I got this e-mail that I am sure many have already seen. Sorry about the format:
The author is unknown but he makes a point....If we just open our eyes we can see how fortunate we are....what do we want?
The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across some poll data I found rather hard to believe. It must be true given the source, right?
The Newsweek poll alleges that 67% of Americans are unhappy with the direction the country is headed and 69% of the country is unhappy with
the performance of the president. In essence 2/3 of the citizenry just isn't happy and want a change.So being the knuckle dragger I am, I started thinking, ''What are we unhappy about?''
Is it that we have electricity and running water 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?
Is our unhappiness the result of having air conditioning in the summer and
heating in the winter? Could it be that 95.4% of these unhappy folks have a job?
Maybe it is the ability to walk into a grocery store at any time and see more food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last year?
Maybe it is the ability to drive from the Pacific ocean to the Atlantic ocean without having to present identification papers as we move through each state?
Or possibly the hundreds of clean and safe motels we would find along the way that can provide temporary shelter?
I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world is just not good enough.
Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and provide services to help all and even send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.
Perhaps you are one of the 70% of Americans who own a home. You may be upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of
trained firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the flames thus saving you, your family and your
belongings.
Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler intrudes, you can shoot him with your own gun, or if
there's time an officer equipped with a gun and a bulletproof vest will come to defend you and your family against attack or loss.
This all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging the residents.
Neighborhoods where 90% of teenagers own cell phones and computers.
How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world? Maybe that is what has 67% of you folks unhappy.
Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats the world has ever seen. No wonder the world loves the U.S. yet has a great disdain for its citizens. They see us for what we are. The most blessed people
in the world who do nothing but complain about what we don't have and what we hate about the country instead of thanking the good Lord we live here.
I know, I know. What about the president who took us into war and has no plan to get us out? The president who has a measly 31% approval
rating?
Is this the same president who guided the nation in the dark days after 9/11?
The president that cut taxes to bring an economy out of recession?
Could this be the same guy who has been called every name in the book for succeeding in keeping all the spoiled ungrateful brats safe from terrorist attacks?
The commander in chief of an all-volunteer army that is out there defending you and me?
Did you hear how bad the President is on the news or talk show? Did this news affect you so much, make you so unhappy you couldn't take a look around for yourself and see all the good things and be glad?
Think about it......are you upset at the President because he actually caused you personal pain OR is it because the "Media" told you he was failing to kiss your sorry ungrateful behind every day.
Make no mistake about it. The troops! in Iraq and Afghanistan have volunteered to serve, and in many cases may have died for your freedom.
There is currently no draft in this country. They didn't have to go. They are able to refuse to go and end up with either a ''general''
discharge, an ''other than honorable'' discharge or, worst case scenario, a
''dishonorable'' discharge after a few days in the brig.
So why then the flat-out discontentment in the minds of 69% of Americans?
Say what you want but I blame it on the media. If it bleeds, it leads, and they specialize in bad news.
Everybody will watch a car crash with blood and guts. How many will watch kids selling lemonade at the corner?
The media knows this and media outlets are for-profit corporations. They offer what sells, and when criticized, try to defend their actions by
"justifying" themselves in one way or another.
Just ask why they tried to allow a murderer like O.J. Simpson to write a book about how he didn't kill his wife, but if he did he would have done it this way...... Insane!
Stop buying the negativism you are fed everyday by the media. Shut off the TV, burn Newsweek, and use the New York Times for the
bottom of your bird cage Then start being grateful for all we have as a
country.
There is exponentially more good than bad.
WE ARE THE MOST BLESSED PEOPLE ON EARTH,
WE SHOULD THANK GOD SEVERAL TIMES PER DAY.....
<start clip>
Shut off the TV, burn Newsweek, and use the New York Times for the bottom of your bird cage Then start being grateful for all we have as a
country.
<end clip>
I don't watch TV, and I don't subscribe to or read Newsweek or the New York Times. And I consider myself a pretty optimistic guy.
I'm more like you, I guess.
But we can do better. Being content breeds complacency.
Exactly. I think what this e-mail truly reflects is not that people are dissatisfied with what we have currently, or are not thankful for the blessings we have, but are concerned we might face a future where this American lifestyle is not enjoyed by most Americans. The desire for a better standard of living and quality of life for future generations is as American as apple pie. I don't see it as a negative.
Let them eat cake!
