The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A18505

He hits the nail on the head and drives it home with a single, clean, crushing, blow. Kudos.

Bates should run against Randi "Brain Candy" Miller. The Commission needs a counter balance to the dead weight of John "SmallIQ" and Fred "Brain Dead" Perry.

Agreed. Miller got way too big for her blouse.

When I read his article today I knew how Bates felt. I do not always agree with MB but will definately here. Good piece.

 Piercy has done quite well financially for many years as the go to guy on bonds. And Michael points to conflicts which are troubling.

This was why I opposed 2025 from the git go.
"I tried to warn everybody but could not get across."

My god...Michael Bates could be an even bigger egomaniac than Chris Medlock.  

I counted the use of the words "me", "my" and "I" 17 times out of 1180 total words.

But it is the last line that really stands out:

 

quote:

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I don't care whether the county commissioners like me or not, but I'd like them to stop using me as an excuse not to do their jobs.

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Who in the hell does this guy think he is?  He writes a blog and for the crappiest "alternative" weekly paper in the country, bar none.  Michael Bates is a citizen with a self perceived bully pulpit.  

I will admit, I may never be able to get over him blowing his top at the River meeting this past fall.  His credibility is permanently tainted in my eyes largely because of that.

Well, the first reason the Commissioners wouldn't like him is that he opposed them on one of the biggest public projects this county has ever seen.

It is interesting that Bates continues to forward this storyline, i.e., that the County is sitting on mountains of money and has enough V2025 surplus to do whatever they want.  He's been harping about huge surpluses since before the V2025 vote.  

It apparently doesn't matter that EVERYBODY at the County is sick to death of telling him the same thing over and over and over.  I've seen and heard this more times than I can count...along the lines of, "the county does not have a surplus, does not expect to have a large surplus, and will not know, one way or another, for a long time whether a surplus exists".  That's what they have been saying, anyway.

Refusing to accept the answers that have been handed to you is one thing.  I say that Michael should doggedly pursue the facts.   So, what has he done?  Has he filed any Freedom of Information Act requests?  Has he sued the county?  Has he done ANYTHING to find out the facts, or is he simply publishing rumors?

I get it.  He's not a journalist.  He doesn't know how to investigate and he's not obliged to learn.  But he's been holding onto this "money-mountain" theory for a long time now, and it ain't going anywhere.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chicken Little

Well, the first reason the Commissioners wouldn't like him is that he opposed them on one of the biggest public projects this county has ever seen.

It is interesting that Bates continues to forward this storyline, i.e., that the County is sitting on mountains of money and has enough V2025 surplus to do whatever they want.  He's been harping about huge surpluses since before the V2025 vote.  

It apparently doesn't matter that EVERYBODY at the County is sick to death of telling him the same thing over and over and over.  I've seen and heard this more times than I can count...along the lines of, "the county does not have a surplus, does not expect to have a large surplus, and will not know, one way or another, for a long time whether a surplus exists".  That's what they have been saying, anyway.

Refusing to accept the answers that have been handed to you is one thing.  I say that Michael should doggedly pursue the facts.   So, what has he done?  Has he filed any Freedom of Information Act requests?  Has he sued the county?  Has he done ANYTHING to find out the facts, or is he simply publishing rumors?

I get it.  He's not a journalist.  He doesn't know how to investigate and he's not obliged to learn.  But he's been holding onto this "money-mountain" theory for a long time now, and it ain't going anywhere.

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Michael Bates asked a simple set of questions of the Tulsa County Fiscal Officer Mr. Smith:

1. How many bank accounts hold sales tax proceeds or bond proceeds from Vision 2025? Where are the accounts held, and how much money is in each account?

2. What is the schedule for repayment for each Vision 2025 bond issue?

3. How much Vision 2025 money has been committed but has yet to be paid out? For each obligation, how much is due and when?

For the Tulsa County Fiscal Officer NOT to readily have at hand the information to answer these very basic public accountability questions is reflective of the unaccountable, patronage dumping ground, good-old-boy County Ring of mediocrity also know as Oklahoma county government.

As to Mr. Bates' courses of action, I think he has:

1)  A full-time job.
2)  Provides a weekly OPINION column to UTW.
3)  Provides a weekly radio OPINION on KFAQ-AM.
4)  Publishes an active Weblog at www.batesline.com
5)  Is actually married and is raising a young family.

As a certified TulsaNow.net Mud-Slinger, can you claim ANY of those five foregoing accomplishments?

