This may be an old subject, but does anyone have any information on "The American" beyond the fact that they're "surveying the area?" I know that it can take a while to plot out the details, but we have been dry for months on any information. Now, I have sent (just recently) an email to some of the top brass trying to get specific information on where they stand... but maybe someone on here has an idea. PLEASE TELL US!!!
The last thing I've heard of the project, was something I got off the website. It was the mention of their "team" coming together around September 2005.
http://theamerican.com/home/index.cfm
But news of this item has been sporadic. After the initial announcements in March and April 2004, there didn't seem like very much info until right around November 2004. Then another gap until around June 2005.
As far as I can tell, it appears that they are still working on funding. But little would surprise me about this project.
I emailed their Pulic Information person. The fact it has said "come back in september for a short survey" since the middle of last year annoys me.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I emailed their Pulic Information person.
I'm glad you ommitted the "B" and not the "L."
Here is the news I received from the operating officer of the project:
The American project has not been abandoned......in fact, our team has been working very hard to further the project. Among other things, we are currently working with OSU to finalize an economic impact study, which will be used to show people what this monument will mean economically to the community of Tulsa and State of Oklahoma. Our hopes are to have all investors on board by mid-summer, and for construction to begin shortly thereafter.
Chief Operating Officer
quote:
Originally posted by LilMikey
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I emailed their Pulic Information person.
I'm glad you ommitted the "B" and not the "L."
Whoops!
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
Here is the news I received from the operating officer of the project:
The American project has not been abandoned......in fact, our team has been working very hard to further the project. Among other things, we are currently working with OSU to finalize an economic impact study, which will be used to show people what this monument will mean economically to the community of Tulsa and State of Oklahoma. Our hopes are to have all investors on board by mid-summer, and for construction to begin shortly thereafter.
Chief Operating Officer
Seems like a carbon copy reply to an e-mail that I got last year about this time....though they were not working with OSU. I would assume that an economic study would have been a very important first step before doing anything else.
quote:
Originally posted by sportyart
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
Here is the news I received from the operating officer of the project:
The American project has not been abandoned......in fact, our team has been working very hard to further the project. Among other things, we are currently working with OSU to finalize an economic impact study, which will be used to show people what this monument will mean economically to the community of Tulsa and State of Oklahoma. Our hopes are to have all investors on board by mid-summer, and for construction to begin shortly thereafter.
Chief Operating Officer
Seems like a carbon copy reply to an e-mail that I got last year about this time....though they were not working with OSU. I would assume that an economic study would have been a very important first step before doing anything else.
Um... shouldn't this have been done
before the project was approved?
It means they are trying to find a new angle to get the project going. They don't have enough $$ so now they are either going to pitch it as "investing in tulsa" or go after public monies.
Any idea if the botanical gardens will move forward without the American? Also, how in H-E-Double-Hockey-sticks do you get to Holmes Peak? I've driven all over the Osage hills.
Public money has not been offered to my knowledge. Citizens may choose to participate by purchasing "shares" in the project.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
Any idea if the botanical gardens will move forward without the American? Also, how in H-E-Double-Hockey-sticks do you get to Holmes Peak? I've driven all over the Osage hills.
Maybe I can help you on one part of your question... Yes, the Botanical Gardens are going to move forward.. They are a public funded project.
The "American" is a private project.. They are listed as a for profit enterprise.. To my knowledge the only part of the project that will come from the City is the infrastructure for the project.. This was already going to be in place because of the Botanical Gardens..
It has been explained to me that the investment in the "American" is done in increments of $500K... This project is essentially a for profit enterprise that is selling what amounts to stock in the Corporation.. The investments made can be traded at a later date for a profit or loss as the case may be..
On a side note: It has always been curious that the Indian Nations have steered clear of placing funds behind this project. Although, they have never been vocal in opposition to the "American".. One has to wonder if this is something that they are proponents of...
I find it somewhat interesting that a University is doing a prospectus on a project that has a minimum investment price as high as this one..(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/19_2.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
Any idea if the botanical gardens will move forward without the American? Also, how in H-E-Double-Hockey-sticks do you get to Holmes Peak? I've driven all over the Osage hills.
Maybe I can help you on one part of your question... Yes, the Botanical Gardens are going to move forward.. They are a public funded project.
The "American" is a private project.. They are listed as a for profit enterprise.. To my knowledge the only part of the project that will come from the City is the infrastructure for the project.. This was already going to be in place because of the Botanical Gardens..
It has been explained to me that the investment in the "American" is done in increments of $500K... This project is essentially a for profit enterprise that is selling what amounts to stock in the Corporation.. The investments made can be traded at a later date for a profit or loss as the case may be..
On a side note: It has always been curious that the Indian Nations have steered clear of placing funds behind this project. Although, they have never been vocal in opposition to the "American".. One has to wonder if this is something that they are proponents of...
I find it somewhat interesting that a University is doing a prospectus on a project that has a minimum investment price as high as this one..
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/19_2.jpg)
Well, the tribes are likely going to follow the lead of the Osages, since this is going to be built in the Osage Nation. And the Osages are not likely to come out against the project no matter what with Gray being Osage himself, even if not a lot, and especially since he is a cousin of the chief. But, I have not heard of the Osage Nation investing any money in this.
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
Any idea if the botanical gardens will move forward without the American? Also, how in H-E-Double-Hockey-sticks do you get to Holmes Peak? I've driven all over the Osage hills.
Maybe I can help you on one part of your question... Yes, the Botanical Gardens are going to move forward.. They are a public funded project.
The "American" is a private project.. They are listed as a for profit enterprise.. To my knowledge the only part of the project that will come from the City is the infrastructure for the project.. This was already going to be in place because of the Botanical Gardens..
It has been explained to me that the investment in the "American" is done in increments of $500K... This project is essentially a for profit enterprise that is selling what amounts to stock in the Corporation.. The investments made can be traded at a later date for a profit or loss as the case may be..
On a side note: It has always been curious that the Indian Nations have steered clear of placing funds behind this project. Although, they have never been vocal in opposition to the "American".. One has to wonder if this is something that they are proponents of...
I find it somewhat interesting that a University is doing a prospectus on a project that has a minimum investment price as high as this one..
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/19_2.jpg)
Right, and because of SEC regulations, they can't break up the $500,000 shares into micro shares. If they want to have more folks putting in less amounts of funds into the project, they are going to have to scrap the current version, and start over again, and that might not set well with the folks who have currently invested into the project because then there would be more people to deal with decisions for the project. I think they are going in a good direction with the study from OSU because they never did have an economic study before. They took numbers from other "tourist attractions" such as Mount Rushmore and the Arch in St. Louis and tried to pass that off on the number of people that would flood into Tulsa to see a half naked Native American.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
Also, how in H-E-Double-Hockey-sticks do you get to Holmes Peak? I've driven all over the Osage hills.
The easiest way to find Holmes Peak, is;
Take LL Tisdale north to Apache. And follow the directions to the "Post Oak Lodge" given below.
http://www.postoaklodge.com/directions.htm
Go directly to the Post Oak Lodge. As you are approaching the lodge itself, on your right, you will see "Holmes Peak", and the future site of the Botannical Gardens.
Post Oak Lodge
5323 West 31st Street North
Tulsa, OK 74127
And you'll get to see some views of downtown Tulsa, that you probably didn't know existed. [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
Any idea if the botanical gardens will move forward without the American? Also, how in H-E-Double-Hockey-sticks do you get to Holmes Peak? I've driven all over the Osage hills.
(http://www.law.utulsa.edu/users/larrycurtis/holmes.jpg)
http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&id=97419
2010 they say.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelC
http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&id=97419
2010 they say.
"They say one survey in Texas indicated one third of the people in Dallas would be willing to make a special trip to Tulsa to see it, if it's built."
Really.....Let's stop and reflect on this statement.
Yes, I laughed when I heard that statement on the news...
quote:
Originally posted by sportyart
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelC
http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&id=97419
2010 they say.
"They say one survey in Texas indicated one third of the people in Dallas would be willing to make a special trip to Tulsa to see it, if it's built."
Really.....Let's stop and reflect on this statement.
One third of Dallas will be coming here in 2010 [:O]????? OMG, can we build a wall or something in time?
quote:
Yes, I laughed when I heard that statement on the news...
Is that funny?
quote:
Originally posted by Cubs
quote:
Yes, I laughed when I heard that statement on the news...
Is that funny?
That 1/3 of the people in Dallas would come here just to see the really big Indian? It's so untrue it's funny.
