Dallas Trumps Houston on enticing gay tourists (//%22http://www.nbc5i.com/travelgetaways/7996494/detail.html%22)
Tulsa has a decent infrastructure to support marketing itself as a gay-friendly city. So why is it that we are not competing on a national level in gay-tourism?
Quote from: TURobY on March 15, 2006, 10:34:18 AM
Dallas Trumps Houston on enticing gay tourists (http://"http://www.nbc5i.com/travelgetaways/7996494/detail.html")
Tulsa has a decent infrastructure to support marketing itself as a gay-friendly city. So why is it that we are not competing on a national level in gay-tourism?
Probably because there isn't a national kinowledge of Tulsa as a gay destination, per se. While there is a substantial gay community here, there does not seem to be a
gay ghetto, nor gay advocacy organizations to put Tulsa on the map as a gay tourism destination. About all there is, is perhaps a gay pride parade, and that's probably not exciting enough to make the news anywhere but Tulsa. Just my two cents.
Wow, this is an old post! It was one of my first posts when I joined the forum. :P
I assure you that there was a lot more to this thread (thus the 'Stay On Topic'), but alas, it appears to have been cleaned out during the archiving.
Please tell. What makes a city a gay destination?
Tulsa doesnt do a good job of marketing itself to any tourist groups imo. Can you think of anything touristy that Tulsa does a good job of marketing at? Plus I have no idea what "decent infrastructure" you are refferring to which would help our city be attractive to gays.
Plus, lets dispell the old myth that Tulsa has a large gay population. It does not. Just as we lament the loss of many of our creative class and YP types,,, the gays were the proverbial canary in the mine and flew the coup well in advance. May have had a large population of gays at one time, but we had a lot of stuff at one time lol. Check out Epodunks "gay index" rankings data for instance.
The average city would rank 100, a number larger means you have more gays, lower, means you have fewer.
Austin.......169
Houston.....150
Dallas........196
Denver.......216
Tulsa.........98
Tucson......131
Boulder......138
Santa Fe....201
St Louis.....156
Fayetteville..109
Salt Lake Cty..193
Quote from: Wilbur on May 22, 2009, 08:14:58 AM
Please tell. What makes a city a gay destination?
A city that offers a definite lifestyle. If you look at the cities on that list, the highest ranking ones are what you could call "lifestyle" cities. They also tend to have a big arts scene, are known for their creative sides, are often vibrant and active in the arts , design, and high tech fields. They have lots of activities, from skiing to hiking, biking, canoeing, mountain climbing, great shopping and dining lol. Gays tend to be environmentally conscious, and or, like cities where there is a lot of money to be made and a vibrant entrepreneurial spirit.
Quote from: TheArtist on May 22, 2009, 08:39:35 AM
Tulsa doesnt do a good job of marketing itself to any tourist groups imo.
+1
At one point in the early '80's I remember hearing that Tulsa had the largest per capita gay population in the country or second largest behind San Francisco. I have no idea where that figure came from, nor if anyone still tracks that.
Wow. I had that perception also (that Tulsa had a larger gay community). The first few months I lived in Tulsa I knew more gay couples than straight couples. I guess it's just who you know that gives you a perspective. OR, perhaps, the religious tenants of our state reflect an under reporting of sexuality (or even cause a disproportional number of people to live 'normal' lives and conform against their own interests).
The information you referenced cites to a source saying there are only 1,112 same sex couples in Tulsa. It would seem I know a disproportionate number of gay couples. Since I am heterosexual, married and have a kid, that seems somewhat unlikely. But they are the best numbers I have so lets digress.
Homosexuals are, statistically, more likely to be working in an artistic or professional field. That stereotype holds true in my personal experience in Tulsa. Fact be told, every gay couple I know in Tulsa both have professional jobs and usually no kids - thus, disposable income. Throw in the stereotype about wanting things to look neat and proper or otherwise in style (which also holds fairly true in my experience) and it is to our communities detriment to lose those members of our society.
