Thought this might be a fun thought-provoking topic:
I was told a long time ago that the north/south named streets east of Main St. are named after cities east of Tulsa, those west of main street are named after cities west of Tulsa.
Just a few questions, though, in what states west of Tulsa are Xenophon and Elwood located and does anyone know why we named Harvard and Yale after eastern colleges (or is it for the universities and why didn't we recognize Princeton, Dartmouth, Brown, etc.?) and who or what is Lewis Ave. named after?
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Thought this might be a fun thought-provoking topic:
I was told a long time ago that the north/south named streets east of Main St. are named after cities east of Tulsa, those west of main street are named after cities west of Tulsa.
Just a few questions, though, in what states west of Tulsa are Xenophon and Elwood located and does anyone know why we named Harvard and Yale after eastern colleges (or is it for the universities and why didn't we recognize Princeton, Dartmouth, Brown, etc.?) and who or what is Lewis Ave. named after?
I came across the answer to your Lewis question a couple of weeks ago (//%22http://www.batesline.com/archives/003091.html%22), from a 1957 obituary in the
Tribune. It was named after S. R. "Buck" Lewis, an attorney, Democratic Party leader, and real estate developer. He developed the Cherokee Heights Addition, between Utica, Lewis, Archer, and the Frisco tracks.
There is an elwood nebraska...
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
There is an elwood nebraska...
xenophon is named after Area 51.
I was told, ages ago, that the cities were divided by west of the Mississippi and east of the Mississipi.
A Harvard alumni group asked the city to name a street for their school, so the city did so and Harvard Avenue was born. And of course, once that happened, the Yale alumni group requested the same thing, and Yale Avenue was born.
The streets that run east-west north of Admiral are named after Tulsa founders. Most can be found in many of the Tulsa history books.
Gus Patton named the streets downtown. He was our first civil engineer. I don't think he is a relative, but I get conflicting family stories.
He walked a hundred paces from the railroad tracks and laid out first street. That is why the downtown streets are slanted to the tracks and not to north, south, east and west.
There is still one house on Patton street in west Tulsa, but the rest of the street was wiped out when they built the expressway to the Turner Turnpike.
The East and West thing is most evident downtown.
With Main street as the MISSISSIPPI cities to the west are western cities in alphabetical order (Boulder, Cheyenne, Denver...). Same to the East with Eastern cities (Boston, Cincinnati, Detroit...).
The west/east of the Mississippi is an urban myth. For example, St. Louis Ave. It's west of the Mississippi River, but east of Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
There is an elwood nebraska...
There's also an Elwood, Utah.
If the street were east of Main, there would be more possible answers.
On a related note, I wrote the "Street Network" section for the "Tulsa" entry on Wikipedia. I hope I got it right.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
Gus Patton named the streets downtown. He was our first civil engineer. I don't think he is a relative, but I get conflicting family stories.
He walked a hundred paces from the railroad tracks and laid out first street. That is why the downtown streets are slanted to the tracks and not to north, south, east and west.
There is still one house on Patton street in west Tulsa, but the rest of the street was wiped out when they built the expressway to the Turner Turnpike.
Actually, it was Gus and Dan Patton, two brothers hired by the city to survey and plat the town.
Eventually, it was discovered the Frisco railroad tracks, used to lay out Tulsa's first streets, did not go true east-west, so as the town expanded, the streets were eventually made to go true north-south and east-west, which is why you see downtown streets go at an angle compared to the rest of the city.
The east-west streets north of Admiral used to be numbered, just as the streets south of Admiral. Then the names were changed to honor pioneer settlers, such as Jeff ARCHER, the BRADY family, .......
And the Mississippi River used for street names is no myth. The Patton brothers were also responsible for this (although, I agree St. Louis is west of the Mississippi. Maybe they meant East St. Louis).
The city stopped naming north-south streets (avenues, actually) after cities once they hit Sheridan because of the difficulty finding cities that started with X and Z.
quote:
Originally posted by NCTulsan
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
There is an elwood nebraska...