Actually since it seems to me that 1/3 of dallas is probably made up of people who have left Tulsa to move there it may not be that suprising lol. I know almost ALL of my friends have moved there and they do make the occasional trip home to see us poor saps that are still stuck here. [:P]
Truthfully, I wouldn't be suprised if this never happens.
Me, too, unfortunately.
But then again, Mount Rushmore took a lot longer to build than anticipated. With a project so big, having the big Indian up by the centennial in retrospect seemed overly optimistic.
Frankly, I'm a lot more excited about the Botanical Gardens that will be built near there in the next few years.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Actually since it seems to me that 1/3 of dallas is probably made up of people who have left Tulsa to move there it may not be that suprising lol. I know almost ALL of my friends have moved there and they do make the occasional trip home to see us poor saps that are still stuck here. [:P]
Poor saps? I don't know anyone that has lived in Dallas, from Tulsa or not, that liked that city.
Amen!!!
Recent survies have said that 92% of all survey statistics are made up.
I can see the actual question:
If a major national monument was built within 500 miles of home, would you consider it likely that you and/or your family visit it at least once in your lifetime (yes/no).
Vague enough for 1/3 of the people to vote yes on. What makes me think they did this as a mall survey.
If Tulsans want to invest in something like the 'American' (i.e. an iconic emblem for the city) I would much prefer it to be something more along the lines of these things:
Spinnaker Tower - Portmouth, UK
(http://www.klif.demon.co.uk/pomp/images/tower.jpg)
London Eye
(http://www.birkbinnard.com/europeweb/images/London%20Eye.jpg)
Gateway Arch, St. Louis
(http://www.vanzelm.com/images/market_hist_arch_big.jpg)
Something that is modern and more cutting-edge is what I am getting at; perhaps something that is reminiscent of a tree. It could be called the "Millennium Oak" after the Creek Council Oak Tree.
A lot of Artist would agree with you.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Actually since it seems to me that 1/3 of dallas is probably made up of people who have left Tulsa to move there it may not be that suprising lol. I know almost ALL of my friends have moved there and they do make the occasional trip home to see us poor saps that are still stuck here. [:P]
Poor saps? I don't know anyone that has lived in Dallas, from Tulsa or not, that liked that city.
I can send you a list if you like. [:P] BTW I was hoping people could tell I was being sarcastic.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
Also, how in H-E-Double-Hockey-sticks do you get to Holmes Peak? I've driven all over the Osage hills.
Take the Tisdale/Gilcrease north from downtown.
Exit at Apache, turn left (west).
Apache will bend to the right, take the next left.
That's basically Holmes Peak on your left. Further ahead you'll see the turnoff to the Post Oak Lodge (formerly Williams Learning Center, formerly Our Lady of the Osage retreat, etc).
quote:
Originally posted by swake
Quote
Poor saps? I don't know anyone that has lived in Dallas, from Tulsa or not, that liked that city.
Are you stupid or just obtuse? Last time I looked Dallas had about 20 Fortune 500 corporate headquarters as opposed to Oklahoma which has what -- 5 or 6 total?
I guess someone likes it there.
quote:
Originally posted by TheCritic
quote:
Originally posted by swake
Quote
Poor saps? I don't know anyone that has lived in Dallas, from Tulsa or not, that liked that city.
Are you stupid or just obtuse? Last time I looked Dallas had about 20 Fortune 500 corporate headquarters as opposed to Oklahoma which has what -- 5 or 6 total?
I guess someone likes it there.
Davaz good to hear from you! Please stay!
quote:
Originally posted by RexBrown
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
Also, how in H-E-Double-Hockey-sticks do you get to Holmes Peak? I've driven all over the Osage hills.
Take the Tisdale/Gilcrease north from downtown.
Exit at Apache, turn left (west).
Apache will bend to the right, take the next left.
That's basically Holmes Peak on your left. Further ahead you'll see the turnoff to the Post Oak Lodge (formerly Williams Learning Center, formerly Our Lady of the Osage retreat, etc).
Thanks, I found it on Sunday. The views there are very nice. Bet you in 10 years those hills will be covered in residential.
I think that if the American is up on Holmes Peak the area needs a redo
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Actually since it seems to me that 1/3 of dallas is probably made up of people who have left Tulsa to move there it may not be that suprising lol. I know almost ALL of my friends have moved there and they do make the occasional trip home to see us poor saps that are still stuck here. [:P]
Poor saps? I don't know anyone that has lived in Dallas, from Tulsa or not, that liked that city.
AMEN to that! I live in DFW and wouldn't call anyone living in Tulsa "stuck." I'd say it's the other way around. I'm surprised at the attitude of TheArtist.
I think that a hiking trail and horse trail would be nice by "The American". Make it go up into the Osage hills and the valley that Gilcrease Museum looks down into.
Maybe a sculpture garden...and some artitectural work at the base like this: [[http://www.mypcpro.com/ww2/Normandy//Colleville%20American%20Cemetery%20Statue.jpg
Hey Tulsa!What about a statue of a 900 ft Jesus? lol, I think "The American" is a scraped project, the public relations organization is non-existent,people have tried to contact them, to no avail, not a word in the press in over a year, come on now...It was hideous anyways
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I actually talk to them on a regular basis... and the news covered them not more than two months ago. Sorry to burst your bubble. [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I actually talk to them on a regular basis... and the news covered them not more than two months ago. Sorry to burst your bubble. [:D]
Sooooooooooooo If you talk to them on a regular basis, whats the story? I have heard nothing new.
Tulsa a city of planning, planning, planning, Tulsa a city of surveys, surveys, surveys. Tulsa with studies, studies, studies. Tulsa's studies of economic impact, economic impact, economic impact. Tulsa's studies of its overloaded bureaucracy, overloaded bureaucracy, overloaded bureaucracy. Tulsa when it needs a survey goes to the closet and duplicates one on file plus adding what the people want to hear.
Tulsa is a dying city that is closed in by fast growing suburbs. "The American" is another product of dreamers with illusions of the paper green backs.
Like in the Wizard of Ozz "lets have a party". In Tulsa present it is "Lets make a survey with public money".
There is lot of studies about development in Tulsa. Time after time all the studies say this-DEVELOP THE RIVER! But it seems we do the opposite, If we are going to spend all this money on studies, why dont we put the information to use, instead of wasting money?
Isn't Kathy Taylor suggesting river development?
Btw, that is not a political plug... I'm seriously asking a question.
I haven't heard her plug it any more than lafortune and we know form the third penny that he is plugging harder than the council is.
Alright. Here is the deal: they are speaking to investors right now. I'm not sure, but I believe it is safe to assume that no one in the group wants to fall into financial trouble. It is an interesting situation that you can fall into if you're three quarters of the way through and the bank runs dry. Since they will be spending most of the next three months in talks (unless of course a big check roles their way), that means they will have to push the construction back to the middle of the summer. That's the best I can offer at this time. I may be having lunch with one of their associates at a later time, so if there is anything new, I will share it with you (as long as this person gives me the okay to speak on the matter).
A couple things, The design is off to me, The statue looks very unexpressional, just kinda standing there without conveying emotion through gesture and body language. I think that the Holmes Peak location is a risky place to put it due to being out of the way. closer to town would have been a better choice probably, but than again being out of the way might make it more appealing. As for river development, both candidates have used river development as a platform in their campaign. Taylor I think put more emphasis on it and had pretty specific ideas and concepts how to develop the river, I think Lafortune lacks in this area.On NPR Taylor talked about 10 minutes about downtown and river development,Lafortune about 1-2 minutes.
I dont endorse either candidateas of yet
Once the centennial gardens open and expand the statue site will be less "out of the way" as the gardens look like they will be quite a site.
If they are truely going into a 3 month fundraising drive, hopefully we will have a real yes/no answer in 3 months. No-one wants to lose money on the deal but no-one wants to spend money on a vapor project either. I think if they can get almost fully funded they should start and expect the reaminder to come. I imagine a lot of people with money are counting on it never being built at this point so why would they want to put cash into it. It seems only a few steps away from the ski slope and ampitheater projects of recent history.
Speaking of, if I had the cash I'd do the ampitheater project as the cost is fairly low and the benefits potentially high.
Has anyone gone to the site of Holmes Peak in the last few weeks to check out any activity?
Probably not. It's on my "to do in free time" list which is backlogged a bit.
I went to the statues website and [[http://www.theamerican.com]] and nothing new in the news section...since 2004! I think investors are pulling money out of the project.
