Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: guido911 on October 11, 2007, 12:01:37 pm
An abortion film that will certainly stir the issue up again.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071011133309.vhjahw6y&show_article=1
Someone please defend the practice after reading the article about one particular scene involving the doctor (you will know it when you read it)
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: Townsend on October 11, 2007, 12:32:08 pm
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
An abortion film that will certainly stir the issue up again.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071011133309.vhjahw6y&show_article=1
Someone please defend the practice after reading the article about one particular scene involving the doctor (you will know it when you read it)
So you missed the "but Kaye also doesn't shy from showing pictures of a kneeling and bent-over naked woman who died after performing a botched abortion on herself with a wire coat hanger." "There are conflicting values and taken in isolation each of these values is quite legitimate," he adds. "Choice is legitimate, preserving life is legitimate." If the film arrives at any conclusion it is neatly summed up by Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz when he says: "Everybody is right when it comes to the issue of abortion." The thing about these discussions is that everyone will see or hear what they want to see or hear. it seems, just like you did Guido.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: rwarn17588 on October 11, 2007, 12:35:06 pm
Guido, you're free to be an advocate for anything you want.
But ultimately, I want people making these decisions, not the government.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: cannon_fodder on October 11, 2007, 01:14:04 pm
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Guido, you're free to be an advocate for anything you want.
But ultimately, I want people making these decisions, not the government.
+1 In fact, I strongly encourage people to advocate against abortion as a choice and especially to offer alternatives. Support groups, easy adoption programs, funding for medical care, and so on. So many people want to adopt children in this country.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: guido911 on October 11, 2007, 01:15:58 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
An abortion film that will certainly stir the issue up again.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071011133309.vhjahw6y&show_article=1
Someone please defend the practice after reading the article about one particular scene involving the doctor (you will know it when you read it)
So you missed the "but Kaye also doesn't shy from showing pictures of a kneeling and bent-over naked woman who died after performing a botched abortion on herself with a wire coat hanger."
"There are conflicting values and taken in isolation each of these values is quite legitimate," he adds. "Choice is legitimate, preserving life is legitimate."
If the film arrives at any conclusion it is neatly summed up by Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz when he says: "Everybody is right when it comes to the issue of abortion."
The thing about these discussions is that everyone will see or hear what they want to see or hear. it seems, just like you did Guido.
So, are defending the practice in light of the portion of the article I referenced or are you trying to change the subject so you do not have to address the barbarity?
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: rwarn17588 on October 11, 2007, 01:28:02 pm
It sounds like the film is sending mixed messages. So be it. It's no secret that it's a complicated issue.
As life -- and death -- usually are.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: Townsend on October 11, 2007, 02:12:14 pm
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
An abortion film that will certainly stir the issue up again.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071011133309.vhjahw6y&show_article=1
Someone please defend the practice after reading the article about one particular scene involving the doctor (you will know it when you read it)
So you missed the "but Kaye also doesn't shy from showing pictures of a kneeling and bent-over naked woman who died after performing a botched abortion on herself with a wire coat hanger."
"There are conflicting values and taken in isolation each of these values is quite legitimate," he adds. "Choice is legitimate, preserving life is legitimate."
If the film arrives at any conclusion it is neatly summed up by Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz when he says: "Everybody is right when it comes to the issue of abortion."
The thing about these discussions is that everyone will see or hear what they want to see or hear. it seems, just like you did Guido.
So, are defending the practice in light of the portion of the article I referenced or are you trying to change the subject so you do not have to address the barbarity?
Barbarity? They're not eating the baby. Picture what the woman did to herself before she died. That was a choice too. A horrible choice that would be made by women all over the country after rape, incest, parental hate, societal neglect. If there were options that would be supported by the conservatives, maybe there would be less need for abortion. There is nothing supported. Lots of ways to kill a criminal but no way to help with adoption, child support, condoms in schools. You and I won't agree because there are too many reasons for me to support a woman's right to choose. Don't start the "you're changing the subject" crap.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: guido911 on October 11, 2007, 02:51:36 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
An abortion film that will certainly stir the issue up again.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071011133309.vhjahw6y&show_article=1
Someone please defend the practice after reading the article about one particular scene involving the doctor (you will know it when you read it)
So you missed the "but Kaye also doesn't shy from showing pictures of a kneeling and bent-over naked woman who died after performing a botched abortion on herself with a wire coat hanger."