I do not think that Bates has EVER claimed to be a "journalist", unlike the majority of the reporters from the AGENDA-DRIVEN Lorton's World claiming journalist credentials to which their palpable bias negates their bogus claim to any professional standing.

They work as Propaganda Kommandos for the local Lorton Oligarchs Daily Werker Proganda Ministry.
 
Bates is one of the few Seekers-after-the-Truth to populate local Public Policy discussion.

TulsaMetroChamberPots TulsanNow Echo Chamber detractors hardly qualify as Seekers-after-the-Truth........

You guys are rough on Michael...

I argue with Michael Bates as much as anyone, especially during election season when he always endorses republicans. But he is usually writing about topics that interest me, especially his recent articles on TIF districts and the local neighborhood preservation efforts.

I agree that this most recent article was not his best work and he falls into the same trap as some others do about including yourself and the way you are treated into the story. This is one of the things that David Arnett always does as well that drives me crazy. It is proof that they are not journalistic pieces, but personal commentary.

I admire Michael for continually writing interesting articles and for convincing the alternative paper to carry his stuff. I am more of an establishment guy, but have to respect those who challenge authority sometimes as well.

Soooo the entire premise for the article is that someownehe heard Fred Perry may have said something about him (Bates)? Weird. Why not call him directly?  Having said that, can anyone with the County answer his simple questions?  (It can be frustrating, remember.) (http://"http://video.google.com/url?docid=-6710362855241318851&esrc=sr1&ev=v&len=28&q=michael%2Bbates%2Bfreaks%2Bout&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-6710362855241318851&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-6710362855241318851%26q%3Dmichael%2Bbates%2Bfreaks%2Bout%26total%3D1%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H22LSmXj3vlE-q6XcWclhpCpEL-vQg")

You might have missed it, but a letter or guest op-ed from Fred Perry appeared in UTW several weeks ago.  He went on the offensive on MB.  I don't think the last line in his column was an ego fix at all.  When I read Perry's column I had the same reaction Bates did.

I don't see anything egomaniacal in the article as Kenosha pointed out.  The use of "me" and "I" is necessary because the man is relating his personal frustration at trying to get a straight answer to a question every single citizen of Tulsa County has a right to know at any given time.

Instead, he encountered elected officials and un-elected bureaucrats who should know the answer without even thinking.  They didn't have a clue what the answer was or feigned ignorance.  He was finally directed to an "un-paid overseer" of county funds who has zero obligation for accountability to taxpayers.  I'm certain John Piercey made a personal mint brokering the V-2025 bonds.  Either he told me or I read in his column that it took at least three weeks to get an answer out of Piercey.

There is absolutely no question that the answer to the question "How much do we have in surplus collections and projections?" has been conveniently mobile to fit the situation.

He and Brian Ervin are the best investigative journalists we have in the area.  He doesn't throw softballs, and he pokes his nose in where other journalists are afraid to.  I don't agree with everything Michael writes and have disagreed with many of his endorsements.  I've met the guy, I talked to him at length during the River Tax campaign and found him to be a concerned citizen who just wants simple answers we all should know.  He has a measure of influence and respect within the city.

That's fine if you want to pass him off as a conspiracy nutjob.  But ask yourself why the County is being so secretive about how much of YOUR tax money they have collected and what it has been committed to?  If they aren't being secretive than the only other answer is they are incredibly deft and obtuse in handling YOUR money.  Neither are acceptible reasons.  As a competent county commissioner, I would demand to have an on-going knowledge of county funds. (No that's not the start of a future campaign pitch [;)])

Lump me in with Friendly Bear if you like, but the Tulsa County commission has a very rich history of being molested by commissioners and a close gaggle of friends who have benefitted greatly from public tax money.

quote:

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Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Soooo the entire premise for the article is that someownehe heard Fred Perry may have said something about him (Bates)? Weird. Why not call him directly?  Having said that, can anyone with the County answer his simple questions?  (It can be frustrating, remember.) (http://"http://video.google.com/url?docid=-6710362855241318851&esrc=sr1&ev=v&len=28&q=michael%2Bbates%2Bfreaks%2Bout&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-6710362855241318851&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-6710362855241318851%26q%3Dmichael%2Bbates%2Bfreaks%2Bout%26total%3D1%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H22LSmXj3vlE-q6XcWclhpCpEL-vQg")

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You left out the part where they pinned him down and he was screaming "Don't taze me bro! Don't taze me! Aaaaaaaaaaaghhhh!"

quote:

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Originally posted by recyclemichael

You guys are rough on Michael...