There's also an Elwood, Utah.
If the street were east of Main, there would be more possible answers.
On a related note, I wrote the "Street Network" section for the "Tulsa" entry on Wikipedia. I hope I got it right.
Only one small correction to your post on Wikipedia. Admiral Blvd is actually the dividing line between north and south streets. Many people mistakenly believe it is Admiral Place because Admiral Place is the more developed street.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
[brActually, it was Gus and Dan Patton, two brothers hired by the city to survey and plat the town.
Dan Patton was also Mayor during the real boom of Tulsa in the late 1920s. He was elected Mayor in 1928 and during his administration the following buildings were completed...The NBT building (320 S. Boston) the Philtower, Boston Avenue Methodist Church, the Train Depot, the first airport, even the Phillips home which became Philbrook.
We need a Mayor like that again.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
There is an elwood nebraska...
No- it's ELKWOOD Nebraska, (Not Elwood) and that town no longer will exist since big bad Omaha Annexed it into the city of Omaha. it caused many hard feelings amoung the towns residents. The little city was located NW of Omaha. I believe it was just last month that Omaha took over that town. New maps will no longer have it listed.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
The east-west streets north of Admiral used to be numbered, just as the streets south of Admiral. Then the names were changed to honor pioneer settlers, such as Jeff ARCHER, the BRADY family, .......
Yeah sure. Next you'll try to tell me that Virgin has nothing to do with the activity of cults.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
Originally posted by NCTulsan
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
There is an elwood nebraska...
There's also an Elwood, Utah.
If the street were east of Main, there would be more possible answers.
On a related note, I wrote the "Street Network" section for the "Tulsa" entry on Wikipedia. I hope I got it right.
Only one small correction to your post on Wikipedia. Admiral Blvd is actually the dividing line between north and south streets. Many people mistakenly believe it is Admiral Place because Admiral Place is the more developed street.
Wilbur, thank you for that clarification. I'll make the correction on Wikipedia.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
The east-west streets north of Admiral used to be numbered, just as the streets south of Admiral. Then the names were changed to honor pioneer settlers, such as Jeff ARCHER, the BRADY family, .......
Yeah sure. Next you'll try to tell me that Virgin has nothing to do with the activity of cults.
Did you ever think that they threw the virgins in the volcanoes as an excuse for girls to put out?
Put out what?
(ducking)
Did you know that you can purchase a copy of the original plat map of the city of Tulsa from the Oklahoma Heritage Association over in OKC. I got one last winter, it lists the east west streets north of the railroad as numbered not named. The date of the survey is December 1901 in Tulsa, Creek Nation, Indian Territory. The Map is pretty big and kind of fun. At that time downtown was only a couple of blocks adjacent to the original railroad depot. The signature on the survey is Gus Patton. The only listed piece of property is the St Teresa Institute, what was that?
I made an error, the plat maps are available from the Oklahoma Historical Society over in OKC not the Heritage group. My bad.
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
I made an error, the plat maps are available from the Oklahoma Historical Society over in OKC not the Heritage group. My bad.
My street, 19th street, was originally named Tookah street. Have had really hard time finding out why though. There was a Dr. from Tulsa who made one of the first contributions to start the medical school at OU. His daughter was named Tookah.
Anyone know where it comes from?
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
The only listed piece of property is the St Teresa Institute, what was that?
The St Teresa Institute was a Roman Catholic school. It was on the southeast corner of 3rd & Elgin, facing 3rd. The Catholic Church was to the east of the school building, also facing 3rd Street. Both school and church were on block 115, which is now occupied by KOTV Channel 6. Block 115 did not have an alley -- a rare exception on the Pattons' plat. The block is also not quite a square, being 320 feet in the north-south direction instead of the standard 300 feet. I've read that the Pattons wanted to preserve an existing orchard, so they narrowed the right-of-way of 3rd to 60 feet instead of the standard 80 feet, which resulted in a few rectangular blocks on the south side of 3rd east of Cincinnati.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Gus Patton named the streets downtown. He was our first civil engineer. I don't think he is a relative, but I get conflicting family stories.
