In this month's issue of Esquire there's a story by a guy who intended to cover the Belevedere's unearthing. Thanks to an incredible amount of delays and missed connections, he missed the whole thing.
I can't seem to find it online, but this passage about Tulsa is very harsh, but very true.
"Having missed everything ... I decide to find a bar and drink until my situation improves. This turns out to be harder than one might anticipate; taverns don't seem to exist here. I have lived in some of the least exhilarating cities in America, but Tulsa is almost like urban sarcasm. Tulsa makes Akron seem like Las Vegas. It's Friday night, but every downtown street is a reenactment of the opening ten minutes of 28 Days Later. All the avenues have names like Denver and Detroit and Cincinnati, as if those cities were theoretical, unattainable utopias. The townsfolk are incredibly nice, but the emptiness is relentless (and kind of terrifying). I can't fathom what things are like here when they're not having a festival."
I actually had a friend compare downtown to the movie 28 Days Later. Another friend that visited was taken aback by the empty feeling at the airport and downtown.
Yea but downtown and a night life aren't important, as a lot of people on here will tell you. What will get people talking positively about Tulsa is better roads and lower taxes.
Because you know that a higher tax rate (disconnected from any sort of results) will make people think higher of Tulsa. 8.517% is so low, it is embarassing!
Well, yes, most of downtown is void of anything after 5 p.m., but I think the guy was generalizing here WAY too much. No, downtown's not jumping and jiving yet, but go to Brookside on a Friday night, like I did this evening. Absolutely packed. Or go to Cherry Street. Heck, even Blue Dome is in downtown. Taverns exist. Yes, downtown is just now being brought back into life but this city is FAR from dead. Our streets are named for cities in alphabetical order for a reason, not because they're unattainable utopias.
And, P.S., I'd never want to go to Akron.
You can't base your entire opinion about Tulsa based on 10-square blocks. Had the person gone three blocks north of downtown, he would have found plenty to do. Had he gone two-miles south of downtown, he would have found plenty to do.
I've experienced similar things in my travels, but I blame myself for not taking a more proactive approach to finding the night-life.
Too bad he didn't venture down to Red Fork and quaffed a few beers at the It'll Do tavern. A few games of tabletop shuffleboard and Bob Wills tunes from the jukebox would have cheered him up. [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
Because you know that a higher tax rate (disconnected from any sort of results) will make people think higher of Tulsa. 8.517% is so low, it is embarassing!
Yes, since over all we pay the lowest rate of taxes. And you can definitely see the results connected to that. We should lower the sales tax rate and increase the property, and income tax rates. And of course expand our universities and work on our education levels.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2007/snapshots/PL4075000.html
Artist, would a tax increase excluding groceries and clothing make more sense?
"The townsfolk are incredibly nice, but the emptiness is relentless (and kind of terrifying)."
How true. I wonder if he'd have more choices if he was a constant church goer.
TheTed,thanks for the thread. Sad how he missed McNellies and all the holes in the wall.
Urban sarcasm....interesting.
"Love to shake it on shake down street.
Used to be the heart of town.
Don't tell me
this town don't have no heart.
Just gotta poke around."
garcia/hunter
Chuck Klosterman's Esquire story goes on to mention the Tsunami Sushi restaurant as well as Dirty's and 1974 bars. There, he chats with a 19-year-old cook on a break.
"I hate Tulsa, but only because I live here," the cook said. "Still, there are some good things about living here. I love working at Tsunami's, for example. The people that work here are hella cool ["hella cool"?]. And Tulsa has some awesome underground tunnels. Huge, train-sized tunnels. They're amazing."
Klosterman then finds yet another 19-year-old for a perspective on T-Town, a busboy on a cigarette break: "I love it here. In my opinion, it's the world's biggest little city. I know they say that about Reno, but they should say it about Tulsa. This is kind of a hard thing to explain, there is just so much action here - it's just that there's nothing to do."
Okay, now YOU figure it out.
"I hate Tulsa, but only because I live here," the cook said. "Still, there are some good things about living here."
Well, hates a little harsh.