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
I went to the statues website and [[http://www.theamerican.com]] and nothing new in the news section...since 2004! I think investors are pulling money out of the project.
That's quite a job of connecting dots there. As mentioned before they have been in the news. The current site didn't go up until fall of 2005 so I don't think it's 2 years outdated.
The American is mentioned in Today's editorial section as still raising money and still progressing.
As I said before, I spoke with one of the advisors. He mentioned that through the end of June they are going to be plugging for more money. They may have found it costs more than originally thought... they may want to have all the money before they move forward... who knows. I will speak with him again soon. He said he would be able to give me more details as they progress.
Sorry, guys. I could not meet with the advisor. Our schedules were much too complicated. I didn't even get the opportunity to head over to Holmes Peak and see if there was any activity on the hill. Someone let us know what is going on up there. [;)]
Okay.... so does anyone have any information about "The American?" It has been way too difficult to get in touch with their spokesman. He said (over two months ago) that a foundation for the statue should start rolling in the mid to late part of the summer.
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
Okay.... so does anyone have any information about "The American?" It has been way too difficult to get in touch with their spokesman. He said (over two months ago) that a foundation for the statue should start rolling in the mid to late part of the summer.
Just kind of wondering....
Would not a spot right in Tulsa have been a better choice? Like the area above the rail road yards, lookout mountain? I know there is 20 acres available up there....
quote:
Originally posted by Radio
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
Okay.... so does anyone have any information about "The American?" It has been way too difficult to get in touch with their spokesman. He said (over two months ago) that a foundation for the statue should start rolling in the mid to late part of the summer.
Just kind of wondering....
Would not a spot right in Tulsa have been a better choice? Like the area above the rail road yards, lookout mountain? I know there is 20 acres available up there....
Who wants to look out and see railyards?
Has anyone actually looked out from Homes Peak? All I saw was broken down vehicles, single-wide trailers, double-wide trailers, and trash all over the "rolling Osage Hills".
quote:
Who wants to look out and see railyards?
The view from Lookout is outstanding.
That, and the view to lookout is great from
town!
The railyards is kind of noisy up there...
It is ok on Holmes Peak, but I think if they would have decided to build it in town, more investors would have invested, which is why they arent building yet. Riverside was the perfect choice for me or even midtown somewhere. Things like tourist attractions, universities, etc. create infill.
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
It is ok on Holmes Peak, but I think if they would have decided to build it in town, more investors would have invested, which is why they arent building yet. Riverside was the perfect choice for me or even midtown somewhere. Things like tourist attractions, universities, etc. create infill.
Yeah their would have been nothing better than a stroll down Riverside and looking upward to a sunset blocked by the Indians pouch or armpit...
Near Downtown would have definitely brought in the movie making crowd...for a redo of "Godzilla"......
I never thought of it that way, Rico. What about a smaller statue with several statues in a garden in midtown Tulsa or Riverside
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
I never thought of it that way, Rico. What about a smaller statue with several statues in a garden in midtown Tulsa or Riverside
Great Idea............. However that would change the business plan of Mr Gray and Co.
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx.quote:
It is ok on Holmes Peak, but I think if they would have decided to build it in town, more investors would have invested, which is why they arent building yet.
The reason they have yet to build is the $500K price tag on a share of stock in the venture....
Makes you kinda wonder what this statue is going to be made of doesn't it...?
That's Right... Just when you thought Berkshire was high priced along comes Mr Gray and Company and makes Warren Buffet look like a pauper......
Many alternate locations like those listed above were nixed due to geological reasons. Big indian need good footing.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Many alternate locations like those listed above were nixed due to geological reasons. Big indian need good footing.
Big tower need good footing too. They are
already up there.
Bad road to the 20 acres for sale however, but
that just takes a dozer and time to fix.
I do love that site, it has a great view of
downtown.
I think a sculpture/statue garden in midtown Tulsa would be awesome, with or without "The American" ever being built.
I was told that there was a news report on channel 2 Thursday night, but I can't find it on their website, did any one else see it?
quote:
Originally posted by sportyart
I was told that there was a news report on channel 2 Thursday night, but I can't find it on their website, did any one else see it?
Crap! I emailed Natalie Sentz at KJRH about it a week or so ago hoping she could find something out. She seems to be a bulldog of a reporter and as a bonus is easy on the eyes. Don't tell me I missed the story!! I was out of town Tuesday thru today and didn't get to see the local news.
quote:
Originally posted by sportyart
I was told that there was a news report on channel 2 Thursday night, but I can't find it on their website, did any one else see it?
I saw the story. They said that the project is full speed ahead-should begin construction in Jan 2007 and be completed in 2009. They claim they still need to raise an additional $20 million, but are confident that they will be able to do so.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by sportyart
I was told that there was a news report on channel 2 Thursday night, but I can't find it on their website, did any one else see it?
Crap! I emailed Natalie Sentz at KJRH about it a week or so ago hoping she could find something out. She seems to be a bulldog of a reporter and as a bonus is easy on the eyes. Don't tell me I missed the story!! I was out of town Tuesday thru today and didn't get to see the local news.
Natalie Portm.....er I mean Natalie Sentz didn't do the story, Krazy Kathy chaser McIntyre did.
Well that sucks! I like Natalie as a reporter, thats why out of all of them I emailed her. She always seems to do a good job. Disappointing that they gave the story to someone else.
I dont get it, The project is full speed ahead, It has been delayed once again from summer 2006 to Jan 2007, and in addition they need to raise 20 million more dollars? This project was supposed to begin in 2004. I bet it will be"delayed" again once Jan 2007 comes around. I think it will never be built.
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
I dont get it, The project is full speed ahead, It has been delayed once again from summer 2006 to Jan 2007, and in addition they need to raise 20 million more dollars? This project was supposed to begin in 2004. I bet it will be"delayed" again once Jan 2007 comes around. I think it will never be built.
I would bet on it.
Okay, that is two bets against, so I'll go "will be built."
Anyone give me 2:1 odds?
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Okay, that is two bets against, so I'll go "will be built."
Anyone give me 2:1 odds?
I'm with you, so I just lowered your winnings. :-p
I hate to be negative, and of course I am no art critic, but I kind of wonder if the problem with the American is, well, the statue is not that good. I mean, IMO, it kind of looks like a Hallmark/Precious Moments version of Native Americans. I love the idea of a Native American monument in Tulsa, and I plan to visit the botanical gardens with or without the American. Who knows, maybe one day it will be viewed as equivalent to the Statue of Liberty, but until then, it looks a little kitschy.
The statue does have a generic feel to it does'nt it? He's just standing there with his arm out and his knee slightly bent. The statue does lack expressive gesture.
Perhaps get rid of the eagle and have him flip us the bird. That's pretty expressive.
That thing would sure ugly up what is one of the prettiest areas in this state. If I had the money, I'd pay them NOT to build it!
As much as I would like to have an iconic sculpture or building for Tulsa to be identified with. Like the St Louis arch, statue of liberty, Space Needle, Eiffel Tower etc. I would rather have something else other than the current version of that statue. Still iffy if that statue is better than nothing though. Guess I really started wanting it when I though of OKC getting it instead of us lol. But I have to remind myself that it is going to be a bit outside Tulsa proper, and of course its not going to stop us from building something better in the city.
I do wish the design was better. Just seems to be missing something. The stance seems wrong, dont know why his one knee is up like that, did hear he may have changed it so that the foot is up on a rock, would be more believable if it were. The musculature "what muscles are tensed and relaxed for a specific pose" is wrong as well. Position of the hips and shoulder area is askew from what it should be for that pose.
Plus I keep wondering why he is looking down without any expression as an eagle is landing on his arm. I would be looking at the eagle and that arm and shoulder would be tensed more with expectation. Either that or his head should be slightly flinching away and cocked to the side away from the bird, to be giving a reason for him looking away from it. IMO it would be better with him looking up anyway. It just doesnt make any sense. There is no connection between him and the eagle. Also, why is the hand that is being held up limp like that? Wouldnt it more likely be in a fist? Even the eagle which is such a magnificent animal is lacking in force and power.
Its as if the whole statue is saying, ho hum I just happen to be standing here nonchalantly lifting up my arm while a large eagle lands on it. Does anyone else other than me get that feeling? I dont get what its "saying" do any of you? Whats going on, whats the story? It doesnt even make sense just glancing at it let alone when you start thinking about it.
(http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/9093/thefalconer6dy.jpg)
(http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/5121/falconhunter73dt.jpg)
(http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/5397/falconhunter77gm.jpg)
The bird in the first photo of the statue is a falcon so its small. The eagle in the other photos is a smaller type eagle than the one that is supposedly landing on the arm of our indian statue. But the one on our indian statue seems smaller? Either that or he is a really big indian lol.