Why fuss about the British, Colonialists? High taxes? INGRATES! Do not like quatering troops in your homes? TRAITORS! Fussbudget whiners!
Your country in debt for generations? WORRYWORTS!
The E-mails covers seems everything except that 51% of our females are single.
When one reads about the volunteers they picture the sergeant standing before the line of troops and saying "as I call your name step forward to volunteer for this mission, comes to mind."
We are no different than all the empires that have marched ahead of us over the centuries down the well trampled road. From their demise we have learned nothing. We do have plenty of paper to print additional money where the Romans had to use lead to mix with their gold to make more coins..
Our liberties were formulated in Athens some four centuries BC,
There is a possibility that the next generation will make the corrections and the e-mail might become a truism before the sun burns out.
Thanks Tim for proving the point of the e-mail.
The email would do well do leave politics out of it. Who cares if GW was the president after 911? Most people dont like him any longer... but we still live better than 95% of the people in the world.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
Thanks Tim for proving the point of the e-mail.
What is the point? Ask for less? Refuse to hold our gubmint to a higher standard? Allow the charade of prosperity to continue while our grandchildrens' future is mortgaged through the acquiescence or lazy-minded semps?
What was that Kennedyism, 'Some look at the world and ask why, others look and say why not?'
"charade of prosperity "
As you sit inside at a computer typing on a forum at 10am on a Monday having survived freezing weather over the weekend.
Times must be tough for Tim.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
but we still live better than 95% of the people in the world.
Tell that to the families that have lost loved ones in Iraq or who have lost their jobs and homes. I am very grateful for the things that I have in my life. I worked on an international project for many years that provided aid (health and nutrition education) to third world countries. So I know exactly how much worse it could be. But we are also known as the best country in world yet we still have racism, high crime rates (not just in Tulsa), people living and dying on the streets, poor healthcare, CEO's that make millions upon millions while the working class make less and less. Although we are a great country, I think we could do better.
We focus way to much on things like illegal immigrants and rebuilding other nations once we have blown them up when we are nation built on immigrants and could use some rebuilding in our own nation. Don't get me wrong illegal immigration is a problem. But so are school shootings and dropout rates. Where is the minuteman project to prevent this? I would much rather have a volunteer project protect our schools then our borders. We are better then many other countries. But we can still do better and should strive to do better.
How dare you, DM, ask for a higher standard? How presumptious to compain about your one broken finger when you have nine other digits! When labor fought for a minimum wage they should have been grateful sheep; when children were slaves to sewing machines in the US their parents should have thanked the Almighty for such benevolent Masters; why should the children of slaves have fought Jim Crow when they had plenty beans in the cupboard?
'You have not because you ask not'? Phsaw!!
quote:
Originally posted by DM
Tell that to the families that have lost loved ones in Iraq or who have lost their jobs and homes.
What a foolish thing to say. You are not entitled an easy and carefree life. You are not entitled to a job and a home by virtue of your birth. As far as you Iraq comment, it was in poor taste and a miserable non-sequitor.
quote:
But we are also known as the best country in world yet we still have racism, high crime rates (not just in Tulsa), people living and dying on the streets, poor healthcare, CEO's that make millions upon millions while the working class make less and less. Although we are a great country, I think we could do better.
Let me grab a tissue before I continue...
quote:
We focus way to much on things like illegal immigrants and rebuilding other nations once we have blown them up when we are nation built on immigrants and could use some rebuilding in our own nation. Don't get me wrong illegal immigration is a problem. But so are school shootings and dropout rates. Where is the minuteman project to prevent this? I would much rather have a volunteer project protect our schools then our borders. We are better then many other countries. But we can still do better and should strive to do better.
My god. I can't even begin to count the number of non-sequitors and logical dumps taken in this paragraph. Why aren't the Minutemen helping with drop-out rates? Probably for the same reason police officers don't come to your house at night to tutor your kids in math. Sheesh....
we're already fat & dumb...but why cant we be happy?!
[V]
People living and dying in the streets, all these millions without healtcare but, yet we waste too much time on illegal immigration. Yes, let's give jobs, welfare, and healthcare to people who are not U.S. citizens and let our own live and die in the streets and go without healthcare. [B)]
FWIW- America is essentially at full employment. For everyone that is capable of working or wants a job, there is a job. Those who are not working either are not physically or mentally capable of working, or just don't want to work.
