http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070319_1_BR1_Democ85858&breadcrumb=Breaking%20News
Barack Obama visits Tulsa
By Staff Reports
3/19/2007 2:43 PM
Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama surprised the staff of Tulsa's Educare Center, 2511 E. Fifth Place, with a surprise visit on Monday.
Obama was in Tulsa for a private fundraiser.
"I've been a big proponent of early childhood education for some time," said Obama. "I'm extremely pleased and proud of Oklahoma for the ground-breaking work that's being done here."
Obama's campaign had kept his stop at the Educare Center so quiet only a two staff members of the staff knew he was coming.
Those two, Co-Director Carol Rowland and Associate Director of Early Childhood Education Lyn Lucas, were sworn to secrecy.
"We didn't find out until Friday, and we were told not to tell anyone," said Rowland.
Obama strolled through the center, asking questions of the staff and peeking into rooms where children were stretched out for early afternoon naps.
"Can I have a mat, too?" he said at one point.
After the private fundraiser at the home of George Kaiser, Obama was scheduled to travel on to Oklahoma City for a public rally, a fundraiser and an appearance on Larry King Live.
Kaiser knows what's up.
That's pretty cool he stopped by over there, maybe he should do it on the days I get deliveries over there. I'd love to bump into the next President.
I still think Richardson is the best candidate offered by the Democrats so far. I read in the paper he had a fundraiser in OKC over the weekend.
Maybe I'm just paying closer attention to Richardson and understand exactly what it is he stands for.
Obamania stormed through Tulsa. Senator Obama might be able to place second in Oklahoma if he continues to visit the state prior to the primary. I love the youtube Hillary video (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h3G-lMZxjo%22), BTW.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p315/TYProle/2yl69nb.jpg)
The state of education in New Mexico makes Oklahoma look ivy league. Richardson will be out of the race before the Oklahoma primary.
Inflammatory comment removed
Actually, Alan Keyes is the anti-christ...
http://www.renewamerica.us/archives/speeches/05_04_08war_on_faith.htm
quote:
The President of the United States is the supreme executive authority in America. Is that phrase used in the Constitution? We know it's true, but it's not there. But in Florida, it is. The supreme executive power shall be vested in a governor, it says.
Now, let's use our common sense here. Supreme--what does this mean? "Higher than this, there is nothing," in terms of executive power within the state of Florida. Right?
So, if the governor of the state of Florida goes into a situation and says to a county sheriff, "Get out of my way," does the county sheriff have, from any source whatsoever, constitutionally, the executive power to say "no" to the governor? I think it's pretty obvious you can't be the supreme executive power if there is somebody higher than you. That's not possible.
So, the notion that Jeb Bush did not have the power to go to Pinellas County, walk through the door, and, if he had to do it, reinsert [Terri's feeding tube] himself (and his representatives vested with his delegated authority would have had the same thing)--that is palpably absurd.
But it's more than absurd. It's dangerous.
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
Kaiser knows what's up.
That's pretty cool he stopped by over there, maybe he should do it on the days I get deliveries over there. I'd love to bump into the next President.
The next President? I didn't see the article mention that John McCain was there.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I still think Richardson is the best candidate offered by the Democrats so far. I read in the paper he had a fundraiser in OKC over the weekend.
Maybe I'm just paying closer attention to Richardson and understand exactly what it is he stands for.
Yes, Richardson is the best candidate the Dems have running at this time. I've said from the beginning that I, as a Republican, would have no problem voting for him.
Richardson is 1/2 Hispanic and has a tough view on illegal immigration and the southern borders. His economic policies have worked in NM, he's been a part of the diplomatic corps, a U.S. rep, Governor, and head of the U.S. DOE.
He's got a good pedigree for leadership, is very charismatic, but lacks the "rock star" factor that Obama has and the entitlement that Hillary feels she has for the WH.
I've given consideration to changing party affiliation prior to the primaries so I could vote for Richardson. Oklahoma GOP's I think will choose Giulliani hands-down. If it came down to Richardson vs. Giulliani, I might well vote for Richardson.
Unfortunately, I think he's being largely ignored in the media and therefore has much less voter awareness amongst the Democrats.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Richardson is 1/2 Hispanic and has a tough view on illegal immigration and the southern borders. His economic policies have worked in NM, he's been a part of the diplomatic corps, a U.S. rep, Governor, and head of the U.S. DOE.
He's got a good pedigree for leadership, is very charismatic, but lacks the "rock star" factor that Obama has and the entitlement that Hillary feels she has for the WH.
I've given consideration to changing party affiliation prior to the primaries so I could vote for Richardson. Oklahoma GOP's I think will choose Giulliani hands-down. If it came down to Richardson vs. Giulliani, I might well vote for Richardson.