Klosterman then finds yet another 19-year-old for a perspective on T-Town, a busboy on a cigarette break: "I love it here. In my opinion
it's the world's biggest little city. I know they say that about Reno, but they should say it about Tulsa. This is kind of a hard thing to explain, there is just so much action here - it's just that there's nothing to do."
SNAP!!!!!
We're spread thin on plenty to do.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
You can't base your entire opinion about Tulsa based on 10-square blocks. Had the person gone three blocks north of downtown, he would have found plenty to do. Had he gone two-miles south of downtown, he would have found plenty to do.
I've experienced similar things in my travels, but I blame myself for not taking a more proactive approach to finding the night-life.
The point is...HE SHOULDN"T HAVE TO. Quit burying your head in the sand man...no article has been more right on in describing the desolation downtown...yeah yeah yeah, I know...McNellie's, Cain's, the Arena. We have made some strides...but still...It's bad down there and it's embarrassing.
So, I read that article this morning, and about halfway through I was prepared to be pissed off. Then I read the whole thing, and realized that the whole thing wasn't about Tulsa, but about optimism. The things we value in Tulsa; the Art Deco, Cain's Ballroom, the beautiful midtown neighborhoods; were all built during a time in which people, especially in Tulsa, weren't afraid of the future. A time in which they believed that THINGS COULD BE BETTER, and that they would. I am sure that had those leaders that buried that car squinted hard enough, they could have never envisioned a future in which our downtown would be described as an "urban sarcasm". It should scare the living hell out of every civic leader, every businessperson, every church-goer, every oil baron, every aeronautical engineer, every line cook, every ditch digger, every stay at home mom, every Tulsan, that our core has rotted to this level. It must change. Or we will fade into the footnotes of history...the town that oil made, and killed.
BUT, I am here to tell you that it can, and it should get better. I have great optimism for our city. I believe that we can once again be a beacon for hope and opportunity in this country. There are a few people who seem to be scared of the future, and those people happen to make a lot of noise. But I am not willing to stand around and let those people drag me down with them. Taxes never have and never will be our downfall, it is our unwillingness to invest in our future that has been and always will be our downfall. UNTIL we...we who believe that it can be better, that we can DO BETTER...stand up and shout...NO MORE! No more NO'S...No more admiring our past in the mirror, no more complaining about what can be... It's time.
It's Tulsa Time.
^I'd say "ditto" but might come across as a comedian.
Good post.
I guess it's true Tulsa has a bad rep. elsewhere and it's not all that popular. Omaha is offten joked about as being a backward cowtown, yet Omaha is a big viberant city of over 400,000 people and a booming economy. I'd say it's all in the eye of the beholder. Columbus, Ohio just revolves around those stupid OSU Buckeyes and Football.[xx(]
They think it's trashy. (Admiral)
They think it's generic. (South Tulsa)
They think it's polluted. (West Bank)
Drinking game ... take a swig every time sauerkraut mentions Omaha or Columbus.
[xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
Artist, would a tax increase excluding groceries and clothing make more sense?
"The townsfolk are incredibly nice, but the emptiness is relentless (and kind of terrifying)."
How true. I wonder if he'd have more choices if he was a constant church goer.
TheTed,thanks for the thread. Sad how he missed McNellies and all the holes in the wall.
Urban sarcasm....interesting.
"Love to shake it on shake down street.
Used to be the heart of town.
Don't tell me
this town don't have no heart.
Just gotta poke around."
garcia/hunter
I have no idea what mix of taxes would be better. But it does seem that we are not alone in our tax structure. I have run across several articles about Tennessee and some of the cities there who are complaining about the same problems we have. The people have a low tax burden over all, but many of the cities rely on high sales taxes to try and pay for everything and they are having similar infrastructure, educational, etc. problems. On the one hand they could brag about low state, property and income taxes but on the other hand sales taxes were high and the cities, roads, jobs, were suffering. Wish I could have found this one article I read the other day, sounded just like us and our situation.
