevard Bypass wind back north thru Scissortail Park to the new convention center complex.

Oklahoma City's monstrosity SkyDance Bridge towers 200 feet high, built at a cost of $6 million, the structure provides a pedestrian link crossing I-40 between the north and south areas of the city.  Its steel structure represents the state bird, Scissortail Flycatcher. It illuminates in all colors; sometimes seasonal, St. Patrick's Day green, Thunder Blue & Gold & Christmas variety colors.

Quote from: Laramie on February 19, 2019, 07:23:13 PM

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop021719.jpg)
Pic via OKCTalk forum

An Ideas for MAPS 4 one & a half-mile Bricktown Canal extension thru the Coop Mill parcel to the convention center complex would allow for more development along the canal and enhance the convention center complex.

An extension of the canal is a project that could be considered for MAPS 4 Ideas. It would probably cost twice as much to add one & a half miles to expand the canal. OKC spent $13 million for the current mile long Bricktown Canal. We could build some residential high rise and mix-use office along this portion of the canal thru the Coop Mill to the new convention center complex.

Note: The area along the Rock Climbing Silo underneath the elevated portion of the Shields Bypass toward the new convention center complex where the Fairfield Inn & Suites by Marriott have topped out a 5 stories.

An extension would have to go under the current Shield's Boulevard Bypass wind back north thru Scissortail Park to the new convention center complex.

Below is a conceptual plan prior to the new convention center complex to extend the Bricktown Canal: 

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canal022019.jpg)

Oklahoma City's ever changing weather.  Two Beautiful views of The Lighthouse on Lake Hefner following Tuesday's light snow flurries (above).  A jogger gets his workout despite the weather conditions. A scenic view (below) as the sun surrenders its tide on the calm waters of the lake.

Association of Central Oklahoma Governments | ACOG http://www.acogok.org/all-aboard-mayors-of-six-cities-sign-historic-agreement-forming-regional-transportation-authority-of-central-oklahoma/ (http://www.acogok.org/all-aboard-mayors-of-six-cities-sign-historic-agreement-forming-regional-transportation-authority-of-central-oklahoma/)


Regional Transportation Authority of Central Oklahoma forms  https://okcfox.com/news/local/regional-transportation-authority-of-central-oklahoma-forms (https://okcfox.com/news/local/regional-transportation-authority-of-central-oklahoma-forms)★

★Signing at Oklahoma City historic Santa Fe Station

Four developments planned via OKCTalk:


(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/foraker021719b.jpg)
The area near the railroad tracks in Automobile Alley continues to boom, with yet another large-scale redevelopment in the works.
...Last week, local developer Jeremy Foraker closed on the buildings that currently house Java Dave's, on 9th Street just east of the tracks.

The property consists of 3 warehouses at 10 NE 9th, comprising 45,650 square feet on .9 acres. Sales price was $2.6 million.

Foraker is still finalizing plans but expects to completely renovate the structures to include future restaurant, retail and office space and possibly apartments on the 2nd floor. Design is by Common Works Architects.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cains021919e.jpg)
Building permits were submitted for a $4 million renovation to the long-neglected building a 1 NW 12th, formerly home to Cain's Coffee...
...The 5-story building was purchased in 2016 by Midwest City contractor HGL Construction and the company has been marketing the space for lease for the last two years.

Plans call for a full renovation of the 1918 structure built in the Art Deco revival style. The white glazed brick and cast stone will be repaired, cleaned and sealed. The original steel windows will be restored with new insulated clear glass lights with repainted frames to be made operational.


(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mexicanradio4.jpg)

The Good Egg Dining Group has started work on the former Empire Slice House space in the Plaza District...  ...
The group currently operates Cheever's Cafe, Iron Star, Red Primesteak, Republic, Tucker's Onion Burgers, Kitchen No. 324, The Drake and Barrios. Most of the restaurants are in the the urban core, but Mexican Radio will be their first venture in the popular Plaza area.


(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/copepaseo022119b.jpg)

84 Hospitality Group, proprietors of Empire Slice House, Goro Ramen, Revolucion and Ponyboy, have released more information about their latest venture coming soon to the Paseo District.  Dubbed Gun, the group claims it will be the first of its kind in Oklahoma with a new wave approach to beverage and street food inspired by travel to Japan and other U.S. Cities...


OKCTalk latest news:  http://www.okctalk.com/content.php (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php)

Oklahoma City: Stadium and entertainment project proposed for MAPS 4

                     (http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium022819a.jpg)

                     (http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium022819i.jpg)

                      (http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium022819e.jpg)

                     (http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium022819b.jpg)

OKCTalk reports:

****************
Group proposes connecting south OKC to downtown through cultural and sports district

OKLAHOMA CITY (February 28, 2019) - A growing alliance of Oklahoma City residents and organizations today announced support for a MAPS 4 proposal to connect south Oklahoma City to downtown through a cultural, entertainment and sports district anchored by a City-owned multi-purpose outdoor entertainment venue.

The proposal calls for the City to include the venue in the MAPS 4 program, on which residents are expected to vote later this year. Such a venue would allow Oklahoma City to compete for numerous outdoor events including professional soccer matches, rugby and lacrosse games, high school multi-sport rivalries including Oklahoma State Championship Football games, national performances and a host of outdoor concerts, events and exhibitions.

"We fully support Mayor Holt's vision to usher in a more diverse and inclusive Oklahoma City," said Bob Funk, Jr., owner & CEO of Prodigal, LLC which operates the Oklahoma City Energy FC and is major driver of the proposal. "Connecting south Oklahoma City to downtown through a cultural and sports district would be a powerful component of building unity and showcasing our diversity."

