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Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: cannon_fodder on January 04, 2008, 09:02:16 am For those of you who failed to see it yesterday, here is Obama's Iowa victory speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNZaq-YKCnE No matter what you think of his politics, his ideas, or anything else; it is undeniable that this is by far the best public speech given in this country in recent memory. He managed to play to the crowd as well as a greater audience. He pandered to the democratic base, independents, republicans, and African Americans - without overtly alienating the others. An amazing speech delivered nearly perfectly. He came off both presidential and as a "regular guy" while hitting key issues and introducing several themes. For sure, worth your 14 minutes over lunch. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: tim huntzinger on January 04, 2008, 09:19:35 am Just reiterating my comments on another thread, but he is clearly affecting a cadence and drawl of someone from much further south. And that BS looking all serious and down his nose waiting for the crowd to crack him up - enough already! No doubt he is an accomplished speaker but his Utopian crap just does not do it for me. No matter, if he is the Dem candidate he still gets my vote, as will Hill or Edwards or Richardson. Anything to repudiate the GOP.
Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: cannon_fodder on January 04, 2008, 09:40:08 am He is from Illinois... that is not South in the slightest. I really did not catch a Southern inflection to his voice last night (or watching the YouTube). He does have a slight trail at the end before he pauses, which is more characteristic of a black speaker than a Southern (think MLK or a stereo typical preacher man - but not to such a degree). And of course, if fake Southern accents upset you then Hillary must REALLY make you mad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaDQ1vIuvZI (sounding like a cast member from Gone With the Wind) [;)].
What's more, well placed pauses are essential to good speaking. Especially political speeches. If you'll note that when he wants to keep momentum building he speaks OVER the crowd instead of pausing. Brilliant speaking. I've had a ton of communication/public speaking classes and some experience, so perhaps I was just paying more attention to his style and form... and he did very well. What's more, Huckabee was down to Earth and poised - but certainly did nothing to break the mold (except having Chuck Norris in the background - though he failed to roundhouse kick a single person). Edwards was... well, Edwards. After 2 or 3 minutes I turned back to the football game. Hillary was mediocre in delivering a canned speech, she lacks the personality of her husband and usually fails to come across as genuine (too rehearsed sounding maybe, perhaps it was the forced smile the entire time?). Basically, all of the other candidates failed to keep my attention for their entire speech, after a couple minutes it was like pulling teeth - as too many political speeches are. And reiterating what I posted in the other thread, his speech is not a Utopian diatribe. But in the end it doesn't really matter as it appears you vote for a party over any one person or any ideas. Depending on who the Republican nominee is, I could actually vote for Obama (in spite of his socialism, eww). Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: tim huntzinger on January 04, 2008, 09:48:55 am To each his own. BUT IT MUST BE MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY! SUBMIT! SUBMIT!
He is a good orator, no doubt, it just seems too affected, IMHO. That is all. He changed from Barack the Upstart with Potential to Obama the Conquerer. Just standing there a couple of times looking down his nose all grim, unsmiling, imperious, that is just wierd. Then he waits for the crowd to 'force' him to smile. Creepy. Good crowd manipulation. Works with the kids and ladies, apparently. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: cannon_fodder on January 04, 2008, 09:55:56 am I have to agree with that, probably was very good crowd manipulation. Though, to me, the non-smiling moments came across as an honest attempt to keep a straight face. Smiling the entire time is just awkward (Hillary) and might seem pompous since he just won. Clearly neither of us really know, just seemed to be genuine to me - which might be the point.
Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: inteller on January 04, 2008, 10:03:04 am The best orators won Iowa on both sides.....but they both speak with forked tounges.
Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: tim huntzinger on January 04, 2008, 10:06:21 am He just overplayed the looking visionary thing, and in my hypercritical thinking it looked more standoffish than he may have wanted it too. You are right, smiling too much looks psychotic, and while Hillary is a disciplined soundbite deliverer, her speeches are torture.
Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: inteller on January 04, 2008, 10:19:17 am quote: when I saw BHO and MH faces on MSNBC last night I was like "OMG, it is the faces of evil!" Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: we vs us on January 04, 2008, 11:21:36 am Obama's cadences aren't so much "Southern" as they are "Gospel."