He walked a hundred paces from the railroad tracks and laid out first street. That is why the downtown streets are slanted to the tracks and not to north, south, east and west.
Main Street was Tulsa's initial, and for awhile, its only street. Main was laid out perpendicular to the Frisco tracks around 1882.
The Patton brothers surveyed and platted the townsite in 1901. There was a settlement consisting of several streets and blocks which had developed by that time. The Pattons did their best to superimpose a regular street grid over the existing development. They renamed all the streets which existed at that time except for Main Street. Crowell became Cincinnati. Lindsey became Boston. Archer became Boulder. Spring became Cheyenne. 4th became what is now 1st St; 5th became 2nd; 6th became 3rd; 7th became 4th.
The existing blocks were renumbered. For example, block 1 became block 61; block 2 became block 60; block 3 became blocks 41, 59, and 73; block 4 became 72; block 5 became 71; block 6 became 70; block 7 became 91; block 8 became 90; block 9 became 89; block 10 became 105; block 11 became 104; block 12 became 103; block 13 became 88; block 14 became 106; block 15 became 118; block 16 became 119.
North-south avenues east of Main Street were named for cities east of Tulsa. The Pattons named Greenwood after their hometown in Arkansas. There was a Jackson Avenue east of Main in the original plat. It ran for about one block north of the Frisco tracks to what is now Archer Street between blocks 50 and 51.
The Pattons did not indicate a cemetery at 2nd and Frisco on their plat, which leads me to believe that they might have overlooked an old burial ground while they were surveying the townsite from August until December 1901. Human bones were unearthed in that vicinity from time to time for many years and as recently as 2005 when site work began for the BOK Center arena. If anyone has additional information on that cemetery (or burial ground), please post it. I suspect that the most recent
Tulsa World articles (from 2005) about the origins of that cemetery are incorrect.
Whatever the original rhyme or reason for Tulsa street naming conventions are, I think it makes Tulsa a very easy city to navigate, especially the alphabetical order of named streets in the older parts of town. That was a brilliant idea; I don't know why more cities Tulsa's age and younger did not do the same.
I have lived here all of my 50+ years and the street naming system is ingrained in my brain, but I know people that move here from other areas and they also have said that the naming/numbering system, once learned, makes perfect sense and makes for easy navigation and location of addresses.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Whatever the original rhyme or reason for Tulsa street naming conventions are, I think it makes Tulsa a very easy city to navigate, specially the alphatabetical order of named streets in the older parts of town. That was a brilliant idea; I don't know why more cities Tulsa's age and younger did not do the same.
I have lived here all of my 50+ years and the street naming system is ingrained in my brain, but I know people that move here from other areas and they also have said that the naming/numbering system, once learned, makes perfect sense and makes for easy navigation and location of addresses.
Agree. I hate it when have to drive into Broken Arrow and suddenly become clueless as to what street i'm "actually" on.
The biggest culture shock to me was the year I moved to Houston (1991). Talk about no rhyme or reason to the streets. All over the place, names changed after intersections, with directions, and if you didn't have a Key Map you were a goner (this is before the days of TomTom).
I used to tell people that if you gave me two addresses in Tulsa, I could tell you the quickest way to get between the two without a map. I think I can still do it.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
I used to tell people that if you gave me two addresses in Tulsa, I could tell you the quickest way to get between the two without a map. I think I can still do it.
Exactly Hoss. If I have an address in Tulsa today, within the Tulsa city limits, I can pinpoint the location in my head, without having to resort to maps or anything else. Tulsa's early street planners knew exactly what they were doing, and made it easy for we future generations.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
I used to tell people that if you gave me two addresses in Tulsa, I could tell you the quickest way to get between the two without a map. I think I can still do it.
Exactly Hoss. If I have an address in Tulsa today, within the Tulsa city limits, I can pinpoint the location in my head, without having to resort to maps or anything else. Tulsa's early street planners knew exactly what they were doing, and made it easy for we future generations.