Unfortunately, I think he's being largely ignored in the media and therefore has much less voter awareness amongst the Democrats.
You better check you're facts:
Richardson Speaks Against Border Fence
By JENNIFER TALHELM
The Associated Press
Wednesday, December 6, 2006; 8:46 PM
WASHINGTON -- New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson says a fence at the Mexican border authorized by Congress this fall "gets in the way" of U.S.-Mexico relations, and he wants the new Democratic Congress to reverse the legislation.
"The fence is very unpopular on the border in Texas and New Mexico, in Chihuahua," Richardson, a Democrat, said after meeting Wednesday with leaders from the Mexican state of Chihuahua. "So one of the most significant and constructive acts the U.S. Congress should take is to get rid of it."
Richardson said he will call on Congress not to build the fence during an address Thursday. He also will press lawmakers to approve a bill that secures the border and provides a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. While Congress and President Bush approved the 700-mile border fence, a widely debated bill overhauling immigration policy died in Congress this year.
Open borders and amnesty? Yeah, he's real tough on immigration, alright. The Republicans love this guy because he is a guaranteed loser. Richardson wouldn't even debate his opponent in the last Governor election, but he has what it takes to be president? What a joke.
Tulsa World 3/19/07:
He also believes the federal government has abdicated its responsibility for dealing with illegal immigration.
He said the nation needs to increase border security, add more border patrol agents and beef up the use of technology. In addition, Mexico must do more to reduce the flow of illegal immigrants to the United States. Third, the U.S. needs to punish those who knowingly hire illegal workers. Finally, the nation needs a legalization program for the 12 million who already are here, Richardson said.
"I don't know how popular that is," said Richardson, the son of a California man and Hispanic woman. "But I believe it is the right thing to do. Not amnesty. Not any kind of automatic citizenship, but a process if they speak English, if they pay back taxes, embrace American values. If they can also pass a background check and don't get ahead of those that are trying to come here legally, that they can stay in this country."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070319_1_A13_pOKLA58616&breadcrumb=government
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
Kaiser knows what's up.
That's pretty cool he stopped by over there, maybe he should do it on the days I get deliveries over there. I'd love to bump into the next President.
The next President? I didn't see the article mention that John McCain was there.
Has John McCain even made his mind up if he's running yet?
Get it, get it...
[}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I still think Richardson is the best candidate offered by the Democrats so far. I read in the paper he had a fundraiser in OKC over the weekend.
Maybe I'm just paying closer attention to Richardson and understand exactly what it is he stands for.
Yes, Richardson is the best candidate the Dems have running at this time. I've said from the beginning that I, as a Republican, would have no problem voting for him.
If Bill Richardson is your man...who else would you like on the ticket? Does Obama/Richardson impress you? Just curious on a Republican opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I still think Richardson is the best candidate offered by the Democrats so far. I read in the paper he had a fundraiser in OKC over the weekend.
Maybe I'm just paying closer attention to Richardson and understand exactly what it is he stands for.
Yes, Richardson is the best candidate the Dems have running at this time. I've said from the beginning that I, as a Republican, would have no problem voting for him.
If Bill Richardson is your man...who else would you like on the ticket? Does Obama/Richardson impress you? Just curious on a Republican opinion.
Obama/Richardson or Richardson/Obama?
From a demographic stand-point, Obama is a great candidate: young, articulate, handsome, minority. I think he could mobilize the largest bloc of black voters in history.
From an experience stand-point I don't think he's ready to be the next prez. If the Dems just want to win the White House and aren't concerned about great leadership, I think Obama is perfect. I believe the Democrats think he would be a great puppet to push their whole agenda. So far with the media attention and his fund-raising, I see him as the odds-on favorite for the Democratic nomination.
I think Hillary might be in for a big surprise in the early primaries. She's too polarizing a figure and I don't think she's willing to play second fiddle to a male candidate. It's all or nothing for her.
Honestly out of all the candidates (who are "officially" running), she has the best insight into the inner-workings of the White House. One reason I don't like her is I'm not sure she has any personal convictions. She seems to follow what the polls are showing she should believe. Being a leader means you sometimes have to buck what public opinion says to do what is right or in the best interests.
If the Dems want a good leader, Richardson is their man. Keep in mind, Richardson could mobilize a lot of the Hispanic vote. I'd be okay with Richardson/Obama or Richardson/Edwards.
FWIW, for someone who isn't planning to run in '08, Algore sure has been seeking out as much free publicity as he can with his environmental ideals.