A lot of Gospel patterns lend themselves to good speechifying; the same musicality behind it has been the driving force of classical rhetoric since the Ancient Greeks. It's the intersection of poetry, music, and oral tradition. Those are all the pauses, the crescendos and decrescendos, even the well placed smiling. I have a feeling, Tim, the smiling you thought was so fake on TV was totally electric live and in person. He's good on TV but I bet Obama's live show is fantastic. I think Gospel's why Bill Clinton was so effective, btw, and also why Huckabee has some of the same patterns. Clinton doesn't speak Southern, he speaks Gospel. Most white folks could never pick up the difference, but African Americans by and large sure could. Hence he gets referred to as America's first black president. It's because he spoke Gospel. Huckabee's speaking Southern, but his version, because it's from the southern church, also has echoes of Gospel to it. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: FOTD on January 04, 2008, 11:59:39 am quote: Define evil.....seems you think shrub isn't evil. "Choosing between the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil" Garcia BO is not evil. To some, irritating. A great speach by the only person who can stop Billary. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: cannon_fodder on January 04, 2008, 12:09:26 pm BO (unfortunate initials) seems genuine to me. I do not like his politics as he is clearly liberal, but what do you have to go on that he is two-faced? We KNOW Hildog will take money from her brother to get a pardon from her husband, release false information on political rivals, steel items from the federal government (documents, whitehouse items), move to a state she has few connections to for a Senate seat, change her story for her audience, take campaign contributions from illegal sources (and return them when caught), make money from dubious arrangements (and have her husband pardon whoever covers for her/them), and even start speaking Southern Drawl while at a southern church. Really, if you are worried about a two-faced power hungry candidate getting into the 1600 address then your concerns are misplaced.
Obama MAY BE a liar and a crook, but Hillary has a long track record of anything-for-power. Feel free to start a Hillary topic if you want, I'm really more interested in the quality of Obama's speaking in this thread. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: inteller on January 04, 2008, 12:16:45 pm quote: no Bush is definitely evil. these two would just be a continuation of that. We need either Ron Paul to run as independent or get another 3rd party candidate. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: FOTD on January 04, 2008, 12:48:34 pm Just curious. You wouldn't know the tagger going around town (31st and Peoria and 21st and Utica) spray painting Ron Paul everywhere would you? Probably not. It could be some nut with white supremist genes....
But if you prefer that crowd to Oprah, you're way out of the mainstream of America. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: cannon_fodder on January 04, 2008, 12:57:14 pm I guess I take issue with your definition of evil. Either you use the word loosely or your world view is so very different I should abstain from conversation. Hitler... was evil. If Bush is evil, what do you call Hitler?
Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: inteller on January 04, 2008, 01:09:07 pm quote: hitler is chaotic evil....bush is just miscreant. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: FOTD on January 04, 2008, 01:10:34 pm quote: How about, they're both facsists? Hitler's issues were more extreme sociopathic than Shrub's psychological issues. Comparing the two however is just plain nonsense. Some Fascinating Insight Into the Obama Caucus Voters: "One-fifth of the Democratic caucus participants were independents, according to a media survey taken as voters entered precincts Thursday night -- and of them, 41% backed Obama and just 17% opted for Clinton. Moreover, 57% of caucus-goers said it was their first time taking part, and first-time caucus-goers made up two-thirds of Obama's supporters." America seems to understand what's going on in our vacuous leadership predicament and is showing their willingness to take a chance to avoid evil and mean divisive leadership. http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-demassess4jan04,1,1546,full.story?coll=la-politics-campaign&ctrack=2&cset=true http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/the-women-vote/ Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: rwarn17588 on January 04, 2008, 02:16:07 pm I'm from Illinois, and when I first heard him talk years ago, he struck me as a sort of firm, straight-talking Midwesterner. That's one reason why he did so well in gaining the vote in lily-white downstate.