And you have to give props to the later city planners who decided not to break an already foolproof system. When they ran out of cities, just start naming the streets by numbers, and in some cases, just name the majors with a name. I can always remember 65 - Sheridan, 81 - Memorial, 97 - Mingo, 113 - Garnett. The only place I can get screwed up is west of the river where Southwest Blvd just does a number to me if I'm trying to find out where something is.
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
Quote
The Pattons did not indicate a cemetery at 2nd and Frisco on their plat, which leads me to believe that they might have overlooked an old burial ground while they were surveying the townsite from August until December 1901. Human bones were unearthed in that vicinity from time to time for many years and as recently as 2005 when site work began for the BOK Center arena. If anyone has additional information on that cemetery (or burial ground), please post it. I suspect that the most recent Tulsa World articles (from 2005) about the origins of that cemetery are incorrect.
The cemetery is marked on the 1915 Sanborn Fire Maps (//%22http://www.tulsalibrary.org:2204/splash.html%22), Sheets 11, 17, 43, and 44. (Sheet 44 also shows the location of the Sand Springs Bottling Co. Pop Factory, the Tulsa Street Railway barn, and a "Bluff Line" just a bit west of the cemetery. 2nd wasn't open west of Guthrie, evidently because of the terrain, and it was a dead end between Guthrie and the cemetery.)
Every street in Tulsa is Shakedown Street.....just gotta swerve around [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
Quote
The Pattons did not indicate a cemetery at 2nd and Frisco on their plat, which leads me to believe that they might have overlooked an old burial ground while they were surveying the townsite from August until December 1901. Human bones were unearthed in that vicinity from time to time for many years and as recently as 2005 when site work began for the BOK Center arena. If anyone has additional information on that cemetery (or burial ground), please post it. I suspect that the most recent Tulsa World articles (from 2005) about the origins of that cemetery are incorrect.
The cemetery is marked on the 1915 Sanborn Fire Maps (//%22http://www.tulsalibrary.org:2204/splash.html%22), Sheets 11, 17, 43, and 44. (Sheet 44 also shows the location of the Sand Springs Bottling Co. Pop Factory, the Tulsa Street Railway barn, and a "Bluff Line" just a bit west of the cemetery. 2nd wasn't open west of Guthrie, evidently because of the terrain, and it was a dead end between Guthrie and the cemetery.)
I think I've found part of the answer in Phil Mulkins' "Action Line" column in last Halloween's issue of the Tulsa World (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071031_1_A5_spanc85077%22).
What I was wondering is why Gus Patton did not indicate the cemetery on the plat of the townsite in 1901.
I was using several sources of information:
1. Sanborn maps -- the cemetery first appeared on the 1907 edition (sheet 8). It was shown in the northwest portion of Block 99 and in Second St to the north of Block 99. The 1907 Sanborn also shows that the alley in Block 100 had been revised as an east-west alley. On the 1901 Patton plat, Block 100 has a north-south alley. Later editions of the Sanborn maps indicate a cemetery more centered on the intersection of Second and Frisco.
2. The Beginning of Tulsa, by J.M. Hall. Hall mentions that Tulsa's first cemetery was laid out in 1882, but he doesn't give a location. It seemed strange to me that the Patton survey crew could miss a cemetery less than 20 years old, or not acknowledge it on the plat.
3. Dr. S.G. Kennedy's memoirs. Kennedy descibes a number of early trails and roads around Tulsa. He mentions an old "burial ground" west of Tulsa off First Street. Kennedy used the term "burial ground" instead of "cemetery" in his account.
4. An 1898 USGS map. I see no cemetery near the vicinity of what would be platted as Second and Frisco in 1901. It seems to me that a cemetery established in 1882 would show up on a USGS map published 16 years later.
Phil Mulkins' November 2, 2007 column (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071102_1_A8_spanc53676%22) included even more information about the cemetery.
