The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

I just had a meeting with a possible client for a large Casino job.  I would be doing the murals on canvas and then shipping them to the site.  But I need to find out where and how much it would cost to rent a space in order to give a complete quote.

I would need a space with at least 10' ceilings prefferably 12' or higher and at least one unobstructed wall 20' long. That would be about the size of a single mural segment.

This would be the largest mural job I have ever gotten if I get it. The building is to be a quarter of a mile long and I will be doing 5 large ceiling murals that are "octagonal domes". The larger of the 5 will be 48' across the smaller 4 will be 30' across.  

I did a calculation of the amount of canvas I will need and it came to about 750 linear feet of 12' tall canvas. It will cost around 18,000 dollars just for that. Yikes!  I have done some big murals but this project is startlingly large even for me.

And I will have about 10 months to do it all in.

Any info and advice on any available spaces
would be very welcome.

I had an idea....PM sent.
Good luck!

You didn't mention one other piece of the requirement - A BIG DOOR!

Hope you get the contract.

Yes, the door will be an issue. I assume climate control could come into play as well.

the 41st/51st mingo-sheridan area has a ton of industrial spaces that rent fairly cheap. They are all warehouse strip malls pretty much.

Artist, I have some space available, I will PM you.

Actually I won't have to worry about the door.  The canvas will be on rolls and can be rolled back up when I am done painting each one.

Ok, after checking out prices and locations I am starting to lean towards the idea of having one of those large sheds you get at Home Depot, put up in my backyard.  Most rents for about a year will run me around 6,000.  A really nice shed that I can make into a little artists studio in my backyard, and its a huuuge yard, would cost around 8,000 set up included. And I have always wanted one anyway.

How would I find out about neighborhood ordinances?

Who would I need to call city wise to get a permit?

Do I need an inspector if I have an electrician put in a couple of outlets and a light?  Would also like a sink so I can clean brushes.

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Originally posted by TheArtist

Ok, after checking out prices and locations I am starting to lean towards the idea of having one of those large sheds you get at Home Depot, put up in my backyard.  Most rents for about a year will run me around 6,000.  A really nice shed that I can make into a little artists studio in my backyard, and its a huuuge yard, would cost around 8,000 set up included. And I have always wanted one anyway.

How would I find out about neighborhood ordinances?

Who would I need to call city wise to get a permit?

Do I need an inspector if I have an electrician put in a couple of outlets and a light?  Would also like a sink so I can clean brushes.

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Likely the best place to start would be the COT construction licenses and permits dept. at 111 N. Greenwood.  596-9601.  If that isn't the right place, I'm sure you can get steered in the right direction.

Which sheds are you talking about?  The big barn-shaped ones?  Should be simple enough, I believe they use a cinder block foundation.  Now adding electric to code and plumbing will wind up probably tacking on another $3K or so to the project- just a guess.

You could always run an extension cord to the shed and install a surge strip on a wall and wire using cords from there.  Somewhat clumsy, but it'll work.  You can always buy one of those mop sinks at HD or Lowe's, run a hose to it or to some PVC and use conventional faucets.  There's a number of ways to do it.  

Join us for lunch at Napoli's tomorrow and we can discuss it.  I've got far too many ideas to put into a workable forum post without some smart-A calling me a know-it-all. [;)]

quote:

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Originally posted by TheArtist

Ok, after checking out prices and locations I am starting to lean towards the idea of having one of those large sheds you get at Home Depot, put up in my backyard.  Most rents for about a year will run me around 6,000.  A really nice shed that I can make into a little artists studio in my backyard, and its a huuuge yard, would cost around 8,000 set up included. And I have always wanted one anyway.

How would I find out about neighborhood ordinances?

Who would I need to call city wise to get a permit?

Do I need an inspector if I have an electrician put in a couple of outlets and a light?  Would also like a sink so I can clean brushes.

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There are maximum square footages and heights for accessory buildings.  The square footages generally are a percentage of the footprint of the primary dwelling.