I argue with Michael Bates as much as anyone, especially during election season when he always endorses republicans. But he is usually writing about topics that interest me, especially his recent articles on TIF districts and the local neighborhood preservation efforts.

I agree that this most recent article was not his best work and he falls into the same trap as some others do about including yourself and the way you are treated into the story. This is one of the things that David Arnett always does as well that drives me crazy. It is proof that they are not journalistic pieces, but personal commentary.

I admire Michael for continually writing interesting articles and for convincing the alternative paper to carry his stuff. I am more of an establishment guy, but have to respect those who challenge authority sometimes as well.

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Michael's weekly UTW Column is clearly labeled Op/Ed.

He writes an Opinion column.  

When he sometimes writes an Investigatory-type of Opinion column, like the ones the Wall Street Journal has been famous for, I do find his Opinion columns supported by a firm foundation of structured analysis.

I think he is one of the brighter bulbs in a generally dismal local political scene, eclipsing Sell-Out Simonson and Sam-the-Sham Roop as a voice of measured public integrity.

Core Question:  Why CANNOT someone of Michael Bates caliber get appointed to one of the multitude of local city or county government Boards, Committees or Authorities?  

How about Michael Bates on the TDA or TMUA?  

Or the Tulsa County Fairgrounds Authority?  

He lives near the Tulsa County Fairgrounds, and has been a keen observer on the scene of their neighborhood association for YEARS.

Answer:  He's too DANGEROUS to the local controlling Oligarch Families and the Tulsa County Good-Old Boys Ring to allow him a seat at the table.

They like things JUST THE WAY THEY ARE.

And things locally will just continue to go from bad to worse.  Their patented solution:

JUST RAISE TAXES.

A solution endorsed by the TulsaMetroChamberPots, promoted by the Lorton's World Echo Chamber News-Editorial/Editorial-News articles, and amply funded by our recycled tax dollars from the Good-Old-Boy Heavy Construction and Road Construction Cartel, plus associated crony attorneys, bond underwriters, engineers and architects.

[:o)]

I agree with Conan, DoubleA and Bates.

Anyone who had kept up with the goings-on would know why that article took on a personal tact.

IAC, he's right, the County should know where our tax money is and all aspects of how it's spent. To date, they've provided no answers in figures or statements. "There is no surplus" is quite insufficient accounting. And, relying upon and unaccountable "upaid over-seer" for economic concerns is dereliction of their elected duty.

If they are unable to produce adequate justification in the near future, it becomes an issue of gross negligence, which is impeachable.

Bates did run for city council and serves as a representative of the oklahoma republican party. he obviously does have some desire and ability to hold positions.

quote:

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Originally posted by Wrinkle

I agree with Conan, DoubleA and Bates.

Anyone who had kept up with the goings-on would know why that article took on a personal tact.

IAC, he's right, the County should know where our tax money is and all aspects of how it's spent. To date, they've provided no answers in figures or statements. "There is no surplus" is quite insufficient accounting. And, relying upon and unaccountable "upaid over-seer" for economic concerns is dereliction of their elected duty.

If they are unable to produce adequate justification in the near future, it becomes an issue of gross negligence, which is impeachable.

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2003 passage of Vision 2025 gave the Tulsa County Ring a brand-new $Billion Piggy Bank for the next 13 years, with the Lion's Share of the new taxes flowing to four prominent local families:

Flint, Rooney, Lorton and Kaiser.

Since Michael Bates CANNOT get answers to three relatively simple, straighforward accounting questions that any company Controller, CFO or even a County Fiscal Officer should readily know, then the next question might appropriately be:

Is someone STEALING the Taxpayers money, and is Mr. Smith being told to look the other way, or else?

All County positions are patronage appointments: Fired at Will.

[}:)]

Bates and I have been into it on this very board before.  More than a few times I have chimed in against his ideas in other threads.  He is ultra conservative, a conspiracy theorist, and has a heightened sense of self worth.

But he does a good job.  

I do a horrible job of keeping our politicians on the straight and narrow.  I have come to believe that there is a small group (who meat once a year at  secret meeting place in Colorado known as, the Meadows) who have their hands in nearly everything that happens in Tulsa.  AND that they cash in on most of it.  

So what do I do?  I sit back and complain and vote in the next insider in a few years.