The idea of an indian statue with an eagle landing on his arm could be really great, expressive, and powerful. The eagle itself could be stunning. The version we have is a bit bland.
What do you think about a sculpture garden in midtown Tulsa? Maybe a dozen or so medium size statues related to native americans?
How about along riverside say between 61st and the highway, have a buffalo hunt. Have a group of indians on horseback chasing a large number of buffalo. Just before the highway have the group split so that as you drive you are surrounded by them with some on the left and some on the right of riverside. All larger than life and perhaps 100 buffalo.
As for midtown, perhaps it would be neat to have a historic recreation of the indians under the council oak? Could be a very meaningful and moving tribute to the history of that place.
ignore this couldnt figure out how to delete
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
How about along riverside say between 61st and the highway, have a buffalo hunt. Have a group of indians on horseback chasing a large number of buffalo. Just before the highway have the group split so that as you drive you are surrounded by them with some on the left and some on the right of riverside. All larger than life and perhaps 100 buffalo.
No dude! This is cool. You guys are too nice. Gray's sculpture sucks. Why doesn't someone just say it out loud? Take two shots of tequila and its all so clear...
I think that buffalo idea is great! It couldnt be in midtown because of space, But yea council oak would be a great location for sculpture garden, also Woodward park would fit in great too.I also have to agree with you Waterboy on the "Theamerican", it lacks expression, It needs more body language.
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
I think that buffalo idea is great! It couldnt be in midtown because of space, But yea council oak would be a great location for sculpture garden, also Woodward park would fit in great too.I also have to agree with you Waterboy on the "Theamerican", it lacks expression, It needs more body language.
Nooo please keep woodward more European. Its an English style park, enhance that nature of it. Dont try to make it country, western, indian. Needs more typical English appointments to it if anything.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
How about along riverside say between 61st and the highway, have a buffalo hunt. Have a group of indians on horseback chasing a large number of buffalo. Just before the highway have the group split so that as you drive you are surrounded by them with some on the left and some on the right of riverside. All larger than life and perhaps 100 buffalo.
No dude! This is cool. You guys are too nice. Gray's sculpture sucks. Why doesn't someone just say it out loud? Take two shots of tequila and its all so clear...
Maybe we should start "buildsomethingelse.com"
I'm sure for 80mil or however much he wants we could architect something cool. Giant space needly thing at the gardens? Would be a great place to watch fireworks. 700 or 800ft tall and on top of a hill to start with.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
How about along riverside say between 61st and the highway, have a buffalo hunt. Have a group of indians on horseback chasing a large number of buffalo. Just before the highway have the group split so that as you drive you are surrounded by them with some on the left and some on the right of riverside. All larger than life and perhaps 100 buffalo.
No dude! This is cool. You guys are too nice. Gray's sculpture sucks. Why doesn't someone just say it out loud? Take two shots of tequila and its all so clear...
Maybe we should start "buildsomethingelse.com"
I'm sure for 80mil or however much he wants we could architect something cool. Giant space needly thing at the gardens? Would be a great place to watch fireworks. 700 or 800ft tall and on top of a hill to start with.
Great idea! Really, for 80 million, we could get some great art. Maybe something a bit more abstract, less represenational.
I, of course, would still like to try to get the Goddess of Oil statue built somewhere especially near or in downtown. Still havent been able to find any place that will take it.
(http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/3571/bwsidewflare2xy.jpg)
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4338/downtowntulsastatue4kt.jpg)
Do you think some people would have a problme with the nudity?
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
I think that buffalo idea is great! It couldnt be in midtown because of space, But yea council oak would be a great location for sculpture garden, also Woodward park would fit in great too.I also have to agree with you Waterboy on the "Theamerican", it lacks expression, It needs more body language.
Nooo please keep woodward more European. Its an English style park, enhance that nature of it. Dont try to make it country, western, indian. Needs more typical English appointments to it if anything.
Woodward Park belonged to a young indian girl, Helen Woodward and was sold to the city of Tulsa by her father without her consent. It certainly has indian pedigree.
Instead of some random face-less Indian how bout Jim Thorpe.....Sure covers alot more bases than the former not to mention the fact it would be a great tribute to the greatest athlete of the time....Oklahoman..Native American...Olympian (although his medals were stripped on a technicality).....
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Instead of some random face-less Indian how bout Jim Thorpe.....Sure covers alot more bases than the former not to mention the fact it would be a great tribute to the greatest athlete of the time....Oklahoman..Native American...Olympian (although his medals were stripped on a technicality).....
I love Jim Thorpe's story and think a statue of him would be a good representation for Native Americans. I don't know about 20 stories of Thorpe though. My objection to Gray's piece is that it doesn't look like any of the photos and drawings of the natives that I have seen. It looks too much like a Hollywood image. Reminds me of paintings on velour.
Everyone's a critic right?
I think if we are willing to organize a group to promote a sculpture garden, we could come up with a much greater idea than "theamerican" and much much cheaper,
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
I think that buffalo idea is great! It couldnt be in midtown because of space, But yea council oak would be a great location for sculpture garden, also Woodward park would fit in great too.I also have to agree with you Waterboy on the "Theamerican", it lacks expression, It needs more body language.
Nooo please keep woodward more European. Its an English style park, enhance that nature of it. Dont try to make it country, western, indian. Needs more typical English appointments to it if anything.
Woodward Park belonged to a young indian girl, Helen Woodward and was sold to the city of Tulsa by her father without her consent. It certainly has indian pedigree.
My bad. Didnt know that history. A statue of that indian girl in woodward park would be quite fitting. Course if she didnt want to sell it to the city, I wonder what she would have done with it? Perhaps it wouldnt be a park at all today if her father hadnt sold it to the city? Course one can start to get too many bronze sculptures in one area, it can start to look cluttery. There are several in woodward. One in the Linnaeus garden. The indian princesses going in at the Historic Society. I still am of the mind that at Woodward or behind the rose garden, something architectural should go in.
As for a sculpture garden in mid-town. Where would you put one? Perhaps the new centennial park or the one thats going to be built later in the Pearl District would be nice options.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Okay, that is two bets against, so I'll go "will be built."
Anyone give me 2:1 odds?
sgrizzle I think you just unknowingly highlighted the largest concern about this project........
Why no donations from the Tribes......? They are making money hand over fist in Casinos...
Now maybe I am wrong... Maybe they have given money without making it public..
If certain Tribal leaders were that jazzed about this statue... It would be going up before our eyes...
All this, to me, begs the question... "Who did Mr Gray piss off...?
or maybe the Tribes just think the idea and the Statue stink...
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Okay, that is two bets against, so I'll go "will be built."
Anyone give me 2:1 odds?
sgrizzle I think you just unknowingly highlighted the largest concern about this project........
Why no donations from the Tribes......? They are making money hand over fist in Casinos...
Now maybe I am wrong... Maybe they have given money without making it public..
If certain Tribal leaders were that jazzed about this statue... It would be going up before our eyes...
All this, to me, begs the question... "Who did Mr Gray piss off...?
or maybe the Tribes just think the idea and the Statue stink...
I think the tribes want to honr their heritage without dwelling in it or keeping the old stereotypes going...
Of course, the tribes are no further along with the museum on turkey mountain either...
I bet some tribes have put money into the statue, I just think as a business venture it is not feasible,yes maybe if the statue was designed differently, it might be worthwhile, But the artist is the artist and I cant make him change his statue. Woodward park-I think that this is the best place for a sculpture garden, nothing big, just an 1/2 acre chunk would be adequete.
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
I bet some tribes have put money into the statue, I just think as a business venture it is not feasible,yes maybe if the statue was designed differently, it might be worthwhile, But the artist is the artist and I cant make him change his statue. Woodward park-I think that this is the best place for a sculpture garden, nothing big, just an 1/2 acre chunk would be adequete.
Robby, I will attempt to explain this again... The
very minimum amount of money anyone can invest is $500K........
This is set up just like buying a share of stock... priced at 500K a share...
Many on this Forum tried to donate money early on....
No Can Do.....! Not unless you have half a mil...The guidelines for the
venture are filed with the SEC and must, By Law, be adhered to...
I think that if any of the Tribes had "bought in..."
PJ Lasseck... or others would be all over it..
