Being back in town and driving around I have some observation of things that are topics here and just wanted to share some thoughts on things.
I was down in the Brookside area I have to agree that Raising Canes is not a fit for the Best Hardware location. It just doesn't fit with the area. I like that most things really have tried to keep the vibe and the look that the area has and Canes just is not it. It sadly will be a sore thumb. I know there were people here that were in favor of the development of the, what was it 10 story building, at 31st and Peoria? I still think ther is something that could be done but I'd hate to see the loss of so much of the old growth trees that make up the whole area. JMO
I plan on checking out The Gathering Place because the last time I think I was here it wasn't completed. Which brings me to the new pedestrian bridge. I know its still under construction but from what I saw driving over the 21st/23rd street bridge I was just underwhelmed by the design. It just kind of disappears into the background.
It was really strange driving out to Chandler Park and seeing the new turnpike bridge going from Berryhill to Sand Springs was kind of a shock for me. I get it, it's progress, but it was a shock so to speak.
I'm glad to see that something is being done with the lower level of the park. It was one of my favorite areas there because it was quieter than the upper level and was always a good place to hang out with friends years ago.
The lights on the highways are too bright. I think they need to be the warmer more brownish color like the sodium vapor lights, and the actual fixtures are so out of date.
This also brings me to the digital billboards. Someone needs to petition the city or county to write an ordinance that they need to be dimmed at sunset and then shut them off at midnight. Period. Maricopa County passed an ordinance that requires just that that was part of a compromise between the advertising companies and the citizens to cut down on the light pollution.
It was really good to see to redevelopment around the 11th and Lewis area. Seeing so much dead space getting a makeover looks promising.
I am curious as to what is going on with the Remington Building at 41st & I-44. I noticed that on the side facing I-44 it seems they have replaced the black painted plywood with actual glass and it looks like there is progress to repair/restore the building.
As I said, just some observations from a native.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 23, 2022, 01:35:10 AM
Someone needs to petition the city or county to write an ordinance that they need to be dimmed at sunset and then shut them off at midnight. Period. Maricopa County passed an ordinance that requires just that that was part of a compromise between the advertising companies and the citizens to cut down on the light pollution.
We have something similar on the books. Its not proactively enforced so you must: 1. Know its a law, and 2. File a complaint with a city agency that (in the past) only inspects in the daytime.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 23, 2022, 01:35:10 AM
The lights on the highways are too bright. I think they need to be the warmer more brownish color like the sodium vapor lights, and the actual fixtures are so out of date.
The mayor etc. have been bragging about the great new LED lights that are so much better, but the fact is PSO is not installing the versions of these lights that would actually be better; instead installing a version that is too blue and more prone to glare.
The fix is not all that complicated: You simply change a couple numbers on the orders to get the new streetlights into compliance.
First step is to eliminate the welding-torch look of the LEDs that are so painful to the eyes by ordering a lower "color temperature."
PSO claims the bluer ones are more efficient, but that advice is ten years old and LEDs have evolved. Today you can get LED streetlights that are indistinguishable from the color of your living room light -- a number expressed as 2700K (2,700 degrees Kelvin).
So what is PSO installing instead? 4000K blue-rich light that promotes eye fatigue and has a disastrous effect on the natural rhythms of people and nature.
Another needed fix is to order the version that actually reduces glare (PSO didnt) and have additional certifications like "Dark Sky Compliant" (which translates to less glare and wasted light). Many of PSO's installations arent even level, kicking up more glare light.
PSO still gets to pick what they install, and, like the TV-on-a-stick digital billboards, lack oversight.
https://www.cooperlighting.com/global/brands/streetworks/929834/arch-archeon-medium-cobrahead-roadway-luminaire
Oh, and yes, you can also order the Amber version (which resembles the Sodium color we are all used to) and would be my pick for residential neighborhoods and ecologically sensitive areas like the zoo or the river parks.
If you want to see Memorial south of the Creek Tpk, now (11:30 PM Sat) would be the time to do it. Google traffic doesn't show any delays.