"There are conflicting values and taken in isolation each of these values is quite legitimate," he adds. "Choice is legitimate, preserving life is legitimate."
If the film arrives at any conclusion it is neatly summed up by Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz when he says: "Everybody is right when it comes to the issue of abortion."
The thing about these discussions is that everyone will see or hear what they want to see or hear. it seems, just like you did Guido.
So, are defending the practice in light of the portion of the article I referenced or are you trying to change the subject so you do not have to address the barbarity?
Barbarity? They're not eating the baby.
At least from now on we know what your definition of "barbarity" is.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: guido911 on October 11, 2007, 02:53:24 pm
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
An abortion film that will certainly stir the issue up again.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071011133309.vhjahw6y&show_article=1
Someone please defend the practice after reading the article about one particular scene involving the doctor (you will know it when you read it)
So you missed the "but Kaye also doesn't shy from showing pictures of a kneeling and bent-over naked woman who died after performing a botched abortion on herself with a wire coat hanger."
"There are conflicting values and taken in isolation each of these values is quite legitimate," he adds. "Choice is legitimate, preserving life is legitimate."
If the film arrives at any conclusion it is neatly summed up by Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz when he says: "Everybody is right when it comes to the issue of abortion."
The thing about these discussions is that everyone will see or hear what they want to see or hear. it seems, just like you did Guido.
So, are defending the practice in light of the portion of the article I referenced or are you trying to change the subject so you do not have to address the barbarity?
Barbarity? They're not eating the baby.
At least from now on we know what your definition of "barbarity" is.
Oh, and that you acknowledge that the unborn is a baby.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: Breadburner on October 11, 2007, 03:01:54 pm
Were you the Officer involved in the accident on 75 south a couple of weeks back....If you are I think another C.A.T scan is in order....
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: Townsend on October 11, 2007, 03:05:41 pm
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
An abortion film that will certainly stir the issue up again.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071011133309.vhjahw6y&show_article=1
Someone please defend the practice after reading the article about one particular scene involving the doctor (you will know it when you read it)
So you missed the "but Kaye also doesn't shy from showing pictures of a kneeling and bent-over naked woman who died after performing a botched abortion on herself with a wire coat hanger."
"There are conflicting values and taken in isolation each of these values is quite legitimate," he adds. "Choice is legitimate, preserving life is legitimate."
If the film arrives at any conclusion it is neatly summed up by Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz when he says: "Everybody is right when it comes to the issue of abortion."
The thing about these discussions is that everyone will see or hear what they want to see or hear. it seems, just like you did Guido.
So, are defending the practice in light of the portion of the article I referenced or are you trying to change the subject so you do not have to address the barbarity?
Barbarity? They're not eating the baby.
At least from now on we know what your definition of "barbarity" is.
Oh, and that you acknowledge that the unborn is a baby.
You're one of those forum posters.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: guido911 on October 11, 2007, 06:01:12 pm
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Guido, you're free to be an advocate for anything you want.
But ultimately, I want people making these decisions, not the government.
RW, You and I have already had this fight if memory serves. The reason I opened this back up again is this movie and the expected visceral response it will garner from all sides. Still, you have to admit that a recognizable image of an unborn (call it what you want) torn apart apparently by its limbs during an abortion and placed on some table literally could change the face of the debate.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: rwarn17588 on October 11, 2007, 06:13:47 pm
Change the debate of what?
That abortion is icky?
People already know that.
That doesn't mean we're are ready to pull the choices away from people and give it to the government.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: guido911 on October 11, 2007, 06:46:05 pm
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Change the debate of what?
That abortion is icky? People already know that.