Personal commentary removed
At the majority of Democratic events I've attended recently, where straw polls were conducted, Edwards was the clear favorite. Richardson had very little or no support. He may be on the ballot, but he'll be out of the race before the Oklahoma primary.
Personal commentary removed
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
At the majority of Democratic events I've attended recently, where straw polls were conducted, Edwards was the clear favorite. Richardson had very little or no support. He may be on the ballot, but he'll be out of the race before the Oklahoma primary.
Either Edwards is staying in the background hoping Clinton and Obama annihalate each other or the press just doesn't care much for him. Doesn't help much with the voters who don't put any more thought into their votes than what they read in the first paragraph of a news article or hear in a 30 second sound bite. For now anyhow, most of the national media has been giving 75% of the spotlight to HC & BO.
I liked Edwards as a person when he ran in '04, my opinion isn't near what it was of him now though.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
At the majority of Democratic events I've attended recently, where straw polls were conducted, Edwards was the clear favorite. Richardson had very little or no support. He may be on the ballot, but he'll be out of the race before the Oklahoma primary.
My age bracket (20-somethings and college kids) are bar none for Barack Obama, it's not even close. There is a facebook group for him with something like 320,000 members and all the others have like 5,000, etc. if that. Too bad we never show up to vote so what I just said...is pretty insignificant.
It will be a fraction of these numbers that actually get to the polls. I like Barack Obama, but I can tell the difference between hype and reality. Like I said before, if he continues to visit the state, he could pull off a strong second place finish in the primary.
All John Edwards would be doing is wasting his money at this point. It's still early. He'll get his chance...
Edwards has name recognition and people know more about his positions as the Dems' 2004 VP candidate; Barack Obama doesn't... yet.
The Obama campaign is right in
striking when the iron is hot. And also right to get it together when the sheisters over at Fox News run a blatantly erroneous story about him...
Behind the 'Madrassa Hoax'
What a bogus report on Barack Obama reveals about the media food chain.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16842036/site/newsweek/
http://thehill.com/mark-mellman/hounding-fox-news-coverage-2007-03-20.html
quote:
Instead of providing "fair and balanced" reporting, Fox has created an audience ignorant of the facts, but fully supportive of management's ideology.
An audience that decides for itself, based on "fair and balanced" coverage, ought not to reach monolithic conclusions. Yet, in our 2004 polling with Media Vote, using Nielsen diaries, we found that Fox News viewers supported George Bush over John Kerry by 88 percent to 7 percent. No demographic segment, other than Republicans, was as united in supporting Bush. Conservatives, white evangelical Christians, gun owners, and supporters of the Iraq war all gave Bush fewer votes than did regular Fox News viewers.
Obama got his hat handed to him by house rep. Bobby Rush in a democratic primary on the southside of Chicago... lost that race bigtime... And unfortunately, Obama wasn't really tested in his Illinois senate race because his opposition imploded and he got a free pass when Alan Keyes was drafted by the GOP, running one of the most bizarre, offputting campaigns ever... in the senate debates in Illinois, you could see Obama do a few double takes whenever Keyes would make yet another outrageous statement that then gives Obama an opening you could drive a truck through... 70% of the votes with Keyes at 27%... remarkable.
I watched a Chicago PBS rebroadcast of Obama's keynote to the democratic convention... I remember both me and the friend I watched it with saying... this guy needs to run for president...
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/barackobama2004dnc.htm
quote:
My parents shared not only an improbable love; they shared an abiding faith in the possibilities of this nation. They would give me an African name, Barack, or "blessed," believing that in a tolerant America, your name is no barrier to success.
They imagined me going to the best schools in the land, even though they weren't rich, because in a generous America you don't have to be rich to achieve your potential.
------------------------------------------------
For alongside our famous individualism, there's another ingredient in the American saga, a belief that we are all connected as one people.
If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child.
If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for their prescription and having to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandparent.
If there's an Arab-American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties.
It is that fundamental belief -- it is that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sisters' keeper -- that makes this country work.
It's what allows us to pursue our individual dreams, yet still come together as a single American family: "E pluribus unum," out of many, one.
------------------------------------------------
Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America; there's the United States of America.
There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America.
The pundits, the pundits like to slice and dice our country into red states and blue States: red states for Republicans, blue States for Democrats. But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the blue states, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the red states.
We coach little league in the blue states and, yes, we've got some gay friends in the red states.
There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq, and there are patriots who supported the war in Iraq.
We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.
In the end, that's what this election is about. Do we participate in a politics of cynicism, or do we participate in a politics of hope?
CNN announced that Elizabeth Edwards will hold a press conference tomorrow and she will not be delivering good news. I fear the worst. Please keep the Edwards family in your thoughts.