My gay friends that have an urge to move always want to move to somewhere perceived as a gay mecca. Communities touted in gay magazines as gay friendly places to live. I assume it is no different than any other group wanting to move to a community where they feel welcomed and comfortable. And it helps if there is a larger gay community there. I have to assume our reputation as the buckle of the "bible belt" doesn't help our cause at all, nor amendments banning already illegal gay marriage in the state, or legislators stating that homosexuals are the greatest threat to America. *sigh*
Several gay couples I know in town don't want to move to new locations in Oklahoma (including in Tulsa) because they are afraid they will not be accepted in their new neighborhoods. Sad, but I guess a legitimate fear. There are enough zealots in town that would do their best to make a gay couple feel uncomfortable that I suppose it could (and does) happen.
Bah! On topic, I doubt we can change the national perception of Tulsa in short order among the gay community unless the gay community here feels more comfortable. While a "gay ghetto" (Castro) might make a good tourist destination and could attract gay residents, segregating a component of society seems an odd way to achieve those goals.
As a whole, I don't think Tulsa does a good job marketing ourselves as a tourist destination anyway.
[edit]I also want to add something about those "gay friendly places to live" lists. From the lists I have seen they simply list the most elite destinations to live in the nation. Average homes of $800,000, places that anyone would love to live. It's basically a wheres-where of rich communities. I'd want to be able to live there too![/edit]
I like the idea of marketing to gay people. Gay means happy-go-lucky, merry, right?
Quote from: TheArtist on May 22, 2009, 08:51:09 AM
A city that offers a definite lifestyle. If you look at the cities on that list, the highest ranking ones are what you could call "lifestyle" cities. They also tend to have a big arts scene, are known for their creative sides, are often vibrant and active in the arts , design, and high tech fields. They have lots of activities, from skiing to hiking, biking, canoeing, mountain climbing, great shopping and dining lol. Gays tend to be environmentally conscious, and or, like cities where there is a lot of money to be made and a vibrant entrepreneurial spirit.
WOW! Lets try not to stereotype, since most everybody likes these things.
By gay, I assume we are talking non-heterosexual. What makes a city a non-heterosexual destination? What specific to the gay lifestyle is attractive in one city and not another?
I don't know about the epodunk stats, but, most stats that I have seen on the number of gay people in a metro use a pretty bogus reasoning for finding the size of the gay community.
They use census numbers counting the number of household that contain cohabitating people of the same sex as an index. There's no tracking of sexual orientation or relationship status within the household. They do not factor in the cost of housing which will drive up this metric in high cost areas due to the increased financial need of people to share a residence regardless of sexual orientation or relationship status and would tend to drive down the same number in low cost areas like Tulsa where there is little need to share residences for purely money related reasons.
As a young, homosexual, professional living in Tulsa for the past 10 years, I have to say I feel that we have a decent size communtiy for the size of this city. My partner of 10 years and I feel extremely comfortable and accepted in and around our part of town (midtown). In fact, I am honestly more comfortable here than many "gay-friendly" locations including San Francisco. I thoroughly enjoy the mix of our laid back culture, mixed with what some would consider "gay".
The one aspect of my life in Tulsa that I wish was better is employment. Not only do I wish there were more professional jobs available, but I also wish that I could be more comfortable at work. While my company includes homosexuality in its discrimination policy, it is best to follow the "don't ask don't tell policy". Conservatives continue to dominate upper management.
All in all Tulsa is a good location for me and my partner. We both have good jobs, the cost of living is low, we have many wonderful friends (gay and straight alike). Life could only be better if Tulsa were more urban/dense, had a light rail system, and a greater number of quality jobs.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on May 22, 2009, 09:12:29 AM
Wow. I had that perception also (that Tulsa had a larger gay community). The first few months I lived in Tulsa I knew more gay couples than straight couples.
And you weren't worried about catching "The Gay"? (inside joke, folks)
For a city which is called the "Buckle Of The Bible Belt" and very Republican-leaning, I see Tulsa as very gay-tolerant and accepting.
