The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

I attended a meeting downtown Tulsa from 10:00 am until appx 3:30 pm,
I didnt eat lunch so I thought in the interest of "old times," I would have lunch at Coney I-Land in the street level of the old Down-Towner hotel, on Cheyenne.  3

2 Cheese, No Onions, to go.............

My scientific observation is this:
64 feet from the rear of my vehicle to the entranace of Coney I-Land, measured by measuring tape at 3:45 pm.
Purchased 2 coneys, with cheese, no onions.

Accosted by 2 homeless persons, one on the way into the establishment, one immediately upon exit.

At no other Coney I-Lander establishment in Tulsa have I had to fend off homeless folk.

Does this say something about Downtown?

Kitty?  Kitty?

Newsflash:
There are homeless people in downtown Tulsa.  And downtown Oklahoma City.  And downtown New York City.  And downtown Los Angeles.  And downtown Chicago.  And downtown Houston.  And downtown Philadelphia.  And downtown Phoenix.  And downtown San Antonio.  And downtown San Diego.  And downtown Dallas.  And downtown Charlotte.  And downtown Austin.  

All it says about Downtown is that it's a downtown.  

Next thread?

Downtown versus the suburbs.  Hmmm, how many homeless shelters are there in the suburbs?  How many Halfway houses? (I usually hear about them raising heck if anything like that comes near them) How many soup kitchens in the suburbs?

In other words... How many good Christian people are shouldering their share of societal responsibility?

You don't think a single  abused, sick, drug addicted, out of luck, person ever comes from the suburbs?  Your wrong, the are just as likely to come from there.

Go ahead run back to your suburban churches and neighborhoods. The churches downtown and people of Tulsa will reach out to feed, clothe, shelter, and help these people. We and our families will steadfastly bear our share, and yours, of this responsibility so that you and your families won't have to face it.

Every society has them, that includes the suburbs. They being here and not there, doesn't show how bad the people of Tulsa are, it shows how good we are. Remember that when your knocking on the pearly gates to the CITY of God, last time I checked it sure wasn't the Suburb of God. Perhaps there is a reason for that.

Sorry my fault.  I wont go downtown again.  I hope that makes you happy.

quote:

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Originally posted by Aa5drvr

I attended a meeting downtown Tulsa from 10:00 am until appx 3:30 pm,
I didnt eat lunch so I thought in the interest of "old times," I would have lunch at Coney I-Land in the street level of the old Down-Towner hotel, on Cheyenne.  3

2 Cheese, No Onions, to go.............

My scientific observation is this:
64 feet from the rear of my vehicle to the entranace of Coney I-Land, measured by measuring tape at 3:45 pm.
Purchased 2 coneys, with cheese, no onions.

Accosted by 2 homeless persons, one on the way into the establishment, one immediately upon exit.

At no other Coney I-Lander establishment in Tulsa have I had to fend off homeless folk.

Does this say something about Downtown?

Kitty?  Kitty?

---

I worked downtown for six years and was asked for money under 10 times total. Your story doesn't ring true.

quote:

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Originally posted by Aa5drvr

I attended a meeting downtown Tulsa from 10:00 am until appx 3:30 pm,
I didnt eat lunch so I thought in the interest of "old times," I would have lunch at Coney I-Land in the street level of the old Down-Towner hotel, on Cheyenne.  3

2 Cheese, No Onions, to go.............

My scientific observation is this:
64 feet from the rear of my vehicle to the entranace of Coney I-Land, measured by measuring tape at 3:45 pm.
Purchased 2 coneys, with cheese, no onions.

Accosted by 2 homeless persons, one on the way into the establishment, one immediately upon exit.

At no other Coney I-Lander establishment in Tulsa have I had to fend off homeless folk.

Does this say something about Downtown?

Kitty?  Kitty?

---

It says very little about downtown that most people didn't already know. Tell the Coney Island mgr. that you don't appreciate being hit on near his door and he'll probably run them off.  Been dealing with bums all over the city for years. The ones downtown are less sophisticated than the ones in the burbs but no less annoying.

I liked the homeless gy on 71st yesterday with a digital camera..

the fact that you referred to it as "Coney I-Land" and "no other Coney I-Lander establishment"... makes me sad for you...
it is THE Coney Island...

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Originally posted by sgrizzle

I liked the homeless gy on 71st yesterday with a digital camera..

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Biker Fox scares me a lot more than any homeless person

There are many of these types at the Warehouse Markets, Albertsons, Quiktrips and around town in various locations.  

I always ask them for $5 bucks before they have a chance to ask me for anything. Throws them off and they stumble to respond allowing you time to retreat to the safety of your vehicle while they attempt to focus in on their next victim.  

When a person gives the ones near the grocery stores cash, they typically turn it into a fresh bottle of Listerene which they chug down quickly on the side of the building.  

I would rather not be be confronted by a straight up person asking for money, but it seems to be better than having to deal with the petty thief stealing items from ones vehicle or taking tools and equipment out of our trucks.