The outdoor venue would be sized in accordance with USL, MLS, U.S. Rugby, Major League Lacrosse as well as Oklahoma Secondary School Field regulations and seat between 8,500 – 10,000 people for sporting events and 16,500 to 18,000 for outdoor concerts. It would be designed to allow for renovation to expand capacity, much like the Ford Center which later became Chesapeake Arena.

The City-owned venue would also serve to anchor a walkable district of diverse, modern restaurants, housing and retail, functioning as the public element of a public -private partnership.

"By funding a City-owned, multi-purpose outdoor venue as part of MAPS 4, Oklahoma City will open the door to private investment to complement the public project," said Chuck Wiggin, an Oklahoma City-based developer with a 38-year track record of successful investment and development projects.

Wiggin further highlighted how Opportunity Zones, as a part of the site selection process, would heighten the appeal for a new category of private investors. These areas, created by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act in 2017, are designed to spur private investment in designated low-income areas. Much of the City's Central Business District and surrounding land to the south falls within Opportunity Zone areas.

"Designing connections and walkability around destination areas will also serve to strengthen continuity between Oklahoma City neighborhoods, Scissortail Park, The Convention Center, Wheeler Park, Lower Bricktown and the Boathouse District," Wiggin said.

The proposal also underscores that a centrally located venue with close proximity to existing downtown attractions would promote citywide accessibility for all residents. However, the submittal stopped short of specifying a location, opting instead to leave the site open-ended, recognizing the City would ultimately determine a location that best suits the proposal.

"We have a keen interest and support for the proposal as a way to connect south Oklahoma City to downtown," said Dr. Raul Font, president of the Latino Community Development Agency. "We envision this district as one that our community can utilize to showcase Oklahoma City's vibrant and growing Latino culture."

The group also proposes the City work with Fields and Futures – a nonprofit founded by OKC Energy FC Partner Tim McLaughlin, which is dedicated to keeping youth in school by refurbishing athletic programs and facilities in Oklahoma City public schools – to add up to 10 soccer fields to Wheeler Park to be uses for tournaments that attract visitors to our region, youth development, league play, and engagement events between professional athletes and the community.

"I've witnessed soccer fields transform communities by inspiring young athletes and bringing neighbors together over a common interest," McLaughlin said. "MAPS 4 is Oklahoma City's chance to do this on a major scale."

"We have seen firsthand how soccer can unite so many people," said Peter Evans, Executive Director of the Oklahoma City Police Athletic League and incoming chairman of the South Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce, "Soccer is a sport a lot of kids play and has significant heritage in so many neighborhoods. As a favorite sport for many of our student-athletes and their families, sharing the game together becomes a relationship building tool for the police officers who serve as coaches and mentors through our program."

The group identified soccer, rugby and lacrosse as the fastest-growing sports in America, and pointed to a 2018 Nielsen study commissioned by the OKC Energy FC, in which 51 percent of Oklahoma City's direct market area are interested in or follow professional soccer.

The research further showed Energy FC's fan base is multicultural and millennial – largely part of the "MAPS generation."

The group also pointed to the many missed tourism and sporting event opportunities that Oklahoma City is currently unable to compete for due to its lack of an outdoor venue capable of hosting them. They cited Big 12, NCAA, NAIA and junior college soccer, U.S. Soccer Federation, U.S. Youth Soccer, college and club lacrosse, international and club rugby, NCAA Dll football games, e-sports and drone racing events Oklahoma City could pursue if such a facility is built as part of the MAPS 4 initiative.

Supporters include:

         Bob Funk, Jr., Partner, Energy FC, Owner and CEO, Prodigal LLC
         Tim McLaughlin, Partner, Energy FC, Founder, Fields and Futures
         Jake Edwards, President, United Soccer League (USL)
         Peter Evans, Executive Director, Police Athletic League and Chairman-elect,
         South OKC Chamber of Commerce
         Steve Hahn, President, AT&T Oklahoma
         Bob Ross, President and CEO, Inasmuch Foundation
         Dr. Raul Font, Latino Community Development Agency
         Chuck Wiggin, President, Wiggin Properties
         Adrian DeWendt, President and CEO, Special Olympics Oklahoma
         Scott Dedmon, Principal, ADG
         Alexander P. Brown, Commissioner, Major League Lacrosse
         John White, President, OKC Crusaders Rugby


Video animation: http://aplacetobringustogether.com/documents/Animated%20Video.mp4 (http://aplacetobringustogether.com/documents/Animated%20Video.mp4)

Stadium is designed for future expansion to accommodate Major League Soccer and American football.

Cool looking stadium but is there support for this in OKC?  I have a hard time believing there would be enough support for a similar project in Tulsa unless an MLS team was involved. 

This will be a challenge. 

The USL has given a deadline for all USL teams to have a solid financed stadium plan submitted on or before 2020. 

Don't believe that many of the posters on OKCTalk message board realize the possibility that Oklahoma City Energy FC could be forced to sell the team if they are not committed to a soccer specific stadium.

Got to spend a couple days in OKC last week.  Nice visit except for the ice!   Did finally get to go to Trappers Fishcamp!   Nice.  Looked all through the menu right up to the point where it said Crawfish Etouffee.  That's where I stopped - no point going further...

OKCTalk:  As Amazon is powering towards an opening later this year at its massive fulfillment center near Will Rogers Airport, the company has submitted plans to bring another large operation to Oklahoma City.


The on-line retail giant has leased 111,606 square feet of warehouse space located at 6101 SW 44th Street. The building was constructed by Industrial Developers of Oklahoma, the same Tulsa company that built Amazon's 300,000 square foot sortation operation at 1414 S. Council.

The new plant will produce made-on-demand items for Merch by Amazon, a service where content creators can upload their own artwork, have items printed (usually t-shirts and other clothing) and have it marketed on the Amazon website.


When a product is sold, it is delivered through the Amazon Prime service and a royalty is paid to the creator.