Please quit confusing the personal choices of individuals with a cruel government that doesn't care about it's poor. People drop out of high school as a personal choice. The gov't didn't force it on them. Should we dumb down the schools so everyone will pass and not drop out?
Please quit confusing lack of ambition, work ethic, and skills with lack of good-paying employment opportunities.
How many of you who spout this liberal clap-trap of social and economic parity would be willing to take a $10K per year pay cut, just so your neighbor who doesn't have the same ambition and work ethic can enjoy the same standard of living as you?
There will always be entry level jobs and doctorate level jobs. Pay will always be commensurate with the amount of training and skill necessary to perform a job. Some people dream to be at the top of the heap, those people get a post-high school education of four years or more. Other's don't have the same ambition, thus they bring fewer skills to the table and will never be paid as much as those who are better trained for higher-paying jobs.
People responsible for properly managing a company to provide jobs for 4,000 people should be paid more than the person pushing a broom or loading trucks and should not be met with scorn for their own success in providing jobs and benefits to others.
If companies raised the wages of the "working poor", then the next whine job would be how high our inflation is because of greedy companies.
Socialism is a failure. All it does is inspire mediocrity and wide-spread poverty, not wide-spread prosperity.
Talk about non-sequitors! Conflating OJ Simpson's ability to secure a book contract with the war in Iraq! Cheerleading our television sets while ignoring the $7 TRILLION national debt! Applauding our low unemployment rate while ignoring the fact that we work longer, harder than our 'industrialized' peers (when is Tax Freedom Day '07, anyway?)!
G'head, drink that kool-aid. Say, is that not W hunched over the writer of the email? Ignore that golden stream, fool, it must be rain.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Talk about non-sequitors! Conflating OJ Simpson's ability to secure a book contract with the war in Iraq! Cheerleading our television sets while ignoring the $7 TRILLION national debt! Applauding our low unemployment rate while ignoring the fact that we work longer, harder than our 'industrialized' peers (when is Tax Freedom Day '07, anyway?)!
G'head, drink that kool-aid. Say, is that not W hunched over the writer of the email? Ignore that golden stream, fool, it must be rain.
I'd watch who I call a "fool" there Timmy, I mean AOX.
See, the funny thing is I am not that poster. If one is conscious, has an inkling of intelligence, that pap email is absurd prima facie.
Whoopee! We got TV ya'll! Clean hotels!
Perhaps there is somewhere else we should look to for a society that better suits your fancies? Possibly France...maybe Russia...what about Iran?
Geez I love America haters.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
Perhaps there is somewhere else we should look to for a society that better suits your fancies? Possibly France...maybe Russia...what about Iran?
Geez I love America haters.
Acutally, I bet he'd look smashing in a burka, told to walk 10 feet behind men and treated as livestock in some Middle Eastern sh!t hole.
I don't think a single one of these anti-establishment, glass-half-empty crowd gives a thought to what real squalor is, and that there are many countries around the globe where you are not allowed to say
anything about it.
You guys are the ones outnumbered, YOU leave!
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
You guys are the ones outnumbered, YOU leave!
What are you talking about AOX? I agree with Conan. I bet you'd look real cute in a head-to-toe veil.
You never did answer me. What country looks better to you?
Outnumbered? What, are you are saying there are more nut-job communistas out there than people who actually appreciate our country? You are so far out there, not even the other libs on this forum agree with you or even bother to address you.
It amazes me there are people who benefit from the prosperity of this country, then proceed to wipe their arse with it and claim it doesn't exist.
If America sucks so bad and we are such a "poor" nation, why are so many others clamoring to get inside our borders?
There are none. America is the world's last, best hope for universal freedom and prosperity. No doubt.
How bout that Kelo decision, in which Republican appointed Supreme Court Justices decided that the 5th Amendment no longer applies to property owners? You like that?
DM:
Nothing you said negates the fact that the average American lives better than 95% of the people on Earth. I disagree with many of the issues you imply in your post (for instance, American's real wages are not decreasing) but agree, and never stated to the contrary, that I would like to see things get better.
Conan:
Some people are unemployed that are earnestly searching for a job (at full unemployment it is usually figured that 1-2% are changing positions). There are also a fair number of people who simply do not want to move and cannot find a job - they get *some* sympathy but not too damn much. And likewise, there are people who cannot find the job that they want/in their field. So not everyone that doesnt have a job is just lazy or retarded - but most people who are looking will be able to find some persuasion of employment if not their ideal... which I think is good enough for government work.
