and maybe kites?
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/images/2006/061106_A1_Polic20403_a1sticks6.jpg)
From Tulsa World (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=061106_Ne_A1_Polic20403#%22):
quote:
Police add 'Stop Sticks' to arsenal of pursuit tactics
Tulsa police will soon have stop sticks -- spiked devices used to deflate the tires of vehicles during pursuits -- in every patrol car.
Forty-four of the devices are already available for use, but on Wednesday police officials will start distributing the 434 new ones they have bought to all patrol officers, Officer Jason Willingham said.
QuoteOriginally posted by Chicken Little
and maybe kites?
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/images/2006/061106_A1_Polic20403_a1sticks6.jpg)
Beijing '08 Olympic hopeful?
Category: Rhythmic Gymnastics
Come on guys, don't you know Performance Art when you see it?
(CBS) DAVIE, Fla. - A high-speed police chase near Miami ended with the suspect vehicle losing its rear tire and slamming into a palm tree.
Witnesses say the white Jeep's lone male driver was firing shots at police. Eventually officers were able to use a tire shredding device and the chase continued through the city of Davie in Broward County, Fla.
When the flat tire shredded, the driver lost control of the Jeep and it went off the road over a curb and slammed into a palm tree. The Jeep then overturned several times - finally coming to rest on the passenger side. http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_326171056.html
(CBS4) DAVIE, FL A dramatic police chase through the streets of Davie ended with a horrible crash, caught on camera by Chopper 4, and the death of the suspect.
http://cbs4.com/video/?id=26075@wfor.dayport.com
After leaving I-95, the chase wound through residential streets in Davie with at least two exchanges of gunfire between Rosenbaum and police, said Lt. Bill Bamford, spokesman for the Davie Police Department.
At least a dozen schools - mostly elementary schools in and around Davie - were forced into lockdown during the chase.
The chase ended when Rosenbaum crashed a Jeep into a palm tree in the 3500 block of Davie Road, right across from the Institute of Public Safety, a police academy. The Jeep had a tire flattened by police spike sticks.
Bamford said Rosenbaum died after the crash, though it was unclear whether he died from the shootout, the crash or some other cause. The Broward County Medical Examiner is expected to determine a cause of death later today. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/
Between stop sticks and the "pit maneuver" cops cause more deaths in high speeds chases than the people they are chasing. I missed the memo on death being the required outcome of speeding from a cop.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
Between stop sticks and the "pit maneuver" cops cause more deaths in high speeds chases than the people they are chasing. I missed the memo on death being the required outcome of speeding from a cop.
Please cite your source(s) for this information.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
Between stop sticks and the "pit maneuver" cops cause more deaths in high speeds chases than the people they are chasing. I missed the memo on death being the required outcome of speeding from a cop.
Please cite your source(s) for this information.
http://www.pursuitwatch.org/
start reading bucko.
I would have thought all the cars already had stopstick in their vehicles, wht have to wait for the officer to get into the chase before deploying the stopsticks?
The way I look at it is, why are they running from the cops in the first place? Most normal sane people pull over when they get 'lit up' Did they just rob a bank, do a drive by or are they afraid of violating their parole for dope or no license? Sure, if the chase gets too dangerous, the cops should back off and let the helicopter follow them, while the units shadow the car being chased. Untill the powers that be let the PD put some rifle rounds through their engine block, the only way some of them guys will stop is when they crash or their wheels fall apart, then they'll try to run to get away.
If they want to be all hardcore and take the chance of running from the law, then they need to accept the consequences of their actions, be they kill somebody, crash and burns, or looses their own life.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
http://www.pursuitwatch.org/
start reading bucko.
"PursuitWatch does not support the abolition of police pursuits. PursuitWatch promotes safer pursuit policy and the elimination of unnecessary pursuits."
Mr. Phillips started pursuitwatch,org when his 20 year old daughter was killed as a result of a police pursuit. Since that time he has been quite active. The Tulsa Police department has been cited several times on the website for progressive and forward thinking involving pursuits and pursuit policy. In fact, here is an article from Capt. Travis Yates that was featured on the website regarding the PIT technique.
http://pursuitwatch.org/stories/pit.htm
The website has also posted several other articles Capt. Yates has written. There are four under the link to "reader articles".
"Stop-sticks" are mentioned in several articles as a tool to help quickly stop pursuits. There are several articles on the site that mention them.
Maybe you should read some of the articles again. Reading comprehension may not be one of your strong points.
"Bucko"
He probably doesn't have the manpower to comprehend completely. That would take another 100 or so full time Intellers.
Sorry, I thought that was the standard response to any police-related topic.
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah
He probably doesn't have the manpower to comprehend completely. That would take another 100 or so full time Intellers.
Sorry, I thought that was the standard response to any police-related topic.
He is worried about that unique vehicle of his getting damaged...You really don't see any Pacers on the road these days...So it tends to stand out and draw un-wanted attention....
Another pit-maneuver related death:
"Gabriel Soberanos-Martinez, 32, of Tucson, Ariz., was killed Tuesday afternoon when the pickup truck he was riding in crashed at the end of the chase on a county road in Wash ita County just east of Elk City, troopers said Friday.