500,000? thats it? With 20 million more to go and 20 million (I guess) already invested. The statue will probably begin in 2010. Full speed ahead? I think not.
quote:
No dude! This is cool. You guys are too nice. Gray's sculpture sucks. Why doesn't someone just say it out loud? Take two shots of tequila and its all so clear...
YES! Thank You Waterboy! It royally sucks!
And why, oh why, must Tulsa (and the rest of Okla. for that matter) always be identified with the same old cliches: Cowboys. Indians. Tornadoes. College Football. Let's move on and into the 21st century.
If we're to build an amazingly monolithic thing like this, why can't it be something that's actually.... "cool"? A big Indian standing on a hill: Not cool. It's tacky and cliche. We already got the big driller at Expo Square. He's enough.
I'm an Indian (Chickasaw) and personally I'd be embarrased by the "American." Tacky. Ugly. Awful. Horrible. I can't say enough bad things. (But I'll go ahead and stop for now.)
How about a compromise. A 700ft icon like the space needle that is very 21st centruty and unique. In front of it, a 7ft version of the american.
I guess that since "TheAmerican" is a for profit venture, It would be stupid to donate money for it, that would be like giving money to walmart. The statue will never get off the ground, investor are not sure of the "profits"
Sell sponsorships.
The waist-level observation deck could be brought to you byt Fruit of the loom, He could wear a rolex like most other hollywood indians that look like him. Also, just like the hollywood indians, make him out of white concrete and paint him bronze to save money.
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
I guess that since "TheAmerican" is a for profit venture, It would be stupid to donate money for it, that would be like giving money to walmart. The statue will never get off the ground, investor are not sure of the "profits"
I will say this.. I believe it was Carlton Place that brought the SEC filing thing to light...
When I first realized that it was true I expected Eliot Spitzer to come to Tulsa...
If I owned one share of this I would be looking for a buyer.......any buyer.......
But maybe I am wrong... after the Pigeons have done their part in decorating... and the patina begins to set in maybe they will take that "Godess of Oil" thing Artist carries around and make a Tulsa version of "King Kong Meets Fay Raye"[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
Johnboy976
QuoteUhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I actually talk to them on a regular basis... and the news covered them not more than two months ago.
Johnboy976
QuoteOkay.... so does anyone have any information about "The American?" It has been way too difficult to get in touch with their spokesman. He said (over two months ago) that a foundation for the statue should start rolling in the mid to late part of the summer.
So whats up now? The PR people are unwilling to talk to the public? I guess it is useless to garner public support for a project that has failed before it has started.I sent an email to the coordinators stating I was an investor and I got a reply the next day! The swiftness in response to my "investor" email and the PR emails being unresponded shows that the statue definitely needs money if it will be built,(I hope that it is not built)I think think the largest statue in the world needs to have a better design, and I am sure that is one main reason the statue is not being invested in.
Keys a little sticky there, Robby?
I still favor plucking the Golden Driller and plopping him on the top of that hill up North.
quote:
Okay.... so does anyone have any information about "The American?" It has been way too difficult to get in touch with their spokesman. He said (over two months ago) that a foundation for the statue should start rolling in the mid to late part of the summer.
Its mid-late summer now, looks like it is postponed again, does'nt bother me.
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
quote:
Okay.... so does anyone have any information about "The American?" It has been way too difficult to get in touch with their spokesman. He said (over two months ago) that a foundation for the statue should start rolling in the mid to late part of the summer.
Its mid-late summer now, looks like it is postponed again, does'nt bother me.
Forget about it.......!
Lets get back to this "Fountains all over Tulsa" deal...
Mister Gray will complete his project when it is completely passay....
Well, I'm convinced... they've abandoned the idea. Could the city consider asking the companies and individuals who raised money for the statue to allocate their money over to projects that will actually be completed (e.g. the BOK Center)?
Seems to me there was an issue with getting enough funding and a few potential backers backed out on them.
Then there wasn't anything said for a long time.
People will come to see it - that's a given. People like to see that kind of thing.
But then the hurricanes hit and nothing but that made the news for months sooooo....
Maybe they changed their mids and they are going to dump it in the middle of the river instead - make an island out of it....[}:)]
Great Success!!!
I am happy to know that I helped stop the building of the statue,I am very proud,
Robert
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
Well, I'm convinced... they've abandoned the idea. Could the city consider asking the companies and individuals who raised money for the statue to allocate their money over to projects that will actually be completed (e.g. the BOK Center)?
No one raised any money... This was/is? a for profit venture... Shares of "Stock" were sold at a price of $500K each......
Only 3 were ever sold in the Tulsa area.... At least that was the number that made the news.. Ms. Mayo and another Lady, I can't recall her name, split the three shares....
Good Luck to the purchasers..... I would call Elliot Spitzer if I had any trouble getting my money back...
LaFortuna drooled like a Saint Bernard.. When he got this fellow to take Tulsa over OKC... Maybe the big bopper can fix the situation for Mister Gray.... [}:)]
Wow, this is great news! By the time they raise 45 million dollars, the statue will cost 100 million dollars to build, High five!
I bet that most investors got their money back, so Im guessing that they are closer to 0 dollars than the 20 million dollars that they said they raised. Great success!
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
Wow, this is great news! By the time they raise 45 million dollars, the statue will cost 100 million dollars to build, High five!
I bet that most investors got their money back, so Im guessing that they are closer to 0 dollars than the 20 million dollars that they said they raised. Great success!
What is your problem with the statue?
I really hated the location.
It is seven miles outside of downtown on a beautiful natural hill.
That peak is the highest point in five counties and building a statue 21 stories high just seemed out of place.
I also thought the statue was a litle weird. The figure was looking down at an angle instead of looking at the majestic eagle landing on his arm.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
Wow, this is great news! By the time they raise 45 million dollars, the statue will cost 100 million dollars to build, High five!
I bet that most investors got their money back, so Im guessing that they are closer to 0 dollars than the 20 million dollars that they said they raised. Great success!
What is your problem with the statue?
Very amateurish design. The anatomy and stance were all wrong. When a person is in a certain position, some muscles are relaxed others tensed, move one part of the body and every other part moves however slightly in accordance. Those types of things are readily noticed by any artist worth his salt, even someone who hasn't studied like me. What was with the leg being up like that? Does anyone stand that way? And why looking down with a ho hum blank expression while a giant eagle was landing on your arm? And the limp hand held up like that as if a butterfly were about to alight on his finger, why not a fist like any falconer or eagle hunter would have? It was just so wrong in so many ways. If you have ever studied art or sculpture or even just have the slightest eye for such things. It also would have made us the laughing stock of the world art community, contemporary or classical. Figures its in Oklahoma.
I've always wondered if there's something about people who have to have the "biggest" thing around. Like all those huge statues and paintings of short little dictators. Or little men in their humongous, jacked-up pickup trucks. Or that creepy, gigantic cross out there off of I-40 out by Amarillo...
What are we compensating for?
I agree with the Artist on the "American." The only thing worse than bad art is big, bad art.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
Wow, this is great news! By the time they raise 45 million dollars, the statue will cost 100 million dollars to build, High five!
I bet that most investors got their money back, so Im guessing that they are closer to 0 dollars than the 20 million dollars that they said they raised. Great success!
What is your problem with the statue?
Very amateurish design. The anatomy and stance were all wrong. When a person is in a certain position, some muscles are relaxed others tensed, move one part of the body and every other part moves however slightly in accordance. Those types of things are readily noticed by any artist worth his salt, even someone who hasn't studied like me. What was with the leg being up like that? Does anyone stand that way? And why looking down with a ho hum blank expression while a giant eagle was landing on your arm? And the limp hand held up like that as if a butterfly were about to alight on his finger, why not a fist like any falconer or eagle hunter would have? It was just so wrong in so many ways. If you have ever studied art or sculpture or even just have the slightest eye for such things. It also would have made us the laughing stock of the world art community, contemporary or classical. Figures its in Oklahoma.
Who cares what artists think? The statue isn't intended for them. It is intended to be a tourist attaction and 99% of the people who would come see it would not give a damn about the artistic correctness, or whatever you want to call it, of the statue.
quote:
The Artist
Very amateurish design. The anatomy and stance were all wrong.
Yes! The statue lacks expression and body language, he is just standing there.If it is to be the largest statue in the world(very doubtful), it needs a better design or a better artist. A design like that is not worthy of being the largest statue in the world, it is tacky,lacks character, and the design is worthy as some backyard statue at best.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
Wow, this is great news! By the time they raise 45 million dollars, the statue will cost 100 million dollars to build, High five!