Tim:
Funny to hear a socialist ask when national tax day is. It is back up to April 30th - near its recent peak under Cliton.
(http://www.taxfoundation.org/UserFiles/Image/Tax-Freedom-Day/2007/figure3large.jpg)
1 full month is worked to pay for FICA. (insert flushing sound here)
France is around 6 months (171 days).
Sweden is hovering around 7 months.
So basically, in the United States the government takes 1/3 or what is yours. In many socialist countries (that have no poverty, crime, universal health care, perfect race relations and certainly dont suffer from a lower Median income, lower quality health care, and on going race riots) an individual doesnt even have rights to half of his property in a given year. Nice.
You hate government so much and constantly berate it for being stupid, but you for some reason think it can cure problems? Im confused.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
What a foolish thing to say. You are not entitled an easy and carefree life. You are not entitled to a job and a home by virtue of your birth. As far as you Iraq comment, it was in poor taste and a miserable non-sequitor.
Nor did I say we are entitled to it. But America is not perfect. I does not matter who the current leader is. Yes, we have it much better then many other countries. But Americans losing thier lives and homes is something that is very real in America. You may be OK with it, but I am not.
quote:
My god. I can't even begin to count the number of non-sequitors and logical dumps taken in this paragraph. Why aren't the Minutemen helping with drop-out rates? Probably for the same reason police officers don't come to your house at night to tutor your kids in math. Sheesh....
What hurts America more? A kid shooting up a school and killing classmates and teachers or illegal immigrants? No, I would not want a police officer to tutor my kid. Protect yes. But isn't the border patrol supposed to protect our borders? I am against protecting our borders. But I do know of plenty of other problems that our great nation has. Like I said before, we are not a perfect nation. Personally I don't think I would ever want to live anywhere else then America. But I do not want our nation to be known as
America: It's not THAT bad or hey, at least they have TV.
quote:
Originally posted by DM
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
What a foolish thing to say. You are not entitled an easy and carefree life. You are not entitled to a job and a home by virtue of your birth. As far as you Iraq comment, it was in poor taste and a miserable non-sequitor.
Nor did I say we are entitled to it. But America is not perfect. I does not matter who the current leader is. Yes, we have it much better then many other countries. But Americans losing thier lives and homes is something that is very real in America. You may be OK with it, but I am not.
quote:
My god. I can't even begin to count the number of non-sequitors and logical dumps taken in this paragraph. Why aren't the Minutemen helping with drop-out rates? Probably for the same reason police officers don't come to your house at night to tutor your kids in math. Sheesh....
What hurts America more? A kid shooting up a school and killing classmates and teachers or illegal immigrants? No, I would not want a police officer to tutor my kid. Protect yes. But isn't the border patrol supposed to protect our borders? I am against protecting our borders. But I do know of plenty of other problems that our great nation has. Like I said before, we are not a perfect nation. Personally I don't think I would ever want to live anywhere else then America. But I do not want our nation to be known as America: It's not THAT bad or hey, at least they have TV.
Shootings in schools is a spiritual-based issue. This isn't happening because we have a 2nd amendment which allows guns, it's happening due to a lack of respect for life. That has nothing to do with our government (unless you believe Michael Moore-on), that's a result of people abdicating their responsibility to raise children who place a value on their own life and the live's of others.
Granted, there are people who lose their homes every day due to circumstances beyond their control. But there's also another group of people who lose their homes due to a string of bad choices or laziness, and many of those people consume benefits which should wind up in the hands of those who are more deserving.
We can't provide better benefits for those who just want a hand up as long as we are willing to tollerate people who are just sitting around taking hand-outs and allowing others to sneak into the country to exploit our un-abashed largesse.
quote:
Nor did I say we are entitled to it. But America is not perfect. I does not matter who the current leader is. Yes, we have it much better then many other countries. But Americans losing thier lives and homes is something that is very real in America. You may be OK with it, but I am not.
Again, what you're proposing is a nice, feel good ideal, but honestly...no society can abolish the fact that life is at certain times, unfair. No goverment can shelter you from dissapointment, sadness, or loss, nor is it your right to be successful or happy. It's the pursuit of happiness, not the guarantee.
There is not another country on the face of the earth that affords it's people the ability to become absolutely anything they want to be.
quote:
What hurts America more? A kid shooting up a school and killing classmates and teachers or illegal immigrants?
