The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

What are the accepted borders of Brookside?  This file:

http://www.neighborhoodtulsa.com/brookside/newsblog/uploads/brooksideboundaries.pdf

shows the borders to be the river on the west, 31st on the north, Lewis on the east, and 51st on the south.  Is this accurate?  I'm in the process of moving to Tulsa, in fact in the area surrounded by the dotted line in this file and I want to know if saying "I live in Brookside" is an accurate statement or not.

(http://www.applepics.com/11/blandbridenstine/123/brookside1.JPG)

http://www.cityoftulsa.org/Community/Revitalization/documents/OverallDesignPolicies.pdf

Here, you will find a section of the City of Tulsa's Brookside Plan.  Page 2 outlines the 'Brookside Neighborhood' boundaries.  

http://www.cityoftulsa.org/Community/Revitalization/Brookside.asp

This link takes you to the plan.  Enjoy reading your neighborhood's plan.  Become an advocate and active in making your hood great.  Welcome to T-town!

Ok, time to gripe.  Why didn't they follow their own guidelines for crosswalks and sidewalks? They did all that work tearing up the streets and sidewalks and basically made a mess.

The streets on brookside are narrow. So are the sidewalks.  When something is small and narrow you don't busy it up with multicolored patterns. This will only make the sidewalks and crosswalks appear more narrow and busy. If they had been one color it would have helped to make them look larger and visually soothing, not cluttery.  

Plus why on earth did they use white and blackish colors on grey blacktop?  The white will get dirty the black isnt that black and now, as would be expected, the crosswalks are fading into the rest of the street. Which may be a good thing for they looked dorky anyway. The streets were so narrow that they could barely get the pattern to repeat and actually look like a pattern as it crosses the street. The whole thing has a rinky dink, we tried but didn't pull it off look.

I know what happened, this happens all the time.  Someone drew up something on paper and it looked all crisp and nice in the drawings.  But nobody had the sense to imagine what it was going to look like in real life. Plus it couln't have been designed by a professional, it was most likely designed my amateurs who don't know any better.

I run into clients and people all the time who have an idea in their mind of something that they think will look nice, but won't.  I respect my clients wishes but I would either do some sort of creative compromise that would get it to work or just "speak truth to power" hold my ground and explain to them why they are wrong.

Again, it may have looked good on paper, but you have to be able to see past the fancy drawings that can fool ya (course it would never fool a wise old artist[8D]) and see how its going to pan out in reality. The street is busy as it is, you didnt need to busy up the sidewalks and crosswalks.  Instead of working to make them look wider and be visual "points of rest" they are cluttery, ill designed messes. Those crosswalks in Brookside were an unfortunate waste of time and money. So sad.

Ok rant over. [:)]  

Oh, and welcome to Brookside, its a great area to live despite the crosswalks. [:D]

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Originally posted by TheArtist

Ok, time to gripe.  Why didn't they follow their own guidelines for crosswalks and sidewalks? They did all that work tearing up the streets and sidewalks and basically made a mess.

The streets on brookside are narrow. So are the sidewalks.  When something is small and narrow you don't busy it up with multicolored patterns. This will only make the sidewalks and crosswalks appear more narrow and busy. If they had been one color it would have helped to make them look larger and visually soothing, not cluttery.  

blah blah blah

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And you like the design of the Central Park monstrosity?

I do like the Central Park design. It kind of meanders along the water and gives plenty of places to stop, sit and enjoy the views.

What don't you like about the design?

I like the central park design. I'm not a condo kinda guy myself but it's still nice. It can look out of place but that is just because is is new and the beginning of a whole area.

I don't know why brookside has borders but doesn't enforce them. Countless South Tulsans just "walk right in" every day.

Central Park or Centennial Park.  I like the design of both but the Central Park has not been built yet.  I bet that in time Centennial Park will be more beautiful than Woodward.  Plus can you show me a better looking water retention pond?

It looks too unnatural.  Woodward looks like a gently unfolding prize, Whatever looks like a first grader got happy stacking rocks.  Woodward has water seeping from the hillside, Whatever has gutter water to stop and reflect upon.  Woodward is surrounded by arterial streets, Whatever has 444 roaring overhead.

My concern with Bside's new curbs and brickwork is that the brickwork shows signs of not handling Peoria traffic very well.  Fixating on the design just struck me as odd.

Of course, some in this crowd think Bumgardner's beast near Utica looks good.

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Originally posted by tim huntzinger
My concern with Bside's new curbs and brickwork is that the brickwork shows signs of not handling Peoria traffic very well.  Fixating on the design just struck me as odd.

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That should come as no surprise considering how concrete and asphalt don't handle Tulsa's traffic very well. [V]

Sometimes I wonder if there is a roving gang of half-tracks that prowl the streets in the middle of the night.

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Originally posted by tim huntzinger

It looks too unnatural.  Woodward looks like a gently unfolding prize, Whatever looks like a first grader got happy stacking rocks.  Woodward has water seeping from the hillside, Whatever has gutter water to stop and reflect upon.  Woodward is surrounded by arterial streets, Whatever has 444 roaring overhead.

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They can't build a gentle flowing flat park when it is a deep water retention area with no established trees.

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Originally posted by tim huntzinger


Of course, some in this crowd think Bumgardner's beast near Utica looks good.

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It rates above a parking lot.

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Originally posted by sgrizzle

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They can't build a gentle flowing flat park when it is a deep water retention area with no established trees.

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Fair enough, but Promenade's remodel on the corner looks better than Whatever Park.  Whatever Park is like the Scrappy Doo years of Scooby Doo when compared to Woodward.

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It rates above a parking lot.

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Barely!  Someone went Tuscan crazy.  The monster is on par with the Jetson's tower and Oral's ministry HQ on Boulder.