My only thought is that those things generally get reallllllllllllllly hot in the summer.  Are you going to air condition it? [}:)]

Yes I want to get one of the 16x20 barn type buildings with the 16' vaulted ceilings. I will insulate and sheetrock the interior and definitely install an air conditioning unit.[8D]  I stepped inside the one they have displayed at the Home Depot on 41st and Sheridan.  They seem very sturdy and I really like having a high open space like that to work in.  I will probably make it look like a little cottage with a porch, window over the french doors with shutters, flower boxes, little rustic fence and some roses, a bird bath. etc, etc.  It will be so cute you will puke lol.  [:P]

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Originally posted by Conan71

quote:

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Originally posted by TheArtist

Ok, after checking out prices and locations I am starting to lean towards the idea of having one of those large sheds you get at Home Depot, put up in my backyard.  Most rents for about a year will run me around 6,000.  A really nice shed that I can make into a little artists studio in my backyard, and its a huuuge yard, would cost around 8,000 set up included. And I have always wanted one anyway.

How would I find out about neighborhood ordinances?

Who would I need to call city wise to get a permit?

Do I need an inspector if I have an electrician put in a couple of outlets and a light?  Would also like a sink so I can clean brushes.

---

Likely the best place to start would be the COT construction licenses and permits dept. at 111 N. Greenwood.  596-9601.  If that isn't the right place, I'm sure you can get steered in the right direction.

Which sheds are you talking about?  The big barn-shaped ones?  Should be simple enough, I believe they use a cinder block foundation.  Now adding electric to code and plumbing will wind up probably tacking on another $3K or so to the project- just a guess.

You could always run an extension cord to the shed and install a surge strip on a wall and wire using cords from there.  Somewhat clumsy, but it'll work.  You can always buy one of those mop sinks at HD or Lowe's, run a hose to it or to some PVC and use conventional faucets.  There's a number of ways to do it.  

Join us for lunch at Napoli's tomorrow and we can discuss it.  I've got far too many ideas to put into a workable forum post without some smart-A calling me a know-it-all. [;)]

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KNOW-IT-ALL! KNOW-IT-ALL! [^]

I know of a place that rents rehersal space to bands that may be of help;  The Complex Music School and Rehersal Studio at 8600 S Lewis - I believe their number is 518-6260.

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Originally posted by Lister

KNOW-IT-ALL! KNOW-IT-ALL! [^]

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NOOBIE! NOOBIE! [;)]

Yeah, I'm just a regular Cliff Claybon (sp?)...

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/Cheers_cliff.jpg)
Cliff Clavin

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Originally posted by TheArtist

Yes I want to get one of the 16x20 barn type buildings with the 16' vaulted ceilings. I will insulate and sheetrock the interior and definitely install an air conditioning unit.[8D]  I stepped inside the one they have displayed at the Home Depot on 41st and Sheridan.  They seem very sturdy and I really like having a high open space like that to work in.  I will probably make it look like a little cottage with a porch, window over the french doors with shutters, flower boxes, little rustic fence and some roses, a bird bath. etc, etc.  It will be so cute you will puke lol.  [:P]

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From this post you may want to check your zoning.

You just may want to price out the permits cost, licensed electrician fees, and I assume you are talking a slab o' concrete.... underneath..

The finished product could very well cost more than you are thinking at present.
Michael Sager has a lot of vacant property Downtown.. he has been known, in the past, to help an artist or two.

Well I asked them at Home Depot what I should put it on.  They said what is usually done is a layer of gravel is put down and perhaps some cement blocks on top of that then the building is placed on it.  I would like to have something more substantial than that though.  Will price a slab or having a cement block foundation. (If anyone knows who would be good to do that let me know)

I called the number Conan gave me (thanks btw) and they said if its 200sq ft or less then its an easy matter. But if its 200sq ft or more then you will need to get permits and such.  They said I will need to bring 2 copies of the site plan. and 2 copies of the buildings plans, and fill out a building permit app.

I am going to call "Call Okie" tomorrow and have them come out and flag where things are so I will not put my building over something it shouldn't be over.  

As for price.  The base price for the building I am looking at will be around 7 or 8 thousand depending on the options and size.  I asked for 4,000 to be budgeted to rent a studio for 10 months and anything over that I would catch from my part.  