And downstate Illinois definitely has a Southern thing going. Kentucky and Indiana are the next states over, with a lot of influence from both. It pays to remember that he was essentially raised by his Kansas-born mother and grandfather. So the Midwest twang comes honestly. The fact he's eloquent is just a bonus. He's probably the best speech-maker since Reagan. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: tim huntzinger on January 04, 2008, 03:00:24 pm That makes sense, RW. I know he was trying to project 'Presidential' and 'gravitus' (sp) but in that grave, 1000 mile stare I saw 'Loonybin.' But, after watching CSpan during the final days they ALL were pretty much nuts, though.
Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: inteller on January 04, 2008, 05:05:50 pm it is funny, Barak reminds me of the sheriff from Blazing Saddles....I'm sure it seemed that way when he rolled into certain Iowa towns.
"where are all da white women at?" Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: waterboy on January 05, 2008, 10:34:02 am By this time i have begun to tune out the words and frame them mentally as cartoon images. I like BO but can't get over the strong resemblance to Curious George. Maybe its the ears!
Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: TulsaFan-inTexas on January 09, 2008, 09:33:43 am quote: I agree. I am a Republican and have been my adult life. This guy is the first Democrat that I've seen since I've been of voting age that I actually like and might just vote for. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: we vs us on January 09, 2008, 09:49:56 am quote: What is it about Obama, then, that crosses the aisle so well? You're not the first Republican who's said that and I'm curious as to why. Is it only in comparison with Hillary? Is it because he's trying to be inclusive rather than partisan? Or do you like his policy proposals? Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: TulsaFan-inTexas on January 09, 2008, 10:10:23 am To me it all boils down to sincerity and integrity. I certainly don't agree with all of what BO subscribes to, but I don't see him as two-faced. EVERY other politician out there (including Republicans with the exception of Ron Paul IMO) are just career corrupt politicians. The many times I have seen BO speak he sometimes says things that could hurt him, but he is HONEST about them. I prefer honesty and integrity over pandering any day. I can't stand Hillary; the woman gives me the impression that she DESERVES to be President and is somehow pre-ordained to be so. It has nothing to do with her being a woman. Also, I'm a little tired of seeing either a Bush or Clinton in office. This is getting old.
Also, yes, it is because he seems to be more inclusive than partisan. I see him as someone who would be comfortable talking with either side of the aisle. In short, he seems to be a statesman. I could really go for an Obama/Edwards or Edwards/Obama ticket. Thus far, that is how I am going to vote this year. I hope those two are the Democrat choice for Prez/Vice Prez. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: mr.jaynes on January 09, 2008, 10:17:41 am quote: The thing I get from Barack Obama is that he's very idealistic-or so it seems from his speeches. That does not mean I would or would not vote for him. Idealism can only take one so far until reality tends to gauge its practicality. Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: we vs us on January 09, 2008, 10:51:58 am quote: Wow, seriously? And you're a lifelong Republican? I can see the Obama thing, but adding Edwards into the mix tips you seriously to the left. Not that there's anything wrong with that [;)] Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: cannon_fodder on January 09, 2008, 11:44:58 am quote: +1. If the Republican ticket was Huckabee and the Democratic ticket was Obama... I'd probably vote democratic if no third party was available to waste my vote on. Just because he is either a fantastic liar - or because he really is sincere. Even though I do not like his policies too much (most republicans policies are not much better at this point, with only Thompson actually talking about Social Security. Paul has some facets to him I like, but the Gold Standard and his isolationism are enough to make him a non-issue in the real world). Title: Obama: Best orator in a long, long time Post by: TulsaFan-inTexas on January 09, 2008, 11:58:29 am quote: I realize that it does. I do like Edwards stance on the stupid health insurance laws. Health insurance, IMO, and it's monopoly on things is one of the reasons our healthcare system is a mess. I know, some of my fellow Republicans will call me a goon or an idiot but our healthcare system is in serious need of reform. I realize that I am be taking a hard left but I voted for George Bush in 2000 and quite simply the Republicans have left me with a very, very, VERY sour taste in my mouth. It's time to try something different. If you are an Obama supporter, tell him to keep it up (being himself) and he'll get many Republican votes. I'm not the only one that feels this way. That shtick that I've gotten from most of the other candidates has gotten old with me. Besides, I'd like to have a President that can actually formulate an intelligent sentence instead of saying "Nukular," "It takes hard work," and "The Internets." |