@ USRufnex: "I watched a Chicago PBS rebroadcast of Obama's keynote to the democratic convention... I remember both me and the friend I watched it with saying... this guy needs to run for president..."
Same thing that happened to Bill Clinton when he spoke at the '88 DNC. Hardly anyone had heard of the Arkansas Gov. before that, and he became a political rock star afterwards. Had charm and charisma out the wazoo.
@deinstein: "My age bracket (20-somethings and college kids) are bar none for Barack Obama, it's not even close. There is a facebook group for him with something like 320,000 members and all the others have like 5,000, etc. if that. Too bad we never show up to vote so what I just said...is pretty insignificant"
I was a freshman at OSU in the fall of 1984. The buzz on campus before the '84 election was all about Ronald Reagan. I think he had appeal to a lot of us as he reminded us of the kindly grandfather we all had or wish we had. Mondale, well he just seemed dull Geraldine Ferraro being on the ticket as his vice president created some interest, but not that much. Not only that, people still remembered Mondale as being associated with Jimmy Carter and that was another knock on him.
I was nowhere as politically cognizant as I am now, but there was a charisma to him that appealed to a lot of people.
He's a smoker....No way I would vote for a smoker.....
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
He's a smoker....No way I would vote for a smoker.....
Slightly O/T, but speaking of smokers, did you know that Laura Bush is a chainsmoker? I had no clue until a friend of mine who is very involved in Republican politics told me. I wish I could find a picture of it, but apparently she is very secretive. I just love the image.
quote:
Originally posted by tulsa1603
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
He's a smoker....No way I would vote for a smoker.....
Slightly O/T, but speaking of smokers, did you know that Laura Bush is a chainsmoker? I had no clue until a friend of mine who is very involved in Republican politics told me. I wish I could find a picture of it, but apparently she is very secretive. I just love the image.
While you're at it, find a picture of her in her 20's. I bet she was a total babe.
I think Obama vowed to quit smoking just before the campaign started in earnest.
Whether he did is another matter ...
I googled Laura Bush, 20's & young, no early photos but these are really whack:
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/71conan/laura_gang1a.jpg)
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/71conan/laura_gang2.jpg)
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/71conan/laura_gang3.jpg)
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/71conan/laura_gang5.jpg)
Edwards is still in.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070322/ap_on_el_pr/edwards2008_28
Not to sound callous, but sure seems like some well-timed publicity for the campaign. By announcing ahead of time there would be a press conference that involved his wife's health, and speculation he would drop out, he was certain to get a lot of attention from it. Otherwise, had they just sent out a press release saying his wife's cancer had returned, it would have been a smaller blip on the media radar screen.
That could be true, but I think Edwards comments about his wife's health and the impact it could have on his campaign prior to announcing his candidacy warranted the press conference, especially since they decided to continue the campaign.
Edwards, Obama, Hill, ANY one of these guys would be better than any (R). In fact, the Dem could be caught red-handed chain-smoking crack and I dare say would be a better choice for the Mercan people than an (R)!
Mixed feelings bout Edwards, I mean what is the hurry? Even if she is telling him to go for it, I would want to spend that time with her.
Personal commentary removed
Personal commentary removed
It is fascinating that Tulsa's richest man is supporting O. What does he know that the country club conservatives do not?
What's painfully obvious to any objective observer, neocons put the con in fiscal conservatism.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
What's painfully obvious to any objective observer, neocons put the con in fiscal conservatism.
What's painfully obvious is there is no such thing as fiscal conservatism at the national level anymore Dem or GOP.
At least the Dems didn't wrap themselves in it(fiscal conservatism), and then turn around and wipe their a** with it.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
At least the Dems didn't wrap themselves in it(fiscal conservatism), and then turn around and wipe their a** with it.
Point well taken.[:(]
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
@ USRufnex: "I watched a Chicago PBS rebroadcast of Obama's keynote to the democratic convention... I remember both me and the friend I watched it with saying... this guy needs to run for president..."
Same thing that happened to Bill Clinton when he spoke at the '88 DNC. Hardly anyone had heard of the Arkansas Gov. before that, and he became a political rock star afterwards. Had charm and charisma out the wazoo.
@deinstein: "My age bracket (20-somethings and college kids) are bar none for Barack Obama, it's not even close. There is a facebook group for him with something like 320,000 members and all the others have like 5,000, etc. if that. Too bad we never show up to vote so what I just said...is pretty insignificant"
I was a freshman at OSU in the fall of 1984. The buzz on campus before the '84 election was all about Ronald Reagan. I think he had appeal to a lot of us as he reminded us of the kindly grandfather we all had or wish we had. Mondale, well he just seemed dull Geraldine Ferraro being on the ticket as his vice president created some interest, but not that much. Not only that, people still remembered Mondale as being associated with Jimmy Carter and that was another knock on him.