I found a couple places around the 41st- 51st and Mingo and around that area that were in my price range.  But that area is so depressing to look at I don't think it would be at all inspiring to go work there every day for about a year.  I think it would kill me. If I were working working like I did when I was at UPS, thats fine.  But when your painting artwork and its going to be a stressful amount and they are expecting high quality.  I need to be in a "good place" mentally.

There were a couple places in the National Bank building downtown, beautiful building, but would be a bit of a drive every day. The rooms that were in my budget were too cramped, the room that was juuust large enough would have been close to 600 a month, then add parking and gas on that for 3 people... paying 5 thou out of my own pocket on top of the 4thou they are budgeting me for a studio, which would be mine for keeps, starts sounding like not such a bad idea. The other thing I didnt like about any of the places I have seen are the standard height ceilings, again too depressing and confining, the "sudio/storage building" I would be buying would have 16' ceilings and I would put some windows up high for light. A space like that would feel much better to be in.

I have tried and tried to get ahold of the Kanbar properties leasing people, but to no avail.  I call and call and they are never there. I will try and see if I can get ahold of Sager though. Might as well check out what options I can. I may not be able to get the storage building up in time or within my budget.

Sager's office is on the south side of first street just west of Elgin.  He's an easy guy to talk to, just drop in and explain what you are looking for.

However, if you can get one client to basically pay for one third to half the cost of your "own" building, that is less overhead you would have in the future if you have other projects.

You might also want to check with other local "portable building" contractors to see what they have to offer.  I'm just guessing that HD uses local contractors to set the building up and you know HD is getting a cut.  You might save a little and help out a local guy at the same time.  Just make sure it's someone who has been around a long time, re: the crooked contractor thread.

That's just me though, I've worked in sales long enough, I'm used to "I need to get three bids". [:D]

FWIW - We had Better Bilt Buildings (local guy)  build use an 8x10 building and we've been very pleased with it. Reasonable price (can't remember exact amount) and one guy came out and knocked it out in one day. It's sitting on cinder type blocks. Give them a call and see what they can do - I'd say they are likely better than the HD or Lowes ones.

http://www.betterbiltbuildings.com/

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Originally posted by tulsacyclist

FWIW - We had Better Bilt Buildings (local guy)  build use an 8x10 building and we've been very pleased with it. Reasonable price (can't remember exact amount) and one guy came out and knocked it out in one day. It's sitting on cinder type blocks. Give them a call and see what they can do - I'd say they are likely better than the HD or Lowes ones.

http://www.betterbiltbuildings.com/

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Thank you, Thank you. Just talked to the guy on the phone and checked out their website.  Their base prices are less, plus the materials they use are better quality.  Plus he said they will help me with the permitting process and they can also do whatever type of foundation I want. Eeexcellent.[8D]

I am going to meet with them tomorrow.  Here is the type of building I am thinking of getting as a 26x24.

(http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4193/building13largefa1.jpg)

Cool!  It even comes with Xmas lights!  BONUS!!!!! [;)]

It's good to hear from someone who has used Better Bilt. I talked to them just last week about a new garage with office space.

Artist, keep us posted on how it goes and if you use them!

Good to hear. Like I said, I am very pleased with my building and like you, was more impressed with their buildings and materials over what you'd find at Lowes or HD.

[:P]

Ok, I have been hesitant to post an update on my studio situation because it has not been good. But here goes.

If you remember back we had quite a rainy spell. So things did not get started until way after I had wanted. Though there seemed to be plenty of times when the foundation could have been poured, it took forever.

Then it wasnt done correctly. It was very uneven. I didnt complain, just figured I was going to go with that "old world" stained concrete look anyway so no big deal. However... they did not set any anchor bolts to hold the structure in place on top of the foundation. But again, I thought no big deal. Now that I am in the place the uneven spots allow the rain to seep in along the edges and when sweeping the floor some of the "patches" they used to try and even out the worst spots are crumbly, found part of the paper bag that the cement mix was in protruding through the cement. Part of the foundation sticks out past the wall of the building so that when the rain hits the wall, it runs down, hits the foundation, then flows into the building. I can fix that with some flashing.