I bet that most investors got their money back, so Im guessing that they are closer to 0 dollars than the 20 million dollars that they said they raised. Great success!
What is your problem with the statue?
Very amateurish design. The anatomy and stance were all wrong. When a person is in a certain position, some muscles are relaxed others tensed, move one part of the body and every other part moves however slightly in accordance. Those types of things are readily noticed by any artist worth his salt, even someone who hasn't studied like me. What was with the leg being up like that? Does anyone stand that way? And why looking down with a ho hum blank expression while a giant eagle was landing on your arm? And the limp hand held up like that as if a butterfly were about to alight on his finger, why not a fist like any falconer or eagle hunter would have? It was just so wrong in so many ways. If you have ever studied art or sculpture or even just have the slightest eye for such things. It also would have made us the laughing stock of the world art community, contemporary or classical. Figures its in Oklahoma.
Who cares what artists think? The statue isn't intended for them. It is intended to be a tourist attaction and 99% of the people who would come see it would not give a damn about the artistic correctness, or whatever you want to call it, of the statue.
Its not just about artists. People don't go to Philbrook to see crap, they dont go to Gilcrease to see kistch, they don't admire our grand, downtown churches, and buildings because they were poorly designed and the average person wouldn't know any better, etc. etc. Could very well have been that the investors thought the statue was a bad design as well.
Instead of putting this ridiculous sculpture at our botanical gardens, why don't we group all of our most embarrassing attractions in one place? (I think this placement would also explain the guy's weird arm position.) The botanical garden has the potential to be a beautiful and magnificent attraction, so lets keep this creepy, goofy and bizarre thing down there with all the other creepy, goofy and bizarre spectacles in town.
(http://sk786.photosite.com/~photos/tn/6022577_348.ts1163089996811.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
(http://sk786.photosite.com/~photos/tn/6022577_348.ts1163089996811.jpg)
That would only work if he could pull a string and the prayer tower spin.
^I don't know about the location--someone might confuse The American with a 900' Jesus, and try and build a hospital or something.
Oh, just got this update (sounds canned)
Mr./Ms. Grizzle,
The team is happy to advise that The American Project is alive and well. Yes, we have been very quiet for a number of months while we were
completing research and addressing some design issues that we believed were necessary to ensure the success of the Project. Since August, 2005
we have completed two focus group studies, an attendance study, and an economic impact study. The results of these studies all identified the
Project as not only a sound Project, but one with great potential for Tulsa and the state. We also introduced The American to the art world
at Art Expo in New York City in March of this year. Art Expo is the largest art show in the world. With regard to design, the artist and designer of the Project, Shan Gray, completed the 3.5 ft engineering prototype in February and has begun work on what will be called the Scan Master (a 6 ft engineering prototype of The American image) which will be the final image for enlargement to the over 200 ft monument. With the completion of the 3.5 ft image and the 6 ft Scan Master, certain design issues are being addressed by the Structural engineers (i.e. fitting of the elevator shaft and stairwell inside the statue, etc.). While all of this work is very exciting and important to the Project, we realize it is not very tangible to the public. While we work on different aspects of the design, we continue to raise funds. When the funding is completed, we will have about a six-month start-up and then the public will be able to begin to see construction on the monument itself. Our goal is to have the monument and support facilities complete by January 2010.
Thank you so much for your interest in the Project. And if you have additional questions, please feel free to contact us.
Best regards,
Let's build a bunch of these guys all over town.
We could build 20 or 30 of them for the price of the Channels.
They should at least get sponsor money from the Sure Deoderant people...you know: "Raise your hand if you're Sure..."
Why is his foot up like that?
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Why is his foot up like that?
He stepped in some gum. I think he's standing on a rock/incline.
Hard to tell in that pic, but you may be right. Looks like a lame attempt to add interest and "drama" to the form. Should make the rocks larger, or make it one large rock so that it doesnt look like there is somehow just a few slivers of rocks behind that one foot suggesting an incline? If you were on an incline wouldnt both feet be on it? How is it that one foot is on an incline? I can see one foot being up on a rock. But you wouldn't purposefully or even casually stand like that with one heel up on some small rocks?
But my next question would be... Why is his wrist limp like that?
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
But my next question would be... Why is his wrist limp like that?
He's a gay native posing for the latest leather privates coverings catalog.
I think he's hitch-hiking and to get someone to give both you AND you eagle a ride you have to show a little leg. [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Why is his foot up like that?
He has a lil Captain in him...
I spoke to another one of the reps. He says that it is up and running. They have had to continually change dates due to construction issues. This guy was pretty sure they would still be in the works when he got back from Afghanistan in late 2007. It's hard to say if it is canned... unless of course they put up the statue in New York in hopes that someone there would foot the rest of the bill.
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Why is his foot up like that?
He has a lil Captain in him...
Maybe if we agree to lift his leg up a little more we could get them to sponsor it.
Inga: He vould have an enormous schwanzstucker.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: That goes without saying.
Inga: Voof.
Igor: He's going to be very popular.
This figures, no news from these guys
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Why is his foot up like that?
He has a lil Captain in him...
Quote of the week right here...
quote:
Originally posted by Rowdy
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Why is his foot up like that?
He has a lil Captain in him...
Quote of the week right here...
I could get to hell many diffrent ways on that one...heh..
This really may be an idea that has been dropped in the can.
Maybe they would get more support if they were more public. People have to actually try to get information on what is going on. Shouldnt they have a website up that talks about where they are at in the project? Seems like it might be an interesting way to raise some money too... hell, I dont know. Buy a brick or whatever.
At least keep it in the publics eye. 95% of Tulsa probably forgot all about the giant naked indian.
The American website (//%22http://theamerican.com/home/index.cfm?flash=1%22)
They haven't updated the website in a long time. If you contact them, they say The American will be finished in 2010. It would be nice if their web page included a timeline or something...
It hasnt been updated since 2004.
"See what Tulsa, Oklahoma has planned for 2007!"
This used to be such a peaceful thread... Nothing ever going on...
One could just sit and reflect on what made LaFortuna drool like a big dog... over a ten story Indian...
Why can't it just be the way it used to be...?
But while we are here... What happens to the piece of dirt "Billy Boy" said Mr Gray could have for his Masterpiece..?
[}:)]
Oh yeah, and by the way... On an ironic note: "The American" website declares that Chuck Garrison (a really nice guy, and someone I am in close contact with) was returning home September 1st, 2004 from a tour in Afghanistan. Well, as of 2006 he has again returned to Afghanistan and will not be expected back for another year from now. It kind of shows you how up-to-date the site is.
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
Oh yeah, and by the way... On an ironic note: "The American" website declares that Chuck Garrison (a really nice guy, and someone I am in close contact with) was returning home September 1st, 2004 from a tour in Afghanistan. Well, as of 2006 he has again returned to Afghanistan and will not be expected back for another year from now. It kind of shows you how up-to-date the site is.
That is a pretty sad statement about the project...IMHO
More than 350,000 pounds of bronze!
What does that metal bring per pound at Borg Compressed Steel today?
Will the Metal Vampires have every portable SawsAll available chewing off parts of this thing as soon as the sun sets?
I think a miniature version of the statue would make a lovely table lamp that would be a tasteful addition to most any bordello.
Any word on the Centennial Gardens?
Here is the website...lots happening with them...
http://www.oklahomacentennialbotanicalgarden.com/
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
Here is the website...lots happening with them...
http://www.oklahomacentennialbotanicalgarden.com/
Wasn't their a story about some land ownership problems?
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
Here is the website...lots happening with them...
http://www.oklahomacentennialbotanicalgarden.com/
Wasn't their a story about some land ownership problems?
Yeah. Part of the land was donated to the Catholic Diocese by a private owner under the provision that the land was to eventually be used for a church. The previous owner has past away since then, and the Diocese appears to be interested in a land exchange. I believe it's only about 40 acres.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
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Originally posted by recyclemichael
Here is the website...lots happening with them...
http://www.oklahomacentennialbotanicalgarden.com/
Wasn't their a story about some land ownership problems?
Yeah. Part of the land was donated to the Catholic Diocese by a private owner under the provision that the land was to eventually be used for a church. The previous owner has past away since then, and the Diocese appears to be interested in a land exchange. I believe it's only about 40 acres.
Ahh.. good. So no real problem.
It's probably just me, but that article seems to hint at a little indifference to the project.
New user, long time lurker here. I am surprised that nobody is mentioning the latest news and information on this monument. http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070425_1_A11_spanc25263
Also, that tornado tower in Kansas has been discussed since at least the eighties along with the Wizard of Oz theme park. While I imagine it would be successful just because it is located near the NASCAR track and Cabela's, it is not very attractive and the view from Liberty Memorial and the Hyatt Crown Center would be better.