I was nowhere as politically cognizant as I am now, but there was a charisma to him that appealed to a lot of people.
Hey, hey now... respect your elders... I lived the 80s as a full time student working part jobs at the mall that paid me $3.35 per hr...
--heavy breathing-- "Luke, I am your father..." I was a freshman at OCU in the fall of 1983. [:D]
Yes, I remember "the buzz on campus before the '84 election"... it was Reagan/Bush versus "Fritz & Tits"... the year after the Tulsa Roughnecks won Soccer Bowl '83 in Vancouver [:D] ...back in the day when
"101 Uses for A Dead Preppie" was required reading... and the college republicans all looked/talked like Tucker Carlson and worshipped at the altar of
Maggie Thatcher-- (ask
Si lon how much the Brits admire Thatcher's privatization "legacy")... Reagan touted a positive "it's morning in America" compared to memories of Mondale from the hostage crisis and Carter's infamous "malaise" speech...
Anyway, those were the days we were told of the "liberal media" (some things NEVER change) yet the media I was reading (The Daily Oklahoman) was decidedly conservative (just ask James R Jones) and vilified all things vaguely perceived to be
liberal (as in "pinko-commie liberal")... Mondale offered sobering tax increases to tame the federal deficit... not a very sexy idea in the land of Reaganomics... and the economy was booming after a 1982 recession...
http://cgi.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/debates/history/1984/
quote:
In referring to a 1980 debate against Carter, Mondale said, "Mr. President, you said, 'There you go again.' ... You remember the last time you said that? ... You said it when President Carter said you were going to cut Medicare, and you said, 'Oh, no, there you go again, Mr. President.' And what did you do right after the election? You went out and tried to cut $20 billion out of Medicare. And so when you say, 'There you go again,' people will remember this, you know ... And people will remember that you signed the biggest tax increase in the history of the United States ... You've got a $260 billion deficit. You can't wish it away."
-----------------------------------------------
Reagan articulated the basic themes of his campaign: that his economic reforms were working and the budget would be balanced by 1989, that he would always do what was morally right for the people regardless of political interests, that the Democratic Party had left people like him during the 1950's, that farmers, minorities and the disadvantaged would do better under his administration, that abortion was murder, and that he would never cut Social Security. Reagan went after those who doubted him in the first debate by saying, "I will never stand for a reduction of the Social Security benefits to the people who are now getting them ... We are today subsidizing housing for more than 10 million people, and we're going to continue along that line. We have preserved the safety net for the people with true need in this country ... You might find my words in a Democratic platform of some years ago -- I know because I was a Democrat at that time. And I left the party eventually, because I could no longer follow the turn in Democratic leadership that took us down a path ... lacking trust in the American people."
------------------------------------------------
Mondale said, "In Lebanon, this president exercised American power, all right, but the management of it was such that our Marines were killed, we had to leave in humiliation, the Soviet Union became stronger, terrorists became emboldened. And it was because they did not think through how power should be exercised." The president "must command" and he "must lead," Mondale said.
The prevailing wisdom among young people went a little like this:
Unions are too strong/bureaucratic, deregulation of the phone company and airlines is a good idea, social security will not be around when we retire, the federal deficit is a huge problem...
Prevailing wisdom among the tragically hip Oklahoma young republicans was: tax receipts are higher under Reagan policies than they would be under the dems, thus
Reaganomics will literally
grow the economy out of its current deficit, minimum wage hurts small businesses and we shouldn't even have one in a capitalist economy-- the economy will
grow and higher wages will trickle down... social security should be
privatized... the dems are weak on defense... and if you happen to be a one-issue church going voter, we HATE abortion while the dems support
abortion on demand...
Mondale's performance in the '84 debates made my decision difficult... but I figured if my retail wages never rose (while tuition is going through the roof), and if big cuts in my Pell Grants continue...... at least I'd be "doing my share" to tame the federal deficit (yeah, right)...
So, I voted for Reagan... I was naive. I was wrong. And Mondale was right.
As for Bill Clinton--- after I moved to Chicago in 1990 seeking fame and fortune [}:)].... I talked to a guy I was singing with who was working as a volunteer for the Clinton campaign... since much of the info I had on Clinton was provided by the Daily Oklahoman (all their "expose's" in a nutshell...
"slick willie"... "slick willie"... "Hillary wears the pants"... "slick willie"... etc, etc...) I asked him about a Clinton presidency...
His answer (circa 1991): "Bill Clinton will be the best republican president we've ever had."