First of all, "icky?" Describing the mutilation of the unborn (again, whatever you call it) as tantamount to perhaps a child getting in the mud or getting paint on their face speaks volumes to the merits of your position and perhaps how serious you consider the issue. As for people knowing it's icky, prove that. Do you think the general population knows what really happens during an abortion and what the remains of the unborn really look like? I have always thought that is the real reason why choicers oppose efforts requiring sonograms be taken and perhaps shown to the expectant mother before an abortion or the giving of pre-abortion anesthesia to the unborn to help prevent pain. Choicers do not want people to know the facts. [/quote] That doesn't mean we're are ready to pull the choices away from people and give it to the government. [/quote] So if the people in Oklahoma chose to ban abortion by referendum, you would support the law? Although I would prefer that abortion never be legal, I support giving the states the right to make the practice legal or illegal. IMHO, the federal government has no business involving itself in this issue. BTW, government (state or otherwise) persistently takes choices away from people. Choosing to kill my neighbor is unlawful. Choosing to manufacture methamphetamine in my home is unlawful. Choosing to engage in incest or to sexually assault a person is unlawful. Heck, in some states, choosing to smoke in public places is unlawful. So what makes this choice special?
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: Breadburner on October 11, 2007, 07:56:11 pm
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Change the debate of what?
That abortion is icky? People already know that.
First of all, "icky?" Describing the mutilation of the unborn (again, whatever you call it) as tantamount to perhaps a child getting in the mud or getting paint on their face speaks volumes to the merits of your position and perhaps how serious you consider the issue.
As for people knowing it's icky, prove that. Do you think the general population knows what really happens during an abortion and what the remains of the unborn really look like? I have always thought that is the real reason why choicers oppose efforts requiring sonograms be taken and perhaps shown to the expectant mother before an abortion or the giving of pre-abortion anesthesia to the unborn to help prevent pain. Choicers do not want people to know the facts.
That doesn't mean we're are ready to pull the choices away from people and give it to the government. [/quote] So if the people in Oklahoma chose to ban abortion by referendum, you would support the law? Although I would prefer that abortion never be legal, I support giving the states the right to make the practice legal or illegal. IMHO, the federal government has no business involving itself in this issue. BTW, government (state or otherwise) persistently takes choices away from people. Choosing to kill my neighbor is unlawful. Choosing to manufacture methamphetamine in my home is unlawful. Choosing to engage in incest or to sexually assault a person is unlawful. Heck, in some states, choosing to smoke in public places is unlawful. So what makes this choice special? [/quote] Ahhhhh...So your a female officer that works for the Sheriffs Department......
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: rwarn17588 on October 11, 2007, 08:57:30 pm
<guido asked:
Do you think the general population knows what really happens during an abortion and what the remains of the unborn really look like?
<end clip>
Yes.
This is yet another edition of simple answers to stupid questions.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: Double A on October 11, 2007, 10:20:46 pm
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Guido, you're free to be an advocate for anything you want.
But ultimately, I want people making these decisions, not the government.
+1
In fact, I strongly encourage people to advocate against abortion as a choice and especially to offer alternatives. Support groups, easy adoption programs, funding for medical care, and so on. So many people want to adopt children in this country.
Good for you. Do you practice what you preach? Have you adopted any children?
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: guido911 on October 12, 2007, 02:00:26 pm
quote:
Ahhhhh...So your a female officer that works for the Sheriffs Department......
What the hell does that mean? I cannot advocate for the unborn?
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: guido911 on October 12, 2007, 02:01:43 pm
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
<guido asked:
Do you think the general population knows what really happens during an abortion and what the remains of the unborn really look like?
<end clip>
Yes.
This is yet another edition of simple answers to stupid questions.
What a thoughtful and reasoned response. Oh, and way to address the points I raised.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: Breadburner on October 12, 2007, 04:44:30 pm
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Ahhhhh...So your a female officer that works for the Sheriffs Department......
What the hell does that mean? I cannot advocate for the unborn?
Why don't you answer the question.....
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: guido911 on October 13, 2007, 09:31:01 am
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Ahhhhh...So your a female officer that works for the Sheriffs Department......