Currently, printing items through Amazon is by invitation only through an application process.

A similar plant was just opened in suburban Philadelphia which contains 48 industrial printers, 16 giant dryers as well as pollution control equipment and has the ability to operate around the clock. The company is expected to open many more made-on-demand plants in the coming years.

Last year, Amazon was awarded a patent for its new automated system that facilitates the rapid production of clothing, enabling Amazon to create and ship directly to the customers, bypassing middlemen and the huge oversees manufacturers who currently make most clothing in the U.S.

The move is seen as competition for silk-screeners who customize the same sort of items for various customers.

The number of employees is not presently known.

This would be the fourth Amazon facility within Oklahoma City: 2,560,00 square foot fulfillment center at 9201 S. Portland, the previously mentioned sortation facility, and 60,000 square foot delivery warehouse at 4401 E. Hefner.

It is estimated the fulfillment center alone will create 1,750 full-time jobs.

Construction update on the Monarch Building in OKC's Midtown-Automobile Alley.

Excerpts from OKCTalk report:

         (http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/10thf.jpg)

         Auto Alley redevelopment project will add to red-hot district (Auto Alley 11 & 23 NW 10th)

A local investment group has purchased two warehouse buildings near NW 10th and Broadway and is planning a full conversion to a mixed-use development.

    (http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/10thc.jpg)
         
Last May, an LLC led by oil and gas and agriculture businessman Richard Hefner purchased the buildings and nearly half an acre for $1.325 million.

Hefner is developing retail and office properties in Shawnee.

The renovation plan by Common Works Architects calls for remaking the 1925 structures to create attractive new tenant spaces and make significant upgrades to the site to enhance pedestrian and vehicular access.

A section of each building will be slightly reduced in size to create more parking and allow for open-air tenant space.

The buildings will be re-oriented to each other and NW 10th Street.

No leases have been signed but the owners are working with multiple tenants.

         (http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/foraker021719aa.jpg)

The project will add to the near one dozen development and restoration projects currently underway in the area east of Broadway Avenue in Automobile Alley.

Once largely blighted, dozens of buildings on either side of the railroad tracks have been transformed, at least partially fueled by a new quiet zone for trains and the streetcar which just began providing daily service along Broadway.

OKCTalk full story:  https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=44941&p=1067292#post1067292 (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=44941&p=1067292#post1067292)

Frankfurt Short Bruza are the design engineers for this project expected to be completed in 2021.

The design will provide 145,000 sq. ft. of addition space; it will allow for 9 new gates.   Oklahoma City WWRA is the largest airport in the state; total domestic enplanements rose 3.1 percent from 2017 to 2018.

KWTV-News 9, Oklahoma Cityhttp://www.news9.com/story/39258754/will-rogers-world-airport-reveals-renderings-for-expansion-project (http://www.news9.com/story/39258754/will-rogers-world-airport-reveals-renderings-for-expansion-project)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ballpark021719.jpg)

OKCTalk update on Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark; register & join the discussion @https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=29342&page=8&p=1067650#post1067650 (http://"https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=29342&page=8&p=1067650#post1067650")

Oklahoma City voters approved $27,500,000.00 to fund expansion & improvements to ASA softball stadium to increase seating capacity to 12,500 with a 4,000 seat upper deck; build the necessities like lockers rooms, TV booth for nationally televised games throughout the tournament.  These upgrades and expansion insured that the tournament will remain in Oklahoma City with a long-term commitment until 2035.

New 4,000 expansion upper deck seating will be available in time for the WCWS and World Cup of Softball Tournaments in 2020 and following years.

The WCWS has an estimated economic impact of $12 million to $15 million each year. The greatest portion of these dollars come from out-of-state visitors who fill our hotels, eat at our restaurants, shop at our stores, and visit other area attractions while they're here. Over the next few months, the city of Oklahoma City, with our help, will start major improvements to Hall of Fame Stadium. The improvements will create additional seating capacity and provide new restrooms and concessions, locker rooms, media rooms, a renovated press box and many more updates that will enhance the experience for the teams and fans.--Oklahoman, July 5, 2013

Join the discussion @OKCTalk:  https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43218&page=2&p=1067662#post1067662 (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43218&page=2&p=1067662#post1067662)

Bob steakhouse? That's a damn good get. I've been in Dallas a few times.

Quote from: sooneralum2012 on March 11, 2019, 10:41:19 PM
Bob steakhouse? That's a damn good get. I've been in Dallas a few times.

The original Bob's on Lemon was (and I assume still is) awesome.  The rest are all solid but not like that one.  This one will be a "hotel steakhouse", so probably good, but not outstanding.  Kind of like Ruth's Chris.  We have the one here in Tulsa in the Casino, and while I'm sure it's good, there are others in town that I would go to first.     

Quote from: rebound on March 12, 2019, 09:20:05 AM
The original Bob's on Lemon was (and I assume still is) awesome.  The rest are all solid but not like that one.  This one will be a "hotel steakhouse", so probably good, but not outstanding.  Kind of like Ruth's Chris.  We have the one here in Tulsa in the Casino, and while I'm sure it's good, there are others in town that I would go to first.     

Also like Arthur Bryant's in KC.  They used to have an outlet in the big Casino out by Worlds of Fun (Station I think it was called).  Now they have one at the Kansas Speedway they call Legends I guess.  But the original in DT KC on Brooklyn just can't be beat.  Best burnt ends ever.

Wonder what one would do with it when the novelty wears off?

Quote from: Vision 2025 on March 14, 2019, 02:04:14 PM
Wonder what one would do with it when the novelty wears off?

Fish tank for very large fish, giant houdini water escape tank, world's largest gumball machine...

Quote from: Townsend on March 15, 2019, 11:11:10 AM
Fish tank for very large fish, giant houdini water escape tank, world's largest gumball machine...