I find this thread insulting and repulsive on so many levels that all I can say is:  Tulsa's homeless aren't just downtown.  Homeless does not equal bad.  Suburban does not equal good.

I'd really like to see such an upstanding suburbanite get treated like trash and see how it feels to have everyone treat them as though they are the problem (which, suburbs typically are problems to larger cities anyway, but that's another point).

Homeless people aren't bad; the causes of homelessness are.

*Disclaimer: I'm not saying that all homeless people are honest nor that all suburbanites are bad...*

quote:

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Originally posted by Floyd

Newsflash:
There are homeless people in downtown Tulsa.  And downtown Oklahoma City.  And downtown New York City.  And downtown Los Angeles.  And downtown Chicago.  And downtown Houston.  And downtown Philadelphia.  And downtown Phoenix.  And downtown San Antonio.  And downtown San Diego.  And downtown Dallas.  And downtown Charlotte.  And downtown Austin.  

All it says about Downtown is that it's a downtown.  

Next thread?

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You'd have a field day dealing with the homeless (pre-Katrina) of New Orleans. Now those homeless dudes are downright aggressive. They don't just ask for money: they downright demand it.

This was back a few years when I lived there, but I remember how I was going to the Quarter for a bite to eat after work, and on Bourbon Street, this guy who had a little muscle on him came up in my path asking for a few bucks. Well, I figured, hey, I work, and there didn't seem anything keeping him from holding down a job, so I refused and walked around him. Next thing you know, he starts following beside me, playing the race card, and becoming a little more insistent that I give him a few bucks. That's when I went off on him; told him to get a job and leave me the (expletive deleted) alone. I walked off, and he cursed me in my wake. That late dinner was all the more enjoyable, because I knew that I worked for the money that bought it.

Not saying anything bad about loosing ones shirt.  If you don't get out of your comfort zone and take a risk, you will never know if you would of succeded or failed.   I  have been homeless a time or two, slept outdoors and on the floor.  And more than once was my fault.  However, one can bounce back from the bottom and continue to recover and move forward with their lives. The risk is the element of difference between existing and living in my minds eye, but that is my opinion of life.  

I can say I have been there done that, designed, printed and sold the Shirt, to many of life's pitfalls and successes.   You create your own destiny.  So I am not putting down folks that have hit on hard times.  The folks I describe are pro pan handlers and have been doing it for years.  Some I recall from the parking lot when it was Skaggs at 21st and Memorial.  It is not their first rodeo.  

Majority of the pro pan handlers around Tulsa can be found at a number of Quik Trips including the one at 145th and Admiral, Admiral and Harvard, Admiral and Delaware, 48th and Yale, 71st near Utica.  I have seen the same people at all these on different occasions using the same lines.  I have also seen people in Waco, Texas panhandling me at a Denny's, and a week later in Tulsa walking into one of our shops with the same exact story line!  They are always needing gas money or other money, trying to make it to XYZ for whatever sounds good that day.  Thus my asking for $5 bucks to make my rent payment for the month.  Dude, I am just 5 bucks shy of having it all, can you help me out?  Common, it is just 5 bucks....  

There are two men I constantly run onto and others on here have met them as well.  One has a large gray beard, they travel in a small older economy seems like a gray Toyota car.  The one that does the talking always approaches you with "Sir, please excuse me I am not a bum, I have a problem perhaps you can help us out.  We are trying to make it to XYZ town for a Options 1. Funeral of a relative, 2. Wedding, 3. Sick relative 4. Trying to make it back home from one of the above.  Last seen 5 days ago at Quiktrip Admiral & Harvard.

This man may be the salt of the Earth.  He seems kind and gentle, may be good hearted, honest as the day is long and most likely never has stolen a thing in his life.  I have nothing against him or his tactics.  However, I do grow weary of having to deal with him more than a few times per month.  If I remember him, I am sure he remembers me.  He reminds me of the older brother's character played in Rumble Fish The Motorcycle Boy.  We have had conversations regarding that on more than one occasion standing on the sidewalk at the Quiktrips around Tulsa.  

Actually that guy is pretty entertaining, the rum bums and Listerene junkies at the Warehouse Market are another story. Those folks need some serious medical and mental help. That is way beyond my ability to reach out and help them.  

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Originally posted by DScott28604
I'd really like to see such an upstanding suburbanite get treated like trash and see how it feels to have everyone treat them as though they are the problem
. . .
Homeless people aren't bad; the causes of homelessness are.

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Drug abuse, sloth, alcoholism, insanity...  yes, those thing are bad.  But none of them every pissed on my car when I was in the post office or asked me for $5 because they just got out of prison and need to get bus money to get home.  Those things never kept tourists or business away.

This is another one of those revolving topics.  Causes bad.  Some of the people bad.  No city has found a solution.  But in any event, having people peeing on buildings, passing out, and accosting passers by IS a problem.  To pretend it isn't is either wishful thinking or sheer ignorance.

Sounds like downtown has a full house.[|)]

I don’t know what you folks are talking about.  I work downtown and I’ve been to the Coney Island and walked around Civic Center and no one has panhandled me.  I do see the “homeless” walking from the Salvation Army to the City’s Day Center for the homeless.  And a number of homeless people gather in the public library, but they do their best to blend in.