Kudos on at least being a thorn in the side of the powers that be.  I don't think I agree with the extent of the conspiracy, but I do think any college educated citizen with internet access should be able to find the answers to his questions on the county website (you cant).  Without transparency, we need Michael Bates to keep the heat on.

quote:

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Originally posted by Conan71

Quote

You left out the part where they pinned him down and he was screaming "Don't taze me bro! Don't taze me! Aaaaaaaaaaaghhhh!"

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Taze Remix (http://"http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a42_1190923434"), also kewl (http://"http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34d_1190505612").

This is just one area of county government that is out sourced with a lack of accountability to sworn officers. Bates should do a follow up on the  relationship between PMG and the County. I think the time for a grand jury investigation into Tulsa County Government is long overdue. The scandal with Bell's and ORU alone ought to be enough to warrant it. At this point, it might be the only way to get an honest, straight, answer from our County government. If they have not lied and have nothing to hide, they should welcome it.

quote:

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Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Bates and I have been into it on this very board before.  More than a few times I have chimed in against his ideas in other threads.  He is ultra conservative, a conspiracy theorist, and has a heightened sense of self worth.

But he does a good job.  

I do a horrible job of keeping our politicians on the straight and narrow.  I have come to believe that there is a small group (who meat once a year at  secret meeting place in Colorado known as, the Meadows) who have their hands in nearly everything that happens in Tulsa.  AND that they cash in on most of it.  

So what do I do?  I sit back and complain and vote in the next insider in a few years.

Kudos on at least being a thorn in the side of the powers that be.  I don't think I agree with the extent of the conspiracy, but I do think any college educated citizen with internet access should be able to find the answers to his questions on the county website (you cant).  Without transparency, we need Michael Bates to keep the heat on.

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Please, expand on the annual meeting in the Meadows of our local ruling Cabal...

quote:

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Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:

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Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Bates and I have been into it on this very board before.  More than a few times I have chimed in against his ideas in other threads.  He is ultra conservative, a conspiracy theorist, and has a heightened sense of self worth.

But he does a good job.  

I do a horrible job of keeping our politicians on the straight and narrow.  I have come to believe that there is a small group (who meat once a year at  secret meeting place in Colorado known as, the Meadows) who have their hands in nearly everything that happens in Tulsa.  AND that they cash in on most of it.  

So what do I do?  I sit back and complain and vote in the next insider in a few years.

Kudos on at least being a thorn in the side of the powers that be.  I don't think I agree with the extent of the conspiracy, but I do think any college educated citizen with internet access should be able to find the answers to his questions on the county website (you cant).  Without transparency, we need Michael Bates to keep the heat on.

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Please, expand on the annual meeting in the Meadows of our local ruling Cabal...

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You want to know if you can hide out on the grassy knoll, don't you? [;)]

CF- call me a fan.  Your last sentence was spot-on.  Aside from Bates and Ervin, who else follows government closely in the print media?  P.J. Lasek?  She's a soft-baller if there ever was one.

Is it true that they projected the tax collections to be flat over 13 years?  If so, how could there NOT be a surplus?

If money dissapears, where does it go?  Has the arena secretly gone past the $200 million mark with no public announcement of such?

Perhaps there is extra money, but it is not technically a "surplus" until the end of the game.  Right now, it is merely "contigency" since there could always be a downturn in tax collections if we have a bad recession in the next 8 or 9 years?  It seems like we've been paying this tax forever, but we are less than 1/3rd of the way into its' collection period.  If this reason (uncertain future of tax collections) is the reason they won't call the surplus a surplus, they should just come out bluntly and state it.  If, in the year 2013 we appear to be at a point where we can either end the tax or have $200 million in surplus funds, maybe we could have a vote about it then.

I don't know about "flat" but I do recall Counselor Dick saying they were "conservative" on collection estimates prior to the vote on V-2025.

I'm starting to become as disappointed with Fred Perry as I am with Randi Miller.  One almost feels as if Wilbert Collins and Bob Dick are still running the commission.  It's pretty much business-as-usual.

quote:

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Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:

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Originally posted by Chicken Little

Well, the first reason the Commissioners wouldn't like him is that he opposed them on one of the biggest public projects this county has ever seen.

It is interesting that Bates continues to forward this storyline, i.e., that the County is sitting on mountains of money and has enough V2025 surplus to do whatever they want.  He's been harping about huge surpluses since before the V2025 vote.  