It's nonsense to think that they are mutually exclusive commitments. Both need to be dealt with, but you don't simply ignore one because the other is a problem. It's like the guy who complains after he gets a ticket for speeding that the police shouldn't write traffic tickets because there are unsolved murders...
quote:
But I do not want our nation to be known as America: It's not THAT bad or hey, at least they have TV.
I didn't get that from that email at all. I took far more away from it than that pedantic statement you just made.
Everyone here loves America, while some of you merely would take away childhood vaccinations, public education, the minimum wage, child labor laws, equal rights for descendents of former slaves, medications for old folks, the vote for women, the promise of social security, pollution controls, and the list goes on of all the things we take for granted now but at one point were fought by 'conservatives.'
Those who are happy because they have air conditioning and TV's - so the rest of the world can go to hell - are in the minority.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Everyone here loves America, while some of you merely would take away childhood vaccinations, public education, the minimum wage, child labor laws, equal rights for descendents of former slaves, medications for old folks, the vote for women, the promise of social security, pollution controls, and the list goes on of all the things we take for granted now but at one point were fought by 'conservatives.'
Those who are happy because they have air conditioning and TV's - so the rest of the world can go to hell - are in the minority.
Only a four-year-old could read that email and think that was the point...well, sounds about right.
That is what it comes down to, though. Seems like only four year olds would agree with its simpleton sentiment. Only a child would look at a few pennies in their hand and think their family is rich when it is in debt for generations. Yup, everything I needed to know I learned in kindegarten.
Pennies in hand? Per your analogy lets compare total assets of the United States to the national debt and calculate our true debt ratio.
US Household assets: $62,500,000,000,000.00
Fortune 500 assets: $8,000,000,000,000.00
Governmental Assets: ? Timber land, oil leases, foreign debts, buildings, copyrights, tropical islands, foreign holdings, and regular assets - figure $10 trillion easy (how much is the oil leases in ANWR alone worth? 250 Billion?).
So I would have to say the debt to asset ratio isnt all that scary. Even looking at the socialist countries you admire we are well under the radar for debt load.
Do you have any idea of what you are talking about before you type or do you just ramble?
So if'n we are so flush with cash what is the big deal with universal health care? Why has the retirement age been raised? Why the whining about 'socialism'? If national debt does not matter why not just keep spending out of control?
Oh, that is right. You think childhood immunizations are 'socialist.'
Federal Feudalism?
'Our Immigration System Is Broken'
by James Parks, Apr 8, 2007
With the immigration debate heating up in Congress, experts say current U.S. immigration policy is broken and Congress needs to heed the lessons of the past to make the right choices today.
The nation's main immigration law, the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, was fatally flawed from the beginning, says former Secretary of Labor Ray Marshall.
Our flawed immigration policy encourages poor workers to come to the United States seeking a better life, Marshall says, and exposes them to exploitation by unscrupulous employers who use immigrant workers to lower wages and push up their bottom line in a global economy.
Marshall, a professor at the Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas, was a panelist at a forum last month on immigration sponsored by the Economic Policy Institute as part of its Agenda for Shared Prosperity policy initiative.
The real solutions to making our immigration system work for everyone, Marshall says, involve creating new policies that protect immigrant workers' rights in the United States and expand opportunities in their home countries.
For example, he says, we need new policies that help Mexico—where the bulk of undocumented immigrants come from—to promote job growth and create trade, investment and aid programs that reduce the country's poverty, help workers form unions and give workers opportunities that some now find only in the United States.
A recent EPI study shows that the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), which was promoted as the way to bring prosperity to Mexico, has actually hurt Mexican workers and encouraged massive migration to the United States.
Since NAFTA took effect in 1994, according to EPI, employment in Mexico has increased in the low-wage "maquiladora" industries, with the benefits flowing mainly to large companies, the financial sector and a small number of administrative and professional workers earning high salaries.
But rather than address the real problems caused by our immigration and trade policies, President Bush is pushing hard for an expanded guest worker program that includes no worker protections—and that will "hurt labor standards in the U.S.," says AFL-CIO President John Sweeney.
Expanding the H1B guest worker program would be a serious mistake, Ron Hira, a professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology, told the EPI conference. In late March, legislation was introduced to enhance protections for skilled guest workers. For more information on the legislation, click here.