LMAO!  Those are some pretty good uses...   

The view of the future convention center garage is shown as it will appear from E.K. Gaylord looking north. The Boulevard Place apartments
and retail are shown at the northeast corner of the garage. [Renderings by TAP Architecture]

QuotePreliminary plans for an 1,100-space garage that is key to development of the convention center, Omni Hotel and a mix of housing and retail won approval Thursday by a review committee with the Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority...  ...The Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority, meanwhile, is preparing to start demolition of a former OGE Energy data center at the site, Oklahoma City Boulevard and E.K. Gaylord, within the next few weeks.

Oklahoman: March 15, 2019--Lackmeyer:  https://www.oklahoman.com/preliminary-plans-approved-for-1100-space-garage/article/5625883

The cost for the convention center garage was estimated as high as $40 million.  Looks as though the city will be able to construct this venue for an estimated $27.5. $12.5 million below their highest estimate.  Bids on the garage will go out this summer.

According to the Sooner Catholic (March 10, 2019 p. 3) the Father Stanley Rother Shine & 2,000 seat Basilica  ONE CHURCH, MANY DISCIPLES has exceeded its challenge goal of $80 million with $81,568,843 gifts/pledges to date 102%.

Sooner Catholic:  https://ecatholic-sites.s3.amazonaws.com/20256/documents/2019/3/Sooner%20Catholic%203-10-19.pdf (http://"https://ecatholic-sites.s3.amazonaws.com/20256/documents/2019/3/Sooner%20Catholic%203-10-19.pdf")

It is highly anticipated that the project is currently in the middle of about a year of pre-construction (value added designs, planning, regular design, budgeting, etc.) with target construction of this project to begin the 4th quarter of this year.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/westvillage031719a.jpg)
(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/westvillage031719b.jpg)

 

Huge mixed-use project at NW Expressway and Penn set for rezoning
Published on 03-21-2019 06:34 AM - OKCTalk News:  https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=604-Huge-mixed-use-project-at-NW-Expressway-and-Penn-set-for-rezoning (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=604-Huge-mixed-use-project-at-NW-Expressway-and-Penn-set-for-rezoning)

On March 28th, the planning commission will consider applications to rezone several large tracts at the southwest corner of NW Expressway and Pennsylvania, a key step towards a huge proposed mixed-use development.


(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/penncentral032019c.jpg)

A group led by Tulsa developer Ryan McNeil looks to demolish two large office complexes and a handful of homes and replace them with a complex that would feature a movie theater, hotel, apartments, restaurant, retail and office space and structured parking.

OKCTalk was first to report on the plans last July when neighbors in the area were being asked for their support.

Titled Penn Central, the conceptual design by architects Wakefield Beasley & Associates is similar to Avalon in Alpharetta, Georgia, a popular and acclaimed mixed-use project that was designed by the same firm.

Under the plan, NW 50th would be realigned to tie into an existing light on Penn that currently leads into 50 Penn Place. New vehicle access would also be added from east-bound NW Expressway.

If passed by the planning commission, final approval by city council would be required.

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/penncentral032019.jpg)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/penncentral032019b.jpg)

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/penncentral032019c.jpg)

Their streetlights dont seem to put much light on the streets.  The shielded bollard lights are a good idea, though.

That is the type of development I would like to see replace Promenade Mall.  Maintains its retail component but significantly less so and more concentrated in one avenue, with apartments, hotel and office.

Lighting has always been a problem here in OKC.  

As soon as the City or ODOT gets  the apparatus in place to repair or replace the outdoor lighting, the copper-scrap metal thieves are in a strategic place to attack; this happens on private as well as public developments.    We have had storm water street grill man hole covers stolen from the streets; I know, I drove over an uncovered one, did significant damage to my vehicle.

Thieves will savage anything they can get their hands on to turn a buck; yet it costs to the city thousands of dollars to replace.   Recall before they could get the S.E. 15th Street Bridge completed, thieves were stealing the aluminum rails on the side of the bridge elevated for pedestrian walk way.

More responsibility should be placed on the scrap metal buyers to question people about ownership who bring scrap metal (like man hole covers) into their operations;  these thieves should be arrested on the spot.

Sunday, March 24, 2019 | by Randy Ellis--Oklahoman

The honeymoon is about over for Interstate 235 commuters who have been enjoying a five-month respite from construction on the main thoroughfare that links Edmond and Oklahoma City.

Starting Monday, construction crews will begin work on a project to remake the I-235/I-44 interchange..

...The new interchange project will be complex, involving the building or reconstruction of 11 bridges, including the construction of two new flyover ramps that are designed to move traffic more efficiently from northbound I-235 to westbound I-44 and from eastbound I-44 to northbound I-235.

The flyover ramps, the tallest of which will be 70 feet in height, will replace the current cloverleaf ramps. Similar flyover ramps can be seen at the interchange involving the Kilpatrick Turnpike, State Highway 74 and Memorial Road in northwest Oklahoma City...

...Starting in mid-April and continuing through the fall, crews will be doing rehabilitation work on I-44 bridges over Deep Fork Creek between I-235 and Western Avenue. Major lane and ramp closures can be expected during the $6 million project, which is being done by Sherwood Construction of Tulsa.

Sometime within the next 45 days, crews also are expected to begin work on a project to replace and seal joints on the I-44 bridge over Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard. One lane in each direction will be closed while work on the $410,000 project is in progress:  https://www.oklahoman.com/disruptive-i-235-project-to-begin-in-okc/article/5626720 (https://www.oklahoman.com/disruptive-i-235-project-to-begin-in-okc/article/5626720)

QuoteThe Bower, 625 NW 4, consists of two types of housing — eight free-standing, two-story brownstones and a 24-unit, five-story condominium tower.