;D
Patrick, here some interesting reading on the billboard issues.
https://kjzz.org/content/1736274/maricopa-county-approves-new-rules-allowing-larger-electronic-billboards (https://kjzz.org/content/1736274/maricopa-county-approves-new-rules-allowing-larger-electronic-billboards)
https://kjzz.org/content/1389626/qaz-why-do-only-certain-metro-phoenix-freeways-have-billboards (https://kjzz.org/content/1389626/qaz-why-do-only-certain-metro-phoenix-freeways-have-billboards)
https://yourvalley.net/stories/county-supervisors-approve-billboard-advertising-amendment,273302 (https://yourvalley.net/stories/county-supervisors-approve-billboard-advertising-amendment,273302)
City of Phoenix (and most all of the suburbs followed suit) regulation change to 2700 kelvin lamps.
https://www.phoenix.gov/streets/led (https://www.phoenix.gov/streets/led)
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 23, 2022, 11:48:03 PM
Patrick, here some interesting reading on the billboard issues.
Our Achilles heel here is that any tribal member can buy a prime sliver of midtown real estate, put it in federal trust, and then lease the land to a billboard company who can put up whatever they want.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 23, 2022, 11:48:03 PM
City of Phoenix (and most all of the suburbs followed suit) regulation change to 2700 kelvin lamps.
https://www.phoenix.gov/streets/led (https://www.phoenix.gov/streets/led)
Most of the LED early-adopters (Boston, for example) installed early versions of LEDs that were very heavy in the blue spectrum, and people got up in arms having that outside their bedroom windows. Any savings those cities realized were subsequently wiped out when they had to go back and replace the DOE-recommended lights with newer lights that had warmer colors.
Where Tulsa stands now is that PSO is putting in the bluer lights and ignoring the lessons learned elsewhere, but hey, its only tax dollars.
As use of LED street lights grows, so do concerns over 'blue light'
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/regionals/south/2016/10/21/use-led-streetlights-grows-concerns-over-blue-light/KHONmxG20h6CcRRlslbsiM/story.html
The American Medical Association released a statement urging communities not to install bright LEDs with high levels of blue light, warning of effects such as reduced sleep time, low-quality sleep, and even obesity.
The statement also contained words of caution for drivers.
"Discomfort and disability from intense, blue-rich LED lighting can decrease visual acuity and safety," it said, "resulting in concerns and creating a road hazard."This is so incredibly easy to fix, yet we dont.
Quote from: patric on July 24, 2022, 10:51:22 AM
Where Tulsa stands now is that PSO is putting in the bluer lights and ignoring the lessons learned elsewhere, but hey, its only tax dollars.
PSO probably got them on the cheap from places getting rid of them.
Quote from: Red Arrow on July 24, 2022, 05:39:20 PM
PSO probably got them on the cheap from places getting rid of them.
We may have not got Panasonic but by golly we got some sh!tty streetlights!
Wish I had the focus to put an observations post together, because do the same thing every time I come up from Dallas to visit. Downtown is really starting to take shape. still a ways to go, but man, I don't feel like I have to grit my teeth and close my eyes while trying to explain we have a cool downtown anymore.
I do wish that the city would really work on South Tulsa more though. I can't help but notice just the lack of care for streetscape from anything south of 41st (This could be WAY wrong, but just what I notice when I drive around. It just gives the feeling that "We don't really care". It just seems like there could be SOME amount of effort put in to landscaping or beautification projects. Anything to alleviate our parking lot-wide streets lol.
Growing up in Tulsa I guess I never really noticed it, but Living in Dallas makes me really appreciate the amount of trees, landscaping, generally smaller parking lots, etc. It really kicks people in the butt to have some pride in their neighborhoods. Would be nice if there was some of that in Tulsa!
Quote from: D-TownTulsan on July 25, 2022, 11:13:30 AM
Growing up in Tulsa I guess I never really noticed it, but Living in Dallas makes me really appreciate the amount of trees, landscaping, generally smaller parking lots, etc.
I won't argue the land use issue of parking lots but I do like to be able to park away from people who cannot seem to keep their car doors under control.