Low-skill guest workers are exploited even more than those with high-level skills, according to Mary Bauer, director of the Immigrant Justice Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center. The center released a report this month that documents widespread abuse of workers in the current H2B guest worker programs. The report, Close to Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States, relates experiences of workers who take on heavy debt to come to the United States for promised work opportunities only to find the jobs pay very little—or doesn't even exist. Worse, employers often hold workers' identification papers, putting them at the mercy of the employers even if they want to return to their home country.
As Bauer says:
This is a modern-day system of indentured servitude. When their visas expire, these workers leave here and become disposable workers of the U.S. economy.
Unfortunately, this program is the model that legislators and pro-immigration groups are using in developing a new guest worker program as part of comprehensive immigration reform. This report should give pause to those who want to create a new massive guest worker program.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
So if'n we are so flush with cash what is the big deal with universal health care?
It has nothing to do with cash on hand. It comes down to the discussion we were all having about what we are "entitled" to. Universalized health care, centralized with the Federal government would not solve current health care problems but only exacerbate them.
The founding fathers sought to limit the role of the Fed in our everyday life simply because it's unable to perform tasks like health care.
We could have all the money in the world and I would still not want the Federal government imposing universal health care.
quote:
Why has the retirement age been raised?
Because when social security was created the average life expectancy was 67. Social security was never meant to supplant long term financial planning. I can't believe you know so little about the subject, oh yeah, I can...
quote:
Why the whining about 'socialism'?
Ummm, because Trotsky, it doesn't work.
quote:
Oh, that is right. You think childhood immunizations are 'socialist.'
Right. Equating immunizations with a monstrosity like universal health care. Nice comparison.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
BLAH BLAH BLAH
As long as you are on record agreeing with CF that the national debt is not a threat to our future, that as long as we have televisions we should never ask for one more thing from big gubmint, and of course most famously for CF that big gubmint vaccinations are socialist you can call me Trotsky.
Yup. Our nation is in debt for generations, household savings are at record lows, household debt is at record highs, Mercans work longer hours for less, but by golly we got us telebishuns!!
Nice masogynistic avatar Tim. I also like how you make fun of illiterate people with your manner of speaking.
Universal health care is a total farce. Children w/o immunizations- not happening. What do you think Medicaid and Medicare are for? Anyone who needs health care can get it unless they live in the sticks and it makes no economic sense to build a hospital there.
Take a look at the VA hospital system and that's what the rest of our healthcare system would look like if the government took it over. Our government is not capable of providing the same quality of efficient services as the private sector.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
BLAH BLAH BLAH
As long as you are on record agreeing with CF that the national debt is not a threat to our future, that as long as we have televisions we should never ask for one more thing from big gubmint, and of course most famously for CF that big gubmint vaccinations are socialist you can call me Trotsky.
Yup. Our nation is in debt for generations, household savings are at record lows, household debt is at record highs, Mercans work longer hours for less, but by golly we got us telebishuns!!
Okay AOX
Tim, do you realize you post the same crap over and over thread after thread? I could log 5 or 6 responses and just reuse them.
The basic types of Tim posts are:
1) Logical Falicy
You made an initial point and I countered with actual facts disproving it. In response, you changed the subject completely. This might work as a debate strategy in high school, but after that most people will catch on.
2) Misuse of previous statements
As I have said before, the debt is not a serious threat but its continued growth is alarming. Both as an economist and a fiscal conservative I hate to see the government spend so much.
Forums keep an actual record of what was typed, so you can go back and review other's positions instead of constantly making crap up. You either take previous statements out of contexts or just make up new statements.
Please cite to my statement when I said immunizations were socialist or where I wanted more government debt.
3) Contrary position
In this thread alone you have argued that our debt is too large and our government incompetent and then shifted to argue that we can afford universal health care and our government is competent enough to be responsible for our health care.
4) General retardation
Im not sure why, but for whatever reason you think acting retarded (not saying retarded as an insult, I mean literally like you are retarded) is somehow a debate strategy. I suppose it is, but its a losing one.
5) Ad Hoc statement of facts
You spew forth random "facts" with no context or commentary and sit back and pretend you made a point. Usually your facts are wrong or misused and the only point illustrated is ignorance of issues.
This category would also cover your posting of random news articles and other links.
6) Personal Attacks or disrespect
You either quote "blah blah blah," call someone a 4 year old, or tell them they are stupid in an attempt to make your point.
