The word "Oklahoma" or "Tulsa" isn't even English
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070314/ap_on_re_us/english_only
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
The word "Oklahoma" or "Tulsa" isn't even English
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070314/ap_on_re_us/english_only
Yeah, well Arizona is a Spanish word and they recently passed English as the official language laws. I think Cherokees are total hypocrites to call anyone else racist or intolerant after the Freedmen vote. The Constitution is written in English, so is the Declaration of Independence. English is the de facto official language of the U.S.A., laws to recognize this only make sense. Get real.
At some point, we have to put our foot down and declare a common language. Many countries throughout history have been defined by little more than common language. Protests about the bill by Indian tribes is worthless.
I don't understand why the tribes are raising such a stir, it's not meant to demean them nor their language. The bi-lingual driver's license tests which are mentioned in the article aren't for English and Cherokee, they are for English and Spanish.
Tribes are separate, recognized sovereign entities. They have their own governing bodies, housing, justice systems, schools (in some cases), health care, welfare, and even industries. That's like Mexico or Guatemala dictating to us that Spanish should be an official recognized language in our country.
I mean where does it end with all this multi-lingual B.S. across the country? To please every last ethnic group, you'd have signs and forms in literally 50 or more different languages, it is ridiculous.
I've never met a Native America who doesnt speak English. I've never met one who uses their native language as their primary form of communications 0- even with tribal members. For that matter, I have met very few tribal members that can even speak their tribal language.
Having been involved with the court system I can also attest to the fact that I have NEVER seen a native in need of a translator. "DO we have someone that speaks Cherokee in the building?"
No, Spanish is all this is really directed at. While I do not want to force assimilation just for the sake of extinguishing another's culture, I do want people to be able to read road signs, understand our laws, and other basic parts of society that pretty much require English skills.
The majority shouldn't force them to learn English, but the minority shouldn't force us to put everything in Spanish for them either. Someone is going to have to give, and I dont think it should be the 95% of Americans that speak English.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
The word "Oklahoma" or "Tulsa" isn't even English
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070314/ap_on_re_us/english_only
Yeah, well Arizona is a Spanish word and they recently passed English as the official language laws. I think Cherokees are total hypocrites to call anyone else racist or intolerant after the Freedmen vote. The Constitution is written in English, so is the Declaration of Independence. English is the de facto official language of the U.S.A., laws to recognize this only make sense. Get real.
Wow! You've got to be kidding me! That's illegal.
For Arizona to do that is a direct breech of the treaty which ended the Mexican/American war.
I just read this in a new book "Billy the Kid, the Endless Ride." A very good book, BTW, and the author will be signing copies at Steve's Sundry this Saturday, I believe.
Anyway, when Arizona, New Mexico, and parts of California were handed over to the U.S. per the treaty which ended the war, the treaty also stipulated that no "English Only" laws would be passed or enforced on the Latino population.
I assume proper nouns (Tulsa, Arizona) are still allowed, as is ebonics. And whatever language Larry the Cable Guy speaks.
quote:
And whatever language Larry the Cable Guy speaks.
That would be "Moron" I believe. Its widely spoken in some parts and comes in many different dialects.
This isn't English only if you just take time to read the bill.
Some cities in the United States have always had a majority Spanish speaking population. People never consider this though.
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
The word "Oklahoma" or "Tulsa" isn't even English
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070314/ap_on_re_us/english_only
Yeah, well Arizona is a Spanish word and they recently passed English as the official language laws. I think Cherokees are total hypocrites to call anyone else racist or intolerant after the Freedmen vote. The Constitution is written in English, so is the Declaration of Independence. English is the de facto official language of the U.S.A., laws to recognize this only make sense. Get real.
Wow! You've got to be kidding me! That's illegal.
For Arizona to do that is a direct breech of the treaty which ended the Mexican/American war.
I just read this in a new book "Billy the Kid, the Endless Ride." A very good book, BTW, and the author will be signing copies at Steve's Sundry this Saturday, I believe.
Anyway, when Arizona, New Mexico, and parts of California were handed over to the U.S. per the treaty which ended the war, the treaty also stipulated that no "English Only" laws would be passed or enforced on the Latino population.
You think Mexico is really that concerned about old treaties?
Drive deep into Mexico and tell me how much reciprocity you see in bi-lingualism.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by robbyfoxxxx
The word "Oklahoma" or "Tulsa" isn't even English
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070314/ap_on_re_us/english_only
Yeah, well Arizona is a Spanish word and they recently passed English as the official language laws. I think Cherokees are total hypocrites to call anyone else racist or intolerant after the Freedmen vote. The Constitution is written in English, so is the Declaration of Independence. English is the de facto official language of the U.S.A., laws to recognize this only make sense. Get real.
Wow! You've got to be kidding me! That's illegal.
For Arizona to do that is a direct breech of the treaty which ended the Mexican/American war.
I just read this in a new book "Billy the Kid, the Endless Ride." A very good book, BTW, and the author will be signing copies at Steve's Sundry this Saturday, I believe.
Anyway, when Arizona, New Mexico, and parts of California were handed over to the U.S. per the treaty which ended the war, the treaty also stipulated that no "English Only" laws would be passed or enforced on the Latino population.