What the hell does that mean? I cannot advocate for the unborn?
Why don't you answer the question.....
What question? Am I a female officer working in the Sheriff's office or was I the officer involved in an accident. The answer to both is no. Now, answer the points I raised or shut up.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: cannon_fodder on October 15, 2007, 08:23:22 am
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
In fact, I strongly encourage people to advocate against abortion as a choice and especially to offer alternatives. Support groups, easy adoption programs, funding for medical care, and so on. So many people want to adopt children in this country.
Good for you. Do you practice what you preach? Have you adopted any children?
I fail to see how that has any impact on the debate. The demand for adoption is so great that they are certainly not seeking additional consumers. The only logical backing for your response is to assume that abortion is prevalent because there is not a larger market for adoption and therefor I need to be a consumer. That is patently false and contrary to what I said. However, my girlfriend and I did go ahead and decide to raise our child when we were both 19. An alternative would have been far easier given that we were both in school, both worked, are non-religious, and were 19. In that light, yes... I do practice what I preach. And I'm damn happy we decided to put in the effort to raise a family, that's why I encourage other people to do the same. Do you care to take a position in this discussion or just try to call me out on it?
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: guido911 on October 15, 2007, 08:26:56 am
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
In fact, I strongly encourage people to advocate against abortion as a choice and especially to offer alternatives. Support groups, easy adoption programs, funding for medical care, and so on. So many people want to adopt children in this country.
Good for you. Do you practice what you preach? Have you adopted any children?
I fail to see how that has any impact on the debate. The demand for adoption is so great that they are certainly not seeking additional consumers. The only logical backing for your response is to assume that abortion is prevalent because there is not a larger market for adoption and therefor I need to be a consumer. That is patently false and contrary to what I said.
However, my girlfriend and I did go ahead and decide to raise our child when we were both 19. An alternative would have been far easier given that we were both in school, both worked, are non-religious, and were 19. In that light, yes... I do practice what I preach. And I'm damn happy we decided to put in the effort to raise a family, that's why I encourage other people to do the same.
Do you care to take a position in this discussion or just try to call me out on it?
Good response and good for you CF.
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: mr.jaynes on December 26, 2007, 06:32:26 pm
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Ahhhhh...So your a female officer that works for the Sheriffs Department......
What the hell does that mean? I cannot advocate for the unborn?
You're not like one of those creepy prolife types that hangs out around reproductive clinics and goes into histrionics, are you?
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: guido911 on December 29, 2007, 12:24:23 pm
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Ahhhhh...So your a female officer that works for the Sheriffs Department......
What the hell does that mean? I cannot advocate for the unborn?
You're not like one of those creepy prolife types that hangs out around reproductive clinics and goes into histrionics, are you?
Nope. From your question, sounds like you are one of these creepy pro-abortion morons: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2007/12/29/abortion-supporter-knocks-69-yr-old-pro-lifer-unconscious-msm-si
Title: Coming to a Theater Near You...
Post by: mr.jaynes on December 30, 2007, 01:59:44 pm
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Ahhhhh...So your a female officer that works for the Sheriffs Department......
What the hell does that mean? I cannot advocate for the unborn?
You're not like one of those creepy prolife types that hangs out around reproductive clinics and goes into histrionics, are you?
Nope.
From your question, sounds like you are one of these creepy pro-abortion morons:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2007/12/29/abortion-supporter-knocks-69-yr-old-pro-lifer-unconscious-msm-si
Ordinarily, at least until recently, I'd be more in the pro-choice camp, until I saw that I really didn't have a dog in that particular hunt. I'm not a woman, nor am I married, nor am I in the situation in life where these kinds of issues would affect me. There does seem to be many in the choice camp who do not have a stake in this issue. I'm not big on the more extremist ends of the debate. The pro-lifers and choicers have those who'll weigh in on the issue, but will not go to the exteremes that others go to. I've known some moderates on both sides. But there are some elemts on the pro-life side that do give me the willies.
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