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Originally posted by Ed W
I think a miniature version of the statue would make a lovely table lamp that would be a tasteful addition to most any bordello.
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
There are only so many times that I can rail about how ugly and poorly designed that statue is. I can still do plenty of that about OKC though if you like? [:D]
I just read the article myself a few minutes ago and was going to post the same thing. I'm suprised to hear the really have over 50% financially committed. At this point, if they raise the money, build it. They're building a giant neon coke bottle in arcadia, why not this?
New slogans:
Oklahoma - the obscure roadside attraction state.
Oklahoma - you can see all of our freaky stuff from your car.
I heard a news report saying that The American would attract something like 1mm visitors a year and create 1000 jobs due to the tourism.
That sounds pretty speculative since there aren't carnival rides, a roller coaster, or water park going along with it.
Hey, I hope it does create a lot of tourism, but somehow I'm thinking they used the same calculator they used to predict the windfalls from the lottery and tribal compacts.
Conan, if you are an 'analyst' who makes up researches these numbers wouldn't you want to deliver good news? You might get paid to do another study if you did. The numbers for arena's, stadiums and everything else are way too high...
I hope I'm wrong. I hope throngs of people come or at least stay and extra day in part because of the giant naked indian.
I'm glad its in Tulsa because it is something spectacular. Weather it is a spruce goose or not is yet to be seen, but look how famous that flop of a plane is! I hope things go smoothly and I'm excited to see/hear about construction starting.
Finally, something to compete with the praying hands!
There is a lot of info in the article that has a feel of double-talk....
This would be a for profit company with the smallest investment being 1/2 million...
Let me see the names of these investors that feel their 1/2 million will turn them more of a return than a money market account..
After all... Public for profit company = the public has a right to know before they invest.
I am really torn on this issue. I agree that it is not the most beautiful statue I have ever seen, but even The Statue of Liberty is recognized more for the engineering work by Eiffel than the artistic work by Bartholdi.
I think that in combination with the Botanical Gardens and Gilcrease, it may draw a decent number of people and it might even cause an increase in the attendance and awareness of Gilcrease which would be a good thing.
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Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Conan, if you are an 'analyst' who makes up researches these numbers wouldn't you want to deliver good news? You might get paid to do another study if you did. The numbers for arena's, stadiums and everything else are way too high...
I hope I'm wrong. I hope throngs of people come or at least stay and extra day in part because of the giant naked indian.
I'm glad its in Tulsa because it is something spectacular. Weather it is a spruce goose or not is yet to be seen, but look how famous that flop of a plane is! I hope things go smoothly and I'm excited to see/hear about construction starting.
Finally, something to compete with the praying hands!
You got that wrong CF, I think we've been using anal-ists to do the figuring, based on the poop that comes out in these reports. [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Weather it is a spruce goose or not is yet to be seen, but look how famous that flop of a plane is! I hope things go smoothly and I'm excited to see/hear about construction starting.
The spruce goose wasn't a flop.. or even spruce.
It sure was a flop. At enormous expense he built a plane that never went into production and only got off the ground one time. The only thing that could be considered a success is the fact that it flew - which, for an airplane, is setting the bar pretty low.
Well for a plane with the largest wingspan ever built, it was a bit of a feat.
The government cancelled the contract so it was a prototype and one that functioned. Hughes, however nuts he was, was very dilligent in making the project work despite tons of obstacles.
He had many prototypes considered flops and eccentricities in the day (flush mounted rivets, GASP!) which are very important to today's aviation.
As a mode of transportation it was a failure. It's legacy has been a pretty good financial boon though.
It did manage to find success in tourism in Long Beach. Now it's at the Evergreen Aviation museum in Oregon and still attracting visitors. I think it's helped keep the legend and mystique of Howard Hughes alive which has sold books, movies, and all kinds of stuff related to the "Amazing Mr. Hughes".
I know, I know... beating a dead horse, but are we all pretty much convinced that this project has been entirely hosed?
If it hasn't, it should be.
Well, being the rumor hater that I am I picked up the phone and called Mike Rohleder, the CFO and COO of The American project. After explaining that I am a nobody and was just curious about the status of the project for an internet forum he was very friendly...
1. The project is still moving forward and "is still targeted for the Tulsa area."
2. They are working on funding still. It is a for-profit venture and they have been disappointed on the speed of investors. Specifically, "the interest from the many high-net worth investors in the Tulsa area has been small."
3. They are working on finalizing a deal with "a final large investor and then an announcement will be made about where they go from there" (hinting that it would secure the rest of the financing).
4. They will get 100% financing commitment before breaking ground, so as not to leave Tulsa with a pair of giant bronze Indian legs.
5. To keep it a private enterprise and within the definition of a closely held company there are no plans to seek small investors (I asked because it would be interesting to buy a share for $250... just to say I did. But doing so would open them up to a whole new level of regulation).
6. When construction starts the project will take FORTY-FIVE (45!) months to finish. It would be fun to watch the progress on that one!
- - -
So there you have it. I told him I was exited to see the project move forward and hoped things would go smoothly for them. It surely would(will) be an interesting project and a feather in our hat. A collection of things to do is what makes a city a worth-while destination. Casino's, sports, giant new music venue, updated convention center, world class museums, several hoppin' bar districts... all we are missing is a giant Indian Statue.
I wonder if they asked the tribes to invest? Should have inquired I guess.
Does anyone but me think that overly enormous sculptures are usually sort of...creepy?
The Statue of Liberty is amazing and beautiful, but it's surrounded by a lot of water and skyscrapers. Mount Rushmore is beautiful, but the heads are not out of scale in the context of the surrounding mountains.
But ridiculously oversized statues usually remind me of people and places that are trying to compensate for something (evil dictators and/or towns with inferiority complexes).
Why not spend the money on a thousand amazing, creative, beautiful sculptures spread all over Tulsa...rather than one embarrassing behemoth? $40 million dollars could buy a lot of great art for the city.
It is a private project. One giant statue can draw people to look at it. Tulsa already has a trove of wonderful pubic statutes, and few take notice.
But yes, they can be creepy. But neat just the same. Americans love over sized things.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
4. They will get 100% financing commitment before breaking ground, so as not to leave Tulsa with a pair of giant bronze Indian legs.
The idea made me giggle, so I had to:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2127/2066602004_7d7a2b651f.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
Why not spend the money on a thousand amazing, creative, beautiful sculptures spread all over Tulsa...rather than one embarrassing behemoth? $40 million dollars could buy a lot of great art for the city.
I still think that ten statues that are two stories tall each would be a better draw than one statue 21 stories tall.
My list:
Golden Driller (the original)
Will Rogers (near the school)
Pistol Pete (near the school)
Mickey Mantle (near the new ballpark)
Fisherman (wading in the river)
Bingo Caller (near the casino)
Rodeo Clown (at the fairgrounds)
Lumber Jack (Woodward Park)
Peeping Tom (looking at new city hall)
Homeless Guy (north of the arena)
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Originally posted by sgrizzle
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Originally posted by cannon_fodder
4. They will get 100% financing commitment before breaking ground, so as not to leave Tulsa with a pair of giant bronze Indian legs.
The idea made me giggle, so I had to:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2127/2066602004_7d7a2b651f.jpg)
I like it! Instead of the St. Louis Arch, we could have the Tulsa Crotch.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
Why not spend the money on a thousand amazing, creative, beautiful sculptures spread all over Tulsa...rather than one embarrassing behemoth? $40 million dollars could buy a lot of great art for the city.
I still think that ten statues that are two stories tall each would be a better draw than one statue 21 stories tall.
My list:
Golden Driller (the original)
Will Rogers (near the school)
Pistol Pete (near the school)
Mickey Mantle (near the new ballpark)
Fisherman (wading in the river)
Bingo Caller (near the casino)
Rodeo Clown (at the fairgrounds)
Lumber Jack (Woodward Park)
Peeping Tom (looking at new city hall)
Homeless Guy (north of the arena)
RM, you have a great idea here, and I love your thoughts, except...
I don't see the Tulsa connection to Pistol Pete and Mickey Mantle. Don't we have some local sports hero to memorialize? Maybe just a giant frisbee golf player down by the river somewhere...? Or, since Tulsa's pretty well know for women's golf at TU, perhaps a giant Nancy Lopez swinging a golf club at Lafortune Park?