Trooper Cody Hyde was trying to stop the truck for failing to yield to an emergency vehicle when he used a tactical maneuver, which sent the truck into a ditch where it rolled, throwing Soberanos-Martinez from the vehicle then rolling on top of him, the OHP said."
The driver of the vehicle the trooper hit is being charged with the murder. Funny, If I lost my temper at someone in my way, I'd be the one charged with road rage.
You forgot to mention that Troopers discovered approx. 180 pounds of marijuana in the truck after it crashed.
As far as the PITT maneuver is concerned, the US Supreme Court recently ruled.....
"A police officer's attempt to terminate a dangerous high-speed car chase that threatens the lives of innocent bystanders does not violate the Fourth Amendment, even when it places the fleeing motorist at risk of serious injury or death," - Scott Vs. Harris, US Supreme Court.
Furthermore, Supreme Court Judge Anthony Scalia also stated, "To adopt Stevens's position that the police knew Harris's license-plate number and could have arrested him later would create "perverse incentives," Scalia said, such as letting suspects know the best way to elude capture would be to "drive so recklessly that they put other people's lives in danger."
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
You forgot to mention that Troopers discovered approx. 180 pounds of marijuana in the truck after it crashed.
No, I didnt forget, as that was information that was discovered long after the fact and had nothing to do with the trooper's decision to use deadly force.
Finding out Tuesday that someone didnt go to church on Sunday wouldnt justify me having peed in their coffee on Monday, would it?
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
You forgot to mention that Troopers discovered approx. 180 pounds of marijuana in the truck after it crashed.
No, I didnt forget, as that was information that was discovered long after the fact and had nothing to do with the trooper's decision to use deadly force.
Finding out Tuesday that someone didnt go to church on Sunday wouldnt justify me having peed in their coffee on Monday, would it?
Now we know why he didn't stop. Everyone has a reason for running, his was just a 180 pound reason. Do you think he wishes he would have just pulled over now and took the chances in court for the marijuana instead of killing his friend?
Im sure he wishes he had given a wider berth to a touchy driver and not ended up on the receiving end of some road rage.
Patric:
1) Those statistics include in them the people being chased. Personally, if you are overtly running from the cops AND endangering the public and get killed in the process - I do not consider that a great loss. Frankly, its par for the course.
2) Ignoring that, facially it does more harm than good. HOWEVER, without the knowledge that you will be chased and more than likely caught... many, many more people would run. Why not? If they are not allowed to chase and you are in a stolen vehicle, have fake plates, or simply an unregistered vehicle you are home free.
Have you considered the consequences of not chasing? Essentially, anyone with a stolen plate will be able to do as they please so long as they endanger the public. That's not a good precedent.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Have you considered the consequences of not chasing? Essentially, anyone with a stolen plate will be able to do as they please so long as they endanger the public. That's not a good precedent.
I agree with you in that there are circumstances where it is appropriate, but minor traffic infractions or someone getting a little irritated because someone else didnt pull over far enough doesnt justify an aggressive pursuit.
High-speed pursuits, justified or not, are the vehicular equivalent of firing a gun into a crowd.
If LEO's were held to the same level of accountability that you and I are, they might apply a more responsible and prudent standard before initiating a pursuit (as they do in other communities). As it is now, it's too easy to point the finger of blame elsewhere when their decision turns to tragedy.
Lets say that someone, fearful of loosing an argument, punched another and insisted that the victim's actions were to blame for escalating a discussion into an assault. Would be pretty chicken$h|t of them, wouldnt it?
We average a high-speed pursuit a day, and there is bound to be a percentage where there werent any other options. What I have problems with is our complacency in accepting that it's standard procedure to allow traffic problems to escalate to deadly force.
I agree that it isnt warranted in all circumstances. However, most criminals will not do that analysis. All they will know is that 50+% of the time the TPD does not chase and the criminal gets away. So they will run. It may actually INCREASE chases in the long run - since currently, the generally held belief is that running just adds to your sentence.
Perhaps they could better utilize the TPD chopper and this wouldn't be an issue.
I don't remember the exact stats, but I believe Tulsa's pursuits were started by the violator because of an underlying felony in 70% of the pursuits. In other words, pursuits were started (generally because of a traffic violation) and, after the pursuit was over, it was found that another felony was involved in 70% of the cases.
Tulsa's pursuits end with a little more then 85% of the offenders being arrested.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Perhaps they could better utilize the TPD chopper and this wouldn't be an issue.
You're probably right, and I recall that the biggest selling point for Tulsa getting it's first helicopter in the first place was that it would eliminate the need for high-speed pursuits.
I suspect, however the biggest barrier to reform has more to do with mindset than mechanics.
By 1990, a slightly less optimistic Tulsa World commented on how
the helicopter was supposed to help the department reform it's deadly force policy:
"The Tulsa Police helicopter has changed the way officers pursue fleeing vehicles and made roadblocks and ramming less necessary, Robison said. The helicopter can follow fleeing suspects from above, allowing officers on the ground to stay away from dangerous high-speed chases or risky maneuvers."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=104644
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=314711