And that is just the foundation...

I drew up sketches and made notes etc. to make sure they knew I wanted a 2 story building, 2/3ds open all the way up, the other 3rd loft space towards the back. The unit is 16x20 and they used 2x6 to span the floor of the loft. Kind of a bouncy floor and not suitable. But I was under a lot of time constraints to get the thing done and again, figured it was no big deal I could double up the beams later. Then I looked out one day and realized they had put on the wrong roof. You could not have stood up at all in the loft area. I did make them take that off and start over. However the roof they did put on was uneven. I never really knew when they would show up, they said they would be there then didnt show. I would call and not get anyone, etc.  

After they were "done" with the shell I was quite frustrated and didnt want to have anything to do with Better Bilt so hired some other people to do the insulation, sheetrock and electrical. When I started to look around thinking I might do the sheetrock myself even. I noticed that they had not done the corners of the building right. There was no way to hang sheetrock in many areas because there werent studs placed properly to do so, like double studs in the corner and along the ceiling/roofline. You could also see gaps in the outer siding where the siding and the walls didnt meet up right. The door was horribly crooked and not put in correctly.  And I coud go on but thats enough.

It was a constant challenge of, what can I live with because I am on a time schedule and fix later, and what has to be fixed now. It still took longer in the end than it should have, and I know things like this do take longer, but this was absurd on many levels.

I got a person to come and give me an estimate on the sheetrock and he asked me where the building permit sticker was... I said. Well I was told that I had a building permit. I even remember writing a check specifically for that and annotating it for the building permit. I called the city and they had no permit for a building on my property.

I called Better Bilt and he said he was trying to get things done since I was on a tight schedule. I said, yes I am in a hurry, but I wanted things done legally. He said he would take care of it. By this time I wasnt going to wait on him or going to trust that he would do things right. I went down and got the information for what I would need to present. Luckily I was a drafting design and engineering student at Tulsa Vo Tech during my high school years and could draw up ,foundation and floor plans etc. Finally got that cleared up several weeks later. Boy was I crossing my fingers hoping it got approved and was in a location where it could be permitted lol.

I do want to say that I used Guidry Electric and they were great. Always answered the phone, came out when they said they were, had detailed contracts, and did a great job. Then there was the hassle with PSO and getting them out, those people were about to piss me off lol. I had the electrician do their first part before the sheetrock in August. PSO came and put an inspecion sticker on the meter box that is dated last of August.  By the time the electrician showed back up to hang the lights and finish the electrical work after the sheetrock guy had finished, it was late September but PSO had still not connected the building to the grid. We called them and they gave us the run around saying there was no record of an inspection or request for service hook up. They said someone would come out within 6 days to hook it up, that most likely it would be sooner. I complained that it should have been done a month ago. They said there was nothing they could do about it and that they had no record. So I waited but by this time my "boss" for the large mural project was saying he was coming into town to inspect our progress. I needed to be in there.  I had called several times during the week to see where things were and then on the 6th day I called and they said again, that they would be there sometime that week. I am sorry, but I lost it. I went off, and gosh they were stubborn. I wanted to talk to a manager or someone in charge, they said "They" dont talk to people. I asked where they were located, they said they didnt give out that info. I continued to yell and they argued back. They kept saying "Someone will be out there this week" I said, you said that the week before and it wasnt true and I HAVE to be in there! etc. etc. Finally I got really irate. Needless to say someone showed up within the hour and got my electricity hooked up. [:(!]    

I still have things that need to be done "no trim around the arched parts of the windows outside, the flashing around the foundation" outside needs to be painted,some inside trimwork etc. But at least I got in ther this last week. Fiiiinally

I was told the foundation and shell would take about a week to 2 weeks max plus about a week or two for sheetrock and electrical.   Riiiiight.

What, that's horrible.  Did you call Built it Better (or whatever) and ***** them out?  You should invite the manager/owner out and ask them if this is how he runs the company.  Often, a small business owner NEEDS to know how bad his company has performed.

On the plus side, all the bad Karma should be out of the way and it should be smooth sailing from here on out!