http://www.yourtax.org/facts/unfair.php3
http://www.yourtax.org/facts/index.php3
http://www.yourtax.org/facts/salestax.php3
http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/2006/10/02/story1.html?jst=s_cn_hl
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/pf/0704/gallery.tax_friendliest/8.html
I think getting rid of taxes on food would be a good thing. The state has been and is cutting other taxes. But we still need to come up with some funds somewhere. Can the city raise property and income taxes? Seems interesting that the state politicians can cut taxes and get applauded but when anything needs fixing or improving its the local politicians that get the blame and the burden of raising taxes. Perhaps we should just eliminate the state government all together (except for a state highway organization) and make all other taxes completely a local matter. What else does the state do for us that we couldnt do right here without the middle man?
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
Artist, would a tax increase excluding groceries and clothing make more sense?
Groceries should be tax exempt.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Too bad he didn't venture down to Red Fork and quaffed a few beers at the It'll Do tavern. A few games of tabletop shuffleboard and Bob Wills tunes from the jukebox would have cheered him up. [:D]
That sounds like my kinda place.
Many, many people outside of the state of Oklahoma don't even know where Tulsa is or anything about it. I grew up in Tulsa and lived there until the early 90's. I live in Baltimore now, and I have met people here (educated, mind you) that think we still ride horses to work and that indians live in teepees. Many of those who express an opinion about Tulsa have never been there and don't know what they are talking about!
quote:
Originally posted by john stevens
Many, many people outside of the state of Oklahoma don't even know where Tulsa is or anything about it. I grew up in Tulsa and lived there until the early 90's. I live in Baltimore now, and I have met people here (educated, mind you) that think we still ride horses to work and that indians live in teepees. Many of those who express an opinion about Tulsa have never been there and don't know what they are talking about!
This is very true, and most people I come in contact with who have spent any time in Tulsa seem to love it.
quote:
Originally posted by john stevens
Many, many people outside of the state of Oklahoma don't even know where Tulsa is or anything about it. I grew up in Tulsa and lived there until the early 90's. I live in Baltimore now, and I have met people here (educated, mind you) that think we still ride horses to work and that indians live in teepees. Many of those who express an opinion about Tulsa have never been there and don't know what they are talking about!
Very true. A friend from NYC came here for law school and was relieved to see that we had paved roads. However, I'd like to point out that such problems really arent Tulsa's fault... it can't educate the entire sheltered country.
and as a side note: many people around the country only know of Tulsa via the University of Tulsa playing a local team, in a bowl game, or going to the NCAA. Or if they have an event here, see the PGA on TV, etc. Those things have a much greater impact than the extra sales tax.
I thought ORU was the heart of town.....televangelism has been our largest international viewing audience for decades now....why do you think the rest of the world knows about what's here?
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
I thought ORU was the heart of town.....televangelism has been our largest international viewing audience for decades now....why do you think the rest of the world knows about what's here?
Actually, from my research, there are a few nationally known evangelists with a Tulsa connection, such as Robert Tilton.
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
I thought ORU was the heart of town.....televangelism has been our largest international viewing audience for decades now....why do you think the rest of the world knows about what's here?
Actually, from my research, there are a few nationally known evangelists with a Tulsa connection, such as Robert Tilton.
Huh? What about Oral and Richard. World famous.
And JC is here! Joyce that is....
The thing is, when people from out of town are coming in looking for something to do... They're going to go to the middle of the city. That's where all the good stuff is supposed to be. They shouldn't have to search for the obscure places that only locals know about.
That beautiful skyline is a gigantic billboard that says "come here!" and creates some big expectations... and when people follow it in, they are disappointed.
Speaking of Esquire, OKC's Mayor also makes an appearance, for being fashionable, which is kind of weird... But whatever.
quote:
Originally posted by OKC_Shane
The thing is, when people from out of town are coming in looking for something to do... They're going to go to the middle of the city. That's where all the good stuff is supposed to be. They shouldn't have to search for the obscure places that only locals know about.
That beautiful skyline is a gigantic billboard that says "come here!" and creates some big expectations... and when people follow it in, they are disappointed.
EXACTLY.