Developer Richard McKown said the project came together when three sets of property owners on the block decided to join forces to build a project bigger than what they could do on their own.

The Bower at Lee:  https://www.oklahoman.com/bower-designed-for-families-desiring-urban-living/article/5626602 (https://www.oklahoman.com/bower-designed-for-families-desiring-urban-living/article/5626602)

         Basketball            9,354
         Ice Hockey         8,250 est*
         Ice Shows            6,192
         Stage Events        9,282

*Based on seats behind dasher boards & upper deck retractable seats

Quote from: Laramie on March 16, 2019, 01:28:29 PM

South Oklahoma City's 2,000 seat Roman Catholic Basilica
& Father Stanley Rother Shrine

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960_blur-79414743cfc9282bca677ea1a04460a5.jpg)

(https://francklohsen.com/images/resized/images/uploads/blessed-stanley-rother-shrine/blessed-stanley-rother-5_1351_938_80.jpg)

According to the Sooner Catholic (March 10, 2019 p. 3) the Father Stanley Rother Shine & 2,000 seat Basilica  ONE CHURCH, MANY DISCIPLES has exceeded its challenge goal of $80 million with $81,568,843 gifts/pledges to date 102%.

Sooner Catholic:  https://ecatholic-sites.s3.amazonaws.com/20256/documents/2019/3/Sooner%20Catholic%203-10-19.pdf (http://"https://ecatholic-sites.s3.amazonaws.com/20256/documents/2019/3/Sooner%20Catholic%203-10-19.pdf")

It is highly anticipated that the project is currently in the middle of about a year of pre-construction (value added designs, planning, regular design, budgeting, etc.) with target construction of this project to begin the 4th quarter of this year.

Seems out of place for suburban OKC, but if they can afford it, okay then.

Quote from: DowntownDan on April 01, 2019, 09:41:17 AM
Seems out of place for suburban OKC, but if they can afford it, okay then.

The Oklahoma City Archdiocese purchased the 53-acre Brookside Golf Course at 9016 S Shields for $2.1 million in March 2015, according to Cleveland County Court Clerk records.  

The Roman Catholic Church has experienced tremendous growth south of OKC's I-40 crosstown.  The 89th Street areas just west of I-35 is where the OKC Archdioceses found to be the best areas to connect this emerging growth of the churches in Moore-Norman with those in South Oklahoma City.

The proposed development plan envisions an indoor and outdoor restaurant experience, a new location for Thunder Alley – which will also be used for Thunder special events including their annual summer basketball camps – and a new plaza at the intersection of Oklahoma City Boulevard and Thunder Drive designed to be an extension to the existing Southwest entry to Chesapeake Arena.

   

The Oklahoma City Thunder has submitted a conceptual proposal for a new Thunder Alley Entertainment Block to be opened in 2021.

    "It is important that the entertainment block strike a balance between being open and inviting while simultaneously providing a secure place for people to enjoy dinner and other pre-game and post-game activities."

The covered exterior dining area will be equipped with 3 food truck "docking stations." The Thunder special events venue is designed to be open air, but covered.

The design includes a pedestrian bridge between the arena and the restaurant.

    "We envision a seamless connection between the Arena and the entertainment block."

The plaza will house an approximately 24' diameter basketball sculpture with a mirror finish, a design Thunder officials hope becomes "'THE' place for photographic opportunities in Oklahoma City."

Lighting around the entertainment block will be capable of color change appropriate to the occasion, whether it be a Thunder game or a Christmas event.

    "The development will be guided by the level of quality that has become known as the Thunder Organization Design Standard. From conceptual design through the opening tipoff, this level of excellence that the Thunder expects and demands will be honored."

Officials also plan to begin a future Thunder "Ring of Honor," similar to bronze statues located in front of Staples Arena.

The remainder of the site will be developed as a controlled surface parking lot for approximately 70 cars.

The parking area may also host food truck events, street basketball events, and other temporary events.

    "The parking area will also be used as an off loading and parking site for the trucks that move traveling shows from Arena to Arena. For example, U2 has not come to OKC because our arena does not have room to park the 16-18 semi-trucks that support their show. The BOK in Tulsa, on the other hand, has hosted them because they can park their vehicles."

Construction is projected to begin in 2021 and Grand Opening Day is expected to be April 15, 2021.


Oklahoma News 4: https://kfor.com/2019/04/03/okc-thunder-proposes-new-thunder-alley-entertainment-block/ (http://"https://kfor.com/2019/04/03/okc-thunder-proposes-new-thunder-alley-entertainment-block/")

 
(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/costco040519a.jpg)


  Join the discussion at OKCTalk.com: https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=34911&page=44&p=1071058#post1071058 (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=34911&page=44&p=1071058#post1071058)

Good to see Costco finally open in OKC.  We've had one in Tulsa for 3 years.  :P

Quote from: SXSW on April 06, 2019, 05:01:43 PM
Good to see Costco finally open in OKC.  We've had one in Tulsa for 3 years.  :P

Tulsa has always had an advantage on reputable retail & wholesale establishments than OKC.   We are on the radar and quickly becoming more attractive for these types of establishments.

And now a press release through their PR firm:

*****************


Study Shows Benefits of Replacing Jim Norick Arena
'Big House' has served state's athletes, international competitions for 54 years

OKLAHOMA CITY (April 8, 2019) – Replacing the famous Jim Norick Arena – known as "The Big House" – at State Fair Park would provide an economic boost to Oklahoma City, according to a new study.

Crossroads Consulting, a nationally recognized expert in large public venue (LPV) consulting, found a new State Fair Park Coliseum would generate more than $230 million a year in direct spending and more than $400 million a year in total economic impact.