On Clinton's watch:
1. Don't ask. Don't tell.
2. First Republican house and senate in over half a century.
3. Welfare reform with a five year time limit.
4. DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act)
5. Turning the federal deficit into a surplus.
USR- your posts are just too damn long to quote [;)]
Reagan inherited an economy that was in disarray, foreign policy which had been largely neglected for four years, and a huge deficit.
I will always feel that Reagan was one of the more effective presidents we ever had and I believe history will bear that out as well.
I'll never apologize for my vote in '84. Looking at the accomplishments of his second term, his spending increases were the lowest of any subsequent presidential term, except for Clinton's first term and I don't think anyone can impune his foreign policy which eventually led to the end of the cold war. Aside from that he was a great unifier and worked relatively well with a democrat-controlled congress.
Reagan was a great statesman and leader.
quote:
Originally posted by USRufnex
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
@ USRufnex: "I watched a Chicago PBS rebroadcast of Obama's keynote to the democratic convention... I remember both me and the friend I watched it with saying... this guy needs to run for president..."
Same thing that happened to Bill Clinton when he spoke at the '88 DNC. Hardly anyone had heard of the Arkansas Gov. before that, and he became a political rock star afterwards. Had charm and charisma out the wazoo.
@deinstein: "My age bracket (20-somethings and college kids) are bar none for Barack Obama, it's not even close. There is a facebook group for him with something like 320,000 members and all the others have like 5,000, etc. if that. Too bad we never show up to vote so what I just said...is pretty insignificant"
I was a freshman at OSU in the fall of 1984. The buzz on campus before the '84 election was all about Ronald Reagan. I think he had appeal to a lot of us as he reminded us of the kindly grandfather we all had or wish we had. Mondale, well he just seemed dull Geraldine Ferraro being on the ticket as his vice president created some interest, but not that much. Not only that, people still remembered Mondale as being associated with Jimmy Carter and that was another knock on him.
I was nowhere as politically cognizant as I am now, but there was a charisma to him that appealed to a lot of people.
Hey, hey now... respect your elders... I lived the 80s as a full time student working part jobs at the mall that paid me $3.35 per hr...
--heavy breathing-- "Luke, I am your father..."
I was a freshman at OCU in the fall of 1983. [:D]
Yes, I remember "the buzz on campus before the '84 election"... it was Reagan/Bush versus "Fritz & Tits"... the year after the Tulsa Roughnecks won Soccer Bowl '83 in Vancouver [:D] ...back in the day when "101 Uses for A Dead Preppie" was required reading... and the college republicans all looked/talked like Tucker Carlson and worshipped at the altar of Maggie Thatcher-- (ask Si lon how much the Brits admire Thatcher's privatization "legacy")... Reagan touted a positive "it's morning in America" compared to memories of Mondale from the hostage crisis and Carter's infamous "malaise" speech...
Anyway, those were the days we were told of the "liberal media" (some things NEVER change) yet the media I was reading (The Daily Oklahoman) was decidedly conservative (just ask James R Jones) and vilified all things vaguely perceived to be liberal (as in "pinko-commie liberal")... Mondale offered sobering tax increases to tame the federal deficit... not a very sexy idea in the land of Reaganomics... and the economy was booming after a 1982 recession...
http://cgi.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/debates/history/1984/
quote:
In referring to a 1980 debate against Carter, Mondale said, "Mr. President, you said, 'There you go again.' ... You remember the last time you said that? ... You said it when President Carter said you were going to cut Medicare, and you said, 'Oh, no, there you go again, Mr. President.' And what did you do right after the election? You went out and tried to cut $20 billion out of Medicare. And so when you say, 'There you go again,' people will remember this, you know ... And people will remember that you signed the biggest tax increase in the history of the United States ... You've got a $260 billion deficit. You can't wish it away."
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Reagan articulated the basic themes of his campaign: that his economic reforms were working and the budget would be balanced by 1989, that he would always do what was morally right for the people regardless of political interests, that the Democratic Party had left people like him during the 1950's, that farmers, minorities and the disadvantaged would do better under his administration, that abortion was murder, and that he would never cut Social Security. Reagan went after those who doubted him in the first debate by saying, "I will never stand for a reduction of the Social Security benefits to the people who are now getting them ... We are today subsidizing housing for more than 10 million people, and we're going to continue along that line. We have preserved the safety net for the people with true need in this country ... You might find my words in a Democratic platform of some years ago -- I know because I was a Democrat at that time. And I left the party eventually, because I could no longer follow the turn in Democratic leadership that took us down a path ... lacking trust in the American people."
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Mondale said, "In Lebanon, this president exercised American power, all right, but the management of it was such that our Marines were killed, we had to leave in humiliation, the Soviet Union became stronger, terrorists became emboldened. And it was because they did not think through how power should be exercised." The president "must command" and he "must lead," Mondale said.