Quote from: TURobY on March 15, 2006, 10:34:18 AM
Dallas Trumps Houston on enticing gay tourists (http://"http://www.nbc5i.com/travelgetaways/7996494/detail.html")
Tulsa has a decent infrastructure to support marketing itself as a gay-friendly city. So why is it that we are not competing on a national level in gay-tourism?
One question. Gay infrastructure?
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 22, 2009, 12:26:41 PM
One question. Gay infrastructure?
Gay infrastructure might imply not only a number of gay bars and nightclubs and social services (such as a gay pride community center and an AIDS-testing clinic), but also various political-advocacy organizations. The gay community in Tulsa does not appear to have the same political and cultural influence as it would in, say Los Angeles or Miami.
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 22, 2009, 12:26:41 PM
One question. Gay infrastructure?
In other words, we have the amenities to attract gays. Our BLGT nightlife is actually pretty strong (even better than some of the larger cities). Additionally, we have plenty of cultural assets, including museums, theatre, etc. Those kinds of things (while they do appeal to other demographics as well) are what I would consider our "gay infrastructure".
Okay, just wanted to clarify.
Quote from: TURobY on May 22, 2009, 01:24:46 PM
In other words, we have the amenities to attract gays. Our BLGT nightlife is actually pretty strong (even better than some of the larger cities). Additionally, we have plenty of cultural assets, including museums, theatre, etc. Those kinds of things (while they do appeal to other demographics as well) are what I would consider our "gay infrastructure".
What other larger cities would you say that our nightlife scene is as strong as or better than? Last time I was in Wichita, it almost had a comparable gay nightclub scene to ours lol. The only other city I have really been out in is Dallas, and of course we cant even begin to compare to their district, heck, Brookside and Cherry Street combined couldnt compare to their gay district.
I think we could have had a great gay district, but for some reason the gay people here do the same thing the straight people do. Everything is scattered all over the place and not centralized in order to build on that type of synergy. Majestic and 209 are near each other. But the Western/Cowboy bar is clear on the other side of town, Renegades on the opposite side of downtown, the Pride Center is off in yet another section of downtown, and the other little bars are also scattered in various places around the city. I was kind of perterbed that the Pride Center went where it did. Its one of the largest in the US due to some great financial backing from some wealthy patrons, library, game room, computer/cyber room, lounge/tv areas, studio space, offices for different organizations, meeting rooms, etc. etc. But if it had been next to 209 or Majestic, had a sidewalk cafe with it,,, right there we could have had the makings of a small, gay friendly area. I should add in Lolas and the art galleries they are gay friendly too.
On the one hand having a gay friendly district can be a plus, but on the other, as we become more "integrated" and "normalized" lol, any great neighborhood or district will do.
Contrary to our urban myth and pride, our museum offerings are actually kinda meager. (though hopefully improving thank goodness) I remember some ranking a while back of the "best places to live" type, in which things like museums, number of museums, colleges, etc. were compared. We typically had at best, half the number of museums that other comparable cities have. And we all know the situation with our colleges. Or lack there of I should say. Now I love Philbrook and its beautiful, but its a tiny museum. Gilcrease has a great collection,,, but its a very out-dated and even depressing facility stuck out in the woods. Then what do you have after that? If a city has good museums, thats a definite bonus. But they aren't the sole reason I would move to or visit. The art museum in downtown Dallas was pretty lame imo, I wouldn't bother going there twice, but do like visiting Dallas cause there are a lot of various things to see and do. Santa Fe had attractions and art galleries, but not a big art museum or theaters. Now KC has some knockout museums and Denver as well....
I would go to either of those places, partly to see those museums, but not just to see them. There has to be multiple good reasons. Multiple lackluster reasons and no urban core aint gonna hack it.