-------------
And there you have it, a summary of 400+ posts by Tim.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Nice masogynistic avatar Tim. I also like how you make fun of illiterate people with your manner of speaking.
Sen. Obama attended a fundraiser at Kaiser's house, so what does Kaiser - the wealthiest Tulsan - know about the economics of UHC (uni hlth cr) that you do not? How can it be that a man who you should enshrine and light candles to because of his mastery of the business world thinks we need universal health care but you are so accomplished that you know something he does not?
Anytime I would be happy to recount how you infamously used people with Down's Syndrome as an insult. Those people are great, and you spammed me with different images to make the point I was stupid or something. Why go there?
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Originally posted by tim huntzinger
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Nice masogynistic avatar Tim. I also like how you make fun of illiterate people with your manner of speaking.
Sen. Obama attended a fundraiser at Kaiser's house, so what does Kaiser - the wealthiest Tulsan - know about the economics of UHC (uni hlth cr) that you do not? How can it be that a man who you should enshrine and light candles to because of his mastery of the business world thinks we need universal health care but you are so accomplished that you know something he does not?
Anytime I would be happy to recount how you infamously used people with Down's Syndrome as an insult. Those people are great, and you spammed me with different images to make the point I was stupid or something. Why go there?
First off- O/T. Should you care to post about Obama being at Kaiser's home, post there. But since you guided us O/T, what makes you so sure that UHC is the primary reason Kaiser supports Obama? Secondly, George Kaiser will never have to worry about standing in line waiting for his UHC. Kaiser sort of spoils the image of all billionaires being evil Republicans, doesn't it? And he's not alone.
Secondly, spamming is unsolicited emails. I've never sent you unsolicited emails. You act like you are MR in many of your posts, or are just plain making fun of them with your manner of speaking and others here have seen fit to illustrate your actions with photos.
Apparently, the forum mods must not think it's in that poor taste or that far off target, since I don't recall any of the photos being deleted to date.
That was a #3 (contrary position or shift in topic).
Bill Gates trumps George Kaiser. He spends all his money on private health care initiatives and has often said that government health care spends more for less. What does he know that George Kaiser doesnt?
I mean, apparently you think rich people know more so I figured the richer they are the more they must know...
So you are defining your morality based on what a moderator on a bb allows or disallows? As long as you can get away with it, it is alright, right? Oh. That is right, you think being a tax cheat is ok. Oh. You thought the pic of the homosexuals being hung was funny. And you want to make an issue of a shopped picture of Sanjaya?
The fact is Mercans are being sold downriver, working longer for less, less job security, less corporate loyalty, fewer bennies than our industrialized peers.
Inasmuch as UHC is an integral part of Obama's plan it seems illogical that Kaiser would not be aware of it or have studied the issue. What does he know that you do not? He is a Captain of Industry, the uber-capitalist, and he supports UHC, but you know better than he does. Riiiiiiigggght.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
So you are defining your morality based on what a moderator on a bb allows or disallows? As long as you can get away with it, it is alright, right? Oh. That is right, you think being a tax cheat is ok. Oh. You thought the pic of the homosexuals being hung was funny. And you want to make an issue of a shopped picture of Sanjaya?
The fact is Mercans are being sold downriver, working longer for less, less job security, less corporate loyalty, fewer bennies than our industrialized peers.
Inasmuch as UHC is an integral part of Obama's plan it seems illogical that Kaiser would not be aware of it or have studied the issue. What does he know that you do not? He is a Captain of Industry, the uber-capitalist, and he supports UHC, but you know better than he does. Riiiiiiigggght.
Your self-righteous indignation is always entertaining. You make fun of illiterate and MR people by trying to speak like them then decry the rest of us by illustrating and highlighting your obsession with them.
See how well the OTC buys your claim of ignorance when they audit your on-line purchases, and other out-of-state purchases of tangibles while travelling, and find you have never submitted use tax since 1999. You smell like a hypocrite to me.
Your contention that Mr. Kaiser is a huge fan of UHC and that is why he had Obama here is pure conjecture unless you are in Mr. Kaiser's inner circle. He might have had him here simply because he's a loyal Democrat and Obama is his favorite candidate or because they are fellow Harvard alumni.
The only reason I can think of Mr. Kaiser being interested in UHC is due to the high costs of providing health insurance for his thousands of employees.