It apparently doesn't matter that EVERYBODY at the County is sick to death of telling him the same thing over and over and over.  I've seen and heard this more times than I can count...along the lines of, "the county does not have a surplus, does not expect to have a large surplus, and will not know, one way or another, for a long time whether a surplus exists".  That's what they have been saying, anyway.

Refusing to accept the answers that have been handed to you is one thing.  I say that Michael should doggedly pursue the facts.   So, what has he done?  Has he filed any Freedom of Information Act requests?  Has he sued the county?  Has he done ANYTHING to find out the facts, or is he simply publishing rumors?

I get it.  He's not a journalist.  He doesn't know how to investigate and he's not obliged to learn.  But he's been holding onto this "money-mountain" theory for a long time now, and it ain't going anywhere.

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Michael Bates asked a simple set of questions of the Tulsa County Fiscal Officer Mr. Smith:

1. How many bank accounts hold sales tax proceeds or bond proceeds from Vision 2025? Where are the accounts held, and how much money is in each account?

2. What is the schedule for repayment for each Vision 2025 bond issue?

3. How much Vision 2025 money has been committed but has yet to be paid out? For each obligation, how much is due and when?

For the Tulsa County Fiscal Officer NOT to readily have at hand the information to answer these very basic public accountability questions is reflective of the unaccountable, patronage dumping ground, good-old-boy County Ring of mediocrity also know as Oklahoma county government.

As to Mr. Bates' courses of action, I think he has:

1)  A full-time job.
2)  Provides a weekly OPINION column to UTW.
3)  Provides a weekly radio OPINION on KFAQ-AM.
4)  Publishes an active Weblog at www.batesline.com
5)  Is actually married and is raising a young family.

As a certified TulsaNow.net Mud-Slinger, can you claim ANY of those five foregoing accomplishments?

I do not think that Bates has EVER claimed to be a "journalist", unlike the majority of the reporters from the AGENDA-DRIVEN Lorton's World claiming journalist credentials to which their palpable bias negates their bogus claim to any professional standing.

They work as Propaganda Kommandos for the local Lorton Oligarchs Daily Werker Proganda Ministry.
 
Bates is one of the few Seekers-after-the-Truth to populate local Public Policy discussion.

TulsaMetroChamberPots TulsanNow Echo Chamber detractors hardly qualify as Seekers-after-the-Truth........

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1.  I have a full-time job.
2.  I provide DAILY opinions on TulsaNow.Net
3.  I give DAILY opinions to my wife and co-workers.
4.  Sorry, don't have a blog.
5.  I'm married with a family.

Michael Bates - let's get into business together!

Bates has also been known to give advice to Politicians........



(http://www.i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/Scotty.jpg)[}:)]

quote:

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Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Please, expand on the annual meeting in the Meadows of our local ruling Cabal...

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Well, it's a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers [and Tulsa], and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows. [They include] The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"

/sry if you missed the reference and thought I was mad.

quote:

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Originally posted by cannon_fodder

quote:

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Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Please, expand on the annual meeting in the Meadows of our local ruling Cabal...

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Well, it's a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers [and Tulsa], and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows. [They include] The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"

/sry if you missed the reference and thought I was mad.

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Oh, I think the local ruling Oligarchy's henchmen just meet periodically at Southern Hills Country Club, in one of the many meeting rooms, to plan their pocket-fleecing strategies on behalf of their benefactors.

A working lunch, so to speak.

quote:

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Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Oh, I think the local ruling Oligarchy's henchmen just meet periodically at Southern Hills Country Club,...

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No. We meet at the Coney Islander near TU.

quote:

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Originally posted by cannon_fodder




/sry if you missed the reference and thought I was mad.

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I missed the reference, so did FB.  But his spit-take reaction was TN classic.  Gotta love a conspiracy theory, right FB?

You see, I don't doubt for a minute that the County is broken.  You can read the World and figure that one out:  responsible people forwarding boob pics (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071130_1_A7_spanc76243"); the Fairgrounds Authority "chasing away" the flea market (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071127_1_A15_hThem15656"); the Bell's (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=061129_Ne_A1_Bells19748") parking lot; the "harm" created between the County and city by the  fairgrounds annexation (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070508_1_A5_hCoun31224"); Miller talking out of both (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070314_1_A1_hShes32887") sides of her mouth when she tells Taylor to get "lean and mean" while jacking her own budget 17% in one year (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070612_1_A11_spanc33013").  Sheesh, they are running a budget about 1/10th the size of the city's, and in so doing managing to make the city look pretty competent by way of comparison.  They've also managed to anger just about everybody in the County.  If you think that the River tax was serious, wait until the flea market thing heats up.