When I think of cities like Denver, Dallas or Austin,,, or Tucson and Santa Fe, I can see that there are actually different demographic tendencies present in the gay community which are similar to the same types of stereotypes one finds in the straight community. The gays in Dallas are known for being a little more "money centric" there is a lot of "Its all about money and how much you can make", flash and showing it off, wanting to have lots to see and do, hustle bustle. Austin is more artsy/funky, young and pretty boy crowd. Denver,,, check out Connexion one of the gay dating sites from Denver, talk about some fit looking people. They make the typical gay Tulsan look like fat, out of shape blobs. Look at the profiles, every other one mentions that they like to do outdoors stuff like skiing, hiking, biking, camping, etc. Tucson/Santa Fe, more laid back artsy crowd, big arts scenes, beautiful scenery, pedestrian friendly core etc..
So here again... we go right back to the same ol thing of "Whats Tulsas identity?" What our calling card, our attraction? Out of shape conservative people and sprawl, pretty quiet neighborhoods where its a great place to raise a family? Which also hearkens back to, no good urban lifestyle areas. We offer great suburban living options, but no real urban ones. Yet.
Straight or gay, we have some great potential, decent amount of this and that scattered here and there, but no big focus or identity,,, or core. Hopefully that's changing with the Brady District and its arts focus. We get a kewl, fun, funky, lively, urban area going and a lot of people, gay and straight will be attracted to it. Then the other assets we have like the river, museums, gay clubs, etc. will be icing on that cake.
Well, I can certainly agree Artist, that for whatever reason Tulsa loves to have things scattered around.
Zoo
Tulsa Air and Space
Aquarium
Gilcrease
Philbrook
Jazz Museum
Arena
Expo
Jewish Museum
Brookside
Cherry Street
Brady/Blue Dome
For whatever reason we just refuse to make an entertainment district.
This seems to hold true for the "gay scene." If Pride would have located in the Brady and another gay bar it would be the best "gay district" between Dallas and Minneapolis (I think, not claiming to be an expert). Certainly a foundation for a gay friendly urban neighborhood. All those well dressed people walking around checking out art galleries and being all gay and what now. ;)
There are bigger concerns to me than being gay friendly. It goes to city planning, the perception and reality of tolerance, and opportunities provided to all people. I really don't care if you are homo or hetero and the underlying issues here are the same. A welcoming community that provides options and opportunities to a wide range of peoples (gay, straight, immigrant, Native, educated or uneducated, whatever . . .).
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 22, 2009, 12:26:41 PM
One question. Gay infrastructure?
Well, we certainly can't seem to pay for our roads and bridges, so I would guess that our gay roads and bridges are also struggling.
Seriously though, I think for being located in Oklahoma, Tulsa is pretty hip on social issues and that includes our GLBT community. Yeah, there are some people with weirdo agendas from time to time (Bob Enyart, you still suck). But, for the most part, people have a live and let live attitude.
That said, I don't understand what would enhance Tulsa's gay tourism anymore than what would enhance it's tourism overall, other than making the city as nice as possible. And I'm not really certain tourism needs to be a priority for us at all. If people visit, great. But, I think we should be more focused on making it a comfortable community for new business development while also making sure we can provide good options for education and the less fortunate.
Then again, if one had to choose between tourism to say, the Castro District, Hotlanta, or a circuit party in say, Houston, how ya gonna lure 'em to Tulsa?
Quote from: mr.jaynes on May 23, 2009, 04:58:37 PM
Then again, if one had to choose between tourism to say, the Castro District, Hotlanta, or a circuit party in say, Houston, how ya gonna lure 'em to Tulsa?
I doooont think thats the crowd we want to attract lol.
Quote from: TheArtist on May 23, 2009, 06:04:20 PM
I doooont think thats the crowd we want to attract lol.
Hey, it's tourism......
Quote from: mr.jaynes on May 23, 2009, 04:58:37 PM
Then again, if one had to choose between tourism to say, the Castro District, Hotlanta, or a circuit party in say, Houston, how ya gonna lure 'em to Tulsa?
I consider myself somewhat fluent in gayspeak, but "circuit party"???
Dare I ask?
Quote from: Conan71 on May 26, 2009, 01:25:36 PM
I consider myself somewhat fluent in gayspeak, but "circuit party"???
Dare I ask?
It's just a party, usually held at a club or set of clubs. Honestly, it's nothing all that special.