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2005/050909_A9_Arena3570_bonemap9.jpg)
How could Gus Patton and his survey crew miss a cemetery this large, or why would they not indicate it at all on their 1901 townsite plat?
The (boo)World may never know...
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
The biggest culture shock to me was the year I moved to Houston (1991). Talk about no rhyme or reason to the streets. All over the place, names changed after intersections, with directions, and if you didn't have a Key Map you were a goner (this is before the days of TomTom).
I used to tell people that if you gave me two addresses in Tulsa, I could tell you the quickest way to get between the two without a map. I think I can still do it.
Try Boston. That will get you going in Circles.
Try a lot of the northeastern U.S. A compass is useless. Follow the Route numbers or you will get hopelessly lost.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Whatever the original rhyme or reason for Tulsa street naming conventions are, I think it makes Tulsa a very easy city to navigate, especially the alphabetical order of named streets in the older parts of town. That was a brilliant idea; I don't know why more cities Tulsa's age and younger did not do the same.
I have lived here all of my 50+ years and the street naming system is ingrained in my brain, but I know people that move here from other areas and they also have said that the naming/numbering system, once learned, makes perfect sense and makes for easy navigation and location of addresses.
I'm newish here, and I agree with you to a point. If you're talking about Midtown addresses, you're absolutely right, But there are also some confusing aspects of the street system. The E-W streets having a N and a S counterpart, the numbered N-S streets out west and way out east, the streets inexplicably changing name in BA, and the abundance of parallel streets having the same name with a different suffix (XX Street, XX Place, etc). All of this can make Tulsa extremely confusing to the outsider. But getting around in the area from roughly downtown to Yale or Sheridan and points south is pretty simple to get around in.
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
The west/east of the Mississippi is an urban myth. For example, St. Louis Ave. It's west of the Mississippi River, but east of Tulsa.
I don't know how much of a myth it is. Tulsa has streets named "Boston" "Cincinatti" and "Denver" which is west of Tulsa. I have heard the same thing that Connan 71 mentioned. They say every myth has some truth in it (or whatever that saying is).[xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
The biggest culture shock to me was the year I moved to Houston (1991). Talk about no rhyme or reason to the streets. All over the place, names changed after intersections, with directions, and if you didn't have a Key Map you were a goner (this is before the days of TomTom).
I used to tell people that if you gave me two addresses in Tulsa, I could tell you the quickest way to get between the two without a map. I think I can still do it.
I did not know that about Houston- I find the streets in Salt Lake City hard to get a handle on if you look at a map you'll see what I mean, also Atlanta, GA is ruff, they have no grid patterns and every street has the name "PeachTree" in it or so it seems. Metro-Detroit where I grew up has one of the most easy grid patterns for streets, 8 mile, 9 mile, 10 mile, 11 mile road and so at each mile, the N.S. streets are also layed out at 1-mile sections with minor streets at the half mile mark. Tulsa is pretty easy too.[8D]
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I was told a long time ago that the north/south named streets east of Main St. are named after cities east of Tulsa, those west of main street are named after cities west of Tulsa.
In the original plat, Houston Avenue (if named for Houston,Texas) is the only one which doesn't fit that pattern. Houston is slightly east of Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by bugo
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Whatever the original rhyme or reason for Tulsa street naming conventions are, I think it makes Tulsa a very easy city to navigate, especially the alphabetical order of named streets in the older parts of town. That was a brilliant idea; I don't know why more cities Tulsa's age and younger did not do the same.
I have lived here all of my 50+ years and the street naming system is ingrained in my brain, but I know people that move here from other areas and they also have said that the naming/numbering system, once learned, makes perfect sense and makes for easy navigation and location of addresses.
I'm newish here, and I agree with you to a point. If you're talking about Midtown addresses, you're absolutely right, But there are also some confusing aspects of the street system. The E-W streets having a N and a S counterpart, the numbered N-S streets out west and way out east, the streets inexplicably changing name in BA, and the abundance of parallel streets having the same name with a different suffix (XX Street, XX Place, etc). All of this can make Tulsa extremely confusing to the outsider. But getting around in the area from roughly downtown to Yale or Sheridan and points south is pretty simple to get around in.