"'The Big House' has provided lifelong memories for high school athletes from across the state for generations and helped make Oklahoma City the 'Horse Show Capital of the World,'" said Oklahoma State Fair, Inc. President & CEO Tim O'Toole. "Unfortunately, the building is rapidly approaching the end of its useful life. The Crossroads study shows how much is at risk and how our entire community will benefit from investing in a new coliseum."

Additionally, Crossroads said a new coliseum would generate 10 percent more direct spending than the existing facility and create an extra 370 total jobs a year.

State Fair Park is an important economic driver and gathering place for Oklahoma City, the report found. Over the last three years, it has averaged a total attendance of more than 2.15 million visitors annually. The park's visitors generated more economic impact than three other city-owned facilities combined over the last three years – Cox Convention Center, Chesapeake Energy Arena and Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark.

"The report shows how important it is to invest in state-of-the-art facilities which will continue to attract people from the metro area, the state and the rest of the world," O'Toole said.

In January 2017, the City of Oklahoma City, which owns State Fair Park, commissioned an architectural firm to create plans for a modern coliseum with more than 4,700 fixed seats, 2,600 retractable seats and premium amenities such as suites, box seating and club opportunities.

Construction is expected to cost $95 million, and plans call for keeping the Norick Arena open during the process to minimize disruption.

"Building a new facility would have clear benefits for the Oklahoma City community. This need has been acknowledged for several years by the City of Oklahoma City and Oklahoma State Fair, Inc. The expected MAPS program to fund capital improvements presents an exceptional opportunity to secure funding for a project of this magnitude," O'Toole said. "We look forward to voters continuing to support the world-class facilities at State Fair Park as we fulfill our mission of economic development through tourism."

About Oklahoma State Fair, Inc.
Oklahoma State Fair, Inc., is a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit corporation that serves the people of Oklahoma and is dedicated to continuing the organization's heritage of education, entertainment and economic development through the operation of State Fair Park and the annual Oklahoma State Fair.

Surely those economic impact numbers are BS. $410 million annual return on a $95 million investment? No way building a new arena increases attendance that much. Moreover, state fair attendees are coming from within 100 miles so the total economic impact is significantly reduced because those are dollars spent at the fair instead of the mall. Not a huge difference.

I'm all for upgrading public assets. I event like the design. But don't tell clear mistruths to the public to sell some pet project.

https://twitter.com/BentFlyvbjerg

I've been following him recently and reading some of his articles/books. It is really helps bring a light to some of the numbers people throw around about large scale projects.

Quote from: ELG4America on April 09, 2019, 08:59:22 AM
Surely those economic impact numbers are BS. $410 million annual return on a $95 million investment? No way building a new arena increases attendance that much. Moreover, state fair attendees are coming from within 100 miles so the total economic impact is significantly reduced because those are dollars spent at the fair instead of the mall. Not a huge difference.

I'm all for upgrading public assets. I event like the design. But don't tell clear mistruths to the public to sell some pet project.

Just want to add that from a personal standpoint of what I have seen at State Fair Park in OKC; there are always activities going on at this 440 acre complex from gun shows, conventions, boat shows, appliance & furniture exhibits.

Here are samplings of some events staged at the Norick State Fair Arena:

     April
     Oklahoma Quarter Horse Spring Show
     AQHA Level One Central Championship
     Better Barrel Races World Finals
     
     June
     NRHA Derby
     Arabian Horse Association Youth Nationals

     July
     Arabian Horse Association Youth Nationals

     August      
     AQHYA World Championship
     Summer Shootout Barrel Race
     Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses
     
     September
     Oklahoma State Fair

     October
     Grand National & World Championship Morgan Horse Show
     Cinch USTRC National Finals

     November
     AQHA World Championship
     NRHA Futurity
     
     December
     World Championship Barrel Racing Futurity

Replacement of the Jim Norick State Fair Arena is long overdue.  

State Fair Park events:  https://statefairparkokc.com/schedule? (https://statefairparkokc.com/schedule?)

Quote from: Laramie on April 09, 2019, 09:54:38 AM
Just want to add that from a personal standpoint of what I have seen at State Fair Park in OKC; there are always activities going on at this 440 acre complex from gun shows, conventions, boat shows, appliance & furniture exhibits.

Here are samplings of some events staged at the Norick State Fair Arena:

     April
     Oklahoma Quarter Horse Spring Show
     AQHA Level One Central Championship
     Better Barrel Races World Finals
     
     June
     NRHA Derby
     Arabian Horse Association Youth Nationals

     July
     Arabian Horse Association Youth Nationals

     August      
     AQHYA World Championship
     Summer Shootout Barrel Race
     Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses
     
     September
     Oklahoma State Fair

     October
     Grand National & World Championship Morgan Horse Show
     Cinch USTRC National Finals

     November
     AQHA World Championship
     NRHA Futurity
     
     December
     World Championship Barrel Racing Futurity

Replacement of the Jim Norick State Fair Arena is long overdue.  

State Fair Park events:  https://statefairparkokc.com/schedule? (https://statefairparkokc.com/schedule?)

The arena at Tulsa's fairgrounds is far older than Norick Arena, by 33 years. And in no way should The Pavilion be replaced.

Quote from: swake on April 09, 2019, 10:04:08 AM
The arena at Tulsa's fairgrounds is far older than Norick Arena, by 33 years. And in no way should The Pavilion be replaced.

Well we Tulsans have quaint ideas about the value of history.


I genuinely don't care if they want to invest money, even state money, in the fair grounds. Our state should have great public buildings of which we're proud. But, its not like everything they do now will disappear in a year if they don't replace the arena and it also won't revolutionize the fair industry if they do replace it. 

Quote from: swake on April 09, 2019, 10:04:08 AM
The arena at Tulsa's fairgrounds is far older than Norick Arena, by 33 years. And in no way should The Pavilion be replaced.