The deal with the surplus has already been made clear many times.  If projections hold up there will  be one (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=050617_Ne_A1_Visio").  So, what?  If the surplus comes it'll be years and years from now.  And, with the price of construction outpacing inflation, it'd be tragically stupid to start spending this money on a scaled-down River Project, as Michael has suggested.

Michael seems to want to continue to advance this notion that we can get a River project now using Vision 2025 money.  That's fiscally irresponsible.  To Kenosha's point, it's also vain.  Sure, he cooked up the idea. Sure, he made a promise.  But, maybe he should just consider it for what it was, a red herring tossed in there to confuse a few people who might have otherwise voted yes.  There are worse things than broken promises...actually delivering on a bad idea comes to mind.

And, even if the rumors he printed about secret meetings with Inhofe are true, it doesn't make the idea a good one.  Is the County just as willing as Michael to throw caution to the wind?  Maybe.

quote:

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Originally posted by recyclemichael

quote:

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Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Oh, I think the local ruling Oligarchy's henchmen just meet periodically at Southern Hills Country Club,...

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No. We meet at the Coney Islander near TU.

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Clever camouflage.

Actually CL, it is a fact there have been private meetings on the "plan B" river project.  Bates can take credit for being the first one to publish the idea that the river could be done now with surplus, but he's hardly the one who "cooked up that idea".  The county is, in fact, looking at ways to move forward utilizing V-2025 funds.

There hasn't been a good nor straight answer out of the county on surpluses or the lack thereof.  There's been a total lack of specificity, just like the lack of specificity in what we were going to get with their $283mm slush fund.  Telling a reporter or op/ed guy or whatever you want to call him "there is no surplus" is not a legit answer.  I don't blame him for digging further to find out exactly how they arrive at that conclusion, and I'm thankful he has.

Why aren't you pissed off that our county commissioners don't know the honest answer or either won't give an honest answer on the funding picture?  That's YOUR money they are shepherding.

Bates, as a citizen, just like you and I has a right to call upon an elected official and ask for simple figures.  He's also got a right to let the rest of the taxpayers know that he's been stone-walled.

quote:

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Originally posted by Conan71

Actually CL, it is a fact there have been private meetings on the "plan B" river project.  Bates can take credit for being the first one to publish the idea that the river could be done now with surplus, but he's hardly the one who "cooked up that idea".  The county is, in fact, looking at ways to move forward utilizing V-2025 funds.

There hasn't been a good nor straight answer out of the county on surpluses or the lack thereof.  There's been a total lack of specificity, just like the lack of specificity in what we were going to get with their $283mm slush fund.  Telling a reporter or op/ed guy or whatever you want to call him "there is no surplus" is not a legit answer.  I don't blame him for digging further to find out exactly how they arrive at that conclusion, and I'm thankful he has.

Why aren't you pissed off that our county commissioners don't know the honest answer or either won't give an honest answer on the funding picture?  That's YOUR money they are shepherding.

Bates, as a citizen, just like you and I has a right to call upon an elected official and ask for simple figures.  He's also got a right to let the rest of the taxpayers know that he's been stone-walled.

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I have no doubt that Inhofe is looking for a way to leverage his $50 mill., and so, I'm sure that people are kicking around all kinds of "Plan B's", for many reasons.  But, don't be a revisionist.  The idea of using the surplus (prematurely) came from the "Vote No" people, and the County people said basically what I'm saying now, that it's dumb stuff to spend money on new projects before we have completed what we promised.  Watch the exchanges between Eagleton and Pearcy on the video debate on this very home page.

As for the surplus itself, go read the Tulsa World or watch the video.  The story has been pretty darn consistent.  There is a projected budget surplus; that's not the same as money in the bank, wouldn't you agree?  Regardless of cash flow, it's not actually a surplus until the projects we voted on in Vision 2025 are built, right?  They ain't built.  So, saying "there is no surplus" may not be the answer you (or Michael) want to hear, but it may be accurate nonetheless.

Sure, specificity is something we should demand from government.  So, why doesn't Bates (or Urban Tulsa, if he's too busy) send the County an FOI request?  Better question, why is Bates resorting to vague rumors to prove his point?

quote:

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Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:

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Originally posted by Conan71

Actually CL, it is a fact there have been private meetings on the "plan B" river project.  Bates can take credit for being the first one to publish the idea that the river could be done now with surplus, but he's hardly the one who "cooked up that idea".  The county is, in fact, looking at ways to move forward utilizing V-2025 funds.