The prevailing wisdom among young people went a little like this:
Unions are too strong/bureaucratic, deregulation of the phone company and airlines is a good idea, social security will not be around when we retire, the federal deficit is a huge problem...
Prevailing wisdom among the tragically hip Oklahoma young republicans was: tax receipts are higher under Reagan policies than they would be under the dems, thus Reaganomics will literally grow the economy out of its current deficit, minimum wage hurts small businesses and we shouldn't even have one in a capitalist economy-- the economy will grow and higher wages will trickle down... social security should be privatized... the dems are weak on defense... and if you happen to be a one-issue church going voter, we HATE abortion while the dems support abortion on demand...
Mondale's performance in the '84 debates made my decision difficult... but I figured if my retail wages never rose (while tuition is going through the roof), and if big cuts in my Pell Grants continue...... at least I'd be "doing my share" to tame the federal deficit (yeah, right)...
So, I voted for Reagan... I was naive. I was wrong. And Mondale was right.
As for Bill Clinton--- after I moved to Chicago in 1990 seeking fame and fortune [}:)].... I talked to a guy I was singing with who was working as a volunteer for the Clinton campaign... since much of the info I had on Clinton was provided by the Daily Oklahoman (all their "expose's" in a nutshell... "slick willie"... "slick willie"... "Hillary wears the pants"... "slick willie"... etc, etc...) I asked him about a Clinton presidency...
His answer (circa 1991): "Bill Clinton will be the best republican president we've ever had."
On Clinton's watch:
1. Don't ask. Don't tell.
2. First Republican house and senate in over half a century.
3. Welfare reform with a five year time limit.
4. DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act)
5. Turning the federal deficit into a surplus.
You forgot NAFTA
Rwanda genocide.
Tuesday night I saw Santa on a bike pulled over by the TPD. (33rd and Peoria) He had a sign that said "Vote Obama. Pimp America." (He also appeared to have other signs on his person) - Well, I'm not exactly a "PC" person, but I thought that sign had some very racist undertones.
Lugar-Obama "The Dynamic Duo"
"The most dynamic duo in Washington today crosses party lines. Old-school realist Richard Lugar, the five-term Republican senator from Indiana, has embraced new-school realist and rising star Barack Obama, the junior Democratic senator from Illinois ... The two agree on much and seem to genuinely like each other. Rather unusual in hyper-partisan Washington, these days."
-Washington Monthly September 2006
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
You forgot NAFTA
Hmmm... how 'bout that "giant sucking sound" of good jobs going to Mexico? (James R Jones was a supporter and ambassador to Mexico under Clinton)....
Hmmm... if all those jobs were going south of the border, why are so many of "those people" coming to the USA to work?
quote:
Originally posted by USRufnex
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
You forgot NAFTA
Hmmm... how 'bout that "giant sucking sound" of good jobs going to Mexico? (James R Jones was a supporter and ambassador to Mexico under Clinton)....
Hmmm... if all those jobs were going south of the border, why are so many of "those people" coming to the USA to work?
We get the ones who couldn't cut the mustard at the maquiladora plants. [B)]
Seriously though, we pay higher wages for service-related jobs in the states than manufacturing jobs are paying in Mexico. Studies show that the manufacturing segment in Mexico grew by over 1mm jobs from 1995 to 1999. As of 2005, studies showed there have been about 1mm jobs lost in the U.S. as a direct impact from NAFTA. Manufacturing growth for jobs in the U.S. has remained flat, but the service sector has grown. Many Mexicans coming to America wind up working in service industries. What manufacturing we have here pays far better than in Mexico, so in a way NAFTA helped pave the way for even more illegal immigration. (I can't wait to hear your flame for me on that assertion).[;)]
NAFTA has been a boon to the consumer, but not the American manufacturing workforce. Many goods we use in the home are still about the same price or even lower than they were for a comparable item 20 years ago.
While material costs have gone up, labor costs have gone down via NAFTA and U.S.-based companies setting up shop in China and India. It's been good for people who work in U.S. retail (which other than management is menial pay) but not for the manufacturing workforce.
Real wages have actually declined in Mexico under NAFTA.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Real wages have actually declined in Mexico under NAFTA.
Yup.
quote:
Originally posted by teddy jack eddy
Barack's got the charimsa of John Kennedy. He's going to be wonderful. I hope he wins the Presidency and has Hillary at his side as Vice-President.
We'll have Camelot all over again. I can't say enough good about Barack Obama.
Kennedy, the man who brought us Bay of Pigs and Viet Nam. Yep, he brought us some real laughs.