Swake, you've had several renovations to the Tulsa Fairgrounds Pavilion.   The OKC State Fair Arena was thrown up with $2 million in 1963; a mini version of Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Phoenix.  Your Fairgrounds Pavilion was built back in the 1930s (WPA era), same as when OKC built the 6,200 seat Municipal Auditorium; these architecturally solid buildings stand strong today.

OKC's expanded entrance to State Fair Arena was the only renovation (besides paint) completed prior before the roof started falling apart.  SFA is a far inferior building than the Tulsa State Fair complex that includes IIRC one of the largest (200,000 sq.ft.) free clear-span buildings in the world under one roof.

The 75ft tall Tulsa Golden Driller statue makes Dallas' 55ft tall Big Tex look like a midget.

Quote from: Laramie on April 09, 2019, 03:52:07 PM
Swake, you've had several renovations to the Tulsa Fairgrounds Pavilion.   The OKC State Fair Arena was thrown up with $2 million in 1963; a mini version of Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Phoenix.  Your Fairgrounds Pavilion was built back in the 1930s (WPA era), same as when OKC built the 6,200 seat Municipal Auditorium; these architecturally solid buildings stand strong today.

OKC's expanded entrance to State Fair Arena was the only renovation (besides paint) completed prior before the roof started falling apart.  SFA is a far inferior building than the Tulsa State Fair complex that includes IIRC one of the largest (200,000 sq.ft.) free clear-span buildings in the world under one roof.

The 75ft tall Tulsa Golden Driller statue makes Dallas' 55ft tall Big Tex look like a midget.

According to the Expo Square website, the Expo Building, currently called River Spirit Expo Building, is 448,000 square feet with 354,000 of it being clear span. It's a very big building.

https://www.exposquare.com/p/planning/facilities--floor-plans/296

Expo had to be big to house the International Petroleum Exposition it was built for.  Even then, it spilled out over most of the area to the north - it was as big as the State Fair for displays and stuff.   And I went to a few of those - couple before the Expo and two after the Expo was built.  

Then it went out of business...


https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=IN030

Quote from: Laramie on April 09, 2019, 03:52:07 PM
Swake, you've had several renovations to the Tulsa Fairgrounds Pavilion.   The OKC State Fair Arena was thrown up with $2 million in 1963; a mini version of Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Phoenix.

You're not even close on that claim. Veterans Memorial in Phoenix, and OKC Fair arena opened with in weeks of each other in 1965. The Big House is not a smaller copy of Veterans Memorial.

QuoteNewspaper reports state that The Arizona State Fair Commission began planning for an "Arizona State Fairgrounds Exposition Center" as early as the fall of 1962. The Commission envisioned an indoor facility which could be used during the State Fair as well as year-round. In 1964, Phoenix architect Leslie Mahoney, of the Lescher and Mahoney firm (designers of the Orpheum Theatre in downtown Phoenix among others) presented the commission with the final plans, and construction began that summer. Tucson architect Lew Place (son of University of Arizona chief campus architect Roy Place, and who later took over his father's firm) was also involved in the design. The structural engineering firm was T. Y. Lin International.[3]

The unique saddle-shaped, tension-cable roof, supporting over 1,000 precast concrete panels, was considered innovative architectural engineering at the time. It may have been at least partially influenced by the equally innovative Dorton Arena at the North Carolina State Fair in Raleigh, completed in 1952. Veterans Memorial Coliseum also contains a series of murals by Phoenix artist Paul Coze. The design influenced later arenas' architecture, including the now-defunct Capital Centre in Landover, Maryland, and the Scotiabank Saddledome in Calgary, Alberta.

Broke ground   August 11, 1964[1]
Opened   November 3, 1965

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Veterans_Memorial_Coliseum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Veterans_Memorial_Coliseum)

QuoteThe Big House
Former names   Fairgrounds Arena
Address   333 Gordon Cooper Avenue Oklahoma City, OK 73107
Location   Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Owner   City of Oklahoma City
Operator   Oklahoma State Fair Park
Capacity   10,944
Opened   1965

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Norick_Arena (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Norick_Arena)

Phoenix

https://goo.gl/maps/UyYfj4MYbD12 (https://goo.gl/maps/UyYfj4MYbD12)

OKC

https://goo.gl/maps/FtBBZkaj7a52 (https://goo.gl/maps/FtBBZkaj7a52)

You could take Jim Norick Arena and the Page Belcher Fed. Court House and use them for the back drop of a Soviet military base during the cold war.

Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on April 10, 2019, 10:59:59 AM
You're not even close on that claim. Veterans Memorial in Phoenix, and OKC Fair arena opened with in weeks of each other in 1965. The Big House is not a smaller copy of Veterans Memorial.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Veterans_Memorial_Coliseum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Veterans_Memorial_Coliseum)



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Norick_Arena (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Norick_Arena)

Phoenix

https://goo.gl/maps/UyYfj4MYbD12 (https://goo.gl/maps/UyYfj4MYbD12)

OKC

https://goo.gl/maps/FtBBZkaj7a52 (https://goo.gl/maps/FtBBZkaj7a52)

You could take Jim Norick Arena and the Page Belcher Fed. Court House and use them for the back drop of a Soviet military base during the cold war

Good research dbacksfan 2.0,  Thanks for the correction.  Can't believe everything to hear out there.  Just so use to many of the projects and developments we construct in Oklahoma being smaller versions of things built it other states--I took the bait!  LMAO!

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/capitol092218e.jpg)

Best of luck in the 1st round of the NBA playoffs to our Oklahoma City Thunder...

(https://www.nba.com/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/thunder/playoffs-schedule-r1-1819.png)




.

Tuesday, April 16, 2019 | by Dale Denwalt

The Department of Defense has approved a $14.3 billion contract to Boeing Co. for work on B-1 Lancer and B-52 Stratofortress aircraft in Oklahoma City.