Good points, but in Tulsa proper, always remember N-S numbered street will be East or West Avenues, with the exceptions being arterial roads. As far as street/place/court suffixes are concerned, they will always be in succession, right next to each other in the grid. I believe Tulsa naming convention dictates the first street to be named "Street," the second to be "Terrace" or "Court," the third to be named "Place." Regardless, they will always be right in a row next to each other. The naming of streets as St., Place, Terrace, Court, comes from curvature of the streets and conforming to the basic grid pattern, but all streets with the same number but different suffix will always be within 1-2 blocks of each other.
I guess it is all so simple to me, having lived here all my life.
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
Quote
The Pattons did not indicate a cemetery at 2nd and Frisco on their plat, which leads me to believe that they might have overlooked an old burial ground while they were surveying the townsite from August until December 1901. Human bones were unearthed in that vicinity from time to time for many years and as recently as 2005 when site work began for the BOK Center arena. If anyone has additional information on that cemetery (or burial ground), please post it. I suspect that the most recent Tulsa World articles (from 2005) about the origins of that cemetery are incorrect.
The cemetery is marked on the 1915 Sanborn Fire Maps (//%22http://www.tulsalibrary.org:2204/splash.html%22), Sheets 11, 17, 43, and 44. (Sheet 44 also shows the location of the Sand Springs Bottling Co. Pop Factory, the Tulsa Street Railway barn, and a "Bluff Line" just a bit west of the cemetery. 2nd wasn't open west of Guthrie, evidently because of the terrain, and it was a dead end between Guthrie and the cemetery.)
I think I've found part of the answer in Phil Mulkins' "Action Line" column in last Halloween's issue of the Tulsa World (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071031_1_A5_spanc85077%22).
What I was wondering is why Gus Patton did not indicate the cemetery on the plat of the townsite in 1901.
I was using several sources of information:
1. Sanborn maps -- the cemetery first appeared on the 1907 edition (sheet 8). It was shown in the northwest portion of Block 99 and in Second St to the north of Block 99. The 1907 Sanborn also shows that the alley in Block 100 had been revised as an east-west alley. On the 1901 Patton plat, Block 100 has a north-south alley. Later editions of the Sanborn maps indicate a cemetery more centered on the intersection of Second and Frisco.
2. The Beginning of Tulsa, by J.M. Hall. Hall mentions that Tulsa's first cemetery was laid out in 1882, but he doesn't give a location. It seemed strange to me that the Patton survey crew could miss a cemetery less than 20 years old, or not acknowledge it on the plat.
3. Dr. S.G. Kennedy's memoirs. Kennedy descibes a number of early trails and roads around Tulsa. He mentions an old "burial ground" west of Tulsa off First Street. Kennedy used the term "burial ground" instead of "cemetery" in his account.
4. An 1898 USGS map. I see no cemetery near the vicinity of what would be platted as Second and Frisco in 1901. It seems to me that a cemetery established in 1882 would show up on a USGS map published 16 years later.
Phil Mulkins' November 2, 2007 column (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071102_1_A8_spanc53676%22) included even more information about the cemetery.
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2005/050909_A9_Arena3570_bonemap9.jpg)
How could Gus Patton and his survey crew miss a cemetery this large, or why would they not indicate it at all on their 1901 townsite plat?
The (boo)World may never know...
I found a little more information on the cemetery at 2nd and Frisco at the Tulsa City-County Libary Genealogy Center (//%22http://www.tulsalibrary.org/gecenter/%22) last week:
From Bill Inglis's Illustrated Guide to the Cemeteries of Tulsa County, Oklahoma:
"If you had the misfortune to die of gunshot wounds, or otherwise, during your stay in Tulsey, you probably were buried near 2nd and Frisco. It really wasn't ever 'officially' designated as a cemetery, so when the streets were laid out the graves were just dug up and re-interred in the new Oaklawn Cemetery, way out of town on 11th Street."