Quote from: Red Arrow on July 23, 2022, 11:45:43 PM
If you want to see Memorial south of the Creek Tpk, now (11:30 PM Sat) would be the time to do it. Google traffic doesn't show any delays.
;D
I get an allergic reaction when I think about going out there. I was at my class reunion at the Hard Rock over the weekend (didn't stay there, I hate casinos) and I was really impressed with the fact that someone managed to place five traffic lights in less than a half mile between Admiral & 193rd and the entrance to the casino. A redesign of the off ramps from I-44 could have saved some of those.
Quote from: patric on July 24, 2022, 10:51:22 AM
Our Achilles heel here is that any tribal member can buy a prime sliver of midtown real estate, put it in federal trust, and then lease the land to a billboard company who can put up whatever they want.
I have an Indian casino about a mile from my house and it lights the sky every night.
QuoteMost of the LED early-adopters (Boston, for example) installed early versions of LEDs that were very heavy in the blue spectrum, and people got up in arms having that outside their bedroom windows. Any savings those cities realized were subsequently wiped out when they had to go back and replace the DOE-recommended lights with newer lights that had warmer colors.
Where Tulsa stands now is that PSO is putting in the bluer lights and ignoring the lessons learned elsewhere, but hey, its only tax dollars.
As use of LED street lights grows, so do concerns over 'blue light'
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/regionals/south/2016/10/21/use-led-streetlights-grows-concerns-over-blue-light/KHONmxG20h6CcRRlslbsiM/story.html
The American Medical Association released a statement urging communities not to install bright LEDs with high levels of blue light, warning of effects such as reduced sleep time, low-quality sleep, and even obesity.
The statement also contained words of caution for drivers.
"Discomfort and disability from intense, blue-rich LED lighting can decrease visual acuity and safety," it said, "resulting in concerns and creating a road hazard."
This is so incredibly easy to fix, yet we dont.
I guess, in the grand scheme of things Phoenix and the suburbs are relatively young cities and are open to change for the better without having to be dragged kicking and screaming.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 25, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
I guess, in the grand scheme of things Phoenix and the suburbs are relatively young cities and are open to change for the better without having to be dragged kicking and screaming.
Older cities are following the rule of years of tradition, unhampered by progress.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 25, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
I have an Indian casino about a mile from my house and it lights the sky every night.
Long time ago, I could see stars almost down to the north horizon (above trees etc.). Now I'm lucky to see down to about 20ยบ above the north horizon.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 25, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
I guess, in the grand scheme of things Phoenix and the suburbs are relatively young cities and are open to change for the better without having to be dragged kicking and screaming.
In 1997 I came back to Tulsa from Tucson after spending time in a Tulsa-sized city that actually knew how to light streets at night. PSO routinely supressed any ideas of reforming our horrible streetlight system with excuses like "Do you know what that would involve?" and "how much that would cost?" etc.
Now that we are actually doing just that, we are squandering this opportunity by doing it completely wrong and we have ample evidence of that from cities across the planet.
Is there a reason we have to be so obtuse?
Quote from: patric on July 26, 2022, 08:08:09 PM
Is there a reason we have to be so obtuse?
As I said earlier.... Years of tradition unhampered by progress. So sad.
Quote from: patric on July 26, 2022, 08:08:09 PM
PSO routinely supressed any ideas of reforming our horrible streetlight system with excuses like "Do you know what that would involve?" and "how much that would cost?" etc.
Now that we are actually doing just that, we are squandering this opportunity by doing it completely wrong and we have ample evidence of that from cities across the planet.
Is there a reason we have to be so obtuse?
Red Arrow summed it up best. That's just the way Tulsa, and most of Oklahoma has been, and it doesn't matter which side of the isle leadership is on, it's always been the same.
Quote from: patric on July 26, 2022, 08:08:09 PM
Is there a reason we have to be so obtuse?
Yes. Many reasons. All related to regressive Republican policies.
Being obtuse seems to be an Oklahoma tradition. Perhaps we should change our state motto from "Labor omnia vicit" to "nos vere obtusis".