"Executives for major corporations -- who increasingly are calling for "broad" reforms of the employer-sponsored health insurance system as their medical costs increase -- "are by no means speaking with one voice" about specific changes, the New York Times reports. According to the Times, business executives who are calling for health system change "are motivated in large part by health insurance premiums that are rising much faster than inflation."
(Freudenheim, New York Times, 4/6).
Then that would make him just another selfish corporate magnate trying to cheat the gov't and get them to subsidize his profits, now wouldn't it? Not altruistic motives to help the poor and down-trodden, just more corporate welfare to bolster profits for republican investors. All stuff liberals love to hate.
Obama still doesn't even have a clue as to what his healthcare program might look like. Wouldn't it be a good idea to support candidates who actually have a clue as to how these things work?
http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070405/NEWS/70405025
How can you consistently be so brazen? YOU posted pictures of people with Downs as an insult. YOU equate being uneducated with being 'retarded.' YOU thought hanging homosexuals was funny.
So you think somehow that Kaiser is going to blindly support someone merely based on party loyalty? Seems fairly reckless for a good businessman, to support someone who would cause the economy to tank.
Yup. We got telebishons. We got aercondishunning. We got hours, screu yew.
(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/images/0419-01.jpg)
Well, at least it is not a picture of Anna Nicole Smith high on drugs when she was eight months pregnant. That was a real hoot, Mr. Pro-life.
I just want to see you really screw up so I can go to the Bar Association. I wonder if Onan's employer know how he feels about the retarded and the hanging of homosexuals.
You guys can tag-team alllll you want but you are nothing but bullies. Schoolyard thugs. Children who think they are so much better than others for no good reason.
What a clever email, guido. Somehow in allll this prosperity the country is evil enough to allow its unborn to be slaughtered. How is that? I thought our possessions made us moral?
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
How can you consistently be so brazen? YOU posted pictures of people with Downs as an insult. YOU equate being uneducated with being 'retarded.' YOU thought hanging homosexuals was funny.
So you think somehow that Kaiser is going to blindly support someone merely based on party loyalty? Seems fairly reckless for a good businessman, to support someone who would cause the economy to tank.
Yup. We got telebishons. We got aercondishunning. We got hours, screu yew.
As usual your style of argument is to deflect your own ignorance of issues by saying CF, IP, and myself are meanies. Drop the personal attacks and 2nd grade humor and you would cease to be the butt of so many forum jokes. Or would you rather to continue your rabid personal obsession with other members on this forum and get another topic locked out?
Try responding to topical issues, not personal issues with other posters for once. This is the last I care to indulge your personal crusade against myself.
Not being in Mr. Kaiser's inner-circle, it's pretty much up for conjecture for any of us to speculate as to what Obama was doing at Kaiser's house. Since you brought up Kaiser and UHC, please address the issue.
Care to comment on how much Mr. Kaiser's bottom line would improve if he could shift the cost of health care to a payroll tax on the backs of working schmoes instead of an employer-sponsored benefit?
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Originally posted by Conan71waaaahhhh waahhhhh wwwwwaaaahhhh!
You can dish it out but cannot take it.
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Originally posted by tim huntzinger
I just want to see you really screw up so I can go to the Bar Association. . . . who think they are so much better than others for no good reason.
A new one, my list is incomplete.
7) Vain threats over the internet.
I think that is a new low.
Furthermore, most people think they are better than you and have a good reason for it. Namely, the ability to reason, think cognitively, and write coherently. And we are not tag teaming you, we are being berated on your merits (or lack thereof).
Here he comes, the man who knows all! He who determines the fate of the unborn, who waxes at ease on the economy, a true renaissance man descended from on high to guide his wayward flock!
O Prophet, speak, and I shall hear! O Divine Light of Reason, show me the way and I shall not depart!
Just so you know there are no hard feelings, Tim, I brought you back something from lunch:
(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/200334/2/istockphoto_200334_pile_of_****.jpg)
I have shown you the way. You have but listen and receive the word and though shalt be saved.
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Originally posted by Conan71
Just so you know there are no hard feelings, Tim, I brought you back something from lunch:
(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/200334/2/istockphoto_200334_pile_of_****.jpg)
A self-portrait? You look better than i thought . . .
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Originally posted by tim huntzinger
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Originally posted by Conan71
Just so you know there are no hard feelings, Tim, I brought you back something from lunch:
(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/200334/2/istockphoto_200334_pile_of_****.jpg)
A self-portrait? You look better than i thought . . .
Thank you sir, it was actually a bad hair day.