There hasn't been a good nor straight answer out of the county on surpluses or the lack thereof.  There's been a total lack of specificity, just like the lack of specificity in what we were going to get with their $283mm slush fund.  Telling a reporter or op/ed guy or whatever you want to call him "there is no surplus" is not a legit answer.  I don't blame him for digging further to find out exactly how they arrive at that conclusion, and I'm thankful he has.

Why aren't you pissed off that our county commissioners don't know the honest answer or either won't give an honest answer on the funding picture?  That's YOUR money they are shepherding.

Bates, as a citizen, just like you and I has a right to call upon an elected official and ask for simple figures.  He's also got a right to let the rest of the taxpayers know that he's been stone-walled.

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I have no doubt that Inhofe is looking for a way to leverage his $50 mill., and so, I'm sure that people are kicking around all kinds of "Plan B's", for many reasons.  But, don't be a revisionist.  The idea of using the surplus (prematurely) came from the "Vote No" people, and the County people said basically what I'm saying now, that it's dumb stuff to spend money on new projects before we have completed what we promised.  Watch the exchanges between Eagleton and Pearcy on the video debate on this very home page.

As for the surplus itself, go read the Tulsa World or watch the video.  The story has been pretty darn consistent.  There is a projected budget surplus; that's not the same as money in the bank, wouldn't you agree?  Regardless of cash flow, it's not actually a surplus until the projects we voted on in Vision 2025 are built, right?  They ain't built.  So, saying "there is no surplus" may not be the answer you (or Michael) want to hear, but it may be accurate nonetheless.

Sure, specificity is something we should demand from government.  So, why doesn't Bates (or Urban Tulsa, if he's too busy) send the County an FOI request?  Better question, why is Bates resorting to vague rumors to prove his point?

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And, a great deal of the real surplus was and is now devoted to a project that was promised to be completely funded by 2025, the arena. Blame LaFortune for choosing a design that could not be built for the alloted budget if you want, but then the same people talking about using only the potential surplus for the river are the ones that wanted the man responsible for the current lack of a surplus to reelected.

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Originally posted by David Arnett

There once was a public policy priate named Bates
Who tried to disco issues on skates
He fell on his cutless
And now he is nutless
And pretty much worthless in debates.

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I'd love to see Arnett and Bates run against each other for public office. Arnett's concession speech would be priceless.

Pretty classless claptrap from someone making a living off taxpayer money, don't you think?

Apparently Bates can't be too bad on presenting an issue or "worthless in a debate" as the man said.  In case no one noticed, Arnett's side lost on the river vote.

Batesline had 3x more traffic last month than Arnutt . . . (http://"http://siteanalytics.compete.com/batesline.com+tulsatoday.com/?metric=uv")

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Originally posted by Conan71

Pretty classless

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I tend to agree.

You'd think someone who tries to represent freedom of speech in one of its' most pure forms would be a bit more sensitive to those who use it in a genuine attempt to help make things better.

Turns out he is failing at both, and exhibits it to everyone. That one, however, should cost him the public portion of his salary.

I see the post in question was removed.  I'll lay 100:1 odds it wasn't a moderator who removed it either.  DoubleA, don't you dare edit or remove your last post. [}:)]

Honestly, I do like David in person, but some of the crap that spews forth from his keyboard is well, just that.

quote:

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Originally posted by Conan71

I see the post in question was removed.  I'll lay 100:1 odds it wasn't a moderator who removed it either.  DoubleA, don't you dare edit or remove your last post. [}:)]

Honestly, I do like David in person, but some of the crap that spews forth from his keyboard is well, just that.

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I understand David removed it himself.

Did David send me the stats from Tulsa Connect, too?

What is wrong with that guy?  Vision, were you hard up when you hired him or did he have pics or what?

Pot kettle thing, I know, but still . . .

HE'S GONE (http://"http://www.tulsatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1394&Itemid=2")

Arent Arnett and 'Vision 2025' one in the same?

What a freak.  He touched up his eye color.

Oh. And Batesline gets more traffic than the Toady.

Originally posted by David Arnett

There once was a public policy priate named Bates
Who tried to disco issues on skates
He fell on his cutless
And now he is nutless
And pretty much worthless in debates.

<end clip>

Might as well keep this one going. [}:)]

The timing of the announcement that he's leaving the public-information job and the fact he sent an immature message on a public forum the day before seems awfully curious.