Charisma is wonderful. It takes more than charisma to make the tough decisions it takes to run the country. Do you know where he stands on the issues and anything about his actual competence to run the country?
What do you dis-like about Richardson as a Democratic candidate?
FWIW- Hillary won't play biznitch VP to anyone.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Do you know where he stands on the issues and anything about his actual competence to run the country?
What do you dis-like about Richardson as a Democratic candidate?
FLIIIIIP FLOOOOOOP!
Things about Obama I like: he says he is not taking corporate lobbyist dollars for his campaign, he wants to bring health care to all Americans, he wants to raise the minimum wage, and best of all he is not a Republican.
Good for Obama for staying away from PAC's and lobbyists. I'd like to see more of that on both sides. I'm tired of special interests running Washington.
I'm looking for one of you heavily partisan Democrats to tell me what's wrong with Richardson's leadership skills or do you guys prefer to vote for image over good leadership?
"Health care for all Americans" is political hyperbole, it's available for those who need it. No matter how much you throw at health care, publicly-funded health care will never look like privately-funded. Just like education. The government never does anything as well or efficient as the private sector.
There would be a lot more options available for U.S. citizens if Washington would quit courting illegal aliens.
Care to explain why?
Is it because Democrats will only vote for good looking people who promise they will do the exact opposite of the present leadership?
Why not take a look at someone who actually has new workable ideas instead of unrealistic ideals.
Personal commentary removed
Well, Richardson certainly isn't electable until he breaks 10 percent in the polls.
... can't wait to hear from the mindless repubs touting Rudy Guiliani... who happens to have positions similar to those of Howard Dean on abortion and gays... to the left of Howard Dean on gun control... and Rudy's decidedly to the left of Dean, Obama, Edwards, Richardson and Hillary in the choice of a good cocktail dress...
(http://www.passionateamerica.com/pictures/Giuliani_Drag.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrE6FMpai8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fsayanythingblog%2Ecom%2Fentry%2Fnational%5Freview%5Fasks%5Fbut%5Fwill%5Fit%5Fplay%5Fin%5Fpeoria%2F
Hell, I think Fred Thompson is going to run because the other GOP candidates are self-destructing. The Republicans are going to beg him to salvage the party -- if he can.
-- Giuliani (who I sorta like) is pro-choice on abortion and is OK with gay marriage. That's an automatic out for the GOP.
-- McCain keeps putting his foot in his mouth, especially spouting off how safe the streets of Bagdad are, then "proving" it by taking a stroll with 100 soldiers, two helicopters and a bulletproof vest. Yeah, I'd be safe in that scenario, too. [}:)]
-- Romney, based on his long flip-flop record, doesn't seem to have any bedrock principles. I also find it stunning that he was the top money-maker in the first quarter, yet can barely break 10 percent in the polls.
-- Huckabee, who I considered a dark horse, couldn't even raise $1 million during the quarter. He's done.
Thompson (not Tommy) will seem like a strong contender until the media start asking him hard questions about his marriages, the Iraq occupation, torture, Social Security, federal spending, corruption, the Justice Department, Hurricane Katrina, illegal immigration and last but not least President Bush. Then he'll be as weakened as the rest of them.
Then again, I'm betting GOP voters will hold their noses, vote for Giuliani, and wave off the religious right. Many GOP voters like authority figures, and he's definitely one.
RW- The far right Christian conservatives are going to have to get over themselves on Rudy's abortion and gay marriage stance. Both seem to be more state's rights issues, so if they are really concerned about it, then they need to lobby harder in state elections. In the absence of any other qualified GOP candidates, they can plan on ceding the 2008 general to the Democrats if they don't nominate Rudy.
Gingrich is no solution, but I guess they might think someone who can't keep his schmekel in his pants is a better alternative to someone else who can't do the same but who also favors gay marriage and pro-choice. I do think Rudy's been pretty clever in saying he would pick more Roberts and Alito type justices to try to pass muster with the far right.
I'm hoping more centrist GOP's will mobilize to get Rudy nominated. The only thing I don't like about Rudy is his stance on guns. No, I don't have a large arsenal, but I do appreciate my 2nd amendment rights.
Personal commentary removed
Topics: Barack Obama, George Kaiser and visiting Tulsa.
Posts: Little to do with above.
On topic, or out of the thread.
Sorry for being O/T but what happened to Teddy Jack Eddy's posts? Did we have dualing identities from an IP address, or was Paul Tay back?
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Sorry for being O/T but what happened to Teddy Jack Eddy's posts? Did we have dualing identities from an IP address, or was Paul Tay back?
They weren't removed by staff. Likely they were removed by him, who was upset with the course the thread had taken.