For what it's worth, OKC's Downtown has a lot more going for it than Dallas' does...it's dead at 5:30 too. Fort Worth's DT has more action than DT Dallas...so this happens in lots of places. As evidenced by downtown revivals all over the country, we are nowhere near the point of no return, but it's time to start DOING, not just planning.
When posters want to take the tax off food the political structure turn white and head for a chair to sit down in.
The writer of the article did not ask where the mass transportation entrance was that he could take to the 71st corridor where all the jive places are.
quote:
Originally posted by Kenosha
quote:
Originally posted by OKC_Shane
The thing is, when people from out of town are coming in looking for something to do... They're going to go to the middle of the city. That's where all the good stuff is supposed to be. They shouldn't have to search for the obscure places that only locals know about.
That beautiful skyline is a gigantic billboard that says "come here!" and creates some big expectations... and when people follow it in, they are disappointed.
EXACTLY.
For what it's worth, OKC's Downtown has a lot more going for it than Dallas' does...it's dead at 5:30 too. Fort Worth's DT has more action than DT Dallas...so this happens in lots of places. As evidenced by downtown revivals all over the country, we are nowhere near the point of no return, but it's time to start DOING, not just planning.
Thats true about Dallas. But you know there are things to do there and can easily find them and know it when you run across them. Other than Brookside and Cherry, sometimes the Brady and Blue dome are not so obvious. Not quite enough "critical mass" in those areas yet and many of the things are sparsly spread out. Just hope things hang in there long enough for them to continue to grow.
Uptown in Dallas is pretty obvious to find with all its high rises and when you drive around there, well its starting to become very dense and european with lots of people out and about, shops and sidewalk cafe open at night etc. Its that european 5 and 6 story living above with retail along the bottom that creates a lively urban neighborhood.
Yeah, but just north of downtown Dallas you have Deep Elum and the most skyscrapers this side of Dubai building condos.
Or the "Plaza" area of Kansas City is a good example. Its not a high rise downtown, but full of dense 4 story structures and plenty of life. That would be the area I want to live in (sans dog and child).
Another problem for Tulsa. It takes a while for such things to develop since many people are locked into their suburban lifestyle with dogs, multiple cars, and playgrounds in the yard. Its hard to transition from that to urban living I suppose (would be for me, no matter how much I like the idea).
- - -
Per not taxing food: making exceptions to taxes is a slippery slope. Do we include junk food? What counts as food? Why not tax free for all Oklahoma products, what % counts as an Oklahoma product? Prescriptions? If so, why not aspirin? If so, what about toothpaste and mouthwash? If we are going to do those - sugar free gum? medical Supplies like ankle wraps and braces? Every group will lobby to be tax free, and the most powerful ones will probably win... creating a cluster. Poor small businesses trying to figure that crap out!
Nope. Junk food tax goes to %50....time to slim down.
Another insightful comment.
What counts as junk food? Are french fries junk food but baked potatoes not? What if butter and sour cream is added to them, then do they become junk food? What about high carb items, some consider them junk food some health food.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Another insightful comment.
What counts as junk food? Are french fries junk food but baked potatoes not? What if butter and sour cream is added to them, then do they become junk food? What about high carb items, some consider them junk food some health food.
CF....lighten up.
I have a business associate who is a native of Japan but now lives in Detroit.
When he first visited Tulsa he booked a room downtown. His comment was that he had to get a cab to get from the hotel to some evening activity. And he had to wait on the cab. There wasnt a string of cabs at his hotel to whisk him away as per his experience in other cities.
If you know those who work in Tokyo, they EXPECT "evening activities", ( as he said) tp be at the doorstep.
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
I thought ORU was the heart of town.....televangelism has been our largest international viewing audience for decades now....why do you think the rest of the world knows about what's here?
Actually, from my research, there are a few nationally known evangelists with a Tulsa connection, such as Robert Tilton.
Huh? What about Oral and Richard. World famous.
And JC is here! Joyce that is....
Oh yes, my research turned that up also! Seems the esteemed Mr. Joyce has represented a number of evangelists.