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Originally posted by tim huntzinger

It looks too unnatural.  Woodward looks like a gently unfolding prize, Whatever looks like a first grader got happy stacking rocks.  Woodward has water seeping from the hillside, Whatever has gutter water to stop and reflect upon.  Woodward is surrounded by arterial streets, Whatever has 444 roaring overhead.

My concern with Bside's new curbs and brickwork is that the brickwork shows signs of not handling Peoria traffic very well.  Fixating on the design just struck me as odd.

Of course, some in this crowd think Bumgardner's beast near Utica looks good.

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Remember Centennial Park was going to be turned into just another water retention pond, but they decided to make it one that looked like a park. Digging deep enabled the Centennial Center to be placed on the property and for some flat areas around the East and South sides versus having a large more shallow depression that took up the whole space for flooding.  However digging deep required more steep walls, this city very well could have made those retaining walls out of cement but they took the much more expensive route and went with the large stones.

  If you walk around the park and visualize how it will look after the small trees and plants will look in 30 years or so you will find that it too will "gently unfold".  Some of the views you see now will become blocked for a time, then as the trees get even larger you will be able to see under them and around them to other views. I think someday the view looking west with the bridge in the foreground and the skyline in the background all framed in with fully grown trees, will be stunning. I also like the steep walls, helps to give depth and drama to the park.  Its neat being down in there and looking up at the skyline or walking around the edge looking across that space.

I certainly like Woodward park and its more natural design.  But I also like Centennial Park and its design as well.  I would rather them be different than the same.  Gives you more variety to appreciate.

One supposes they could have used cinder blocks, too.  But then one may have used concrete forms, as well. As the centerpiece of 'urban renewal' Whatever Park fails the sniff test for sustainability, need, and design.  I am sure over time it will indeed look much different, say like the Crow Creek side of Zink Park.

What is with Tulsans and over-the-top planning? The megalomanical Channels, Bumgardner's Tuscan-on-steroids, ORU, The American, The Golden Driller, The A-reem-a?  Do Tulsans overcompensate for its plainness with their stuff?

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Originally posted by tim huntzinger

One supposes they could have used cinder blocks, too.  But then one may have used concrete forms, as well. As the centerpiece of 'urban renewal' Whatever Park fails the sniff test for sustainability, need, and design.  I am sure over time it will indeed look much different, say like the Crow Creek side of Zink Park.

What is with Tulsans and over-the-top planning? The megalomanical Channels, Bumgardner's Tuscan-on-steroids, ORU, The American, The Golden Driller, The A-reem-a?  Do Tulsans overcompensate for its plainness with their stuff?

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Psh, if you think thats over the top, just go down the road to Dallas or up the road to KC, and take a gander. You will find Tuscan on mega steroids, French on mega steroids, Colonial on mega steroids, etc. Bigger A-reem-a's, but imo not as classy looking.

 However I am not sure anyone has anything comparable to the Golden Driller lol, that wasn't made to be "overcompensation" They used to make a new one every time they had an International Petroleum Exhibition.  They finally just left that one. They were supposed to have my gannies nekkid statue put there.

 
I find it interesting how on the one hand somebody (we wont mention any names) makes fun of how lousily planned the Centennial Park is then on the other make fun of Tulsans "over-the-top planning".  We can't win for losing can we lol?
As for the centennial park being a "centerpiece for urban renewal" I don't think anyone would call it that.  Its a water retention pond doing double duty as a park.  However once they get all 3 ponds and the canal, then I think you will see the beginnings of another nice area connecting Utica, TU and Downtown, one that will be just as nice as... Brookside.  (notice how I cleverly segued back on topic)[8D]

Here is something of interest, ARTEEST, from 'Urban Tulsa Weakly' Insider's Guide.  Tell me if you can guess what development is being described: 'Downtown's newest residential addition.  Brownstones and town homes that are built to last and to bring a community together.  Complete with your own pond and walking path.' (emph mine, p.42, Spr. Ed.)

Any guesses?

Bad news: Brookside brickwork is developing a nasty lip where the bricks meet the tar.  Good news: Hughes' latest addition looks like it is going to be painted white, hiding the nasty cheap bricks they are made with.

Where is Hughes latetest addition.....

I thought there was no actual brick in Peoria on Brookside.  Isn't it painted, stamped asphalt, like they do everywhere now when they do streetscaping?  It's what they used on Clark Street in Chicago when I lived there, and I'm pretty sure the last time I was in Tulsa I saw them doing the stamping on Peoria.

Tim, sorry, but you're wrong about the bricks developing a lip.  There aren't any, so they can't.

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Originally posted by Floyd

I thought there was no actual brick in Peoria on Brookside.  Isn't it painted, stamped asphalt, like they do everywhere now when they do streetscaping?  It's what they used on Clark Street in Chicago when I lived there, and I'm pretty sure the last time I was in Tulsa I saw them doing the stamping on Peoria.

Tim, sorry, but you're wrong about the bricks developing a lip.  There aren't any, so they can't.

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The cross walks are brick pavers....

Oooold news. http://www.tulsatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=472&Itemid=2
http://www.thevillagebuilders.com/story.htm

Unless your going to suprise me with something else?[:)]

As for the "Huhges bricks". When I noticed they were laying the fist few bricks I wondered if they were going to paint them and thought... Hope they aren't spending a lot of money on those since they are going to paint over it all to match the rest.

The bricks are backyard patio pavers.
The white brick building is Aberson's project.
The neighborhood assoc. borders are 31-51. riverside -lewis, but if you live past utica your house is worth too much to be considered "brookside"

My bad, I thought the new buildings were Hughes projects.  At least they are not stuccoed.