And, since Tulsa's not really a lumber town, perhaps we should replace the lumberjack with a...uh...big guy with a leaf blower...or standing on one of those professional lawn mowers.
Just got back from DC...and saw the two statues that represent Oklahoma in the Capitol Building: Will Rogers and Sequoyah. Perhaps we should have a giant Sequoyah with a quizzical look, observing the Cherokee Nation Casino?
We could also replace the Bartlett "Square" "Fountain" with a statue of a street preacher...you could drive between his legs like the dinosaur at a miniature golf course... Or we could just have some bronze sculpture of workers standing in the empty fountain...perpetually trying to make it work.
If we got off the human theme of the statues...we could really do some good stuff. Those animal statues down by the river...too small. Who notices life size when you can go two stories tall and make them attractions?
I can see tourists lined up to get their pictures taken next to the big catfish near the aquarium or the two story pony near the race track. Anybody want to play on the twenty foot squirrel at Mohawk park or the two story cockroach on 71st street?
Giant statues all over town would make us a stop on family vacations all summer long.
Nope. We've got enough animal art here to last a lifetime! No more animal bronzes! What we need is good, old-fashioned, naked human art!
Speaking of giant art and nakedness...as I mentioned, I just got back from DC where I saw the Washionton Monument up close and personal. I think it's sort of weird that America's monument to George Washington is a 555 ft tall phallus. But on the other hand, maybe that's what it takes to become "The Father of Our Country..."
I think that tall monuments change a community. That D.C. monument probably leads to sex just like Seattle has the most heroin overdoses and has a symbol of a needle stuck in it's downtown.
Let's never forget the man whose brain came up with the plan for the "American"......
(http://www.i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/MadOkie.jpg)
The State of Alabama has never been the same since the "Vulcan" statue was placed there....
(http://www.i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/IRONMAN.jpg)
Oh yes......It will do wonders for Tulsa ...
My thoughts on the "statue" can be summed up by "Swiggy" my small friend below......
(http://www.i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/Shelter_gif.gif)
That cat acted like the driver I honked at for not stopping for the ambulance. Man, that was one ticked off old lady. WAIT!!! That was my grandmom!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
It is a private project. One giant statue can draw people to look at it. Tulsa already has a trove of wonderful pubic statutes, and few take notice.
But yes, they can be creepy. But neat just the same. Americans love over sized things.
Ah, the pubic statues of Tulsa... Now THAT would be a draw [:P][:P][:P]
[}:)]
Subliminally, I want pubic statues.
Hey, RM...I just realized what was missing from your list of giant (but not embarrassingly enormous) statues: Bob Wills. He could be peeking over I-244 like "Kilroy," looking down on the Cain's Ballroom...
The American statue website is down. It hasn't worked for sometime. Apparently while on the trail to raise $35,000,000. they couldn't afford the $10. to maintain a web address. The good news, maybe the Osage Nation will pony up the cash.
Where is the money that they did raise?
Pretty sure they had money pledged, not raised. It's still in the prospective donors' pockets I would imagine.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
4. They will get 100% financing commitment before breaking ground, so as not to leave Tulsa with a pair of giant bronze Indian legs.
The idea made me giggle, so I had to:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2127/2066602004_7d7a2b651f.jpg)
"I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert...."
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Pretty sure they had money pledged, not raised. It's still in the prospective donors' pockets I would imagine.
I have that much money pledged to myself. By me.
I've got some old third hand information on this; the money was never there. I know a guy who was working the bid for the construction and if I remember right, a lot of their paperwork just didn't match up. The closest this ever got to happening was the press conference -- I guess if you want some press in this town, you call the mayor's office (at least at the time of this story) and tell them you want to do something here instead of Oklahoma City.
The quote I heard from someone who should know about "The American" is: "I think you can safely say that project's dead."
I'm not normally one of those people who want things to fail...but in this case...I'm OK with it. [:P]
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
I'm not normally one of those people who want things to fail...but in this case...I'm OK with it. [:P]
I agree 100% with that statement. The whole idea of a giant American Indian statue being a draw in and of itself didn't make sense to me. Maybe if it was tied in to the planned American Indian Cultural Center it would be better. The statue didn't really do much to promote American Indian culture or history. If I had money to donate, I would much rather donate to the cultural center.
FYI: this project is allegedly still alive:
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A27438
I still don't see this ever actually getting built. Why not just scale it down to 4-5 stories? 21 stories is way too monolithic.
At 4 or 5 stories it isn't a draw. It's just a really big statue. At 20 stories it is THE BIGGEST statue and therefor a draw and financially possible.
Or so the thinking goes . . .
Well, I guess there are people who will drive out of their way to see the World's Largest Ball of Twine.
But it's still just a ball of twine.
Quote from: PonderInc on July 09, 2009, 03:26:12 PM
Well, I guess there are people who will drive out of their way to see the World's Largest Ball of Twine.
But it's still just a ball of twine.
Yeah, but it
IS the largest...
Since this guy's going to be taller than the Statue of Liberty, and situated on a hill, AND virtually naked, we should at least finally learn the answer to a question that has puzzled us for minutes:
What DO Native Americans wear under their loincloths?
Given the viewing angle we will have of this enormous fellow high on a hilltop, it's going to put a lot of focus on his crotch and armpits. I hope he has the goods to deliver.
If the sculpture is anatomically correct, this WILL put us on the map. (And they say size doesn't matter.)
If he's not anatomically correct, we will be the city with the largest collection of enormous enuchs in America. I guess that could put us on the map, too.
Giant Ken doll, anyone?
How 'bout a giant GI Joe?
Even without the package, I think a giant GI Joe could take this dude and his falcon anyday. (What with the kung-fo grip, and all...) The giant Ken doll would enjoy the fight, too....
Quote from: PonderInc on July 09, 2009, 03:26:12 PM
Well, I guess there are people who will drive out of their way to see the World's Largest Ball of Twine.
But it's still just a ball of twine.
And people will drive to Tulsa to see the World's largest racial stereotype.
Perhaps it should be a 20-story sculpture of a really fat guy sitting in front of a slot machine smoking a cigarette.
Now THAT would be art for our times!
^Maybe a guy sitting at a desk striking the names of slave descendants off the official rolls? ;)
I don't see a downside to this project if it ever happens. I think Oklahoma should focus on its Native American history for tourism. That makes Oklahoma unique.
From what I could tell from the new renderings, it appears some minor changes have been made to the sculpture. Some improving, some perhaps not. The musculature and anatomy look to be more refined, and though I couldn't see the feet in the pic, the legs look to be positioned a bit differently,,, hopefully getting his one heel of that rock and out of that akward position. The one possible negative is that his left hand is in a position that, um, could be made fun of. Looks as though he is about to make a rather rude gesture. 8) If its done well and he does continue to make improving adjustments, I think it can be a fine new sculpture and attraction.
I for one also think it's awesome that there is a possibility clouds can form in his chest, just sounds cool.
I guess we could call him Clouds in his chest.
Tourists could wear little rain slickers, like those riding on the Maid of the Mist....
I wonder is Bob Workman is still involved with this project...anyone know? This is the man, I've been told, is responsible for the sudden collapse of BSW Architects, the failed Box Master Builders and putting hundreds out of work with no explaination, remorse or final pay. He apparently also wanted investors to come together to promote Tulsa for the upcoming Olympics...I luv Tulsa but...FAT CHANCE!
If he's still on board, my money is staying in my pocket on this one.
And for the record, if its only going to be 4-5 stories tall...hang it from the side of the Cityplex Towers like its climbing it and we'll get some real tourism going! Or better yet, on top of the Bank of Kaiser like a mad King Kong
Quote from: DowntownNow on July 14, 2009, 04:29:05 PM
If he's still on board, my money is staying in my pocket on this one.
Really? So THAT is the only reason you wouldn't give money to this?
Quote from: DowntownNow on July 14, 2009, 04:29:05 PM
I wonder is Bob Workman is still involved with this project...anyone know? This is the man, I've been told, is responsible for the sudden collapse of BSW Architects, the failed Box Master Builders and putting hundreds out of work with no explaination, remorse or final pay. He apparently also wanted investors to come together to promote Tulsa for the upcoming Olympics...I luv Tulsa but...FAT CHANCE!
If he's still on board, my money is staying in my pocket on this one.
And for the record, if its only going to be 4-5 stories tall...hang it from the side of the Cityplex Towers like its climbing it and we'll get some real tourism going! Or better yet, on top of the Bank of Kaiser like a mad King Kong
Haha. I like the mad King Kong idea...