The contract will be for modification, modernization, engineering, sustainment and tests of the bombers' weapons systems. Funds can be allocated with separate task orders over the next 10 years.

Work will be done at Tinker Air Force Base, which is a significant part of the Air Force's maintenance, repair and overhaul network. Tinker already has been selected as the maintenance site for the long-range stealth bomber known as the B-21 Raider, which eventually will replace the B-1 and B-52. The Raider is expected to be delivered sometime in the mid 2020s.

Tinker is home to maintenance operations for several large military aircraft, including the new KC-46A Pegasus refueling tanker. Hangars for the Pegasus are now under construction at the base.

The contract that was announced last week will be a continuation of a similar contract awarded a decade ago to service the U.S. Air Force aircraft. A statement from the Pentagon noted the contract could include hardware and software development and integration, ground and flight testing, configuration management, studies and analyses and modernization.

"That's great news for our workforce here," Boeing spokeswoman Lori Rasmussen said. "Boeing's employment numbers in Oklahoma have been on an upward trend. They are expected to remain so. The bombers' modernization efforts will continue to play a significant role in the growth of the Oklahoma City site."

Boeing's first project under the new award will be for an advanced extremely high-frequency communications integration study costing an expected $1.2 million, Rasmussen said.

Boeing was the only company solicited for the contract because it is the original equipment manufacturer and owns all airframe and systems data, which limits the ability for competition, the Pentagon said.

 

    
         Estimated costs: $27,979,172
         Floors: 6 plus basement
         Spaces available: 1,100 plus
         Total Square Feet: 412,645
         Bids:  Summer 2019

Quote from: Laramie on April 11, 2019, 01:12:59 PM

Now, this $465 million park of all parks in the U.S. makes all Oklahomans proud; including myself.   Thank you George Kaiser.

My son, who lives in Tulsa gives me great raves about the Gathering Place.  He is an OTR truck driver; he been all over the U. S., so I've got to take him at his word.

We a building a 70 plus acre park (Scissortail) with the 40 acres upper park, downtown & 30 acre of the park extends south beyond the Skydance Bridge.  Hope we can learn from 'The Gathering Place' where the word is spreading about how awesome this place is in Tulsa. [/center]

He should know!   He has seen a lot, no doubt.


Run this by him sometime and see if he says, "Amen!!"  Truck driver vlogger talking about the lies the company always tells you...  (If they are talking, they are lying!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4Ct1LVVUTY

 
     Thursday, April 18, 2019 | by Dale Denwalt

At 30 feet long, the Valkyrie looks the part of a fighter jet and could be fitted with armament to support combat missions, and Kratos Defense officials said Wednesday it will be built in Oklahoma City.

The Valkyrie is a step up from the target drones now manufactured by the San Diego-based defense contractor, including the company's MQM-178 Firejet. The Firejet, also built in Oklahoma City, was on display Wednesday as Kratos celebrated the completion of the first unmanned aerial jets at its new manufacturing warehouse at Will Rogers Business Park.

Six Firejets already have been built here at the 101,000-square-foot warehouse, which remains sparsely furnished. Bare walls enclose a nearly empty office area. The production floor, at the moment, has much more space than Kratos can seemingly use.

However, Unmanned Systems Division President Steven Fendley said Kratos soon will need that space, and possibly more in the future.

"We'll be ramping that production capability up to as many as 350 (Firejets) per year in the short term," Fendley said. "As our production requirements go up, as our production contracts increase, we expect to need that space and we look forward to it."

Kratos' announcement that the Valkyrie will be built in Oklahoma earned a standing ovation from the crowd assembled inside the warehouse, which included employees, members of Congress and Gov. Kevin Stitt. Fendley declined to say when production would begin.

The Valkyrie had its maiden flight last month. It's capable of long-range flight at high sub-sonic speeds, the company said.

"It's basically a manned-aircraft size," Fendley said. "It has a bomb bay. It can carry ordnance. It can carry sensor systems that allow you to locate the enemy. It's intended to be a wing man."

While parts for the Firejet are manufactured in California, Kratos brings them to Oklahoma to integrate, assemble, test, crate and deliver them to its client, the U.S. Army. Once the company fills out its production facility in Oklahoma with machinery and an autoclave to manufacture composite materials, all of the small parts will be built here.

"For the most part, all the parts for the Firejet will be built here in this facility by the end of this calendar year," Fendley said.

Kratos has 20 employees in Oklahoma, but officials said they expect to grow the company's Oklahoma workforce to between 350 and 550 over the next three to five years.

   


     Thursday, April 18, 2019 | by David Dishman

Nearly 200 exhibitors and thousands of visitors are expected to attend the CannaCon marijuana convention in Oklahoma City on Thursday and Friday.

Held at the Cox Convention Center, the event is designed for those in or thinking about joining the industry.

"Anything you could need to start or run a business in the cannabis industry you could find here," CannaCon Marketing Director Angela Grelle said.

The convention sold 3,000 tickets as of Wednesday afternoon, Grelle said, with more expected to be sold Thursday and Friday. She is expecting up to 5,000 visitors.

Tickets for the event range from $40 to $150, depending on number of days and seminars an individual plans on attending.

"I would tell people to come early if they are registering because there will be long lines," Grelle said.

Registration starts at 9 a.m., and the convention runs from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. both days.

Seminars are scheduled throughout the conference, covering subjects such as laboratory testing, complying with regulations, payroll and human resources issues, THC extraction, grow strategies and more.

Oklahoma's implementation of medical marijuana has led to rapid growth for many companies, and many seminars are catered to providing assistance for the necessary tasks that accompany expanding companies.

The convention has other stops planned later this year in Detroit and Springfield, Massachusetts, before returning to Oklahoma City in September.