Here’s some tips.  Don’t wear expensive jewelry.  Don’t have eye contact.  Look like you know where you are going.  Don’t stop when you are approached.  Say, “sorry, no” as you keep moving.

Now it takes all kinds, and I made the decision not to live in an upscale suburban setting because I feel uncomfortable around racial and political monotony.  I don’t feel comfortable in groups unless there is racial diversity and economic diversity.  I am drawn to settings like downtown.

There are many issues at play here.  One is a fine balancing act going on between freedom and control.  Americans tend to value freedom over control.  

On the other hand, it’s sinful for the Wealthiest nation on earth to stand by and watch as women, children and elderly bed down in the bushes next to the freeway or on the ledge of a highway underpass.

I also want to point out to the young folks out there that there were no significant numbers of homeless people in the United States during the Liberal Era after Roosevelt and before Reagan.

Its my fault for not being clear.

All this talk about downtown development.  I worked in downtown LA for 5 years, running a business.  I had to roust homeless people from my company dumpster.
Downtown LA like downtown Tulsa is not a tourist mecca.  If Tulsa wants its downtown to become more attractive they have to do something.  Run the homeless off?  Not necessarily.  But collectively the business community must do something to make the positives stronger than the negatives.

I love NYC, and will put up with the panhandlers, because of attactions.   No other reason.

quote:

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Originally posted by Aa5drvr

64 feet from the rear of my vehicle to the entranace of Coney I-Land, measured by measuring tape at 3:45 pm.
Purchased 2 coneys, with cheese, no onions.

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And people from the burbs say there's no convenient parking downtown!!

I work downtown and have been panhandled innumerable times.  Some of them will walk into the shop and ask anybody within eyeshot for money, customers included.  From what I can tell, most of these folks are pros and it gets annoying when they're insistent.

I think the OP is trying to point out that given the choice between getting panhandled and _not_, people will choose the _not_!  It keeps people out of downtown and perpetuates the dual attitude of: "Downtown?!  But that's sooooo far away and it's scummy."

There wouldn't be any panhandlers if people didnt give them any money.

It's bigger than that Artist.  When I was growing up the only homeless downtown were a handful of winos and an occasional hobo passing through town.  It has to do with a societal safety net.  Something our grandparents (your great grandparents) created and something my generation took away.  Now honestly, if I went downtown and saw the same people I see at Woodland Hills Mall I wouldn't have moved back to Tulsa.  I find middle class strivers boring.  I had them figured out by third grade at Hoover Elementary.  Anyway, there are skinny White people sleeping under the overpasses all over the place.  When we reach a tipping point there will be serious changes of some sort.

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Originally posted by sgrizzle

I liked the homeless gy on 71st yesterday with a digital camera..

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run over that ****er.  there is no reason anyone should be homeless on 71st, there are now hiring signs everywhere.

I say let a few of these career bums get waxed, and they will figure out real quick tulsa is not for them.

there is no reason anyone in this town with a will should go without.  the bums downtown are there because they want to be....same goes for 71st.

Yes there would still be homeless people etc. but they wouldn't be panhandling at 71st or Downtown if people wouldn't give them money. As for a safety net or housing, nothing should be free or without strings attached. Even if that "string" is medical/psychological/counseling/educational etc.

The solution seems to be. Have adequate safety nets and help available with some sort of proven success strategy and nobody give the panhandlers anything so these people will not have the option of not availing themselves of that net. Your choices are, go to the program, work, or starve.  If you want to give money give to those programs. Period.

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Originally posted by PonderInc

quote:

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Originally posted by Aa5drvr

64 feet from the rear of my vehicle to the entranace of Coney I-Land, measured by measuring tape at 3:45 pm.
Purchased 2 coneys, with cheese, no onions.

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And people from the burbs say there's no convenient parking downtown!!

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LOL [:P]

quote:

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Originally posted by Aa5drvr

I attended a meeting downtown Tulsa from 10:00 am until appx 3:30 pm,
I didnt eat lunch so I thought in the interest of "old times," I would have lunch at Coney I-Land in the street level of the old Down-Towner hotel, on Cheyenne.  3

2 Cheese, No Onions, to go.............

My scientific observation is this:
64 feet from the rear of my vehicle to the entranace of Coney I-Land, measured by measuring tape at 3:45 pm.
Purchased 2 coneys, with cheese, no onions.

Accosted by 2 homeless persons, one on the way into the establishment, one immediately upon exit.

At no other Coney I-Lander establishment in Tulsa have I had to fend off homeless folk.

Does this say something about Downtown?

Kitty?  Kitty?

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No, it says you were right near Denver Avenue which houses the jail, rehabilitation clinics and homeless shelters.

I'm assuming no one ever has mentioned you as the sharpest tool in the shed.

quote:

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Originally posted by Aa5drvr

Sorry my fault.  I wont go downtown again.  I hope that makes you happy.

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Oh, it does. Actually, don't come north of I-44.

Thanks,
The Management.