You think Mexico is really that concerned about old treaties?
Drive deep into Mexico and tell me how much reciprocity you see in bi-lingualism.
It is still breaking the law.
Do you think Mexico does anything to help curb the illegal influx of it's citizens into our country? With a lack of respect and reciprocity, why should we be concerned about an old treaty over language? I don't see the point in another sovereign nation influencing what language we treat as our native language.
Who is mainly served by having espanol on state forms and signs?
It gets my ire up because it seems it is the people who defend illegal immigrants who are worried about us "breaking the law" over renegging on a 100- something year old treaty.
When I have children, I'm going to hire a private tutor to teach them Spanish at an early age.
They will grow up in a country that is bi-lingual, and will be ahead of the game, while others are still griping and moaning about it!
Look around folks. Anyone been to a major hardware store lately? Have you seen those bi-lingual signs?
Looked in the phonebook at lawyer ads? Show me a lawyer ad that doesn't say "se habla espanol."
This IS the world we live in, and many private businesses have already responded to it. Even President Bush can speak Spanish!
We are a bi-lingual nation now, and it will continue to become more so, and 100 years from now, when 50% of our cable TV stations are in Spanish, there won't be any more Michael Delgiorno radio shows. That stuff will be looked at like simple hate speech from a bi-gone era.
100 years from now, we will all probably be dead, and 50% of the population will probably be speaking Spanish. What will matter to you, at that time, is where your soul resides.
And one more note to the "moral majority" on this issue: The official language of Heaven is probably not English!
So concludes my rant on this topic.
English only laws are laws like the ones imposed on Native Americans that made native languages illegal. Please explain which languages will be made illegal by this bill.
The state of New Mexico is officially a bilingual state.
That's because Spanish-speaking people were living there 150 years before white people showed up.
But don't worry, folks. English will continue to be the dominant language for the foreseeable future, no matter what the alarmists and xenophobes say.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
English only laws are laws like the ones imposed on Native Americans that made native languages illegal. Please explain which languages will be made illegal by this bill.
The bill doesn't make any language illegal, it just defines that English is not the de facto language, it is the legally official language for government purposes. If you read the wording in existing laws of other states, they specifically are not seeking to discriminate against anyone. What the laws are designed to do is to assure that official documents, laws, etc. do not have to be written in a plethora of languages.
I don't think anyone wants to ban a language from being spoken. But why should it be incumbent upon the majority in the country to assimilate to the language of a minority? Where do you stop with accomodating second languages?
It's not just Spanish, and it's not about xenophobia. It's about where do you stop in accomodating all different immigrants who come to this country who speak French, Russian, Italian, Swahili, Portuguese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, etc?
If you approve Spanish as an official second language, how long is it before an attorney comes up with a class action lawsuit for the civil rights of a group of Chinese or Russian immigrants to have their language officially recognized?
Plenty of other states other than Arizona have adopted laws declaring English the official language, including California and Florida.
http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/states.html#fl
If I were to move to Mexico, Russia, Vietnam, France, etc. I would have to assimilate to their culture and learn their language as my primary language outside my own house. Why should I expect as an immigrant that my host country should have to learn my language and adopt my culture officially?
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
English only laws are laws like the ones imposed on Native Americans that made native languages illegal. Please explain which languages will be made illegal by this bill.
The bill doesn't make any language illegal, it just defines that English is not the de facto language, it is the legally official language for government purposes. If you read the wording in existing laws of other states, they specifically are not seeking to discriminate against anyone. What the laws are designed to do is to assure that official documents, laws, etc. do not have to be written in a plethora of languages.
I don't think anyone wants to ban a language from being spoken. But why should it be incumbent upon the majority in the country to assimilate to the language of a minority? Where do you stop with accomodating second languages?
It's not just Spanish, and it's not about xenophobia. It's about where do you stop in accomodating all different immigrants who come to this country who speak French, Russian, Italian, Swahili, Portuguese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, etc?
If you approve Spanish as an official second language, how long is it before an attorney comes up with a class action lawsuit for the civil rights of a group of Chinese or Russian immigrants to have their language officially recognized?
Plenty of other states other than Arizona have adopted laws declaring English the official language, including California and Florida.
http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/states.html#fl
If I were to move to Mexico, Russia, Vietnam, France, etc. I would have to assimilate to their culture and learn their language as my primary language outside my own house. Why should I expect as an immigrant that my host country should have to learn my language and adopt my culture officially?
And how long do you think it would take you to learn (assimilate) their language? Two weeks? Months? Years?
I took two years of Spanish in high school and it actually served me fairly well when visiting France and Italy, since they are all languages with latin roots.
How long it would take to learn depends on where you move. I personally wouldn't move anywhere that I didn't already have a pretty good grasp of the language. Anyone with motivation can learn a new language. Motivation seems to be the deciding factor as to how long it takes to learn it.
I have worked with and interracted with first generation Mexican immigrants. I've found some who have embraced our language and who are quite conversant in it after being here a year, and I've found some who have been here five years or longer and still don't speak English well either via laziness or just flat indifference to our language.