Sorta like Richard Roberts ... did he leave, or was he pushed?

quote:

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Originally posted by rwarn17588

Originally posted by David Arnett

There once was a public policy priate named Bates
Who tried to disco issues on skates
He fell on his cutless
And now he is nutless
And pretty much worthless in debates.

<end clip>

Might as well keep this one going. [}:)]

The timing of the announcement that he's leaving the public-information job and the fact he sent an immature message on a public forum the day before seems awfully curious.

Sorta like Richard Roberts ... did he leave, or was he pushed?

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I would tend to think it has more to do with now being superfluous to the role of PMG.

He worked to get the Vision 2025 sales tax passed 4 years ago.  Most are those V-2025 projects are completed, or like the downtown Arena, are nearing their completion.  

However, the Tulsa County taxpayers will still be paying for them long afterward, for the next NINE years, until 2017.

He then strongly supported and campaigned for the OurRiverTax sales tax campaign, which eventually the voters turned DOWN last October.

Therefore, his near-term usefulness to the MetroChamberPots and local ruling Oligarchy Familias may temporarily be at a hiatus.  

We may as a result see an increase in his productivity over at www.tulsatoday.com.

Let's wish him well, and hope that he and Michael Bates at www.batesline.com can shake hands and mend their differences.

quote:

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Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:

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Originally posted by rwarn17588

Originally posted by David Arnett

There once was a public policy priate named Bates
Who tried to disco issues on skates
He fell on his cutless
And now he is nutless
And pretty much worthless in debates.

<end clip>

Might as well keep this one going. [}:)]

The timing of the announcement that he's leaving the public-information job and the fact he sent an immature message on a public forum the day before seems awfully curious.

Sorta like Richard Roberts ... did he leave, or was he pushed?

---

I would tend to think it has more to do with now being superfluous to the role of PMG.

He worked to get the Vision 2025 sales tax passed 4 years ago.  Most are those V-2025 projects are completed, or like the downtown Arena, are nearing their completion.  

However, the Tulsa County taxpayers will still be paying for them long afterward, for the next NINE years, until 2017.

He then strongly supported and campaigned for the OurRiverTax sales tax campaign, which eventually the voters turned DOWN last October.

Therefore, his near-term usefulness uselessness to the MetroChamberPots and local ruling Oligarchy Familias may temporarily be at a hiatus.  

We may as a result see an increase in his productivity over at www.tulsatoday.com.

Let's wish him well, and hope that he and Michael Bates at www.batesline.com can shake hands and mend their differences.

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There, fixed your post.  You can bet he will keep on being irrelevant and bombastic from the bully pulpit.

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Originally posted by tim huntzinger

He touched up his eye color.

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Noticed that; I thought it was pretty cool.  But if you are going to go to all of that trouble, you should do like, laser beams and p-shop in some librul's running around with their hair on fire.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:

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Originally posted by tim huntzinger

He touched up his eye color.

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Noticed that; I thought it was pretty cool.  

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I thought it was very freaky.  It reminded me of those dogs that have one blue eye.  It was not a very good photo to do that with.

Bates better maybe, but not honest

http://www.tulsatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1398&Itemid=2

quote:

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Originally posted by David Arnett

Bates better maybe, but not honest

http://www.tulsatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1398&Itemid=2

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OMG, its the battle to see who can be the biggest turd.  

Would someone please cut the electricity to the Wright building?

Say, Arnutt, does that code of ethics apply to stealing a quip from Will Rogers, you poopy head?

Somewhere in a deep, dank corner of that code of ethics there's got to be something about not disparaging fellow journalists, no matter how much of a D-bag you think they are.

Bates has one of the most read regular op-ed columns in the Tulsa area and he gets a lot of hits on his blog.  I guess that breeds some professional jealousy.

and professional jealousy breeds a great feud for the rest of us!

quote:

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Originally posted by cannon_fodder

and professional jealousy breeds a great feud for the rest of us!

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yeah, but it reminds me of watching a race at the special olympics.

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Originally posted by inteller
...yeah, but it reminds me of watching a race at the special olympics.

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That is how I feel about listening to country music.

I dispute the notion that either are journalists.  Essayists, yes, columnists, yes, bloggers, sure, but not journalists.  They are political busybodies who are fighting for the loyalties of that putrid pile of elephant poop known as the GOP.  That is the source of the conflict, not journalistic integrity.