The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=128739

Could care less about the restaurant myself, glad it's coming to Tulsa, but the location could be much better.

Call me when the casino's here have table games that aren't pay to play.  Until then, Kansas City, Tunica, and Vegas will be getting my money.  

Stupid state laws.  And stupid not having a casino district somewhere.  Stupid.

Could someone please explain why the tables here are "pay to play?"  

I went to a casino not too long ago and was amazed when I was told that I was charged an ante just to play Blackjack.  Under the normal odds charts, the house has a 4 to 1 advantage in Blackjack to begin with (assuming a 1, 2, 4 or 6 deck she, and playing by standrard rules).

With this in mind, what is the point of the ante.  (Besides greed, I mean.)

From my understanding, it is greed only.

I heard at least one casino nearby doesn't require an ante.

When I asked at the casino I was told some BS about the money going to the schools.  Looking on the net I see the Creeks explain it as follows:

quote:

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An ante is required to play before each hand is dealt. This fee is collected by Creek Nation Casino to host non-house backed table games in Oklahoma. Monies collected to create a players pool are disseminated back to the players via promotional prizes. Place your bet by placing chips in the circles directly in front of your seat.

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The  Firelake Casino runs "No Ante" promotions, so I assume ante is not required by law.
http://www.firelakegrand.com/promos_events.php?id=146

I asked one time, THE one time I went to Cherokee about the Ante and they said some BS about it going to schools.  I called them just now to ask again and was transfered to 'blackjack.'  When I asked about the ante I was put on hold and then transfered to voice mail.

I've also *heard* that the gaming compact does not allow the house to make money off of table games, all the money the MAKE off of blackjack is taxed at 100%.  So they collect an ante as their profit on the game.

When are people in Oklahoma going to realize that more money is lost on slot machines than on sports betting and all table games combined?  Tables provide decent odds and slow down the pace of losing your money.  They make gambling entertainment instead of just button pushing (no form of gambling makes it a money making venture, for the VAST majority of people anyway).

If anyone has the real scoop on the ANTE, I would love it hear it (and see the source).

Ok, I looked into it:

"Non-house banked cardgames" receive different treatment than house banked games.  Ie, normal blackjack is treated differently than poker between players.  Under federal guidelines the "ante up" method is considered class-II gaming and thus far less restrictive measures are placed on it.  Essentially, the tribes get to regulate it themselves after approval.

http://www.nigc.gov/Portals/0/NIGC%20Uploads/classiigmeclasfnstds/arpc2cregs/anlysgrpecomcimptdoc.pdf

The revenue structure is also different:
http://www.osf.state.ok.us/bud05-4.pdf

I dont have a clear picture... but apparently there is more to it than greed.  Well, certainly greed plays in, but at the tribal AND state level.  

I just want to donate a few hundred $$$ to the tribe every year, is that so bad?

I have a real clear picture of it:

The house always wins.

It's a rare event for me to hand over my money at a casino.  I'd rather invest it wisely in tobacco & alcohol. [}:)]

The ante was just a lie from the tribes. They said that it was required by the state. I have played blackjack in 20 states and Oklahoma was the only one where they tried to charge me an ante. I just refuse to play a game where the house isn't satisfied with a game in their favor and charges you to pay extra to play.

The casino just north of downtown has stopped collecting antes on Sunday, Monday and Wednesdays. I haven't played there, but I called the casino to verify the information.